Pro-Choice Position 'More Moderate' Than Pro-life? NYT Says So

Photo of Mark Finkelstein.

Views on abortion are basically binary: you're essentially either pro-life or pro-choice. And Americans are almost evenly divided. According to the Gallup Poll:

[W]hen the entire issue is distilled to the labels most commonly used on each side of the debate -- pro-choice vs. pro-life -- the public is split nearly down the middle.

Under these circumstances, it would seem logically impossible for one of the positions to be inherently "more moderate" than the other. But consider this sentence from a New York Times article of today, Opponents Attack Giuliani’s New York Record:

Mr. Giuliani’s candidacy has always been considered somewhat unorthodox, given his more moderate views on social issues like abortion, which put him at odds with many in the Republican base.

Are Rudy's positions on abortion and other social issues more liberal than those of the Republican base? No doubt. But more "moderate"? If a pro-life Democrat were running for president, it would make as much sense for the Times to say "Mr. X’s candidacy has always been considered somewhat unorthodox, given his more moderate views on social issues like abortion, putting him at odds with many in the Democratic base." But hey, the Times isn't in the sense-making business. It simply wants to portray its positions as the default, "moderate" ones.


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Simple questions on abortion?

What sane person considers partial-birth abortion a choice?

In this day of modern medicine, specifically, when would an abortion be MEDICALLY NECESSARY to save the mother's life?
[ I mean necessary, not convenient, not easier.]

 

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

pro-choice:) funny Hey

pro-choice:) funny

Hey baby, would you like to be aborted? it's YOUR CHOICE:)

you libs are "pro-choice" all right...

My big question on abortion

My big question on abortion has always been how people could be confused on roe v wade.  In short the ruling found that it was a womans right to have an abortion until the child was viable outside the womb.  Well modern medicine will tell us that 22 weeks is common, and 21 weeks has been performed.  So where a partial birth or any late term abortion is only performed after the 25th week... they are already illegal, the child is viable, and therefore it is clearly murder under the confines of roe v wade.

What gets me is why people push for extra laws outlawing partial birth and what not... they are already illegal.  Much like immigration, enforce the current laws we have, there is no need for additional laws. 

Of course there is a clear case for challange that the ruling on abortion was remarkably outside the confines of the 14th ammendment, where in the right to due process ( in relation to crimes and hearings ) they see a right for abortion, however with over 22000 anti gun laws on the books nation wide, they somehow cant seem to read "the right to bear arms must not be infringed" as meaning that I have the right to own a gun.  Pardon the language but all I can say is... stupid F!!!ing liberals.....

This is what bothers me

This is what bothers me more than any other thing the MSM does. Extremist is pretty much defined as someone who believes abortion should be illegal but if someone believes that it's okay for an 11 year old girl to have an abortion without informing her parents, or if they believe a woman should be able to have one at 8.5 months into the pregnancy, or if they say it's okay for a live baby born in a botched abortion to still be killed, those are moderate positions. The media and abortion advocates have really hoodwinked the people. It's absurd

MSM and abortion

I wish the MSM would call abortion by its truthful name...feticide.

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

LK,You don't wish for

LK,

You don't wish for much, do you? 

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

I don't think outlawing

I don't think outlawing feticide as a method of birth control is in any way "extreme", but that's what the lefties want to sell us through their propaganda arm, the MSM. The message is clear: those who want to preserve life are "extreme", and those who want to take life at their convenience are "moderate".

Isn't liberalism, itself,

Isn't liberalism, itself, moderation, by MSM definition?

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

I believe it's "womens'

I believe it's "womens' choice". Simple as that. The situation is nearly always caused by men, but blamed on women.

I'm amazed at how the "sanctity of life" before birth seems to be mostly promoted by pro-war people who think that once you are 18, you should become cannon fodder in a pointless war. I assume you are shareholders in arms dealerships.

Please bring the abortion debate into this century, and leave it up to women.

Are you a woman, Eyecare?

If not...I'll explain things to you from a woman's POV.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

acctualy please do, I would

acctualy please do, I would be very interested in a womans point of view to see if it coincides with mine at all.

Mindwerkz,

First, I must state categorically that I hate the terms "pro-choice" and "pro-life".  They're both full of emotion and misdirection.

I am anti-abortion, but pro-choice.  How does that work, you ask?

For any woman, the choice is made prior to hopping between the sheets.  There is my choice, as a woman.

And for anyone here, who then tosses out the "rape" argument.  I've said it before, and I'll say it again.  In that instance, I believe the "morning after" pill is appropriate, if the victim of a rape so chooses.  It's not perfect, but it's a compromise I think is reasonable for a victim of sexual assault (I believe that life begins at conception...it's the possibility that matters).   But as a form of regular birth control, no way.

Oh yeah, I own my body, no doubt about it.  Which means I am free to choose to be responsible if I choose to have sex for fun.

Other than that....the whole "choice" argument is crap.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Hi Blonde

mind if i add a thought or two?

women have the right to own their own bodies, the DNA proves in every cell that the unborn are a separate body.

as far as the rape argument, well if we wish to set the 'exception of law' rather than the 'rule of law' it (the rape argument) would be valid for policy

“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.”   -Chief Justice John Roberts

Hey Bruce

Add away.

I'm not sure exactly what point you're trying to make here, though.

My point of "allowing" the morning-after pill in the case of rape is a bit of a compromise on my part.  As I stated earlier, I believe life begins at conception.  It's a bit of an intellectual reach for me to advocate for the use of the morning-after pill in the case of rape. 

But I think it's the next best thing to our current state of affairs (oh, that's a really bad choice of words).

Because intellectually, as a woman (and oh, how I'd hate to be faced with the actual horror of rape), I must admit that I'd not force another human being to be victimized twice without an alternative.  Personally, I'd never, ever have an abortion.

Now....what did our new Troll Eyecare say about which sex it was?  I'm waiting.    

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

It never did

say what gender it is.  I don't know that i was making a point but rather was commenting with my thoughts on your points.

“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.”   -Chief Justice John Roberts

It's ok, you don't have to.

It's ok, you don't have to. I know what your POV is, and it doesn't represent real women caught in this situation. Thanks anyway.

oh hell

Sheesh...now we get to watch Blonde shread another troll...especially one that insulted her.

Stand clear and watch for flying troll scraps!!!

Okay, Eyecare. Please,

Okay, Eyecare.

Please, for our edification....please, please share your "representation" of what "real women" think.

Last I checked, I was a real woman.

BTW, you didn't answer me....are you male of female?   Your answer is important here...if you duck, we'll all ROTFL and laugh our collective asses off.

Your turn.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

war only kills by accident:)

eyecare isn't asking questions here is he/she?

my pro-war stance has only killed a few hundred thousand people this year...

your pro-abortion stance killed 120,000 people today...

do you find that funny too eye care:)? hahahaha

Sex is the Choice

"Womens' Choice" takes the mans choice away. Sex=Woman and Man's Choice.

Abortion is about avoiding consequences. A good consequence I might add.

choice choice choice c

choice

choice

choice

choice

not only does the left get away with murder on this subject, they get away with the abuse and rape of the english language - these people are JUST PLAIN NASTY

Like Grandma used to say

The situation is nearly always caused by men, but blamed on women.

What! It is easier for a woman to run with her dress up, then a man with his pants down

not in my humiliating

not in my humiliating experience:(

Ohh,my

Ohh, my

caused by men?

Well arnt we the little victim.  Last time I consulted a biology textbook it took two people to create a life, two people who have rights to that child.  The idea that one of the three people involved should have more rights or be more correct than the other two is rather pretentious.  The "womens choice" should have been to be responsible in the first place and not create a situation where they are infringing on the fathers parental rights, or the childs right to life.

As for your anti war rant... even most liberals are realizing the point of this "pointless war".  Good luck finding someone to buy those talking points.

What in the heck does your

Eyecare (?!),

What in the heck does your comment have to do with mine? 

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

Eyecare -Please bring the

Eyecare -Please bring the abortion debate into this century, and leave it up to women.

   OK, but if a woman has a choice whether she wants to have a baby then there's no reason a man should be forced by the state to be a father against his will.  A man should have a simple legal process to renounce his rights and obligations.

That's got nothing to do

That's got nothing to do with her rights. It's more to do with the laws that apply where you live.

eyesore...what about the rights of the unborn

Do you care about the rights of the unborn?

Are you part of the "me" generation?

  A woman doesn't have a

  A woman doesn't have a 'right' to have an abortion.  It's a priveledge currently allowed under certain circumstances. 

Pro war?

Yes I am also a share holder with Michael Moore and George Soros in Haliburtion.Oh wait I not.Guess I not a left winger then.Oh just a note you do know the saying about "assume".There are people who support are country and dont own shares in arms dealerships.I wont assume you support the car bombing of innocent women and children because you dont believe we should be there.

I am pro choice but not for your reasons.I dont believe in partial birth abortions.In this day in age both the man and the woman should have enough sense to buy birth control items.Is it beyond their comprehension?

We need to take care of the kids that are in this country.To often "Vermont" standards are applied.Too many are going thru hell now.Never see the MSM jump on that.

People wouldn't need abortions

If they didn't live with their boyfriends like Jeri Thompson did.

 

someone needs a lesson in biology

Sharing a bed does not cause pregnancy...abortion is the not the answer if pregnancy does occur.

 

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

Someone is Abstinence Afraid

The only 100% guarantee is Abstinence and the Thompsons will not be able to teach what they didn't practice before they were married.

Maybe Rice can

The message is still true

The truth is the truth no matter who tells it. Abstinence works.

Wow, you are back in the

Wow, you are back in the Fifties! Yes, you clever types, it takes two to make one, but only one has to stick around. It's up to the woman. If you are a woman reading this, and demanding to know if I am a woman, then why?

Eyecare

Well, you've not yet answered the question.

Are you a woman?

I've stated my POV as a woman.  So.....put up or shut up, Eyecare. 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

does it really matter what

does it really matter what your gender is?

i can become a woman in a couple of hours downtown...

eyecare - you are so damn dumb - thanks for showing up:)!

its fun! 

only the choice to kill, for women?

my woman ants more than ten round magazines for rifles, and would really like an AR series that wasn't crippled by Kalifornia's practically Unconstitutional assault weapon ban. Why not "women's choice" for this?

But none of you leftist w@nkers want to bring gun control debates into the modern century, nor do you want to allow women to choose something that can *save* a life.

Take the "choice" card somewhere else, and shove it waay up there with that damned "race" card too.

Yee Haw!! Yer jes lay offa

Yee Haw!! Yer jes lay offa that likker some, an tellsus whatta yer thinks inna th' morn eh?

"Dinga dind ding ding...danga dang dang dang".

Feel Proud Newsbusters!!!!

(Is this one for real?)

Eyecare is reverting to type

....foolish and immature

RJ, Not only foolish and

RJ,

Not only foolish and immature, but an ugly little troll....soon to be gone.

It can't answer a legit question, and just posts this "Yee Haw" nonsense.

Can you say "Later"?

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Well, Blonde, I tried

The other night, I challenged Eyecare to grow up and make intelligent comments, but he spent a lot of time whining about not getting any respect...say, let's call him Rodney!    ;^> 

Quite, RJ. Rodney it is,

Quite, RJ.

Rodney it is, for our newest little trollster.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Ok my theory is proven correct once again.

 We have another liberal that is filled with and furiously foments pure smart aleck commentary.

 I'm saying it again, the lib and demo and left platform is " pure smarta**".

 Everything their leaders say can be boiled down to that, and all the little rod-knees here that do their dem worship work as such, fit the Bill exactly as well, the blue dressed opposition.

eyecare are you a Bigot?

A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own.

Or do you prefer just to use

Stereotypes are ideas held about members of particular groups, based primarily on membership in that group. They may be positive or negative prejudicial, and may be used to justify certain discriminatory behaviors

I believe it is Huff Haw

eyecare Huffington Post is calling. They just love your bigotry, stereotypes, hatred and anti American bias.

If you keep busy on blogging there you might even win their blogger contest and get to be with foul mouthed Bill Maher and racist John Ridley. That is honestly where you belong as they will giggle over your hate speech like Al Franken is laughed at by Letterman.

Remember Huff Haw eyecare and blog there often where you will be adored.

 

*HIC IACET ARTORIVS REX QVONDAM REXQVE FVTVRVS

This must really bother you

This must really bother you lot; when I do reply; when I keep replying...

 Blonde, I am not a woman. I don't know why you are so worked up about it. I am speaking in favour of women! If a man rapes a woman..... If a man leaves a relationship as soon as his partner is pregnant...... If a girl gets pregnant at school........  It's the woman's choice.

I have to say what I say a lot on this site; this is 2007! This is normal. Maybe not right, but real! What is so wrong with saying it's the woman's choice?

And Lion King? If abstinence is the answer, I'd love to know where you live. Yes, technically, scientifically, abstinence would work. A good way to stop young women being pregnant is to be gay. How realistic are we trying to be, Lion King? (very camp name, by the way, cheeky!)

RJ, if you look back at the thread we were on the other night, where you addressed me as "grasshopper", you will find that I replied, at length, and with great respect.

Lame cherry, I'm sorry I don't do Latin. I have no idea about Huff. I don't know what you are talking about, and I'm sure the falt is mine. I never comment on domestic US politics or media. It's your business. I only comment when it affects the world.

eye spy with my little i

 I know what your POV is, and it doesn't represent real women caught in this situation.  eye you wrote this, and this is what Blonde (a woman) is responding to.  Now you may say Blonde is not in the situation.  I will remind you that you could not possibly ever be in the situation AND you are not a woman.  Also Blonde no doubt has knowledge of women's POV, that you will never have (have you ever noticed how women talk to each other?).  For you to discount her POV as not a real womans while you (a non-woman) know better?  Arrogant, just plain arrogant.

Secondly,

I never comment on domestic US politics eye-yeye-yai; what praytell do you think the abortion debate IS?  It is a domestic US political issue!!! 

btw: where do you live since it is outside the U.S. 

“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.”   -Chief Justice John Roberts

Bruce

I suspect he's a Brit.

IIRC, Britain is debating whether to reduce their legal abortions from 24 weeks to about a month less. 

Doncha just love it, a man & a Brit no less presumes to tell me that my POV has no bearing on the issue?

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Blonde

here's one for ya in it's honor. (note the eye only said it's not a woman never claimed to be a man so we should not assume)

“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.”   -Chief Justice John Roberts

I say again; you are women,

I say again; you are women, and it is your choice always.

I'm not ashamed of that. I think, in fact you are asking about my home country, because you share your views with say Islamic extremist countries? Africa? Northern Ireland?

Where I live, women have rights!

no I

am not a woman

Supreme Court,  National Security,  Borders,  Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.  

botg leading new troll 1 to nil

botg: 1

new troll: 0

Moderation of Slavery too

Of course liberal Democrats equate aborticide as moderate. These are the same people who thought slavery saved all those poor blacks from dealing with freedom. They loved it so much they enslaved them all over again on welfare and destroyed black culture.

These were the same moderates who left millions of Vietnamese to the slaughter were responsible for the domino effect of Cambodia's killing fields.........and remember the New York Times just loved moderate Joe Stalin who slaughtered 40 million Ukraine and Russians.

So of course 6 million and counting scalded, ripped apart and now poisoned babies are moderate according to the times........they were behind the moderate torture of Terri Schiavo in dehydrating her to death.

Hey Terri looked "more beautiful than ever" and remember vegetable brain Senator Tim Johnson of South Dakota they described as "never looking better" after his brain exploded and doctors cut open his skull.

That is all "moderate" and you can kind of understand why Kos thinks he is moderate when people of this ilk cheer when Vice President Cheney was almost assassinated.

Moderate........yup genocide, assassination, aborticide, torture and exploding brains that is all moderate.

They make horror movies out of it, but liberals make it policy.

 

*HIC IACET ARTORIVS REX QVONDAM REXQVE FVTVRVS