Union Prez: Teachers 'Don't Have it in Them' to Shoot Columbine-like Killers

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If your child's school were invaded by Columbine-style killers, methodically murdering students in cold blood, would you want teachers to shoot to stop them?  Gayle Fallon wouldn't.  For that matter, Fallon doesn't think teachers "have it in them" to even try to save their students' lives. Fallon, the president of a teachers union in Houston, TX, made her views known during an Early Show segment this morning conducted by Harry Smith.

The topic was a decision adopted by a rural north Texas school district to permit teachers to carry guns in the classroom.  Harrold, TX School Superintendent David Thweatt explained that the decision was prompted by the school's close proximity to an interstate and its remoteness—thirty minutes away from law enforcement—factors presumably making it a tempting target.  Thweatt made clear that all guns have to be approved by the school board and teachers have to undergo extensive safety and related training.  None of that mattered to Fallon.

HARRY SMITH: Gayle, when you first heard about this, what was your reaction?

GAYLE FALLON: Initially I thought it was a joke.  However, after a couple of media calls, we realized it wasn't and we were asked whether our district would consider it, and it was absolutely no way would we consider it. One of the things that hit me is, you know, Columbine and the other incidents were generally initiated by students. Now, I've been around teachers a long time.  They don't have it in them to aim at a student and kill him. They'll freeze.  Nor would I want them to.

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When a young person takes up arms and starts murdering people, he ceases being a "student" and becomes a killer.  For a teachers union prez, Fallon certainly has a low opinion of her colleagues, to think they'd be incapable of acting to save innocent life.  As for her notion that mass school murders "were generally initiated by students": so what?  If Fallon is right and teachers would freeze in such situations, no harm done beyond that resulting from inaction. But what of cases like that of the Amish school shooting of 2006 in which an armed man murdered five girls aged 6-13?  Not to mention the possibility of terrorist incidents, such as the Beslan massacre, in which 334 hostages were ultimately killed.

Smith conducted the segment in reasonably balanced fashion, even suggesting that the rule might have a deterrent effect.  But at one point he stated "when looking at this, and I want to be as serious as possible."  The inference is that Smith's instinctive reaction, one that he worked to overcome, was to treat the district's decision like Fallon did: as a joke.

Update: MRC News Analyst Kyle Drennen provided a full transcript of the segment:

7:01AM TEASER:

HARRY SMITH: Plus, a controversial decision by a Texas school district. It has decided to allow teachers to carry guns into the classroom. Will this prevent violence? We'll have a debate, coming up.

7:13AM TEASER:

JULIE CHEN: Also, teachers carrying guns into the classroom. Will it prevent the next Columbine or Virginia Tech. The superintendent in Texas thinks so. We'll talk to him.

7:30AM TEASER:

SMITH: Still ahead this morning, a school district in Texas is the first in the nation to let teachers carry guns. We're going to have a debate with the school superintendent and the president of the Houston Federation of Teachers.

7:33AM SEGMENT:

HARRY SMITH: A rural Texas school district has made a decision that appears to be the first of its kind in the country. Teachers are now permitted to carry guns. Harrold, Texas is located near the border with Oklahoma. Joining us is the District Superintendent, David Thweatt, and Gayle Fallon, President of Houston Federation of Teachers is also with us this morning. Good morning to you both.

[GRAPHIC ON SCREEN: School Safety Gone Too Far? Texas District Allows Teachers to Carry Guns In School.]

GAYLE FALLON: Good morning.

DAVID THWEATT: Good morning, Harry.

SMITH: Mr. Thweatt, let me start with you. What made you decide to try and get this passed through your school board and why did you think this was a good idea?

DAVID THWEATT: Well Harry, we're looking at all the issues surrounding school violence, anything, starting with Columbine all the way up to the Pennsylvania shootings. And we started looking at state-of-the-art security, which we installed. And then we found that that was not good enough because we had a problem with being next to a 287 road north of us. And we're right 500 miles -- 500 feet off of that particular road. And then on top of that, we're about 30 minutes from law enforcement. And we started asking hard questions. What's going to happen when we get an active shooter into our school? And that's the reason we decided to go in this direction.

SMITH: Let me ask you this, are the weapons of the teachers, are they concealed, are they holstered? How -- how are they carried in the school?

THWEATT: Yeah, there are several components of this. They are concealed. They do have to be approved by our school board. And then they have to undergo extensive safety training and other training in hostage situations, et cetera, before we've installed this.

SMITH: Okay. Alright, Gayle, when you heard about this, what was your reaction?

FALLON: Initially, I thought it was a joke. However, after a couple of media calls we realized that it wasn't and we were asked would our district consider it. And it was absolutely no way would we consider it. One of the things that hit me is, you know, Columbine and the other incidents were generally initiated by students. Now, I've been around teachers a long time. They don't have it in them to aim at a student and kill them. They'll freeze.

SMITH: And-

FALLON: And nor would I want them to.

SMITH: Right. Mr. Thweatt, I guess when looking at this, and I want to be as serious as possible, what kinds of scenario are you imagining that your teachers might be called into actually using these arms, or do you just think perhaps folks knowing that they have arms in the school may be a preventive measure in and of itself?

THWEATT: I think it would, Harry. And because any time we've looked at these school shootings they've occurred after we've designated schools across the nation as gun-free zones. The people who are going into these situations are evil. I'm not going to be politically correct on this. I don't care what their problems were. They've gone in and killed children. And if they come into our school, they are going to meet resistance. And I think if we did have some resistance in our schools, these crackpots or whoever they are would stop going into them.

SMITH: Alright, Miss. Fallon, real quickly. Just, if someone -- if you woke up tomorrow and found out that Houston were going to allow teachers to carry guns in the schools, what would you do?

FALLON: We would elect a new school board immediately. I think what's going to happen, there is a loophole in the law that's allowed this. But our legislature meets in January. And the legislators I've talked with said they're going to plugging that loophole.

SMITH: Alright, we got to go for now. David Theatt, Gayle Fallon, thanks very much for your time this morning. Do appreciate it.

THWEATT: Thanks, Harry.

SMITH: You bet.

—Mark Finkelstein is a NewsBusters contributing editor and host of Right Angle. Contact him at mark@gunhill.net.


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Teachers

Teachers are more prolific at molesting children than Catholic priests, so I don't think they are "above" anything.

Is that the best we can do?

Is that the best we can do?

Is that the best we can do?

I don't know; if you give me more to work with than the old union schtick . . . maybe.

Nice theme we've got going

Nice theme we've got going here over the last few days.

Harry: "I (don't) got your back, bro"

I'd rather have Miley Cyrus backing me in a bar fight than Harry.

If we were talking about, say, New Jersey, her "they'd freeze" comment might have some merit. But rural North Texas? I'm not buying it.

Plus, it would have to be negotiated into the union contract.

 

People wonder what it would be like if gun were banned.

Remind me how many school shootings there were when HS kids and teachers had shotguns and rifles in the back windows of their pickups. They used to teach skeet shooting in Ag class around here, and yes the school owned the guns. 

 

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

She ain't no Texan

We've got losers like her all over Austin. I think they're the cause of all those 200 year old oak trees dying of blight.

Full disclosure, I've got a bleedin' heart liberal sister just like her. She's married to true blue ambulance chaser. She BMW's (B$tch, Moan Whine) because her daughter has to pay back a student loan. Life must be tough on $250k/year.

Back to the topic. I don't think Gov. Rick Perry will stand in the way of this initiative.

I ♣ my seal

thanks for the

thanks for the laugh.....

My sister is a bleedin' heart liberal ambulance chaser. Ditto for her husband. And they had the gall to tell me that the democrats are for personal responsibility!

Fascism is a religious conception in which man is seen in his imminent relationship with a superior law and with an objective will that transcends the particular individual - Mussolini

haha

haha

Rural Texas Teachers

I could understand the attitude of the union president if she were from San Francisco, but Texas teachers (particularly those raised in rural Texas) most likely grew up with guns in the household and know how and when to use them.

If she's not from San

If she's not from San Francisco, her mentality is.  The way most teachers are educated these days - i.e. P.C. - outcome based, "no worng answers" - "it's prom, here's your condom", discipline is passe'- etc., most of them probably wouldn't have a clue.

Typical

Fallon and Smith are just your typical bed wetting liberals. They believe criminals are to be excused as products of an evil, violent society. And as a result of this evil and violence, self protection only promotes that evil.  And therefore, teachers, being as non evil as possible, can't participate in the evil of shooting someone.   The critical flaw is that they assume everyone should behave and believe as they do. The libs can't accept that individuals can and do think differently. And some of them are nutbars that have the ability to harm others and want to harm to others. Liberals think criminals should be understood and helped to overcome their violent nature.  I agree! I would gladly help someone shooting children overcome their violent nature by taking a long cold dirt nap.

I was having a few beers

I was having a few beers with a rep one day and at the hotel were some people from the Michigan Teacher's Union, or more commonly known as the MEA, and we were talking in the line at the bar about the election, 2004, and how we support Bush, and a little weaselly looking guy got into it with us and I just matter-of-factly talked to him about lower taxes, etc. He was having none of it and I could see he was a true lefty by the attitude he was giving me after I trounced on any argument he could put up. He went away after a bit, we got our drinks and went outside.

The next time I was in line, an older matronly looking woman, also obviously a teacher, who was sitting with this guy, came over to us in line and told me that I needed a punch in the head because of what I was saying to the nice little lefty teacher gentleman.

These are our teachers, the people who form education policy.

Ben

She was probably upset because she had him all lined up for some horizontal matriculation. She was afraid you had troubled him too deeply and he might not be able to serve her purposes.

Teachers convention out of town? Do the math.

I ♣ my seal

She wanted to punch me in

She wanted to punch me in the head because I didn't believe the  leftist nonsense that her and her comrades pile drived into my head year after year and that I was going to vote for GWBush.

There are many more like those two.

Bwaaa

I hope she at least gave him her hankie.

Her emotions control her brain

She is obviously so afraid of guns that she is emotionally incapable of using logical thought.

They don't have it in them to aim at a student and kill him. They'll freeze. Nor would I want them to.

She is saying that her constituents are incapable of making a split second decision in an emergency and that she would prefer inaction that allows innocents to be killed than action that kills the perpitrator. These are the teachers that she would prefer to have in the classroom? Teachers that are incapable of acting in an emergency? Teachers that are timid or afraid to act? I wouldn't want those types of people responsible for teaching my children.

I bet the teachers in the Harold, Texas school disctrict are not like that at all. I bet they are full of brave and responsible teachers who would do almost anything to protect their students in the event of an emergency.

Are Houston teachers that different? I bet they are not. I think they might want to re-concider who they elect to 'represent' them as president of their union.

 

The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic. Let's get it back! Alan Keyes '08.

Any teacher responsible

Any teacher responsible enough and serious enough to make the very serious decision to have a gun in school....well I would trust that person to be serious enough and courageous enough to use it responsibly in a Columbine-type emergency.

Ms. Fallon is implying that one has to have a "killer instinct" in order to act bravely and take a life to save many lives. Her statement that "nor would I want them to" is just outright irresponsible. She would rather see a student kill 20 or 30 people than have a teacher stop him?

Not just irresponsible; it's outrageous.

Fallon's instinct and

Fallon's instinct and recommendation for her union members would obviously be to dive under your desk and stay very still.

The average convenience store clerk has more courage than her. 

the difference

Covenience store clerks take pride in their stores and know how much a robbery will hurt their employer. They are paid to guard the register so they plan on doing just that.

This woman is basically saying that either teachers aren't brave enough to protect our children or they don't care enough to intervene. If I was a teacher I'd be ticked off that this woman is chosen to represent me.

candance, I have to say

candance, I wouldn't risk my life as a clerk of a convenience store. I don't see the cash register as worthy of that risk.

I would, however, do it to protect the kids in my care. For this woman to say that she "wouldn't want" teachers to do that is just shameful.

 

How much you wanta bet she

How much you wanta bet she is pro abortion?

This goes to how she values life.

Courage of Clerks

Speaking of the courage of convenience store clerks, check out these NB stories:

Armed Citizen Causes Robbers to Flee in Ohio 

Armed Citizen: 'You Are Not Robbing This Bank!' 

"The future is not set.  There is no fate but what we make for ourselves."

michaelyon-online.com

The 'convenience store clerk

The 'convenience store clerk fights back' clips are always my favorites on Cops.

20 or 30?  Try the entire

20 or 30?  Try the entire school.  I bet the response time is around 20 minutes after the initial shooting (it would take a little time for the school to realize what was going on, call the cops, explain, and the cops to get there.)  I can easily fire 200 rounds in that time, 5 minutes a class, 4 classrooms with 25 students each (shoot the teacher first), that is 100.  Then the cops get there, assess the situation, and decide if they want to go in (they do not have to, you know, if they feel it is too dangerous they can just wait till it is over, they and their jobs are protected by law in those instances, they never have to protect you) so, now I have another 10 minutes, that is 50 more people.

People do not realize how easy it is to do.

My children attended a school that left all of their doors unlocked up until 2006 when the lady's ex from across the street threated to kill her kindergartener (I can still walk through the front door and all of the school without being asked a question, just sign in and get your name tag).  I asked why the doors were locked and a teacher told me (she was not supposed to tell me and was later admonished).  My kid's class was next door to that kindergartener and they were not going to tell me to let me decide if it was safe for my son!!!!  I asked to see their policy on violent threats to the school.  They were so proud of it, it was a great policy (rolling eyes).  They turn off the lights in the classrooms, lock the glass doors, and all the kids are supposed to sit as quiet as possible so the invader does not know they are there.  They also lock all of the exterior doors. 

The kids finished the 2 weeks of school and they never went there again.  The stupid school is afraid of me and my gun, either my gun is haunted and just goes off at will, or I am a lunatic to fear.  They are so out of touch.  It always takes a mass murder to get them to look at policy and even then they never see that having  voluntarily armed personel is the solution.  They watch too many movies and know nothing about guns and the holsters that people wear on their bodies so grubby fingers can not take the pistol.  I have a CQC holster with a belt, I would have to be dead and out of ammo before they would get my pistol.

Amazing!

amber:  "I asked to see their policy on violent threats to the school.  They were so proud of it, it was a great policy (rolling eyes).  They turn off the lights in the classrooms, lock the glass doors, and all the kids are supposed to sit as quiet as possible so the invader does not know they are there.  They also lock all of the exterior doors."

Absolutely clueless.  This is what a group of terrorists would be counting on- unarmed teachers and absolutely no resistance, no response from law enforcement until they had time to establish their position, and, the idiocy of all idiocies, after they are already inside, some do-gooder teacher will

"also lock all of the exterior doors"!!!

 

"The future is not set.  There is no fate but what we make for ourselves."

michaelyon-online.com

Wait, are we talking about

Wait, are we talking about terrorists or crazed gunmen?

if self defense is impossible

Is there any relevant difference between the 2??
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

I was just responding to

I was just responding to this:

This is what a group of terrorists would be counting on

I don't think a crazed gunmen is counting on anything, other than killing people and themselves winding up dead.

And THAT, bal, is the entire point!

I don't think a crazed gunmen is counting on anything, other than killing people and themselves winding up dead

They wind up dead, faster.  Ergo sum, less time to slaughter the innocent.  I don't care if its a terrorist (I'd call the VT killer a terrorist) or some loony as in Amber's example.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

I would say a crazed gunman

I would say a crazed gunman out to kill as many 5 year olds as they can is out to terrorize the children and the surrounding community.  We are talking terrorist, not necessarily muslim terrorists, but not excluding either, remember they were gathering information on elementary schools in the US for a terror attack.

Duh!

Does it really make a difference, Bal?  Remember the detailed accounts of the Columbine and Va. Tech scenarios?  Either way, you lock all the doors, the kids can't get out and the gunman has a shooting gallery. 

 

"The future is not set.  There is no fate but what we make for ourselves."

michaelyon-online.com

Tell that to Barry Grunow

"Nor would I want them to."

Tell that to Barry Grunow, the teacher who was shot in the face after he confronted an armed student even though Mr. Grunow was, himself, unarmed. That's the hallmark of courage and sacrifice and these are the standards that all teachers should follow. Hiding behind a lock classroom door is NOT the answer, as this discourages NOTHING other than self-reliance and a willingness to sacrifice yourself for your fellow man.

Gunnin' for the kids

I understand exactly where the old bit, girl is coming from. This old Marine couldn't possibly draw down on someone's little darling student. I would have to let sweet Sue live. On the other hand , if I was facing a crazy Larry with an AK and the boy is covered with splatter from my students the fact that Larry was also a student would not prevent me from doing what needs to be done. Fallon thinks a teacher is going to pull his gun out and aim it an everyday, normal student that was reading a book, happened to notice she had a gun, and tried to show her teacher what she found in her pantaloons. The lady seems to have absolutely no idea what actually happens in these situations, which is why she should just keep her trap shut and Harry Smith should interview someone who has experienced it.

A thought...

The woman from Houston is the poster child for why this nation is on the verge of electing Obombo. These people do not live in reality, they must trick themselves into believing the drivel that comes out of their mouths. Take the VT shootings, if even one armed citizen had been in the first classroom he attacked, we might have been talking about one or two dead instead of 30 something. Instead, they want to focus on the armed citizen shooting up the joint or an accidental discharge of the gun that kills an innocent bystander.

Can't we find an island somewhere to dump these moron's?

MSM = PR firm for the Democrat Party

teachers freezing?

Um that's what the training is for - to give you the confidence and the accuracy to know what you're doing.

Yet in typical fashion, she wants to ban it outright for everyone on no more ground than "it's hard."

If I had a child in that school disctrict, I'd hunt down the teachers who knew how to use guns and ask for my child to be in their classes.

 

I think there's a

I think there's a difference between training and actually trying to shoot another person. You can't train for that moment, IMO.

On the other hand, I had many teachers in high school that I thought were perfectly capable of shooting students, without any particular reason. :-)

Training for traumatic situations DOES work

"You can't train for that moment, IMO."

Yes, you can, as both the police and the military train for that moment all the time. Even though there's no guarantee that someone will not panic when training scenarios becomes reality, the chances of someone acting according to training during a traumatic situation is directly related to the quality and amount of the training that person receives. This is a well known and well understood phenomena and it extends to more than just "pulling the trigger." It also extend into emergency response actions (like entering a burning building to save a victim) and other similar traumatic situations. If this were not true, then that training would not be used, as it would be a waste of time and effort, correct?

there are some excellent

there are some excellent classes.  I took one and at the end they gave us paint ball guns (mine was the exact same as my pistol) and placed us in some scary situations.  It worked, people's blood pressure went up.  It was scary.  And I shot the poor SWAT guy (a trainer) from 10 feet away about 5 times on the and side (he was turned with his side to me and I was sooting center mass).

Training Works

I've never been in the military, but have read plenty of military history, novels (i.e. W.E.B. Griffin, etc.), and historical novels and one of the constant themes is some poor sad sack guy finds himself in a battleground situation and finds himself reacting to the situation without thinking. The overarching theme is "my training just kicked in" and they are often surprised at how well it worked.  The people who have written these countless books, for the most part, had lived these experiences they are writing about, or had a similar experience that they could use as a reference.  It also works for police, medical workers, firemen, etc.

Training works!

 

"The future is not set.  There is no fate but what we make for ourselves."

michaelyon-online.com

I was in the military and

I was in the military and the training does help.  I think being prepared is the other half of the coin.  Too many teachers and school districts refuse to even think about something terrible like that happenning.  My pistol training was the best, though because it placed you in the situations you would experience as a civilian.....waiting for a bus, being in a store durring an armed robbery, car breaks down.... It also reinforced in us that we actually could and would shoot to defend ourselves.

Training and Response

Your comments made me think of a series of articles I read outlining the threat to our schools from terrorists.  They know our children are a true weak spot with us.  I can't find those articles, but I thought they were on Black Five, so I went there and found the following:  Israeli Professor Killed in US Attack :

As Jews worldwide honored on Monday the memory of those who were murdered in the Holocaust, a 76-year-old survivor sacrificed his life to save his students in Monday's shooting at Virginia Tech College that left 33 dead and over two dozen wounded.

Professor Liviu Librescu, 76, threw himself in front of the shooter when the man attempted to enter his classroom. The Israeli mechanics and engineering lecturer was shot to death, "but all the students lived - because of him," Virginia Tech student Asael Arad - also an Israeli - told Army Radio.

I found that embedded inside an article by Greyhawk titled Five Seconds.  Well worth reading in light of the discussion of training, what the Houston teacher might do in an emergency, etc.

 

"The future is not set.  There is no fate but what we make for ourselves."

michaelyon-online.com

Thanks for the memories

Your anecdote reminds me of what happen to me when I received Stinger missile training in Germany. I did great until the last "fast mover" appeared and I inadvertently shot down a friendly! When the instructor asked me why I shot a friendly, I responded, "He was a collaborator!" That excuse didn't work and I didn’t get an expert rating, which is what I wanted. As a matter of fact, my instructor told me: “Do our pilots a favor and sick to fixing helicopters, OK?”

Follow your training and not your ambitions

BTW, this is a perfect example of what can happen when someone ignores his or her training. The reason I shot a friendly was because I was concentrating on my score and not on properly identifying the target. Had I actually concentrated on identifying that target as I was trained, I would have realized it WAS a friendly and I would not have shot. This would have given me that Expert rating I was coveting. That's not what I did though. I shot as soon as I saw the target in spite of my training, all because I wanted to win top honors. That taught me a very valuable lesson about following your training and not your ambitions.

I shot my drill Sergeant

I shot my drill Sergeant (laser tag) because he did not know the password.  He came running at me and he was yell, don't you shoot me (in sert last name)!  I shot him anyways. 

He threw a CS grenade in front of me on he last day of the FTX, maybe that's why. 

LOL Good for you!

LOL Good for you!

That kicks off yet another memory from my army days. This happened during the second week at my first duty station, Finthen Army Air Field in Germany. I got volunteered for guard duty and I was guarding the back gate to the base. I was told that, under no circumstance, is anyone allowed onto the base without a valid Military ID card. This order came from our base commander, as we were told. "This come straight from the Colonel! I don't care if God himself shows up demanding entry," said the Sergeant of the Guard, "No ID, no entry! Got it?" Yes Sir!

Well, as I was letting a truck out through the back gate, some guy I didn't recognized ran past me out the gate wearing a running suit and yelling "I'll be back in few minutes!" I closed and locked the the gate as usual. After 15 minutes or so, that man came back to the locked gate and said "I'm back, open up!"

Following my special orders, I asked him for his ID. Man, did he get pissed! He started ranting and raving and jumping around while waving his arms all over the place. He yelled at me "Let me in, Damn you! Don’t you know who I am?" I answered "No sir, not without your ID, I don’t!" That just made him even madder!

After I suggest that he run around to the main gate so that THEY could let him in, and after he yelled even more things I didn't quite catch, I called the Sergeant of the Guard and ask HIM to let this guy in as he was really annoying me!

Well, it turned out that this man was, you guessed it, our BASE COMMANDER! He started asking me what my unit was, who my company commander was, all that crap. That’s when I turned to him and said "Sir, are you the same base commander who ordered all the guards to refuse entry to anyone without a valid ID card?" Man, his face turn a shade of purple that I have never seen before (or since!) and I thought he was going to have a heart attack right then and there. I also thought he was going to have me shot on the spot! You have to remember, I was a true newbie as I had only been on base for two weeks. Needless to say, I was scared! But I also knew that I was right!

Well, he talked to the Sergeant of the Guard for a few minutes and settled down. Soon after, he actual admitted that I did the right thing and he even shook my hand! But I could see the anger still burning in his eyes.

That wasn't the end of it though and I know he held a grudge because I didn't receive a promotion to E4 (Spc/4 in my MOS) until the VERY DAY I was shipping out to CONUS, almost 18 months after this incident occurred! This was after I had received TWO Army Achievement medals in the previous 18 months and I received TWO promotions prior to being assigned to my first duty station, first a promotion to E2 as an outstanding graduate of Basic, and then a promotion to E3 as I was top of my class in AIT. I think I deserved a promotion to E4 long before this, don’t you?

Do you think he held up my promotion out of a grudge? I do!

I was supposed to shoot the

I was supposed to shoot the guy.  The class was given by SWAT guys fom our biggest city and the guy was playing the robber and he shot someone.  I feel for him, though.  He was not wearing protective gear on his arms.  I bet those were some welts. 

Incidentally, all of the officers who were teaching the class started the classes because they like armed citizens.  They said it is the political types in departments who do not.

Yes, you can, as both the

Yes, you can, as both the police and the military train for that moment all the time.

Well sure they train for that all the time because that's their job. Teachers aren't going to be training for that moment all the time.

Sigh

Bal, do you really think that a teacher who is going to go through the process of registering his name and all his vital stats with law enforcement, then takes a good training course, follows up with re-certification, etc., then stands in front of a class of kids, is not going to react to his training responsibly?  C'mon Bal, turn off the lib knee jerk reflex.   

 

"The future is not set.  There is no fate but what we make for ourselves."

michaelyon-online.com

bal is a bit

bal is a bit skeptical

just needs more of that conservative "can-do" spirit:) 

Journalism is the opium of the liberals

nofate, it's not a "lib

nofate, it's not a "lib knee jerk reflex." People react in a number of ways to adverse situations. I don't know that the training would be ingrained enough for all teachers to react well. For some, sure, they'd be fine.

BUT, what is the reaction when a teacher misses, or hits the wrong person? When a teacher reacts to a perceived threat that turns out to be nothing? When a student gets a hold of a teacher's gun?

Just some troubling questions.

That is what the training

That is what the training is for.  I cound not see a situation where a teacher acted hastily and shot someone, but heck, I actually cary a pistol, as aopposed to the hysterical anti gun people who think guns are haunted.  You never even pull the pistol unless you feel threatened.  In a one on one, if you have time you tell the person to back away while having your hand on y holstered pistol.  If you do not have time, you draw your pistol and aim it and verbally warn them.  If they do not back down you shoot, both eyes open, center mass and walk the shots up the body until the threat is past.  They are not telling people to cary.  People who cary or choose to are comfortable with their pistol, they do not shoot with hunched shoulders and eyes closed, cringing. 

If it works, fine. But the

If it works, fine. But the first time an incident occurs...look out.

Well, "works" is likely to look like

Relatively fewer dead victim(s) plus a dead perp, at the hands of a private individual who knows he/she may well be subject to a legal & psychological nightmare. Then the question becomes, "how will the news media cover it?" The answer, at least if it's justified, seems to be "not much, especially nationally," yet somehow the NRA is always only barely able to fit all the self defense stories from around the nation in "The Armed Citizen."
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

I'm sorry bal

But we have to do something. School shootings have become all too common since Columbine and the government has done exactly zero to protect our kids.

You wanna talk about the first time an incident occurs? Let's talk about the next child who calls his mom on his cellphone saying there's a shooter on his campus and the teacher has everyone hiding in a closet because no one can stop it and the cops are 20 minutes away.

If a teacher feels comfortable and qualified to carry a gun, why not give them the option? Yes there's always a risk of mistakes - but that risk is there for police, hunters, everyone. You seem to be saying that teachers are incapable of being as responsible as everyone else.

You want to ban it for everyone - not because of an actual problem - but because of some teachers being queasy and the assumption that someone will make a mistake.

Here's you an extra straw since you're obviously reaching for some.

Blonde and amber are right. You're coming off with a knee jerk "no way" no matter how much evidence we have.

I'm voicing concern. I don't

I'm voicing concern. I don't like school shootings any more than you, but I don't know that more guns is the solution. I will concede that it might be, but I have reservations.  

Balboa, more guns in the right hands

One things that libs never understand is that guns are not sentient beings. They do not decide to shoot people without a human being involved.  They are a tool.  I have carried a gun for more than 20 years and it has never been pointed at anything other than a target in that time.

Guns in the right hands is the answer. I live in Texas and concealed carry permits are very common here. In fact, my 66 year old mother just got hers and she can shoot the lights out. I would stake my life that she will not go out and go on a shooting rampage. But should she see one, she now will have a fighting chance to end it and save innocent lives.

Jeff Lebowski

www.angrywhitedude.c...

I'm well aware that guns can

I'm well aware that guns can be handled well. I'd rather see an actual qualified security force, not teachers, handling these kinds of things. Metal detectors. Responsible parent gun owners. Illegal gun sellers punished severely.

Mr Boa - 10 school

Mr Boa - 10 school shootings in 200 years certainly demands immediate action. You're acceptance of unarmed teachers around children is entirely inappropriate.

Probabilities be darned, bad decision making is king.

Reminds me of my favorite news story in the past 10 years. After 9/11 everyone starts driving instead of flying despite the fact that your chances of being killed on the road are EXPONENTIALLY higher than your chances of dying on an airplane.

Making decisions based on emotion is definitely a good way to go. Perfectly rational.

Gingerman

I don't see a problem with bal questioning the wisdom of guns in school.

I don't think every teacher is qualified, but I don't think every teacher is unqualified either.

I'll bet money the town of Harold has a specific person in mind in this measure.

Here in Texas, we are proud of our right to carry. If it weren't for the fact my town is big enough to have a full-time police officer at each campus (pop.100,000), I'd be in favor of it here.

I ♣ my seal

Arrow - I'm fine with

Arrow - I'm fine with people carrying guns. I just don't see any need to drastically alter policy for events that rarely happen.

It's truly a perfect example of terrible decision making. There is no need to bring ANY guns into schools.

I'm sure some teachers are qualified to carry guns but that's irrelevant in my mind. Adding guns to school is not a wise decision. Every year children hurt each other with their parents guns and now we want to bring guns into an environment with a high proportion of children for the sole purpose of defending against an event that has a miniscule possibility of ever occuring?

Increase the risk to fight a non-existent risk? That makes no sense.

Gingerman

How many sea containers enter American ports every day?

Would you say from the number of terrorist attacks perpetrated from sea containers (0) it's not really necessary to inspect them?

Because according to your logic, the chance of an accidental shooting at an American port is statistically, infinitely greater than a terrorist attack issuing from it.

I ♣ my seal

Cool - not a good example.

Cool - not a good example. Sea containers have a much higher probability of containg drugs or weapons than a student shooting up a school.

Smugglers routinely utilize sea containers to achieve their illegal ends.

Bad example.  

bad example

Let's compare how many deaths have been at the hands of school shooters and how many deaths there have been at the hands of sea containers.

Since the historical facts are not on your side, you've now decided to talk about potential. Nice trick.

Everybody hide

There's a sea container looking menacingly at the building.

I ♣ my seal

Candance - not on point

Candance - not on point tonight. I'll pretend that you're just egging me on.

What percentage of hardcore drugs enter America via sea shipment?

What percentage of illegal weapons enter through sea shipment?

What percentage of schools experience a school shooting?

This is simple mathematics. You're clearly being purposefully ignorant. 10 school shootings vs. thousands of pounds of cocaine, heroin, and illegal firearms.

Are you sure you're really trying to make this argument?

 

nevermind ginger

You and I are just not clicking.

Let's call it a night and try again some other time.

bal, I can almost see your point to a certain extent.

Problem is, a well-trained security-type person is damned near useless if they are on the other side of the property/campus when it hits the fan.

Timing in these situations is critical. Any delay in the response only benefits the criminal, and will probably result in more dead innocents.

And you are right, some people cannot properly handle guns in a stressful situation. A realistic training program will weed them out rather quickly.

-Dave.

you know Dave

That's been my point here all along. Not forcing teachers to do it against their will, but leaving the option there for those who feel qualified.

 

Which I suppose might be

Which I suppose might be worthwhile. But I want these teachers REALLY overqualified in handling these guns. 

aight bal

We seem to have come to an agreeable truce. :)

*looks around, gives bal a quick hug, and then finds some thread where they can go back to arguing*

I saw that

Wow, it's like stepping out of the foxholes and singing Christmas Carols.

I ♣ my seal

LOL Cool

Don't tell the admins.

:p

Oh Tannenbaum

Pershing's gonna kick your butt if he finds out.

I ♣ my seal

*looks around, gives bal a quick hug...

bal,

Lol-You lucky b*st*rd, you.  :-)

-Dave.

Hubba-hubba!  

Hubba-hubba!

 

aww dave

Do you feel left out?

*squeezes Dave around shoulders and gives him a peck on the cheek*

Since you're on "my side" it's okay. :)

I'm feeling the love! i

I'm feeling the love!

i know you don't like me much so maybe i can get a smack in the face? 

Journalism is the opium of the liberals

rofl truthie

*smiles politely and gives truth a quick hug*

Anyone else want some lovin before I turn in?

made my day:) what a

made my day:)

what a sweetie

:-)

As for that "squeeze" part, oh, just nevermind.  

-Dave.

candance, I tell everyone who asks me about gun ownership...

...for self-defense the exact same thing:

If you are not 110% positive that you can point a gun at another human being and pull the trigger at least twice without hesitation, then buy a dog.

Because, if you hesitate, even for a split-second, chances are you are going to wind up DRT (Dead Right There).

-Dave.

Geat Idea, NOT!!

Sure, let's turn our public schools into prison yards, and our kids into convicts!. Why not place RFID tags in every student too? After all, we don't want them running around unmonitored in unauthorized areas now, do we?

Armed guards in the schools. Locked doors and security patrols, metal detectors and mandatory ID's. No protective actions allowed by civilians until the authorities arrive and take control. Is this what you want? Bal, what you're asking for is FASCISM!

problem is

Many schools are already using metal detectors and security guards with little decrease in campus violence.

My last few years of high school in the late 90s our school had a security guard. He had an entire campus to patrol and was never around when a fight started or someone bought drugs.

Not saying a security guard is totally useless...but it's not a failsafe solution. 

And you're right, children hate the feeling of walking into that stuff as much as adults get nervous in airports.

Candance - My only point is

Candance - My only point is that it's absurd to drastically alter one's behavior for activities that rarely occur.

School shootings are incredibly rare. Literally, there have only been a handful in the entire history of our country. It's inefficient to base policy on rare events.

Perhaps we should only build short sky scrapers to avoid another 9/11.

really now ginger

You keep stressing the point that these shootings are small in the scope of American history. Yet let's be serious here. There's been a boom of these things in the past decade that you refuse to acknowledge.

9/11 has happened once. That's a totally different story.

And we're not talking about drastically changing things. If a teacher is a qualified gun owner who wants to assume a little more responsibility to protect his children, I don't see the harm in giving him that option.

Wrong Candance. There is

Wrong Candance. There is no boom. There are no statistics that indicate a "BOOM".

5 Shootings in the past 80 years is a boom? That's a bit extreme don't you think.

Again, introducing guns into the school environment is absurd. If you're so concerned about your wacky gun toting neighbors who can't control their own children, why don't you just install metal detectors?

Nip the problem in the bud.

By the way, 9/11 isn't that much less probable than the school shootings you're all fretting about. 1 in 200 years is not that much different than 6 in 200 years. Simple statistics.

*rolls eyes*

I linked to evidence of 45 incidents with guns in the last 12 years, and as cobra noted there's no way to document all the rapes, beatings, deadly fights, etc that are happening under the national radar. Just because you only hear about Columbine and Virginia Tech doesn't mean the story stops there.

Anyone who asserts that our schools are still as safe as they were 50 years ago has probably not been inside a public school in the past 50 years.

And as I mentioned below, lots of schools already use metal detetectors, but kids are still finding ways to bring in weapons.

And as for your crack about "wacky gun toting neighbors" it might surprise you to learn that the Columbine boys didn't get their guns from their parents and the VA Tech shooter did not grow up in a gun loving home. So that point makes absolutely no sense.

Candance - In light of your

Candance - In light of your post, I think it would be sweet if we could add the swinging doors from the wild west to the front of every school.  Resurrect Doc Holiday for some principal action.

It would be really authentic. Nothing like learning algebra from a teacher with a glock hanging from their waste. If that's not a conducive learning environment, I don't know what is.

45 gun incidents (dubious), yet you support gun availability? Very interesting. So you're argument is that guns are bad so we should combat them with more guns. I like it. That's high level analysis. A story like that's GOT to be true!

 

Gingerman

E ven this little podunk town has had gun violence in its schools within the last 10 years.

I assure you, it wasn't Teacher on Student crime.

I ♣ my seal

Candance: 1 garden

Candance: 1

garden variety troll: 0

 

 

"They're both doofuses!" --Mark Levin (speaking of Obama and McCain)

Still? This is still your

Still? This is still your thing? Zero value added.

Man it must be rough to lack creativity. Why even post if you have nothing interesting to add?

Jokes have legs around here.

 

Welcome back fateswebb!


Zero value added.

Next time, you should use a loaded gun if your goal is to shame or embarass me.

Meanwhile, (if you were paing attention) others have already pointed out the ignorance of your previous remark.

 

Welcome back fateswebb! Not.

gingerboy, you have just proven yourself a historical ignorant.

The "Wild West" was a myth. Fact is, it was one of the most polite societies that ever existed in this country. For the most part, most people lived and let live.

Criminals had a very short lifespan back then, as the "rights of criminals"-which you are currently defending-even if indirectly, were virtually unheard of.

-Dave.

RD - this is your

RD - this is your response?

You're right, people definitely didn't shoot each other regularly. Doc Holiday died from old age, as did Billy the Kid.

Furthermore, it was a joke. Dave, your response is a classical manuevar for people that have no retort.

Gun toting teachers. Yeeee Haw! What a seriously stupid premise.

gingertwit,

You were the one who mentioned swinging saloon doors.

Not me.

-Dave.

remember Dave

Jokes have legs around here.

He feels the discussion going south, so he resorts to a bunch of sarcastic nonsense and then acts huffy when you bring it up.

I see troll marks here.

what ginger?

You accused me of being obtuse of purpose, yet here you are doing the exact same thing.

If I want qualified teachers the option to have extra protection in their classroom, you equate it with the wild west. Nice to know we're not dealing with unfair extremes here.

You are quickly proving bt to be correct about your bad attitude.

I never said guns are bad. I said crazy students who want to kill their peers are bad, and it behooves us to stop them with every tool we have. Since teachers are right there with the students it only makes sense to allow them the right to defend those kids.

You need to get some sleep now anyway. Your syntax is slipping.

gingerbreadhead, when it is one of your chilren that buys it...

...due to the fact that it took the cops 17 minutes, or more, to respond to an armed scumbag in your child's school and, because of people like you, no teacher there was allowed to have a firearm nearby, which resulted in many other innocent children being killed, by all means, come back in here and tell us all how you feel about it.

-Dave.

Ok RD, it was my fault. I

Ok RD, it was my fault. I definitely raised those children wrong & taught them to shoot guns.  Their parents had nothing do with it.  Those messed up kids had nothing to do with it.  It ONLY happened b/c teachers weren't armed.  I mean, getting shot is definitely a deterrent for suicidal people right?

Teachers with firearms is really a priceless idea. If you're so afraid of the world why don't you just keep your kids at home? Let the rest of us who aren't so paranoid handle this whole public school thing.

As a Republican with principles, I find it hilarious that we call liberals whiners and wimps, meanwhile, we're afraid of our own shadows.

School shootings are rare. These are facts. I don't know what to tell you. You don't like it, teach your kids in your family room. I, personally, have no desire for my kids to go to a school filled with weapons.

Gingerman

If you're so afraid of the world why don't you just keep your kids at home?

Homeschooling is appealing for two main reasons. I'll submit the point you just made is one of them.

I ♣ my seal

gingerboy,

I, personally, have no desire for my kids to go to a school filled with weapons.

Then your children are sitting ducks.

BTW-And just why are you sending your children to a government school, anyway?

I mean, what did your children ever do to you to deserve to be sent to a government school?

Do you hate your children?

-Dave.

Rare? Ever been to South Central LA?

We NEED a "radical" change in the behavior of students teachers, and administrators in public schools, and we need it fast!  We need it because our current methods and tactics are not working, our kids are STILL getting hurt and killed, and the numbers increase every year.

You seem to concentrate ONLY on mass-shootings while ignoring the individual shootings that occur quite frequently. You’re also ignoring the rapes, assaults, robberies, and every other crime that occurs in our schools EVERY DAY! We need to protect our kids form ALL of the dangers they are facing in schools, and we need to teach them how to protect themselves and their friends in order to STOP these dangers from getting worse. We also need to teach the ADULTS who are supposedly in control in those schools in effective methods and techniques in preventing a crime form occurring, and stopping one AS IT OCCURS! Why is this so hard for you to understand?

We're teaching our kids the wrong message

We're teaching our kids the wrong message. Instead of teaching them to be responsible, to be self-reliant, to defend themselves and others, to STAND UP to aggression, we’re teaching them to hide away and let someone else take care of the problem for them, hopefully before they get hurt or killed. That's crazy! That's how societies fail!

Cobra - Isn't that the same

Cobra - Isn't that the same message you send when you teach them to let their teachers to take care of the problem for them?

I just made my kid watch Karate Kid a few hundred times. He doesn't need guns. He has a mean Crane Kick. He's the BEST AROOOOUND!

It's best NOT to submit to criminal behavior

It's best to show the kids that ANYONE can do what it takes to protect others from harm. Kids look up to teachers, right? If they see a teacher fighting back, those kids will see that they, too, can fight back. I guarantee you that crime, especially violent crime, will drop considerable when people start fighting back. Criminals don't want someone to fight back; they want someone to SUBMIT. Don't submit, as you're only reinforcing that criminal behavior. That's the lesson we need to be teaching our kids.

So that sounds like the kids

So that sounds like the kids should be the ones with the guns. 

Oh it is not. Overreact

Oh it is not. Overreact much? That's like me saying you want our schools turned into the OK Corral or Deadwood. 

It's your idea, not mine

Bal, you said yourself that you WANT "well trained" guards in the schools and you WANT to let the POLICE handle any problems that occur. You DON"T want civilians to use whatever force is necessary to protect themselves and others and you DON'T want responsible adult to carry guns in the schools ( or anywhere else for that matter) in order to stop someone from hurting or killing someone else! What other conclusion can I draw?

Here’s what your ignoring: Kids ALREADY have to carry mandatory ID's and a lot of public schools have metal detectors installed, especially those that are located in large cities. I know this because two of my three kids attend a public schools and they pass through those metal detectors every time they enter that school. They also must carry an ID card around their necks, and they must have transparent plastic or netting type bags so the "authorities" (their words, not mine) can make sure no one is carrying a gun, knife, or other dangerous weapon! They’re taught to run and hide if a threat appears and they’re taught not to try to fight back if assaulted! They’ve even been told by the school system to scream FIRE when they are getting assaulted as screaming HELP isn't effective! That's NOT an overreaction, that's the TRUTH!

And exactly how much of that

And exactly how much of that will change if there is a teacher with a gun? Zero. There will still be guards and metal detectors. 

You want your kid running towards a maniac with a gun? Really? How stupid is that?

And I never said I don't want anyone to carry a gun. I'm just not sure that a teacher carrying one is the answer. Maybe in really horrible crime-ridden inner city schools.

Your full of BS

You’re full of BS. Hw many metal detectors will be NEEDED if people understand that there's a real possibility that one or more of the teachers will be armed and will do whatever it takes to protect the students? The only reason those detecters are even installed is because criminals KNOW that the adults ARE NOT ARMED! Why do you think those criminals come ARMED to school in the first place? It isn't because they think they'll get into a shootout with a teacher, it's because they know that they WON"T.

I still can't believe you

I still can't believe you want your kid to run toward a maniac with a gun. 

Second, I don't think Klebold et al would care if a teacher had a gun. Ever. They wanted to kill, and then to die. They probably would have relished the chance to die in a hail of gun fire. Drug dealers? Perhaps. Crazed killers, no. 

sorry Bal

But in this case I gotta go with Cobra. The Columbine boys left plenty of evidence behind that their plan was to kill as many "weak" people as possible. They committed suicide as a last resort.

These people are crazy, not stupid. They target schools specifically because of the gun free zones and the peacenik teachers.

A crazy kid pulls out a gun and is immediately stopped = end of story.

A crazy kid shows up with a gun and kills 30 people before the cops show up = national news for a week.

They're not stupid.

And you want your kid

And you want your kid running at a maniac with a gun?

There is definitely a time and a place to confront someone, but when they're nuts and have a gun, and you don't, I'm not sure that's the time.

believe, or don't believe, what you want

Believe, or don't believe, what you want. It doesn't matter to me at all. I’m still going to teach my kids to defend themselves against ALL forms of violence.

You may find if astonishing that some people refused to cower in submission when faced with the threat of injury or death, but a lot of people feel the way I do. Our forefathers sure did, didn't they? After all, THEY stood up to armed violence and the threat of imminent death and look what THAT accomplished!

"Second, I don't think Klebold et al would care if a teacher had a gun. Ever."

That's not correct, they wanted to kill as many people they could BEFORE they died and they didn‘t want ANY resistance to their killing spree for as long as possible. That's why they picked a school as opposed to a police station.

Didn't you ever read their plans? They planed this out in detail long before their "rampage." They knew where everyone would be and they just how much resistance they would face. Remember, they didn't go into the gym and face a strong athletic instructor, nor did they attack any class with a MALE teacher. Where did they go? They went in to cafeteria and then the library as they knew that there'd be a lot of people around and they knew that no on there would be strong enough or capable enough to resist them. They even made planes to shoot themselves WHEN armed resistance arrived in the form of the police. That doesn't sound like the plans of people who wouldn't be concerned if they faced armed resistance now, does it? No, it sounds like the plans of people who did there best to avoid ANY resistance.

But it’s late and I’m going to bed. We can discuses this and other topics another time. I do enjoy the debates.

What's your alternative, dying without trying?

"You want your kid running towards a maniac with a gun? Really?"

Yes, really, as people get very nervous when someone CONFRONTS them unexpectedly, and with determination. The gunman, who’s looking to SCARE people into inaction and isn’t expecting resistance, usually fires in panic, and they usually miss! I leaned that from the military and it actually works!

What's your alternative? Running away and hiding under a desk? How stupid is THAT? After all, that didn't work very well in the mass-shootings now, did it? Despite the plans to run and hide, for their “protection,” the crazy bastards hunted them down and shot them anyways! Great tactic, eh? Better they learn how to DEFEND themselves when needed than to learn how to DIE because they didn’t fight back.

amber

I absolutely love your posts on this thread...in fact I've read several of them out loud to members of my household.

As for bal....fugettaboutit.  He's a knee jerk, anti-gun liberal and will never understand.  Well, unless he's one of the sheeple and you save his liberal a** from a crazed gunman. 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Sheeple

2nd your comment about amber.  Include Cobra Man too. As for sheeple, there's another one chiming in right below me.  I'd rather have a bunch of sheepdogs around when something like this blows than another little lamb trying to act like an adult. 

"The future is not set.  There is no fate but what we make for ourselves."

michaelyon-online.com

nofate... Hear!

nofate...

Hear! Hear!

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

Agreed, nofate

You are spot-on, I should have included CobraMan in my post as well.

But amber just impressed the hell out of me.

And thank you for the Sheep, Wolves, & Sheepdog link.  I'd read it before, and it is the absolute ANSWER to the School Board sheeple.  

Silly liberals....they can sing Kumbayah, all they want to....just don't do it on my dime.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Blonde

Thanks, I just got back to reading this thread and I love the way you all continued the argument.   You did great.

back at you, amber

You were the one who laid down the positive proof-perfect scenario here.  We just picked it up and ran with it.

It's good to know that the Sheep, Wolves, & Sheepdogs thing is alive and well (I'd read that a while back....sooooo true!).

Carry on, amber. 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

What are the odds of a

What are the odds of a school shooting? What percentage of schools have experienced a shooting?

In terms of an actuarial analysis, it makes no sense to bring guns into a school when the likely hood of needing to use them is neglible.

This topic is ridiculous in my mind and a prime example of irrational decision making.

 

okay ginger

Unless there's a major problem with schools spontaneously catching on fire there's no sense in mandatory fire drills.

Hey can,

You have this new troll dialed in nicely after two posts.

I may have to give you my troll-kicking boots. 

Excellent work! 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Lol B... He's not

Lol B...

He's not new...he's been gone awhile though...unfortunately looks like he was released today...

Hope it's just a day pass.

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

Concur, bt.

Sheesh....the trolls are worse than cockroaches and mosquitos....combined! 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

 

Squishy

B and BT (gives me a taste for a BLT). At least with cockroaches and mosquitos we're allowed to smack them into a squishy mess. With libs it's considered very un-PC. Might get us in trouble.

"The future is not set.  There is no fate but what we make for ourselves."

michaelyon-online.com

Candance - The probability

Candance - The probability of a fire occuring in a school is astronimically higher than the probability of someone shooting up a school.

Do the math. It's not that hard.

really?

The probability of that happening is a lot higher?

Well maybe I'm a little biased since I live in Virginia and my husband lost a former professor in that shooting.

And since there's been about 45 incidents involving guns on a school campus the past 12 years, that's an average of almost four of them a year.

http://www.infopleas...

It's time we start protecting our kids a little more than just telling them to hide beneath their desks.

Right, candance

When I was a little kid....right in the middle of the Cuban Missile Crisis, we were told to crawl under our desks and cover the back of our necks (oh...and don't look out the windows).

I'll never forget it....and how helpless it made me feel. 

As nofate said....Sheep, wolves, and sheepdogs.

Choose, liberals! 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

They SHOULD be trained

Your argument wasn't that they DIDN'T receive training, it was that this training would be INEFFECTIVE! Now you admit that this training IS effective. But you added the argument that they don't really receive this training. Ok, here's my response to that additional argument:

Just because teachers don't receive that training doesn’t mean they can't receive that training and act accordingly because of that training. As a matter of fact, they SHOULD be trained for this. They're trained in OTHER emergency situations, like FIRE DILLS, correct? There's really no difference between training to respond effectively in a situation like a fire or training to respond effectively in a situation like confronting and disabling an armed intruder or student and preventing that person from killing other people.

you're right Cobra

Schools are required to practice for fires, tornados, and damaged buses. In the 50s and 60s they practiced nuclear attack safety. I think it's high time for our schools to implement a plan for a terrorist attack - one that doesn't involve locking the doors and praying the bad guys won't notice you.

And I suspect that sarc is right just below us. This boils down to not wanting the 2nd amendment proven useful. We must always rely on the police/ambulance/state to protect us from ourselves.

The training requirments

The training requirments the school is placing on teachers is more strict than those who are just carying.  I would imagine it would be similar to what I did and more frequent.  I do think the CC classes need to be better and use more real life situations.

2 more things, Bal

Even though you seem to have lost interest in this subject. First, police officers who aren't also firearms hobbyists tend not to shoot very much. I think around here it's required once or maybe twice a year that they go to the range and score some mediocre score.

Second, maybe it's just me, but do you detect any unspoken, latent fear in the left wing union official of a pistol eventually being used legitimately by a teacher against a real threat, thus saving the day? She'd know such an incident might result in good publicity for those of us on the pro self defense side of this issue, and IMO that's what drives her instinctive, irrational fear.
JMR

The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.

Some Teachers Are Tough

I know teachers at my daughter's private school that wouldn't have any trouble defending the students with a gun.

But you know what they say about teachers, don't you? They make you do it over and over and over.

 

 Democrats are either Parasites or Parasite Enablers

Questions everywhere, who can handle the answers?

Why have we not heard from the teachers?  They will not be forced to carry any ordinance.  They will be volunteers. 

Parents, you need to pay close attention to what the president of the teachers union says.  This woman would prefer to have your children killed by anyone, including another child, than have the teachers stand up, defend YOUR children and the teachers own life.  Ask yourself WHY she would be willing to believe that.  Ask yourself why she was voted in as president of that union.

America - Personal responsibility to protect your self and your neighbors. 

Wait a minute, that comment may offend someone.

 

 

 

 

 

fear the reaper

well, if she thinks that, i know a veteren teacher she needs to meet.  he's guaranteed to change her entire perspective in about 30 seconds, max. 

2nd Amendment Agendas

MF:  "...None of that mattered to Fallon".  Nor, IMHO, does it appear to matter to Harry Smith at first glance.  But I did as extensive a search as I am capable of and could not find anything on "harry smith+guns" or "2nd amendment".  This video is very interesting and thank God for people like Mr. Thweat, who makes the case very well for having "resistance" to evil perps like those that entered Columbine or Va. Tech.  I found two articles that didn't get much comment on NB, here and here, that address some of the issues that arise with allowing private citizens to carry concealed weapons.

What I found most surprising was Smith's apparent objectivity while interviewing the two, especially his "um-hmm" non-partisanship while Mr. Thweat was speaking.  This is because I watched this video of a contentious Smith being smacked down by Tony Snow (h/t Conservative Girl) before I actually watched the Thweat interview.  Smith barely lets Tony get a word in edgewise before interupting him with some new lib slant.  Then there's this reasonable interview with Thweat.  Sometimes these guys do surprise us.

Just a thought here.  Watching Tony was like watching an old friend.  I've never met the man, and I'm sitting here almost tearing up thinking about him doing Rush's show, the Bush inauguration, etc.  I'm calling him Tony as if he was a friend of mine.  Watch the video.  What a guy.

"The future is not set.  There is no fate but what we make for ourselves."

michaelyon-online.com

How liberals work the news

Notice that the teachers union representative isn't from the same school district. She's from Houston - the other side of the state, and from a big city, not a rural district. According to Google Earth, Fallon is 150 miles away. Why did CBS bring her on? Why is she an expert on what some other school district has to say? Probably because she gave the liberal point of view: She labeled it a joke. And when asked how her district would have responded, she said, "we would have elected a new school board."

In other words, she smugly dismissed it without having to argue the details, which is intellectually dishonest, but damned convenient. 

Her only argument was that "her experience" is that teachers are just too compassionate to pull a trigger on a student. (She's a teachers' union president portraying teachers as heroically compassionate. Surprise.) 

So ask yourself who initiated this story. Which is the more likely explanation?

  • CBS editors in New York, in their tireless review of everything happening in America, noticed this item, and realized its inner meaning -- what does this say about America?

OR

  • The Texas teachers union didn't like the decision because teachers unions are liberal and guns aren't, but the liberals lost at the school board vote. So, to strike back, the teachers' union decided to hold the school board up for national ridicule, knowing that the media would portray it that way.

Harry Smith claims that he wants "to be as serious as possible."

How would she have elected

How would she have elected a new school board?  Obviously the parents were behind them.  Is she saying that she would break federal laws and take away the right of citizens?  She needs to be fired and have all teaching licenses revokes for life, she is advocating a felony and she is representing the teacher's union.

  Teachers like her are

 

Teachers like her are the very reason there is no disipline in schools. They can't bring themselves to punishing a student that is doing something wrong.

guns and liberals

Liberal's goal is to take our guns away not to prove their usefullness in stopping crimes. Because they cannot have Socialism till they disarm us.

It's always curious how a right leaning issue such as

this is treated as a joke by the MSM, but a left leaning topic such as some transvestite giving birth or Ellen getting married is a wonderful event.

or man made global warming

or man made global warming

Let me guess what she taught in school...

My guess is gym....shotput.

If a teacher is not willing to protect my child, they have no business being in the classroom.

Jeff Lebowski

www.angrywhitedude.c...

duty

I'm sorry. Anyone who has childern placed in his care and who would stand by and fail to protect them with WHATEVER means available should not be trusted to have them in his(HER) care in the first place. I can think of no moral failure so complete as to put one's own social theories ahead of protecting innocents. "Can't we all just get along(whine)" Apparently we don't so the question in the meantime is "whose side are you on?"

We have grown up into a

We have grown up into a world full of pu**ies

The Rocky Mountain Collegian: Illustrating Idiocy

10-15%

It's a shame that this woman speaks for ALL teachers. I'd estimate at least 10-15% of them would defend the kids with vigor. Many people have witnessed some pretty brutal fights in high school. It is always the real men who go in and break it up. Others, men and women, stand by and are freightened. Weak, cowardly, spineless  "liberals", unfortunately, run the educational system in America. That's why it is so bad.

P.S. A weak, cowardly, spineless "liberal" could soon be running the country. Sad. 

NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"

 I saw this interview on

 I saw this interview on Fox and I've got to tell you my blood boiled.  First off, just who in the hell does a union president think she is to tell an Independent school district that is not in her job scope anything? 

But what really got my blood boiling is the condescending way she said the legislature will "close that loophole". The written word does not convey how condescending and sneeringly (in this a word?) she stated this!

Well, the upshot is, I imediantly e-mailed my Texas state representative and informed him how I wanted him to vote against any such measure if it comes before the legislature. I intend to follow up on this bill and continue my e mail campaign. I am damn tired of school unions who, though as bad as any politician, are only looking out for themselves and damn the kids.  And if you want proof, I can provide it on a national scale. As those words came from the el jefe gordo of the NEA.

"Now, I've been around

"Now, I've been around teachers a long time. They don't have it in them to aim at a student and kill him. They'll freeze. Nor would I want them to."

So, in your world, it's preferable that kids continue to die at the hands of a fellow classmate rather than have an armed teacher save their lives?

Never assume that because you are a moronic fool that everyone else is too.

Negative evolution

The Founding Fathers, believing that most smart people would have it in their immediate interests to defend themselves from threats to their lives, did not plan for it to become "accepted" that "no one carries (nor needs to carry) guns anymore."

 

------------------------------------------------------------

"My morality is your morality."

RD, Candance, et al.

I can't read your replies. they are cut of on my computer screen.

Gingertwit is highly creative though.  It's great to watch the names come out as you lose the debate.  Happens everytime, just like clockwork.

In fact, you know you've proven your point when grown adults resort to sandbox name calling.   

I'll end the debate right now. Instead of giving teachers guns, just keep your kids at home.

Homeschooling is your solution. That way you don't inconvenience the rest of us who don't live every day in perpetual fear.

When did we become the party of fear? Every issue is a dire threat to our existence around here. Perhaps it's time to step back and relax.

I'm off to bed, early meeting tomorrow.

Goodnight fateswebb!

Goodnight fateswebb!

Forget gingertwit (only kidding) I should have said chickensh*t.

LOL.

-Dave.

candance, darlin', this calls for a really big HIGH-FIVE!

:-)

Replies cut off on his 'pooter screen, eh?

Right.  :-)

-Dave.

yeah Dave

Either he has a really crappy computer or he's lying. It all shows up on my laptop just fine.

Apparently in ginger's world, ignoring facts, cherry picking posts for reply, and misrepresenting the assertions of his opponent are the keys to winning a debate.

He won't last here.

It almost makes you long for the good old days of Leon and the Prof.

candance, I hope they let Leon and Perfesser Twadle back in.

LOL-At least they were, if nothing else, entertaining.

-Dave.

and:  EYEcare actually

and:  EYEcare actually U-Snot , also don't fergit Mobius Strip, Dave High,

 

"You can not support the Troops if you do not support their Mission" 

Mobius Strip & Dave High. Now, those were the days.

Busted Dave High bigtime, too, I did. LOL.   :-)

-Dave.

"Father" Baracus . . .

"Father" Baracus . . .

ginger... Early meeting

ginger...

Early meeting tomorrow indeed...time to renew your day pass or lose privileges...after-all they only let you out once in a blue moon.

Btw...

Shoot first...ask questions later.

That's my motto.

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

Did anyone notice the Fox video

running during the interview that showed all sorts of guns including what looked like machine guns?  They kept looping the video showing it over and over during the interview.

What is it with people in the media?  Have they all tested positive for stupid?

Jeff Lebowski

www.angrywhitedude.c...

Nah Jeff... They are not

Nah Jeff...

They are not stuck on stupid in this case anymore than the same loops of poor wittle polar bears drowning...same clips over and over....

We must remember all networks have an agenda and that includes Fox in my opinion...Rupert Murdoch is a believer in global warming, plus he is for gun control last I read...although it has been awhile, but I doubt that has changed.

Just my thoughts on this all... 

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

bt, I hear Kos only serves gruel between 6 and 6:15am.

LOL-After that, they are on their own.

I would hate for gingerman to miss out.

-Dave.

Geez, 160+ posts and

no one mentioned this;

http://www.cbsnews.c...

Think it can't happen here? Well 99.9999% of us thought 9/11 couldn't happen here either. 

 

 

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love youBut if you really make them think, they'll hate you.

Don Marquis 1878-1937

HK.... Excellent

HK....

Excellent link....EXCELLENT EXAMPLE of what very well could happen right here....

I had forgot all about that until now.

...that was heart-wrenching.

People in this country are fools if they think this couldn't happen here...or to their child in a public school.

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

Exactly BT,

I pray it never comes to pass here. But, unfortunately we are dealing with zealots and that means there are zero rules. I mean, what better way for terrorist to terrorize America than to pull a Belsan here.

You know, I'm not a fear monger, in fact I can't stand fear mongering, but this has HAPPENED already. And I can't for a second think that Queda has forgotten it. 

BTW, this made me cry;

http://www.hbo.com/d...

Heart-wrenching to say the least. 

Update:

Anyone interested in watching the Children of Beslan can do so here;

http://search.ovguid...

 

 

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love youBut if you really make them think, they'll hate you.

Don Marquis 1878-1937

HK.... Thanks for the

HK....

Thanks for the link...I have it saved.

For a day when I could handle it..if you know what I mean.

Of course the terrorist know where what and when to do what they have planned to do next to us..people are complacent fools that think everything is rosy and nothing is going to happen because we are all oh so nice here...instead of being armed and ready for their planned next attacks...they have all the patience they need with us...they know exactly what is going on here with every step we take, in each area of our country, from border to border.

Our children are a prime target, not just wall street ect...they know where to strike at the heart of us.

If the leftists had their way we may as well as just bend over and kiss our arses good-bye. 

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

You're welcome, BT.

I think I know exactly what you mean. Hear, Hear to the rest of your post.

Take care and have a good night/early morning. :-}

 

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love youBut if you really make them think, they'll hate you.

Don Marquis 1878-1937

Armed teachers

Wonder if it works in Israel?

In late
May 2002, an Israeli teacher shot a suicide terrorist before he could harm
anyone
.

Well, would you look at that?

I ♣ my seal

Yeah Cool,

hopefully we can learn something from it. 

 

 

If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love youBut if you really make them think, they'll hate you.

Don Marquis 1878-1937

I remember that and the

I remember that and the argument I had with the parent group.  They were discussing what we do to protect our kids from terrible news like that so they do not see it.  I looked at them like they had holes in their head.  I said I used it as an opportunity to discuss what they should do if something like that did happen ...and then there was this lady "I believe world peace is possible in my lifetime" I laughed out loud thinking she was joking.  She wasn't.