Newsweek Writer Claims Income Inequality to Blame for Americans Failing Citizenship Test
Appearing on Tuesday's CBS Early Show, Newsweek senior writer Andrew Romano touted a survey in the magazine's latest issue showing that 38% of Americans failed the U.S. citizenship test and claimed to know the cause: "One of the big ones is income inequality in the United States. We're one of the most in-equal societies in the developed world."
Romano argued to co-host Erica Hill: "When people don't have a lot of money, there's a difficulty getting a good education, there's a lack of opportunity and a lack of knowledge. That's one of the reasons why we don't do as well as northern European countries, sometimes on these surveys." Hill observed: "So it's really a question of access." Romano replied: "It is. It's a big problem."
While everyone can agree that American citizens not knowing basic facts like who the Vice President of the United States is or who the U.S. fought during the Cold War are very troubling, blaming free-market capitalism for the failure is quite a leap.
In addition to going after income inequality, the Newsweek article also managed to squeeze in a defense of public broadcasting: "Another hitch is our reliance on market-driven programming rather than public broadcasting, which, according to the EJC [European Journal of Communication] study, 'devotes more attention to public affairs and international news, and fosters greater knowledge in these areas.'"
Apparently, British Masterpiece Theater on PBS can teach so much about American civics.
Here is a full transcript of the March 22 Early Show segment with Romano:
7:30AM ET
ERICA HILL: Before immigrants can become U.S. citizens, they have to pass an official test. Recently Newsweek magazine gave that same test to 1,000 Americans. Just 62% passed. 29% of respondents didn't know the name of the Vice President. It's Joe Biden, by the way. 73% had no idea what the U.S. was fighting against during the Cold War. Newsweek senior writer Andrew Romano joins us now, good to have you with us.
[ON-SCREEN HEADLINE: Put to the Test; Newsweek: 38% of Americans Failed Citizenship Test]
That one was one that surprised me, that people didn't know what the U.S. was fighting against during the Cold War. The answer is communism.
ANDREW ROMANO: Right.
HILL: Did that surprise you as an answer?
ROMANO: It was very surprising. I mean, most people who were responding to the survey were probably alive during the Cold War, before the fall of communism, of communist Russia. And so it was very surprising that they didn't know that.
HILL: It can be a tough test. A lot of the stuff you learn in grade school or even in highschool maybe you forget. But the Vice President, someone who's out there in the news a lot, that many people who didn't know his name. How did that sit with you guys? Is that what you expected?
ROMANO: It's not what I expected. It's kind of amazing, you know, current events can be kind of difficult to keep track of, but he is the second highest ranking elected official in the government. And so the fact that 29% of voters didn't know that – what his name was is amazing.
HILL: I just want to tick off a few of the other ones that surprised some of the folks here at the Early Show. Martin Luther King, someone who, too, you get a day off for, so, you know, this is another name that's out there. 70 – 23% rather – did not know what Martin Luther King did. Of course fought for civil rights. Also, a third didn't know when the Declaration of Independence was adopted. That would be July 4th, 1776.
ROMANO: Right. Exactly correct. And the fact that we get days off for both of those things is sort of surprising that people are not sure what it is.
HILL: What do you equate this to? This – I don't know if it's a lack of knowledge – are we just not remembering things? But what do you, when you look at these results, is there one thing that you can point to that says here's why we're not doing so well on this test?
ROMANO: Yeah, there are a couple reasons when you talk to experts. One of the big ones is income inequality in the United States. We're one of the most in-equal societies in the developed world. And when people don't have a lot of money, there's a difficulty getting a good education, there's a lack of opportunity and a lack of knowledge. That's one of the reasons why we don't do as well as northern European countries, sometimes on these surveys.
HILL: So it's really a question of access.
ROMANO: It is. It's a big problem. There's also – we also have a very complicated system of government, much more complicated than some of these European countries. You have elections constantly for every imaginable office, you've got overlapping federal and state bureaucracies and people kind of give up, they can't their head around the whole thing.
HILL: You point out in your article this isn't really a problem of – or an issue, rather, of stupidity, it's more an issue of ignorance.
ROMANO: That's exactly correct. There's a thing called deliberative polling that a professor at Stanford does. And he gets people together in the room, polls them blind on a big issue, they have their opinions, they have their differences, but then they're confronted with the facts and they're forced to come up with a policy response to it. And almost every time they come up with a rational reasonable policy response. So again, it's not stupidity, it's just a lack of knowledge about some of the facts on these issues.
HILL: Well this could be a good reason for us to maybe read up a little bit more.
ROMANO: Yeah.
HILL: It's in the current issue of Newsweek. Andrew, thanks.
ROMANO: Thank you.
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Comments
Are they pretty much
Submitted by JeffC... on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 11:48am.
Are they pretty much admitting that public schools are crap?Inequality my butt
Submitted by ricklail on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 11:52am.
It proves to me that the indoctrination in the government schools is working. If you can keep people stoooopid they are much easier to control.
Maybe people are ignorant
Submitted by GrannyGrump42 on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 11:52am.
Maybe people are ignorant because the teachers' unions are in charge of education.Amen to that. The teachers,
Submitted by djm159 on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 12:43pm.
Amen to that. The teachers, thanks to the democrat controlled union thugs, are indoctrinating to the DNC and liberal thought and not to educating the children. We saw the result of indoctrination during the last election. How else can you explain the election of a Marxist to the office of President of the United States? Bust the union, take away tenure and abolish one-sided politics being taught in the schools. Get rid of the unions and we have our children back, and they will be educated.Precisely.
Submitted by johnsonl on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 3:04pm.
Our children fon't know what being an American is because the liberals have taken over our educationasl system. If they did, we wouldn't have this idiot running our country. Break the unions, abolish tenure!It seeMs to me
Submitted by misterbee241 on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 11:56am.
It seems to me rich or poor you can remember facts IF you are taught them.Let's make everyone equally poor! That'll solve it!
Submitted by Red Jeep on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 12:00pm.
"One of the big ones is income inequality in the United States. We're one of the most in-equal societies in the developed world." Must have income equality!"That's one of the reasons why we don't do as well as northern European countries..." Where they are all equally poor? So Europeans do better on our citizenship tests than our citizens? Or their country's citizenship tests?
"...we also have a very complicated system of government, much more complicated than some of these European countries. You have elections constantly for every imaginable office...and people kind of give up, they can't their head around the whole thing." YEAH. Kings and Dictators are so much simpler.
"...this isn't really a problem of ...stupidity, it's more an issue of ignorance." OK if that floats your boat.
Newsweek, all the psychobabble that they can come up with.
Yes... YES THEY ARE!!!! Admitting that and worse........
Submitted by OldJarhead77 on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 12:02pm.
This has nothing to do with money, as a eduactor I can tell you were the problem lies, at least for the children of immigrants..... ready..... ITS THE PARENTS! If the parents don't speak English and don't encourage their children to speak English how can teachers (who teach in english) expect to be able to teach them. However when it comes to ADULT IMMIGRANTS the root of the problem, is NOT MONEY... ITS IGNORANCE! IF they were not taught anything in their country of orgin how can you expect them to magically have the knowledge once they land on our shores?.... the answer is YOU CAN"T throwing money at people will not make them smarter. Teach Immigrants ENGLISH..... FIRST then they can learn but this has nothing to do with MONEY!!! This is another example of the "Gimme class" beliefs: I don't have what you have so you have to give me yours because its not fair that you have what I don't have. This is a true believer in "WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION" going about his masters (Obama) business.Jarhead, I would guess most
Submitted by MikeB on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 10:01pm.
Jarhead, I would guess most of the LEGAL immigrants, who come here with the intention of becoming citizens, make a concerted effort to learn English, and teach their children about their new homeland. I would also point out that many of our natural born citizens could not pass the same citizenship test that the legal immigrants pass to gain citizenship. I think that there needs to be a Constitutional Amendment that unless a natural born citizen can pass that test, that citizen not be allowed to vote. I can guarantee that American History and Civics would once again be taught in our schools, until the Commucrats dumb down the citizenship test so that even our kids could pass it.What A Waste Of Time
Submitted by Bourbeau on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 12:02pm.
Is this guy serious. Any moron knows, if you watch Jay Leno or David Letterman, they periodically pull off the same survey on a lesser scale, and the results are the same. So what? Here's the key questiosn: (1) Who were the 1,000 people selected; (2) How did you select them? and (3) Did he take the test and pass?It's the public school's fault
Submitted by c5then on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 12:04pm.
The vast majority of public schools don't teach basic American history and civics anymore. They have no problems teaching gay tollerance and other liberal ideas like everybody gets to be special at some point in the school year...But they can't seem to bring themselves to teach the basics like reading, math, history, problem solving, etc.Madison and Jefferson and Franklin built a Republic - Roberts killed it!
Also students today cannot write cursively and...
Submitted by Red Jeep on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 12:09pm.
...tell time from a clock with 12 numbers and 2 arms, a short arm and a long arm or a short pointer and a long pointer..And boy,
Submitted by HockeyKid on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 1:38pm.
throw that third pointer in there--the fast-moving one--and their ADD kicks in so bad they're just completely lost."Beauty is only skin deep, but liberal's to the bone." - me
Bingo!
Submitted by Red Jeep on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 6:39pm.
Bingo!"When people don't have a lot
Submitted by Beukeboom on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 12:10pm.
"When people don't have a lot of money, there's a difficulty getting a good education"
FACT: The federal government has pumped in more and more money into public education with the promise of improving the quality of education yet all reputable studies show that no significant increase in education quality has occurred in all forms of measurement.
---
Since a free, public education is open to all (including apparently non-U.S. citizens) as qualified as a right, money, or rather lack thereof on a personal level, has no bearing on the quality of education. The questions presented on the citizenship test cover things that should be taught during the public education years.
I also noted how Romano qualified his claim by citing unnamed "experts" of which he didn't describe what sort of experts they were. This raises red flags for me.
His conclusions are presented with no legitimate, documented evidence thus what he claimed can only be reasonably take as being his opinion only and as such appears to be a non sequitur since the amount of money (income) one has does not have a bearing on public education.
I'd lay you odds that home
Submitted by MikeB on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 10:05pm.
I'd lay you odds that home schooled children, upon whom a lot less money is spent, can do a lot better on tests for math skills, reading comprehension, history, civics, English compostition, etc. Indeed, it's not the amount of money spent per pupil; it is how interested the parents are in their kids' education.
He just proved it's not true...!
Submitted by wizardjr on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 12:14pm.
This assclown is obviously not part of the economic underclass, yet he spews ignorant silliness. QED his theory is disproved.
I always have this question for libtards and lazy-assed ghetto snipes - "What was the name of the man with the gun in your kitchen?" I then get blank stares and, "Huh!" to which I have to elaborate with, "What was the name of the guy with the gun in your kitchen that threatened to shoot you if you did homework or read a book from the library?"
That's always followed with much spluttering and attempts to change the subject. Surprise. Not.
There are numerous studies and comparisons that totally disprove the theory that more money equals better educational results. It mostly hinges on the parents riding herd on the brats to keep them working on their education. It's cultural, not economic.... never has been.
Newsweek the One Dollar Corporation
Submitted by Avitar on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 12:27pm.
When I read this article I was most struck by the reporter not knowing that America's citizenship knowledge problem had risen with immigration first beginning about 1890 before then rising again after the Ted Kennedy immigration "reforms" of the 1960's. The complaints of contemporaries’ about the decline of knowledge rose among Collages about high school graduates with the introduction of the teacher training degrees at the beginning of the twentieth century. In the nineteenth century Americans were the best educated population on earth. The most ignorant populations are now the immigrant rich east and west coasts
Despite his lack of knowledge Romano is right that the well-off have an advantage in the citizenship knowledge. The higher income families buy books for their kids and send them to private schools The poor make do with the awful, politically correct, public school text books Even Newsweek should be able to do something about that. How about Newsweek having some interns this summer create a list of the best text books ever written? Except for modern technology and current events most should be in the public domain and accessible via an e-reader to this generation regardless of income.
Lack of American History Teaching is the Problem...
Submitted by gruyere cheese on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 12:33pm.
It is not the lack of money or access to it that is the problem. In foreign countries learning about the history and politics of that country is part of the educational curriculum. In the US it is not a mandatory subject, I guess because of the concentration of liberals in the public schools. As far as immigrants having to take the Citizenship Test, they can take it in their native language and so, taking the test in English is secondary. This interview was a waste or advertisers air time.It Goes To Show You
Submitted by Bourbeau on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 12:53pm.
After the US govement, states, and cities have spent trillions of dollars on education, more then on any other area, we end up with less then satisfactory results. Hence, it's not the amount of money you spend on education, it's what you spend it on. If you want to spend it on bureaucracies in DC, on unions thru-out the large cites; on protection for incompetent teachers; on poorly constructed curriculum and testing programs, this is what you get. Our failure is not because of the students, it's because of the people overseeing our education who routinely fail the system and are not held accountable. Maybe, just maybe, one of these dim bulbs will go to Japan, will go to Germany, will go to India, and find out how they educate their students; what makes them successful (those allowed to learn that is) and bring back some of their ideas rather then argue about whether or no you can have Anne Frank, or Huckleberry Finn in your stupid library.Hold Up!
Submitted by Ashrak on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 1:04pm.
Now just who in this society is fixated on money?
It's kind of like the race issue isn't it?
Most often times, the one who smelt it dealt it.
I have been poor almost all of my life. Heck, I am poor now. But you know what? That has absolutely nothing to do with learning. In fact, I did the best learning, on my own, while I was the poorest I have ever been. I most certainly learned more after I got out of public school than I learned while within it, and that is most especially true regarding civics.
The problem here isn't money and it isn't even "access". It is curriculum itself alongside a lack of a desire to learn it.
Teachers have to teach kids to put condoms on bananas and how to tolerate gayness. They spend their minutes punishing the bullied just like the bullies as if there is no difference between fighting and fighting back. They spend untold hours pushing democracy and ignore the fact we live in a Republic. They ram collectivism down kids throats and shun individual responsibility and accountability. They preach global warming and recycling, instead inalienable rights and mathematics.
They claim education is the key, but as is best demonstrated in the arena of firearms, they themselves just ban them from daily life so that no education can take place. Indeed, they place the fear card in place of true, actuality based, education.
The Communist element declared they would go after schools and they did so. They succeeded. Like pedophiles, they are to be shunned as the monsters they are.
Wake up America. Enough is Enough.
Obama had a great education
Submitted by jkwtrading on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 1:06pm.
Obama had a great education and income and he fails the citizen test.Newswek just
Submitted by Tiger on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 1:13pm.
condemned public education in this country? But I'll bet they oppose Scott Walker.Don't Underestimate Social Class
Submitted by Justin Crowe on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 1:25pm.
The notion that social class does not affect education and educational attainment is nonsense. In fact, social class affects our access to many things, including education. The vast majority of students in private and elite schools are from the upper classes. Those in the poorer lower classes are hardly represented in such schools precisely because of a lack of access, and that lack is directly related to income and social class. The effects of social class simply snowball. Schools in poorer neighborhoods under perform compared to those is wealthier neighborhoods. How would you explain that without turning to social class? It has long been determined that children in the lower social classes are not any lazier, nor are their IQs any lower. Thus, we have to look to other factors, like social class, to explain this inequity. The lower classes are often clustered in poorer communities and neighborhoods. In such communities houses tend to be of a much lower value, thus lowering the tax base, which impacts the amount of money filtered into the school system. This results in fewer resources for such schools and less money to attract better skilled and qualified teachers. In situations of crushing poverty, kids often have to work as they can to help support the family. Thus, instead of having the time to do homework in the evening, many kids find themselves running brooms down a grocery store isles. When you are struggling to survive on a daily basis, very rarely do you have the time, or even the luxury, to go into the library and pull Huck Finn from the shelf. So, because homework has now been neglected in order to help feel the family, the grade point average has dropped, thus blocking access to college, and the snowball effect rolls on and on. You also need to understand that poverty breeds a sense of hopelessness. When you have internalized that sense of hopelessness, it then becomes very difficult to do the "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" kind of things, even if one were to assume that everybody has equal access to the resources to do such a thing (which they don't).Then please explain
Submitted by HockeyKid on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 1:44pm.
Marva Collins' success as an educator in inner-city Chicago.
I'll wait while you go get educated.
"Beauty is only skin deep, but liberal's to the bone." - me
Easy
Submitted by Justin Crowe on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 1:47pm.
Exceptional individuals and examples (and the anecdotal evidence many readers of this forum have provided) do not indicate a trend. In fact, such examples often stand out precisely because they are exceptional.In other words,
Submitted by HockeyKid on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 1:57pm.
Ms. Collins' outstanding success with the vast majority of students at her school has no place in your socialist explanation of Why Johnny Can't Read, so you dismiss it out of hand.
Any idea how many schools, public and private, across the country have enjoyed similar success based on Ms. Collins theories--regardless of socio-economic class? I thought not.
Your original statement and your flippant answer represent an ignorant opinion--one shared by far too many "educators" in America today. It's too bad you're not willing to look at reality and find out the truth.
"Beauty is only skin deep, but liberal's to the bone." - me
How many schools have had
Submitted by dr2b on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 2:07pm.
How many schools have had success regardless of socio-economic class?Do yourself some research,
Submitted by HockeyKid on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 2:21pm.
Grasshopper. I've given you several clues to get you started."Beauty is only skin deep, but liberal's to the bone." - me
I did.. "This review's
Submitted by dr2b on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 2:37pm.
I did.. "This review's overall finding,therefore, suggests that parents' location in the socioeconomic structure has a strong impact on the students' academic achievement. Family SES sets the stage for students' academic performance both by directly providing resources in school (Coleman, 1988). Family SES also helps to determine the kind of school and classroom environment to which the student has access (Reynolds & Walberg, 1992a). Past research that compared low-SES schools with higher-SES schools found several important differences in terms of instructional arrangements, materials, teacher experience, and teacher-student ratio." from a meta-analysis of academic achievement by Sirin in 2005. Clearly socioeconomic class does have a role which is implied by saying the results of the quiz showed a income gap being a factorWah Wah Wah
Submitted by dennyf51 on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 1:55pm.
Bu$$sh@t. The crushing poverty and wah wah of your response goes back to communities that "don't f---ing care". That's right, as was stated earlier, it's the parents. It's the neighborhood that doesn't want to become american,(learn english, become a citizen, meld into the society), it's the neighborhoods where kids learn it's easier to sell drugs than it is to finish school and get a job. The problem will continue to spiral down as long as we are a politically correct society that keep bending over backwards for every whiney=a$$ed liberal cause, nationality and lazy group of government check loving whitey haters. Here we have the first black president, and I haven't heard him do anything to make the black community more apt to take his high road to personal fulfillment, they're wanting to know more than ever, Hey Barack, where's mine. What you got for me. Vietnamese, Indian, Japanese, Russian and many other nationalities have struggled to acclamate to u.s. society, eventually melded and thrived in the u.s. That was when it was expected of people to americanize, this IS America, isn't it. Now we have to press one for English. Billions on education, young smart teachers given opportunities if they'll work in the most difficult educational venues to erase their college debt, people who truly want to help, but the bottom line is if you won't help yourself, you probably can't be helped. When we start taking parents to court if they don't get their kids to school and tell them to listen to teachers, regain respect for authority and get rid of these petty as$ed lawsuits, and give teachers back the ability to put fear in the eyes of their students if they don't obey, then we'll continue to head for the sewer. That my friends is what I see as the problem.I said social class, not race
Submitted by Justin Crowe on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 2:04pm.
First, my post was about the effects of social class, not race. Social class cuts across racial boundaries and affects Caucasians in addition to other racial groups. However, since you bring race into the equation, it is worth pointing out that race certainly magnifies the effects of social class. Blacks in America suffer from a double oppression, that of poverty and that of race, thus making it that much harder to dig out of the hole. Consider this for a moment. Caucasian Americans have had four hundred years in which to attain the level of culture and wealth that many of us enjoy. Four hundred years in which we have had the advantage of having the freedom of determining our own destinies. Blacks in America did not get that same level of freedom until the 1960s. Why is it, then, that you expect Blacks to attain the same level of wealth and culture in the space of a single generation when it took the rest of America hundreds of years to do it? And Eastern Europeans and the Irish, though they had it bad at times, never suffered from hundreds of years of slavery in America.Wow
Submitted by HockeyKid on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 2:10pm.
You are mind-numbingly ignorant. Please take your white guilt elsewhere. DKos or HuffPo would welcome you with open arms, I'm sure.
If you're going to stick around here, please pick up a few books other than Howard Zinn and Bill Ayers.
"Beauty is only skin deep, but liberal's to the bone." - me
Weak
Submitted by Justin Crowe on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 2:31pm.
Why do you resort to insults instead of dealing with the argument? Is it because you can't deal with the argument and thus have no better response?research clearly stands
Submitted by dr2b on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 2:43pm.
research clearly stands behind what you said. most of the comments here though imply not much is thought of sociology as a social sciencenot really*
Submitted by cajun2 on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 3:02pm.
But typical of lefty apologists, you leave out important elements. It isn't about race but it is about culture. There are millions more poor and disadvantaged whites in this country than blacks but that doesnt fit well with your arguement. There are disapportioned percentage of poor among blacks than whites is a given.
Entitlements destroy incentives. Children fighting on their own to get onto the school bus while mom is drunk. Scared to get off the bus in the afternoon cause mom is "entertaining" again. Parent/teacher night and no one shows up at the schools in poor neighborhoods. You tell a child every day they are not the same as others, therefore, they get special priveleges, expectations are lowered and guess what. Those children will "live up" to those lowered expectations.
You talk about generations of slavery and compare the US education to european countries. Europe and other continents are thousands of years older than the US. We became the greatest country in the world within 300 years. Of course there have been areas needing correction. But if liberals continue to distract from the real problems simply because they think they have this all in one solution is typical of elitist european snobbery. Look where they are now.
"There are millions more poor
Submitted by dr2b on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 3:07pm.
"There are millions more poor and disadvantaged whites in this country than blacks but that doesnt fit well with your arguement. There are disapportioned percentage of poor among blacks than whites is a given. " I just stated that only accounting for whites then the correlation is even STRONGER that family SES affects academic achievement. I said nothing about slavery or about entitlements. I am not defending anything except the found research that SES affects academic achievementSocial economic status
Submitted by dennyf51 on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 4:11pm.
And what I said is SES is CREATED by the communities of people that have not and will not make the effort necessary to change thier status, including whites. The asian communities came from poverty and in some cases indentured servitude and escaped to the u.s. less than 60 years ago for jJapanese and 40 years ago for thai and Vietnamese, And which students are leading the educational ranks in American schools, those students whose families and cultures breed a strong family core, a strong sense of culture and a need to show their families they can and will achieve at the highest levels. Family values and respect for authority, a main ingredient in SES.Exactly
Submitted by Blonde on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 4:58pm.
When you look at the various immigrant groups you can really see the flaws in the "poor black" argument.
Now that the drug culture has taken over various states of Mexico, we're seeing the exportation of gang mentality (hmmm....gangs in urban settings probably deserve their own subset in this discussion), rather than the traditional religious, family based cultural traditions of most latin cultures.
And as Cajun so correctly pointed out, this whole government entitlement nonsense merely perpetuates the grinding cycle of non-values and poverty.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Also, the meta analysis I
Submitted by dr2b on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 2:50pm.
Also, the meta analysis I cited earlier actually states that socioeconomic class is a greater predictor of academic achievement in whites than minorities, so this isn't an anyway trying to pander towards minorities and giving excusesLet me as an Educator take your diatribe apart......
Submitted by OldJarhead77 on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 4:27pm.
Yes social class CAN effect how a student learns, it does cut across racial lines BUT!!!! that is dependent on two separate factors, First the parent and second the student. Let me elaborate my point. IF the PARENT wants the child to do well in school then they will put forth the EFFORT to do just that. The parent will work with that student and SACRIFICE time and effort to help them in School. REMEMBER we are talking about the POOR here in FREE PUBLIC SCHOOL! (YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!) so first things first, the PARENTS are RESPONSIBLE for them. Second is the Student, the student must be willing to put forth EFFORT to attend class sudy take the hard courses and strive for excellence, When the PARENTS are deadbeats on education the Children are too! I had a student that was constantly disruptive I called the parents in and in a meeting with them, a Assistant Principal and myself I had a parent look me in the face and tell me this "When (students name) is here hes your responsibility.. its not my fault he won't behave" More to come this is just part ONE!Who knew....
Submitted by ckc1227 on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 5:15pm.
there were 400 year old Americans running around?Justin Crowe
Submitted by bassndude on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 2:48pm.
Then please explain to me the reason for bussing. Bussing students from the poor side of town to the wealthy white side of town was supposed to cure the social and economic ills of education. But what I witnessed was those who were bussed to the better schools only drug the school down to the level of the school they left. There was no "neighborhood pride" nor school pride. They destroyed the schools. Kicked holes in the walls, broke the windows and desks just to mention a few. Then the lazy, non disciplining parent raised cane when the child was disciplined at the school. Grade averages fell as the welfare parents continued to spout off about racists.
In other words, if you raise a generation of kids on welfare, and instill in them that their best aspirations are simply to get knocked up at 15 and draw welfare, there is no amount of anything anyone can do to change that parental attitude that has been the example from birth. That's what they know.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal/troll!!
Busing
Submitted by Justin Crowe on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 2:52pm.
Busing students is like putting a band-aid over a gaping wound. It simply does not address the underlying structural issues. Sending students to a wealthy school does not magically cure their poverty.Just a point, wealthy schools
Submitted by bassndude on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 3:06pm.
Just a point, wealthy schools will not cure a life time of parental neglect. Kids copy parents behavior, hence young unwed mothers, promiscuous sex, (after all,mom has it all the time) and encouragement to continue to milk the welfare teat, provided of course, it is white money they get.
And bussing did nothing for education, except destroy the "want" to learn. Now we have the dumb down education, teach to the test, and the kids learn nothing at all. And they can't pass a simple citizenship test.
Pathetic. Neither money nor buildings nor new computers will cure this. It takes discipline from parents and teachers, and the willingness to enforce such.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal/troll!!
BS.
Submitted by SickofLibs on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 2:51pm.
Inner city schools have less money because of the neighborhood's tax base? Bull. The worst schools ALWAYS have the highest cost per pupil, while having the lowest graduation rates and worst standardized test scores.
PS: using empty phrases "it has long been determined..." isn't going to cut it around here.
Throwing money at a school
Submitted by dr2b on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 2:58pm.
Throwing money at a school doesn't affect the students' family socioeconomic status which has a medium to strong correlation to academic achievement... The research is there showing it matters what your income level is...Read my post.
Submitted by SickofLibs on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 3:05pm.
I called him on his statement that a smaller tax local base impacts the amount of money filtered into a given school system. That is not true.
I said nothing about socioeconomics.
Fair enough, since it wasn't
Submitted by dr2b on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 3:11pm.
Fair enough, since it wasn't a direct reply I didn't see his whole thing about tax base and how its a rebuttal. What you said is definitely true. I think he is trying to make the point that not all poor or rural areas have the benefit of cities/states throwing money at them like DC or NY and they lack resources.dr2b, your reading
Submitted by bassndude on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 3:08pm.
dr2b, your reading comprehension is not real good. What kind of dr do you plan 2 b? I want to be sure to avoid you.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal/troll!!
whats the common saying i
Submitted by dr2b on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 3:14pm.
whats the common saying i always see? When you can't win an argument you resort to ad hominem attacks? Please forgive me not knowing what he was referring to many posts down and not under a direct reply to get the full context right away. It isn't a reflection of reading comprehension.What ad hominem attack? I
Submitted by bassndude on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 4:04pm.
What ad hominem attack? I just made a simple observation based on the evidence, and came to a conclusion.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal/troll!!
Paging Dr. Touchy... Dr. Mallomar Touchy
Submitted by SickofLibs on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 4:15pm.
Sheesh.Bass:
Submitted by SickofLibs on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 5:56pm.
that a comment on the Doctor, not you, BTW.EVERYONE HAS ACCESS TO PUBLIC SCHOOL
Submitted by OldJarhead77 on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 4:31pm.
YOUR POINT IS MOOT!THE KIDS AREN'T ANY LAZIER?... REALLY?...
Submitted by OldJarhead77 on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 4:42pm.
Then you tell me why today the kids want everything now without raising a finger to get it! they EXPECT a lap top and an IPOD? (If you believe Jesse Jackson Jr.) He says that they deserve it. REALLY? And as to your arguement about being able to pull Huck Finn or any Twain off a library shelf..... they could IF THEY WOULD GO TO THE LIBRARY!!!!! But they would rather take the cliff notes off of the school computer put their Ipod EAR BUDS in and shut you out. Tell you what if we took everyones ability to listen to an IPOD or use a cell phone away when they enter the school building I am reading reseach right now that says doing that would provide a better environment for students than throwing cash at districts that don't perform anyway. BOTTOM LINE PARENTS need to take RESPONSIBILTY! STUDENTS need to take RESPONSIBILITY! And finally TEACHERS need to take RESPONSIBILITY. Bad teachers need to go, Unions should not protect them and good teachers should be rewarded.Yes Really
Submitted by Justin Crowe on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 5:05pm.
The funny thing is, your complaints have been made by every generation of parents in modern history. There is an amazing tendency for people in every generation to view society as heading down the wrong road, and that things were better in some golden aged "yesteryear." At one time people vehemently argued that the telegraph (of all things) was going to mark the corruption of society. Then it became jazz, then rock 'n roll, and now, I guess it is the iPod. I would suggest that it is not children that change, rather it is our perspective on the world that changes as we grow older. Essentially, I don't think kids are that different than they were 20, 30, or 40 years ago.Kids were not...
Submitted by bassndude on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 5:36pm.
However, with the benefit of age and experience, we older kids can see the damage being done. It can be witnessed if you just ask a 16 year old to read a book. Even those in the media complain about the way the Constitution is written. Why, such big words and all. And in fact, it was written so that the commonly educated farmer could understand it. Now you say kids are not much different. That in and of its self may be absolutely true. But what is different is the education. In other words, a person with a 6th grade education then, had a better education than our high school graduates have today.
But your right, kids while they are kids will do a little as they can get away with, unless society and parents instill values in them. At this point in time the only value they have is an entitlement value.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal/troll!!
You obviously don't have children yet.
Submitted by SickofLibs on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 5:26pm.
Today's teenagers are NOTHING like those of 40 years ago. Here's just a few generalizations about "today's child"... you may see yourself in some of these, BTW:
1) Built-in sense of entitlement.
2) Spend little to no time in meatspace.
3) Have no desire to leave Mommy and Daddy's house. (Congress recently redefined "kid" as anyone up to 26 years old.)
4) Astounding illiterate.
5) Politically ignorant except when instructed to Rock The Vote.
6) Expect a high-paying job upon graduation and whine when it doesn't happen immediately.
7) Marry much later.
Once again, these are generalizations.
I think you may owe The Vet some royalty $$ there, SoL
Submitted by Blonde on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 5:49pm.
He's got a patent pending on "meatspace".
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
No need, B - we have a joint checking account,
Submitted by SickofLibs on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 5:53pm.
AND a reciprocal agreement.
just ask him!
Hey, how do I get in on that?
Submitted by Blonde on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 6:17pm.
I have a couple of trademarked sayings, too! <said in a Paul Shanklin Bamster voice, pleadingly>.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
B:
Submitted by SickofLibs on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 6:23pm.
Well, I DID use 'feckless' yesterday, but with the proper attribution.
;)
"Social class" has nothing to do with it.
Submitted by CobraMan on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 8:35pm.
"Social class" has nothing to do with it, especially not since the Department of Education was formed and laws were created that ALL children MUST attend the federally approved schools which teach federal approved curriculum (even homeschooling students must learn federally approved curriculum) regardless of "social class" standings. The "poor" schools teach the same curriculum that the "rich' schools do, in general education centers, commonly called "public school," and most "rich" people attended the same schools and received the same education as the "poor" people.
"Social class" had nothing to do with how successful someone may or may not be, so something else must be at play here. Face it, there really are no "social class" distinctions left here in America, other than imagined ones. Black, white, rich, poor, all have access to the same levels of education and the same opportunity at advancement as every other demographic group imaginable. The only difference left are all INDIVIDUAL differences, and no amount of social engineering will erase individual difference like inherent abilities and talents. It is these individual differences that these type of "polls" are "studying" and "highlighting."
The polls themselves query a thousand different individuals and, foolishly, tries to compare each to the other, as if we are exactly alike in out abilities and our disabilities. Well, people aren't clones, so individuality is the deciding factor in what makes people different from each other. All other differences, like gender, race, and the like, are no longer applicable, and haven't been since the Industrial revolution started. When the dumbest person in the world can make as much as an assembler as the smartest person imaginable would earn doing the exact same job, no matter their gender or race, then "social class" no longer exists.
This "poll" is a classic example of individuality and the lack of "social class" distinctions here in America. If 38 percent of the people polled can't remember who the VP is after months of continuous TV coverage and personal discussions between themselves and others just a little more than a year ago, for example, then that indicates that 38 percent of the population doesn't have the same memory recall abilities as the rest of the country, and that's ALL it indicates! As it is highly unlikely that 38 percent of the people never knew who was the VP when he first took office, it is likely that they just don't REMEMBER. That's an individual, personal problem, not a social one.
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.
CobraMan,
Submitted by Agnostic on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 8:54pm.
While I agree with your post in spirit the reality is that there is an equal opportunity to education by all but social/economic pressures result in people having to make different choices due to the social or economic standing of the family unit. I'm not talking about the kid who drops out to join a gang nor the ones who bend to mere peer pressure but those whose personal choices are limited by because of the lack of a family unit, lack of money or simply making the choice between the 'responsible' or the 'risk' when there is no safety net like those afforded to most families.
Growing up very, very poor (sort of) and frequently living in neighborhoods that were predominately made up of minorities I've seen a young man give up opportunities to go to college to work two jobs to take care of their parents. Yes, the parents were useless and should be ashamed but should we, as a society, blame that kid for doing what was considered the responsible thing to do at the time? I've seen things like this over and over again, usually in single parent homes, from intelligent people who start years behind because they had to make a choice that many in the middle class and none of the upper class ever have to make.
This is not class envy as I am a big supporter of greater income gaps but to deny that there is no difference in the classes or there are no classes is just not true. Think of it as risk/reward. The risk of going to college or leaving for a better opportunity is so much greater when you don't have family or security. The risk at some point out weighs the potential reward. Many make it because some times the risk pans out but for many, many others the risk is never taken or worse the risk is taken, fails and there is no safety net to prevent total failure.
Just another liberal's
Submitted by Beukeboom on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 2:52pm.
Just another liberal's attempt to promote and possibly provoke class conflict.Inequality?
Submitted by IdahoJim on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 2:58pm.
Isn't it a d*mn shame that competent people make more money than the incompetent? If someone wants an education, if all else fails the public libraries are still free. But! I forgot! You have to register for a library card. The INS and FBI and CIA may be monitoring these registrations looking for illegal aliens, terrorist, and other otherwise oppressed peoples. There is always an invalid excuse or every failure to act.IdahoJim
http://idahoandy.net
Competence
Submitted by Justin Crowe on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 3:09pm.
As was said earlier, social class is a better predictor of wages than competence.BTW, have you met the entity here known as Mamabear?
Submitted by SickofLibs on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 3:31pm.
She's a noted digitologist, and has reams of research on the impact of finger-length on virtually all social issues.
There may be other forces at work beyond socioeconomics here.
Of course there are more
Submitted by dr2b on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 3:37pm.
Of course there are more issues and its only a correlation so it has to be taken with a grain of salt and a discerning eye. The study was a meta analysis which looked over many studies from 1990-2000 and the sample of students was a littler over 100k. It about the best look you can anaylize right now because it compiled all the studies. Naturally doing that you can't account for other variables like family situation or jobs held by parents. Simply just pointing out that just because poorer children don't perform as well in school doesn't mean they are lazy or stupid but other factors come into play.Of course...
Submitted by IdahoJim on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 8:33pm.
Why is it that poor kids lack drive or ambition or any impetus to better their current condition?A few are able to work a little harder to go from poor to successful. Not enough of them, if you ask me. Is it because these kids are taught that it can't be done despite the fact from examples it is so obvious that it can be done? Do poor kids look at successful people as failures? Are they assured that the class they were born into is the class where they will stay? In America, you can be anything you want to be. Work hard and be a success, or sit on your butt bitter that the world didn't hand you a cushy living just because you were born.
"In this society, you either work or starve." Robert Heinlein's novel, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress
IdahoJim
http://idahoandy.net
good one SOL*
Submitted by cajun2 on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 3:54pm.
Can you see a crowe and a mamabear teaming up?
No, it isn't
Submitted by CobraMan on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 8:43pm.
No it isn't. Employment requirements combined with labor availability is the biggest factor in determining wages. That why, for example, the dumbest person imaginable would be paid the same wages in a given job as the smartest person imaginable, as long as both have the abilities necessary to perform that job.
A high school drop-out, for example, will make the same hourly wages as fry cook as a person holding a master's degree in engineering. It's the employment requirements, and the availability of a labor source to fill those requirements, that determines wages. "Social class" has NOTHING to do with it.
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.
No, it's not Justin.
Submitted by bassndude on Wed, 03/23/2011 - 9:47am.
It is core values first, drive, determination and work ethic. Desire to achieve ones goals, and setting goals. If these things are instilled in a child from the beginning, they will succeed. Social class in nothing but an excuse for liberals to give money away. You stop all that, if the government will stop that, people will get out of their welfare apartment, get a job or an education and improve their own position.
But I am against giving them money to maintain that lower social class with no effort, and single mothers turning tricks for drug money.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal/troll!!
Hey Newsweek:
Submitted by Comrade Jim on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 3:09pm.
Correlation doesn't prove causation. Maybe it's ignorance causing low income, not the other way around. For example, did Newsweek's 1$ value cause ignorance at Newsweek? No, ignorance at Newsweek caused it to be worth 1$.HILL: It can be a tough test.
Submitted by dscott on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 3:52pm.
HILL: It can be a tough test. A lot of the stuff you learn in grade school or even in highschool maybe you forget. But the Vice President, someone who's out there in the news a lot, that many people who didn't know his name. How did that sit with you guys? Is that what you expected?
I think it was more worrisome to them that few knew that Biden was VP. What does that say about listening to the MSM let alone knowing the name of their masters, I mean benefactors? What does economic disadvantage got to do with education when school is FREE?ROMANO: It's not what I expected. It's kind of amazing, you know, current events can be kind of difficult to keep track of, but he is the second highest ranking elected official in the government. And so the fact that 29% of voters didn't know that – what his name was is amazing.
" Just give me the damn
Submitted by LAM SON 719 on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 3:58pm.
" Just give me the damn citiczenship papers"! " Why in the hell should I have to learn and study about a country I don't give s%%t about"? ....What most third world immigrants think.Comrade Jim
Submitted by dennyf51 on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 3:59pm.
Best comment of the day, kiss (keep it simple stupid)I guess we should cut out
Submitted by eaglewingz08 on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 6:13pm.
I guess we should cut out teachers' unions since they are obviously discriminating against kids on the basis of their wealth. How much money do you need to teach ten questions from the citizenship test? Hell, the teacher could just spend the money on a newspaper subscription, cut out or photocopy the relevant articles for his/her thirty kids, a fifty dollar investment, and the kids would be knowledgeable about the government. However, the problem isn't money, it's that the teachers union don't want to teach anything positive or valuable about our form of government, so they teach abortion politics, or gay play days, and belittle the rote memorization that goes on in other countries and which used to be a functioning part of our education system. It seems it is more important for leftwing teachers to teach their kids rants against republican elected officials, than to teach them the basics about our republican form of government. For that, there is a special place in hell for these miscreant teachers.Students at a major university
Submitted by peteydee on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 6:42pm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7MnrR-G6iQI blame government schools
Submitted by Dave. on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 6:59pm.
And I am not the only one.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
Are they stupid because they're poor?
Submitted by CobraMan on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 8:00pm.
Are they stupid because they're poor? Or are they poor because they're stupid?
It seems to me that people become rich because they're smart. ALL people are born ignorant of just about everything. We are all born"stupid." Face it, we don't even have the ability, the "smarts" to talk, walk, or even sit upright, for MONTHS or YEARS! We have to LEARN those skill, skills that most animals are born with and can immediately apply. So, what is causing this "income inquiry," a lack of education or a lack of intelligence itself? It can't be a lack of education as each and every one of us must, by law, attend school, so there isn't a "lack" of education involved. It must be something else. It must be a lack of intelligence. After all, a great number of "rich" people attended the same public schools as the rest of America, they are, in fact, the majority of the "rich," so you can forget about the "better education" argument.
It is apparent that "income iniquity" doesn't reflect the level of "available education" one receives, as education is a daily function of our very lives (learning doesn't occur only in "schools," we learn things 24/7 365/year, even when we're dreaming), it reflects the intelligence level of the person in question regardless of their "education." That's been known throughout the ages.
The ugly truth is, poor people remain poor because they are, well, stupid. Rich people are those who are able to remember and apply the knowledge, the skills, they observe and experience every single day. That's what makes them both "smart" and rich. "Poor" people, on the other hand, don't have this ability. It is their own continuing stupidity that keeps them poor.
I know some people will argue venomously against that basic truth, and some may even hate me for saying it and call me a racist or worse, but it's true. We are all born stupid. "Poor" people are one ones that stay that way throughout their entire lives. HOW is that the fault of income inequity when "income inequity" is an effect of stupidity and not a cause?
The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States. The US Constitution
Unless you're a fetus. The US Supreme Court
Or Anwar al-Awlaki.
The thirty-eight percent who failed…
Submitted by JPR1 on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 8:23pm.
...failed not because of a poor education, or because their parents are/were members of lower “socio-economic-status” groups.
These people failed because they are the kind of people who just-don’t give-a-rip; people who place their petty, immediate desires above anything that might constitute an acceptance of personal responsibility, respect for country or the ideals of achievement and contribution as measures of a life well lived.
In a nut-shell, they are the nation’s unprincipled slackers. That’s the way they were raised.
They’re the same morons who bought the line of BS dished out by the liberal activists, politicians and media and are therefore, largely responsible for the two-bit President we now have. (Extremely ironic they are apparently unaware of the buffoon he selected as his Vice President.)
I guess I could cut Erica some slack, had she even whispered that the abysmal state of public education might be responsible; she’d have been out of a job by weeks end.
Kudos to the NBer’s above who did such a fine job rebutting the academic clap-trap that seems to have spilled over from MettiaMadders. All the “meta-data” firmly quashed by the real world expediencies of individuals with probably 30 years of life on our still delusional trolls. Nice job!
Seriously?
Submitted by Justin Crowe on Wed, 03/23/2011 - 8:11am.
You seriously think those posting in this forum did a good job refuting the argument presented herein that socioeconomic status affects educational attainment? Almost every response posted to this argument was based upon anecdotal evidence and user "hunches" while one person arguing the case that socioeconomics is a factor was citing scientific studies. Moreover, scroll through the posts above and make a note where all the ad hominem attacks came from (I can assure you they were not made by those in this forum who were labelled "wah wah" liberals). By the way, in response to some of these ad hominem attacks made against me, I do have children (15 year old daughter in fact) and I am very well educated, meaning I have (and do) read lots of books.Justin
Submitted by Radical1979 on Wed, 03/23/2011 - 8:53am.
Then how do you account for the immigrants who seem to do so well here? Look at many small business's. such as dry cleaners, nail salons, dunkin' donut's, convenience stores, and other small shops. I see a majority of them being run by people with foreign accents. In talking to some of these people who's business's I frequent on a regular I find that they live in the lower socioeconomic areas of my community. But they work hard, save, and end up sending their children to college and/or private schools until college. Granted, this not backed by any "study", but what group is going to study this when it has the potential to hurt the feelings of people born in this country who are so used to hand outs that they refuse to work and cry they can't help themselves?Funny you should use the term "anecdotal evidence",
Submitted by SickofLibs on Wed, 03/23/2011 - 9:05am.
since you yourself did not cite EVEN ONE of these numerous "scientific studies" you've referred to over and over again.
I guess we're all supposed to just take your word for it because you are very well educated.
Sources
Submitted by Justin Crowe on Wed, 03/23/2011 - 11:15am.
Here is a good summary that cites many sources and studies from peer-reviewed and highly regarded journals. http://wikiedresearch.wikidot.com/socioeconomic-status-and-education I don't think you have a good understanding of what constitutes anecdotal evidence. Such arguments are based upon the experiences of one or a few people, and often result from hearsay. Thus, the argument that "I pulled myself from a bad economic situation, therefore all poor people can do it" is an anecdotal argument where the conclusion does not necessarily follow from the premise. As I stated earlier the experience of one or two individuals does not indicate a trend. This is basic critical thought and such arguments are widely recognized as fallacious. If you look through my argument, you will find that I did not make these kinds of statements.Hey, Crow: I don't understand "anecdotal evidence"?
Submitted by SickofLibs on Wed, 03/23/2011 - 11:25am.
This is now your 11th post on this thread, and finally you provide a link ... only after being called out to do so?
You're the one who's been anecdotal till now. Not to mention highfalutin-academic-y.
Highfalutin
Submitted by Justin Crowe on Wed, 03/23/2011 - 11:39am.
Again with the ad hominem attacks. Look it up, it adds nothing what-so-ever to your argument (in fact, such name calling makes you seem weak and defensive). How does calling me a "highfalutin academic" add anything to your argument? Does it really make a point, or does it simply detract from the main argument, as ad hominem attacks are designed to do? And what the heck is a "highfalutin-academic" and what are you trying to say by using that term?Sorry, Crow, but highfalutin describes you to a tee.
Submitted by SickofLibs on Wed, 03/23/2011 - 9:40pm.
And kindly cut the krap with the "ad hominems."
In your short time here, you've pretty much turned that into an artform.
Along with your derogatory highfalutinisms.
EDIT: next time, don't wait until your eleventh post to present any background info supporting your claim. Because, once again, UNSUBSTANTIATED academic-y highfalutinism will get you nowhere around this joint.
Ooh, ooh, SoL---
Submitted by matthewdean on Wed, 03/23/2011 - 9:32pm.
Justin Bieber Crowing cock says "Here is a good summary that cites many sources and studies from peer-reviewed and highly regarded journals."
Peer = belonging to the same group in society esp. when membership is determined by age, grade, or status -
Peer-reviewed = looked over by those who think as you do -
Highfalutin academic is good.
Very good.
Highfalutin azzhole, however, is not only better, but one letter shorter.
Now that is how to lay an ad hominem on a liberal dork troll.
MD
Ooh, ooh, MD:
Submitted by SickofLibs on Wed, 03/23/2011 - 9:43pm.
I found another good summary.
Wikie? Really?
Submitted by bassndude on Wed, 03/23/2011 - 11:33am.
You link to wikie as an authoritative source for socioeconomic research? You have a lot to learn yet Justin.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal/troll!!
Look up the sources
Submitted by Justin Crowe on Wed, 03/23/2011 - 11:39am.
Look up their sources, you can verify the things they say for yourself.By the Way
Submitted by Justin Crowe on Wed, 03/23/2011 - 11:42am.
Also, this web site is not Wikipedia, which is a terrible source of information. The article I posted was from a website maintained by a professor for his graduate students.Mmmmm yep.
Submitted by JPR1 on Wed, 03/23/2011 - 1:04pm.
Fact of the matter is you came in desperately trying to amplify the significance of the “wealth/income” angle; citing only the Meta data derived from numerous other studies (old studies at that). Your assertion was challenged and characterized as only marginally relevant. The whole point of Newsbusters, if I might remind you, is identifying liberal bias in the media. The CBS piece in question here is a sterling example in that even modest reasoning reveals that the “journalists” here focused on only one of the “big” causes; clearly avoiding any of the other “bigger” causes i.e. the sad state of public education or the general lack of motivation evident among today’s youth (some of yesterday’s youth as well I suppose). Their reasoning, conscious or not, was that consideration of any other causes would certainly reflect poorly on modern progressive liberal ideology. “Ad hominem attacks made against me…” I’m not to going to attempt an analysis of every comment above but if your skin is a little thin perhaps you could consider reviewing them yourself, looking for evidence of opposing argument, weak or strong. If you find such, your ad hom characterization fails. The snarky insults are just part of life on the boards I guess.Who is Biden?
Submitted by Agnostic on Tue, 03/22/2011 - 8:36pm.
In a world where you can not refer to people who openly claim to want to spill your blood, rape your wife and make slaves of your children as enemies without being shouted down - how can we expect people to care about current events much less what the media is blabbering about? You could listen to the news 24/7 and not understand a single current event so why should they bother. At least at the end of American Idol or whatever is popular today there is definitive winner/loser or right/wrong even if you don't agree.
The media is depressing as they chant out their one lonely message in a thousand different ways.
Ignorance (willing or otherwise) is not stupidity.
SoL--
Submitted by matthewdean on Wed, 03/23/2011 - 9:53pm.
The paperwork is complete; the surface wiped down.
Our job here with Justin Bird Brain is done.
MD
Income has nothing to do with it
Submitted by CivicsQuiz on Fri, 03/25/2011 - 7:24am.
This is a failure of our public education system and a failure of parents to promote civic knowledge and understanding. The Founding Fathers repeatedly warned us about this. http://CivicsQuiz.com