During the panel discussion on the September 14 edition of ABC's "This Week," an interesting exchange occurred between conservative columnist George Will and ABC senior national correspondent Claire Shipman. On the topic of Senator John McCain's recent ad about a sex education bill Senator Barack Obama voted for while in the Illinois state legislature, Shipman could not seem to understand Will's point of view.
Host George Stephanopoulos described the ad as "looking at a vote that Barack Obama had in a committee when he was a state senator that advocated comprehensive sex education from grades K through 12.... The debate is whether -- what comprehensive sex education means and whether it means that kindergartners should be taught how to ward off a sexual predator or something more extensive than that."
In response, Will argued:
It is very common across the centuries for parents, not schools, parents to tell their children to be aware of strangers. What's new here and reflects a conservative-liberal difference is the idea, a, it has to be tarted up as sex education to be wary of strangers, and b, parents can't but the schools must in the kindergarten. Now that's a cultural divide and let's vote.
Shipman, concurrent with the media theme that McCain's ads feature outrageous lies and distortions about Obama, couldn't seem to grasp Will's point, fervently saying to him, "But you have to agree the way that ad was phrased is completely misleading…" After Will adamantly stated that he did not agree, Shipman shook her head in astonishment.
Democratic strategist Paul Begala also took part in the panel discussion and argued that the bill referenced in the ad sought to teach kindergarteners to protect themselves against predators. However, the bill also says "each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades K through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV." Clearly, this includes more than simply teaching a child how to protect him or herself from sexual predators.
A transcript of the exchange follows:
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, host: Basically the McCain campaign has put out an ad looking at a vote that Barack Obama had in a committee when he was a state senator that advocated comprehensive sex education from grades K through 12. The debate is whether -- that's true. It didn't pass, that was it. The debate is whether -- what comprehensive sex education means and whether it means that kindergartners should be taught how to ward off a sexual predator or something more extensive than that. I think that's a fair summary of what the ad said. Now go.
PAUL BEGALA, Democratic strategist: This is a factual response which ought to matter at some level in politics which is this was simply to defend children from sexual predators at that age. What I would do is go right at McCain's strength which is a word Jay Carney used in an interview with him, and I think it set him off, and that is honor. This is a dishonorable thing to do. When McCain was a naval officer he embodied the word honor. Now as a politician he embodies the word politician. It is as dishonorable an attack as I can imagine. There's plenty of good, perfectly wonderful issues to attack Barack Obama on, but I think this shows that McCain has become what he has always pretended not to be which is a typical politician.
CLAIRE SHIPMAN, ABC senior national correspondent: You can see that he bristles even on "The View." You know, I don't know if he expected this wasn't going to come up in a sort of warm, fuzzy atmosphere but when he got grilled on "The View," you know, told things he was saying were untrue, he was quite uncomfortable. As he said, that's not accurate.
BEGALA: He didn't defend them. Just said Barack Obama-
JAY CARNEY, Time magazine: Giving the "who cares" look.
GEORGE WILL, conservative columnist: I'm saying refresh me as to what he said that was untrue.
CARNEY: On "The View," he said that Sarah Palin had never asked for-
WILL: No, this ad.
BEGALA: That Barack Obama wants to teach children about sex before they can read. That is not true. The PTA was behind this legislation or supporting it, okay, and I have a wife who is vice president of our local PTA, this kind of matters to me. It is common sense and very common across our country to teach young children how to protect themselves. So why not an ad that says John McCain wants to leave our children vulnerable to sexual predators?
WILL: It is very common across the centuries for parents, not schools, parents to tell their children to be aware of strangers. What's new here and reflects a conservative-liberal difference is the idea, a, it has to be tarted up as sex education to be wary of strangers, and b, parents can't but the schools must in the kindergarten. Now that's a cultural divide and let's vote.
SHIPMAN: But you have to agree the way that ad was phrased is completely misleading in terms of-
WILL: I do not agree with that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well when he calls it an accomplishment. This was a bill that he voted on in the senate that he didn't sponsor that didn't get out of the committee.
WILL: Shouldn't have used the word accomplishment.
BEGALA: Nor did the bill say teach children about sex before they can read. It said teach children how to protect themselves against predators. My kids are lucky, they have essentially two stay at home parents, 'cause I don't have a real job, but not every kid is that lucky. Maybe a kid is like Barack Obama with a working mom and a dad who abandoned them who's trying to make his way in the world. You know, life is more complicated.



















Editor at Large
Comments Policy
What they don't say is that
September 15, 2008 - 15:17 ET by motherbeltWhat they don't say is that kindergarten sex-ed includes such things as introducing kids to the fact that certain of their classmates might have two Moms or two Dads, (with books like "Heather Has Two Mommies" and "Daddy's Roommate") instead of one of each, and that's perfectly OK.
It's early indoctrination into accepting homosexual relationships and homosexual "marriage."
they accuse mc of a
September 15, 2008 - 15:24 ET by TruthMongerthey accuse mc of a "misleading ad" on this
after all the MSM knows misleading like it was their day job
Journalism is the opium of the liberals
the msm opiate
September 15, 2008 - 17:05 ET by tejanodiabloit's their night job, too .. 24-7-365 .. bds .. 9-11 was either Bush's fault or his conspiratzia .. Bush is the mastermind behind aids, wants to wipe out africa .. also bird flu to wipe out south east asia .. modern day hitler for racial purity .. Palin has cannons lined up in the aluetians ready to fire on the ruskies ..
never look a gift skunk in the tail ..
Fairytale World
September 15, 2008 - 15:29 ET by Lame CherryGeorge Will is absolutely correct, but did not explain that children on their mother's knee or their dad reading a bed time story are taught of many subjects over the centuries by "fairytales".
Liberals can not figure out that the big bad wolf tale is about children being warned not to venture out into the world away from their parents, because something will kill you.
The three little pigs notes of the danger beyond your front door and to always keep it locked.
Aesophs Fables are another venue of virtue telling children exactly moral issues in how to conduct themselves.
My favorite as a child were the Bible stories in adventures which always had happy endings, but were teaching that a child can overcome with a moral code and God always works things out.
Schools are only to REINFORCE what is coming from the home and the chosen guidelines of worshipping God in Church.
There is nothing wrong with making children suffer in Church, be bored and miserable as it build's character and God will see it instills a moral code.
One can not achieve that in public schools when you have these horrid NEA stooges teaching somebody has same sex parents, how to put on a condom and what parts go where.
Children are little programmed creatures and in liberal sex education, it is not education, but teaching them what to do and as curious children they do it.
The "good" children I grew up with had parents watching them they feared, were dragged to Church every Sunday and they policed themselves.
There were not 5 teachers where I went that I respected in 13 years of public schooling. Most were suffering from a psychopathy of needing to punish children by lording over them, lusting for money and had absolutely no life outside the classroom.
My 5 teachers were wonderful, but the dozens of others were garbage. In fact, one who abused me used to run around and still does in this little Nazi crew cut. I caught him tresspassing on a neighbor's land a few years ago and simply turned my vehicle in his direction. This "teacher coach" ran from me and when I followed him to see just what he would do, he floored his truck and was doing 80 mph as I just watched in amazement.
I do not want refuse like that teaching my children anything beyond reading, writing and arithmetic.
Schooling begins at home and it delights me I see numbers of people now home schooling their children.
I urge though parents, grandparents and relatives when you have the kids with you shake up their world and read them a story at night. I loved Bible stories, but there are a vast array of good books to include as they get older like the Laura Ingalls Wilder books (do not allow your children to watch that on television as it looses a great deal of what that woman was teaching.) to Col. Richard Irving Dodge..........or even make up your own stories like I do as kids love them.
Holding your children and reading to them the information you want to instill in them is the best defense from the liberal garbage of this world.
God bless
*HIC IACET ARTORIVS REX QVONDAM REXQVE FVTVRVS
Are liberal arguments so weak
September 15, 2008 - 15:31 ET by krendlerAre liberal arguments so weak/incoherent and their debating/communications skills so deficient that it consistently HAS to be 3 against 1 or 4 against one one these shows?
...from Bill Maher to The View to just about any CNN analyst round table (and it goes without saying, absolutely anything on MS-DNC)...
Very telling that the producers of these shows think this kind of stacked deck is necessary in order to have a fair fight.
Yes.
September 15, 2008 - 15:54 ET by motherbeltOn both counts.
Thank God for Will
September 15, 2008 - 15:31 ET by KC MulvilleAt times he is completely outnumbered, yet he outclasses the other guests. I saw him on Charlie Rose's show in the summer, and he said something wonderfully concise: he said that the columnist's job is to "reason in public." I almost always find his column reasonable, and if we conservatives live within an echo chamber, it is an erudite chamber indeed.
Will pulled the rug out from under Shipman. I'll bet that before she heard Will say it, it never would have dawned on her that this is a job better left to parents. All she heard was that children would be told that strangers shouldn't be trusted, and since that's a fine principle, who could be against it? The ramifications of having the state supplant the role of parents never occurred to her ... such ramifications never occur to liberals. The thought occurs constantly to conservatives.
Begala was trying to be ingratiating, but he came off as boorish, as usual. Shipman was clueless, and Carney wanted to sound authoritarian but he doesn't have the weight. Stephanopolous actually was pretty even handed throughout that roundtable, even if he completely botched the Greenspan interview. Will, on the other hand, challenged the assumptions of everyone there. He offered reason.
A nice job. I wish I could find one like that.
Just the idea of Claire "debating" George Will is just too funny
September 15, 2008 - 15:35 ET by political mavenIt's like a 50 year old overweight guy playing one on one with Michael Jordan in his prime.
There is a minimun of 50 IQ points separating them...and that's when Will is asleep!
I can't stop laughing at this mismatch.
What's funnier is that she's too dumb to even realize she's not in the game
pol mav
September 15, 2008 - 15:46 ET by BlondeSo true...it's political (comedy) theatre:
SHIPMAN: But you have to agree the way that ad was phrased is completely misleading in terms of-
WILL: I do not agree with that.
I wonder if anyone at SNL could do that? A bubble headed reporterette asking the usual variations "many people" type questions, getting repeatedly slapped down by the mean conservative. Maybe even put the reporterette in a micro-mini and hip boots or somesuch. In other words, Claire Shipman.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Begala and Monty Python
September 15, 2008 - 15:35 ET by exLiblike the Monty Python sketch were all the old guys try to out-do each other with how bad things were when they were kids, Begala being a clown as usual.
Begala: We had it so tough when we were kids, we didn't get taught about sex, comdoms, abortions and all those necessary subjects when we were kids. Kids today are LUCKY, they either get to learn all that from liberal parents like me, or they get to learn it at school, even kindergarteners.
(sarc off)
yep, things wuz tuff
September 15, 2008 - 17:18 ET by tejanodiablo"Maybe a kid is like Barack Obama with a working mom and a dad who abandoned them who's trying to make his way in the world. You know, life is more complicated." .. yes, especially when he's smoking dope, doing drugs, going to pakistan and afganistan to 'check things out' and visit with his roomie's terrorist friends and radical sheiks .. barack ogarbage ..
never look a gift skunk in the tail ..
Oh I am so glad you have
September 15, 2008 - 15:37 ET by bigtimerOh I am so glad you have this here Lyndsi...I caught this yesterday....her astonishment was absolutely hilarious...she really doesn't realize what a fool she makes of herself every single time she is on the air anymore...
Of course all she has between those two ears is empty space...and her partner in life is no better.
I was tickled with Will yesterday for once....
...this was also something you had to see the expressions ect...it was delicious.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
Why oh why won't a McCain
September 15, 2008 - 15:41 ET by RainsfordWhy oh why won't a McCain surrogate come on with the legislation in his hand, and READ it to the folks at home? Why is that so hard to do?
Personally, I think McCain should run a new ad apologizing for being so ambigious, and then literally reading off the parts about teaching kindergardeners about STDs.
Maybe Claire enjoys a good
September 15, 2008 - 15:41 ET by Clear thinkerMaybe Claire enjoys a good spanking ;-)
Gun Loving Fun
Making Fun of AGW http://giovanniworld.wordpress.com/
Shipman the serial killer
September 15, 2008 - 16:00 ET by Jack BauerInteresting factoid, and athough they are probably not related, but England's (and possibly the world's) most prolific serial killer was Dr. Harold SHIPMAN.
From 1975 thru 2000, the bad doctor Shipman is believed to have murdered over 500 people.
Yes, you got me. I just like getting SHIPMAN and serial killer in the same sentence.
You'll note that apart from the one. I can't recall anyone else famous called MANSON. Or Hitler.
So kudos to Claire for making ut big with the same name as a MONSTER.
What makes no sense to me is
September 15, 2008 - 15:44 ET by ckc1227What makes no sense to me is why it's necessary to pass a bill before teachers can teach kids to beware of strangers.
It's not so that they can
September 15, 2008 - 16:02 ET by motherbeltIt's not so that they can teach them....it will require them to teach them...according to an "approved" outline, supplied by the DoE of course.
I agree, but my point was
September 15, 2008 - 16:57 ET by ckc1227I agree, but my point was the DOE should be able to do this without a bill being passed if it were only about teaching kids to beware of strangers. Did they need to have a bill passed so the DOE could approve lessons on how to tell time?
That a bill is necessary for this should tell folks that there's more to it than just teaching kids to beware of strangers.
You know, you're right...I
September 15, 2008 - 17:42 ET by motherbeltYou know, you're right...I hadn't thought of that.
Heaven knows the EPA passes all kinds of regulation without benefit of Congress. That's how Bill Clinton got some of the Kyoto protocol into action, without the treaty being approved.
That is not what the bill
September 16, 2008 - 08:54 ET by amberThat is not what the bill was about about. Obama said it is the right thing to do to teach age appropriate, science based, sex education. When he was confronted by Alan Keys about his vote. The bill says nothing about sexual predators, only STDs and pregnancy. I don't know about the k-3 kids you know, but mine have no interest in sex and do not need to learn about how STDs are contracted from a government teacher.
Journalists Stating Their Liberal Opinions
September 15, 2008 - 15:47 ET by deerjerkydaveHow many news stories have you read about kindergartners coming home from school only for the parents to find out that they've been reading pro-gay material sanctioned by the school? It is clear that liberals in this nation want to instill their morality into children at as young of an age as possible. These types of laws that Obama voted for open the door to this type of instruction.
Claire Shipman can shake her head at that but it only shows that once she's heard the liberal response that no further debate or investigation is required in her mind.
Remind you of anything?
September 15, 2008 - 16:59 ET by okiehawk44"Claire Shipman can shake her head at that but it only shows that once she's heard the liberal response that no further debate or investigation is required in her mind."
Kind of reminds you of their response to those of us who still question the underlying data regarding "Global Warming."
Yes that thought crossed my
September 15, 2008 - 17:15 ET by deerjerkydaveYes that thought crossed my mind too. It is a pattern. It also happens frequently whenever a Democrat is caught in a scandal. The liberal media will hold off on reporting it until the Democrat in question is able to produce a response. Remember John Edwards for example? Edwards states that his affair started and ended on particular dates, that the baby wasn't his, and then the liberal media actually accepts Edward's response as the gospel truth and ignores investigating any of these claims when there is quite a bit of evidence that he is still lying.
Whenever I think of sex
September 15, 2008 - 15:52 ET by ElyasWhenever I think of sex education for kindergarters, it makes me think of a South Park episode.
Basically the premise of the show was because the kids were misinformed about sex because their parents hadn't talked to them.
The parents were outraged that the school hadn't done their job and taught sex education.
Anways, in one scene the teacher was reviewing "sexual positions" with the kindergarteners and writing them on a chalk board. It seemed so out of this world but I'm beginning to think it might become a reality some day.
Thomas Jefferson once said, 'We should never judge a president by his age, only by his works.' And ever since he told me that, I stopped worrying. - Ronald Reagan
As per the headline of the
September 15, 2008 - 16:05 ET by celatorAs per the headline of the item, Ms Shipman is often bafffled about many issues. Nothing new here.
The major media report only half the news. Why are they surprised they have only half the potential audience?
I suspect a lot of things...
September 15, 2008 - 16:08 ET by wnaegele...baffle Claire Shipman.
Re: I suspect a lot of things...
September 15, 2008 - 21:29 ET by Vivaldi5Of course anyone who truly believes that McCain expected to go into (in her words) a "warm, fuzzy atmosphere" when he ventured into the piranha tank that is "The View" is likely baffled by a good 50% of objective reality--and perhaps closer to 90% of it whenever she's reporting from one of those "red" states (where they cling to guns and religion).
You can't blame Claire,
September 15, 2008 - 16:39 ET by rscamp13I mean, afterall, the way Obama talks with such nuances, it has to be really difficult to try and repeat his talking points. She did the best she could with what she had.
Get the facts people!!!
September 15, 2008 - 17:07 ET by amberSo far no one here has it right!!!
Here is the bill he wanted. Nowhere does it talk about warning about predators. I can't believe noone said it already. Watch the videos of Obama on this issue. Truely amazing and more people need to be exposing his excuses for what they are..LIES
"Each class or course in comprehensive sex education offered in any of grades K through 12 shall include instruction on the prevention of sexually transmitted infections, including the prevention, transmission and spread of HIV. Nothing in this Section prohibits instruction in sanitation, hygiene or traditional courses in biology. (b) All public elementary, junior high, and senior high school classes that teach sex education and discuss sexual activity or behavior shall emphasize that abstinence is an effective method of preventing unintended sexually transmitted diseases, and HIV when transmitted sexually."
hmm, nothing about sexual predators.
Mass. Sex Ed?
September 15, 2008 - 18:13 ET by Sergeant ROCKI wonder if this has any connection to those 'fisting seminars' that they were conducting up there in Mass. a while back? Don't know what that had to do with AIDS prevention, but that's what they sold it as.
Jocelyn Elders will be touring with Obama soon promoting masturbation for kindergartners as well.
PALIN/McCain 2008
Thank you Amber
September 15, 2008 - 19:26 ET by NayThank you very much. The other day this was brought up in a meeting I was in at work. This bill was described as merely trying to prevent child abuse and not as sex education for kindergartners. I really needed this.
No problem. I wish more
September 16, 2008 - 09:00 ET by amberNo problem. I wish more people knew the facts of the bill. Too many conservatives, here too, have no clue what it said and they keep bringing up the sexual predator issue. It had nothing to do with that and the media and Obama are lying and many people are too lazy or too trusting of the media to do a little checking around for themselves. It is frustrating because teaching children about predators is serious and definatly needs to be done and should be reinforced by others. By lying about this they are giving the people the impression that the bill was about protecting our children from bad people when in actuality it is about exposing our children to inappropriate material and doing harm to our kids. As a mother of 3, I take that personally.
I'm sure Ms. Shipman
September 15, 2008 - 17:24 ET by Chris NormanI'm sure Ms. Shipman is frequently "baffled" by common sense.
McNotObama '08
BHO's view on Sex Ed.
September 15, 2008 - 17:26 ET by Steve08080I was listening to Hannity last week and he discussed BHO's position on sex education for K-12. He discussed the level 1 curriculum which is what's supposed to be taught to kindergartners. This curriculum goes way beyond teaching about sexual predators. Hannity began reading what would be taught under level 1 and he had to stop reading because he was disgusted and embarassed. I myself couldn't believe what was in the curriculum. I could not find the info on Hannity's website, but if anyone knows, please post it.
McCain/Palin 08!!!!!
Comprehensive
September 15, 2008 - 17:46 ET by sawing battaWith all Due Respect, Claire, and I mean all due respect...
IF your side wanted to limit the information to teaching about predators, the program would NOT be characterized as "comprehensive"...in fact, it would be the opposite of comprehensive, it would be singular, particular and narrowly defined.
The misleading info is yours, not mccain's. You're 100% off base.
"It's in the Geneva Convention...look it up!"
People! You have got to go
September 15, 2008 - 21:07 ET by kit9People! You have got to go to FactCheck.org and read their article on McCain's 'comprehensive sex ed to kindergartners' ad. They completely trash the ad in their headline and opening comments. Then, however, they go on to, in fact, provide information that completely SUPPORTS the veracity of the ad. At least the main point-that the bill did intend to teach comprehensive(including teaching 6 year olds about STD's)sex ed to very young kids. And, they throw out a couple of unfair criticisms like claiming that that the sex ed would be quote, 'age appropriate'. Uh, McCain never said it wasn't. Although they could have since most people would find teaching 6 year old's about STD's ridiculous. And, they go out of their way to say that parents could pull their kids from the class. Again, McCain never said otherwise. The only real point they knock down is that the bill wasn't, arguably, an Obama 'accomplishment'. So, what, now we need someone to fact check factcheck.org? Or at least their conclusions.
Remember that Fact Check is run by Annenberg
September 15, 2008 - 22:05 ET by ExZonieTry here for more information, or click the link at the site:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2082277/posts
Education?
September 15, 2008 - 18:02 ET by iveseenitallJust what did we do for all those years without sex- "education" in the schools. Oh right, we learned to read and write and think for ourselves. And guess what, many of us never had that special "talk" about the birds and the bees, even with our parents. We simply grew up normally. "Liberals" just can't leave anyone alone, especially our kids. IMHO, the real child abuse is the public education system.
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
always
September 16, 2008 - 01:38 ET by WesenYou know, from the first time I saw her, I thought Claire was a handsome woman. Unfortunately, she disappoints me when she opens her mouth.