The Early Show did its best this morning to help Barack Obama climb out of the hole he's dug for himself with his close association with the Rev. Jeremiah Wright.
In a set-up segment, CBS's Dean Reynolds rhetorically asked: "the question is whether the rhetoric is so remarkable, because in African-American churches pastors often seek to rouse their congregants to self-reliance by speaking harshly about the country's troubled racial past and the need to overcome it."
Nice try, but how does accusing the US government of introducing AIDS and giving black people drugs equate to a call for self-reliance?
Reynolds concluded by stating that the Obama campaign is concerned that its candidate has been "victimized" in the same way the Trinity church claims Rev. Wright has.
Then it was on to a Russ Mitchell interview of the Rev. Dr. Calvin Butts, III of Harlem's famed Abyssinian Baptist Church. The thrust of Mitchell's questions and Rev. Butts' responses was that the controversy is being blown out of proportion, that fiery rhetoric is a tradition in black churches with roots in the Bible and even in the words of Jesus. Moreover, it would be wrong to expect congregants to criticize their pastors' words.
View video here .
RUSS MITCHELL: When it comes to the African-American church, how surprised should people be when they hear a pastor, from the pulpit, giving a controversial message using such strong language?
BUTTS: Well, the strength of the language of course is questionable. However, the prophetic tradition of the African-American church has been such that we have had to criticize the nation that we love so dearly in order to win our human and civil rights. We've had to speak harshly about the injustices to draw people's attention to the real problems that we've had to face. The shock value is nothing new. The Prophets used it in ancient Israel. The Disciples used it, Jesus called the Pharisees whitened sepulchres or whitened tombs. So the shock rhetoric is not unusual in pulpits, black or white, but certainly in the black community because people have to have the point driven home, and they have to have made vivid. And sometimes the language can be awfully powerful.
A bit later, Mitchell lobbed Butts some softballs clearly intended to get Obama off the hook. The Reverend didn't squander his plate appearance.
MITCHELL: When people hear Reverend Wright speaking on YouTube, on television, they hear the congregants applauding. Is it fair to assume that everyone in the congregation walks out of that church agreeing with what the pastor says?
BUTTS: Absolutely not. We have thinking people in our congregations, people who know how to discern between the very fiery and forceful rhetoric and the actual application in life. I don't know the full context of Reverend Wright's sermons, all of them, but I do know that all of us have used strong language from time to time in order to drive home a point. It's in the prophetic tradition. It's not unusual to the black church either. I mean, it's used in churches. It's used in synagogues. It's used in mosques. It is the sacred rhetoric. And it is often forceful. It is often powerful. It is often condemnnatory. In the Bible they call the great civilization of Babylon, pardon the expression, a whore.
Mitchell returned to that theme at interview's end.
MITCHELL: Black congregants are reluctant, are they not, to criticize their pastor in public, even when the pastor says something as strong, as controversial as what Reverend Wright said?
BUTTS: That's right. I'm very surprised at any congregant who would denounce his or her pastor.
MITCHELL: Why is that?
BUTTS: Well, because people love their pastors, and in the churches they understand the rhetoric. See, you shouldn't look at this as they walk into church and the pastor says something shocking and they immediately run to it. They understand what is radical rhetoric and what is the practical application of the love of God to everybody.
—Mark Finkelstein is a NewsBusters contributing editor and host of Right Angle. Contact him at mark@gunhill.net.





















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Comments Policy
Black enough?
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 10:39 ET by ThisnThatThis goes back to original statements from the black community -- is Obama black enough? I think we're finding out, now, exactly what this means. It means emersing oneself into the black community; rejecting all aspects of American society if it has any relationship to "whites"; claim allegiance to Africa; and make sure you hate America. This doesn't just come from the black churches -- it's an attitude that is widespread. It's poisenous, as Obama is now finding out.
___________________________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
I don't see this country
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 11:23 ET by kgI don't see this country improving race relations until white liberals stop apologizing for being white and blacks stop moaning about being victims.
"Forget change, I want improvement!"
It Will never happen, people
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 13:07 ET by oorampIt Will never happen, people I try to talk to, are just too ignorate of basic, plain, facts of life.
If the comments are so
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 10:39 ET by nwahsIf the comments are so acceptable or usual why did Obama reject them and compare the person who said them to a nutty relative? Why is Obama throwing Wright under a bus? You can't have it both ways.
Free speech
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 10:47 ET by iveseenitallWhy is it that the lies from the left are "free speech", but the truth from the right is "hate speech"? If a white "preacher" with a 20 year relationship with McCain had uttered hate-filled remarks in any context, John would be gone. This is B.S.
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
Not only
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 11:04 ET by cvgbuckeyeIves: Not only would McCain no longer be a candidate for president but, in short order he would be brought before the US Senate and forced to resign his Senate seat. He would forever be branded a racist of the worst kind and would live the rest of his life in disgrace. The black community, the democrat party, the MSM and the liberal politicos in general would hound him and anyone that he was related to or shared a zip code with him would be labeled a racist for life.
Double standard is a puny term that is nowhere near big enough for a situation such as this. Lets ask Trent Lott and the man who uttered the name "Macaca" if they were judged using the same criteria as the Obama people want us to judge him.
let's have McCain hang out
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 12:52 ET by TruthMongerlet's have McCain hang out at Westboro Baptist and see what happens in the news! That'll prove us NB whackos wrong when the MSM says it's no big deal really...
when you own the MSM - you
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 10:48 ET by TruthMongerwhen you own the MSM - you can have it any what that you want:)
to be fair, the MSM also defended Robertson and Falwell this way all the time, too - didn't they? I can't quite remember...
TM... To refresh your
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 11:34 ET by bigtimerTM...
To refresh your memory in answer to your burning question at the end....
Yeah right.....when pigs fly.
thanks, I'm remembering
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 12:48 ET by TruthMongerthanks, I'm remembering now:)
http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2007-05-15-falwell-obit_N.htm
http://mediamatters.org/items/200508220006
Love, practically applied?
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 10:50 ET by nofate"They understand what is radical rhetoric and what is the practical application of the love of God to everybody." Really!? That's what "No, no, not 'God Bless America, but 'G..D.. America!" means? Thanks for explaining that, sir.
Insert the word "white" into six of the 12 points that used to be up on the website of Obama's church and you would have them all over the church that dared to espouse that. For a while, it appeared that Obama really was a believer of the "I have a dream" type of philosophy. It is unfortunately obvious now that he believes in a separatist, racist, afro-centric philosophy and the crazy uncle is out of the attic. We'll see if the antique media manage to stick him back up there.
Gimme a break!
"The future is not set. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves."
michaelyon-online.com
Spinning Into The Ground
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 10:53 ET by rammingspeedObama and the DNC better step in and shut down these wacky defenders of the indefensible. This is hilarious spin, and the fact that Mitchell and CBS can't see it is shocking.
The rock star Obama has been caught with groupies in the back of the tour bus. This isn't going away.
The media can't see it.
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 11:02 ET by usinkoreaThe media can't see it. They have paid too much into Obama to drop him now, and the contreversy is too big and obvious for them to ignore it.
This is not Dean yelling like a psycho just as he was beginning to carry a lot of weight.
Dean had to make himself from the grassroots up. His internet people and others made him a force the media had to cover, and when his true colors were shown to shine through, it was easy for the media to bury him in favor of Kerry.
The media's Obama is a different story...
The media created him about a year ago. They gave him an amazing amount of positive coverage to build him up.
Then, within the last couple of months, a large section of the media and other big Dem. supporters clearly made the decision to support Obama over Hillary.
Now, a couple of months down that road, their choice has hit a mammoth roadblock on the way to the White House. Do they just dump him and go for Hillary?
That is what they will eventually do ----
----but for a week or two, they will test the waters to see if the American people are as stupid as they think we are....
Two words:
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 11:21 ET by nofate..."the fact that Mitchell and CBS can't see it is shocking."
rammingspeed: Two words: Dan Rather.
"The future is not set. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves."
michaelyon-online.com
Uh, Rev. Butts, then why is
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 10:53 ET by motherbeltUh, Rev. Butts, then why is Obama taking pains now to distance himself from it, removing Rev. Wright from his website, dismissing him from his campaign?
If all you are saying is true, then isn't Obama a hypocrite for doing all that?
It was a sure thing the
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 10:55 ET by usinkoreaIt was a sure thing the media would run cover for this - because they don't disagree with the pastor. They call such language "divisive" only in relation to their understanding that many Americans don't agree with them. But, if they were sitting around the facaulty lounge of most colleges in the country, or sitting sipping coffee in the breakroom of most news organizations, they wouldn't find much wrong with Rev. Wright's thoughts.
- "...because they don't
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 14:34 ET by red_dragon311- "...because they don't disagree with the pastor"
This is why the MSM is not making an issuse of this. and why we will never have a "reporter" ask Barak H-Word Obama about this other then
Any MSM "I too have a crazy uncle that thinks he's King George, all day he says 'off with thier heads!!!!!' and 'damn those colonist !!!' why do people judge you because of the people in you life?"
BHO " Well we need to change and hope for the future that is yet to come. The past is behind us and the futture is ahead of us while we right now live in the present. We have hope the the future that is coming will be changed enough for the present to be here now and the to look to the past that is behinds us, but learne from that past to chnage the future"
MSM "well that is good enough for me"
I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist
Defending and spreading
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 10:59 ET by ScrapironCBS, defending the racist and spreading racism one broadcast at a time.
Old, Retired and glad of it.
Well, because people love
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 11:14 ET by jwm45Well, because people love their pastors, and in the churches they understand the rhetoric.
is Butts trying to say it's mostly show-biz from the pulpit?
Fiery Rhetoric?
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 11:16 ET by Tito of Custos FideiYou can have fiery rhetoric without the hate, venom, and vitriol. These guys defending the hate speech are no better than the brownshirts beating up on people for saying your violent.
Sick.
...hate, venom, vitriol, +
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 11:39 ET by mattm...hate, venom, vitriol, + lies, fear, bitterness, unforgiveness, emnity, strife, envy, etc. etc. etc. is this a Church?
"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." Galations 5:22-23
Rhetoric and the KKK
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 15:14 ET by ThisnThat"That fiery rhetoric is a tradition in black churches with roots in the Bible and even in the words of Jesus".
It's also a tradition with the KKK. What's the difference when they both incite racial animonsity? Is CBS going to defend the KKK?
___________________________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
Well, I knew the msm would
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 11:41 ET by bigtimerWell, I knew the msm would have two days to defend and plan their spin regarding their new boy on the block Obama...this type of spin started earlier than yesterday but Donna Braisle comes to mind with her same spin yesterday on Georgie Porgie's show....exact same rhetoric.
What absolute lying hypocrisy if this was reversed we all know the outrage 24/7 the msm would have.
Yes they are playing their part well....problem is, Obama isn't.
This is just the beginning of him doing himself in...no matter the protection and spin by the msm...he may as well bend over and kiss his rear good-bye...in the long run he may as well stick a fork in himself, he is done, no matter if he makes it to the general election, McCain will win by default.
bigtimer
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 12:10 ET by lotrRight now I have a tough time believing that Obama will be the nominee. Pray that she loses in the general election.
lotr... Amen to that last
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 12:23 ET by bigtimerlotr...
Amen to that last sentence...
Not so fast, watch for the backlash
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 12:57 ET by Prester JohnMight not some of the few remaining blacks that support Hillary run to Obama as a sign of "solidarity"?
And what of the far Left hate America types? Might not some of those crawl out of the woodwork to vote for Obama in PA and the few remaining primaries this his preacher is saying exactly what they've believed for the last 40 years or so?
Throw in the fact that the MSM will be doing everything they can to explain Wright away and things may not swing to Hillary as much as people think.
PJ... I agree...and am
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 13:01 ET by bigtimerPJ...
I agree...and am looking forward to June and Denver for this very reason.
Popcorn and beer at the ready...it is going to be fun fun fun.
I hope he wins the dem. general election myself.
Hi BT:
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 14:53 ET by iveseenitallI hope BO wins the nomination. This is eye opening for so many Americans who haven't been engaged to this point. The whole affair evinces the state of mind of the radical left. Furthermore, it demonstrates what a canard the whole "racist" sham has been for at least 20 years. Who are the "racists"? Who are the "liars"? Who has been profiting from being a "preacher" to the black lemmings. We all saw the cheers go up for "God Damn America". Yes, Jesus would have gone to these churches---- and told the divisive, hate-mongers to cease and desist. BO is far from being a savior; he sat and listened and probaly was applauding the words of Wright. Hypocrites all--but they are being outed.
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
I really, really wanted to
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 15:48 ET by usinkoreaI really, really wanted to see Newt Gingrich and Hillary Clinton as the two candidates.
I was blogging about this months ago. I really wanted to see a bloodbath -- a real purging of the American soul --- something that should have happened after 9/11 --- a real serious, knock-down-drag-out fight about what American is, was, and will be in the future in this world....
But Gingrich didn't get in, and it looked like Obama/Hillary and McCain were going to successfully dive to the center, at least during the election period, and everyone was going to go the route of playing nice --- and not saying what they say around each other when no outsiders are watching (or taping).
But, thanks to Obama and his pastor, maybe we'll get some of that full-light-of-day discussion about the true meaning of "America" that the election has been unwilling to get into even though both parties are fairly well set in their beliefs and not afraid to say it - say - on their blogs....
This won't go away. The media will either have to find a way to defend Obama fully ----- including the statements the pastor made --- or bury him.
(They'll have to bury him in the end anyway.....it's only a matter of when they finally give up....because the Obama and far left view of what America is is not shared by enough of the voting public.....)
A large chunk of the media
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 15:41 ET by usinkoreaA large chunk of the media and the Dem establishment (to be just a little redundant) really got reamed with this:
the went to such huge lengths to build Obama up a year ago, and a few months ago, they finally got together and with most of them in agreement decided to support Obama and torpedo Hillary. And now he is toast...
They probably threw Hillary in a hole most of all because they thought she was unelectable, but also because she was too much a power in the establishment, unlike a fresh, untried senator that Obama is (who might be controlled more as pres. than Hillary would likely be) ---- but now Obama's true life has made him unelectable.
I'd put the editors of the major American dailies and news magazines on suicide watch....
There is no way this does not remain a campaign issue for as long as Obama is in the race.
If McCain continues long term to avoid the issue and even run cover for Obama, from what little I heard this weekend, then somebody needs to kick him in the head....
There is no way this is not relevant.
In fact, it speaks volumes for what a certain very influencial potion of the American people think about America as a nation --- important people in our media, higher education, Hollywood, and so on.....
The Republicans would be brain dead not to use this opportunity to engage in a debate with the American people about what America truly stands for --- a debate the left can't engage in in the full light of day -- without scrambling for the cover of darkness like a bunch of roaches....
"If McCain continues long
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 15:49 ET by red_dragon311"If McCain continues long term to avoid the issue and even run cover for Obama, from what little I heard this weekend, then somebody needs to kick him in the head...."
this and only this will dictate how i vote, or if I vote.
If McCain runs cover and says anything like " These are not BHO words and he HAS distanced himself from the Rev...." McCain will be an easy push over"
all McCain has to say is ........pretty much anything questioning these statements. one little ....anything.....and McCain has my vote....as i hold my nose...but he needs to come out and address this.
I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist
"The Prophets used it in
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 11:46 ET by lotr"The Prophets used it in ancient Israel. The Disciples used it, Jesus called the Pharisees whitened sepulchres or whitened tombs."
This is true enough -- John the Baptist, the Apostles Peter and Paul, and Jesus Himself, had plenty of "fire and brimstone" in a radical call for repentence and conversion. Never, however, did they issue the blanket statement along the lines of "God Damn Rome to Hell." Jesus on the cross, speaking undoubtly of Roman and Jewish authorities, prayed "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."
Now that these MSM talking heads have raised "WWJD?", what is ironic is for us to consider just who is the real self-righteous Pharisee here?
To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: "Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood up and prayed about himself: 'God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.'
"But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, 'God, have mercy on me, a sinner.'
"I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted."
-- Luke 18:9-14
Try these on for
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 12:03 ET by Lord ElicaniTry these on for size:
"Then Peter began to speak: 'I now realize how true it is that God does
not show favoritism but accepts men from every nation who fear Him and
do what is right.'"
- Acts 10: 34-35
"We are no longer Jews or Greeks or slaves or free men or even merely men or women, but we are all the same—we are Christians; we are one in Christ Jesus."
- Galatians 3:28
Amen.
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 12:11 ET by lotrAmen.
we turn to the book of Liberals, 6:66
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 14:22 ET by UndercoverConservative"...and lo, did Jesus say unto them from the Mount, "My Father damneth the States America...a nation thou hast not heard of yet but trust Me, will be Damnable! Bear ye witness forwith that I am Black, and believe not the evidence of your eyes, for I am as Nubian as they come!"
Maybe that's the "secret book" and "words of Jesus" these @ssholes keep referring to when they compare hate spewing rabble rousers to the Savior. Or where they get their convenient Revisionist histories from.
What's "unfair" is that on their Day of Reckoning, as we watch these false prophets (hey, something that's *actually* in the Bible!) cast down one after the other from the Pearly Gates, we're not supposed to laugh, point fingers and wave "bye bye!"s and "told ya so!"'s as they plummet to their hellish doom. That's probably a sin too.
Which I bet is the real root to the anti-religious. Being told there are things they shouldn't do. Having rules that stand between them and gratification. But it sure is a lot easier to achieve a guilt-free life when you believe nothing is ever "wrong".
"to call an illegal immigrant an "undocumented alien" is the same as calling a streetcorner drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist".
ya know undercover
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 14:31 ET by candanceThe funniest thing about it is that the "white guy" Pontius Pilate wanted to save Jesus but the "black guy" Caiaphus was the one pushing for his execution. So even then, Wright's logic doesn't hold up because Jesus's own people made the case against him.
One minute he portrays Israel as a poor, defenseless nation under the iron grip of Rome, and then he calls Israel a terrorist state with an iron grip over Palestine.
"whitened tombs"? how about "walking in darkness"?
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 14:47 ET by m36b1Only a Godless, totally ignorant liberal apologetic (or maybe a preacher like Wright, or possibly people in his congregation) would take Matthew 23:27 and say that Jesus is talking about CAUCASIANS?!? “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which outwardly appear beautiful, but within are full of dead people's bones and all uncleanness." WOW - what an amazing distortion. The MSM and this Butts idiot are totally wacked out. That's like taking the phrase "walking in darkness" and saying it's a derogatory reference to black people. TOTAL, blind, apologetic, idiocy on the part of the MSM. I hope they keep on making these moronic statements in favor of Obama. Reeeeeaaching or panic setting in on part of the MSM as far as I'm concerned.
Truth
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 23:50 ET by jpatchI agree completely.
Panic has set in. One of my most liberal friends had a dream last night that Obama conceded to Hillary. The only problem is, none of them will talk about the 800 lbs. gorilla in the room: rampant black on white racism in America.
Anyone remember MTV's "The Real World", about 10 years ago, one of the black male characters fighting with a white female character about racism? The black man exclaims, "black people can't be racist, we don't have the power."
The whole mindset is right there in that one sentence. There is no accountability for racism, intolerance, ignorance, bigotry, etc. from the "minorities" because "they don't have the power."
We, meaning the rich, white man, owe every "minority" in this country something, don't we? Their plight is our fault, is it not?
I experienced this in college, only 8 years ago. Young, intelligent, driven, soon to be successful young African Americans, who had an open dislike for white people. Moreover, many students that I lived with, in my opinion, were ingrained with a deep sense of entitlement...from the white community. Reminds me of Mrs. Obama, to a "t".
What planet do I live on? I'm starting to go crazy folks. I wrote a paper in college, called, "The New Minority". Guess what it's about.
"black people can't be
Tue, 03/18/2008 - 13:45 ET by lotr"black people can't be racist, we don't have the power."
That's a very interesting quote, for it nevertheless implicates Obama, a U.S. Senator, running for POTUS, with considerably more power, I daresay, than most ordinary folks. Of course, stepping outside of the illogic of the quote, my point is that in 2008 it's no longer true that African Americans "don't have 'the power'." Quite the contrary, in fact; God Bless America.
jpatch.... Don't go
Tue, 03/18/2008 - 13:55 ET by bigtimerjpatch....
Don't go crazy....you have a long way to go yet, maybe by the time you are around my age things in this country will be different.
The leftists in this country have sown what we are reaping now all for their own power politically, only problem is that it is now coming back to bite all of them on the left of all colors...which I find rather rich and am finally taking some pleasure in just watching this all.
Keep up the good fight, and patience is a virtue...which I am the last person to talk about patience, but sometimes as one gets older that is what you must have.
Did you get an A on your paper about "The New Minority"?
Truth
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 23:51 ET by jpatchdouble dip.
Oohhhh....
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 11:48 ET by WhoIsJohnGalt"BUTTS: Well, because people love their pastors, and in the churches they understand the rhetoric. See, you shouldn't look at this as they walk into church and the pastor says something shocking and they immediately run to it. They understand what is radical rhetoric and what is the practical application of the love of God to everybody. "
So, when the radical white pastor or KKK leader in a church, refers to blacks as lazy and shiftless, it's just rhetoric and we should accept it within it's context of driving home a point in a sermon???
Sure, that'll be the day. I don't care who says such things or where/when...it's not acceptable, just as the things that Wright said are unacceptable.
"It's simply not accurate
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 11:54 ET by goldbar"It's simply not accurate to say that because someone endorses me that I therefore embrace their views." --Barack Obama
Yeah right gb...Obama
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 12:01 ET by bigtimerYeah right gb...
Obama just had twenty years of an inconvenience attending and listening, donating to the church and Wright, it was just an inconvenience when he was married by him and his kids baptized by him....but heck he didn't know or agree with his views, he was just forced by gunpoint to attend these hate filled sermons...so he didn't embrace and share his views....are you kidding me, or are you just playing stupider than usual today?
Give me a break.
However, I think it's
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 12:06 ET by Chris NormanHowever, I think it's accurate to say that by staying in the congregation for twenty years , Obama has tacitly accepted this hateful bile.
This wasn't just an
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 12:26 ET by motherbeltThis wasn't just an endorsement; this is a 20-year relationship, goldbar. If Wright came out of nowhere last month and endorsed Obama, I might buy that. But I'd say a 20 year relationship indicates that one embraces those views.
And Rev. Butts should explain why, if everyone understands that it's just show-biz and rhetoric, Obama felt it necessary to "sanitize" his website.
Could it be that Bill Kristol was right? (paragraph break omitted; emphasis added):
Obama seems to have seen, early in his career, the utility of joining a prominent church [ ]. Now he sees the utility of distancing himself from that church. Obama’s behavior in dealing with Wright is consistent with that of a politician who often voted “present” in the Illinois State Legislature ..[ ]....The more you learn about him, the more Obama seems to be a conventionally opportunistic politician,.. [ ].. who has put together a good political career and a terrific presidential campaign..[ ]..There’s the calculation of ambition, and the construction of artifice, mixed in with a dash of deceit —
In short, there is NO "new kind of politics" here. Obama is just a more charismatic version of the conventionally opportunistic politician.
Sorry. I got the wrong
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 12:41 ET by goldbarSorry. I got the wrong attribution on that quote. Here's the correct one:
"It's simply not accurate to say that because someone endorses me that I therefore embrace their views." --John McCain on his endorsement by Reverend John Hagee
C'mon, Goldbar!
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 14:14 ET by Mica the MagnificentNice try. . .
You're claiming that McCain hung out with Rev John Hagee for 20 years?
You're claiming that Hagee presided over the wedding of Cindy and John McCain?
You're claiming that McCain had his kids baptized by Rev. John Hagee?
If you are, then the similar quotes from Obama and McCain would be comparing apples to apples.
Otherwise . . . .
(corrected typo)
That's it. That's all ya
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 12:49 ET by Jack BauerThat's it. That's all ya got? But you are wright about being wrong. Give ya that.
Did McCain say anything about a person who deliberately sought out and joined a church where hate preach is practised for nigh on 20 years.
Then chossing the hate preacher to be your personal mentor, and spiritual advisor, and sounding board.
I think you are suffering from guilt by dis-association.
gbCute by half...you
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 12:49 ET by bigtimergb
Cute by half...you know danged good and well there is no comparison...there is a difference of attending a church with the same Rev. for 20 years... than being endorsed by someone you know nothing about.
I know you are just trollin' because that's what you do...I usually ignore you, wish I would of in the first place...others can mess with you...I'm done.
Btw...here is a link just for your entertainment...your guy seems to be lying again...hope with time there is prove of this via video...of course you'll sit and spin that too or any other example that may come to light along with the leftist msm.
Either way at the end of the day he is done, general election or not.
C'mon...you referencing
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 13:03 ET by goldbarC'mon...you referencing NewsMax is like me referencing Huffington Post.
C'mon... Robert Kessler is
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 13:11 ET by Jack BauerC'mon... Robert Kessler is a well-respected investigative journalist, and best selling author.
Here's my link for you
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 13:15 ET by goldbarHere's my link for you reading pleasure:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/17/obama-was-in-chicago-the-_n_91876.html
Did you even READ the article YOU linked to?
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 18:27 ET by Indiana JoeTalk about shooting yourself in the foot! (Emphasis added):
"But according to the Washington Post's presidential tracker, Obama did, in fact, make an "appearance" in Chicago on the morning in question: July 22, 2002. He also, later in the day, flew to Miami for a speech.
"Obama's spokesperson Tommy Vietor confirmed that the schedule was accurate but stressed that the senator did not make a stop at Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ.
"We have reviewed his schedule," he wrote. "He didn't go to church that day."
"Which is perfectly plausible. Just because Obama was in Chicago doesn't mean he attended church. But he was, in fact, in Chicago that morning."
So now, we've gone from "he couldn't be there, he was in Miami," to "he was in Chicago, but he didn't go to church."
What's next, "he was there, but he wasn't listening?"
And, he was in town, but didn't attend church? Now, why would such a devoted churchmember skip services when he was in town? He must miss a lot when he's on the stump. You'd think he'd take every opportunity to attend when he could, wouldn't you?
Face it, the only reason anyone paid attention to his church is because he held himself up as a "righteous, church-going man." Now, the chickens are coming home to roost.
And, he was in town, but
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 18:34 ET by motherbeltAnd, he was in town, but didn't attend church? Now, why would such a
devoted churchmember skip services when he was in town? He must miss a
lot when he's on the stump. You'd think he'd take every opportunity to
attend when he could, wouldn't you?
He himself said "I try to go to church as much as I can." It does seem odd that he would be in Chicago and pass up a chance to go to his own church.
It IS odd, MB. And you KNOW
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 19:33 ET by Indiana JoeIt IS odd, MB. And you KNOW he wouldn't LIE about something like that, would he?
It would be SO "old-politics!"
;^D
Jack... Thank you for
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 13:22 ET by bigtimerJack...
Thank you for putting this out there...trolls like gb do not care one wit though, goes right over their empty air-space of a noggin'...but others will find this info useful..
Well done, excellent as always.
BT -- like you're even a
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 13:27 ET by Jack BauerBT -- like you're even a McCain supporter!!
Exactly Jack! It's been
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 13:32 ET by bigtimerExactly Jack!
It's been all I can do for the last two days now and then to not even state that in some of my posts...I have been so tempted but what the heck...he's gonna' win by default anyway, so I don't have to worry about any guilt trips by some ...or having a hangover the next day for having to be drug to the voting booth if he picks a conservative for VP while I mark my X beside his name...
I'm SAFE!
I've got the goods on your
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 13:32 ET by goldbarI've got the goods on your 3rd party candidate. Should have been a sideshow geek...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlknh9T91kQ
goldbar... You are one
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 13:36 ET by bigtimergoldbar...
You are one sick cookie.
That's disgusting. Did you
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 14:22 ET by motherbeltThat's disgusting. Did you actually do a search for "cat eating mouse"?
mb -- Coincidentally, the
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 14:32 ET by Jack Bauermb --
Coincidentally, the Cat is called Clinton -- and the mouse was called Obama!
What are the odds?
LOL...Mouse took the cheese
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 14:39 ET by bigtimerLOL...Mouse took the cheese in this case... eh Jack?
wrong place
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 14:29 ET by motherbeltwrong place
saw that link earlier
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 13:07 ET by motherbeltsaw that link earlier today, bt.....not only present, but nodding his head? Hmm....the plot thickens
Take pity on goldbar...he's just bummed because his "new kind of politics" candidate is proving to be nothing more than a run-of-the-mill, expediency-first politician.
Speaking of thickening
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 14:04 ET by goldbarSpeaking of thickening plot...
http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/03/kristol_bungles_key_fact_in_an.php
I suppose now that you have
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 14:31 ET by motherbeltI suppose now that you have "proven" that he wasn't there on that particular date,
the entire argument about Obama's 20-year membership in a church with a
hateful pastor, (bad enough that when he gets caught, must be removed
from his website) is now invalid?
That only proves that one "witness" was wrong. Because of that, Obama's
word that he "never" heard Rev. Wright's vitriol is to be swallowed whole?
ROFL @ Goldbar
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 14:08 ET by candanceYou're comparing Hagee's endorsement of McCain to Wright's friendship with Obama?
Please, by all means, show me links of McCain attending Hagee's church, having his daughter christened by Hagee, citing Hagee as one of his mentors.
Show me links of Hagee making crude sexual references in a sermon. Show me links of Hagee giving an award to David Duke or promoting a white values system.
What's Hagee done that's been so bad? He supports Israel and doesn't like gays - is that the best you got?
PS Hagee is married to a Hispanic woman and his church is truly multi-cultural.
But thanks for playing.
"Hagee is married to a
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 14:37 ET by goldbar"Hagee is married to a Hispanic woman and his church is truly multi-cultural."
Herein lies the problem. Hagee is fiercely pro-amnesty and is in favor of eliminating the southern border and letting Mexicans flood into our country.
Hagee? Unfortunately,
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 14:40 ET by bassndudeHagee? Unfortunately, neither McCain nor I attend Hagee's church. And just like you Gold, he is entitled to his opinion,... unfortunately.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
and?
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 14:43 ET by candanceYou're comparing Hagee to Wright because he's pro-amnesty?
That's the best you can do??
More moronic gold! How in
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 14:15 ET by bassndudeMore moronic gold! How in the world can you compare Hagee, whom McCain has never attended his church, to Wright and a 20 year membership in Wrights church? 20 Years....
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
The candidate has been Victimized ?
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 12:15 ET by JayTeeIf he's a victim, it's the Church that did it to Obamarama. . . he who does not know what's going on in his own Church that he gave $ 22,000 to last year .
Mitt Romney had to STOP, and make a mandatory Religious Explanation SPEECH. Religion was made an Election issue.
How's he going to Run the Country, without realizing what's going on in New Orleans ? Iowa Corn Fields ? or the Church in the same Neighborhood he lives in ?
My Vote is NO, to his run for the Presidency. No, to David Duke, No to The Rev. GD Wright.
$22,000
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 12:44 ET by cvgbuckeyejaytee; That even speaks worse of Obama's character. $22,000 is a pitiful amount. I understand that he and his wife made over $1,500,000 last year. In that case, a tithe would have been $150,000 and he should have gifted even more than that!!!
Poor Barack
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 13:02 ET by QueenMumJust another example of a "poor black man" dominated by "rich white men"? If Obama is so smart, how come he can't see the dichotomy?
I am Queen Mum and I approved this message.
I think you're making a
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 18:30 ET by Indiana JoeI think you're making a false assumption, QM.
He CAN see the dichotomy.
He just thinks (or hopes) we CAN'T!
For decades, our
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 12:35 ET by maggieqpublicFor decades, our universities have accepted and encouraged the doctrine of black power. Liberal whites have lent tacit approval to the teachings of Stokely Carmichael and Bobby Seale and Angela Davis and Donald DeFreeze and Reverend Wright with his black liberation theology and on and on…. Umgawa! Black Power!
Now many of these same liberals will have to ask themselves if they are really comfortable having an apologist for this nasty little philosophy occupying the White House. The one-sided presentation by the Early Show shows me that the liberals at CBS have made their decision.
The Prophets used it in
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 13:03 ET by QueenMumThe Prophets used it in ancient Israel. The Disciples used it, Jesus called the Pharisees whitened sepulchres or whitened tombs."
Talk about cherry-picking! Jesus used this analogy in regard to the hypocrisy of the Pharisees - looking all clean and new on the outside, while rotting on the inside. It has nothing to do with anyone being white - unless the good reverend is trying to get across the point that white folks are hypocrites by race/nature. Are these black preachers counting on their congregants to be ignorant of the context of such passages? Or are these preachers just plain ignorant themselves?
I am Queen Mum and I approved this message.
Has anyone asked
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 13:04 ET by Jack BauerHas anyone asked Springfield's Reverend Lovejoy what he thinks yet?
I'm taking a different
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 13:20 ET by ConservativeRexI'm taking a different angle on this, what in the world is CBS doing talking about Jesus? This is new territory for them. You know for a fact they do not feel comfortable doing it. Christians are scary people, and fundamentalist Christians (which to them are everyone who isn't gay) are the scariest Christians of all!
So when they start sticking up for a church/preacher, you have to know somethings up. For some reason it just doesn't ring true. There must be some other kind of motive involved here....
Where does the Rev. Wright stand on inter-racial nooky?
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 13:43 ET by Jack BauerJust wondering.
Does anyone know whether the Reverend Wright's Church has any policy on sexual relations between the races? Married or otherwise.
Would he, for example, counsel against such a union?
No policy needed
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 13:48 ET by Mica the MagnificentI don't think an inter-racial couple would have the nerve to enter his church, Jack.
Do you take this white, oppressing, slave owning cracker to have and to hold . . . .
Mica -- LOL...
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 14:00 ET by Jack BauerMica -- LOL...
yes that's the boiler-plate vows of the Trinity Church in Chicago.
I only ask because, of course, in South Africa, the Apartheid system was founded on a ban on physical contact between races.
Mind you, those Boers were very big on the White Value System of the day.
Vote 4 change. Vote 4 anything. See Jack & Mr Shy's first campaign ad for the ONLY viable 3rd party candidate.
So has anyone done any research.....
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 14:36 ET by Prester John....on what kind of house Wright lives in since he is against the "middle class lifestyle"?
I saw that he drives a Prosche which is probably a good indicator of the house he lives in. I wonder if he is in Obama's neighborhood with the other $1,000,000 + homes?
Prester... Oh yeah, the
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 14:44 ET by bigtimerPrester...
Oh yeah, the msm has had pictures of the house they live in...where I live we call it a mansion...lol!
Btw...the were reporting on the Rezko $$$ and involvement in some of the house/adjoining property when showing this....Rezko's wife bought a plot adjoining this the same day or some such...then sold it to Obama.
too lazy to google it at the moment, but I am sure if you did you could see it...along with the info in detail.
Of course he's against the
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 14:50 ET by motherbeltOf course he's against the "middle-class lifestyle."
He wouldn't stoop that low.
Typical Liberal.
ROFL
Jesus and the Preachers
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 15:21 ET by iveseenitallI have some questions I think Jesus would have asked "preachers" like Wright, Sharpton, and Jackson:
Why are you talking secular politics in church?(and don't tell me its a "tradition")
Are you poor, or is it just your followers who are poor?
Are you rich? How did you come by it?
How have the lives of your followers been changed by your preaching?
Why is the ghetto still so full of drugs, crime, etc. after the past 30 years of your "preaching"?
Why do you hate the white man? Will you ever stop hating the white man?
Why do you encourage your followers to break the laws of this country?
Do you know how deep in Hell the Lord puts hypocrites? ( listen up, BO.)
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
isia... Excellent
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 15:25 ET by bigtimerisia...
Excellent questions, which we will never hear truthful answers to if we ever hear any...
....anyway...Amen brother to all of your post.
BT
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 15:50 ET by iveseenitallThanks, BT. I am just so angry that this entire scam continues in the country I love. This nation has done so much good. We have so many decent, good people who have been maligned by these charlatans. And the insulting lies continue in the most corrupt media I've ever seen. Barack Obama is a radical lefty, as is Hillary Clinton. McCain annoys me no end, but I guess we are stuck with him for now. Either Clinton or Obama will be a disaster for this nation.
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
segregation
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 17:21 ET by CatherwoodI didn't know they could stack it that high.
Wack-a- Mole
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 18:31 ET by the strugglerThis is gonna be the "Wack-a-Mole" story for the Dems.They"ll keep trying to plug the holes, but it ain't gonna work.Ha!
What is this "prophetic
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 18:42 ET by Indiana JoeWhat is this "prophetic tradition of the African-American church" this guy is babbling about? Is he claiming Wright is a prophet? Or that all black preachers are prophets? And to compare him in any way to Jesus!
This apologist for a hateful racist makes me sick!
Butts gives new meaning to the phrase "talking out your a**!"
You folks really have this
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 20:18 ET by ckc1227You folks really have this stuff all wrong. Apparently, racism and hatred of America is preached all the time in black churches in America, so this is no big deal. Really, it isn"t.
Good point....
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 20:20 ET by MightyMouthSo who is keeping racism alive? uh... those who preach it!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Amber Alert !! Sharpton, Jackson missing!!
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 20:28 ET by Cool ArrowAnybody else notice the complete absence of Sharpton and Jackson in this whole "dialogue"?
What's up with that? These hucksters don't usually skip out on an opportunity to plead the cause of their victims.
♣ a seal
CA
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 20:40 ET by MightyMouthThey are waiting for Obama to be thrown under the buss so they can start the riots...Cha Ching! (just a guess)
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Cool, they are probably hanging with "Rev." Wright.
Mon, 03/17/2008 - 20:44 ET by R D HelmWherever he is at the moment as, apparently, he has fallen off the planet.
LOL-Cuba, perhaps?
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!