Matthews: Craig 'A Sexual Deviant'; Do Dem Prez Candidates Agree?

Photo of Mark Finkelstein.

Chris Matthews, opening this afternoon's "Hardball":

Idaho Senator Larry Craig, cultural warrior of the right, stands naked tonight, exposed as both a sexual deviant and a world-class hypocrite.

View video here.

Matthews presumably labelled Craig "a sexual deviant" based not on the mere fact of his presumptive homosexuality, but on his engaging in the kind of public "cruising" to which the senator pleaded guilty in Minnesota.

I challenge Matthews to flatly ask the Democratic presidential contenders and other Dem leaders he encounters in coming weeks whether they share his view that all men who engage in such conduct are "sexual deviants." Should make for some illuminating TV as Dems walk a tightrope between public mores and the sensibilities of one of the Dem party's important constituent groups.

UPDATE -- Matthews snaps at Naomi Wolf: "don't come on this show and change the subject."

In recent weeks I've suggested that feminist Naomi Wolf might be America's most passive-aggressive woman and one of its most alarmist. On today's show Chris Matthews clearly got fed up with her self-promoting act and snapped at her. When Matthews asked Wolf what she thought the repercussions of the Craig scandal would be for the GOP, she deflected the question. Wolf instead went off on a pitch about how Mitt Romney would be hurt by his refusal to sign some declaration put forth by an online organization she's ginned-up as part of the marketing campaign for her paranoid screed "The End of America." The book's operating thesis is that the Bush administration is using the same tactics employed by the Nazis and other totalitarians to suppress democracy.

MATTHEWS: Don't come on this show and change the subject.

NAOMI WOLF: I'm sorry, I think it's important.

MATTHEWS: If you don't want to talk about Larry Craig, stop talking, OK? What do you think is the political significance of this? If you think it's none that's a good answer, but you can't just change the subject.

WOLF: I think it's none Chris, sorry, I think it's none.

MATTHEWS: Fine, let's move on.

View video here.

After returning to the air, the pair claimed to have resolved their differences. But Matthews' great annoyance with this greatly annoying woman had been unmistakable.

—Mark Finkelstein is a NewsBusters contributing editor and host of Right Angle. Contact him at mark@gunhill.net.


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OMG, does the Democratic

OMG, does the Democratic Party know that Chris Matthews thinks homosexuals are "sexual deviants"??????

Mark, I agree with your challenge. That would really be "Must See TV"!!!

I'll bet the ranch he will backpedal within 24 hours. He was "taken out of context" or some such nonsense. Or the homosexuality isn't deviant but sex in a public restroom is. Of course that is still a problem, since it is apparently a practice engaged in by many homosexuals. How many of the recent public figures "caught" in homosexual situations have been caught in public restrooms?

In fairness to Matthews, I'm

In fairness to Matthews, I'm assuming he was not saying that all gays are deviants, but that this kind of "cruising" activity is deviant. Even so, it would seem to represent a fairly significant sub-set of gay culture, so that Matthews effectively branded many, many gays as deviants.

Matthews effectively

Matthews effectively branded many, many gays as deviants.

Yes, he did, Mark, and as I said, it's going to be interesting to see him doing the backstroke....that is, if anyone ever calls him on it. ("and therein," as Shakespeare said, "lies the rub").

Most distressing for him is he won't be able to spin it, the way the libs did with the Catholic priests scandal, making it a problem of pedophilia instead of homosexuality.

Motherbelt, Your argument

Motherbelt,

Your argument is invalidated since it's based on unfounded ( &archaic) stereotypes.  Unless that is of course you have some stats documenting all of this gay public bathroom sex that I haven't seen.  If so, please share.

He didn't say being gay was deviant.  He said soliciting sex is deviant.  Which it is.  Sweet strawman though.

"He said soliciting sex is

"He said soliciting sex is deviant. Which it is"

So, no money was involved... so it wasn't prostitution...

Every time one adult says to another adult ... "Hey, wanna hook up?" that's solicitation.... That's deviant? 

What would you guess is the % of consenting adults in the United States who have propositioned for sex; gay, straight, or other...

Surely you're not suggesting almost ALL adults are deviants? And that you agree with that? Wouldn't that run counter to the very definition of deviancy?

So why is the difference between a question, a wink, a nod, a finger beckon, or a foot touch relevent?  All of these are solicitations of sex, it just so happens that the latter MOSTLY occurs between those who are ashamed of the solicitation because of the stigma put upon HOMOSEXUALITY.

If sex occurs without solicitation, not once but TWICE (ooh, double jeopardy) it is called RAPE.

By your logic, solicitation is deviant, therefore rape is normal?  Well, at least it's not playing footsie!  The horror!

How exactly would one spin that?

" some stats documenting all of this gay public bathroom sex that I haven't seen "

Well, the police officer seemed to have seen it often enough to arrest him for it with probable cause... how do you spin that?

leon slinks away on this,

leon slinks away on this, of course:)

As for the argument at

As for the argument at hand,

I never said dudes are meeting up in bathrooms to have gay sex, I just said it's not a significant subset.

Two major points to consider:

1)  Meeting up in a public restroom for sex is deviant and anyone that does it is deviant regardless of sexual orientation

2)  From what I can gather most of these guys consider themselves to be straight (have families, girlfriends, etc.) which is why they are slinking around public restrooms trying to score some dudes

The question becomes are these guys considered part of the homosexual community or part of the straight community. 

Who knows, I just think it's unfair to say that by calling this behavior deviant it means that you are calling gays as a whole deviant b/c a lot of them participate in gay public bathroom sex.  Just not the case.

Just to clarify: "He said

Just to clarify:

"He said soliciting sex is deviant. Which it is"

but what you REALLY meant was:

"Soliciting sex in BATHROOMS is deviant"

Is that correct?  I mean, there's a big difference between the two statements, and I just want to make sure I understand you clearly.

But I'm still not sure why that should be criminal ... I guess that it is since he was arrested, but the "should" part is what's really losing me.

Barroom is ok, Bathroom is not.... what about bathrooms in bars?  Is that considered a public restroom for this distinction? Or is it private because it's private property? 

These kinds of laws just have too much moral grey in how they are written even before they are interpreted/applied. =(

Leon, apparently there was

Leon, apparently there was enough of this activity going on it this public restroom that the police knew it was a problem and were monitoring it.And although I don't have statistics, if this doesn't happen with some regularity, why do cops set up sting operations in restrooms? Surely they wouldn't spend their time doing that unless they were reasonably sure they would apprehend someone.

Mark, This bathroom

Mark,

This bathroom cruising is an urban legend.  

Are you really pushing this as a valid argument?  Do you know a single gay person that cruises public restrooms for sex?  Wow!  

Soliciting sex in a bathroom is deviant behavior.  Straight or gay, that behavior is wrong and creepy.  I can't believe you perpetuating such a blatant stereotype and then using to make your argument.  

and PS, Why is

and PS,

Why is Newsbusters spamming my computer?  Trying to download stuff onto my computer?  What's with this blatant attack?  Are you guys joking?  

Urban legend? From the

Urban legend? From the arresting police officer's official report:

"The Airport Police Department has received civilian complaints and has made numerous arrests regarding sexual activity in the public restroom."

Oh so Mark, I guess that

Oh so Mark,

I guess that leads to the logical conclusion that a significant sub-set of the ENTIRE gay population is engaging in this behavior.

Your extrapolation from one minor example is valid?  I can't believe that's your evidence.

Apparently So, Leon

Need yet ANOTHER example, Leon?

Here in lovely, liberal Broward County, Florida (you remember your little whino scenario, yes Leon?) it apparently is such a problem that the mayor of Ft. Lauderdale is considering taking certain, um, "steps".

In an article in the South Florida Sun-Sentinel last week, Naugle announced the city's plan to buy a $250,000 self-cleaning robotic toilet for beachgoers.  This futuristic restroom will prevent 'homosexual activity' by flinging the door open based on a preset time limit. "Sometimes [public restrooms] are used for sexual activity -- most of it is men meeting men because it's same-sex people in the bathrooms,'' Naugle was quoted as saying by The Miami Herald.

Gee Leon, care to comment?

Sorry for the "gay agenda" link....but the local paper has apparently removed the original story.

Pretty funny, though.  Another of Leon's theories shot down in glorious flames.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

I'm still waiting for

I'm still waiting for someone to prove to me that this is the behavior of a SIGNIFICANT subset.

Several examples are not enough.  

Would it be valid for me to argue that a SIGNIFICANT subset of the southern population engages in racist behavior?  I can provide plenty of individual examples (i.e. KKK). Would that be a fair argument?

Stupid cloak...

Er...Closet, that is...(See my cloaked posts below.)
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

I see them

I see them Sarc.

:)

I think it may be going over a couple of heads.

Well, nobody...

Including you until now, showed any sign of seeing them. Anyway, believe it or not, I suspect homosexuals who are in the closet might have substantially-different sex lives than "out" homosexuals have, and that this incident is proof, but obviously WAY more homosexuals AND heterosexuals find public restrooms romantic than I'd have previously-imagined.
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

LOLOL:)

suddenly the left is down on bathroom cruising - this is just too funny!

the left should be rallying support for Craig's alleged lifestyle here - but they can't because he's a R and they need control of the senate to push the same gay lifestyle that they're bashing Craig for here:)!

love it

I'm not sure whether (or why??)??? + weird, it reappeared!

This is an actual reply to my post above, which dealt with the observable behavioral/arrest differences between closet homosexuals (esp. politicians -- both here in Brevard & nationwide!) and "out" homosexuals. The two types seem to behave quite differently, in my experience, so I said so.
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

PS Leon's post now appears again, I'll go reply to it!

It claims I can't reply to it because it doesn't exist! Weird...

  Leon said, in the unreplyable comment above:

Sarc,


I think you could be on to something. Closeted homosexuals are much
more likely to have to resort to sex in non-traditional places.
However, I think it's disingenuous to argue that a significant subset
of gays trolls public bathrooms for sex. Which is what Mark was
arguing, which is what I was arguing against.

I disagree. I think a substantial subset of homosexuals are still in
the closet these days, and that therefore Mark may be right that lots
of them -- possibly even nonpolitician-homosexuals, I don't know! --
frequent mens-rooms in search of other men for sexual activity.

JMR

 

 

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

Sarc,  Valid point

Sarc,

 Valid point although we still can't make Mark's argument without knowing how many closeted men there are out there.

I asked the question above and I'd like to hear your input.

Are married/engaged/dating guys that are outwardly straight (except when cruising for secret gay sex) considered part of the straight community or part of the gay community?

 Based on the provided articles it seems to me that Mark's argument should be revised to state a significant sub-set of the STRAIGHT population engages in public bathroom sex.

again leon what do numbers

again leon what do numbers have to do with this? it looks like you're trying to engineer something here - if you let the chips fall where they may you'll get where you're going alot faster...

Just wondering how you can call Craig deviant, but gay marriage not deviant? What is your moral authority to make this judgement based on here? Numbers?

TM, I haven't comment on

TM,

I haven't comment on the deviance of anything other than cruising public restrooms for sex.

This is deviant behavior.  That is the only topic at hand and the only argument that's been made.

Gay marriage is irrelevant to this discussion.

how do you know Craig was

how do you know Craig was cruising for sex?

innocent until proven guilty

he did not plead guilty to anything sexual

Tell that...

To his ol' buddy Mitt Romney! (Craig was cut-loose from the Romney campaign.)
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

As I discussed with Lion King this AM, Romney's action

was correct.  The Dems and the MSM intend to kill Craig with a death of a thousand cuts, and, as the press conference proved, they hope to drag along any Repubs they can catch in their net.   Obviously, Romney is a main target. 

Good for Romney for being strong enough to assess the situation and take appropriate action, rather than stubbornly backing Craig the way Bush probably would have done.

I consider them heterosexual

But that's because I have 0 "gaydar." My gay & female friends DO have "gaydar" and therefore know better than I do, so the men who cruise mensrooms are still homosexual/bi even if I don't know it personally! :) I'm just trying to think-back on whether I ever used to tap my foot in stalls -- I don't recall it, but if so, not-anymore! ;)

Also, for those who predict this will all be over soon, I hereby predict at least a month of tasteless jokes just from me! Get used to it and smile, this is good material -- especially considering my local pol BJ Bob's paving the way earlier this summer. Recall, he attempted with $20 what may well have been the only fiscally-conservative act of the Florida McCain campaign!  Heh heh heh...
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

Oh and Sarc, Funny post

Oh and Sarc,

Funny post title!  I didn't get it at first.  Ha :)

LOL sarc

I know the left desperately relies on their pathetic "nuance" to try and hide their vast myriad of fundamental hypocracies - but this event is just way too much for even these masters of BS to handle...

You can try to define a difference if you want to - there probably is - but the larger public view here is all about the ultra-pro-gay left hilariously trying to label Craig as deviant - and its just too damn funny...

TM, He was labled a

TM,

He was labled a deviant for attempting to engage in sex in a public restroom.

He was not labled a deviant for being gay.

Public bathroom sex = deviant

That's all that's been said.  This brands only those that engage in public restroom sex as deviant.  Not all gays.

So why is it funny?  Do you not consider trolling public restrooms for sex to be deviant behavior?

 

It's funny because the left

It's funny because the left champions the gay lifestyle, and pretty much sex with anyone anywhere as well - and now suddenly it's horrific (!) for some curious reason:) hee-hee-hee....

Innocent until proven guilty. Craig plead guilty to disorderly conduct - nothing about sexuality. So according to the law, and US principles of justice he is no deviant...

But even so if he was soliciting sex you should be defending him. Just telling you the public view here - you look ridiculous trying to label Craig as deviant - it's John Kerry nuancing all over again...

This info is for your benefit - not mine...

Several Examples not Enough?

How many Leon?

Ten?  Twenty?  You keep moving that liberal logic bar.  Why don't you aim really high?  500?  I'm sure we could all provide you with that many....in a couple of hours.

And what's with the "racist behaviour" dodge?  Once again, misdirection on your part when you've been found to have your pants down around your knees....to most aptly describe your ever present debate, here....and particularly in light of this thread!

Nice liberal leaping leap of liberal illogic, once again Leon. 

Troll on, dude.  You are really shaming yourself here this evening.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Please Leon, the anonymous

Please Leon, the anonymous gay bathhouse/public restroom sex is so well known in American culture. It's not some made-up stereotype.  Do get a copy of Randy Shilts eye-opening book And The Band Played On. In it he chronicles the hedonistic gay bath house scene. He comes to  believe that it was this promiscusous atmosphere in San Fran and NYC  that was a precursor to the AIDS crisis in the U.S.  Shilts was himself gay and supported many of the causes of the left. He was also a harsh critic of Reagan so you can hardly say he was right-biased.

Winston, We're not

Winston,

We're not talking about gay bathhouses (which I admit were huge back in the day, but I think AIDS changed that behavior).

Cruising a public restroom for sex is the issue at hand.  This is different than going to a bath house where the intended purpose is to have sex. 

The reason cruising a public restroom for sex is deviant is b/c that is not it's intended usage and your behavior infringes on others' who would like to use that facility.  This is not  the case at a gay bathhouse.

Leon, if you read my post

Leon, if you read my post carefully you would have seen that I did mention **PUBLIC RESTROOMS**. Maybe you missed it. Read it again.  I mentioned  ***PUBLIC RESTROOMS*** because I had first-hand experience with members of Denver's gay community picketing for the right to have sex in public restrooms at Civic Center Park in 1992. I was visiting an old friend that year, and I personally witnessed the protests in the park and read the local papers quoting the Denver PD about arrests and incidents that took place in and around the park relating to sex in public places and lewd behavior.

Also, Ft. Lauderdale has been the scene of much news of late, because  the mayor (Nagel, I think and a DEMOCRAT) has been leading the charge to stop the increasing incidents of gay sex in public restrooms. As you might guess, he has become the target of gay protests state-wide. Of course, the left of center MSM (with the excpetion of CNN, interestingly) didn't make too big a deal about it because they correctly assumed that it would cast the gay community in a negative light. But perverted gay sex *is* happening in public restrooms and in public places all over the U.S. There's even a gay magazine that "rates" the best Home Depot restrooms to have homo sex. And really, what makes you think that obsessed gay perverts would make any distinction between a bathhouse and a public restroom? Do a little research (google)  next time before you post erroneous statements.

Winston, Jim Naugle is a

Winston,

Jim Naugle is a dem...but he's rather conservative and usually takes the (R) side of things.

He's an amusing mayor.  Thankfully, it's the next town to the south of me...and I don't have to personally bear the ridicule he causes.

Having said that....your post to Leon is spot-on.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Blonde, if you're watching

Blonde, if you're watching FOX News, H & C will be doing a piece on gays and public restroom sex in the next segment, WATCH!

Thanks, W. But I'm about

Thanks, W.

But I'm about out here...long day. 

Is gay restroom sex some kind of new problem?  Or is it just because some congresscritter with an (R) behind his name got busted?

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Blonde

there are areas of Balboa Park where most people will not go in the public bathrooms (myself included)  Also my father tells me that rest areas on 295 in Rhode Island have been closed for this reason

Supreme Court,  National Security,  Borders,  Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.  

Bruce

Okay....

Color me naive and extremely careful.

I never stop on the highway...unless it's on the Florida Turnpike where there are always hundreds of people around.  I guess I'm just a planner.

"Balboa Park"?  Wow...that is soooo funny here. 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

"Balboa Park"?  Wow...that

"Balboa Park"?  Wow...that is soooo funny here. 

i did not even think of that when i posted; it is also home of the world-famous San Diego Zoo

Supreme Court,  National Security,  Borders,  Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.  

Blonde...

Example duly noted, but, as you are aware and as Mark noted, Leon is no interested in facts. He asked for one example and when he got it, he tried to change his story.

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

LK, i asked if he knew

LK,

i asked if he knew anyone.  Can you please show me where I asked for one example?

Thanks, Blonde. I

Thanks, Blonde. I remembered seeing that story but didn't have time to do a search for it.

Also, where I lived in Florida, there was a beachfront park that was well-known as a gay hangout for casual, anonymous sex, and not inside restrooms either. After many many complaints from families and residents in the area who complained because they were not able to use the park because of what they might be exposed to, and exposing their kids to, the police began patrolling the area regularly and thoroughly. The activity eventually stopped.

Back At You, MB

Apparently we're going to have to try extra hard to provide a galaxy of illustrious examples here for Leon.  Three, four, or five is not "several" enough for him.

I really could hardly care less about "deviant behaviour"....as long as it's kept out of sight of the public, and of course, children.  It's not up to me what people do (or don't do)....just don't troll it in public (a la the lovely lib posters here).

But....I find Chrissy's "deviant" thing to be kind of funny, in light of the libs' definition of everything gay to be okay.  This post is just going to become more amusing (hopefully) over the next few days as Chris the fool gets hammered from his pals on the left.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Florida

I've lived in Florida since 1990 (both the west coast and now the east) and know that you don't wander into the mangrove fringe unless you want an "encounter".

Because I like to fish the mangrove fringe for snook and because I'm a marine biologist who works in nearshore shallow waters, I have on more than one occassion happened upon activities in the mangroves that I don't care to elaborate upon. Suffice it to say that I walk and/or swim away quickly.

I have also on occassion when visiting the beach with my family, gone into a public restroom only to find a loiterer (sp?) eagerly hanging around.

Homosexual (it can't be gay cause fighting mosquitos during coitus can't be fun) or heterosexual encounters in public restrooms or anywhere that a child might see is by definition deviant. 

Abomination

leon; homosexuality is deviant behavior and an abomination in nature.

If it is not, lets say that we snap our fingers and all man-kind immediately becomes homosexual: How many years will it take for humanity to disappear from the face of the earth? That would be easy to figure;;;;when was the last birth?

And yeh, I know: "THATS AN OLD WORN OUT POSITION!" So, that doesn't make it untrue!!!!!! 

Further, you will notice that I use the word homosexual instead of other descriptions that are softer and more politically correct. Others with some courage should join me. 

Mark F...

I guess when the troll asked for a single example he was expecting more than one.

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

LionKing, I didn't ask

LionKing,

I didn't ask for one example.  I said the whole bathroom cruising stereotype is bs.  The idea that a significant subset of the gay population is engaging in public bathroom sex is an URBAN LEGEND.

It will take many more than one example to empirically assert this blatant stereotype.

One gay person

Leon asks: "Do you know a single gay person that cruises public restrooms for sex? Wow!"

Your words. I did not say it was fair or not. You asked for one...he gave you a link for one and still are b*tching about it.

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

Now he's got 3.

In addition to Craig, there's my homie BJ Bob, and as pointed-out below there's also George Michael. Give me time and I can probably produce more.
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

Sarc

Actually four.  Maybe five by now.

But you know....that doesn't count.

Keep throwing the references up here...I want to prove to Leon that it's "not an urban legend".

Oh, what an inglorious topic to go down in flames over, Leon.

I am so enjoying this.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Does Pee Wee count?

Does Pee Wee Herman count? What about the Hugh Grant (do not remember the details)?

George Michael.. Thanks, I

George Michael.. Thanks, I was racking my brain trying to think of the singer that got picked up for trolling in a public restroom. I kept thinking Michael Bolton, but I knew that wasn't it. Had half of it right, tho. LOL

I asked Mark if he

I asked Mark if he PERSONALLY knew a single gay person that cruises restrooms for sex.  

I ask because I'm sure Mark has a gay friend or two.  And I'll further bet they don't do weird things like that.  Meaning it would stand to reason that regular gay people don't do this stuff.   It's the weirdos.  Just like straight weirdos do weird stuff.  

I'm still awaiting a reply.

I've never asked the gay

I've never asked the gay people I know about this. I will say that when I was an undergrad at Cornell, the campus police had to remove the doors to the stalls in the basement men's bathroom of Goldwyn Smith Hall on the Arts Quad because of repeated problems of this nature.

Mark, Residents of a

Mark,

Residents of a dorm having sexual interaction in the dorm bathrooms is not the same as strangers carousing public restrooms for sex.

Are you really trying to argue that your claim concerning a significant sub-set of gays engaging in public restroom sex is fair or valid?

I can't believe your defending the usage of such a blatant stereotype.

Ok, if that's the way you're going to go then fine.  I just thought you were a little more thorough than that.  This entire post is frighteningly disingenuous and completely out of character for you.  You're really going to extremes to downplay this incident.

Goldwyn Smith is not a dorm.

Goldwyn Smith is not a dorm. On a big campus it's one of the biggest academic buildings, with public restrooms. This shall be my last response to you because I don't think you're interested in serious dialogue. I regard you as a troll.

Mark, My bad on the

Mark,

My bad on the wrong assumption.  I see Hall and think dorm.   Regardless, your anecdotal story holds little statistical validity

You don't think I'm interested in serious dialogue?  I think you just can't defend your usage of a blatant stereotype to make your argument that Matthews is slandering a significant subset of the gay population.  Allow me to ask you another question.  Do you think your gay friends would call soliciting sex in a public restroom deviant behavior?  I think they would.  

You're taking the behavior of a small percentage of a population and using it to generalize the entire population.  that's called stereotyping and I'm pretty sure stereotypes aren't valid arguments.

Well no problem with bathroom sex in Craig's case.

The police report says there was a possible accidental foot bump with shoes on tapping (which I do naturally), and a waving gesture (also expected from must be friendly politicians), and placing one's roller luggage in the only spot it fits (everyone else does it all the time by neccessity), which now, somehow, is against the law, apparently.

 I think it's all a big fat sham. This is the same republican that humiliated Al Gore and caught him lying outright in the global warming hearings.

 I do not for a minute believe that the cop didn't know who this republican was, and don't for a second believe the cop is anything but a hardcore democrat, with his mission accomplished.

 Were I the judge I'd have thrown the cop out of the courtroom and told him to have some evidence of wrongdoing next time he showed up.

 

 

 

Sports, Explain to me

Sports,

Explain to me why he pleaded guilty.

If he did nothing wrong, why did he admit guilt?

Answer this before you go on your next irrelevant rant.

Answer for Leon the Lazy

Here is the Senator's answer to your question.

I'm waiting...

For Comedy Central's answer. :)
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

sarc...?

I thought Leon was one you guys...you know...Libertarian. Why is he all upset about some guy self-pleasuring? Maybe it hits too close to home.

Your right about Comedy Central...he does not want to know the truth...he just wants to be entertained and hear the liberal talking points ad nauseum.

"You" guys??

When Bill Clinton has described himself as "a libertarian," along with various authoritarian statists on the right, it takes a bit of the meaning out of the definition. I just think this stuff's hilarious, I think Comedy Central's treatment of BJ Bob was a slam-dunk (And we don't abbreviate the "BJ" part around these parts...).

I suspect it's likely the Comedy Central treatment of this incident will be similarly-hilarious, and it's time for the Daily Show right now. I also thought it was funny that The Onion anticipated all this by about a year. But my only point to Leon is about the differing behaviors of closeted vs "out" homosexuals, which has little-if-anything to do with liberty or libertarians (or Libertarians).
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

That's a HORRIBLE answer

That's a HORRIBLE answer that I don't believe for one minute. How did he ever get elected if he thought the best way to expiditiously handle a potentially disastrous incident involving alleged lewd conduct was to just plead guilty?

No doubt it was stupid to plead

It definitely was stupid. Probably was some misdemeanor. Now that it has been made an issue, he may attempt to reverse the whole thing.

I am still amazed how the MSM has blown this way out of proportion. The whole thing is creepy, nonetheless.

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

Umm the CHARGE was "disorderly conduct"

Umm the CHARGE was "disorderly conduct".

It wasn't "solicitation", or "lewd behavior".

 Basicaly the charge says what he did made the undercover officer "nervous", or was "unusual behavior".

 So, I guess the explanation is " When I pled guilty the charge was not " trying to get blowing and getting blown and banged in a restroom by a same sex just met partner".

Yes, whateva. Bal and Leon can whine and pretend with the rest of the MSM that he begged for some ***, and it turned out to be an undercover officer, and that he is gay, and that he is a hypocrit.

 I don't buy any of it, since the report I read and posted here and the LIES all over the place are more amazing than some pol "cruising" in airport bathroom.

BINGO If the left can

BINGO

If the left can shrug off Clinton's BJ in the white house I'm sure they can accomodate our fine senator's shoe tapping here, right?

It's the least they can do if they can't bring themselves to support alleged gay behavior like this - again don't they want to encourage this lifestyle?!?!?

What do you think GLBT lobby?

You seem to be CONSPICUOSLY ABSENT FROM THE MSM INTERVIEWS ON THIS:)?

Well Leon the reason is

he didn't do anything wrong, and he simply paid a fine thought it wouldn't get out to the public. He even said he didn't tell his family or friends, and he has stated that he is NOT gay. So, it's pretty clear to me why he just said ok, and paid the fine. I read the police report, and described it accurately here. I think he ought to sue the living daylights out of the arresting officer ( I would have ) and the department or airport security or whomever it is in charge. Again, accidentally hitting someones foot, then waving to them, as well as placing one's roller bag in the only spot it goes is NOT a crime in my book. This sure has proven "homophobia" to me. I'm a true believer now. He was also in another state, a dem state - Minnesota wasn't it, or was he ? So he would have to travel to and fro for court and the like, being from Idaho. A big hassle. Much easier just to give them the 500 bucks, leave the place and forget about it.

He even said he didn't tell

He even said he didn't tell his family or friends, and he has stated that he is NOT gay. -SportPolitics

Not that there's anything wrong with that!!! LOL

really...my bad

I am sorry. I did not see the word PERSONALLY in the question. I guess Mark missed the word PERSONALLY also.

[Do really think that his friends, gay or otherwise, are going to tell Mark, "Dude, I can't hang with you tonight. I am going bathroom cruisin' at the Ritz...looking for some high class..."]

 

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

LK, Yes he did! 

LK,

Yes he did!  haha.

I've never asked the gay

August 28, 2007 - 18:52 ET — Mark Finkelstein

I've never asked the gay people I know about this. I will say that when I was an undergrad at Cornell, the campus police had to remove the doors to the stalls in the basement men's bathroom of Goldwyn Smith Hall on the Arts Quad because of repeated problems of this nature.

Leon...Mark did what?

WTF are you talking about now?

He replied to your comment where you claimed to use the word PERSONALLY.

He knew what I meant, as per

He knew what I meant, as per his answer.  

I guess Mark missed the word PERSONALLY also.

So he didn't see the word personally because it wasn't there because it didn't need to be there because my question was clear enough for him which is why he answered it exactly as I had intended by referring to his own gay friends.

Got it?  Grasp...grasp...grasp...just go down with the ship captain.

Leon...you really are retarded

In his original reply, he gave you a link as an example and you b*tched about it. Then you claim you were asking if he PERSONALLY knew of any...that's when he replied about his days at Cornell.

Apparently, you do not know how to follow a thread. Furthermore, you lack fundamental use of logic and have a severe deficiency in the use of the English language.

Troll on, McGoof.

[ Leon, the Todd Beamer of DKos..."Let's troll!"]

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

LK, You're not reading

LK,

You're not reading properly.  The link Mark posted was in response to my urban legend comment, not my question of whether or not he knew anyone.

thus, your entire above post is worthless.

Then see below.

I answered you, and I explained that anyone engaging in this is likely to be in the closet.  No, the gay guys you and I know don't do it. Yes, gay guys who are in the closet do it.
JMR


Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

Jim McGreevy anyone?

and he was Governor of freekin NJ!!

No, Leon...

But then, all the gays I know (AFAIK!) are "out" already. The "mens rooms are actually romantic instead of smelly" type behavior seems quite common this year among those homosexuals who are still "in the closet," especially if they're closeted homosexual politicians.
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

I like that link sarc

Nice to know a politician finds out that he doesn't get a lawyer, doesn't get read his rights, and that they question him and throw him in jail without perhaps even a phonecall.

 Nice to know a politician finds out how the real world works, not the one they tell us fantasies about from their offices or floor speeches.

( I note that in Larry Craig's case, I read that "he was read his miranda rights". I find that absolutely amazing. )

Urban Legend?


This bathroom cruising is an urban legend.


Are you really pushing this as a valid argument? Do you know a single gay person that cruises public restrooms for sex? Wow!

George Michael.

 

 

If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other. --George Orwell

Leon, Leon, Leon...

"Take it away, Leon, take it away!"-Bob Wills, 1936

Sorry, Leon, but I just found a bunch of examples showing this isn't an "urban legend" as you claim. Fort Lauderdale has had this problem, as has New York City, and the University of Southern California. 10 and 20 years ago, the same thing was happening at highway rest stops, and it got so bad some of them had to be closed down completely.

And it's not just gay people having sex in public restrooms, but also heterosexuals. One of the most lurid cases of the past 20 years happened in the Blue state of Hawaii, which has been run by Democrats for almost 50 years:

http://archive.salon.com/business/feature/2000/07/11/bishop/

excerpt:

"Gerard Jervis, a trustee of the Hawaiian philanthropic institution known as the Bishop Estate, was caught having sex in a public bathroom with a woman who happened to be a Bishop Estate lawyer. The next day, the lawyer committed suicide by inhaling fumes from her car in a closed garage. Jervis then attempted suicide a week later by taking an overdose of sleeping pills. He survived."

Leon,

it sure is an urban legend in this case, no doubt about it.

 You place your bag by the door of the stall because it's the only spot it fits. You tap your feet when throned because it's a regular habit for many, keeps the circulation going besides being just a normal body function when thinking.

 You bumb a neighbors foot because he's an uncover cop "offering his foot up to the next stall" because he's on a homophobic freak mission.

 You wave kindly or pick up a dropped piece of paper, because your a politician and have been trained to offer your hand in shaking or waving all the time, and take a lot of notes.

 This is now ILLEGAL in the psycho lawbooks.

 No words, no sex, no asking for it, no offering it, no NOTHING.

 Tap yer foot, bump a toe, wave kindly as if you didn't mean it, and off to jail ya go !

 The new "mission" of the psycho democrats has been accomplished, they've "exposed" a republican... HAHAHAHAHHA...

 GAWD HOW PATHETIC CAN IT GET ?

 This is amazing, the democrats have been shrieking for YEARS that people can be busted on a whim, but now that IT ACTUALLY HAS HAPPENED, they declare "GUILTY HOMOSEXUAL CRUISER!"

 You're a slimeball Leon. You don't even have the guts to admit the charges are ridiculous, and the guilty plea was to get out of the kookball airport legal village, and the cop is a lying democrat charlatan. "bag by the door to block the view" RETARDED LIAR. 

 

Bathroom cruisin'...the urban legend???

Bathroom cruising...it is not a recent phenomenom.

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

You Would Be Incorrect, Leon

Leon:

It's time for you to drop your stereotypes about gays and public restrooms.  It happens with regularity and has occurred probably as long as there has been public restrooms.  There indeed is a significant subset of gays having sex in public restrooms.  Police would regularly bust gays having sex in public restrooms at a park off Lake Erie in Lakewood, Ohio in the 1980's as reported by the local papers.  (Lakewood was reputed to be the #3 largest grouping of homosexuals in the country for a time.)  A couple of bars in the Flats known for their hospitality towards gays frequently had gay sex occurring in the bathrooms - yep, transvestites would have sex with male-appearing gays in the "Ladies" room.  Undoubtably, some of the males were bisexual, but we're focusing on male-male sex in this thread.  Being in the "closet" is besides the point of the thread.

Here are some hits from google.  This was like shooting fish in a barrel, or, should that be, as easy as having gay sex in a public bathroom, which appears to occur with alacritous frequency.  Time for you to get a new paradigm. 

http://gothamist.com/2005/12/08/gay_sex_stopped.php

http://gridskipper.com/travel/new-york/bathroom-sex-the-stories-032807.php

http://lavoice.org/index.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1209

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1885628/posts

http://www.montrealmirror.com/2006/072706/news1.html

http://www.undnews.com/cruizing.htm

http://www.dailybruin.ucla.edu/news/2007/apr/26/emtheres_more_casual_sex_you_may_thinkem/

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1589/is_n758/ai_20584710

Killing them with kindness isn't working.  Time to get scrappy with the Donkeys.

I think the problem we're

I think the problem we're having with this thread is Leon's continual use of the vaguely non-specific phrase "significant subset". Perhaps we could have a better dialogue if Leon would tell us what he considers to be a "significant subset". Is it 5% of the gay community? 50%? 90%?

Let's try some hypothetical numbers here: there are 300 million folks legally living in the United States. According to the gay community, 10% of people are gay - ie: 30 million. Half of them will be lesbians, who seem to be absent from the discussion, so we'll leave them out (ie: 15 million gay men). So, if only 5% of gay men are cruising America's public washrooms, that's 750,000 people.

I think three-quarters-of-a-million people looking for hookups in bathrooms is a pretty significant number, even if it's only a small part of the gay community as a whole.

As I've been writing this, I think I've identified Leon's straw man: the issue isn't how prevalent the act is or isn't ("significant subset"), but the nature of the crime itself. No one disputes that the abuse of children by members of the Catholic priesthood is a tragedy, but the Catholic News Service reports that four percent of priests who served between 1950-2002 were accused of these crimes (no conviction figures given.)

Is 4% a "significant subset"? If so, then at least we have a starting point for the discussion. If not - if 4% is not a number worthy of our attention - then why make such a big deal about these accusations? I mean, hey - that means that 96% of priests did nothing wrong! Why focus on such a small percentage?

No one is suggesting that the majority of gay men are cruising bathrooms; the fact that it is happening at all is the problem. Even Leon can't deny that it's happening at all...

~~~

Leadership is a potent combination of strategy and character. But if you must be without one, be without the strategy.

In the land of statistics,

In the land of statistics, the evidence of gay bathroom sex occuring throughout the country over a number of years as reported by MSM is proof of statistical significance, ie it is extremely unlikely that gay bathroom sex is a chance event, meaning it was planned by at least one participant.

As to the colloquial usage of "significance" to denote a number X, unless it is the same two males having gay bathroom sex in all the various locations reported throughout the years by the MSM, then there is a percentage of gays that "perform" in this manner and that number based on extrapolation would indeed be "significant".

Sociologically speaking, gay bathroom sex is significant for the cause-effect it has on society:  community leaders, law enforcement, legal entities, straights and the majority of gays that do not participate in the practice are all affected by this behaviour.

Medically, as well as societally, gay bathroom sex is another vector for the transmission of sexually transmitted diseases including HIV and hepatitis which can have tremendous personal, public and monetary consequences.  That this behaviour involves strangers further complicates the health care issues and adds a further layer of "significance" to the equation.

While I agree that there has been parsing of terminology, and I agree that Leon has been using tangential arguments to distract the discussion, not knowing the actual percentage of participants in gay bathroom sex by the entire gay population is unimportant for the sake of the discussion.  It happens often enough so as not to be random unintentional occurences. 

Killing them with kindness isn't working.  Time to get scrappy with the Donkeys.

Leon's head up his ass. Again.

It appears your head is up your ass, as usual Leon. Better not go into any airport bathroom stalls and tap your feet.

Even George Michael thinks you're talking through your backside on the subject. Please, wake me up before you go, go...

Washington Blade
Let’s go outside
George Michael’s latest tabloid scandal raises questions about the ‘culture’ of cruising

KATHERINE VOLIN
Friday, August 11, 2006

Eighties pop star George Michael’s latest tabloid scandal is raising questions about the role of cruising in gay male culture.

Last month, Michael was photographed by paparazzi emerging from the woods in London’s Hampstead Heath — a gay cruising site — after an alleged sexual encounter with another man. When confronted by photographers, Michael blamed gay “culture” for his behavior.

“Are you gay?” British tabloid “News of the World” quoted Michael as asking the photographer who snapped pictures of him after allegedly engaging in a sex act with a middle-aged, unemployed van driver. “No? Then fuck off. This is my culture.”

Cruising, or anonymous sex in public places, has long been part of the gay male experience

ROB WEISS, A GAY social worker and therapist, says he considers anonymous sex to be more an issue of gender than sexual orientation.

“Certainly, cruising and anonymous sex is endemic to gay culture,” Weiss says

Check out my latest YouTube...but only if you support the troops and their mission: Better Men Than Me/The Battle For Fallujah

Stop the profanity

Disagree with Leon all you want there is no need to use profanity here though.

Bathroom solicitation does happen

And it is deviant behavior, gay or straight.

Mark's point is valid and I would further add that it strikes me as unlikely that Matthews would refer to a Democrat who had engaged in this behavior as "deviant."

Leon... You

Leon...

You wrote:  "This bathroom cruising is an urban legend."

Interstate 26 runs from Charleston SC then straight through Colubia SC then crosses into NC at the base of the Blue Ridge mountains, then straight through Asheville NC, and finally crossing the TN line and ending just outside of Johnson City TN. There are quite a few rest areas along this route, but there is one that got a lot of attention around here a few short years ago. The one just outside of Asheville NC was well known as a hangout for gays looking for sex. All you had to do was walk into the bathrooms and there would be men just hanging out looking for action. The problem got so bad that they hired guards to watch the bathrooms, and when this did not work they brought in the police en masse. After quite few arrests they finally got these bathrooms cleaned out of these deviants.

Urban legend my ass!

Get Email updates from Fred http://socialnet.imwithfred.com/email_alert_july_26.html

I don't know if "deviant"

I don't know if "deviant" is the right term. "Reckless"? "Sleazy"? "Promiscuous"?

I would have said sleazy or

I would have said sleazy or promiscuous. But Matthews plainly said "deviant." Now let him explain himself.

Agree

This is being played up.Politics you have to love it.Not!

Do you think GLAAD will

Do you think GLAAD will rush to the defense of Senator Craig and will burn Chrissy at the stake?

 

GLAAD will let Craig twist in the wind

"Do you think GLAAD will rush to the defense of Senator Craig and will burn Chrissy at the stake?"

No. Gay activists will never defend anyone they perceive as a "hypocrite" if it will get an enemy out of the way.

When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.

Chrissy...ask about other politicians

Chrissy...why not ask the leading Dem prez hopefuls about the sexual proclivities of the former POTUS?

[Note: Might be too close to home for Hillary, then again, probably not.]

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

When Dems do it, it's

When Dems do it, it's "mainstream". When Republicans do it, it's being a "sexual deviant". Nice hypocrisy.

Chrissy...it take one to

Chrissy...it take one to know one........get closer to the camera Chrissy!!!!

-

lol

Watch out, that's harassment!

Drooling deviant Matthews calling the Craig pot Matthews

It is always refreshing to hear Democrats call homosexuals deviants especially the drooling "please move into the camera closer hot stuff babe" Chris Matthews.

Being a horn dog pervert is ok with Matthews, being a horn dog Geraldo Rivera sexing anything female is ok and running a brothel out of Barney Frankville is ok, but Craig is a deviant.

I do hope to hear the Democrats weigh in on this.....come on Hillary tell us from a bi sexual standpoint, come on Obama from your sodomite pulpit tell us how Matthews is right gays are perverts and the lovely hermaphrodite Edwards can tell us about perversion.

Nothing like liberals to spike the ball on a winning issue and end up getting it back into the gonads.

 

*HIC IACET ARTORIVS REX QVONDAM REXQVE FVTVRVS

His comments won`t bother

His comments won`t bother his lib fan base in the least. Just the opposite will happen. They will applaud him.

this is not panning out

this is not panning out well for the left...hypocracy overload - even two faced masters like Matthews has his head fricking spinning now...

As the undisputed gay cruising champs of the world the left has essentially neutered themselves on this whole episode - pun enthusiastically intended:)

So my guess is that in a day or two the left will just have to STFU on the whole thing and maybe try to high gas prices again:) hee-hee-hee...

I would sue Matthews

Craig has a great lawsuit against him.  He wasn't even charged with a sexual act! 

Pam, He has nothing. 

Pam,

He has nothing.   

Soliciting sex in a bathroom is illegal.  You aren't covered for illegal acts.  Matthews described his behavior as deviant.  Again, to reiterate, it is deviant.

Leon loooves that word "deviant"

...I wonder if he thinks Craigslist, where he says "you can get anything, even young men", is deviant.    ;^>

Only the deviant stuff RJ

Only the deviant stuff RJ

Is that your favorite part, leon?

Actually, I was being serious.  Since you've made up your mind about bathroom solicitation being deviant, I wonder what else you classify as "deviant" behavior. 

For example, regarding Craigslist (which you seem to know way too much about when it comes to "getting anything you want") you say "only the deviant stuff"....what, exactly, does that mean?

Certainly anything

Certainly anything illegal.

RJ, do you really not use Craigslist?  Ever?   That's really astounding to me.  I guess it's more of a city thing.

Man, you're missing out.  It's great.  

Once again, you jump to conclusions, Leon

....what a big surprise that is. 

I've been using Craigslist for years, ever since my daughter in NYC turned me on to it.

But I don't have any interest at all in the areas you seem to know too much about.

RJ,  But you know they

RJ, 

But you know they exist. 

Which is all I've indicated. What do you mean I know too much? You don't have to enter those areas but you know what goes on in there.  Gosh.  Annoying.

Leon, you jump to conclusions yet again

"you know they exist" (at Craigslist) is wrong again.

The only things I know about Craigslist are the things I want to do, like buy/sell items, help my daughter sublet her apartment, etc. 

It seems to me you have to be either (sexually) curious to go looking around in those areas...or you're "looking for things you want to do....."

But I don't have any

"But I don't have any interest at all in the areas you seem to know too much about."

I didn't jump to a conclusion.  If you've seen craiglist then you've been to the homepage and the links to the deviant areas are right next to the links for regular areas.  You would have seen the links had you been to craigslist which would mean that you know those areas exist and you would reasonably be able to assume what kind of stuff goes on in there.  

So either you haven't ever been to craigslist or you're lying about your actual knowledge of craigslist.  So which is it?

What basis do you have for calling me a liar, Leon?

Because I don't use Craigslist the same way you do?   I actually use Craigslist almost daily, looking for certain items to buy.  I NEVER look at anything on the site but what I logged on for.  I have no clue as to what you call "deviant areas", but even if I had seen them, why would I "know what kind of stuff goes on there"?

So, since I'm not lying, it's time to apologize, Leon. 

As for you're jumping to conclusions, I've called you out for twice jumping to conclusions on this thread, and your last post makes the third time you've done so.  It's right there on the thread and you deny it?  Wow.  Way to argue like a leftist.  Just deny what's right in front of you.

RJ, You're still

RJ,

You're still lying.  The personals section.  Right below the community and housing sections and right next to the for sale section.

Basically right in the center left of the homepage.

Impossible to miss.  

Last opportunity to apologize, Leon

Like the guy said to his jackass, "that's twice."

If anyone doesn't believe me

If anyone doesn't believe me that you're lying about not ever seeing that there's a personals section on Craigslist, then all they need to do to see that my charge is correct is to go to craigslist.org.

Impossible to deny.  You lie.

That's three

You're done.

Oh, if only...  The dogs

Oh, if only... 

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

Chris..."If Only"

Don't even get me started.

I had a crazy day, I'm in a crazy mood...and I'd probably be banned here for life if I really posted what I'm thinking.

But "if only" gave me a great, great laugh.

So THANKS! 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

If the editors are looking on

I won't be repeatedly called a liar by this jerk of a Troll. 

If the site cannot control his behavior, you may as well remove my account, because I won't sit quietly by.

BTW, Leon

BTW, Leon, I just looked at the Craigslist homepage (I have it on my "favorites") and the only thing listed there are the "personals."   There's no indication of the "deviant" areas you insist are there (you actually said "the deviant areas are right next to the links for regular areas"), unless you're now changing your story and claiming that "personals" means the same thing as "deviant."

If that's true, why would I know it, unless I opened those pages?   There's lots of pages on Craigslist that I've never opened.

I'm still expecting your apology.

 

It is so nice to see Leon

It is so nice to see Leon frowning on the gay lifestyle...

Welcome back to your brain Leon! Please stay awhile if you can:)

TM,  Public restroom sex

TM,

 Public restroom sex is not the gay lifestyle. 

 It's the lifestyle of gay men pretending to be straight. 

Cruising restrooms/public areas for sex is deviant.  Regardless of sexual orientation.

Oh leon - you just will not

Oh leon - you just will not give up will ya

bravo for trying man, bravo

You deserve the bravo my

You deserve the bravo my good man for trying to contend that Matthews was insulting all gays.

Nice try.  Not surprising, just another Republican apologists downplaying the illegal/deviant/perverted behavior of their leaders. 

I agree that Principles can be a pesky thing when you put loyalty above all else.

well thanks - he did insult

well thanks - he did insult all gays - it's my opinion against yours, which results in a tie i guess - so high five!

He has nothing because he is

He has nothing because he is a public figure and Matthews is toooo retarded to form in his mind the malice that is required.  Being a retard is an absolute defense to the malice requirement.

-

Matthews is toooo retarded

... as evidenced by his drooling.

He has a case

Leon, Craig was not charged with soliciting for sex.  Matthews can call him many things, but calling him a sexual deviant is slander.

They don't care Pam

He is guilty of desiring to hump male *** no matter what you say, no matter the lack of any evidence. These people have given in to the lib msm spin machine that twisted their minds around their own self-professed abhorrence of gay conduct. They are a little fiddle stringing away in their own delightful reverie over the matter.

 Facts have nothing to do with it. Charges have nothing do with it. His "gay ***" has everything to do with it, and the gigantic pro-law-enforcement mindset seals the deal no matter what for them.

 Like the little punk cop said when he called Dispatch " we got one", that's the ONLY thing that matters to them. The Duke case taught them ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. This is "their baby", and kneeling before their lib masters in this case is their pleasure, and they will PAY for it, $20 or more for the priveledge, just like their little link shows another has.

Words

What exact words did he use to solicit sex?

He didn't use any words well99

The right wing religious freak jobs are on their witch-hunt, and the demoleft lib news is playing them little a ******** fiddle.

 They've been spinning "catgut feeling" tune for days now nonstop, with their own self-percieved cop sense.

 LOL - Blown away by the lib spin machine, in full torch in the streets mode... what a JOKE.

Welcome to the wonderful

Welcome to the wonderful world of NBC.  Now that Hillary has proclaimed her testimony of Christ and her religion can we get her exposed on NBC for being a lesbian?  How about NBC do an article on her participating in covering up Bill's sexual molestations and rapes?  How about the sexual activities of her daughter?  Is there nothing NBC won't do to smear republicans.

 

Who cares if Craig is a homosexual.  I don't care.  I am religious and I don't approve of homosexuality as a life style but I certainly wouldn't condem Craig if he were a homosexual.

 

Matthews thinks that all he has to do is be more outrageous than Olberman and maybe he will get a raise and more viewers.   NO WAY.  He is not quick enough, bright enough and is pretty much a has been on the way out of national television. 

 

His next stop is the sewage treatment plant as he is sucked from the sides of the toilet where he dwells on NBC after a flush along with the rest of the $$$Ht in the bowl.  

 

See you Chris.

See you Chris? For what

See you Chris?

For what exactly?  Describing illegal behavior as deviant? 

I don't get it.   

NB posters need to check what happened before condemning Craig

How about some of the rest of you check what happened according to the police idiot report before going on a crazed homosexual witchhunt ?

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/08/gop_senator_larry_craig_arrested_for_lewd_conduct.php

"

Craig then entered the stall next to Karsnia’s and placed his roller bag against the front of the stall door.

“My experience has shown that individuals engaging in lewd conduct use their bags to block the view from the front of their stall,” Karsnia stated in his report. “From my seated position, I could observe the shoes and ankles of Craig seated to the left of me.”

Craig was wearing dress pants with black dress shoes.

“At 1216 hours, Craig tapped his right foot. I recognized this as a signal used by persons wishing to engage in lewd conduct. Craig tapped his toes several times and moves his foot closer to my foot. I moved my foot up and down slowly. While this was occurring, the male in the stall to my right was still present. I could hear several unknown persons in the restroom that appeared to use the restroom for its intended use. The presence of others did not seem to deter Craig as he moved his right foot so that it touched the side of my left foot which was within my stall area,” the report states.

Craig then proceeded to swipe his hand under the stall divider several times, and Karsnia noted in his report that “I could ... see Craig had a gold ring on his ring finger as his hand was on my side of the stall divider.”

Karsnia then held his police identification down by the floor so that Craig could see it.

“With my left hand near the floor, I pointed towards the exit. Craig responded, ‘No!’ I again pointed towards the exit. Craig exited the stall with his roller bags without flushing the toilet. ... Craig said he would not go. I told Craig that he was under arrest, he had to go, and that I didn’t want to make a scene. Craig then left the restroom.”

In a recorded interview after his arrest, Craig “either disagreed with me or ‘didn’t recall’ the events as they happened,” the report states.

Craig stated “that he has a wide stance when going to the bathroom and that his foot may have touched mine,” the report states. Craig also told the arresting officer that he reached down with his right hand to pick up a piece of paper that was on the floor.

“It should be noted that there was not a piece of paper on the bathroom floor, nor did Craig pick up a piece of paper,” the arresting officer said in the report."

 

GOOD GOD THE DEMOCRATS HAVE PLAYED EACH AND EVERY ONE OF YOU FOR IGNORANCE AND STUPIDITY ONCE AGAIN.

GAWD YOU FOOLS MAKE ME ANGRY.

"

I don't understand how tapping your foot on the bathroom floor, or waving to the negihbor is "lewd misconduct".
rofl - I guess there is a whole underground "signalling" system for this sort of thing.
Nonetheless, I sometimes tap my feet on the hard tile bathroom floor ( not anymore! yikes! ) , as I'm sure others do. I can't say I've waved under the stall to someone next door, but if they did or talk or say something who knows a person might do that.
I don't know if this congressman is guilty, but then again I'm not up on all the "signals for lewd hookups" ... LOL
Wow.
Now tapping a foot and waving a hand is "the means for your arrest".
I think that's wrong."

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2007/08/craig_issues_statement_i_should_not_have_pled_guilty.php

Ok, let me get this straight. The tiny stalls, that you can't sit down in to use unless you put your roller luggage up against the front door after you close it, "signals" to these bright homophobic police officers, that someone wants to "engage in lewd conduct" ? Just remind everyone in the airport and restaurants to NOT ever have a rollerbag, or better yet, to put it on their LAP as they sit down. I mean that was the very FIRST clue I had that this is possibly a STUPID SHAM. Where else do you put a roller bag in one of those stalls ? Next to the toilet where you roll it all on the wee on the floor ? lol That doesn't make any sense that it's a signal, there is nowhere else to put the stupid roller bag.
Second, tapping ones foot is now a "crime" ? Or in the case of a tall person, their foot accidentally hitting the fatso donut eaters chubby ankle spread wide "to offer himself to people who want lewd misconduct" is a crime ?
THIRD, what was the cop doing moving his foot "up and down " ?
FOURTH, the congressman WAVED under the stall, a "freindly gesture" afyer bumping someone accidentally if you ask me.
FIFTH, the homohpobe officer never says he said anything, or heard anything said.... so neither party "vocally offered lewd conduct".
So what do we have here?
Frankly it's a bit scary to think that tapping one's foot, accidentally bumping someone, putting your roller luggage in the only spot it fits, and waving in a friendly gesture is now "AGAINST THE LAW".
I'm sorry, the congressman MAY be a "lewd solicitor" but NOT by this "evidence", 9/10ths of it manufactured in the lying cops mind.
LIE: I've noticed it's a signal when they put their roller bag by the front of the stall".
HEY FOOL - THAT'S THE ONLY PLACE IT FITS, DUMMY.
So then the cop "spreads em" into the area close to or in the next stall to show "he is offering himself"... gets his foot bumped, and gets a friendly "hand wave"... and THEN TIME FOR THE JACKBOOTED THUG TO BUST 'EM !
rofl - Ya know, if I hadn't read this crap I wouldn't believe it.
It's just AMAZING what is "illegal" in this society of psychos and liars nowadays. I suppose the first thing is, how stupid does the cop think the public is when he says "a bag placed next to the door blocks the view of the stall".... ? UMMM- WHERE ELSE CAN A PERSON PUT IT, YOU LYING MORON ?

________________________________

 

It's no wodner republicans are canned from office, their hardcore conservative supporters NEVER EVEN CHECK THE FACTS when they are accused of something.

 Just pile on in psycho homo bashing.

GREAT JOB LOSERS!

Sports, Craig was the

Sports,

Craig was the one that pleaded guilty, remember? 

He admitted his behavior was illegal.   He admitted he broke the law. 

Nobody got played for a fool except for Craig.

Well,

Gosh, of course he did.

Don't you know? That's what all "good lil Republicans" do when confronted by evil people with an agenda- roll over and expose your belly so you can be quickly eviscerated. Just ask Alberto Gonzales, Karl Rove or Tom Delay. Republicans refuse to stand up for themselves or anyone else in their party, no matter how innocent of any wrongdoing the person might be. Whereas Democrats will *only* admit their own wrongdoing when dragged kicking and screaming by a reluctant media. Even then, you'll either get a quick explaining-away by them and their peers, or it'll be totally ignored and melt away into obscurity.

Sporty

Not to give it all away from the ladies room side of the story....but we wave under the stall all of the time when the paper dispenser is empty.

Sheesh....you guys ought to carry your own tp around.

I'm still not sure whether this is a manufactured "scandal" or not....but I have surely had my eyes opened here today.

I know what NOT to do if I ever have to bust into the men's room again at the stadium or bar when the ladies room is out of order.

Sheesh! 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

lol blonde

Ha, I have my tiny military TP packs from my service buddies for just such occassions. Not much worse than single ply Scotts sandpaper.

Blonde, we have the same

Blonde, we have the same problem here in Naple's public bathrooms.

They are everywhere!  WATCH OUT!    Whew!  You almost stepped on one.

Go figure

I just posted two minutes ago asking for some real information and I gotta say thank you for this.

Everybody is told to keep their belongings close to them anytime they are in a public place such as an airport and knowing how small those stalls are, where else could he have put his carry on?

The foot tapping?  again, those are some small stalls.  The hand gesturing - geez, where to start?  What type of gesture was it, how long did it go on for?

And nothing said?!?!?!!?  Man, I am confused by the entire thing.

Ahaa ty kdizzydaze

Good questions. I doubt we will get the answers.

No claim of any vocal solicitation either.

Another "strange" part of it is the mention that ~ he tapped his foot even though there were other people in the restroom.... ( as if he didn't care who was there )...

Implying he was so crazed for cruising sex he could care less who else was in the restroom.

 It's got the SEVERE odor of BS.

 Report also states he argued with what the officer said happened. Now the officer didn't claim much at all. I imagine the argument was over :

liar " Now, when you tapped yer foot that meant you wanted some, right, we know that".

LC: " Uh, no, I was, well people tap their foot like that all the time, some call it a nervous habit. I had no idea I was even doing it. "

liar " Awww. aArghhh. I don't buy that for a minute. You were soliciting me for SEX, you were CRUISING weren't you, you freaking pervo !"

LC: " No actually I was taking a "dump" as you say in these classy parts. "

liar: Well we know your type.

LC: Umm, were you expecting to crawl under the stall door next ? How exactly , since there is a separation wall, and the room below it is about 12" or less to the ground, did you expect to "hook up " ?

lair : I didn't want it, you did ! You SOB ! How DARE you say it was me !

____________________________________

Well, who knows, we won't ever know.

I guess if the cop had waited till he was in the same stall ....

 Is that a duck and roll move needed? Maybe the cop was so fat he could never get under the stall door.

 Now, since the bag was "blocking" view --- why exactly would a view need to be blocked - with just one person there taking a crap ? And, why would he block the view being the only one in there ? Wouldn't a person have to get themselves and someone else into the SAME stall ? I dunno, does the other guy lay on ground sideways with his drawers down and his feet sticking out toward the sinks ? What exactly is the "procedure" the cop thought was going to take place ? You'd have to move the bag to get in the same stall with him.

It's BULLCRAP.

One would want to block the view of 4 feet on the floor of the same stall. Those bags are 1/3rd or 1/2 the width of a stall, they wouldn't block view of feet or anything else, including the slot in the door hinge area or the seam on the latch side.

 So anyway, it's so GOOFY, I just don't buy it.

It's always changing.

Wait...I'm confused now. Are Democrats and liberals for gays or against gays.It's hard to keep track because Matthews seemed angry in that clip.

Weren't the Democratic Presidential candidates just at an event sponsor by a gay right group?  Are they deviants?

 

Victory in Iraq.

Newt for President.

Rule of Thumb

Rule of thumb:

If it hurts Republicans if it's considered "bad", then it's bad.

If it helps Democrats if it's considered "good", then it's good.

Does this help to clear up any confusion?

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

I think I have it now.

 Are you saying Barney Frank,Jim McGreevey,Gerry Studds...no problem but Mark Foley and Larry Craig are definite scandals?

That doesn't seem hardly fair.

 

Victory in Iraq.

Newt for President.

Well, at least with the

Well, at least with the media, it works that way. You were asking how they decide, and I think the rule I offered has been demonstrated over and over again. And, really, it's the media who decides if it's a scandal, more or less, either to ignore or ram down our throats. I didn't say it was fair or wasn't hypocritical.

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

supercon, That was my

supercon,

That was my question as well....I thought liberals were all in favor of men and women who were homosexuals or at least bi-sexual. You would think Craig would be their hero.

except that...

Liberals aren't liberal.

Who was the Dem that took a 15 year old boy with him on a trip to be his little toy and then turned his back on Congress when they censured him?

I wonder what Matthews said about that....

He is.

Matthews doesn't really think that homosexuality is deviant behavior.He just thinks Republicans are deviant.The big media draw to this is only because it is an opportunity to embarrass the Republican party and a chance to drive out a Republican Senator.It's another macacca moment.I'm not saying that getting caught in the bathroom cruising for sex is no big deal.I 'm saying that if it was a Democrat Matthews would be the first one to call any Republican who denounced him a homophobe. 

 

Victory in Iraq.

Newt for President.

Up Date: Naomi Wolf

"Shut up Naomi! I'm on a roll here! I'm going to destroy the Republican party tonight and don't you dare stop me by changing the subject!"

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

What a butthead.

 That guy is an absolute jerk.I love the way he tried to ambush Ann Coulter a few weeks ago with John Edwards wife and she insulted him right on camera and told him don't be calling her anymore to come on his crummy show.There are so many examples of him being an ass to female guests but the best one I remember was when during the 2004 DNC convention he absolutely shouted down Michelle Malkin on T.V. and right after that Zell Miller laid into him and told him what a jerk he was.

It was funny.

 

Victory in Iraq.

Newt for President.

-

Ooo, put in his place by a Democrat??  Love it.

"I am sorry. I did not see

"I am sorry. I did not see the word PERSONALLY in the question. I guess Mark missed the word PERSONALLY also."

It's a foolish request anyway that proves nothing. I don't know anyone
PERSONALLY who has committed murder. Does that mean it doesn't occur
daily in this country in numbers larger than they should be? Of course
not.

Arguing that many gays don't cruise bathrooms/bathhouses is
akin to that idiot on Neil Cavuto's show today who was arguing that dog
fighting wasn't primarily a "black" thing.

At least I have learned something today, though: never, EVER tap your foot in the bathroom stall. It's hard enough as it is for me to find a woman desperate enough to go out with me, so the last thing I need is a ticket for soliciting gay sex, lol.

My Concern

My concern is the MSM and freaks on the left who will do their best to paint this guy as some unsympathetic bigot/gay basher Senator from Idaho who is himself a closet homosexual (based on what I have heard thus far regarding this story).

Now I hear he is stating that he is not gay.  Heck, I have yet to read the entire story about him.  I guess I will do that first and then go from there.

Anybody have any clarification (i.e. article/story relating to this whole event)?

Update: Matthews tells Naomi to move away from camera..

What really occurred: 

UPDATE -- Matthews snaps at Naomi Wolf: "don't come on this show and change the subject."

What might have occurred:

Update -- Mathews says to Naomi, "Hey - Whoa there. You're getting a little bit in my face. Could you move back - yea that's right - move your face back a bit from the camera. What do ya mean, what do I mean. I mean that these cameras are delicate high tech stuff, and well, you know, you're not really all that hot like that business gal from CNBC, and you're kinda getting in my face, so what I mean you fat slob is move back... hey - just cut her off, would you.  

Could not resist. (;~>

Chris, your shoe's untied

Chris, your shoe's untied ...

Naomi, your fly's down ...

Naomi Wolfe = fingers drawn

Naomi Wolfe = fingers drawn sloooowly across a chalkboard

Imagine, if you dare, a

Imagine, if you dare, a panal with Naomi, Katrina Vandenfluffle, Ari HuffyPuffy ... AND Matthews.

Wouldn't that be like the Seventh Horseman in The Apocalypse or somethin'?

Replace Matthews with Elanor

Replace Matthews with Elanor Clift and your nightmare scenario is complete.

Thanks

Now I wont be able to sleep tonight.

according to liberals, a politicians sex life is personal

that was when clinton was mismanaging the country as opposed to any opportunity that they can use the "do as we say, not as we do" card against a conservative.

i must first caveat my opionions on homosexuality since it plays into this situation, i could care less what consenting adults do, i view sexuality as a persons right to persue happiness, i don't care what a non scientifically proven religion based on faith says, a true conservative doesn't want the government intruding on the personal lives of others so long as it's not intruding on them. i don't care what gay people do, it doesn't matter to me. i've even had gay neighbors at one time, they kept the property values up as opposed to the other neighbors we had.

that being said, the hipocracy of liberals to use this as a political pick, just like they did with that other guy from florida, is purely hipocritical to their statements on politics and sexuality during the clinton corruption years. it's just the pure hipocracy of how these situations are being spotlighted by the media, and yet the clintons were entirely defended by the media. oh and lets not forget that new jersey governor, all the media could do is talk about how good he was. mcgreevy i think, i'm sure he made sure all the reststops were clean.

now apparently he did break the law, something about soliciting sex in a public bathroom is an act that tends to lend itself to being illegal, and he should be prosecuted, and if found innocent then ok. but it's no different than obstructing justice and using your presidential authority to manipulate the legal system to prevent prosecution is also. but the double standard media will do everything to protect a liberal and under similar circumstances will crucify a conservative politician.

remember there is a standard template used by the media, whatever a liberal does, it's not a big deal, anything a conservative does, it's always presented in the darkest light possible.

now i'm sure i'm going to piss some people off since i don't care about homosexuals and i don't jump on the religious wagon of condemning them, but quite franklyi got a thousand more important things to worry about than that and being a conservative i support and defend a persons right to religious freedom because it falls under right to persue happiness, just like a persons sexuality. a persons rights ends at their fist to another persons nose. that policy is a two way street.

i'm an equal opportunity defender and offender.

lunaticcringeradio

lunaticcringeradio

Here is your main problem:

" now apparently he did break the law, something about soliciting sex in a public bathroom is an act that tends to lend itself to being illegal .."

 You have no idea what he is accused of doing, but he apparently did it. Rest assured the "accusers" own you, own your empty mind on the matter, that you have obligingly filled with your own fantasies of what the evil might have been.

 Maybe if there ever is a reason for you, read the police report from the busting officer. Then prepare to laugh, and keep imagining as much as you can, what is it that happened, that the police report doesn't even outline.

 I guess in leiu of that you can just flap around that he is apparently guilty of something since you heard something about some accusation about cruising for sex in some bathroom, and that's good enough for you.

 It's just amazing. It's no wonder the lib press rules the nation, even the watchdog posters have jello for brains when it comes to finding out the facts. The jello has melted, and you're all guzzling down the koolaid just like the libs want you to.

 Congratulations for being such a piece of putty.

sexual deviant?

Maybe if he would have been caught receiving a BJ from a fat intern in his office, it would have been OK.

 

Democrats are so hypocritical.

ksimm81

One had hoped that at least he had asked the little punk cop for it, but no words were spoken.

 The latest info for those in public airports is this:

1. Don't say the word "bomb".

2. Don't tap your dress shoe on bathroom tiles.

3. Don't have a roller luggage, because when you "park it", you're sure to be signalling your guilt to the tremendously intelligent mindful watchdog eye of the gay cruiser busting authorities.

4. Other variously unknown signals indicate your gay guilt to the authorities, so keep your eyes forward and your hands in your pockets, except when waiting for a stall, in that case, close your eyes for safety and innocence, and listen for a flush or ajaring door ONLY.

5. If some jackbooted retard needs a bust and picks you, just go along with them like a good little guilty person. ( of course you can argue first, say no, disagree with the lies and ridiculousness of it all, even pay it off to get out of jackbootville, but by the time the public hears an msm overblown bloviation on the matter, you're already a lying soliciting anal cavity. )

6. submit, just like Islam wants you to, your fellow conservatives will make certain they declare you did it, even when they don't know what "it" is.

Good comment on

Good comment on Althouse.

Let's see - Ted Kennedy committed intoxication homicide against his
female employee but is considered a model supported of womens rights.
Gerry Studds actually committed statutory rape yet was considered a
model of support for gay people. William Jefferson had 90 grand of
bribe money in his freezer and yet is considered a model of support for
his impoverished constituents. Oh, wait - President Clinton was
credibly accused of sexual assault, but he's considered a champion of
womens rights as well.

Larry Craig is the hypocrite, though. Go figure.

They
used to tell a joke about Gerry Studds - the reason he didn't used
bookmarks was that he bent over the pages. But Larry Craig is the nasty
pervert who should lose his job. Blaahhhh!

Dr. Laura

I don't know if anyone's brought it up yet, but remember when the homosexual community come out in force to to get Dr. Laura's show kicked off T.V. for suggesting that homosexual behavior was a "deviation from the norm".  The twisted her words and said she called them all deviants.  Now that our Chrissy actually calls them deviants, what are the chances they will be forcing his advertisers to pull out?