Liberals Manage to Find Classism in Williams's Tantrum

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Who would have thought Karl Marx would rear his ugly head at the US Open. But some liberals just could not help attributing Serena Williams's match-ending outburst in her semifinal match against Kim Clijsters to class warfare.

Here's what happened. Williams supposedly foot-faulted on her second serve to put Clijsters one point away from the match. Rather than challenging the call or sucking it up and moving on--as any respectable tennis player would--she threw a tantrum, and told the line judge she was going to "shove this ball down your f***ing throat." There are also reports of her uttering some 'motherf***ers' afterward.

She lost the point, and was penalized another, giving Clijsters the match. This was her second outburst of the match. After losing the first set, Williams smashed the frame of her racquet on the court. These outbursts would be unacceptable at any level of play, let alone in Arthur Ashe Stadium during the US Open.

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But according to the Huffington Post, I'm only saying that because I'm afraid of Williams's urban roots, or something.

Now I want you to honestly ask yourself the following. If a lineswoman had called a questionable foot fault on Andy Roddick in the final game of his marathon Wimbledon battle royale against Roger Federer, near match point no less, what would the general reaction of most tennis fans -- particularly American tennis fans -- have been? Or if a linesman had called a foot fault on Melanie Oudin at a crucial point during her fairy tale like run at the Open (where I had the immense pleasure of seeing her play) what would the general reaction of the fans filling Arthur Ashe stadium have been? If the way we behaved during her match against Dementieva is any indication, then I'm guessing we would have seen an Attica-like riot.

Now that's a big if, for the sole reason that neither Roddick nor Oudin smashed their racquets on the court or shouted obscenities and threats at line judges.

Before the eye rolling begins, let me be clear. I am not arguing that Serena Williams -- with her countless titles and millions of dollars -- has somehow been a victim of racial bias. But I don't think anyone who is a real tennis fan can argue that she hasn't been a victim of some bias throughout her and her sister's, history-making careers, and Saturday night was one such moment.

No, Saturday night was a moment of extreme inappropriateness on Williams's part. Yes, it was a bad call. But that does not excuse her actions. And it was her actions that lost her the match, not the double fault.

Every tennis fan [is wrong] who isn't willing to honestly admit that Saturday's call never would have happened, nor been deemed acceptable for any other player under those circumstances.

Let me assure you that they would not have been deemed acceptable for any player who threatened a line judge. That is simply, well, unacceptable.

HuffPo complained that "Tennis remains, to this day, very much a country club-esque sport, and while the Williams scream a lot of things, country club is not one of them." Notwithstanding the author's insistence that there is no anti-Williams racial bias at play, this comment certainly smacks of racial connotations. Country clubs are, after all, the quintessential bastions of American WASPs. What do the Williams sisters scream? The ghetto?

Regardless of their successes tennis players are not permitted to disregard the rules and regulations of the game simply because they didn't learn to play in a country club, or they don't embody the typical tennis player in "pristine tennis whites," in HuffPo's words.

The game of tennis will not allow these immature outbursts simply to accomodate the eccentric (in the tennis world) demeanors and attitudes of the Williams sisters, or any other professionals for that matter, no matter the player's race, background, or upbringing.

 

UPDATE

Thank you to NewsBusters users balboa and nwahs for pointing out the specious use of the term "respectable" in describing the way in which Ms. Williams could or should have acted. I did not mean to imply that Serena is not a respectable tennis player, or that respectable tennis players do not lose their tempers. Ms. Williams's actions, not her character, were the topic of this post. She is a tremendous and very respectable athlete.


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→ Can't escape it

Even an accomplished phenom, with prestigious titles already under her belt, must be treated with the soft bigotry of low expections.

The liberals can't help it.  You see, now they expect she is forever in their debt.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

soft bigotry

"soft bigotry of low expectations."

Very well put.  My husband says this all the time, too.  Liberals see themselves of the saviors of those who can't help themselves. If a group of people (read : voters) start to think they can, they do everything that they can to prove otherwise.

"ho would have thought Karl

"ho would have thought Karl Marx would rear his ugly head at the US Open."

Anyone who knows the real orientation of the present administration and its fawning news media.

ANYONE who has ever competed

ANYONE who has ever competed in sports has gone through having bad calls and carrying on. It is part of the game. One just sucks it up, moves on....period.

one just sucks it up and moves on...

not in today's world of athletes and entertainers.

"The game of tennis will

"The game of tennis will not allow these immature outbursts simply to accomodate the eccentric (in the tennis world) demeanors and attitudes of the Williams sisters, or any other professionals for that matter, no matter the player's race, background, or upbringing."

I see a Tennis Czar being named the near future to right this wrong.

→ Dan Diego

Glad you added that last quip.

Tennis got rocked to sleep during the dull, boring, robotic Lendl thru Sampras years.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

Lol...DD... Calling Billy

Lol...DD...

Calling Billy Jean King...I think Riggs left us awhile back, heck he was a normal white male, wouldn't qualify anyway.

'Go Green...Recycle Congress'

GAME, SET, & MATCH...

 She lost her cool over what I think was a very questionable call. But it's not like Serena has'nt been around the block. She was the defending champion, she has won a ton of majors, she knows what's going on, & she has no excuses. This has nothing to do with Williams being from Compton, it has everything to do with acting out of order...on live TV...with very good mics at courtside...catching everything she said about stuffing a tennis ball down the linejudge's throat...F-bombs & all...It's not about race or class, it was about Serena's lack of class in that moment.

That said, I have not seen a good blowup like that in a while. Ususally it comes from the guys, it was refreshing to see it from the gals for a change.

 

 

"...How blind can you be, don't you see...

...that the gambler lost all he does not have..."  

Nightwish

danybhoy...

As much as I despise bad behavior, as a tennis fan I'm hoping it will at least create a little buzz in this country for tennis.  The sport desperately needs it.

BTW, in remarks after her match today, Serena was extremely apologetic. 

Jer

the threat of sanctions...

...could be a factor in this late apology, but I'll give her the benefit of the doubt here. End of story.

 

Healthcare...Food...Education...Housing... - What sprouted as free for some is maturing into a free-for-all.

JER...

I agree, I have been to a few tennis events here in Minneapolis, I have seen Davis Cup vs Sweden, I love the sport. But it does need more colorful players & personalities. Johnny McEnroe, Jimmy Conners, Boris Becker, & others used to put on a show out there. As good as Sampras was & Federer is, they are boring. Although I saw where Federer got a little profane. So there is hope.

Nice to see the women getting a little catty as well, drama never hurt the ratings & interest in the game.

 

"...How blind can you be, don't you see...

...that the gambler lost all he does not have..."  

Nightwish

OPPS...

Double post...

Expect Serena Williams to

Expect Serena Williams to level charges of racism in

3... 2... 1

Classism? No.

No classism. Just a large absence of class.

I guess John McEnroe was disadvantaged

I guess John McEnroe was disadvantaged when he played tennis: as a white male, he had no one to blame for his misfortune but himself.

 

"Reason and persuasion are the only practical instruments against error.  To make way for these, free inquiry must be indulged" - Thomas Jefferson

Actually, he did blame the

Actually, he did blame the umpire and linesmen all the time. Though to his credit he never blamed Bjorn Borg.

John McEnroe used to get

John McEnroe used to get away with this kind of stuff all the time. But he was a white male..so I guess that made it ok. Now he's a respected(?) commentator.

mandrake...I don't know how...

"respected" McEnroe is...I'm roughly the same age as he is, love tennis, and remember well watching him and his antics back in the day. I couldn't stand his behavior then, and I'm still not nuts about him today because of it...That type of horrendously disruptive and disrespectful behavior sticks with you, no matter how many years go by. 

"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan

Prairie... IMO, McEnroe

as a tennis commentator is all the things he wasn't as a tennis player:  funny, self-deprecating, charming, professional [in his behavior]

Jer

→ Disagree Jer

Not that Mac isn't a great commentator.

Wimbledon 1980, Borg/McEnroe was a match for the ages.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

Cool, that was the best tennis match ever played, PERIOD.

Actually, that wasn't tennis, that was war.

They still run it every so often, too.  :-)

-Dave

I agree with Rush. It's time for Obama to resign.

Second best.  Nothing tops

Second best.  Nothing tops Federer/Nadal--2008 Wimbledon

Jer

Jer...I agree that as a person, he's...

definitely better as a commentator today, than was his behavior as a player, yesterday. No doubt about it. Maybe he finally grew up a little. His behavior just made an impression on me back then (I was much younger, sigh...), and colored my general attitude toward him.

McEnroe was a great player to watch, though.

"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan

Yes, a great player, but

Yes, a great player, but not quite as great as some of the "experts" of the day claimed.  I recall one of them wrote an article for Tennis magazine, comparing all of the top players to that date, and ridiculously declared Mac the best of all time.  He ranked his forehand a "9" on a scale of 1-10, and even McEnroe admits his forehand was mediocre.

His on-court antics colored my opinion too.  I couldn't stand him.  But I like him now--off the court.  And he is profoundly dedicated to the sport of tennis.  Sampras, for example, retired and just disappeared for far too long.

Jer

→ Yeah, Yeah

And with my 550cc driver, I can knock the ball farther than Bobby Jones ever did.

And Merlin Olsen was a giant @ 270 lbs.  Never had to tackle a Christian Okoye @ 250 lbs.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

and if Hank and The Babe had

and if Hank and The Babe had some "juice"...

Sure Cool...

And with my 550cc driver, I can knock the ball farther than Bobby Jones ever did.

Sure Cool...maybe if you were on the moon.

Jer

ILLEGAL...

 Jer,

A driver with a 550cc clubhead is nonconforming & thus, illegal(in golf terms). The largest allowed is 460cc. All the big name clubmakers have 460cc drivers.

Also, just a note, Bobby Jones with today's equipment would be fun to see. He had hickory (to be fair, everybody then did as well)shafted clubs with crap balls, rather then having all the advantages of modern technology in golf today. I would love to see what Jones could do with a bag full of Callaway clubs.

 

"...How blind can you be, don't you see...

...that the gambler lost all he does not have..."  

Nightwish

danybhoy...

I read an article about Jones maybe twenty years ago in which the author reminded readers just how long Jones was off the tee.  He could crush it 300 yards--even with the hickory sticks.  And if you have seen Jones' instructional videos, and watch the ball rocket off his club face, it's not hard to believe.

Jer

Good evening Jer

Comment sa vais mon ami? How are you my friend?

Amarillo Slim once made a bet that he could hit a golf ball a mile. No out of an airplane, downhill, or off a cliff and he did it.

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

→ That's right coco

On a frozen lake.

Found the ball 8 miles downrange.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

Good evening Cool

Haven't been on here in a while. Nice to hear your voice. I pray all is well with you.

I always thought that was one of the cleverest bets I ever heard.

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

→ Me too, coco

I heard him tell it on ABC Wide World Of Sports back about a hundred years ago.

So clever, I never forgot it.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

Cool

All my stories are old and tired, just like me.

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

→ I understand

I wish I wasn't as old and weak as my cup of coffee

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

Make coffee and chicory

If you make it right you can use it for drain cleaner, primer, paint, paint remover, roofing repair, why you can even drink it. It'll put hair on your chest.

Maybe you better go easy on it BT. Your husband may not be partial to hairy chests.

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

Uh coco...you were

Uh coco...you were responding to CA...

I think? I hope? 

(You have no idea how I am laughing here coco, glad you're back.)

'Go Green...Recycle Congress'

→ It's OK bt

I'm fully aware of the halucinogenic properties of chicoree.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

Hey coco... Where the

Hey coco...

Where the heck ya been...I've missed ya, was getting a little worried as well.

Anyway, you and Cool have filled me in on something I missed somewhere along the way in my life over time.

Glad to know about this...brought a big grin to my face.

'Go Green...Recycle Congress'

Good evening BT

Been busy and lazy. You sure you want us to recycle that putrid DC garbage?

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

coco... See to me, in my

coco...

See to me, in my neck of the woods, the latest recycling thing is some dang-fangled thing called the 'wood-chipper'.

Who knew...tried it out...works for me.  ;-)

'Go Green...Recycle Congress'

BT

You related to Jimmy Hoffa?

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

Coco... Nope. I'm my

Coco...

Nope.

I'm my own 'Mob'

'Go Green...Recycle Congress'

Golly, 40 miles south

Where have you been Coco? You've been missed!

My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

Hi coco... Good to see

Hi coco...

Good to see you.  My problem is that my golf ball travels laterally about the same distance that it travels forward.

Jer

There is a cure

Stand perpendicular to the flag? Thats what I do? seriously?

 

 My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

gc...

That could be the best golf tip I've gotten in a long time.  Seriously.

Jer

Jer...Agreed...

Mac was great, but not "the" greatest...That's for sure.

Sampras did disappear, didn't he? Wow. 

"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan

Johnnie Mac, et.al.

I remember watching McEnroe and Connors as a youngster and rooting for their opponents because I couldn't stand their boorish behavior. Same holds true for Agassi in his 'rebel' years. Now Agassi is my favorite male player. I like McEnroe now, but still don't care for Connors.

Thankfully Roger and Rafa have class (though Roger had a rare slip today).

                  ~~save your tea, dump congress~~

mom_rox

That "slip" by Federer was even more stunning than his losing the match.  But, it can be forgiven when compared with his long history of splendid conduct.

Interestingly, the media folks are nearly unanimous in their opinion that Nadal is perhaps the nicest, most courteous and most accommodating major sports figure they have ever encountered.

Jer

Jer

He was actually sort of self-deprecating, and funny, too, in a way when he threw tantrums. He's from my 'hood, and just a typical spoiled rich kid Manhattanite, but with some white-guy-esque street smarts.

 

He was fined at least once,

He was fined at least once, defaulted (ejected) at least once and his tantrums led to changes in the code of conduct for tennis. Doesn't justify his behavior, but he also suffered for it.

...and McEnroe got in

...and McEnroe got in trouble all the time. Plus I think that tennis has toughened up since then on outbursts. 

mandrupe, I don't recall Mouth-and-ro ever threatening to...

...kill another human being.

EVER.

Accusing the judges of not "being serious," perhaps, but he never threatened to stuff tennis balls down the judge's throats until they died.

-Dave

I agree with Rush. It's time for Obama to resign.

mandrupe? I much prefer the

mandrupe? I much prefer the name manjerk if it's all the same to you..thanks.

 

Did he?

"John McEnroe used to get away with this kind of stuff all the time. But he was a white male..so I guess that made it ok."

Did he now?

"McEnroe was cited for three offenses by the chair umpire, Richard
Ings of Australia, all in the second set when McEnroe became angry at
calls by the linesmen and inaction on the part of Ings.

The first warning was for unsportsmanlike behavior, which Farrar thought
was worth the minimum $500 fine. The second offense was for verbal
abuse of Ings, costing McEnroe a point during the match. Farrar levied
the maximum penalty of $5,000."

How about a little more of Johnny Mac gettin' away with it:

"As contrite as McEnroe was for losing his poise during his victory
against Slobodan Zivojinovic in the third round of the United States
Open, Farrar decided that his outbursts on the court had gone too far.
McEnroe was fined $7,500, which carried with it an automatic two-month
suspension."

Yep, Johnny Mac, priveleged white guy, was always getting away with it.

"McEnroe has been fined a total of $35,850 this year(1987) and $80,500 for his career."

http://www.nytimes.c...

As bad as he was though, I don't ever recall JM threatening to shove a mf'ing ball down a line judge's throat. But it wouldn't surprise me.

Oh, and by the way....it's 2009 now, not the 1970s/1980s. It's because of JM that tennis started cracking down on such behavior.

And btw, McEnroe's still

And btw, McEnroe's still just as big a jerk on the tennis court now as he was then. Connors, too.

Penalized and fined.

"John McEnroe used to get away with this kind of stuff all the time."

He didn't "get away" with that behavior.  He, too, was penalized a number of times, and also fined, for his unsportsmanlike behavior.  He did it so often that it became his trademark.  He even joked that he'd be penalized if he didn't act out!

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
The US Constitution

Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court

idiot reverse racists like mandrake

it's funny to think that not too long ago, reverse-bigots like mandrake were the majority on the interent and ruled most discussion groups.

→ RayRay

Reverse racism and reverse bigotry don't make sense to me.

The terms imply a greater right to grievance for one group than another.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

I just want to say for the

I just want to say for the record that as I watched the NFL yesterday, I saw, on more than one occasion, white referees calling penalties on black players. I have no idea what that means, and I'm not saying that all white referees are racist, but it did happen...and I was disturbed by it. /sarc

→ Me too Keyser

Not only that, but I noticed a lot of black on black violence while watching.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

CA~~

I was equally disturbed by the number of "shotgun" formations used. Not that there were actual shotguns on the field...or maybe there were, I don't really know (nor would I put it past some of those southern college boys)...I'm just saying.

Cool...LOL! Quick! Someone call...

Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton! 

"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan

lol

Headlines for NYT tomorrow.

I've had more than enough...

of Serena Williams. She has a rather long history of throwing tantrums and of blaming everyone except herself when things don't go her way in a match. Is she a great player? Sure. But, what happened at the US Open this weekend is another example of Serena's "character problems". The issue of whether or not the foot fault call was a correct call may be debatable. What isn't debatable is regardless of the call, her behavior was reprehensible, and not only should she have been fined, but she also shouldn't have been allowed to play in the doubles final. She should have been banned from the remainder of the tournament immediately. So far, the only punishment she's had has been a $15,000 total fine for unsportsmanlike conduct and racket abuse. For someone who makes as much money as she does, $15,000 is chump change. Apparently, more sanctions may be forthcoming, so we'll see. 

I for one have had enough of Miss Williams.   

"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan

Just wait

tomorrow on the morning shows she'll blame everyone but herself and play the race card...just like POTUS

American...Yep...I'm actually surprised...

that the "R" word hasn't come out of her mouth yet but, give it time... 

"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan

"r" word

Yes, me too, I'v eheard is before when she goes on the mornign shows.

BTW, I'm reading RR's biography.  Very moving, and compelling picture of his time as President.  Now there is a man I respect.  

American...President Reagan was truly a man and a...

leader for the ages. He was a great man, and I find myself wondering from time to time what he would think about where the country is today, and where it appears to be heading under our current, er, leadership, for lack of a better word. He wouldn't be happy.   

"The problem is not that people are taxed too little...the problem is that government spends too much." ~President Ronald Reagan

You're not going to defend

You're not going to defend Serena's outburst?  Allow me to respond to that as a liberal would, in the realm of today's political environment.....

The only conclusion could be that you're racist. /sarc

emoting

  Emoting is ok. A line judge upset her to the point where she got all Wilson'd up. We can sympathize.

Half story Monday?

Two stories today, give half the story.

The West story ignores Beyonce's class  act to try and rectify West's atrocious behavior. This story plays like no tennis player ever had a melt down before ( McEnroe and Nastase come to mind), and ignores the fact that in spite of the abrupt end to the match, Williams walked over and congratulated he opponent.

Rather than challenging the call or sucking it up and moving on--as any
respectable tennis player would--she threw a tantrum, and told the line
judge she was going to "shove this ball down your f***ing throat."
There are also reports of her uttering some 'motherf***ers' afterward.

Are you new to tennis? Or is this something else?

Two half stories -Must be half story Monday.

Politics is showbiz for ugly people

→ You're right

Beyonce's got class.

Kanye does not

Sereena is a great player who lost her cool, then regained it.

Del Potro kicked butt on Federer in 5.  Great match.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

Thanks

Thats how I see it too. People do stupid things. I just wonder why the good parts were left out of both stories.

Politics is showbiz for ugly people

→ FOX picked up

FOX picked up the graciousness of Beyonce, but not so much on Serena.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

CA & Backwards

Listen, I'm an anti-profanity guy, and pretty straight-laced in how I act day to day, but I've, on occasion, after being so frustrated with my play and then finally hitting a shot, belted out very urban/ghetto-sounding and foul language in the heat of the moment in basketball.

I get funny looks when I do that. Thankfully, just funny. :)

 

Beyonce...

What did Beyonce do? I missed that aspect.

much later in the program

Beyonce made a wonderful gesture to Taylor Swift.  It wasn't originally covered.  The focus was all on what West did.

Kat~

Thanks...the mystery is finally solved -- I had no idea what anyone was talking about! ^_^

That was very classy of Beyonce. :)

the rolling stone story

did eventually add Beyonce's gesture and the later West's apology.  It was a bit belated, but eventually they did complete the picture.

classic liberal preface...

Before the eye rolling begins, let me be clear. I am not arguing that Serena Williams -- with her countless titles and millions of dollars -- has somehow been a victim of racial bias. I......... am............ arguing that Serena Williams -- with her countless titles and millions of dollars -- has somehow been a victim of racial bias.

 

Serena's outburst was

Serena's outburst was understandable (WOW what a time for a foot fault call), but Serena can't do that. I'd be really, really mad if someone called a foot fault on me at that point, but..Serena can't do that. Not because she's black; because she's a tennis player. No tennis player can do that. ANY tennis player who did that would have been treated that way. And she admitted it was wrong afterwards.

→ bal

I didn't see the match.

Weren't there other foot fault calls that should have indicated to her the service line was being watched?

I know it's not always stressed, but different umpires call different strikezones too.

It's a bummer it ended that way.  But it seems Serena was able to get beyond it.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

Not sure if there were other

Not sure if there were other foot faults. If so, then it's obviously a pattern. Watching the replay, if she foot faulted, I sure didn't see it.

Cool...

I didn't see all of the match, but I don't recall any other foot fault calls while I was watching.  However, Serena said in the press conference afterwards that she hadn't been called for one all year until the U.S. Open.  So she was apparently called for it at least in earlier matches of this tournament.

She has gotten a raw deal in a couple of other majors, so maybe that factored into her outburst. 

Bad call...worse reaction.

Jer

This line goes through me

Rather than challenging the call or sucking it up and moving on--as any respectable tennis player would--she threw a tantrum

I've watched tennis for over 30 years and I've seen many respectable tennis players lose it.

Politics is showbiz for ugly people

Yeah, that's a bad

Yeah, that's a bad characterization. TONS of "respectable" players have lost it on the court. Serena is still respectable. She had a bad moment. 

I've been watching since

I've been watching since the likes of Pancho Gonzales amd Althea Gibson were playing.  Best ever:  Roger Federer;  Runner-up:  tie--Laver and Sampras

Jer

I started watching in the

I started watching in the mid 70's. It was Conners, Ashe, Nastase, Borg etc. Before McEnroe, Nastase was the bad boy of tennis but I even remember Connors losing it on occasions. Its a tough game and people are going to have melt downs. To paint this as some sort of aberration is wrong. Its bad behavior without a doubt. But its not some sort of horrendous character defect as its being played as. Its a tantrum.

Politics is showbiz for ugly people

We also happen to be living

We also happen to be living in an era when two of the greatest players of all time, Federer and Nadal, are two of the classiest individuals in the history of the sport--of any sport for that matter.

Jer

Here's a treat for you.

Here's a treat for you.

Thanks, NL...very cool. 

Thanks, NL...very cool.  One of the analysts on The Military's Channel's 'top ten fighters of all time'--which included the Phantom--suggested the distinctive counter-angling of the wing tips and tail were actually compensatory measures to correct inherent flaws in the F-4's aerodynamics. 

By the way, he was a harsh critic of the F-4--in his view:  fast as hell, big and powerful, certainly the best we had to perform the multiple roles for which it was tasked, yet excessive weight and lack of agility hampered its effectiveness as an air superiority fighter, even (especially?) against, the less sophisticated MiG-17s, 19s and 21s.  Of course, the absence of a gun in the earlier models was universally considered a serious blunder--particularly in light of the type of aerial combat faced by pilots in Vietnam.  You may disagree completely, partially or not all.  Quite frankly, he was highly contemptuous of the whole notion of multi-role aircraft. 

Jer

The Phantom is an

The Phantom is an inherently stable design.  Shucks, it only dates from 1956, long before automatic flight stabilization controls were available.  The first F4H-1 flew in '58, IIRC.  The wing-elevator config was a refinement derived from McDonnell's previous designs: FH3 Demon and F-101.  Look these up and I'm sure you will see the ancestry.

The only reason the F-4 was ever hampered against any contemporaneous Mig was meddling policy from on high.  The F-4 was designed to fight at medium to long range in an all-missle engagement.  Thr Brass, for political reasons, imposed rules-of-engagement that demanded visual identification of all targets before firing.  Once you are close enough for visual identification, you are too close for missles, switching to guns.  WTF!?!, this damn truck doesn't have a f***ing gun?

FYI, no Navy F-4 ever mounted an integral cannon.  These would be all of the -B, -J, -N and -S models.  The Air Force added the cannon starting with their -E model.  AF -C and -D models have no gun either, proof that foolishness is contagious.

The a/c in the video are F-4J.

What do I think?  The F-4 was an unbelievable aircraft for 1958, but it was designed around a faulty theory of air combat operations.  That theory was disproven by wartime experience and the error was corrected in the F-14.  The size argument is mostly crap.  The F-14 and F-15 aren't appreciably different in size than the Phantom II.  The latter is only the best air suiperiority fighter ever mass produced.  The former is probably the best point defence interceptor ever built.

Thanks, NL, for that very

Thanks, NL, for that very solid analysis (as I expected).--informative and irrefutable.  Please take your seat at the head of the class.

Jer

→ Jer

We're spoiled.  We've seen it all.

Joe Montana
Tiger Woods
Roger Federer
Michael Jordan
Bob Gibson
Derek Jeter
Ronald Reagan

Sorry, couldn't help it.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

You omitted Lawrence

You omitted Lawrence Taylor.  Soemone needs to explain to that inflated ego in San Diego that LT does not stand for LaDanian Tomlinson.

you guys

You guys left out John Starks.

I mean, come on..... JOHN STARKS. Even MJ didn't intimidate him.

Man, do I miss him now with what we're left with.

 

Wow

You all are messing up.

Larry Bird       

Bill Russell

Oscar Robinson

Yaz

Bobby Orr

Larry Mahan

Dee Pickett

Serena may have a temper, but

Serena may have a temper, but that dude can play tennis!

 

Civilized behavior can be learned...

...and self control can be exercised even in the most stressful situations.  And, it can be learned and exercised by people from an incredibly wide spectrum of societal, educational, religious, and racial backgrounds, despite what the "professors" might tell us.  Don't believe it?  I offer exhibit (a):

The United States Marine Corps.  Semper Fi.

(And yes, the other branches, too.  But there's something special about those Marines.)   

 

Yea we get it

Serena isn't civilized. Gotcha blue boy.

Politics is showbiz for ugly people

If only Bob Knight had been

If only Bob Knight had been a Marine.

Jer

Agree, Jer...

There's a whole bunch of people out there who would have benefitted from a couple months at Parris Island...beginning with the most obvious...nah, I'm not gonna say it. 

m4ster chief

O.....go ahead and say it. :-)

Jer

Like at town halls, or a

Like at town halls, or a joint seccesion of congress?

Yes, as contrasted with a

Yes, as contrasted with a Code Pink Demonstration.

were their protests promoted

were their protests promoted or advertised by liberal tv host or network? Were their protests aired on a national network live? Were their protests trumped up to be attended by 35 times the actual numbers?

→ Still squealing enak?

And you, little enak got all wee-weed up all the way home.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

libs

Keep printin this stuff. but really, no one cares what they say about us anymore. Lets roll over them.

Amazing! metaphorsbwithu

Amazing!

metaphorsbwithu

They hate the Irish, too.

They hate the Irish, too. Just ask McEnroe.

This wasn't a race thing,

This wasn't a race thing, the umpire didn't go to the chair umpire because of Serena's race or class, but because of Serena's increasing anger at the time. I mean, have you seen Serena's body, she is a physically intimidating person.

And Andy Roddick has throw tantrums on the court, argued with umpires and he has been punished. And let's not forget the father of the tennis court meltdown, Mr. you cannot be serious John McEnroe. His reputation hasn't been tarnished, but rather quite the opposite. More people know him for the tongue lashings he let out on the tennis court than how many singles titles he won.

This is the first major tantrum Serena has thrown that I can remember, so I am ok with the small (to her) fine of 10,000 dollar and any suspension she may receive.  

edit: I jut seen this on sportsillustrated:

 In an uncharacteristic display, Federer argued with chair umpire Jake Garner during a changeover in the U.S. Open final Monday. He said his opponent, Juan Martin del Potro, was given too much time to challenge a line call.

"I wasn't allowed to challenge after 2 seconds. The guy takes, like, 10," Federer said.

Then the 15-time major champion used a profanity in addressing Garner: "Don't tell me to be quiet, OK? When I want to talk, I talk. I don't give a ... what he said."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/tennis/09/14/federer.profanity.ap/index.html#ixzz0R8ySvKSd

Yeah...he said "sh!t". 

Yeah...he said "sh!t".  The horror!   At least it wasn't the f-bomb.

Jer

→ Jer

The f-bomb?

Passing gas?  SBD?

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

one more comment...

I saw this too...I cracked up...! That 's' bomb went out live over CBS. Priceless !

Threats, show me the threats enak

Serena suggested serious violence, this is the differance. Not that it hasnt been done before, just not with your examples

 

My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

Do you honestly think

Do you honestly think Serena meant anything she said, that she was literally going to shove a tennis ball down the throat of the umpire? No, it was said in the heat of the moment, on a night she was frustrated, and she has apologized.

How many times have you, or anyone said 'I am going to kill you' to a sibling or friend. Granted, I doubt Serena and the umpire are close friends but she has been penalized and has apologized for her actions. End of story.  

Do words have meaning?

Or not? 

My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

Words have less meaning in

Words have less meaning in the heat of the moment, than in an official statement or something that is written down and thought out. 

Good evening 24

You are partially correct. Words do have less meaning when coming from a liberal's mouth.

Jesus Loves You so much He died for you

→ coco

I can't believe enak is now defending Joe Wilson.

It's as though he's tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

This is what happens in

This is what happens in tennis, players yell and argue at the umpires, though Serena admits she went to far and has apologized. Joe Wilson shouted out at the president during a joint session of congress, which is not a routine thing to do. 

24

Kinda like a Minority Leader of the Senate calling President Bush a liar and a loser.Or a former VP calling President Bush a traitor.

hardcore tennis fan here, saw the whole thing...

I was stunned and outraged by what I saw. 

race: oriental-looking line judge makes the call.

outbursts: never have I seen a player actually threaten the safety of an official. I lived through the McEnroe bad-boy era. Even he knew better than to pull something like that.

Initial player reaction: Comes out ten minutes after the incident and basically acts like nothing unusual had happened. Level of intensity of apologies increases as fines are imposed.

USTA: Last I read, she could be banned. These people don't mess around. I don't see them giving in to political pressure.

My take: Looked like she didn't want to lose the old fashioned way, because she was getting basically stomped by the mommy- come-back-story of the event. She didn't want to lose fair and square. She got pissed and didn't want to play any more. I think she took a dive.

"She didn't want to lose fair and square"

the first thing that I thought of was Tyson biting Evander's ear - same reasoning

I was stunned and outraged

I was stunned and outraged by what I saw.  

I was stunned by both the call and the reaction.

race: oriental-looking line judge makes the call.

A call I've never seen made before under like circumstances [and I've been an avid tennis fan and have watched thousands of matches over the past fifty years.]  What in heaven's name does race have to do with it...Serena or the line judge's?

outbursts: never have I seen a player actually threaten the safety of an official. I lived through the McEnroe bad-boy era. Even he knew better than to pull something like that.

The outburst was shocking and inexcusable.  But I believe Williams said something like " I wish I could take this ball ...or, "I'd like to thake this ball.."  Do you honestly think the umpire's physical safety was imperiled?

Initial player reaction: Comes out ten minutes after the incident and basically acts like nothing unusual had happened. Level of intensity of apologies increases as fines are imposed.

Agreed.  She acted far too casually about the incident in the post-match press conference.  Of the other hand she could have continued to rail about the call [she didn't], or blown off the media entirely.

USTA: Last I read, she could be banned. These people don't mess around. I don't see them giving in to political pressure.

You mean imposing a life-time ban against Williams?  Is that what you favor? Absurd.  However, as I said in an earlier post, I agree with Mary Carillo that the penalty should be something more harsh than a measley 10k fine.

My take: Looked like she didn't want to lose the old fashioned way, because she was getting basically stomped by the mommy- come-back-story of the event. She didn't want to lose fair and square. She got pissed and didn't want to play any more. I think she took a dive.

Nonsense.  Yes, she was being beaten by Clisters.  Say what you will about the Williams sisters, but, they always give 100%.  Accusing Serena of taking a dive is both laughable and insulting.

This isn't the first time one of the Williams sisters has been dealt a bad break in the finals or semi-finals of majors.  Venus at Wimbledon...Serena in the finals against Justine Henin at the French.  I'm not implying a racial component--just that they were victimized by official blunders.  This was another one.

Jer

Jer

To much violence in that sport. I will stick with hockey. I seen the video and she lost her temper. Over the years many have. The only thing is threatening a official is a no no in any sport. She should face a suspension. Just like any other sport.

It's Outrageous

For a liberal to expect an individual to exhibit even the smallest modecum of self-control in ANY situation is absolutely UNTHINKABLE.  Unless you're a known Conservative, then, you're derrided for not having self-control by the liberal gang.

The liberal mindset holds a queer and convoluted set of  "values".

Race card in sports

What is with the race card being played up in sports? This tennis thing, Michael Vick returning to NFL, many situations in the NBA, enough already! I'm getting sick and tired of the race card.

the race card always worked very well

like when the black NBA player choked his white coach, received a well-deserved severe penalty which was unfairly reduced once he (and Jesse and Al etc) portrayed the player as a victim of racism

happens in court rooms all the time, too (and of course the claim is that blacks are unfairly targeted by the justice system, like the 'Jena 6' thugs)

So much for "profesional" sports.

There's far too many of these types of outburst in "professional' sports.  someone needs to remind sports players that "professionalism" doesn't just mean it's your profession.  It also means you're supposed to act in a professional manner. 

You're a public figure, playing in a public venue.  Why is it so hard to perform in a professional manner? In other words, in a manner that brings honor and civility to your sport?  You're a professional, so act like a professional and not like a child!

The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States.
The US Constitution

Unless you're a fetus.
The US Supreme Court

KOS is calling Ms. Williams "Ghetto"?

 Is that what I'm seeing here? They're saying she doesn't scream "country club" and justify her behavior due to her background? What background are they insinuating, where it's "okay" to rant like a classless illiterate? 

Sounds to me like they're complaing of "upper crust" culture not accepting "ghetto" boorishness.

 Personally, I think it's the 'roids, or whatever high end "undetectable" or not-as-yet-banned performance enhancer causing these looses of control among "professional" ball smackers. 

 

WWW.GS2AC.COM. 2nd Amendment Grass Roots Action in the Bay Area, CA. We're not all "Breakfast Cereal" folks here! :)