Huckabee Tackles Romney for Team McCain

Photo of Mark Finkelstein.
By Mark Finkelstein | February 3, 2008 - 17:43 ET

On this Super Sunday, it's fitting I suppose that Mike Huckabee would be out there blocking and tackling for Team McCain. Appearing on this morning's Today show, the former Arkansas governor made a pro forma claim that he's still running for president and not the veep slot. But Huckabee certainly seemed to be acting as what Mark Steyn described in a recent Hugh Hewitt interview as McCain's "wing man."

Consider Huckabee's reply to a question from Sunday co-host Jenna Wolfe [a resident, coincidentally, of Chappaqua, NY, home to Bill and Hillary.]
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JENNA WOLFE: Governor, Mitt Romney said that evangelicals who vote for you would basically be handing the party's nomination over to a very liberal John McCain. I see you're smiling there. What is your reaction to that?

MIKE HUCKABEE: Well I think he's got it just a little bit wrong. People who vote for Mitt Romney might be handing it over to John McCain. But let's be fair. John McCain is not a liberal. I think that's nonsense. One of the reasons Mitt Romney's campaign has not been able to get traction even though he spent $100 million is that statements like that are ludicrous. John McCain and I differ on immigration; we differ on stem-cell research; we differ on the human-life amendment. So there's some areas where we're different. But to call him a liberal is a pretty big stretch, especially from a guy who still believes in gun control, who's a recent convert to the pro-life movement, who still has a real problem figuring out where he stands on a host of issues. I just think that's ludicrous, and that's why we feel like we're going into this, if it is a two-man race, it's John McCain and Mike Huckabee.
Just how liberal John McCain is or isn't [and I would say he holds liberal positions on, among other issues, immigration, taxes, ANWR, campaign-finance and global warming] can be debated. But if Huckabee is truly trying to defeat John McCain, why would he spend his time defending McCain against Romney's criticism? I'd say the Arkansan doth protest too much. It certainly seems he's in this for whatever he can get from McCain.

Aside: Romney has racked up wins in Michigan, Nevada, Wyoming and Maine, while Huckabee ever since Iowa, with the excepton of SC where he finished a competitive second, has been a distant also-ran. So if Romney "has not been able to get traction," you'd have to say that Huck is stuck in reverse.

—Mark Finkelstein is a NewsBusters contributing editor and host of Right Angle. Contact him at mark@gunhill.net.

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"But if Mike Huckabee is truly trying to defeat John McCain..."

"why would he spend his time defending McCain against Romney's criticism?"

That's too logical a question for the Huckster and his supporters, Mark.   What he's doing is obvious to the world.

As to the why, I have to disagree with those who think he's doing it in hopes of getting some kind of "appointment."   He's doing it for religion and religion only.

Hi RJ - I can't say I agree there

Just because some of Huckabee's supporters are anti-morman doesn't mean he is.

Dee...

Dee...

Huck is the guy who asked "Don't Mormons believe Jesus and the devil are brothers?"

He pretended it was an innocent question, but I don't believe it was; he wanted to get that "out there."  I'm with RJ on this.....

Right, motherbelt

Early on, Huckabee laid out his religious objections fairly openly (and with a pretend innocence), but once he made sure his followers understood his position, he backed off.

motherbelt - I didn't know about that

It is pretty low if he did say that.

Yes he did. Here is the Fox

Yes he did. Here is the Fox story on it.

I thought I remembered seeing video of it at the time, but I can't find it now.

I'm confused too

Though Huckabee has gotten plenty of things wrong the 'confusion' about Mormon's belief on Satan and Jesus is understandable.

Take the following excerpt from their web site: "A Savior and Leader
Was Needed When the plan for our salvation was presented to us in the
spirit world, we were so happy that we shouted for joy (see Job 38:7).
We understood that we would have to leave our heavenly home for a time.
We would not live in the presence of our heavenly parents. While we
were away from them, all of us would sin and some of us would lose our
way. Our Heavenly Father knew and loved each one of us. He knew we
would need help, so he planned a way to help us. We needed a Savior to
pay for our sins and teach us how to return to our Heavenly Father. Our
Father said, "Whom shall I send?" (Abraham 3:27). Two of our brothers
offered to help. Our oldest brother, Jesus Christ, who was then called
Jehovah, said, "Here am I, send me" (Abraham 3:27). Jesus was willing
to come to the earth, give his life for us, and take upon himself our
sins. He, like our Heavenly Father, wanted us to choose whether we
would obey Heavenly Father's commandments. He knew we must be free to
choose in order to prove ourselves worthy of exaltation. Jesus said,
"Father, thy will be done, and the glory be thine forever" (Moses 4:2).
Satan, who was called Lucifer, also came, saying, "Behold, here am I,
send me, I will be thy son, and I will redeem all mankind, that one
soul shall not be lost, and surely I will do it; wherefore give me
thine honor" (Moses 4:1). Satan wanted to force us all to do his will.
Under his plan, we would not be allowed to choose. He would take away
the freedom of choice that our Father had given us. Satan wanted to
have all the honor for our salvation." (http://www.lds.org/library/display/0,4945,11-1-13-

Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers and we were all born as
siblings in heaven to them both, (Mormon Doctrine, p. 163.)

 

Below are two Mormon blog sites which after a length explanation state to effect Jesus and Satan are 'spiritual' brothers, which makes it pretty confusing to me too.

http://www.lightplan...

http://onlymormon.bl...

We had that discussion

We had that discussion before. The point is: why did Huckabee make it a point to bring that up? Because he knew it would "put off" a lot of evangelicals; they wouldn't care what the "reasoning" behind the statement was, or if his "confusion" was "understandable." He knew a lot of people would find the idea repugnant.

New here sorry for repost

New here sorry for repost then

Sorry, onlybeef... I didn't

Sorry, onlybeef... I didn't mean it as a rebuke. I just meant that in my opinion the reasoning behind the misunderstanding was secondary to Huckabee's apparent inention to make it into a black mark against Romney.

I was trying to be brief. Please don't let my heavy-handed comment discourage you from posting and contributing here... we are always glad to have new voices.

And a belated "Welcome!"

 

Ending the Mormon Jesus and Satan Brother Myth

Mormons believe that God is the father of all. Thus technically they could be considered brothers, one GOOD (Jesus) the other BAD (Satan). They clearly worship the GOOD - Jesus and God. Anything else is dishonest.

This is no different then Christians believing all men are brothers and it is your job to help those who have gone astray find the right path. It would be just as ignorant to say that Christians idiolize criminals because you consider them brothers who lost their way and want to help them.

Huckabee knew exactly what he was doing by playing on the fears of the ignorant who do not seek to learn the truth but instead latch on to ridiculous fears. I cannot believe I am defending the Mormon Religion which I find to be ridiculous in many ways but not dangerous or evil. If anything Mormons are excessive, they don't smoke, drink or do drugs. Hardly a bad role model for Kids and Morality.


Huckabee Is Not Alone in Ignorance on Mormonism

"It’s an attack question," Mr. Gordon said, “because it starts with a kernel of truth and shapes it into something that most Mormons wouldn’t recognize about their faith.”

In Mormon theology, God is literally the father of all beings, and all beings once existed in a “premortal” state as “spirit beings,” said Robert L. Millet a professor of religion at Brigham Young University, a Mormon institution in Provo, Utah. Jesus was God’s first-born son, and everyone who came after that, including Satan could be considered the siblings of Jesus, he said.

“Latter-day Saints believe that all of us, Christ included, existed in a premortal existence, as spirits,” Mr. Millet said. “Yes, Jesus and Lucifer were in that premortal existence, together. But what we need to make very clear is that Jesus was God and there was never a time when Jesus and
Lucifer were on the same plane.”

To say Jesus and Satan were brothers, Mr. Gordon said, is like saying, “Do you know you’re related to Adolf Hitler because we’re all part of the same family of man?”

"We believe, as other Christians believe and as Paul wrote, that God is the father of all," said the spokeswoman, Kim Farah. "That means that all beings were created by God and are his spirit children. Christ, on the other hand, was the only begotten in the flesh and we worship him as the son of God and the savior of mankind. Satan is the exact opposite of who Christ is and what he stands for."


Fine you don't agree with it but that is much different then lying and implying they worship the Devil.

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Yeah Pop Tech - It's like saying Chrisitians believe that Satan

Is an Angel. It's technically true but he's a fallen Angel.

Christian Voters

So do you think it matters to Christians that a lot of the stuff that Mormons teach about Jesus is not in the Bible?

Presidental elections are not about theological pi$$ing contests

But that's exactly what Huckabee and his supporters have tried to make it.

The ONLY reason Huckebee has stayed in the contest is that Romney is a Mormon.   He's running for Head Bigot.

Mormophobia

So, you don't think it could have anything to do with Romney having been pro-gun control, pro-choice, pro-amnesty, or pro-taxes...(excuse me, pro-fees)?

Well, at least you've named it properly, Britcom

"Mormonphobia" is exactly what underlies both Huckabee and many of his evangelical supporters.

At the beginning of his campaign, Huckabee made it clear, with his religious "questions" and references, how he felt about Mormons. At the same time, anti-Mormon evangelicals on this board and elsewhere began attacking Romney based on his religion.

Once that message got out, Huckabee and the rest of the anti-Mormon crowd changed tactics and began trumping up phony "issues", like the phony "fee-tax" non-issue you reference above. It doesn't matter how clearly and thoroughly your positions are refuted and defeated in logical argument, you just keep repeating the same things over and over....because you understand that the underlying message of Mormonphobia remains.

 

"...and who expended all of his energies on preserving his opinions from contaminaton..."   -Michael Chabon,  "Gentlemen of the Road"

Wow, I didn't know I understood that.

I am a Hunter supporter who came over to Huckabee when Hunter endorsed him. Hunter said he couldn't support Romney because of the China deal Romney has going with Bain Capital.

Do you think Hunter is Mormophobic too?

It shouldn't bother Christians Britcom

He's not trying to convert anyone. He's not running for spiritual leader and there is nothing he would do that would impact Christians negatively.

wouldn't impact Christians negatively...

Suppose Romney were to have an interest in signing legislation that would make descriminating against homosexuals illegal? Would that impact Christians negativly in their view.

If McCain wins it's going to be from dirty tricks

like splitting the vote, turning states into winner take all and bringing up unsubstantiated bogus claims on the eve of an election. Romney would be way ahead if it were a two man race. McCain only has mythical support that has been manufactured by the media. He has very little real support in $'s and he wouldn't even be ahead if it were not for the winner take all thing.

I like Huckabee, and would love to see him on the ticket with Romney, but if he ends up causing McCain to win, I'll lose a lot of respect for him.
I think people are wising up to the trickery going on and Romney is going to pull ahead after Super Tues.

LOL @ Huck

Yeah, McCain is against the Bible on stem-cell research and a pro-life amendment....but other than that he's conservative.

Apparently telling lies about Mitt Romney is endorsed by the Bible. And saying that the earth will be overcome with massive flooding - even though God told Noah otherwise - is endorsed by the Bible. And opposing a ban on gay marriage is endorsed by the Bible. And personally attacking Jerry Falwell is endorsed by the Bible. And saying "f--- you" on the Senate floor is endorsed by the Bible.

Nah, I just can't see where people say McCain is no conservative.

Thanks for clearing that up Mr. Preacher Man.

 

This is all too reminiscent of Caiaphas being in cahoots with the Romans. Whatever it takes to look out for #1.

"And saying "f--- you" on

"And saying "f--- you" on the Senate floor is endorsed by the Bible."

The Bible probably doesn't endorse uttering such any where. I, however am amazed that it is not uttered more often on the Senate floor, on the floor in the House, in the offices...

Let's just be thankful I have no desire to be a DC denizen. I'm quite sure that I would make that phrase common parlance during any time I spent around any of those supposed to uphold our interests in DC.

RESTLESS 1,

Lol-Actually, that is what I am hoping my fellow real conservatives are going to rise up and tell McClinton on Tuesday.

One can only hope.

None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free. -J.W. von Goethe

Don't you think it would be

Don't you think it would be sort of newsworthy to see one of the so-called 'journalists' have the balls to directly ask Huckabilly if he has approached, or been approached by the McAmnesty campaign regarding any VP or cabinet position in the McXxx presidency?

Since every one of the journalists I have seen thus far is totally in the tank for McCain, I won't hold my breath to see this happen.

Since it depends on what

Since it depends on what the meaning of the word 'he' is, I amend my post above to define the word 'he' as meaning Huckabilly himself or ANYONE associated with him or his campaign.

I assume his bible tells him not to lie, but leaves open the option of strictly interpreting the words of my question.

Huck can continue to spin

Huck can continue to spin all of the obvious until he is blue in the face, he is in bed with McCain, for whatever position he is given...period.

Some day books will be written on what went on behind the scenes...I hope sooner rather than later.

Story behind the story

Yes, and I look foward to learning about the story behind the story in those books. That's always the most interesting part of the political drama. All we have now are shadows on the wall of the cave. They are interesting, but only shadows. It's fun guessing, though.

 

Liberal's Basic Rule For Discourse: I don't care if you agree with my premises, but I demand that you agree with my conclusions.

Is it just me, or is John

Is it just me, or is John McCain turning into Grampa Simpson.

Only less lovable and more nutty?

Grampa: Whenever I'm confused, I just check my underwear. It holds the answer to all the important questions.

Check out my exclusive edit of BBC News America's interview with Mrs Clinton: It's news to me!

Huckabee Supporters For Gay Rights?

I had no idea Huckabee Supporters were pushing the gay rights agenda? At least we know where they stand on the issues!

Gay Republicans Flock To McCain (The New York Sun)

"I think that gay marriage should be allowed if there's a ceremony kind of thing, if you wanna call it that. I don't have any problem with that." - John McCain

McCain: Same-sex marriage ban is un-Republican (CNN)

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I have my doubts as to

I have my doubts as to whether or not I'll bother voting in the General Election if McCain gets the nomination.  However, if he gets the nomination and makes this disgusting, manipulative scumbag his running mate, I won't stay away...I'll vote for the Democrat.  Looks like we're going to have to destroy the party to save it. 

Hard truth

I hope I don't get a shower of boos here, but Huck has a point. I know the popular sentiment here is that Romney is the only conservative left in the race, but he is no conservative. He raised fees like crazy in Mass and instituted universal health care, so he's not an economic conservative. He changed all of his social positions from the leftist positions he had as governor, so he's not socially conservative. We should just face the facts: there are no conservatives in the race. We just have to pick the lesser of three evils...

That's the problem..

I think you've put your finger on an iimportant issue. It's a matter of chosing the lesser of two evils. Neither candidate makes me want to go WHOOPIE!!!!!!!!! Romney is just more tolerable.

The use of the presidential veto has been on my mind lately. I can't even imagine McCain casting a veto for anything the D's propose. He's cast too many votes WITH the D's and against Republican proposals in the past. He's got a record there. But I can see Romney casting a veto on, say, some crazy tax scheme the D's come up with.

Liberal's Basic Rule For Discourse: I don't care if you agree with my premises, but I demand that you agree with my conclusions.

I just caught the tail end

I just caught the tail end of Fox News Sunday, the panel discussion. Bill Kristol was saying that all the conservatives who didn't pull for Romney early on, waited to see what would happen with Thompson and Giuliani, they sat back and are now all sort of whining because it looks like McCain is going to be the candidate. And that anyone who thought Rudy was going to stop McCain in Florida was just nuts (pretty much, not an exact quote LOL). And now it looks like McCain is going to be the candidate. :-(

  I agree with that

  I agree with that assessment.  Us news/political junkies don't realize the political vaccum that Mr. and Mrs Average American lives in.  The Republicans had all these relative unknowns running and then falling by the wayside.  There was no universal clamor for any one of these guys that broke through the fog of most peoples everyday living so they started pulling the handle for the one name they recognize.  And that has brought us to where we are today.

  Our nominee that the whole party has to support may end up being selected by a small per centage of the voters.  There needs to be a runoff system between the two top vote getters when there are more than two candidates.  This could be done by selecting a large state or two that after however many primaries no candidate is getting at least say 40 per cent of the popular vote then the top two candidate square off and may the best candidate win.

 

There was no universal

There was no universal clamor for any one of these guys that broke
through the fog of most peoples everyday living so they started pulling
the handle for the one name they recognize.

That's an excellent way of putting it, MidAmerica! I never thought of it that way. Rudy's name was familiar too, but he started kind of late and didn't come out firing on all cylinders. McCain's just sort of "been there" all along.

I think you have a point.

Hope it not too late

I hope it's not too late to turn it around but, yea, I agree, McCain looks like he's going to get the nomination. Probably the lesson for R's and Conservatives is to get some energy going early in the process, and not sit back. If you don't start going early on in the process, the Feds take away your license to whine about outcomes. ;+}

There seems to be a lot of disarray in the R camp this time around. More than usual. Same with the D's. I'm thinking there is a deep cultural sea change going on we haven't quite got a grip on yet, and it's impacting the political landscape (and a bunch of other stuff). What is it? Old vs young? Intergenerational thing? Normal cycle of cultural change? Speeded up ying and yang? I dunno.

Liberal's Basic Rule For Discourse: I don't care if you agree with my premises, but I demand that you agree with my conclusions.

well celator

If you don't start going early on in the process, the Feds take away your license to whine about outcomes

Considering the fact that my state has yet to vote on a single candidate and no one has ever called me to participate in a poll, there isn't much more I can do than spread the word about things.

I'm of the same mind,

The use of the presidential veto has been on my mind lately. I can't
even imagine McCain casting a veto for anything the D's propose. -
celator

I'm of the same mind. Someone yesterday said at least he won't be in the Senate to conspire with Feingold, or Kennedy or anyone else. I said yes, but they will always conspire, and a President McCain would probably sign whatever they send him.

Yep

Yep, that seems very likely. It's McCain's thought process I can't get a grip on, and that speaks to his peculiar temperament. Just not comfortable with the guy.

Liberal's Basic Rule For Discourse: I don't care if you agree with my premises, but I demand that you agree with my conclusions.

No boos here, but Romney did

No boos here, but Romney did answer this charge in the debate. Most of the fees hadn't changed in a very, very long time, and no longer represented the normal rate one would expect to pay. No one likes to see anything go up in price, but I'll take raising fees over raising taxes all day long.

→ Fees

Fees vs Taxes.  What's the difference?

♣ a seal

Well Cool, you see, a fee is

Well Cool, you see, a fee is a set amount one must involuntarily pay for some sort of service or good, and a tax is a set amount one must pay, involuntarily for... hmmmm, I see your point ;>)

Hmmmm

Fee's = Taxes (there is no difference) only how there implimented

"When you can't make them see the light, make them feel the heat"         R. Reagan

OK, if it costs a state $50

OK, if it costs a state $50 to give you a driver's license and they are charging only $25, where should the remainder come from, thin air? Somebody has to pay for the increase in wages, building rent, etc. that have increased in the last 20 years or so. I don't pay $0.19 for bananas any more. It's closer to $0.69.

→ Fair enough Hermano

So you raise the fee.  I still don't see how it's different from a tax.

The same logic applied to Romney's "fees" can be applied to the "taxes" Huckabee and his legislature raised.  If you've ever driven through Arkansas, you probably know they have some of the worst roads in the country.  And Arkansas rated something like 39th among states in quality of education.  Ok, he improved the roads and got the schools ranked somewhere near the top 10 and his constituents rewarded him with reelection and he left after 10 years with something like a 55% approval rating.

The metoods by which both candidates raised revenue were fair enough.  What I consider unfair is one candidate claiming the other raised taxes while taking semantic cover behind something as transparent as "fees.

Fees get passed on to the consumer just the same as school taxes get passed along to the apartment dweller through rent increases.

♣ a seal

They both pay for government

They both pay for government programs, yes. But taxes are levied to pay for programs that the government deems necessary. Fees are a per-use thing - just like if I went and bought a sandwich or widget. If I don't eat the sandwich, why should I pay for it? I agree, in principle, that since they support government programs they could be considered "taxes." If a driver's license program, for example, was set up to pay for the program based on general tax revenue, then I would agree that either a fee applied to or raised, would effectively be a tax increase. As far as I know, programs of this nature are paid for solely from the revenue they generate. If I consider that any money going into a government-run program a tax, then a fee would be a tax. But regardless, someone has to pay for it. And I KNOW what my money is buying.

In my state

In my state. which has gifted its residents with the highest total tax burden in the nation, the legislature has been adding fees to everything for several years. This lets them brag about creating "tax reform", as they like to tell us. But we asked them for tax reduction. Guess the message to them got garbled up. Fees are a form of tax, for sure. It's more money taken from our pockets.

Liberal's Basic Rule For Discourse: I don't care if you agree with my premises, but I demand that you agree with my conclusions.

Romney is a Conservative


Romney: Extend the Bush Tax Cuts (Video) (2min)
Romney Is First To Sign No Tax Pledge (The New York Sun)

Romney Vetoed More Than 800 Budget Line-Items (707 were overturned by the liberal Massachusetts Legislature)

- Romney convinced the unfriendly State Legislature to grant him unilateral power to make budget cuts in 2003
- Romney unveiled $343 million in cuts to cities, healthcare, and state agencies in 2003
- Romney successfully consolidated the social service and public health bureaucracy in 2003
- Romney eliminated half of the executive branch's press positions, saving $1.2 million in 2003
- Romney successfully forced Medicaid recipients to make co-payments for some services in 2003
- Romney successfully pushed for legislation forcing new state workers to contribute 25% of their health insurance costs in 2003
- Romney proposed to revolutionize the Massachusetts state pension system by moving it to a defined contribution system in 2003
- Romney pushed to revamp the Pacheco Law, a union-backed measure that makes it nearly impossible to privatize state services in 2003
- Romney called for the privatization of the University of Massachusetts medical school in 2003
- Romney proposed measures to eliminate civil service protection for all municipal workers except police and firefighters and exempt low-cost public construction jobs from the state's wage law in 2003
- Romney proposed easing pricing regulations on Massachusetts retailers in 2003
- Romney Vetoed A Provision That Would Have Renewed A Prescription Drug Tax in 2003
- Romney proposed easing decades-old state regulations on wetlands in 2004
- Romney Vetoed Retroactive Pay Increases For State Employees in 2004
- Romney proposed cutting the state's income-tax rate from 5.3% to 5.0% in 2004, 2005 and 2006
- Romney succeeded in passing a bill preventing the capital gains tax from being applied retroactively in 2005
- Romney signed legislation that provided property tax relief to seniors in 2005
- Romney signed legislation establishing a two-day tax-free shopping holiday in 2005
- Romney fought for welfare legislation increasing the number of hours each week recipients must work and establishing a five-year limit for receiving benefits in 2005
- Romney aggressively pushed to deregulate Massachusetts' "Soviet-style" auto insurance industry in 2005
- Romney Vetoed a bill limiting the ability of out-of-state wineries to ship directly to Massachusetts consumers, calling the legislation "anti-consumer" in 2005
- Romney used his emergency fiscal powers to make $425 million worth of cuts in 2006
- Romney Vetoed the employer mandate that requires businesses with 11 or more full-time employees to provide health insurance in 2006
- Romney Vetoed an increase in the minimum wage from $6.75 to $8.00 in 2006
- Romney Signed a bill streamlining the state's cumbersome permitting process for new businesses in 2006
- Romney Line-Item Vetoed $100,000 For A Gazebo On Sunset Lake In Braintree in 2006
- Romney Vetoed $150,000 For The University Of Massachusetts To Study The Winter Moth in 2006
- Romney Vetoed $4 Million To Research The Efficiency Of The Internal Combustion Engine in 2006
- Romney has ruled out the option of raising Social Security taxes, embraced the idea of reducing the growth rate of future benefits, and supports personal accounts in 2007

Romney increased fees amounted to $260 million a year, and elimination of corporate tax "loopholes" brought in another $174 million a year. He never raised taxes

He is also a social conservative. He clearly said when he was running for governor that he was personally against abortion but would not do anything to change the current pro-choice law. All of his actions as governor demonstrate a Pro-life position:

Romney: "Marriage is Between a Man and a Woman" (Video) (1min)
Romney Fights For Marriage Vote (Video) (3min)
2003 - Massachusetts Governor Vows to Pursue Marriage Amendment (USAToday)
2004 - Romney Urges Constitutional Ban on Same Sex Marriage (USAToday)
One Man, One Woman (The Wall Street Journal)
Romney Announces Abstinence Education Program (Boston News)

Mass. Governor Mitt Romney Vetoes embryonic Stem-Cell Bill (FOXNews)
Mitt Romney Warns of 'Orwellian' Stem Cell Research (NewsMax)

"It is wrong to allow science to take an assembly-line approach to the production of human embryos, the creation of which will be rooted in experimentation and destruction" - Mitt Romney

Mass. Governor Mitt Romney Vetoes Emergency Contraception Bill (FOXNews)
Mitt Romney: Why I Vetoed Contraception Bill (Boston Globe)

To claim otherwise is simply dishonest. This is what anyone realizes who researched him.

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Romulan Conservatism...

Hey, Mitt Romney is a Real Conservative we are told. But is he really a
true believer? I wondered, so I did a little checking. Good thing we
have YouTube. :^)

Romney's "Conservative" positions explained, IN HIS OWN WORDS CAUGHT ON VIDEO.

(h/t YouTube)

 

Repetitive postings of lies and half-truths

Doesn't make them true, Britcom. As Popular Tech so clearly proved in response to ths same C&P elsewhere, nothing you said can be supported.

Romney for or against Gay Rights?

So, other than Gay Marriage, is Romney still for Gay Rights? Or has he adopted a more conservative position on that?

Romney on Gay Rights

If you consider allowing homosexuals hospital visitation rights then YES he is for "gay rights". I would call it common sense. He is completely opposed and always has been to gay marriage, yet it does not stop the simple minded ignorant sheep from lying about his position.

Romney: "Marriage is Between a Man and a Woman" (Video) (1min)
Romney Fights For Marriage Vote (Video) (3min)
2003 - Massachusetts Governor Vows to Pursue Marriage Amendment (USAToday)
2004 - Romney Urges Constitutional Ban on Same Sex Marriage (USAToday)

Romney is so hardcore Pro-Gay Rights he wrote this...

One Man, One Woman - A Citizen's Guide to Protecting Marriage (The Wall Street Journal)

Which lead to this...

Eleven States Ban Gay Marriage (FOXNews)

Wow! Talk about being Pro-Gay rights. He is so hardcore pro-gay rights that they are endorsing McCain! What planet are you people on?

Gay Republicans Flock To McCain (The New York Sun)

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My question was: "other than Gay Marriage"

Who can visit someone in the hospital is a hospital policy, not a public policy. I don't see anyone trying enact a law that bans gays from hospital visits.

For example: Does Mitt Romney still support Gay adoption, what about Civil Unions and homosexual sex education in public schools?

Wrong Britcom

Because hospital visits are already based on legalities (i.e. next-of-kin status, who is considered "family", etc) it also has to be resolved legally.

Does Mitt Romney still support...

Does Mitt Romney still support Gay adoption, what about Civil Unions and homosexual sex education in public schools?

Britcom... He did in 94'

Britcom...

He did in 94' when he was running for the Senate. 

The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.

Congratulations, Clear and Britcom

...for being born into perfection.     How nice for you that you didn't have to grow or change.   That makes it easy to condemn others, right?

 

"We've been discovering that evangelicals aren't as conservative as we thought."   -Carlson Tucker  

 

RJ does he support Gay Adoptions...

So, are you saying that Romney no longer supports Gay adoptions, Civil Unions, and homosexual sex education?

Yes, I am, Britcom

Do you have evidence to the contrary?

 

"I really like Mike Huckabee."  -uber lib Mika Brezinski

Romney's Log Cabin Club Letter (I found it!)

Gay-rights groups have been circulating a letter Romney
wrote to the Log Cabin Club, an organization for gay and lesbian
Republicans, during his unsuccessful 1994 race the Senate. In the
letter, Romney promised to be a stronger crusader for gay rights than
Ted Kennedy, the liberal stalwart he was seeking to unseat that year.

"If we are to achieve the goals we share, we must make equality for
gays and lesbians a mainstream concern," Romney wrote. "My opponent
cannot do this. I can and will." He vowed to support federal
legislation prohibiting discrimination against homosexuals in
employment, housing, and credit

Source: The American Spectator More >>

***

"In seeking the support of the Log Cabin Republican Club, Romney wrote them a letter promising that 'as we seek to establish full equality for America's gay and lesbian citizens, I will provide more effective leadership than my opponent.'[His opponent at the time was Sen. Ted Kennedy, perhaps the foremost advocate of homosexual rights in the U.S. Senate.] - Boston Globe, 10/17/1994


Read Romney's letter to Log Cabin Club (Adobe Acrobat format)

{Note: If the link goes dead, as several have, let me know, I have downloaded a copy for safe keeping}

Source: MassResistance More >>

***

On why the gay community should support Romney
over Kennedy, given Kennedy’s record of supporting both civil rights
and the gay community:

[Romney:] "Well, I think you’re partially right
in characterizing Ted Kennedy as supportive of the gay community, and I
respect the work and efforts he’s made on behalf of the gay community
and for civil rights more generally, and I would continue that fight.

"There’s something to be said for having a Republican who supports civil rights
in this broader context, including sexual orientation. When Ted Kennedy
speaks on gay rights, he’s seen as an extremist. When Mitt Romney
speaks on gay rights he’s seen as a centrist and a moderate. It’s a
little like if Eugene McCarthy was arguing in favor of recognizing
China, people would have called him a nut. But when Richard Nixon does
it, it becomes reasonable. When Ted says it, it’s extreme; when I say
it, it’s mainstream.

"I think the gay community needs more
support from the Republican Party and I would be a voice in the
Republican Party to foster anti-discrimination efforts.

"The other thing I should say is that the gay community and the members of
it that are friends of mine that I’ve talked to don’t vote solely on
the basis of gay rights issues. They’re also very concerned about a $4
trillion national debt, a failing school system, a welfare system
that’s out of whack and a criminal justice system that isn’t working. I
believe that while I would further the efforts Ted Kennedy has led, I
would also lead the country in new and far more positive ways in taxing
and spending, welfare reform, criminal justice and education. That’s
why I believe many gay and lesbian individuals will support my
candidacy and do support my candidacy.

"I have several friends
in the gay community who are supporters, who are working in my
campaign. I think they believe I would be a better senator."

***

On whether he’d go beyond merely accepting gay people and advocating for the rights of lesbians and gay men:

[Romney:] "The answer is yes. When I speak of free agency, I don’t just mean that each
person can do what they want to do, I mean that our society should
allow people to make their own choices and live by their own beliefs.
People of integrity don’t force their beliefs on others, they make sure
that others can live by different beliefs they may have. That’s the
great thing about this country: it was founded to allow people to
follow beliefs of their own conscience. I will work and have worked to
fight discrimination and to assure each American equal opportunity.
You’ll see that, for instance, in my relations in the workplace. ...

"For a number of years, I was chief executive at Bain and Co. It’s an
environment that fosters openness and fights discrimination. I believe
it is a good place for gay and lesbian individuals to work. I know of
nothing in our workplace that doesn’t encourage promotion and
compensation based on performance, without regard to personal
differences, such as sexual orientation. I believe that my record, my
life, is a clear indication of my support and insistence on
anti-discrimination and on efforts to assure equal rights for all."

***

On whether he would have supported Helms’s
amendment to the 1994 Elementary and Secondary Education Act to ban
federal funding to public schools that encourage or support
"homosexuality as a positive lifestyle alternative":

[Romney:] "I would have opposed that amendment. I don’t think the federal government
has any business dictating to local school boards what their curriculum
or practices should be. I think that’s a dangerous precedent in
general. I would have opposed that. It also grossly misunderstands the
gay community by insinuating that there’s an attempt to proselytize a
gay lifestyle on the part of the gay community. I think it’s
wrong-headed and unfortunate and hurts the party by being identified
with the Republican party."

Source: BayWindows More >>

Works with the Anti-Mormon Bigots - I Mean Huckabee Supporters

1. He raised fees to match the cost of the service provided which LOWERS taxes by not subsidizing them. The fees increases amounted to $260 million a year not the other ridiculous amounts.

2. He literally said that they should be allowed to APPLY FOR CITIZENSHIP - do you know what that means? Anyone that is not a citizen can apply. This has nothing to do with Amnesty.

3. Having tough gun laws on say the MISUSE of guns does not make you pro-gun control.

4. That was redited as was the whole clip to cut off and manipulated what he said. He in no way supports quotas or that the government should impose standards on hiring by private enterprises or by the government. He was talking about a private, information oriented approach to seeking diversity.

5. Um, what part of that did you not understand about China? That is not a Pro-China position that is a realitic position.

6. He invested in RUSSIAN COMPANIES! By this logic everytime you buy gas from a Lukoil gas station you are supporting Iran. Give me a break.

7. Did you not just hear him say he supports the Boy Scouts of America's Decision to decide who it wants to allow in?

8. He clearly says he is "PERSONALLY PRO-LIFE BUT DOES NOT IMPOSE HIS BELIEFS ON OTHERS". Hardly a raving Pro-Choice position.

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

I don't understand...


1. He raised fees to match the cost of the service provided which
LOWERS taxes by not subsidizing them. The fees increases amounted to
$260 million a year not the other ridiculous amounts.


Okay, so he raised fees by $260 million per year... so then if he were president, it would be okay with you if he raised Federal fees in a similar way?

2. He literally said that they should be allowed to APPLY FOR
CITIZENSHIP - do you know what that means? Anyone that is not a citizen
can apply. This has nothing to do with Amnesty.


So, illegal aliens don't have to be deported, but they can apply for citizenship, and presumably be granted it, and what happens to them while we are waiting for them to get citizenship? Do they keep their jobs? Do we prosecute their bosses for hiring them? Do we let their kids stay in school? Do we give them Social Security benefits?

3. Having tough gun laws on say the MISUSE of guns does not make you pro-gun control.


Some people believe wanting any gun laws make you pro-gun control. So what would you consider a "misuse" of a gun?

4. That was redited as was the whole clip to cut off and manipulated
what he said. He in no way supports quotas or that the government
should impose standards on hiring by private enterprises or by the
government. He was talking about a private, information oriented
approach to seeking diversity.


So Romney is pro-diversity. But isn't that a liberal idea? Wouldn't it be better for business if you hired the best person for the job, even if it meant that the management of your company might consist of all white Anglo-Saxon-protestant men?

5. Um, what part of that did you not understand about China? That is not a Pro-China position that is a realitic position.


I did not understand the part about helping Americans to do business with a Communist Dictatorship that doesn't allow its citizens freedom of Religion, Press, Speech, Assembly, Unreasonable search and seizure, or the right to life, liberty, or property. Do you think Romney wants to do business with Cuba too?

6. He invested in RUSSIAN COMPANIES! By this logic everytime you buy
gas from a Lukoil gas station you are supporting Iran...


Well... yes.

7. Did you not just hear him say he supports the Boy Scouts of America's Decision to decide who it wants to allow in?


Why would Romney say,"I feel that all people should be allowed to participate in the Boy Scouts regardless of their sexual orientation" if he is a conservative? Does he still believe this, or has he changed his mind on this too?

8. He clearly says he is "PERSONALLY PRO-LIFE BUT DOES NOT IMPOSE HIS BELIEFS ON OTHERS". Hardly a raving Pro-Choice position.


Okay, so Romney would not "personally" have an abortion, but what about the right to life for the unborn? Clearly he did not express a right to life position. Isn't that just a samantic cover up for being pro-choice? Doesn't Hillary maintain that same position? Isn't that really a liberal view of abortion?

The Reality

"Okay, so he raised fees by $260 million per year... so then if he were
president, it would be okay with you if he raised Federal fees in a
similar way?
"

If those Federal Fees did not match their costs of course! I would also know he would want to reduce their costs and eliminate any unnecessary fees. See the problem with those who do not understand economics or never ran a business they cannot comprehend how this lowers taxes.

"So, illegal aliens don't have to be deported, but they can apply for
citizenship, and presumably be granted it, and what happens to them
while we are waiting for them to get citizenship? Do they keep their
jobs? Do we prosecute their bosses for hiring them? Do we let their
kids stay in school? Do we give them Social Security benefits?"

He never said they do not have to be deported he said they can apply to be citizens. Stating things he did not say is lying. Romney wants to make sure the only ones employed are American Citizens here legally. Bosses who hired illegals would be severly fined and the illegals deport themselves. Their kids should not be allowed to stay in school and they should not get social security benefits.

"Some people believe wanting any gun laws make you pro-gun control. So what would you consider a "misuse" of a gun?"

I guess we should just be able to shoot guns off in the middle of a movie in public and wave them at kids going to school while laughing. You figure out what misuse would mean.

"So Romney is pro-diversity. But isn't that a liberal idea? Wouldn't it
be better for business if you hired the best person for the job, even
if it meant that the management of your company might consist of all
white Anglo-Saxon-protestant men?"

I agree but claiming he was for government controlled Affirmative Action is a lie.

"I did not understand the part about helping Americans to do business
with a Communist Dictatorship that doesn't allow its citizens freedom
of Religion, Press, Speech, Assembly, Unreasonable search and seizure,
or the right to life, liberty, or property. Do you think Romney wants
to do business with Cuba too?"

So your position is we should stop doing business with China? Or should we through trade agreements force them to meet our standards?

"Well... yes."

Then I support Iran everyday and don't care. I buy gas from whoever is the cheapest.

"Why would Romney say,"I feel that all people should be allowed to participate in the Boy Scouts regardless of their sexual orientation" if he is a conservative? Does he still believe this, or has he changed his mind on this too?"

Since he respects the boy scouts decisions to make it up themselves, his opinion would not change what the boyscouts do. What do you think Gays should be in society? Should we have camps for them away from the public?

"Okay, so Romney would not "personally" have an abortion, but what about
the right to life for the unborn? Clearly he did not express a right to
life position. Isn't that just a samantic cover up for being
pro-choice? Doesn't Hillary maintain that same position? Isn't that
really a liberal view of abortion?"

Well this is a legitimate position he changed on, if you do not believe he changed or think he can change anything about this well that is up to you. But the way he presents the position is not that of the Pro-Choice crowd.

The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource

"Some people believe



"Some people believe wanting any gun laws make you pro-gun control. So what would you consider a "misuse" of a gun?"


I guess we should just be able to shoot guns off in the middle of a
movie in public and wave them at kids going to school while laughing.
You figure out what misuse would mean.

Isn't it a different thing to say you can't damage property or commit assult with a gun, then it is to say you can't have a gun or a certain kind of gun? If I were in a movie theater and I were assaulted by a man with a knife, is it okay to shoot the gun then?

---
"So Romney is pro-diversity. But isn't that a liberal idea? Wouldn't it
be better for business if you hired the best person for the job, even
if it meant that the management of your company might consist of all
white Anglo-Saxon-protestant men?"


I agree but claiming he was for government controlled Affirmative Action is a lie.

Should we call it Diversity Monitoring instead?

---

"I did not un