David Shuster and Mika Brzezinski demonstrated on today's "Morning Joe" that there's no good-news Iraqi lemon they can't press into bad-news lemonade.
View video here.
Thanksgiving is a time for reconciliation, so let's show some sympathy for our liberal media friends. It's been a tough 24 hours for them. Yesterday, articles appeared in the New York Times and LA Times reporting the dramatically improved security situation in Iraq.
Today brings another blow, as Thomas Friedman suggests that beyond the military successes, there might be an informal kind of political accommodation going on in Iraq that he refers to as an "ATM peace."
That would be a real setback for the MSM, given its fall-back position that "there might be military progress but there's been no improvement on the political front."
But the MSM are a resilient bunch, and we're already seeing the outlines of its plan to deal with the current unpleasantness. Call it "yeah-butting."
First, Scott McClellan's excerpt from a book months away from publication is manna for an MSM starving for bad news. We'll see how much mileage the "Bush lied, people died" crowd can wring from it.
The Morning Joe panel engaged in a discussion today with MSNBC military analyst Jack Jacobs. The Medal of Honor recipient is anything but a Bush administration fan. But he also recognized the progress on the ground.
WILLIE GEIST [sitting in for host Joe Scarborough]: We're hearing at least anecdotally in the New York Times that people are going back to their homes in Baghdad, that it's getting safer. We're also seeing some statistics that say violence is down. Do you believe it?
JACK JACOBS: Oh yeah. There are a couple of places where things are much, much better. Anbar Province is one of them, which used to be the most dangerous place on the face of the earth, and is now extremely quiet. I thought it would take a lot longer to get Baghdad up to speed, but they're many neighborhoods in Baghdad that are very quiet too.
Shuster took the first shot.
DAVID SHUSTER: Jack, a lot of people are taking credit for the drop in violence. How much of it is due to the surge, and how much of it is due, for example in Anbar, to American forces making deals with former enemies, with tribal leaders who are responsible for killing Americans, but making deals with them and saying "OK, knock it off and we'll stop attacking you"?
Shuster seemed to be suggesting that this was an unfair way of winning. Does he demand bloodshed on both sides? Isn't another word for what he was describing something the MSM always preaches . . . diplomacy?
Jacobs wouldn't bail him out.
JACOBS: It's hard to say what percentage contributes to what, but it's all contributory to the reduction in violence.
Thanks for nuthin', Jack.
Later, it was Mika's turn. Finding the current good news unappealing, Brzezinksi firmly affixed the rear-view mirrors.
MIKA BRZEZINSKI: Two issues and two questions come out of this in retrospect. Number one, whether or not the precept for going to war was accurate and correct, and then number two, how it was executed.
This time, Jacobs was happy to oblige.
JACOBS: The precept and the context for going to war were completely fallacious . . . In terms of the execution, you're absolutely, positively correct. The execution was hideous.
For Mika, shades of Casablanca: "we'll always have no WMDs."
—Mark Finkelstein is a NewsBusters contributing editor and host of Right Angle. Contact him at mark@gunhill.net.
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Hey Jacobs, in
November 21, 2007 - 09:52 ET by ncstevemHey Jacobs, in retrospect maybe we shouldn't have fought WWII.
Our execution at Pearl Harbor and the Phillipines wasn't too good.
And of course we screwed up at Guadalcanal when the Navy turned tail and left the Marines stranded with minimal supplies after they landed.
The Allies didn't do a very good job when they landed on North Africa because they landed too far west to have an immediate impact on the Africa Corps.
The Sicily and Italy campaign was one mistake after another. Allowing the Germans to escape off Sicily through Messina and onto the mainland. The landing at Naples and Anzio. Being bogged down a the Monte Cassino.
Of course Tarawa was a bloodbath because of poor planning. The landing craft bogged down on the corral reefs at low tide which the Marines never knew were there because the island wasn't scouted properly.
The Army sustained excessive casualties on New Guinea because of poor planning and MacArthur's ego.
Would you like for me to continue or have I made the point?
Facts don't matter to these
November 21, 2007 - 10:48 ET by mattmFacts don't matter to these people. They either know all those things and choose to ignore them or once they learn the facts, they just ignore it and continue their anti-Americanistic rhetoric.
These are the people who have more respect for flag-burners than they do for "flag wavers" - a term of derision the Left invented to mock patriotism. They should all leave the country and settle down in North Korea, China or some other totalitarian utopia.
"Once I was a Liberal, then I grew up." - Publius
yes they do.
November 21, 2007 - 11:03 ET by professor truthFacts don't matter to these people. They either know all those things
and choose to ignore them or once they learn the facts, they just
ignore it and continue their anti-Americanistic rhetoric.
Why don't you present some real facts sometime??? Eh?
I was responding to NC's
November 21, 2007 - 11:13 ET by mattmI was responding to NC's post in which several facts about WWII were presented, thus demonstrating the vacuity of the Lefty naysayers...
Do you have any facts with which to dispute NC's post? No you don't. So you merely lash out with a typically childish "nyah nyah" type of remark. Thus illustrating the wisdom of the quote: "Once I was a Liberal, then I grew up."
Happy Thanksgiving.
"Why don't you present some
November 21, 2007 - 11:39 ET by bassndude"Why don't you present some real facts sometime???"
This childish taunt from a HS science teacher? Who is teaching who? Anyway, we would not expect someone who has never tasted the dirt nor smelled the smells of cordite smoke and blood of the battlefield to know. And we would never expect an professor(?) of science(?) to have any knowledge of history. Military history especially.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
bassman - truth in teaching
November 21, 2007 - 12:14 ET by Gary HallActually it reminds me of about a dozen on my daughter's teachers, here in the LA area during the past 8-10 years or so (she's a Sr now). But one really stands out on one issue - not to suggest that all in all, these teachers have no fear of lying about the facts day in and day out. My daughter was on top of reality back in 8th grade and informed me one day that her teacher was ranting on about Bush bombing in Afghanistan, and had said..ready? "When President Clinton was president we never bombed anybody."
I confronted this teacher. She insisted that Clinton never bombed anybody. I mentioned Kosovo. She said, "oh, that was NATO and was ordered by the UN." Yup, I had a little sheet on how Clinton actually did not get the resolution "he" wanted for the bombing - and a little sheet with statements from Jimmy Carter, Nelson Mandela, Michael Moor, Susan Sarandon and the Pope, condemning his bombing. She told me none of it could actually be true. I then gave her a list of the armaments ordered into the battlefield by Clinton - most during his 5 named campaigns in Iraq, Kosovo, Afghanistan, etc. (my favorite one being "Operation Bushwacker on June 26, 1993 in Iraq - I highlighted that one for her). Amongst the list of armanents were the list of the breakdown of where and when the 904 cruise missiles were launched into the battle scene.
I asked her to apologize to the class, or I would pursue her removal. She did apologize; with tears, my daughter said.
I'm quite sure that she has never been the same sense.
The HS teacher (2003) who wrote vile remarks about Bush and lied about how he was slashing Medicaid spending forcing millions of Americans to suffer (wrote, in red ink) it all the way around the border of an assignment of hers) was not so lucky. You know I'm not at the top of the pack with technology, but being able to scan in color and e-mail such a document to a Superindendent is really great these days. Bam - just like that. Gone. (;~>
Bravo, Gary. I assume
November 21, 2007 - 14:11 ET by maggieqpublicBravo, Gary. I assume your daughter’s grades didn’t suffer because her teachers didn’t want to hear from you!
Well done Gary. I have had
November 21, 2007 - 14:22 ET by bassndudeWell done Gary. I have had some simular experiences in the past. Always nice when you have teachers that teach the truth and not the liberal revisionist versions.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
Thank you Gary
November 21, 2007 - 16:13 ET by iveseenitallThank you, thank you, thank you Gary. There needs to be more parents like you. I have a ganddaughter in college. The lies, distortions, and misinformation in the texbooks and those coming from the mouths of the "professors" are worse than ever before. I know, I worked with these ignorant fools for four decades. As I've said before in this space, American "education" is one of the most important issues of our time, not only because of its importance to our kid's future, but also because left-wing bias is going unchecked and incompetent "teachers" continue to be hired and hardly ever fired. Moreover, America's apathy towards this is quite disturbing.
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
Woo Hoo, Gary!
November 21, 2007 - 19:49 ET by BlondeAnd here I thought you were just another "nice guy".
My admiration for you....just expanded by a thousandfold.
Way to go!
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Prof in regards to facts I
November 21, 2007 - 11:59 ET by ncstevemProf in regards to facts I would like to ask you just a couple of questions to see if you agree or disagree.
Since it's been shown repeatly that lower income tax rates increases economic activity and therefore the amount of tax revenue to the government, are you generally in favor of or opposed to the lowering of income tax rates.
Social Security in it's current form is unsustainable because of the increasing number of retirees who are living longer are receiving benefits from the system. Would you be in favor of individuals being allowed to divert a portion or all of their SSI taxes to a private account where they could earn a greater return on their money than the 1% they'll earn on their current SSI taxes?
Thanks for your feedback.
It's been a few hours.
November 23, 2007 - 01:56 ET by mattmIt's been a few hours... Here's a sample of what you can expect: http://www.naturesongs.com/cricket1.wav
Great points. I just
November 21, 2007 - 11:14 ET by Free ThinkerGreat points. I just finished reading a biography of Lincoln and the bashing he took from his critics, the newspapers, and some of the public during the civil war reminds me much of what we see today. His resolve and conviction to do the right thing, what was in the best long term interests of our country, regardless of the unsteady public opinion reminds me of our current president. History will judge this current war and our leaders generations from now and the opinions of people like those on Morning Joe will not be what is remembered.
we ousted Hussein with only
November 21, 2007 - 11:29 ET by TruthMongerwe ousted Hussein with only about 3000 US troop casualties
all while downsizing the US mil (trying to save money for more precious Democrat "education" debacles) no less
the management of Iraq's liberation was sheer genius, a military masterpiece - borne of decades of experience liberating countries from stifling left-wing evils of socialism, communism, dictatorship, terrorism...
if this war was managed hideously that also reflects on the coalition of course doesn't it - we didn't go it alone - there were 30 other nations in there as well
so the Brit military is hideous as well? I should ask my brother-in-law about that - a Major in her Majesty's engineering corps - he has had 3 tours in Iraq so far, or maybe his uncle - a retired British Naval officer - I'll ask them about our MSM's assertion that the British military did a absolutely "hideous job" in Iraq - see what they think of that...
Mark, also on Morning Joe
November 21, 2007 - 09:56 ET by RJYour piece shows how, with Joe Scarborough out, even his weak-tea presentation of the conservative side was absent.
Another instance was today's late segment with Aurienna Huffington. Several times, she either deliberately lied or just doesn't care what the truth might be.
More than once, she said the President deliberately lied to Scott McClellan, when McClellan said nothing of the sort. He actually said "the president didn't know it wasn't true."
Naturally, none of the three blatant liberals on the show challenged her mis-informaton/lies.
FOX....here comes some new viewers
November 21, 2007 - 10:06 ET by JayTeeIf all the news is Bad on Iraq, then people will grudgingly watch, but if the Alphabet Nets put out the "Yea, butt" news on Iraq while plenty of Great news is to be had, people are going to turn them off, channel surf, and go watch Fox report "Current News" on how good the American Military is doing.....
WWII found Americans dancing in the streets, but since "Victory" will never be officially announced, we will just have to Dance in front of Fox News.......to the Tune of daily good news on the Victory shaping up in Iraq. We have reached a turning point, and the Enemy is not welcome anymore in Iraq....by anyone.
Americans like winners, which is why we're so upset about Iraq not being a winning experience for the Military Sacrifice we were giving..........but that's changing faster than it can be reported.
What good is a Free Press, if it is a False Press ? David Foote GoE
Morning Joe's Butt-Heads
November 21, 2007 - 10:17 ET by CTAn utterly disgusting un-American crew on Morning Joe this morning, it made me want to flush the TV as an alternative to changing the channel.
un-American???
November 21, 2007 - 11:05 ET by professor truthYou really mean un-your views, don't you???Eh?
Sorry "perfesser" you're not qualified
November 21, 2007 - 15:00 ET by RJYour deranged postings shows that you have no clue what that means. Why, you're so clueless you won't even admit that "AGW" is as much a political issue as it is scientific.
The MSM on Iraq has become
November 21, 2007 - 10:59 ET by MassConservativeThe MSM on Iraq has become like the bad guy you see at the end of every action flick ever made. Desparately clinging on to something (any bad news from Iraq) in the hopes of saving their lives until eventually gravity (the facts from Iraq) are just too much to overcome and they plunge to their death.
They know that as the water carriers for the DNC an Iraq "quagmire" is key to propelling a democrat to the White House. Between being on the wrong side of the immigration issue vs a majority of Americans, their willingness to prop up one of the most vile women in politics as the standard bearer for the party, and a democratic led Congress still trying to snatch defeat from the hands of victory the Dems are in truble and the MSM knows it.
"There are scandals that need to be addressed. Republicans address them, Democrats re-elect them." - Tom Delay
quoting Tom Delay on ethics
November 21, 2007 - 11:08 ET by professor truth"There are scandals that need to be addressed. Republicans address them, Democrats re-elect them." - Tom Delay
Delay didn't have a single congressional investigation while in office.
Next, you'll quote Randy Duke Cunningham I suppose. Eh?
Does it even occur to your
November 21, 2007 - 11:22 ET by SaseboSailorDoes it even occur to your air-head that "professor truth" is an oxymoron??
He who hesitates is last.
Sasebosailor
November 21, 2007 - 19:38 ET by SlicksterI was thinking the same thing.
Greetings from Yokosuka.
Democracy
November 21, 2007 - 11:02 ET by KC MulvilleThe surge (good so far, long way to go) spells the difference between liberals and conservatives. The surge is a laboratory of democracy. The surge works from the outside in, and from the ground up. That’s why it’s working. The central government will be the last ones to jump aboard. Conservatives have always believed that democracy comes from the people, not the government. Government doesn’t create democracy; it’s just a convenient political mechanism to manage what’s already there. If democracy isn’t already there, government is useless.
As for the accusation that the tribal leaders are simply being bribed, so frickin’ what? I’ve advocated haggling with these people for a long time. Why am I not worried about this becoming extortion? Because I’ve always believed that the only thing keeping the Iraqis from becoming rich is their own private vendettas. If we can get them to stop the vendettas for just a short while, they’ll suddenly discover that they can be rich. When they’re swimming in oil, they won’t give a crap about our little bribes. Instead, they’ll see that if they get the oil flowing, it won’t be just the United States willing to pay; the Chinese will pay, India will pay, etc. Given a choice between our piddling little bribes and the hurricane of cash they can expect from the oil, they’ll choose the hurricane. And once the profits start coming in, they’ll avoid the vendettas on their own, without us having to pay anything.
All it takes is time. Wait it out. The payoff will be worth it. The world will have a stable flow of oil. The world will also see that the US can persevere. And if we can get that outcome with a couple bribes instead of getting our soldiers shot? Heckuva good deal.
Toy Soldiers Aplenty
November 21, 2007 - 11:51 ET by Captain RepusI was hoping for a little strategic planning from this televised session of military experts. The only one of them who has ever come within 6,000 miles of hostility (other than that directed to GWB) is Jacobs who, as a recipient of the MOH deserves respect, but has ZERO qualification as a military expert on anything other than the action he was cited for.
I am sick and tired of watching people who don't have a clue about anything military other than having watched Saving Private Ryan being presented as expert military consultants. The same is true on the Republican side and conservative programs. John McCain is revered as a military expert by his having been an airplane driver 40 years ago and being shot down, each cable network has their own private military consultant, few of whom have any background in high-level strategic planning or execution.
As the HDTV age is upon us..........
November 21, 2007 - 14:36 ET by JayTeeI would urge everyone to arm themselves in preparation to shooting your OLD analog TV during a MSM broadcast, as we convert to the new age of Digital TV signal transmission.
Most households have more than one TV, and when MSNBC or your not so favorite Liberal Journalists says something to an Armed citizen in his own Garage or local shooting range, I would urge a well placed slug (and bullet proofed Garage) into the MSM broadcast talking head, as "Therapy" for Conservatives, and as a way of throwing away a broken TV, vs. the option of tossing in the Garbage a perfectly working Analog TV set.
I"ll have enough old TV's to take out the full range of MSM alphabet Networks, if I can just get my local Gun range to put in some extension cords and cable hookups......I don't wanna violate the local neighborhood "Discharge of Firearms laws"......but I DO NEED Therapy after years of verbal Liberal assaults via MSM, and I hate throwing away working electronics.
What good is a Free Press, if it is a False Press ? David Foote GoE
Diplomacy that worked, apparently = peace?
November 21, 2007 - 12:18 ET by Gary HallI don't know Mark, I might've been willing to go one step past your view of:
It's starting to sound like one of those things the media likes to refer to as a "peace agreement."
Happy t-day
YES.THEY.WERE.FOUND.
November 21, 2007 - 12:50 ET by SFCMAC1) 1.77 metric tons of enriched uranium
In a joint Energy and Defense Department operation, 1.77 metric tons of low-enriched uranium and approximately 1000 highly radioactive sources were secured from Iraq's former nuclear research facility, packaged and then airlifted on June 23, the press statement said.
"This operation was a major achievement for the Bush Administration's goal to keep potentially dangerous nuclear materials out of the hands of terrorists," Energy Secretary Spencer Abraham said in the statement. "It also puts this material out of reach for countries that may seek to develop their own nuclear weapons. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3872201.stm
2) 1,500 gallons of chemical weapons agents
U.S. troops raiding a warehouse in the northern city of Mosul uncovered a suspected chemical weapons factory containing 1,500 gallons of chemicals believed destined for attacks on U.S. and Iraqi forces and civilians, military officials said Saturday.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/13/AR2005081300530.html
3) 17 chemical warheads containing cyclosarin (a nerve agent five times more deadly than sarin gas)
"Laboratory tests showed the presence in them of cyclosarin, a very toxic gas, five times stronger than sarin and five times more durable," Bieniek told Poland's TVN24 at the force's Camp Babylon headquarters.
"If these warheads, which were still usable, were used on a military base like Camp Babylon, they would have caused unforeseeable damage." http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/07/02/international1018EDT0516.DTL
and:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,124576,00.html
4) Over 1,000 radioactive materials in powdered form meant for dispersal over populated areas
"Along with 1.77 tons of enriched uranium, about 1,000 "highly radioactive sources" were also removed.
The material was taken from a former nuclear research facility on 23 June, after being packaged by 20 experts from the US Energy Department's secret laboratories." http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3872201.stm
5) Roadside bombs loaded with mustard and "conventional" sarin gas, assembled in binary chemical projectiles for maximum potency
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120137,00.html
The UN, Democrats, and Republicans knew of this. France, Germany, and Russia sold Iraq equipment for WMD development. They had these weapons right up until the war. Some were even looted and transported to Syria. Inspectors discovered them, destroyed some, and shipped others out of the country. We have uncovered facilities, materials, and rockets since the beginning of the invasion in 2003. It's been documented and reported.
I cannot believe that this is still a debatable issue.
"On the Eighth Day God Created the United States Army and the Devil Stood at Attention"
Awesome
November 21, 2007 - 15:34 ET by Gigantor"It takes two people to lie Marge"
"One to lie and one to listen...."
Great work SFCMAC! You see, this is something that would be pretty sweet if done for all of these areas of interest.. That is, compile this information (links, sources, excerpts, qoutes etc) and bundle them up into a neat section on this website so anyone could just click on it and viola, the WMD thing (as an example, the Plame Wilson "scandal" could be another) is there in all it's glory. I'm no website wizards so I do not know what it would take, but it sure would be sweet.
Liberals
November 21, 2007 - 15:57 ET by iveseenitall"Liberals" will never admit to your success unless you've done things their way. Pathetic contrarians who are never satisfied, they are not even worth dealing with. They are the enemy within. They'll even take credit for your success if you let them. If Hillary gets elected (God Forbid), just watch the praise and excuses for her foreign policy, successful or not.
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
Duh of the day
November 21, 2007 - 17:48 ET by acumenThe execution was hideous.
Yeah, why couldn't this war have gone super-swell like all other wars. (sarc off)
Let these doom and gloomers eat crow for Thanksgiving.
Here's something that should touch the heart of every American this Thankgiving holiday....even Prof Truther. Eh?
Happy Thankgiving to our military men and women and their families.