Matthews: Craig 'A Sexual Deviant'; Do Dem Prez Candidates Agree?

CBS: Cali Gay Marriage As 'Huge Victory for Equal Rights’

Matthews: Craig 'A Sexual Deviant'; Do Dem Prez Candidates Agree?

By Mark Finkelstein | August 28, 2007 - 17:49 ET

Chris Matthews, opening this afternoon's "Hardball":

View video here.

Matthews presumably labelled Craig "a sexual deviant" based not on the mere fact of his presumptive homosexuality, but on his engaging in the kind of public "cruising" to which the senator pleaded guilty in Minnesota.

I challenge Matthews to flatly ask the Democratic presidential contenders and other Dem leaders he encounters in coming weeks whether they share his view that all men who engage in such conduct are "sexual deviants." Should make for some illuminating TV as Dems walk a tightrope between public mores and the sensibilities of one of the Dem party's important constituent groups.

UPDATE -- Matthews snaps at Naomi Wolf: "don't come on this show and change the subject."

In recent weeks I've suggested that feminist Naomi Wolf might be America's most passive-aggressive woman and one of its most alarmist. On today's show Chris Matthews clearly got fed up with her self-promoting act and snapped at her. When Matthews asked Wolf what she thought the repercussions of the Craig scandal would be for the GOP, she deflected the question. Wolf instead went off on a pitch about how Mitt Romney would be hurt by his refusal to sign some declaration put forth by an online organization she's ginned-up as part of the marketing campaign for her paranoid screed "The End of America." The book's operating thesis is that the Bush administration is using the same tactics employed by the Nazis and other totalitarians to suppress democracy.

View video here.

After returning to the air, the pair claimed to have resolved their differences. But Matthews' great annoyance with this greatly annoying woman had been unmistakable.

—Mark Finkelstein is a NewsBusters contributing editor and host of Right Angle. Contact him at mark@gunhill.net.

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OMG, does the Democratic

August 28, 2007 - 17:57 ET by motherbelt

OMG, does the Democratic Party know that Chris Matthews thinks homosexuals are "sexual deviants"??????

Mark, I agree with your challenge. That would really be "Must See TV"!!!

I'll bet the ranch he will backpedal within 24 hours. He was "taken out of context" or some such nonsense. Or the homosexuality isn't deviant but sex in a public restroom is. Of course that is still a problem, since it is apparently a practice engaged in by many homosexuals. How many of the recent public figures "caught" in homosexual situations have been caught in public restrooms?

In fairness to Matthews, I'm

August 28, 2007 - 17:59 ET by Mark Finkelstein

In fairness to Matthews, I'm assuming he was not saying that all gays are deviants, but that this kind of "cruising" activity is deviant. Even so, it would seem to represent a fairly significant sub-set of gay culture, so that Matthews effectively branded many, many gays as deviants.

Matthews effectively

August 28, 2007 - 18:05 ET by motherbelt

Matthews effectively branded many, many gays as deviants.

Yes, he did, Mark, and as I said, it's going to be interesting to see him doing the backstroke....that is, if anyone ever calls him on it. ("and therein," as Shakespeare said, "lies the rub").

Most distressing for him is he won't be able to spin it, the way the libs did with the Catholic priests scandal, making it a problem of pedophilia instead of homosexuality.

Motherbelt, Your argument

August 28, 2007 - 18:19 ET by Leon

Motherbelt,

Your argument is invalidated since it's based on unfounded ( &archaic) stereotypes. Unless that is of course you have some stats documenting all of this gay public bathroom sex that I haven't seen. If so, please share.

He didn't say being gay was deviant. He said soliciting sex is deviant. Which it is. Sweet strawman though.

"He said soliciting sex is

August 28, 2007 - 19:17 ET by Khyris

"He said soliciting sex is deviant. Which it is"

So, no money was involved... so it wasn't prostitution...

Every time one adult says to another adult ... "Hey, wanna hook up?" that's solicitation.... That's deviant?

What would you guess is the % of consenting adults in the United States who have propositioned for sex; gay, straight, or other...

Surely you're not suggesting almost ALL adults are deviants? And that you agree with that? Wouldn't that run counter to the very definition of deviancy?

So why is the difference between a question, a wink, a nod, a finger beckon, or a foot touch relevent? All of these are solicitations of sex, it just so happens that the latter MOSTLY occurs between those who are ashamed of the solicitation because of the stigma put upon HOMOSEXUALITY.

If sex occurs without solicitation, not once but TWICE (ooh, double jeopardy) it is called RAPE.

By your logic, solicitation is deviant, therefore rape is normal? Well, at least it's not playing footsie! The horror!

How exactly would one spin that?

" some stats documenting all of this gay public bathroom sex that I haven't seen "

Well, the police officer seemed to have seen it often enough to arrest him for it with probable cause... how do you spin that?

leon slinks away on this,

August 29, 2007 - 11:29 ET by TruthMonger

leon slinks away on this, of course:)

As for the argument at

August 29, 2007 - 11:43 ET by Leon

As for the argument at hand,

I never said dudes are meeting up in bathrooms to have gay sex, I just said it's not a significant subset.

Two major points to consider:

1) Meeting up in a public restroom for sex is deviant and anyone that does it is deviant regardless of sexual orientation

2) From what I can gather most of these guys consider themselves to be straight (have families, girlfriends, etc.) which is why they are slinking around public restrooms trying to score some dudes

The question becomes are these guys considered part of the homosexual community or part of the straight community.

Who knows, I just think it's unfair to say that by calling this behavior deviant it means that you are calling gays as a whole deviant b/c a lot of them participate in gay public bathroom sex. Just not the case.

Just to clarify: "He said

August 29, 2007 - 15:32 ET by Khyris

Just to clarify:

"He said soliciting sex is deviant. Which it is"

but what you REALLY meant was:

"Soliciting sex in BATHROOMS is deviant"

Is that correct? I mean, there's a big difference between the two statements, and I just want to make sure I understand you clearly.

But I'm still not sure why that should be criminal ... I guess that it is since he was arrested, but the "should" part is what's really losing me.

Barroom is ok, Bathroom is not.... what about bathrooms in bars? Is that considered a public restroom for this distinction? Or is it private because it's private property?

These kinds of laws just have too much moral grey in how they are written even before they are interpreted/applied. =(

Leon, apparently there was

August 28, 2007 - 19:34 ET by motherbelt

Leon, apparently there was enough of this activity going on it this public restroom that the police knew it was a problem and were monitoring it.And although I don't have statistics, if this doesn't happen with some regularity, why do cops set up sting operations in restrooms? Surely they wouldn't spend their time doing that unless they were reasonably sure they would apprehend someone.

Mark, This bathroom

August 28, 2007 - 18:17 ET by Leon

Mark,

This bathroom cruising is an urban legend.

Are you really pushing this as a valid argument? Do you know a single gay person that cruises public restrooms for sex? Wow!

Soliciting sex in a bathroom is deviant behavior. Straight or gay, that behavior is wrong and creepy. I can't believe you perpetuating such a blatant stereotype and then using to make your argument.

and PS, Why is

August 28, 2007 - 18:20 ET by Leon

and PS,

Why is Newsbusters spamming my computer? Trying to download stuff onto my computer? What's with this blatant attack? Are you guys joking?

Urban legend? From the

August 28, 2007 - 18:23 ET by Mark Finkelstein

Urban legend? From the arresting police officer's official report:

"The Airport Police Department has received civilian complaints and has made numerous arrests regarding sexual activity in the public restroom."

Oh so Mark, I guess that

August 28, 2007 - 18:25 ET by Leon

Oh so Mark,

I guess that leads to the logical conclusion that a significant sub-set of the ENTIRE gay population is engaging in this behavior.

Your extrapolation from one minor example is valid? I can't believe that's your evidence.

Apparently So, Leon

August 28, 2007 - 19:18 ET by Blonde

Need yet ANOTHER example, Leon?

Here in lovely, liberal Broward County, Florida (you remember your little whino scenario, yes Leon?) it apparently is such a problem that the mayor of Ft. Lauderdale is considering taking certain, um, "steps".

In an article in the South Florida Sun-Sentinel last week, Naugle announced the city's plan to buy a $250,000 self-cleaning robotic toilet for beachgoers. This futuristic restroom will prevent 'homosexual activity' by flinging the door open based on a preset time limit. "Sometimes [public restrooms] are used for sexual activity -- most of it is men meeting men because it's same-sex people in the bathrooms,'' Naugle was quoted as saying by The Miami Herald.

Gee Leon, care to comment?

Sorry for the "gay agenda" link....but the local paper has apparently removed the original story.

Pretty funny, though. Another of Leon's theories shot down in glorious flames.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

I'm still waiting for

August 28, 2007 - 19:23 ET by Leon

I'm still waiting for someone to prove to me that this is the behavior of a SIGNIFICANT subset.

Several examples are not enough.

Would it be valid for me to argue that a SIGNIFICANT subset of the southern population engages in racist behavior? I can provide plenty of individual examples (i.e. KKK). Would that be a fair argument?

Stupid cloak...

August 28, 2007 - 19:25 ET by sarcasmo

Er...Closet, that is...(See my cloaked posts below.)
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

I see them

August 28, 2007 - 19:30 ET by Leon

I see them Sarc.

I think it may be going over a couple of heads.

Well, nobody...

August 28, 2007 - 19:34 ET by sarcasmo

Including you until now, showed any sign of seeing them. Anyway, believe it or not, I suspect homosexuals who are in the closet might have substantially-different sex lives than "out" homosexuals have, and that this incident is proof, but obviously WAY more homosexuals AND heterosexuals find public restrooms romantic than I'd have previously-imagined.
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

LOLOL:)

August 29, 2007 - 11:37 ET by TruthMonger

suddenly the left is down on bathroom cruising - this is just too funny!

the left should be rallying support for Craig's alleged lifestyle here - but they can't because he's a R and they need control of the senate to push the same gay lifestyle that they're bashing Craig for here:)!

love it

I'm not sure whether (or why??)??? + weird, it reappeared!

August 29, 2007 - 11:46 ET by sarcasmo

This is an actual reply to my post above, which dealt with the observable behavioral/arrest differences between closet homosexuals (esp. politicians -- both here in Brevard & nationwide!) and "out" homosexuals. The two types seem to behave quite differently, in my experience, so I said so.
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

PS Leon's post now appears again, I'll go reply to it!

It claims I can't reply to it because it doesn't exist! Weird...

August 29, 2007 - 11:53 ET by sarcasmo

Leon said, in the unreplyable comment above:

Sarc,

I think you could be on to something. Closeted homosexuals are much
more likely to have to resort to sex in non-traditional places.
However, I think it's disingenuous to argue that a significant subset
of gays trolls public bathrooms for sex. Which is what Mark was
arguing, which is what I was arguing against.

I disagree. I think a substantial subset of homosexuals are still in
the closet these days, and that therefore Mark may be right that lots
of them -- possibly even nonpolitician-homosexuals, I don't know! --
frequent mens-rooms in search of other men for sexual activity.

JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

Sarc, Valid point

August 29, 2007 - 11:57 ET by Leon

Sarc,

Valid point although we still can't make Mark's argument without knowing how many closeted men there are out there.

I asked the question above and I'd like to hear your input.

Are married/engaged/dating guys that are outwardly straight (except when cruising for secret gay sex) considered part of the straight community or part of the gay community?

Based on the provided articles it seems to me that Mark's argument should be revised to state a significant sub-set of the STRAIGHT population engages in public bathroom sex.

again leon what do numbers

August 29, 2007 - 12:04 ET by TruthMonger

again leon what do numbers have to do with this? it looks like you're trying to engineer something here - if you let the chips fall where they may you'll get where you're going alot faster...

Just wondering how you can call Craig deviant, but gay marriage not deviant? What is your moral authority to make this judgement based on here? Numbers?

TM, I haven't comment on

August 29, 2007 - 12:06 ET by Leon

TM,

I haven't comment on the deviance of anything other than cruising public restrooms for sex.

This is deviant behavior. That is the only topic at hand and the only argument that's been made.

Gay marriage is irrelevant to this discussion.

how do you know Craig was

August 29, 2007 - 12:13 ET by TruthMonger

how do you know Craig was cruising for sex?

innocent until proven guilty

he did not plead guilty to anything sexual

Tell that...

August 29, 2007 - 12:34 ET by sarcasmo

To his ol' buddy Mitt Romney! (Craig was cut-loose from the Romney campaign.)
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

As I discussed with Lion King this AM, Romney's action

August 29, 2007 - 13:45 ET by RJ

was correct. The Dems and the MSM intend to kill Craig with a death of a thousand cuts, and, as the press conference proved, they hope to drag along any Repubs they can catch in their net. Obviously, Romney is a main target.

Good for Romney for being strong enough to assess the situation and take appropriate action, rather than stubbornly backing Craig the way Bush probably would have done.

I consider them heterosexual

August 29, 2007 - 12:07 ET by sarcasmo

But that's because I have 0 "gaydar." My gay & female friends DO have "gaydar" and therefore know better than I do, so the men who cruise mensrooms are still homosexual/bi even if I don't know it personally! :) I'm just trying to think-back on whether I ever used to tap my foot in stalls -- I don't recall it, but if so, not-anymore! ;)

Also, for those who predict this will all be over soon, I hereby predict at least a month of tasteless jokes just from me! Get used to it and smile, this is good material -- especially considering my local pol BJ Bob's paving the way earlier this summer. Recall, he attempted with $20 what may well have been the only fiscally-conservative act of the Florida McCain campaign! Heh heh heh...
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

Oh and Sarc, Funny post

August 29, 2007 - 11:58 ET by Leon

Oh and Sarc,

Funny post title! I didn't get it at first. Ha :)

LOL sarc

August 29, 2007 - 11:58 ET by TruthMonger

I know the left desperately relies on their pathetic "nuance" to try and hide their vast myriad of fundamental hypocracies - but this event is just way too much for even these masters of BS to handle...

You can try to define a difference if you want to - there probably is - but the larger public view here is all about the ultra-pro-gay left hilariously trying to label Craig as deviant - and its just too damn funny...

TM, He was labled a

August 29, 2007 - 12:00 ET by Leon

TM,

He was labled a deviant for attempting to engage in sex in a public restroom.

He was not labled a deviant for being gay.

Public bathroom sex = deviant

That's all that's been said. This brands only those that engage in public restroom sex as deviant. Not all gays.

So why is it funny? Do you not consider trolling public restrooms for sex to be deviant behavior?

It's funny because the left

August 29, 2007 - 12:08 ET by TruthMonger

It's funny because the left champions the gay lifestyle, and pretty much sex with anyone anywhere as well - and now suddenly it's horrific (!) for some curious reason:) hee-hee-hee....

Innocent until proven guilty. Craig plead guilty to disorderly conduct - nothing about sexuality. So according to the law, and US principles of justice he is no deviant...

But even so if he was soliciting sex you should be defending him. Just telling you the public view here - you look ridiculous trying to label Craig as deviant - it's John Kerry nuancing all over again...

This info is for your benefit - not mine...

Several Examples not Enough?

August 28, 2007 - 19:35 ET by Blonde

How many Leon?

Ten? Twenty? You keep moving that liberal logic bar. Why don't you aim really high? 500? I'm sure we could all provide you with that many....in a couple of hours.

And what's with the "racist behaviour" dodge? Once again, misdirection on your part when you've been found to have your pants down around your knees....to most aptly describe your ever present debate, here....and particularly in light of this thread!

Nice liberal leaping leap of liberal illogic, once again Leon.

Troll on, dude. You are really shaming yourself here this evening.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

Please Leon, the anonymous

August 29, 2007 - 10:42 ET by winston smith

Please Leon, the anonymous gay bathhouse/public restroom sex is so well known in American culture. It's not some made-up stereotype. Do get a copy of Randy Shilts eye-opening book And The Band Played On. In it he chronicles the hedonistic gay bath house scene. He comes to believe that it was this promiscusous atmosphere in San Fran and NYC that was a precursor to the AIDS crisis in the U.S. Shilts was himself gay and supported many of the causes of the left. He was also a harsh critic of Reagan so you can hardly say he was right-biased.

Winston, We're not

August 29, 2007 - 11:51 ET by Leon

Winston,

We're not talking about gay bathhouses (which I admit were huge back in the day, but I think AIDS changed that behavior).

Cruising a public restroom for sex is the issue at hand. This is different than going to a bath house where the intended purpose is to have sex.

The reason cruising a public restroom for sex is deviant is b/c that is not it's intended usage and your behavior infringes on others' who would like to use that facility. This is not the case at a gay bathhouse.

Leon, if you read my post

August 29, 2007 - 20:52 ET by winston smith

Leon, if you read my post carefully you would have seen that I did mention **PUBLIC RESTROOMS**. Maybe you missed it. Read it again. I mentioned ***PUBLIC RESTROOMS*** because I had first-hand experience with members of Denver's gay community picketing for the right to have sex in public restrooms at Civic Center Park in 1992. I was visiting an old friend that year, and I personally witnessed the protests in the park and read the local papers quoting the Denver PD about arrests and incidents that took place in and around the park relating to sex in public places and lewd behavior.

Also, Ft. Lauderdale has been the scene of much news of late, because the mayor (Nagel, I think and a DEMOCRAT) has been leading the charge to stop the increasing incidents of gay sex in public restrooms. As you might guess, he has become the target of gay protests state-wide. Of course, the left of center MSM (with the excpetion of CNN, interestingly) didn't make too big a deal about it because they correctly assumed that it would cast the gay community in a negative light. But perverted gay sex *is* happening in public restrooms and in public places all over the U.S. There's even a gay magazine that "rates" the best Home Depot restrooms to have homo sex. And really, what makes you think that obsessed gay perverts would make any distinction between a bathhouse and a public restroom? Do a little research (google) next time before you post erroneous statements.

Winston, Jim Naugle is a

August 29, 2007 - 21:06 ET by Blonde

Winston,

Jim Naugle is a dem...but he's rather conservative and usually takes the (R) side of things.

He's an amusing mayor. Thankfully, it's the next town to the south of me...and I don't have to personally bear the ridicule he causes.

Having said that....your post to Leon is spot-on.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

Blonde, if you're watching

August 29, 2007 - 21:24 ET by winston smith

Blonde, if you're watching FOX News, H & C will be doing a piece on gays and public restroom sex in the next segment, WATCH!

Thanks, W. But I'm about

August 29, 2007 - 21:30 ET by Blonde

Thanks, W.

But I'm about out here...long day.

Is gay restroom sex some kind of new problem? Or is it just because some congresscritter with an (R) behind his name got busted?

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

Blonde

August 29, 2007 - 21:35 ET by botg

there are areas of Balboa Park where most people will not go in the public bathrooms (myself included) Also my father tells me that rest areas on 295 in Rhode Island have been closed for this reason

Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.

Bruce

August 29, 2007 - 21:39 ET by Blonde

Okay....

Color me naive and extremely careful.

I never stop on the highway...unless it's on the Florida Turnpike where there are always hundreds of people around. I guess I'm just a planner.

"Balboa Park"? Wow...that is soooo funny here.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

"Balboa Park"? Wow...that

August 30, 2007 - 19:36 ET by botg

"Balboa Park"? Wow...that is soooo funny here.

i did not even think of that when i posted; it is also home of the world-famous San Diego Zoo

Supreme Court, National Security, Borders, Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.

Blonde...

August 28, 2007 - 19:24 ET by LionKing

Example duly noted, but, as you are aware and as Mark noted, Leon is no interested in facts. He asked for one example and when he got it, he tried to change his story.

LK, i asked if he knew

August 28, 2007 - 19:31 ET by Leon

LK,

i asked if he knew anyone. Can you please show me where I asked for one example?

Thanks, Blonde. I

August 28, 2007 - 20:20 ET by motherbelt

Thanks, Blonde. I remembered seeing that story but didn't have time to do a search for it.

Also, where I lived in Florida, there was a beachfront park that was well-known as a gay hangout for casual, anonymous sex, and not inside restrooms either. After many many complaints from families and residents in the area who complained because they were not able to use the park because of what they might be exposed to, and exposing their kids to, the police began patrolling the area regularly and thoroughly. The activity eventually stopped.

Back At You, MB

August 28, 2007 - 20:29 ET by Blonde

Apparently we're going to have to try extra hard to provide a galaxy of illustrious examples here for Leon. Three, four, or five is not "several" enough for him.

I really could hardly care less about "deviant behaviour"....as long as it's kept out of sight of the public, and of course, children. It's not up to me what people do (or don't do)....just don't troll it in public (a la the lovely lib posters here).

But....I find Chrissy's "deviant" thing to be kind of funny, in light of the libs' definition of everything gay to be okay. This post is just going to become more amusing (hopefully) over the next few days as Chris the fool gets hammered from his pals on the left.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

Florida

August 28, 2007 - 21:20 ET by Brady

I've lived in Florida since 1990 (both the west coast and now the east) and know that you don't wander into the mangrove fringe unless you want an "encounter".

Because I like to fish the mangrove fringe for snook and because I'm a marine biologist who works in nearshore shallow waters, I have on more than one occassion happened upon activities in the mangroves that I don't care to elaborate upon. Suffice it to say that I walk and/or swim away quickly.

I have also on occassion when visiting the beach with my family, gone into a public restroom only to find a loiterer (sp?) eagerly hanging around.

Homosexual (it can't be gay cause fighting mosquitos during coitus can't be fun) or heterosexual encounters in public restrooms or anywhere that a child might see is by definition deviant.

Abomination

August 29, 2007 - 09:32 ET by cvgbuckeye

leon; homosexuality is deviant behavior and an abomination in nature.

If it is not, lets say that we snap our fingers and all man-kind immediately becomes homosexual: How many years will it take for humanity to disappear from the face of the earth? That would be easy to figure;;;;when was the last birth?

And yeh, I know: "THATS AN OLD WORN OUT POSITION!" So, that doesn't make it untrue!!!!!!

Further, you will notice that I use the word homosexual instead of other descriptions that are softer and more politically correct. Others with some courage should join me.

Mark F...

August 28, 2007 - 18:31 ET by LionKing

I guess when the troll asked for a single example he was expecting more than one.

LionKing, I didn't ask

August 28, 2007 - 18:35 ET by Leon

LionKing,

I didn't ask for one example. I said the whole bathroom cruising stereotype is bs. The idea that a significant subset of the gay population is engaging in public bathroom sex is an URBAN LEGEND.

It will take many more than one example to empirically assert this blatant stereotype.

One gay person

August 28, 2007 - 18:40 ET by LionKing

Leon asks: "Do you know a single gay person that cruises public restrooms for sex? Wow!"

Your words. I did not say it was fair or not. You asked for one...he gave you a link for one and still are b*tching about it.

Now he's got 3.

August 28, 2007 - 18:47 ET by sarcasmo

In addition to Craig, there's my homie BJ Bob, and as pointed-out below there's also George Michael. Give me time and I can probably produce more.
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

Sarc

August 28, 2007 - 19:43 ET by Blonde

Actually four. Maybe five by now.

But you know....that doesn't count.

Keep throwing the references up here...I want to prove to Leon that it's "not an urban legend".

Oh, what an inglorious topic to go down in flames over, Leon.

I am so enjoying this.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

Does Pee Wee count?

August 28, 2007 - 19:51 ET by LionKing

Does Pee Wee Herman count? What about the Hugh Grant (do not remember the details)?

George Michael.. Thanks, I

August 28, 2007 - 22:47 ET by motherbelt

George Michael.. Thanks, I was racking my brain trying to think of the singer that got picked up for trolling in a public restroom. I kept thinking Michael Bolton, but I knew that wasn't it. Had half of it right, tho. LOL

I asked Mark if he

August 28, 2007 - 18:48 ET by Leon

I asked Mark if he PERSONALLY knew a single gay person that cruises restrooms for sex.

I ask because I'm sure Mark has a gay friend or two. And I'll further bet they don't do weird things like that. Meaning it would stand to reason that regular gay people don't do this stuff. It's the weirdos. Just like straight weirdos do weird stuff.

I'm still awaiting a reply.

I've never asked the gay

August 28, 2007 - 18:52 ET by Mark Finkelstein

I've never asked the gay people I know about this. I will say that when I was an undergrad at Cornell, the campus police had to remove the doors to the stalls in the basement men's bathroom of Goldwyn Smith Hall on the Arts Quad because of repeated problems of this nature.

Mark, Residents of a

August 28, 2007 - 18:58 ET by Leon

Mark,

Residents of a dorm having sexual interaction in the dorm bathrooms is not the same as strangers carousing public restrooms for sex.

Are you really trying to argue that your claim concerning a significant sub-set of gays engaging in public restroom sex is fair or valid?

I can't believe your defending the usage of such a blatant stereotype.

Ok, if that's the way you're going to go then fine. I just thought you were a little more thorough than that. This entire post is frighteningly disingenuous and completely out of character for you. You're really going to extremes to downplay this incident.

Goldwyn Smith is not a dorm.

August 28, 2007 - 19:11 ET by Mark Finkelstein

Goldwyn Smith is not a dorm. On a big campus it's one of the biggest academic buildings, with public restrooms. This shall be my last response to you because I don't think you're interested in serious dialogue. I regard you as a troll.

Mark, My bad on the

August 28, 2007 - 19:16 ET by Leon

Mark,

My bad on the wrong assumption. I see Hall and think dorm. Regardless, your anecdotal story holds little statistical validity

You don't think I'm interested in serious dialogue? I think you just can't defend your usage of a blatant stereotype to make your argument that Matthews is slandering a significant subset of the gay population. Allow me to ask you another question. Do you think your gay friends would call soliciting sex in a public restroom deviant behavior? I think they would.

You're taking the behavior of a small percentage of a population and using it to generalize the entire population. that's called stereotyping and I'm pretty sure stereotypes aren't valid arguments.

Well no problem with bathroom sex in Craig's case.

August 28, 2007 - 19:26 ET by SportPolitics

The police report says there was a possible accidental foot bump with shoes on tapping (which I do naturally), and a waving gesture (also expected from must be friendly politicians), and placing one's roller luggage in the only spot it fits (everyone else does it all the time by neccessity), which now, somehow, is against the law, apparently.

I think it's all a big fat sham. This is the same republican that humiliated Al Gore and caught him lying outright in the global warming hearings.

I do not for a minute believe that the cop didn't know who this republican was, and don't for a second believe the cop is anything but a hardcore democrat, with his mission accomplished.

Were I the judge I'd have thrown the cop out of the courtroom and told him to have some evidence of wrongdoing next time he showed up.

Sports, Explain to me

August 28, 2007 - 19:29 ET by Leon

Sports,

Explain to me why he pleaded guilty.

If he did nothing wrong, why did he admit guilt?

Answer this before you go on your next irrelevant rant.

Answer for Leon the Lazy

August 28, 2007 - 19:32 ET by LionKing

Here is the Senator's answer to your question.

I'm waiting...

August 28, 2007 - 19:35 ET by sarcasmo

For Comedy Central's answer. :)
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

sarc...?

August 28, 2007 - 19:44 ET by LionKing

I thought Leon was one you guys...you know...Libertarian. Why is he all upset about some guy self-pleasuring? Maybe it hits too close to home.

Your right about Comedy Central...he does not want to know the truth...he just wants to be entertained and hear the liberal talking points ad nauseum.

"You" guys??

August 28, 2007 - 20:01 ET by sarcasmo

When Bill Clinton has described himself as "a libertarian," along with various authoritarian statists on the right, it takes a bit of the meaning out of the definition. I just think this stuff's hilarious, I think Comedy Central's treatment of BJ Bob was a slam-dunk (And we don't abbreviate the "BJ" part around these parts...).

I suspect it's likely the Comedy Central treatment of this incident will be similarly-hilarious, and it's time for the Daily Show right now. I also thought it was funny that The Onion anticipated all this by about a year. But my only point to Leon is about the differing behaviors of closeted vs "out" homosexuals, which has little-if-anything to do with liberty or libertarians (or Libertarians).
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

That's a HORRIBLE answer

August 28, 2007 - 19:43 ET by balboa

That's a HORRIBLE answer that I don't believe for one minute. How did he ever get elected if he thought the best way to expiditiously handle a potentially disastrous incident involving alleged lewd conduct was to just plead guilty?

No doubt it was stupid to plead

August 28, 2007 - 19:47 ET by LionKing

It definitely was stupid. Probably was some misdemeanor. Now that it has been made an issue, he may attempt to reverse the whole thing.

I am still amazed how the MSM has blown this way out of proportion. The whole thing is creepy, nonetheless.

Umm the CHARGE was "disorderly conduct"

August 28, 2007 - 21:28 ET by SportPolitics

Umm the CHARGE was "disorderly conduct".

It wasn't "solicitation", or "lewd behavior".

Basicaly the charge says what he did made the undercover officer "nervous", or was "unusual behavior".

So, I guess the explanation is " When I pled guilty the charge was not " trying to get blowing and getting blown and banged in a restroom by a same sex just met partner".

Yes, whateva. Bal and Leon can whine and pretend with the rest of the MSM that he begged for some ***, and it turned out to be an undercover officer, and that he is gay, and that he is a hypocrit.

I don't buy any of it, since the report I read and posted here and the LIES all over the place are more amazing than some pol "cruising" in airport bathroom.

BINGO If the left can

August 29, 2007 - 11:42 ET by TruthMonger

BINGO

If the left can shrug off Clinton's BJ in the white house I'm sure they can accomodate our fine senator's shoe tapping here, right?

It's the least they can do if they can't bring themselves to support alleged gay behavior like this - again don't they want to encourage this lifestyle?!?!?

What do you think GLBT lobby?

You seem to be CONSPICUOSLY ABSENT FROM THE MSM INTERVIEWS ON THIS:)?

Well Leon the reason is

August 28, 2007 - 20:47 ET by SportPolitics

he didn't do anything wrong, and he simply paid a fine thought it wouldn't get out to the public. He even said he didn't tell his family or friends, and he has stated that he is NOT gay. So, it's pretty clear to me why he just said ok, and paid the fine. I read the police report, and described it accurately here. I think he ought to sue the living daylights out of the arresting officer ( I would have ) and the department or airport security or whomever it is in charge. Again, accidentally hitting someones foot, then waving to them, as well as placing one's roller bag in the only spot it goes is NOT a crime in my book. This sure has proven "homophobia" to me. I'm a true believer now. He was also in another state, a dem state - Minnesota wasn't it, or was he ? So he would have to travel to and fro for court and the like, being from Idaho. A big hassle. Much easier just to give them the 500 bucks, leave the place and forget about it.

He even said he didn't tell

August 28, 2007 - 23:02 ET by motherbelt

He even said he didn't tell his family or friends, and he has stated that he is NOT gay. -SportPolitics

Not that there's anything wrong with that!!! LOL

really...my bad

August 28, 2007 - 18:53 ET by LionKing

I am sorry. I did not see the word PERSONALLY in the question. I guess Mark missed the word PERSONALLY also.

[Do really think that his friends, gay or otherwise, are going to tell Mark, "Dude, I can't hang with you tonight. I am going bathroom cruisin' at the Ritz...looking for some high class..."]

LK, Yes he did!

August 28, 2007 - 18:59 ET by Leon

LK,

Yes he did! haha.

I've never asked the gay

August 28, 2007 - 18:52 ET — Mark Finkelstein

Leon...Mark did what?

August 28, 2007 - 19:04 ET by LionKing

WTF are you talking about now?

He replied to your comment where you claimed to use the word PERSONALLY.

He knew what I meant, as per

August 28, 2007 - 19:06 ET by Leon

He knew what I meant, as per his answer.

I guess Mark missed the word PERSONALLY also.

So he didn't see the word personally because it wasn't there because it didn't need to be there because my question was clear enough for him which is why he answered it exactly as I had intended by referring to his own gay friends.

Got it? Grasp...grasp...grasp...just go down with the ship captain.

Leon...you really are retarded

August 28, 2007 - 19:14 ET by LionKing

In his original reply, he gave you a link as an example and you b*tched about it. Then you claim you were asking if he PERSONALLY knew of any...that's when he replied about his days at Cornell.

Apparently, you do not know how to follow a thread. Furthermore, you lack fundamental use of logic and have a severe deficiency in the use of the English language.

Troll on, McGoof.

[ Leon, the Todd Beamer of DKos..."Let's troll!"]

LK, You're not reading

August 28, 2007 - 19:32 ET by Leon

LK,

You're not reading properly. The link Mark posted was in response to my urban legend comment, not my question of whether or not he knew anyone.

thus, your entire above post is worthless.

Then see below.

August 28, 2007 - 18:55 ET by sarcasmo

I answered you, and I explained that anyone engaging in this is likely to be in the closet. No, the gay guys you and I know don't do it. Yes, gay guys who are in the closet do it.
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

Jim McGreevy anyone?

August 29, 2007 - 08:35 ET by smitty031

and he was Governor of freekin NJ!!

No, Leon...

August 28, 2007 - 18:36 ET by sarcasmo

But then, all the gays I know (AFAIK!) are "out" already. The "mens rooms are actually romantic instead of smelly" type behavior seems quite common this year among those homosexuals who are still "in the closet," especially if they're closeted homosexual politicians.
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

I like that link sarc

August 28, 2007 - 20:53 ET by SportPolitics

Nice to know a politician finds out that he doesn't get a lawyer, doesn't get read his rights, and that they question him and throw him in jail without perhaps even a phonecall.

Nice to know a politician finds out how the real world works, not the one they tell us fantasies about from their offices or floor speeches.

( I note that in Larry Craig's case, I read that "he was read his miranda rights". I find that absolutely amazing. )

Urban Legend?

August 28, 2007 - 18:40 ET by ArcherB

George Michael.

If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other. --George Orwell

Leon, Leon, Leon...

August 28, 2007 - 19:33 ET by Del Dolemonte

"Take it away, Leon, take it away!"-Bob Wills, 1936

Sorry, Leon, but I just found a bunch of examples showing this isn't an "urban legend" as you claim. Fort Lauderdale has had this problem, as has New York City, and the University of Southern California. 10 and 20 years ago, the same thing was happening at highway rest stops, and it got so bad some of them had to be closed down completely.

And it's not just gay people having sex in public restrooms, but also heterosexuals. One of the most lurid cases of the past 20 years happened in the Blue state of Hawaii, which has been run by Democrats for almost 50 years:

http://archive.salon.com/business/feature/2000/07/11/bishop/

excerpt:

"Gerard Jervis, a trustee of the Hawaiian philanthropic institution known as the Bishop Estate, was caught having sex in a public bathroom with a woman who happened to be a Bishop Estate lawyer. The next day, the lawyer committed suicide by inhaling fumes from her car in a closed garage. Jervis then attempted suicide a week later by taking an overdose of sleeping pills. He survived."

Leon,

August 28, 2007 - 19:37 ET by SportPolitics

it sure is an urban legend in this case, no doubt about it.

You place your bag by the door of the stall because it's the only spot it fits. You tap your feet when throned because it's a regular habit for many, keeps the circulation going besides being just a normal body function when thinking.

You bumb a neighbors foot because he's an uncover cop "offering his foot up to the next stall" because he's on a homophobic freak mission.

You wave kindly or pick up a dropped piece of paper, because your a politician and have been trained to offer your hand in shaking or waving all the time, and take a lot of notes.

This is now ILLEGAL in the psycho lawbooks.

No words, no sex, no asking for it, no offering it, no NOTHING.

Tap yer foot, bump a toe, wave kindly as if you didn't mean it, and off to jail ya go !

The new "mission" of the psycho democrats has been accomplished, they've "exposed" a republican... HAHAHAHAHHA...

GAWD HOW PATHETIC CAN IT GET ?

This is amazing, the democrats have been shrieking for YEARS that people can be busted on a whim, but now that IT ACTUALLY HAS HAPPENED, they declare "GUILTY HOMOSEXUAL CRUISER!"

You're a slimeball Leon. You don't even have the guts to admit the charges are ridiculous, and the guilty plea was to get out of the kookball airport legal village, and the cop is a lying democrat charlatan. "bag by the door to block the view" RETARDED LIAR.

Bathroom cruisin'...the urban legend???

August 28, 2007 - 19:37 ET by LionKing

Bathroom cruising...it is not a recent phenomenom.

You Would Be Incorrect, Leon

August 28, 2007 - 20:56 ET by stratman

Leon:

It's time for you to drop your stereotypes about gays and public restrooms. It happens with regularity and has occurred probably as long as there has been public restrooms. There indeed is a significant subset of gays having sex in public restrooms. Police would regularly bust gays having sex in public restrooms at a park off Lake Erie in Lakewood, Ohio in the 1980's as reported by the local papers. (Lakewood was reputed to be the #3 largest grouping of homosexuals in the country for a time.) A couple of bars in the Flats known for their hospitality towards gays frequently had gay sex occurring in the bathrooms - yep, transvestites would have sex with male-appearing gays in the "Ladies" room. Undoubtably, some of the males were bisexual, but we're focusing on male-male sex in this thread. Being in the "closet" is besides the point of the thread.

Here are some hits from google. This was like shooting fish in a barrel, or, should that be, as easy as having gay sex in a public bathroom, which appears to occur with alacritous frequency. Time for you to get a new paradigm.

http://gothamist.com/2005/12/08/gay_sex_stopped.php

http://gridskipper.com/travel/new-york/bathroom-sex-the-stories-032807.php

http://lavoice.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1209

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1885628/posts

http://www.montrealmirror.com/2006/072706/news1.html

http://www.undnews.com/cruizing.htm

http://www.dailybruin.ucla.edu/news/2007/apr/26/emtheres_more_casual_sex_you_may_thinkem/

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1589/is_n758/ai_20584710

Killing them with kindness isn't working. Time to get scrappy with the Donkeys.

I think the problem we're

August 29, 2007 - 00:02 ET by Tom1969ca

I think the problem we're having with this thread is Leon's continual use of the vaguely non-specific phrase "significant subset". Perhaps we could have a better dialogue if Leon would tell us what he considers to be a "significant subset". Is it 5% of the gay community? 50%? 90%?

Let's try some hypothetical numbers here: there are 300 million folks legally living in the United States. According to the gay community, 10% of people are gay - ie: 30 mi

Matthews: Craig 'A Sexual Deviant'; Do Dem Prez Candidates Agree?

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