Ed Rollins is Mike Huckabee's National Campaign Chairman. Appearing on this evening's Hardball, the renowned political consultant declined to say that Romney's religion wasn't relevant to the campaign. For good measure, Rollins suggested that a senior Romney aide is . . . an atheist.
ED ROLLINS: Well, first of all, you and I are Catholics and Ron [Kaufman, senior Romney aide], are you still an atheist or have you basically converted, now that you're rich?
View video here.
ROLLINS: He's my very dear friend.
MATTHEWS: I know, but you just accused him of being an atheist.
And a bit later . . .
ROLLINS: I know exactly what you're asking and I think the bottom line is that the voters themselves will make that decision.
MATTHEWS: Whoa! Whoa! Ron Kaufman, he just dodged on the question whether there's a religious difference between the two candidates in what they're offering in terms of policy.
For whatever reason, Kaufman chose to change the subject. But Rollins couldn't have made it more clear that the Huckabee campaign has decided to leave the religion card on the table.
Comments Policy
Ridiculous
December 20, 2007 - 23:55 ET by Jerry MackI find conversations or accusations or what ever you call it like this ridiculous.
Way to go, Peggy Noonan!
December 21, 2007 - 14:23 ET by RJThe accusations from the Huckabee camp might be "ridiculous", Jerry, but this attack from Rollins is indicitive of the mean-sprited campaign being waged by Huckabee.
He or his staff slyly and vaguely attack Romney and his staff on religious grounds, they whine that Rush Limbaugh supposedly attacked Huckabee (he didn't), they complain that the "Wall Street-Washington insiders" are against his campaign....and they pretend that it's all because they're bringing us a religious message.
As Peggy Noonan said about the "cross" ad, "I wound up thinking: this is nice...this is creepy."
"That guy is using the cross so I'll like him. That doesn't tell me what he thinks of Jesus, but it does tell me what he thinks of me. He thinks I'm dim. He thinks I will associate my savior with his candidacy. Bleh."
"Mr. Huckabee is clever. He puts forth his policies, such as they are, based on a faith-based understanding of public policy, and if you disagree with his policies, or take a hard shot at them, or at him, he suggests the reason is that you look down on evangelicals."
Way to go, Peggy. Your column has defined the essential creepiness of Huckabee.
typical...
December 21, 2007 - 15:17 ET by jitumalu"Mr. Huckabee is clever. He puts forth his policies, such as they are, based on a faith-based understanding of public policy, and if you disagree with his policies, or take a hard shot at them, or at him, he suggests the reason is that you look down on evangelicals."
She doesn't know one bit of whats going on. The Fair Tax, or implementing prevention incentives in healthcare are not tidbits from the Bible. Unfortunately the media has dwelled on Huckabee's religion so much that no one knows what his domestic policies are for the future.
Who is getting trashed for his religious beliefs? Huckabee. Not Romney. I have been following Huckabee for a while so I understand whats going on more than many people. When he gets questioned and ridiculed on his faith, he doesn't cower and run away, he takes it head on. He feels like he's doing a favor for future evangelicals as well especially those who want to run for public office.
Why are evangelicals flocking to him? Because he's not afraid of criticism - especially about his faith. Castigating him as Jimmy Carter or Harriet Miers offends me too. I don't like to be painted as a dumb holy-roller Jesus freak who knows nothing except "I love jesus".
To those who think Huckabee is just another crazy evangelical, I suggest you check his 14 year long record as the Liet. Gov and Governor of Arkansas. Can you tell me where he has failed significally? Jobs went up, he left the state with a 800+ million surplus, roads improved, education improved, healthcare improved, crime went down. Have you heard anyone call him an imcompetant Governor?
http://justinok.blog...
Obviously, you didn't bother reading the post or Noonan's
December 21, 2007 - 18:11 ET by RJcolumn, jitumalu.
It's Huckabee who has both initiated and kept the idea of his religion in the forefront, not his critics. And it's his sly use of religion, not the religion itself that he's being criticized for.
Your charge that Huckabee is being "trashed...for his religious beliefs" or that he's being called "another crazy evangelical" is just as false as the rest of your post. What is true is that he and his supporters (look in the mirror, jit) have been falsely playing the victim. That's exactly what Noonan wrote about.
Where has he "failed?" In his liberalism. The truth you won't admit is that Huckabee is nothing more than a liberal who is against abortion. But you're willing to overlook that because you agree with his religion.
RJ
December 21, 2007 - 22:03 ET by Jerry MackThanks, but I am a Romney supporter and am aware of everything that you said.
I watched this when it was on the tube. It is the last one that I will watch that discusses any of the candidates religion. Nor will I listen to any of it being discussed on the radio. I am a religious person but I will not vote for anyone that bases their campaign on religion or anyone that bashes another persons. I want to know their back ground and their plans on taxes, security, immigration, war on terror and other things that will shape the future of our country.
Exactly, Jerry
December 21, 2007 - 22:57 ET by RJThat was my point...and Peggy Noonan's, too.
Did you read her column?
}}---> Noonan's column
December 21, 2007 - 23:28 ET by Cool ArrowI read Peggy Noonan's column and respect her views. There are issues Huckabee's record is soft on.
But there are issues Romney is also soft on. His "my daddy marched with Martin Luther King" claim is so much Al Gore "My father was a champion of the Civil Rights movement" blather that it rises to the level of calling African Americans stupid.
Maybe this is a small thing in some circles, but I will not defend Romney's lying pandering to my Black friends.
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It's a real stretch to claim that Romney calls blacks stupid.
December 21, 2007 - 23:34 ET by RJAll politicans pander, and you don't have to defend it.
But there's absolutely no comparison between misstating an event and using sly religious digs against your opponents, whining that you're being attacked for your religious beliefs, etc, etc, as described so well by Noonan.
}}---> Misstating an event
December 21, 2007 - 23:48 ET by Cool Arrow"Misstating an event"? I won't award the Euphemism of the Month award just yet, but yours is certainly in the running.
Do you not know just how much "street cred" White people stock into that old worn out phrase "I marched with Dr. King".
But play it down to "misstating" if it feels better.
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Wow. Are you actually trying to put the two on the same level?
December 21, 2007 - 23:52 ET by RJCome on, Cool. Say it ain't so...
Bot at all, RJ
December 21, 2007 - 23:57 ET by Cool ArrowAn implication that "I'm more Christian than you", though not explicitly stated, is far less repugnant than a completely false statement to improve one's standing.
Certainly the two are on different levels.
And the other question Huckabee asked of the reporter, we both know the answer to that one. Sure, Huckabee was wrong in asking it as it had nothing to do with Romney's politics any more than if he were a Muslim. Agreed?
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Bot at all
December 22, 2007 - 00:01 ET by botgyou talking to me?
"how would i know? if i knew everything i'd run for God" ----crpl Klinger
Wow, Cool, you're REALLY in the bag for that liberal Huckabee
December 22, 2007 - 00:05 ET by RJ....ain't ya? :^)
Go read my first post in this thread (second overall) and try to tell me what Romney said is even vaguely similar to the ugly campaign being waged by Huckabee. While you're at it, try doing more than skimming Noonan this time.
}}---> RJ
December 22, 2007 - 00:19 ET by Cool ArrowI may end up supporting Romney. I've got problems with both candidates. But I'm not gonna support Mitt just because he's got a nice haircut either.
I have questions about Huckabee's Illegal Alien record as well as his Tax record.
And I dare say if I were a staunch Romney supporter at this stage, I'd find his race pandering as offensive and embarrassing as I do now.
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Believe me, Cool, I have serious questions about Romney, too
December 22, 2007 - 00:24 ET by RJFor just one example, that the Bush family seems to approve of him makes me nervous. I want a guy who can handle big business, but I don't want him to be their poodle, either.
But that doesn't mean I'm willing to diminish the behavior of Huckabee. I agree nearly 100% with Noonan's column.
Huckabee is not what Evangelicals believe he is
December 21, 2007 - 00:19 ET by PopularTechPlaying the evangelical card is all the Huckster's got and even that is begining to backfire...
Huckabee on Taxes (Video) (1min)
Ann Coulter: “Huckabee is the Republican Jimmy Carter” (Video) (4min)
Ann Coulter: "Huckabee Stupid and easily led" (Video) (2min)
There’s a Huckabee Born Every Minute (Ann Coulter, Human Events)
"I guess Huckabee is one of those pro-sodomy, pro-gay marriage, pro-evolution evangelical Christians" - Ann Coulter
Huckabee Backs No Child Left Behind
Huckabee on Education: No to Vouchers, Let Government Fix It (Standard Newswire)
Home Schoolers Lose Ground with New Law signed by Governor Huckabee
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The Ann Coulter editorial
December 21, 2007 - 02:04 ET by Gary P JacksonThe Ann Coulter editorial was brilliant. Of course, they all are!
But seriously, Ann tears right into him. With so many candidates, it will be interesting, to say the least! It will still shake out between Mitt and Rudy for sure.
ANN COULTER IS AN IDIOT. And
December 21, 2007 - 17:20 ET by KeithANN COULTER IS AN IDIOT. And so is anyone else who thinks that we are EVER going to deport 12 million illegal aliens! Not gonna happen. That's why that tool Tancredo is a moron too. He actually thinks Romney's going to make these people go home, yeah right.
Ann Coulter is an idiot
December 21, 2007 - 17:25 ET by bigtimerAnn Coulter is an idiot says keith...
Wow...why am I not surprised?
Geesh...
Continue on keith....as usual...
Ann Coulter is not an idiot...
December 21, 2007 - 23:59 ET by Clear thinkerKeith, you are disparaging my future wife, so cool it!
Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/
Sorry
December 21, 2007 - 05:08 ET by MikeknaJSorry, but trying to use Ann Coulter as evidence against Huckabee actually makes me like him even more.
http://www.xanga.com/mikeknaj
More Not to like about Huckabee
December 21, 2007 - 07:57 ET by PopularTechIf Ann Coulter will not convince you then maybe this will. It is blatantly obvious that everyone supporting Huckabee has not done ANY research on this pro-life liberal.
Huckabee on Taxes (Video) (1min)
Ann Coulter: “Huckabee is the Republican Jimmy Carter” (Video) (4min)
Ann Coulter: "Huckabee Stupid and easily led" (Video) (2min)
Another Man From Hope. Who is Mike Huckabee? (The Wall Street Journal)
Christian conservatives: Beware of Huckabee (WorldNetDaily)
Mike Huckabee is far from being Reagan's heir (The Wall Street Journal)
The Huckabee Hustle (American Thinker)
The False Conservative (Robert Novak, Townhall)
There’s a Huckabee Born Every Minute (Ann Coulter, Human Events)
"I guess Huckabee is one of those pro-sodomy, pro-gay marriage, pro-evolution evangelical Christians" - Ann Coulter
Background:
Age: 52
Education:
- Ordained to ministry Southern Baptist Convention, 1974
- B.A. Religion, Ouachita Baptist University, 1976
Military Experience:
- None
Political Experience:
- Lt. Governor of Arkansas, 1993-1996
- Governor of Arkansas, 1996-2007
Religion:
- Baptist
Crime and Punishment:
Mike Huckabee's Clemency Record Is Under Scrutiny (FOXNews)
Why parole a monster like Green?
Mother of Dumond Victim: "If not for Huckabee, she’d be here for Christmas" (Video) (1min)
Ethics:
NBC Investigates Huckabee's Ethical Shortcomings (Video) (2min)
A Son’s Past Deeds (Dog Torture) Come Back To Bite Huckabee (Newsweek)
Huck's gift-givers ended up in state posts (Politico)
Huckabee Signed '98 Ad Urging Women to 'Graciously Submit' to Husbands
Education:
Huckabee Backs No Child Left Behind
Huckabee on Education: No to Vouchers, Let Government Fix It (Standard Newswire)
Home Schoolers Lose Ground with New Law signed by Governor Huckabee
Fiscal Record:
Huckabee's Fiscal Record
Huckabee: The Biggest Big-Government Conservative (FOXNews)
Mike Huckabee is a Liberal (Club for Growth)
Updated Huckabee White Paper (Club for Growth)
- Immediately upon taking office he signed a sales tax hike in 1996
- He raised taxes on gasoline in 1999
- He supported an internet sales tax in 2001
- He created a $5.25 per day bed-tax on private nursing home patients in 2001
- He publicly opposed the repeal of a sales tax on groceries and medicine in 2002
- He proposed another sales take hike in 2002 to fund education improvements
- He raised taxes on cigarettes in 2003
- He opposed a congressional measure to ban internet taxes in 2003
- He allowed a 17% sales tax increase to become law in 2004
- He increased taxes in the state by more than Bill Clinton did
- He increased state spending 65.3% from 1996 to 2004
- The number of state government workers rose 20% during his tenure
- Governor Huckabee refused to pledge not to raise taxes if elected President
Tax Hike Mike
- Overall, Huckabee’s substantial tax hikes far surpassed his modest tax cuts, with the average tax burden increasing by a whopping 47% over his tenure.
Foreign Policy:
Huckabee: Gitmo Not In America's Best Interests (Video) (1min)
Mike Huckabee Criticizes Bush Administration for 'Bunker Mentality' on Iraq (FOXNews)
The Holiday Inn Express Candidate (National Review Online)
The Problem With Pastor Mike (National Review Online)
Global Warming:
Huckabee is the only Republican candidate to support the economy crippling Cap and Trade CO2 Legislation, Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) Regulation and Renewable Energy Standards
Illegal Immigration:
Laura Ingraham: Huckabee Is A "Big Loser" On Immigration (Audio) (5min)
Huckabee Supported Scholarships for Illegal Aliens (Video) (5min)
Fact Checker: Pinocchios for Huckabee on Illegals (Washington Post)
Huckabee aid plan for illegal aliens draws 'venom, anger' (Arkansas News Bureau)
Huckabee Liberal on Immigration (Standard Newswire)
Huckabee offered 'no-cost' deal for Mexican Consulate (WorldNetDaily)
Huckabee promotes 'open door' policy at League of United Latin American Citizens (LULAC) convention (Arkansas News Bureau)
Immigration bill un-Christian, anti-life, governor says (Arkansas News Bureau)
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Dag-gone!
December 21, 2007 - 08:27 ET by sentforth5PT I sit in awe. Awestricken, I tells ya!
Obama: Mike Huckabee is My Favorite GOP Candidate
December 21, 2007 - 08:50 ET by PopularTechHere is another good one...
Obama: Mike Huckabee is My Favorite GOP Candidate (Newsmax)
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Tancredo endorses Romney You bet your life Huckabee was a factor
December 21, 2007 - 08:57 ET by PopularTechTancredo endorses Romney: "You bet your life Huckabee was a factor" (Hot Air)
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Homeschoolers beware of Mike Huckabee
December 21, 2007 - 09:51 ET by PopularTechHomeschoolers beware! (WorldNetDaily)
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Popular Tech, Do you ever
December 21, 2007 - 09:54 ET by LeonPopular Tech,
Do you ever have your own opinion or are you just a warehouse of links?
I mean, great job spending countless hours scouring the internet to find every and all obscure articles to support whatever it is you're trying to argue, but could you keep it to yourself?
You win Leon's Holiday Award for the Most Annoying Poster of the Year.
That's quite a feat considering you beat Free Stinker's sweet scoreboard style.
Huckabee received the endorsement of the New Hampshire NEA
December 21, 2007 - 09:56 ET by PopularTech- Huckabee received the endorsement of the New Hampshire NEA
Ignore the facts if you don't like them. My opinion is clearly formed on what I research.
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You win Leon's Holiday Award for the Most Annoying Poster of the
December 21, 2007 - 10:17 ET by MightyMouthLeon you must be joking!
The NB 'Most Annoying' has got the Leon version beat to Hell, and YOU my friend get top honors!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
I'm no fan of Huckabee, but Popular Tech IS annoying
December 21, 2007 - 10:56 ET by RJ...with his repetitive, thread-eating barrages of links that contain virtually no evaluation or commentary.
}}---> Amen RJ
December 21, 2007 - 11:01 ET by Cool ArrowAnd it doesn't seem PopTech is for anything or anybody.
This "I hate Huckabee" flooding is getting old . . . fast
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Don't play Games
December 21, 2007 - 11:08 ET by PopularTechI already stated I was for ANY of the GOP except Huckabee or McCain and made it clear multiple times if Huckabee was nominated I would either NOT vote or vote independent. Don't play games, please. Oh here is Mike Huckabee on Education...
Huckabee Backs No Child Left Behind (The Hill)
Huckabee on Education: No to Vouchers, Let Government Fix It (Standard Newswire)
Homeschoolers beware! (WorldNetDaily)
- Huckabee received the endorsement of the New Hampshire NEA
HomeSchoolers Lose Ground with New Law signed by Governor Huckabee (Home School Legal Defense Association)
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Are you Blind or insane?
December 21, 2007 - 11:04 ET by PopularTechNo evaluation or commentary of Huckabee? Are you blind or insane?
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Evaluation or commentary? Usually, no.
December 21, 2007 - 11:22 ET by RJMost of the time we get "repetitive, thread-eating barrages of links that contain virtually no evaluation or commentary."
RJ, I can't remember the
December 21, 2007 - 11:25 ET by LeonRJ,
I can't remember the last time we agreed. But this Popular Tech guy is out of control.
How many times do we have to see the same posts over and over and over again?
Post your long, annoying links once and be done with it.
This guy has more free time on his hands than anyone I've ever met. Absolutely brutal.
Can we just set up a forum thread where Popular Tech can post links to other people's work? I mean, it's not like he ever has his own opinion or any sort of commentary on the links he posts.
I think somebody needs to spend a little less time on the internet.
You are a moron
December 21, 2007 - 11:28 ET by PopularTechLeon, you are an absolute moron. Anyone with half a brain which obviously does not include you can see and read the links I post to clearly and easily understand my opinion, which I frequently post too.
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PopularTech, Trust me, it
December 21, 2007 - 11:31 ET by LeonPopularTech,
Trust me, it really hurts to be called a moron by a guy that lives in cyberspace.
You're a tremendous bore with zero creativity or originality.
Put the internet down. Take a walk. Get some fresh air. Stop annoying people with links to other people's works.
"Cyberspace"?
December 21, 2007 - 11:36 ET by PopularTechDid you learn that word from TV? Who uses ridiculous words like Cyberspace? Please stop embarrassing yourself.
It is not that you are a moron, you are just beyond idiotic. You make stupid pointless statements and attempt to talk down to me as if you have any remote idea what you are talking about. It is so utterly sad.
Now please, nothing you will say has any effect on what I will post. Now that we are clear, your useless ramblings can be filed under "moron who does not know how to use a computer".
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Pop, Nice try tiger. I
December 21, 2007 - 11:44 ET by LeonPop,
Nice try tiger. I should be embarassed b/c I used the word cyberspace?
haha. Spoken like a true internet nerd/addict. Clearly I was right about your unhealthy internet obsession. Sorry I prefer to spend time with humans, hence my outdated internet nerd lingo.
So i'm not a moron, I'm beyond idiotic? I had always assumed that to be a moron was to inherently be beyond idiotic. Moron has more negative connotation than Idiot, so you basically just said the same thing twice. Your petty attacks expose you as the small petulant child we all know that you are. Who but a child would waste exhorbitant amounts of time copying other people's work?
I know what I'm talking about, do you? Furthermore, you can see what I'm talking about b/c my posts are my own words and not just a compilation of links.
How from my post do you deduce that I don't know how to use a computer? Wouldn't my participation on this website expose that attack as being blatantly false? How could I post on Newsbusters if I didn't know how to use a computer? That doesn't make any sense.
Aren't you embarassed by your behavior? Take a deep breath and read your above post. It's pretty sad actually.
Pathetic
December 21, 2007 - 11:51 ET by PopularTechLeon, seriously you need mental help. Just because I can efficiently use the Internet and you cannot does not mean I spend all my time online. Your obvious lack of computer knowledge and skill is obvious but please don't keep embarassing yourself about it by making unsubstantiated generalizations. Do you have any idea I was working a full time job doing most of this? Ooops that is because you don't have that skill. Now lets move on to your useless comments.
Copying other's work implies I am stealing it, when I am doing no such thing. I am simply linking to it giving the creator their full rights. I am sorry but someone even as dumb as yourself should realize that sourcing is more effective than random blog commentary.
Clue #1 = Pecking on a keyboard does not make you knowledgeable about computers. Now go try and bully someone where you can, try the DailyKos.
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Like I said
December 21, 2007 - 11:26 ET by PopularTechLike I said blind or insane. The evaluation is in the links as well as the commentary. Hell the evaluation and the commentary is in most of the link titles!
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Intervention time. You're
December 21, 2007 - 11:28 ET by LeonIntervention time.
You're out of control.
Have you ever written a single original thought?
You're just a nuisance.
Start your own forum topic where you can try to impress people with the insane number of hours you spend scouring the internet for links.
Why are you retarted?
December 21, 2007 - 11:29 ET by PopularTechYou obviously have not read my posts. People like you who make idiotic statements are just amazing.
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Popular Tech, I have
December 21, 2007 - 11:33 ET by LeonPopular Tech,
I have read your posts. They nothing but links. If I just read just your posts I wouldn't learn anything except a long list of headlines.
Why are so pathetic that you immediately resort to personally attacking someone you don't even know. Retarded? Really? You use that word to insult people? Wow. Real mature. Classy. What are you 11?
You're annoying. You recycle post after post. They are long and useless. I don't want to see a list of headlines. Make some of your own comments or get out.
The idiot keeps responding
December 21, 2007 - 11:38 ET by PopularTechWhy does someone as dumb as yourself keep responding? Is it to hear yourself speak as if someone cares? I don't understand I had no idea idiots like yourself had posting priviledges here.
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Pop, Weird, I was just
December 21, 2007 - 11:46 ET by LeonPop,
Weird, I was just about to ask you the same thing.
Yean, I mean, anyone who can read can see your posts are nothing more than a long list of headlines with zero commentary and, thus, zero worth.
Defend away, but your posts will belie your defense every time.
Have you just received a lobotomy?
December 21, 2007 - 11:55 ET by PopularTechIf you think my posts are of Zero worth well that is of no surprise as I can clearly see how someone of your limited intelligence does not have the brain power to absorb all the information I am able to.
The truth is my posts are incredibly effective which is why you are pathetically trying to attack me.
Learning would be annoying to someone like you Leon, which is why you prefer unsubstantiated ramblings.
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While I agree with the
December 21, 2007 - 11:30 ET by tracheostomyWhile I agree with the intent and the spirit behind it PT, you gotta admit you may have played all your cards at once. You could have garnered much more support for your "Huck spotlight" if you fed the audience a link at a time.
But you burned everyone out by dumping all at once, and now you're down to cloning large portions of old posts.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Irrelevant
December 21, 2007 - 11:40 ET by PopularTechWho cares? If you are burned out with learning all about Huckabee all at once, what can I say? It really doesn't matter. Don't read the links, pretend they do not exist.
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I'm not burned out by it,
December 21, 2007 - 11:49 ET by tracheostomyI'm not burned out by it, and I got this little mouse wheel that others are too lazy to use. But that's not the point. This isn't about me.
Hear me out reasonably PT. You were trying a "carrot and stick" approach, but you ended up dropping the whole bushel on the donkey.
What did you think was gonna happen?
All I was suggesting was something similar to say, Roger's "Religion of Peace" update.
That's all.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Too late for that
December 21, 2007 - 11:58 ET by PopularTechThe only people bothered by my posts are Huckabee supporters, evangelicals sympathetic to the Huckster and homeschooling advocates. Oh and morons like Leon.
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You know that's not true, PT
December 21, 2007 - 12:27 ET by RJBe careful of those broad generalizations. I've made it clear to you that I'm not a supporter of Huckabee.
Then don't help him
December 21, 2007 - 12:36 ET by PopularTechIf you are not a Huckabee supporter then don't help him.
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
Last post, PT
December 21, 2007 - 13:06 ET by RJObjecting to repetitive posting of links is not "helping Huckabee."
Mark's requests are reasonable. No need to get yourself banned. Stick around.
I take no offense, Polular Tech
December 21, 2007 - 11:32 ET by RJYou are what you are, and I didn't think my comment would convince or change you.
While I'm at it, I think Huckabee understands that his record and his platform are weak, and that his appeal is narrow.
That's the reason for the emphasis on religion.
You may want to check the polls
December 21, 2007 - 11:45 ET by PopularTechRepublican Presidential Nomination
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Sorry, PT
December 21, 2007 - 11:56 ET by RJIf you want to have a discussion with me, you'll have to do more than post links. That's not an attack, just my preference.
I don't want to
December 21, 2007 - 11:59 ET by PopularTechIf I wanted to have a discussion with you I would be hey RJ... But you can ignore the poll data at your own peril.
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By your own claims, PT,
December 21, 2007 - 12:05 ET by RJ....you think your leads and your choice of links ARE a form of discussion.
That means you're trying to "have a discussion" with me. Again, I say thanks, but I'm interested in actual conversation and debate, not "leads and links."
Correction a form of INFORMATION!
December 21, 2007 - 12:09 ET by PopularTechI am not trying to have a discussion, I am trying to inform people who have not researched this. If I wanted to have a discussion I would be engaging in one. You keep talking like I am trying to discuss something with you, WHEN I AM NOT. There are plenty of people here to have a discussion with.
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
Well, PT, when YOU choose to respond to my post
December 21, 2007 - 12:19 ET by RJand YOU claim "evaluation is in the links as well as the commentary. Hell the evaluation and the commentary is in most of the link titles!"....it's hard for you to deny you're trying to have your version of a discussion.
Again, no thanks. If you want to have a discussion, I require more than leads and links.
Of course I did
December 21, 2007 - 12:34 ET by PopularTechYou attacked my post so I have to defend myself. Don't attack my posts and I will not respond. But I surely did not initiate the conversation with you, you initiated it with me.
Again I am trying to inform those who want to be or are cursious. If you have no interest in the information I provide then don't read it. It was not posted for you.
NO I AM NOT TRYING TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH YOU RJ, get over it.
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PT: You're on thin ice. NO
December 21, 2007 - 12:37 ET by Mark FinkelsteinPT: You're on thin ice. NO MORE CONTENTIOUS POSTS AND NO MORE EXTENSIVE LINKING.
Mark
Then ban me
December 21, 2007 - 12:41 ET by PopularTechThen ban me please. I am so sick of the moderating here. Where the hell is the Business and Media institute on Huckabee? I thought you guys were pro-economy? Please keep helping him win!
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
Pop Tech...
December 21, 2007 - 12:47 ET by Clear thinkerI for one find your postings informative.
Geeeeesh, everyone calm down. It is the Season after all.
Merry Christmas everyone!
Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/
Popular tech
December 21, 2007 - 12:37 ET by jitumaluI don't mind you posting all those links at all, and I'm a Huckabee supporter. I just ignore them, I've read all of those articles before.
You definitely have the right to express your opinion.
http://justinok.blog...
The Business and Media Institute are Hypocrites
December 21, 2007 - 12:49 ET by PopularTechSomebody here wants Huckabee to win because I have never seen the business and media institute be more hypocritical in my life! I am going to ger banned for posting links against the pro-tax, pro-big government Huckabee? Why? Because they don't have the balls to offend the evangelicals? Gimme a frickin break. Screw this.
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
You are welcome to express
December 21, 2007 - 12:54 ET by Mark FinkelsteinYou are welcome to express strong opinions against or on behalf of any candidate. I ask two things:
1. avoid flame wars; and
2. do not post long, link-filled comments.
Then it is over
December 21, 2007 - 13:05 ET by PopularTechHuck 19% - Rudy 20%, enjoy Huckabee and all the new taxes, oops I mean Hillary. Later.
The Anti "Man-Made" Global Warming Resource
Here here.
December 21, 2007 - 17:27 ET by KeithHere here. This is a response to the guy who said that bringing up ANN DOLTER was making him support Huck. I agree. She's nutz. Although when she flames libs I do enjoy it.
This is nothing compared to Fred Thompsons senior aide
December 21, 2007 - 01:40 ET by Daniel BakerShe was talking specific doctrines in her interview
Rollins and jokes
December 21, 2007 - 05:32 ET by KC MulvilleI have a friend who has absolutely no religious background at all. None. But he has a sense of humor. Somehow we got into a silly little routine where our different backgrounds were the source of jokes. He would ask me if the Jesuits ever conducted "sacrifices," and was that why I was always looking for virgins. Ha ha. I'd kid him that as an atheist, the local bank was the closest thing to his cathedral, and I'd make jokes about his "worship" habits. Etc. Ha ha.
Yeah, I know. Nobody else thinks it's funny. It's between us. Religion is like that. Jokes don't go over well. They always fall flat.
I think that's what happened here. I suspect that Rollins wasn't really trying to make any serious political or theological points. He was trying to make light of the differences, without coming out and saying that "religion shouldn't separate us." Maybe Rollins was afraid of losing Huckabee supporters who are religious zealots, and that's why he addressed it in a roundabout way. Or. maybe he was just trying to kid around with a colleague he's known for a long time. I don't know. But Rollins didn't seem to be trying for a sinister or calculated political smear there.
I just think Matthews, as usual, took it the wrong way.
When Matthews said "Ed
December 21, 2007 - 06:49 ET by Mark FinkelsteinWhen Matthews said "Ed Rollins, you know exactly what I'm asking" and Rollins replied "I know exactly what you're asking" that was dead serious. Those were two political pros talking to each other, and Rollins very consciously choosing to leave the religion issue out there.
You wrote "maybe Rollins was afraid of losing Huckabee supporters who are religious zealots." Precisely, as well as others who are not zealots but who might be inclined to be concerned.
Think if an opponent were black and the same exchange had occurred. Surely you'd agree that would be wrong. I don't see much difference here.
I really dont think
December 21, 2007 - 09:57 ET by jitumaluIt had nothing to do with his religion. I believe the Huckabee campaign is trying to make the point that regardless of his mormon beliefs, Mitt Romney is not a genuine social conservative. So if they give into the point that since he's a mormon that means he's automatically a social conservative, then they lose one of their wedge issues.
If we are to follow your thinking Mark, I think then Huckabee wouldn't also not hire catholics either. Both his campaign manager, and campaign chairman are catholics.
By the way, I've known many mormons to be very family oriented, nice people (including the Romney family itself). I just don't support this John Kerry-like politician. He was convincing the people of Massachusetts just as hard to show how he is very pro-choice.
There was no coverage on this blog about the MSM hitting huckabee on the servant leadership of the husband issue. I guess most commentators on here decided to let that one pass by as they do usually. Trash an evangelical, no problem, but trash a mormon, its the end of the world. I suggest that we be equally fair in how we treat every religion.
http://justinok.blog...
There was no coverage on
December 21, 2007 - 10:18 ET by tracheostomyAgreed. Unfortunately this one simple; rational request has been falling on deaf ears for some time now. I also love the careless use of the word zealot. I would love to hear KC and Mark's definition of the term. But then I'd be discussing religion on the main board, a strict policy no-no. And a highly selective one at that.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Not as long as we stick to politics
December 21, 2007 - 11:51 ET by KC MulvilleNah, "zealot" has a religious history, but we use it outside of religion all the time. In this conversation, a zealot is a combination of passion and a closed mind. It's basically a prejudice with passion. We associate it with religious prejudice because of the background, but it's the passion that's politically important. The key is that the zealot stops thinking, and you can't appeal to him rationally. All you have to do is remind him what he's prejudiced about, and let the passion do the rest.
Let's face it, our culture has plenty of prejudices, based on gender, race, heritage, etc. However, let's also give our culture some credit. Unlike other cultures, we don't simply deport or kill off anyone who's different. More than any other culture, Americans encourage each other to jettison their prejudices and deal with individuals. As Americans in a melting pot, we make a special effort to overcome the prejudice itself. We have a long way to go, but we're still working at it.
No campaign will start a race by appealing to a prejudice. But if you're in a close race, and turnout will matter, you may be seduced to stir up the passion of the prejudiced. After all, candidates don't pay you millions of dollars to gracefully lose. You're supposed to try and win, and if the other guys are doing it against you, you may feel free to do it yourself.
Political campaigns are banquets for people who appreciate and admire rhetoric, like me. Appealing to zealots is, unfortunately, something that all these guys do. They all do it, some better than others. They should be called on it when they do it, and (after Mark's reply) I think Mark's original piece did that correctly.
Disclaimer for the
December 21, 2007 - 12:26 ET by tracheostomyDisclaimer for the ultra-sensitive: The following response is not an attack. It is a genuine inquiry and an appeal to reason.
>>In this conversation, a zealot is a combination of passion and a closed mind.
I wasn't aware of that. Was that intended to be an insider-only term then?
What's wrong with being passionate about what you believe in? And if it is "wrong", then what standard of right or wrong does it fall into?
>>However, let's also give our culture some credit.
>>Unlike other cultures, we don't simply deport or kill off anyone who's different.
But neither do the "zealots" Huck is allegedly pandering to. There has to be a defined ceiling for this sort of thing. And if it's not violence, than what is it, harsh language? Ad hominem arguments?
>>Political campaigns are banquets for people
>>who appreciate and admire rhetoric, like me.
>>Appealing to zealots is, unfortunately, something
>>that all these guys do. They all do it, some better
>>than others. They should be called on it when
>>they do it, and (after Mark's reply) I think Mark's
>>original piece did that correctly.
But why is it wrong in this case? Where is the motive to "call them out"?
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
No offense taken
December 21, 2007 - 15:02 ET by KC MulvilleWhat's wrong with being a zealot? A zealot is a combination of being passionate while having a closed mind. (I don't think that's a technical term; that's how most people define it.) There is nothing wrong with being passionate. The objection is against a closed mind.
If you're against Mitt Romney, not because of anything he's said or done, but simply because of his religion, then (I'd bet) most of us think that's a closed mind, and that it's unfair. It becomes the same as religious prejudice. In this culture, we want to treat people as individuals, no matter what demographic they belong to. Religious prejudice is the same thing as a closed mind, and in our culture, we oppose that.
Our culture, reflected in our literature and philosophy for thousands of years, promotes a balance between passion and open-mindedness. You can be as passionate as you want, but we also want you to keep an open mind. If you can do both, great. If you become passionate at the expense of of a closed mind, our culture discourages that. That's what we mean by zealot.
jitumalu comments
December 21, 2007 - 12:12 ET by River CityYou said what I was thinking. You must have read my mind: "John Kerry-like politician". This was especially highlighted yesterday with the news he "saw" his dad walking with MLK Jr. I have visions of Algore Jr. inventing the internet all over again. Then with this comment you read my mind again: "Trash an evangelical, no problem, but trash a mormon, its the end of the world." I am tired of being called a bigot every time I criticize Romney's flipflops and RINO positions. I am no evangelical and am a Fred supporter but the Romney militants will push me over the edge soon and make me into a Huckster supporter pretty quick if they don't back off. I am sick of the RINO elites on the East coast and in the Beltway trying to jam their favored candidate down my throught. /rant off
"We are going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." Hillary Clinton, 6-28-04 San Francisco
I see your point
December 21, 2007 - 10:55 ET by KC MulvilleYou're probably right, but what struck me is that these consultants are not themselves "true believers" in the religion of the candidate they represent. For these "political pros," religion is just a card to play in their consultant poker game.
My point was that it seems downright stupid for Rollins to try religion-baiting on behalf of Huckabee's evangelicals. I mean, why would Rollins try to stir up religious prejudice, since the supposed prejudice doesn't like Catholics anymore than Mormons? Why fuel a prejudice that doesn't like you either? That's when I thought, jeez, if this is calculated, Rollins probably didn't think this out too far. Maybe he was just making a joke that didn't work.
But on reflection, you're probably right. It just struck me as a stupid way to go about it.
Dear Mark, you
December 21, 2007 - 18:09 ET by KeithDear Mark, you wrote....
"When Matthews said "Ed Rollins, you know exactly what I'm asking" and Rollins replied "I know exactly what you're asking" that was dead serious. Those were two political pros talking to each other, and Rollins very consciously choosing to leave the religion issue out there."
ABSOLUTELY! I saw the exchange and that's exactly how it went down. No doubt that Rollins knew what Matthews asked and "declined" to answer!
You then wrote.....
"Think if an opponent were black and the same exchange had occurred. Surely you'd agree that would be wrong. I don't see much difference here."
Here's where you went off the rails in my not so humble opinion. There really IS no difference between a black man and a white man, IF all other things are equal such as education, experience and breeding. So to imply that there was a racially based difference of an "inherent" nature would be racist and revisiting our sordid past where such things were routinely taught.
BUT there IS a HUGE difference between the belief systems of CHRISTIANS who believe that JESUS IS GOD and that HIS word is SUPREME and MORMONS who elevate the teaching of Joseph Smith ABOVE the teaching of Jesus Christ! For many years Mormons have been trying to fool the public about the nature of their faith. Much of what they believe is cloaked in mystery. Don't worry, I won't get too far into it! But suffice to say that Christians have been aware of their attempts to liken themselves to us for the entirety of their existence. THAT is why Ed Rollins won't say, "Hey we're all Christians because we all serve Christ", because we "ALL" don't! The uninitiated are fooled by Romney saying "We believe as you do that Jesus is the Son of God". Sounds good if you don't know what's actually IN the bible concerning that point. Without violating your rule I'll dance around this delicately. The Bible SCOFFS at such an assertion and states that your "belief" in these FACTS is of no importance since the DEVIL also believes that Jesus is the son of God and won't be saved by that knowledge either ( James 2:18,19). In fact if you read Acts 19:13-15, an evil spirit actually KNOWS Jesus and that evil Spirit certainly is beyond "salvation". I realize that this may seem to conflict with the many passages of scripture that speaks about the necessity of "belief" as a component of salvation but I'm bound by o