Judge Andrew Napolitano: Another 9/11 Truther on Fox's Staff?
Fox News apparently employs a pair of 9/11 "Truthers": Geraldo Rivera, host of FNC's "Geraldo at Large", and, we've recently discovered, Judge Andrew Napolitano, who hosts "Freedom Watch" on the Fox Business Network.
Both Napolitano and Rivera have, er, raised questions about the "official" (read: commonsensical) explanation for the collapse of the WTC7 building on September 11, 2001. This conspiracy theory has been thoroughly debunked a number of times. Apparently Geraldo and the Judge are not convinced.
Geraldo left his Truther endorsement a bit more open-ended. "I'm certainly much more open-minded about it than I was," he said in his eight-minute segment on the issue a couple weeks ago.
Judge Napolitano was a bit more explicit in his discussion with Truther guru and ubiquitous conspiracy theorist Alex Jones:
It's hard for me to believe that [WTC7] came down by itself. I was gratified to see Geraldo Rivera investigating it. I'm gratified to see the people across the border interested.
I think 20 years from now, people will look at 9/11 the way they look at the assassination of JFK today. It couldn't possibly have been done the way the government told us.
The physics of the incident (see links above) and moral repugnance of the suggestion that the American government would deliberately slaughter thousands of its own citizens as a pretext for war are generally enough to dissuade thinking Americans from these sorts of theories.
Beyond those facts, the whole common sense element should belie any such claim about Building Seven. Allahpundit explains:
Why, oh why, oh why would the nefarious neocon junta that’s supposedly responsible for the 9/11 attacks have bothered with Building 7 in the first place? Never mind the huge number of government operatives they would have needed to plant explosives in the various buildings damaged or destroyed that day, or the fact that somehow not a single one of them has leaked anything about the plot more than nine years later despite that information being worth untold millions. Just ask yourself: If they were going to bring down the Towers as a pretext for war in the Middle East, why the hell would they have brought down Building 7 too? The structure’s collapse adds nothing to the already severe trauma of the day, and taking the time and effort to plant explosives would only increase the odds of detection. It would have been a wholly needless risk. And if, for whatever insane reason, the goal was to take down the Towers plus some other random building, why was Building Seven chosen instead of the far more iconic World Financial Center right next door?
Just so Fox is clear about the people whom they've given soapboxes, Geraldo and the Judge are apparently unconvinced by physics, common sense, and the simple human decency of their elected officials.
Let's hope they don't actually believe this tripe.
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Comments
My son is or at least was a
Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Tue, 11/30/2010 - 12:46pm.
My son is or at least was a truther. No amount of evidence would sway him. Perhaps he is just rebeling, but perhaps not. Hey we all change.
Jerry is just a liberal who wants to rage aginst something and the Judge is a nitpicker who doesn't trust the government.
Liberals & Trust in Government
Submitted by Blonde on Tue, 11/30/2010 - 2:34pm.
I'm not implying that your son is a liberal....but most of the truthers seem to be liberals. Yet liberals love and trust government to do everything for them. It seems to be a dichotomy.
Perhaps it's just that liberals loathed Bush rather than a matter of lack of trust?
Just a stray thought.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
I'm pretty sure he is just
Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Tue, 11/30/2010 - 3:02pm.
I'm pretty sure he is just young and stupid. He seems to hate government period. I'm hoping he will come around in a couple of years. I seem to remember being a bit liberal and voting for Carter. I believed the lies put ot by the government and read all the editorials. I liked Ivens and Broder a lot, yes I was young and stupid.
Speaking as a Liberal
Submitted by DavidNBK on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 6:44pm.
Speaking as a Liberal, I think you have us confused with someone else. I'm a liberal, live in a liberal state, with mostly.. well, you know.. other liberals. Nobody I know is a "Truther", we all figured that was the Libertarians, or at least just people with a screw loose. Nope, I never trusted Bush, but I would never believe in anyting as moronic as the conspericy therories around 9/11. Those buildings were taken down by by a sick bunch of extremist, end of story. And, I'm sure that this will come as quite a shock to you, nobody I know sat around and said, "oh, we deserved it, we brought it on ourselves"... Nope, not a single liberal I know. We put the blame squarely on Extremist Islam. NO, the americans who blamed America, and the Truthers are the same breed of nuts. Please don't lump them in with the Liberals, we're not that stupid.
P.S. If you're not sure, just try asking a liberal. Although to hear you speak, it would appear that you don't actually know any.
Couldn't have said it better
Submitted by Guttermouth's Return on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 6:54pm.
Couldn't have said it better myself. And welcome to Newsbusters. As a fellow liberal, beware. Dark forces are abound.
Dark forces = those---
Submitted by matthewdean on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 12:04am.
that call liberals out when said liberal's fancy takes flight; resulting in posts that are so replete with literary license that they are seemingly authored by chattering simians.
MD
It is necessary?
Submitted by DavidNBK on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 1:45am.
Rather than debate the merit of the argument, you would denigrate the individual. There are things which both conservatives and liberals can agree on, but only when they can openly debate the ideas, not the persons. However, it is clear that is not why you shop here.
DavidNBK---
Submitted by matthewdean on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 2:17am.
I don't shop here; I live here.
You are about the leventy-leventh liberal troll who has stated a blinding glimpse of the obvious, that being:
"Oh, jeepers creepers, rather than debate the merit of the argument, you would denigrate the individual."
"I came on this site to engage in spirited give-and-take, prepared to invoke the highest of highs in intercourse, both verbal and social."
Typical, seen before, LOADS of times, liberal line of PP & BB.
That's Pathetic Pap and Boring Bullsh*t.
What things can conservatives and liberals agree on? Name some.
Why not start with Obama. Name me something you worship about him that I am sure to agree with you on.
Pelosi? Reed? Hoyer? Frank? Schumer? Dodd? Hillary?
I know. Joe Biden. He makes us both laugh.
Who else, or what else ya got, Einstein?
The START Program? Amnesty? The Motor Voter Law? Entitlement Programs? Proposed Military Cutbacks? DADT? Guantanamo closure? Trying jihadists in a civil venue? Building a mosque at Ground Zero? Funding liberal sites like NPR?
How about Eric Holder, the DOJ, and the decision not to go after law-breakers if they are black and only white people are affected by their threats and taunts?
C'mon. Don't make me do all the work.
Step up. Man up. Speak up.
This is a conservative site. You are a liberal troll. What earth-shattering information are you going to present, troll, that has not been stated here, numerous times - ad nauseum - by your simple minded, social engineering, tax hiking, Palin hating, flame-out and get banned ilk?
Tiresome, two-faced, liberal troll turds.
All of you.
MD
Back to the sock puppet gamble huh?
Submitted by The Vet on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 1:32am.
Why is it there are now exactly 3 (Tee Aych Are Ee Ee) (three)(Tango Hotel Romeo Echo Echo) (2+1) people here that put 2 spaces in between sentences?
And why is it the only time the other 2 show up, Dead Zippers feels compelled to discuss with them how put upon he is here at NewsBusters?
Getting ready for the old flame out nwahs? Or you just want to add a new dimension to your little game?
Yeah, Duh, you know who else
Submitted by Guttermouth's Return on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 2:19pm.
Yeah, Duh, you know who else uses 2 spaces after a period? Blonde. So I must be her too, right?
Well now. That excuses you from all manner of trolling.
Submitted by The Vet on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 12:33am.
By all means, continue ot create sock puppet accounts and lie to your little hearts content nwahs.
Oh wait, Blonde don't do that. Never mind.
Yes Sir, JWF!
Submitted by Guttermouth's Return on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 1:43pm.
Yes Sir, JWF!
Could have picked a better name.
Submitted by The Vet on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 2:22am.
DK - Dead Kennedy
NB - NewsBusters.
DNBK - Dead NewsBusters Kennedy
DNBK
Submitted by MrShy on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 7:03pm.
Nope, I never trusted Bush, but I would never believe in anyting as moronic as the conspericy therories around 9/11.
"I'm a Liberal. I believe in a lot of moronic things, but I do draw the line at "the CIA/Bush/Cheney/Halliburton/CovertGovernment hired 19 secret ops for a suicide mission and/or planted bombs in various buildings to kill as many Americans as possible to give America an excuse to go to war." That one takes the cake."
The medal for your amazing intelligence is in the mail. You should feel very proud.
- Shynius (it's like Genius)Join Mr. Shy and The 1* Percent
Geraldo Rivera
Submitted by DavidNBK on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 7:11pm.
Oh, and I forgot to mention... Does anyone really take Geraldo Rivera seriously anymore? I mean, ever since that little fiasco with Al Capones hide out its been down hill for the guy. Is it any wonder that the only place that will hire him is Fox?
D
Yeah, Geraldo is---
Submitted by matthewdean on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 11:47pm.
a liberal.
Lucky for him FOX is magnanimous, as well as fair and balanced.
To catch on at CNN, he would have to be two-faced on alternating days.
To be employed at MSNBC, he would have to be a nasty hypocrite, with very limited intelligence, as well as being a liberal.
MD
Speaking as a liberal-leaning Democrat...
Submitted by Jer on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 7:40pm.
who lives in a very conservative state and who knows and is a friend of mostly conservatives, but also knows and is a friend of a fair number ofl liberals--yes, there are a handful of us left in Georgia--I will categorically endorse and echo the sentiments of DavidNBK: No liberal with whom I'm personally acquainted is a "truther". None, nada, zilch...meaning absolute ZERO. The blame for 9/11 is and has always been assigned precisely where it is deserved to be placed and to those clearly responsible: Radical militant Islamoterrorists in general and Al Qaeda and Bin Laden in particular.
That said, there is a "chickens coming home to roost" element of the fringe left and perhaps a larger segment who believe the Bush admininstration "knew" the attacks were imminent and allowed them to happen for ulterior reasons [somewhat akin to the "FDR knew about Pearl Harbor" theory], and in polling data compilation those opinions sometimes become conflated with and erroneously interpreted as "truther" positions.
However, mainstream liberals thoroughly reject 9/11 "trutherism" for the unadulterated kookery which it represents but which has nonetheless regrettably seduced even intelligent individuals such as Judge Napolitano.
Jer
seduction of conspiracy
Submitted by Agnostic on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 7:47pm.
people are easily seduced by theories that allow them to believe what they want to believe. That is one of the reasons the media is so frustrating.
NBK---
Submitted by matthewdean on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 11:42pm.
Chances are, there are NB conservatives that know a liberal.
Knowing one liberal generally defuses any desire on the part of a conservative to get acquainted with another one.
The house libs here, all three of the current ones, are on rare occasion, tolerable; one of them, anyway, and he, barely and on certain subjects only.
You show your, shall we say, less than in-depth knowledge of conservatives with your last sentence (circa post #4).
Observing what liberals have to say in their posts here is exactly why I personally feel no compelling urge to hear the same crap from a different set of lips; or fingers, as it were.
Liberals are an alternate life form.
NTTAWWT.
MD
It's a trust thing
Submitted by c5then on Tue, 11/30/2010 - 12:59pm.
Once you lose trust in the basic principles and morality of the Government, it is easy to ascribe all sorts of nefarious plots and conspiracies to them. Unfortunately the recent Wikileaks data dump has shown that many of the nefarious ascribed plots are true at least to a certain extent.
It is one thing to have a diplomatic staffer really being an undercover CIA agent. It's quite another to have the Ambassador himself be the spy.
I do not ascribe to the 9/11 truther ideas or conspiracies, but I understand how people can continue to adhere to them when confronted with all the other lies and spin coming from the federal government.
Madison and Jefferson and Franklin built a Republic - Roberts killed it!
Dang truthers
Submitted by jon_torlin on Tue, 11/30/2010 - 1:01pm.
It's crap like these so-called truthers that make themselves look foolish after initially looking smart. Look at the TSA gropings, Alex Jones was one of the people going after it and rightfully so, but then he slips off the tracks with these crazy conspiracy tangents. That's when people lose their credibility.
I'm disappointed that the judge is one of these truthers as well. Some of the stuff he's been saying(various subjects) over the past few months has made me a little suspicious of him, and this confirms it.
I haven't been able to stand seeing him on TV anyway whenever I'm watching Fox News, so I change channels on him, Sheppy and Jerry Rivers. This makes it that much easier to do so.
-Jon
have you any idea what it takes-
Submitted by JIMMY1660 on Tue, 11/30/2010 - 1:02pm.
to bring down a building with explosives? weeks/month plus plenty of study, just to set the explosives at critical locations, did anyone see someone pulling back plaster board, ceiling tiles, to expose those critical locations.
to be suspicious of the Government is one thing-to be stupid is another.
Very time consuming
Submitted by jon_torlin on Tue, 11/30/2010 - 1:09pm.
It's a job that is very time consuming, and there ain't no way in hell that could be done and people not notice. "Excuse me, what's that clay looking stuff you are connecting wires to on that building support column?" "Oh, just some new pest control we're trying out, nothing to see here."
While I'm not an engineer, I do have some understanding, having seen it on some of those channels how a building gets brought down. It's real fascinating the process that they go through with all the det cords, all the explosives and shaped charges and so on. If the judge would watch one of these shows, he can understand why his ideas are wrong.
-Jon
The meticuluous planning
Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Tue, 11/30/2010 - 1:10pm.
The meticuluous planning required is just more evidence of the extent of the influence of the government to silence us and the planning required over many years. It is an undertaking of tremendous scale and huztpah.
/s
Indeed. And they excuse no
Submitted by Free Stinker on Tue, 11/30/2010 - 1:15pm.
Indeed. And they excuse no one seeing explosives being planted with a casual "it was done nights and weekends", which shows the ignorance of truthers. I've worked nights (litterally overnight, 10p-8a) and weekends in Manhatten high rise offices, and I assure you those buildings are not empty on weekends(even at night) nor are the occupied by one or two lone guards./// Sarah Palin Fan since July 11, 2007 /// خال
I assure you those buildings
Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Tue, 11/30/2010 - 3:09pm.
I assure you those buildings are not empty on weekends(even at night) nor are the occupied by one or two lone guardsSee it proves that they did it as there were lots of people making ready the buildings for taht fateful day. I heard that Wikkileaks has the documentation but are too scared they will get wacked for letting the real thing out. 911 was an inside job and it started with the first President Bush admin. Thank God Clinton admin stopped the original plan and McVeigh from doing more damage .... dang those right wingers. But they persevered and under Shrub the dirty deed was finished. /s
9/11 was NOT an inside job.
Submitted by wiwf on Tue, 11/30/2010 - 1:05pm.
9/11 was NOT an inside job. Get your head on straight, judge.Well,,,there goes any respect I had for him...
Submitted by theprofessor on Tue, 11/30/2010 - 1:19pm.
What is it with these know-it-all types? He provides no evidence besides "I'm not convinced." Well, that's YOUR problem, Judge. If you're not convinced by the evidence already provided, then I would suggest you're not as bright as I thought you were. He should have kept his mouth shut rather than remove all doubt.I'm saddened....
Submitted by almostacowboy on Tue, 11/30/2010 - 2:28pm.
.....to hear the Judge agree with Geraldo on anything, much less this. I feel like I've lost a friend.
Not the first time...
Submitted by theprofessor on Tue, 11/30/2010 - 6:58pm.
the judge went off the rails and into the weeds. The first time I heard him rant about how Cheney should be in prison for war crimes I wondered what kind of a "judge" makes such a statement without seeing all the facts?
da judge
Submitted by dostrow57 on Tue, 11/30/2010 - 1:27pm.
In case anyone cares the judge is also a little light in the loafers
THIS is a fact
i didnt beleive it either at first
Damn those facts, full steam ahead....
Submitted by jdripper on Tue, 11/30/2010 - 1:28pm.
I want the Judge and Geraldo to explain to me how some 20 people (minimum) could walk around a 50 story building for two weeks (minimum) in construction clothes carrying miles and miles of detonator cord working with detanators that could be set off with cell phones and no one noticed this? It would take 2 tons (minimum) of high explosives to bring down a building of that size in the manner it fell.
Someone before they shoot their big mouths off on TV should fist explain how it could have been done wihout anyone noticing before saying it was done beyond the manner in wich the government claims.
Jack
I saw a video of building 7 from the WTC side...
Submitted by upcountrywater on Tue, 11/30/2010 - 1:33pm.
It's gone now...<que twilight music>
The WTC side of building 7 had TONS of the steel facade of the TC building stabbed into it's roof and exposed side. That entire side of the building was thrashed...and had many additional tons of weight to support, and was on fire, steel slowly losing it's temper....
An additional fact was the W 7 was straddling a huge power sub station. The building was literally built on a bridge..
Why on earth listen to facts spoken form many STRUCTURAL ENGINEERS?
Science proof spewed from Screwy fast yappin TV folk...
The newly broken windows blew out from the compressed air blowing out of the falling building...
You Didn't Build That.
The Judge
Submitted by SmartyMarty on Tue, 11/30/2010 - 1:35pm.
Can someone help: The Judge has shown himself to be "eccentric" in at least one previous position he held recently, which also was contrary to reasoned thought.
There exists plenty of things
Submitted by Ashrak on Tue, 11/30/2010 - 1:38pm.
There exists plenty of things we do not know about the events of 9-11, not withstanding things leading up to that tragic day. Many lies have been told covering various behinds, documents have been stolen from the National archives, and clear semantics were engaged in within the 9-11 commission report.
However, there is NO DOUBT that self-proclaimed Muslims attacked this country using her civilian infratructure to destroy more of her civilian infrastructure and kill specifically targeted civilians.
Only the pentagon was a legitimate target, though the means was still out of bounds, as we must remember open war was declared upon us, twice, by the very group that attacked us that day.
Many dismiss what happened some 70 or 80 feet underground as buildings fell around tower 7. This is nonsense. crumble the base of anything and what is built atop it will fall, no doubt.
Are there plenty of questions remaining unanswered about 9-11? Damn straight there is. Will the truthful answers to any/all of them change the fact that Muslims attacked this nation in the name of Allah with the goal of Islam (submission) in an attempt to destroy the strongest enemy standing in the way of Islam's global domination?
Nope.
There is no doubt in my mind that elements within our government knew full well something major was afoot. Anyone paying attention to Al Qaeda knew that to be true. What could have been done to stop it from happening? Go to war beforehand, as we did in Afghanistan afterward? Ummmm, look at how media and lefties responded to doing that very thing in Iraq even AFTER 9-11.
From WTC 93, to Embassies in Tanzania and Kenya, from the USS Cole to Somalia, from the millennium bomber to Bojenka, From 9-11-2001 to the September financial debcle of 2008 - it is clear there are formidable forces at war with this nation, her people and the Liberty and justice they stand for. Those forces saw division surrounding the 2000 election and struck a deep wedge down that fracture. That fracture remains to this day.
The way to repair it is to air things like this openly and discuss them forthrightly. One thing is for sure - that has not yet happened in this country.
Its pretty simple
Submitted by client8 on Tue, 11/30/2010 - 1:46pm.
High-Rise buildings are made of steel. Contrary to what Rosie O'Donnell thinks, fire melts steel. However, it doesn't need to melt to fail. It just needs to soften. A raging fire can bring about those temperatures very easily. When a floor is supported by trusses it is extremely strong, EXCEPT against certain forces, like fire and impact loads. The phenomenon of impact load explains why the floors came down in such a straight fashion. The trusses gave way in pancake fashion.
Right, #8!
Submitted by almostacowboy on Tue, 11/30/2010 - 2:30pm.
"Contrary to what Rosie O'Donnell thinks, fire melts steel."My thoughts exactly.
These guys don't understand
Submitted by Radical1979 on Tue, 11/30/2010 - 2:48pm.
These guys don't understand how the towers were built, why would they understand how they fell? They weren't all called WTC #_ for no reason. The structures were built to work together for engineering purposes.
Let's worry about what our governement in doing TODAY, that is destroying our freedoms and our great country.
Who really funds al see igh
Submitted by pwoz on Tue, 11/30/2010 - 2:54pm.
Who really funds al see igh aye duh?
Greenies like Hamas....
Submitted by Ashrak on Tue, 11/30/2010 - 3:12pm.
Environmentalists do by stopping Americans from developing American natural resources and thus forcing the purchase of oil and natural gas from abroad.
Jizyah. Plain and simple.
Andrew Napolitano is eccentric and bizarre. Here is a VIDEO of
Submitted by Rush Fan on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 12:30am.
Napolitano on CSPAN BookTV suggesting that President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney should absolutely be indicted and prosecuted for torturing, for spying, for arresting without warrant. Judge Napolitano believes that Bush and Cheney "participated in criminal conspiracies to violate the federal law and the guaranteed civil liberties of hundreds, maybe thousands of human beings."
This man was a New Jersey Superior Court Judge. It is scary to think that there may be hundreds, perhaps thousands of current judges throughout this nation who are as bizarre and freakish as Andrew Napolitano.
P.S. Wikipedia notes that Napolitano has called consumer advocate and frequent presidential candidate Ralph Nader a hero of his.
Rush Fan,
Submitted by Chris Norman on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 12:45am.
Whenever I have watched Napolitano on Fox, he always struck me as delighting at being a contrarian - always "authoratively" opining in just the exact opposite of what the opinion of the host is - especially if that opinion is conventional conservative wisdom. I also remember a post here a few years ago that criticized him as offering "authorative" opinions on federal cases when, his experience was just a state court judge. I think the man is full of himself and his opinions are no more "authorative" than anyone elses.
Chris......I felt the same way you did when I first began to
Submitted by Rush Fan on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 3:02am.
watch Napolitano on Fox News. He seemed like a benign contrarian libertarian lawyer. What a surprise and disappointment I've gotten, as he has revealed himself. I suspect that as he comes further out of the closet with his outlandish beliefs, his time on Fox will come to an end. Yes, I also agree that he is full of himself.
Andrew Napolitano, like Alex Jones, no-longer has any...
Submitted by Dave. on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 12:54am.
...credibility with me.
Everything they say is pretty much tainted.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
Link for debunking the twoofers.
Submitted by Flashman on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 1:09am.
Check out this place, they've been debunking the myths for a long time.
http://screwloosechange.blogspot.com/
WTC 7 fell at free fall acceleration for 100 feet
Submitted by Mythbuster on Wed, 12/01/2010 - 9:47pm.
This was confirmed in the NIST final report on WTC 7.
Well good for it.
Submitted by The Vet on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 7:35am.
I thought it just floated in mid air.
Glad to know it abides by the laws of physics and gravity. Wheeeeewww.
Free Fall AccelerationAbout 1600, Galileo performed his famous inclined plane experiments and discovered that the acceleration of a freely-falling object is constant - that is, the object's acceleration does not change while the object is in free fall. The acceleration of a freely-falling object - any freely-falling object - near the surface of the Earth is about 9.8 m/s2 (which is conveniently close to 10 m/s2 for rough calculations). In the "customary" system of units, g = 32 ft/s2 or about 22 mi/hr/s. This acceleration value is commonly called "g". The direction of this acceleration is downward (toward the center of the Earth).
Free fall acceleration is different on other planets - it depends on the planet's size and mass. The table below shows some approximate values of "g" for selected objects in our solar system.
Not a conspiracy theory
Submitted by Mythbuster on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 6:49am.
"WTC 7 was a controlled demolition" is a collapse theory backed up by scientific analysis.
"OBL and 19 hijackers did it" is a conspiracy theory backed by nothing.
The FBI has not charged OBL with 9/11 because there is no hard evidence he was invloved.
They have charged him with CONSPIRACY to murder Americans outside the U.S. - in Africa.
NIST did not explain how the towers collapsed. They stopped at collapse initiation.
NIST says thermal expansion initiated the collapse in WTC 7 but the fire that supposedly initiated the collapse had burned out over 1/2 hour earlier.
Videos Not Evidence?
Submitted by sentry_99 on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 6:53am.
Video of said hijackers getting on the planes not good enough?
Phone calls from witnesses on flight 93 faked?
Let's pretend we are not all conspiracy 'tards like you.
Submitted by The Vet on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 7:42am.
Further, let's pretend we don't subscribe to every nutjob conspiracy that comes along. Then let's pretend we are normal and don't spend so much time talking whackjob conspiracy tales that we use acronyms for everything when talking to our fellow conspiraloons.
So tell us what NIST is like a good little loon.
Debunking nonsense 9-11 theories
Submitted by DontFeedTheTrolls on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 7:49am.
Mythbuster indeed. Gee, I know your mind is made up and completely blocks all facts to the contrary, but here is a link to the debunking of your false conspiracy theories.
LINKLINKLINKLINK
Quote this NIST little conspiraloon.
Submitted by The Vet on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 7:53am.
...the fire that supposedly initiated the collapse had burned out over 1/2 hour earlier.
We are not little retards like you that will believe anything that comes along.
I was alive and watching TV 11Sep2001. WTC 7 was on fire right up to the collapse. I SAW IT.
LYING LITTLE CONSPIRALOON THINKS WE ARE STOOPID.
The point is
Submitted by Mythbuster on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 7:56am.
OBL and 19 hijackers is a conspiracy theory.
Only one hijacker is seen getting on a plane and I'm not sure about the phone calls.
The "backed by nothing" referes to OBL being involved.
What I am sure of is the evidence of controlled demolition.
Free fall acceleration for 100 feet cannot happen in a progressive collapse because the buckling steel provides resistance as Dr. Sunder stated:
"a free fall time would be an object that has NO structural components below it . . . . there was structural resistance that was provided in this particular case"
That was before NIST was forced to acknowledge free fall.
Whatever little conspiroloon.
Submitted by The Vet on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 8:09am.
You think we are gonna actually look up and refute your silly conspiracy talk, you are 7 years too late.
Go away little loon. Run along now. Ya bother us. Shoo. Shoo.
C'mon now Vet
Submitted by RESTLESS 1 on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 8:58am.
How can you doubt the mind that cannot figure out how to use the "reply" button?
Most intelligent and fact filled responses ;-)
Submitted by Mythbuster on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 8:08am.
nutjob, wackjob, loon
retard, lying little conspiraloon
WTC 7 was a CD is not a conspiracy theory, it's a collapse theory.
Don't feed the trolls - You are talking to yourself.
As for the fire:
NIST L pg 26 [pdf pg 30]
Around 4:45 p.m., a photograph showed fires Floors 7, 8, 9, and 11 near the middle of the north face; Floor 12 was burned out by this time.
Shoo little loon.
Submitted by The Vet on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 8:13am.
Well you drug it out of me. I was the guy in charge of setting the whole thing up. Demolition, fires, collapses, everything.
And I don't like people that talk, you got it? I know where you live, breathe, eat, sleep & work.
So zip it now or there is gonna be another unexplained collapse on top of a little 'tard that can't keep his mouth shut.
Hey Boss
Submitted by sentry_99 on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 8:34am.
Since you brought it up....I think you owe me a little OT cash for those nights and weekends I was setting up the charges. The holidays are coming and I'm a bit short.
The truth hurts
Submitted by Mythbuster on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 8:23am.
For most people the videos are enough but for those who need proof, there is now the scientific proof of free fall acceleration which can only be a CD.
Some people have a problem dealing with this gut wrenching reality and lash out at the messenger.
Still saying videos not proof?
Submitted by sentry_99 on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 8:33am.
The thing about science is that it changes with each scientist. You keep citing some Dr. SoanSo as proof of a controlled demolition. I am positive this person did not take measurments as the event occurred did he? Did he say......base his calculations on a video?? For some videos are enough but for those who need proof....you get the idea. His entire theory is based on his interpretation of speed and his mathmatical equations to come to his conclusion. If at any point he is wrong, then really his whole conclusion in wrong.
You apparently are the one unable to deal with reality.
We killed 3000 people from our own country.
Submitted by The Vet on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 8:33am.
You don't think one more yappy little retard won't matter?
Go away little loon. You have stumbled upon the motherload website. It was NewsBusters that ordered the whole thing. Or did you not find that in your madeupcrap.loon.org websites.
You keep flapping your lips, things are gonna get ugly then things are gonna go dark.
???
Submitted by RESTLESS 1 on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 8:49am.
You keep flapping your lips, things are gonna get ugly then things are gonna go dark. He's gonna look in the mirror, then pass out?So, in your world
Submitted by RESTLESS 1 on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 8:51am.
The one scientist that believes as you is more correct than all of the scientists at Popular Mechanics that debunked every one of your stupid theories?
The law of gravity and videos do not change
Submitted by Mythbuster on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 8:57am.
David Chandler used an online program to calculate the rate of fall of WTC 7 using a video of the collapse.
NIST confirmed Mr. Chandler's calculations using a different video, different software and a different location on the roof line and got the same result. That amounts to a peer review and constitutes science fact.
Your idea of fact needs work.
Submitted by sentry_99 on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 9:02am.
An online program using video huh? That is nothing like peer review, you should look that up after you look up fact.
And these are posted where?
Submitted by RESTLESS 1 on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 9:03am.
You obviously know nothing about "peer review" or science.
You should probably think of it this way: We cannot change your mind, you damn sure won't change ours. Let's call the whole thing off eh?
You've been duped. It happens. Though dupes don't usually prance around websites displaying their ignorance, as you have here.
Then again, we do get more than our share.
The PM "Debunking" artilce was bunk
Submitted by Mythbuster on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 9:13am.
"NIST's Sunder tells PM. "On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom — approximately 10 stories — about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out."
The graphic on page 183 of the final report on WTC 7 shows the debris damage from WTC 1 and the damage Dr. Sunder described in the PM "Debuking" article is not there.
"Second, a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours. "There was no firefighting in WTC 7," Sunder says. Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel that many tenants used to run emergency generators. Most tanks throughout the building were fairly small, but a generator on the fifth floor was connected to a large tank in the basement via a pressurized line. Says Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time."
There were NO reports of fire on the fifth floor at any time and no reason to think there was a fire. Dr. Sunder knew this. There is no fire on the fifth floor in the final report.
The conspiraloon LIES.
Submitted by The Vet on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 9:21am.
Every single floor of WTC 7 was ablaze. Not one floor escaped the fire. NIST proved it on page 166.
Sentry 99
Submitted by Mythbuster on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 9:19am.
Read the second sentence. NIST used a video too. That's the only way to calculate the fall.
It's in the final report. WTC 7 fell at free fall acceleration for about 100 feet and all the insults in the world won't change that.
That is it.
Submitted by The Vet on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 9:23am.
We are sending a black ops black helicopter crew to your location right now. They will be there in 14.7 minutes. You are gonna find you first hand whether we still torture people or not.
Run little loon. You can try but you won't get far.
Relentless
Submitted by Mythbuster on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 9:24am.
Here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3mudruFzNw
Read your previous post...
Submitted by sentry_99 on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 9:24am.
"For most people the videos are enough but for those who need proof....."
Your truther garbage has been debunked and all the denial in the world won't change that.
The Vet
Submitted by Mythbuster on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 9:54am.
Page 122 [pdf page 166] is just the spread sheet with no data.
Visual Observations of Fire Growth and Spread in WTC 7
begins on page 194 [pdf pg 238]
There were fires on floors 19, 22, 29 and 30 at the south west corner but they burned out before 2:00 p.m.
In the afternoon there were fires on floors 7, 8, 9, 11, 12 and 13 at different times moving in different directions.
Wrong.
Submitted by The Vet on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 10:05am.
Visual Observations of Fire Growth and Spread in WTC 7 begins on page 204 [pdf pg 288]
LIAR.
Maybe all those fires moving around should have hooked up and started a real party. Retard.
I GOT THE NIST RIGHT HERE IN FRONT OF ME. It directly contradicts what you say.
There were fires on floors 01, 02,, 03 and 04 at the north west corner but they burned out before 4:00 p.m.
In the afternoon there were fires on floors 17, 18, 19, 20 , 22 and 23 at different times moving in different directions until they converged and got really really big.
LIAR. LIAR. LIAR.
The vet
Submitted by Mythbuster on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 10:09am.
Incorrect. Here is the URL
http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/PDF/NCSTAR%201-9%20Vol%201.pdf
Are you calling me a liar now?
Submitted by The Vet on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 10:13am.
I got the NIST right here in front of my face. PAGE 166 - Every single floor of WTC 7 was ablaze. Not one floor escaped the fire. RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF MY FACE.
You better not be calling me a liar, boy.
We must be reading different reports.
Submitted by Mythbuster on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 10:20am.
Did you click on the URL I posted? It's the NIST site.
It is as I said:
5.6.3 Visual Observations of Fire Growth and Spread in WTC 7
begins on pg 194 [pdf pg 238]
It's been big fun but I must go for a while.
Y'all enjoy your echo chamber.
I'll be back. >:-{
Are you still calling me a liar boy?
Submitted by The Vet on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 11:51am.
I got the NIST right here in front of my face. I said what I said and that is what I said. And I quoted the NIST exactly like it is in front of my face.
Wait. I get it. You are accusing me of posting any old crap without regard to the truth, facts or reality. IS THAT WHAT YOU ARE DOING BOY? YOU SAYING I WILL JUST THROW ANY OLD CRAP OUT THERE? Because there is only one person I know that does that.
Duh, you seem confused today.
Submitted by Guttermouth's Return on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 2:11pm.
Duh, you seem confused today. Looks like you found some new liberals to play with, including members you tagged as...me.
Hint, Duh: I'm not up at 5am.
**** off nwahs.
Submitted by The Vet on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 10:27pm.
The only acceptable response from you are "Yes Sir, JWF" or "Whatever you say, JWF". You got that?
Yes Sir, JWF! I've been
Submitted by Guttermouth's Return on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 10:36pm.
Yes Sir, JWF!
I've been waiting a long time for that option.
~Now drop and give me $20
Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 1:48pm.
Yeah, we take your lunch money here, too.
Wait, what!?! I'm doing
Submitted by Guttermouth's Return on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 2:01pm.
Wait, what!?! I'm doing push-ups here when I suddenly realize there's a dollar sign in front of the "20."
And you know how much I hate exercise!!!
^&^%%&^$^#$%#ing $$%#%Y$%#$#!!!!!!!!!
~Don't worry
Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 2:12pm.
I'll redistribute your money to the nearest poor person and the exercise is for your own good. You don't want to be a burden on the system, do you? Now hand over those smokes and report to the cafeteria for your fat-free, salt-free, cholesterol-free, taste-free State-Approved lunch.
Did we liberals really turn
Submitted by Guttermouth's Return on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 2:27pm.
Did we liberals really turn our country into a nutritional prison?
What happens if I'm surfing and accidentally swallow some saltwater? Am I screwed?
I supposed we asked for it. What's your paypal name so I can send over that $20? Did I say $20? Let's make it an even $47 and call it a deal.
~Look on the bright side
Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 2:44pm.
Happy Meals may be banned, but drugs will soon be legal! Cuz it's all about your health and everyone knows drugs never killed nobody! Happy Meals, on the other hand, have caused the death of many an innocent, hopeful young lad lured down a dark alley by the smell of hot, salty fries.
You can just fork over all ya got to "ifyerlifedon'tsuckyetwe'llfixthat@yourhelpfulgovagency.com"
(This Public Service Announcement brought to you by the extorted tax dollars of a smoker near you)
Funny you should mention
Submitted by Guttermouth's Return on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 2:52pm.
Funny you should mention that. I'm taking off early today to start picketing my local McDonald's. It's obvious this evil empire is destroying America one McNugget at a time. Of course it's Friday, so I might stop in for a Filet-O-Fish, hold the sodium, to energy up for my evening.
Oh how I miss the days of the Friday night fish fry. I hope my brothers and sisters in Western NY can dig themselves out of the snow in time for the old Friday tradition.
Hold on, stop the presses! That's not a government agency address - they all end in .gov.
I feel I've been scammed, and I want my push-ups back.
~I'm sorry
Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 2:58pm.
No refunds.
We're like the TSA, we can do whatever we want and you have to take it. Your push-ups have already been given to some poor devil we wanted to stick it to.
Now bring us back some McNuggets, we must inspect the packages for explosive material. You aren't cleared for that kind of access, just hand over the bag and assume the position.
Position assumed. But
Submitted by Guttermouth's Return on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 3:09pm.
Position assumed. But please, be gentle. I'm been beaten over the head so many times lately that a small section of my skull has gone soft. It's on the right side, just over the ear. No, MY right, not yours.
McChitlins are on the way - apparently the teamsters stopped the McNugget delivery at the border and replaced delicious chicken parts with pig intestine. You won't know the difference!
~You didn't get the memo, apparently
Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 3:52pm.
They've always been made with delicious pig intestine, prole. The scurrilous rumor regarding the use of "chicken" material is pure propaganda spread by right-wingnuts who hate our Dear Reader.
Your head injury will only cause blindness in your left eye, numbness in your extremities, a slight lisp, and intermittent erectile dysfunction. You are therefore being prescribed a pill, since you clearly do not need an operation. The doctor will give you more info during your appointment, in approximately 6 months.
Don't hang up! You've been selected to participate in a survey on the quality and effectiveness of ObamaCare.
To select
"Fabulous" press 1.
"Exceptional" press 2.
"Brilliant" press 3.
"I'll say anything you want just please don't shoot me" press 4.
Wow - you were right. The
Submitted by Guttermouth's Return on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 4:19pm.
Wow - you were right. The dizziness is setting in and my right eye (not left, oddly enough) is twitching out of control. The lisp was always there, though it seems your prescription fixed it right up. Now on to the ED issue... I understand they have a pill, but I've already got all of the side effects!
Okay, I'm gonna go curl up into a little ball and hide under my desk til the bell rings.
Ma?
Pa?
You there?
~No worries
Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 4:45pm.
The nice young men in their clean white coats will be arriving shortly in a black helicopter. Just go with them and everything will be fine.
Alright everyone, move along. Nothing to see here. Ted? No, no one named Ted has ever worked here. I'm sorry, you must be mistaken. If you know what's good for you.......yes, good, that's it, you were thinking of someone else, that's right. Ned. You meant to say "Ned", that's what I thought. Nope, wrong building. This is the Quality Control Dept. of the Weed Management Service, you want the Division of Praise and Adoration in the Media Department. Go out that door and take two lefts.
I should have recognized it
Submitted by Guttermouth's Return on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 5:20pm.
I should have recognized it immediately by the bong shaped building and the scent of reefer blowing from the singular smoke stack.
And I hate you for linking me back to those nice young men in their clean white coats. It was bad enough when they took me away for the first time.
Ha ha ho ho hee hee....
-Sven
Oh Wrathful....that's
Submitted by bassndude on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 2:33pm.
Oh Wrathful....that's priceless! lol...
Save a SeAL, club a liberal/troll!!
~...
Submitted by Wrathful Brunette on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 3:56pm.
I was just getting warmed up. ;)
So I've noticed :)
Submitted by bassndude on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 4:15pm.
So I've noticed :)
Save a SeAL, club a liberal/troll!!
Mme Furieux*
Submitted by cajun2 on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 4:15pm.
If you are just getting warmed up, the trolls better be wearing haz-mat suits.....;-)
I invite the readers of this therad
Submitted by Mythbuster on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 8:51pm.
to click on this link and see who is correct.
http://wtc.nist.gov/NCSTAR1/PDF/NCSTAR%201-9%20Vol%201.pdf
(No subject)
Submitted by Mythbuster on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 10:21am.
Busted, finally the truth comes out... NO SUBJECT....
Submitted by upcountrywater on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 5:47pm.
The times you are talking about, free fall.... VS whatever else you are making a big deal over is such a small amount of time, that, that event WILL NOT SHOW UP ON A VIDEO. Maybe a high speed video, but so what.
How much slower did the twin towers fall, beings that they were filled with human life? What! .001 sec or .0001 sec.
BUT BUT, How about those windows being blown out, look MYTH the windows are broken as soon as the building starts it's plunge, compressed air in the building escapes through the window openings. Explosion implies super sonic speeds, none of that there, on any videos at any time...
All the KOOK liberals in my part of DEEP BLUE lefty land FEEL that it was Buuuuush that did it....
Not one liberal IN MY DEEP BLUE STATE thinks it was an ATTACK...
You Didn't Build That.
It's not the amount of time
Submitted by Mythbuster on Thu, 12/02/2010 - 8:57pm.
It's the 100 feet of free fall acceleration that cannot happen in a progressive collapse.
It's all here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v3mudruFzNw
Myth, Much better video here
Submitted by upcountrywater on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 1:16am.
As you can see 1 of the three trusses gave way 8 seconds before the entire building fell.
You Didn't Build That.
That video is BUNK
Submitted by Mythbuster on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 4:54am.
The video you posted indicated that the debris damage from WTC 1 had weakened WTC 7. This is not true.
In the final report NIST said:
"Other than initiating the fires in WTC 7, the damage from the debris from WTC 1 had little effect on initiating the collapse of WTC 7."
Then it shows this quote from the Popular Mechanics "debunking" article::
"On about a third of the face to the center and to the bottom — approximately 10 stories — about 25 percent of the depth of the building was scooped out."
Shyam Sunder stated that as a fact. It wasn't.
In the final report on page 183 there is a graphic showing the debris damage from WTC 1. The gouge Shyam Sunder described is not there. He lied.
Then the screen says: "WTC7's fires were likely fed by a series of diesel generators located on the lower floors, which is where most of the fires were concentrated.
in the same PM "debunking" article:
Second, a fifth-floor fire burned for up to 7 hours. "There was no firefighting in WTC 7," Sunder says. Investigators believe the fire was fed by tanks of diesel fuel that many tenants used to run emergency generators. Most tanks throughout the building were fairly small, but a generator on the fifth floor was connected to a large tank in the basement via a pressurized line. Says Sunder: "Our current working hypothesis is that this pressurized line was supplying fuel [to the fire] for a long period of time."
There were no fires reported on floor 5 at any time and there was no reason to think there was a fire in the north-east generator room on that floor. Shyam Sunder knew this at the time, another blatant lie.
* * * * *
The screen then shows a series of statements:
"WTC 7 was also uniquely designed in that its entire upper section above the 7th floor was supported by three main trusses."
This is utterly false, a total fabrication. Truss 1 supported column 76 which was not under the east penthouse. Truss 2 supported columns 77 and 78 which were under the east penthouse. Truss 3 supported column 61 at the other end of the building.
"Exposed to fires for 7 hours and critically weakened, Truss 1 (in the northeast corner) finally failed at 5:20"
That is a misleading statement. The fires lasted 20 to 30 minutes in any location and then moved on.
"This initial collapse progressed vertically all the way to the roof, as evidenced by the collapse of the east penthouse."
"Unable to handle the redistributed weight, the two remaining columns gave way about 8 seconds later, resulting in a complete collapse of the building."
To actually say in a video that the entire building was held up by 3 trusses is laughable.
Your "debunking" video, like the Popular Mechanics "debunking" article is BUNK.
Go away whichwing.
Submitted by The Vet on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 5:11am.
You were banned once for your being a troofer.
Go away.
Myth, Your videos do not mention the 8 sec delay..
Submitted by upcountrywater on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 5:35pm.
The truss FAILED the building stood for another 8 seconds...
"Exposed to fires for 7 hours and critically weakened, Truss 1 (in the northeast corner) finally failed at 5:20" HELLO MYTH THE TRUSS FAILED BTW, The "demo sounds", you refer to are sounds AFTER THE BUILDING IS ALREADY FALLING..Here is a video behind glass, the blast sounds are LOUD...
And there is a few seconds before the building starts falling.
Quit-it with the same worthless link.
You Didn't Build That.
All the KOOK liberals
Submitted by Jer on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 1:27am.
All the KOOK liberals in my part of DEEP BLUE lefty land FEEL that it was Buuuuush that did it....Not one liberal IN MY DEEP BLUE STATE thinks it was an ATTACK...
Yeah...right, ucw.
Maybe so IN YOUR DEEP STATE of Delusion. But not in the real world. ;-)
Jer
I would love to be all jokey too but I can't
Submitted by The Vet on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 1:33am.
Loony conspiratroll brings obvious lies and expects us to buy it whole hog without question.
I throw out some obvious lies of my own and loony conspiratroll thinks that needs to be argued endlessly even though they are obvious lies.
Loony conspiratroll doesn't see the problem in the logic.
Vet...
Submitted by Jer on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 1:52am.
I just don't even think it's worth your time. It's like arguing with someone convinced the moon landings all took place just outside of Flagstaff, Arizona.
Jer
Ah. You are right.
Submitted by The Vet on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 2:38am.
I did have him going there. No, srsly, look on page 166. It is a spreadsheet with no data.
What a goob.
Yea, Jer, that would be Hawaii
Submitted by upcountrywater on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 1:39am.
A place where the democrats picked up additional seats this year.
We like tourist folk like you, drop $500 bucks a day...come on over..
Head on out to the jungle and scare up some feral humans and chat with then yourself, enjoy.../p>
You Didn't Build That.
Wow...more seats for the Dems?
Submitted by Jer on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 2:00am.
Yet another reason I love Hawaii. Maybe I should move there. Interested in a time share swap? I'm surrounded by conservatives here in GA..
Jer
And here, also. Do you
Submitted by Chris Norman on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 2:47am.
And here, also. Do you surround yourself deliberately?
Well, Chris...
Submitted by Jer on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 2:59am.
Here, yes. Otherwise, yes and no. (I married into a bunch of 'em.)
Jer
Still sounds to me like you
Submitted by Chris Norman on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 3:08am.
Still sounds to me like you enjoy hanging out with conservatives. Implying no criticism - just sayin'...
I haven't really analyzed it
Submitted by Jer on Fri, 12/03/2010 - 6:27pm.
I haven't really analyzed it [paging Dr. Sam], but I suppose there could very well be a measure of missionary zeal involved. ;-)
Jer