To paraphrase Dan Akroyd...

"RJ, you ignorant slut"

You wrote...

"I'm not suggesting that he gave in to his captors, but that, just to stay alive for those five and a half long, brutal years, he learned to tailor his reactions to avoid various forms of physical punishment and psychological attacks....a form of appeasement"

In one sentence you contradicted yourself by using "but that" and in so doing you labeled him an appeaser while being a guest at the Hilton. My dad flew two tours in 'Nam in A6 intruders. I got to know Fellows, Alvarez, McCain and a few others. I visit the Wall to honor his friends who are inscribed in the stone. I'd suggest reading 'P.O.W.' to actually find out what those guys went through in their 'stay' at the hotel in downtown Hanoi. McCain has the qualifications far ahead of anyone in this field. I wish him Godspeed.

Syrius

First of all conservatives don't hail the virtues of "open-mindedness". Secondly, conservatives listen to all points of view and then decide which is most correct. mattm

McCain is not my candidate of choice - I like Thompson and Romney - but with the things we've recently learned about Huckabee (rumors of personal corruption -- quite a bit -- letting criminals go, raising taxes, offering illegals better deals than residents can get, inability to grasp the world situation) I actually prefer McCain to Huckabee. Huckabee is smooth and seems so sincere, but he feels very off to me, which is a shame because he is quick on his feet, a benefit our Republican candidate needs. But not at the expense of saying only what he thinks people want to hear - that is too HRC for my liking.

And come on people, when the liberal press likes a candidate, we should be very scared.

Anyway, I believe the GOP will nominate a more conservative candidate, and that our Republican will win in November. Middle America leans more conservative, despite the best efforts (and they've been grandiose!) of the media to convince themselves and us otherwise. I have to believe that we are too smart to fall into the trap of socialism or populism.

botg -- uh -- take that as read!

In the party you are inclined to support (not necessarily registered) dude!

Check out my exclusive edit of BBC News America's interview with Mrs Clinton: It's news to me!

RJ - interesting! Thanks for playing.

Check out my exclusive edit of BBC News America's interview with Mrs Clinton: It's news to me!

thanks sarc -- yes, if you believe the polls, it looks like you won't be in the position of Hobson's Choice anyway with your one no no.

Check out my exclusive edit of BBC News America's interview with Mrs Clinton: It's news to me!

At least McCain doesn't have some nationalized healthcare plan and he claims that he has seen the light on border security and the amnesty issue and says he was wrong.

Huckabee is just as socialistic and pro-amnesty as the Democrats.

RJ: I treated the subject with compassion, not derision or as an attack.  

Sure, you lead with the fake disclaimer.  I suppose you truly believe that really got you off the hook there.

Other than a series of name calling, you present no argument as to what was wrong with my post. 

No names were called.  Your behavior only is in question here.  You were absolutely the last NBer I would imagine to make such a crazy association like that. 

Are you claiming, for example, that those brutal five and a half years left no lasting mark?

Point taken.  I know exactly what you're saying.  You weren't there.  Have you ever even been to jail?  What the hell?  You're saying his political decisions are based completely on his wartime experience!  I have some friends in Arizona who'd LOVE to see what you wrote.

As displayed in the classic concept of Neville Chamberlain, an appeaser is an appeaser...and that's what I think McCain displays, politically.

Based on an assumptive statement entirely.  You connection is wholly unwarranted, and I can't believe other members here let that one slide past.

Interesting that you join the troll, Syrius, who also had nothing of substance to say about it my evaluation.   Obviously, what you and he have in common is your active dislike of me.      :^)

Insincere smileys aside, I'm following Syrius' reaction (yes, that's obvious on the shallow level)--but obviously not for the same reasons (if you weren't running with the easier excuse). 

You can derail this all you want into an argument about whether it's personal or not, but that only erodes your own side in the matter.  As evidenced by my own behavior, I don't troll you personally.  I troll inane statements that are left largely undefended.  You RJ, just happen to be the one to bring it up. 

So let's keep it on topic.  You accused Sen. McCain of making political decisions with a POW mindset. 

1. He's back in the US.
2. He's got over two decades behind him.
3. He's probably had this accusation lobbed at him in the past and considered it.

Just because you see him on TV getting all chummy with Hillary, you decide to take the lowest shot possible and call him an appeaser with POW blinders on.  It's completely callous and disrespectful of all POWs. 

And I hope one of 'em is watching right now to pick up the ball.  I never served in Vietnam and I don't think it's my place to school your sorry rear.

Take it back RJ.  It was a cheap shot.  Take it the hell back. 

-PJ

"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07 

 "P.S. Re-read Blazer's post.  He posted about McCain's "breaking" in captivity (something I suggested didn't happen), and I don't think he was particularly disagreeing with what I said."

Without trying to add life to an allready dead thread RJ, I think it's important to note that McCain's "breaking" was the direct result of him not giving in to his captor's, suicide being the alternative.

"Teeth and bones were broken again as was McCain's spirit; the beginnings of a suicide attempt was stopped by guards"

Now let's revisit your definition of "breaking":

"After four days of this, McCain signed an anti-American propaganda "confession" that said he was a "black criminal" and an "air pirate",[33] although he used stilted Communist jargon and ungrammatical language to signal the statement was forced.[39] He would later write, "I had learned what we all learned over there: Every man has his breaking point. I had reached mine."[36] His injuries to this day have left him incapable of raising his arms above his head.[40] His captors tried to force him to sign a second statement, and this time he refused. He received two to three beatings per week because of his continued refusal.[41] Other American POWs were similarly tortured and maltreated in order to extract "confessions".[36] On one occasion when McCain was physically coerced to give the names of members of his squadron, he supplied them the names of the Green Bay Packers' offensive line."

If that's how you define "breaking" RJ, I could only hope any one of us could do it so well.

"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "

                   - Ben Kenobi on  Liberals, and the MSM.

                               " The Cake is a lie."   

Nothing against you personally Blazer.  I only expected RJ to get avalanched for that. 

You wanna go after McCain on his record?  Be my guest.

You wanna state your opinions that he's soft on terror suspects?  You're completely welcome to do that as well.

But if you wanna sit there and play armchair amateur psychiatrist, arbitrarily stamping 2-dimensional motives, then fail to apologize for it (while "working the crowd" at the same time), then I think the majority of NBers are smart enough to eventually tire of it.

Eventually.

-PJ

"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07 

It's interesting that we came to the same conclusion that McCain is an "appeaser", but got there by different routes. 

Then, although I deliberately suggested that McCain had not been broken, your post showed that he had.  Between those two, it's obvious how I misread your intent.

Blazer, I don't think it's a slap in the face of veterans to honestly try to evaluate the behavior of a political candidate.  That's the same argument used by defenders of the behavior of politicans like Murtha and Kerry.  

As I said several times, I fully honor McCain's service, his strength, and feel sorrow for what he went through.  But we're trying to judge the ability of the man (or woman) who will lead the free world.  Honest, compassionate evaluations are appropriate.

Too many people think with their emotions and act like 3-year-olds who take their marbles and run home to mom if they can't win every game on their own terms.

The "as compared to what" question is key to all critical thinking (logic).  Protesting by opting out and not voting if a centrist becomes the Republican nominee is the same as voting for a Democrat. 

Obama talks a good game, but that has nothing whatever to do with his super Liberal stance on almost all issues.

"I have nothing but the utmost respect for McCain because of what he went through. I can't even imagine putting up with that for 5 months, nevermind 5 years. But whatever scars he carries from it, I don't think a tendency to "appeasement" is one of them. And although I don't like his "fraternizing" with Democrats, I'm inclined to think that's a result of the politician in him and is just part of his personality, wanting to be applauded and celebrated by the Media.

I think he wants to be seen as someone who can cooperate  and get things done.  I don't like that about him, but I don't think it is appeasement, and I don't think it has to do with his captivity. "

Here's a POW story from McCain that I find very moving.

http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/m/mccain-flag.htm

No, motherbelt, I don't think McCain could "stay under the radar."   But I do think there are hundreds of learned and internalized behaviors that were probably practiced to avoid angering his captors or doing things that instigate beatings or other mal treatment.

I repeat:  I think McCain is a hero and a good man who suffered in unimaginable ways.  My "suspicions" have nothing to do with that.   I also said that if he has been affected psychologically he probably isn't even aware of it.  

As I said to Blazer, we can disagree, but I think it's worthwhile and important to consider this. 

Ads that is

How is Huckabee going to do that now that he is against Romneys "negative" contrast ads?

McCain is running personal attack ads. Calling Romney "phony." That does not work it has to be about the issues.

Biggest Issue is THE ECONOMY. Romney is the leader on this.

Never have seen the movie.Indiana Jones fan but never did get into Laura Croft(SP)movies or game.