On MSNBC Friday, anchor John Harwood spoke with New York Times Week in Review editor Sam Tanenhaus about the health care debate, wondering: "...you know an awful lot about the patron saint of modern conservatism William F. Buckley. What do you suppose Bill Buckley would think of the nature of the arguments that are being made against the Obama health care plan right now, death panels and all the rest?"
Harwood, hosting the 2:00PM ET weekly New York Times Edition broadcast, was asking about Tanenhaus’s upcoming book, ‘The Death of Conservatism.’ Tanenhaus argued: "Well, you know, one of the great contributions Bill Buckley made to conservatism was to move it toward the center. And one way he did that was to repudiate in a very forceful way what was then called the lunatic fringe."
At that time, Harwood interjected: "The John Birch Society." Tanenhaus continued: "And they weren’t necessarily a dangerous group, but what they did was discredit serious conservative arguments." He then made the comparison to the current health care debate: "...and we may see in the days ahead where serious responsible Republicans and conservative thinkers say if they’re going to make a forceful argument the country can accept, they’ll have to cut themselves off from this more extreme view."
Harwood concluded: "Well, it’s an interesting point. It’s – I don’t see right now anybody cutting off that extreme view all that much."
Here is a full transcript of the exchange:
2:38PM SEGMENT:
JOHN HARWOOD: You’re watching live coverage on MSNBC. Air Force One has just landed in Belgrade, Montana for a town hall event on health care set to begin in just a short time. Now joining us live now is Sam Tanenhaus, editor of the Week in Review and Book Review for the New York Times. Sam, you’ve got a big piece on health care coming out this week. Talk a little about that. I understand it’s about the view from England about what’s going on in the United States.
SAM TANENHAUS: Hi, John. That’s right. Sara Lyall, great correspondent placed in England, is looking at how the British are assessing our health care debate. Some will remember the notorious assertion made in the American media that if the great physicist Stephen Hawking were subjected to British national health service, he would not be alive today. The fact is, he lives in England and has been saved by that health service for a long time. So the Brits-
HARWOOD: And showed up at the White House this week for a Medal of Freedom ceremony.
TANENHAUS: Well that’s it, you know. And part of the idea here is that the British grumble about the system they’ve got until somebody else attacks it, you know. So now, they’re looking at it again and we’ll show how our debate looks to them.
HARWOOD: Well, Sam, I want to switch gears and get a little different perspective. I know you’ve got a book coming out in September, ‘The Death of Conservatism,’ you know an awful lot about the patron saint of modern conservatism William F. Buckley. What do you suppose Bill Buckley would think of the nature of the arguments that are being made against the Obama health care plan right now, death panels and all the rest?
TANENHAUS: Well, you know, one of the great contributions Bill Buckley made to conservatism was to move it toward the center. And one way he did that was to repudiate in a very forceful way what was then called the lunatic fringe, people who made-
HARWOOD: The John Birch Society-
TANENHAUS: The John Birch Society was a very powerful organization in the early 1960s and its leader Robert Welch had called Dwight Eisenhower a Communist. And they weren’t necessarily a dangerous group, but what they did was discredit serious conservative arguments and we may see in the days ahead where serious responsible Republicans and conservative thinkers say if they’re going to make a forceful argument the country can accept, they’ll have to cut themselves off from this more extreme view.
HARWOOD: Well, it’s an interesting point. It’s – I don’t see right now anybody cutting off that extreme view all that much. Sam Tanenhaus, thanks for being with us just now.
TANENHAUS: My pleasure, John.
—Kyle Drennen is a news analyst at the Media Research Center.




















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Comments Policy
False rhetoric
August 14, 2009 - 16:13 ET by KC MulvilleWhy don't we ask the National Review? Who would be more likely to represent WFBuckley's real attitude?
If Harwood really wanted to represent what Buckley would have said (a clear invitation for self-serving fantasy), then why wasn't Rick Brookhiser invited? I'm sure Rich Lowry would have been available for a couple minutes. Maybe a number of Buckley's hand-picked colleagues?
Maybe MSNBC doesn't know how to get in touch with National Review. If the NB staff doesn't mind, here's the link.
no such thing as a free lunch
August 14, 2009 - 17:44 ET by katainkentI know its Milton Freidman's quote but Buckley used it in this one article I could find on the subject by the man himself.
___________________________________________
"The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" - HR 3200 (Health Care Bill) Pg. 203. Ln 14 & 15
Tannenhaus
August 15, 2009 - 05:48 ET by kiwikitsupposedly has been writing an approved biography of WFB Jr ever since he published his excellent WHITTAKER CHAMBERS biography more than a decade ago. Was this new 'conservative end' book the result? If so, that's what the subject deserves for assuming that Tannenhaus could be anything but just another lefty. His NYT Book Reviews, with its eschewing anything conservative ragardles of its being a best seller, have lost readership, like everything else at that rag; they can rant and rave ad infinitum about the death of conservatism but as long as there remains citizens who can think with their brains rather than emotions, we'll remain. Unfortunately, with the educrats destroying that ability in children, the last such capable generation may be on its last legs.
buckley woul probably say:
August 14, 2009 - 16:23 ET by misterbill"Stop calling me a crypto-Nazi, or I'll sock you in the goddamn face and you'll stay plastered."
"Hey, Let's Ask A Dead Guy"
August 14, 2009 - 16:26 ET by SickofLibsTune in next time to hear Rutherford B. Hayes' take on healthcare in this exciting new MSNBC series called "Hey, Let's Ask A Dead Guy."
Love it.
August 14, 2009 - 16:58 ET by nolotrippenLove it.
President Hayes
August 14, 2009 - 17:04 ET by JustAlThe late President Hayes will answer questions from an all star panel of socialists consisting of Vladimir Linin, Benito Mussolini, Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler and Franklin D. Rosevelt, (Ted Kennedy is rumored to be a possible surpise drop in!)
I C
August 14, 2009 - 16:33 ET by Joe CamelI see dead people...oh no..
Yes Buckley would be for a
August 14, 2009 - 16:40 ET by eaglewingz08Yes Buckley would be for a government takeover of one fifth of the economy. Keep believing that you ignorant tool of the leftwing media. Buckley is probably turning over in his grave at this.
Liberal propagandists
August 14, 2009 - 16:50 ET by jdhawkLiberal propagandists always think they are so clever by attempting to get conservatives to first accept their premise for an argument at hand and then argue from it. You see them attempt to do this over and over. Recently, I viewed a liberal propagandist attempt to do this to Ann Coulter. She shot right back that she didn't agree with the premise in the first place. I do not either.
The premise that is trying to put forward here is that somehow people that want to maintain the best health care on the planet and keep their health care insurance plan - over 70 percent that have healthcare insurance do - are nut jobs and extremists.
I am no nut job. I do not want socialized medicine. I am happy with the healthcare insurance that I have through my company. I do not want this healthcare plan to pass the Congress. I want it to fail. I want the president to fail.
Please join me and write, e-mail, or call your congressman and senators to help defeat this bill. Yes, I know many of you have already done so, but keep it up. We must defeat this crap.
And one of the premises
August 15, 2009 - 13:20 ET by mattmAnd one of the premises they try to get people to accept is that if you're against government-run healthcare, you're against reform.
I'm not an "opponent of reform," I'm an opponent of a government takeover of the system. That's the preface I'd start with in answering these bozo's.
Bill Buckley Would Have Supported Health Care Reform
August 14, 2009 - 17:32 ET by SterlingOh my, so reactionary. Buckley was the same type of conservative that I am. He would hate all these scare tactics that the lunatic fringe is using to shoot down health care reform. All this talk about Death Panels and killing old folks- Buckley would look at such speech for what it is; Hate Speech. I find it oh so funny how so many so-called conservatives want to re-write history. I think we should ask Bill Buckley’s son Chris how he would have viewed this issue- I’m sure he would agree with me and Tanenhaus that Buckley would deplore this neo-con rhetoric.
Your a Conservative?
August 14, 2009 - 17:42 ET by allanfYou are very droll troll.
careful
August 14, 2009 - 17:47 ET by katainkentyou're going to get a huge dissertation on Locke, Burke and Rousseau. And I don't mean the characters on Lost ;)
___________________________________________
"The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" - HR 3200 (Health Care Bill) Pg. 203. Ln 14 & 15
Someone has to let these
August 14, 2009 - 17:55 ET by SterlingSomeone has to let these neo-cons know about the Right Honorable Edmund Burke. I am more of a fan of Hobbs though.
you are nothing if not entertaining.
August 14, 2009 - 18:08 ET by katainkentyou are nothing if not entertaining.
pssst.... You misspelled Hobbes.
___________________________________________
"The tax imposed under this section shall not be treated as tax" - HR 3200 (Health Care Bill) Pg. 203. Ln 14 & 15
Sterling Should Do a Set at A Comedy Club
August 14, 2009 - 19:21 ET by allanfHe can repeat "neocon" and "Bush Lied" . Sort of an avant-garde Jeff Foxworthy sthick. You know your a conservative if you think "Bush Lied".
Here is a witty little joke
August 14, 2009 - 19:34 ET by SterlingHow about, if you wear a dirty NASCAR shirt; and your name is Billy Bob, and you think that Obama was born in Kenya…. You might be a Republican.
→ True enough
August 14, 2009 - 19:40 ET by Cool ArrowOr you might just be a guy named Billy Bob, wearing a NASCAR shirt, believing an Internet rumor.
Stop being such a racist, Sterling. That was uncalled for.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
Maybe Bill Would Have
August 14, 2009 - 17:44 ET by JustAl. . . just listened to what the man said in his own words back in April:
THE PRESIDENT: So that’s where I think you just get into some very difficult moral issues. But that’s also a huge driver of cost, right?
I mean, the chronically ill and those toward the end of their lives are accounting for potentially 80 percent of the total health care bill out here.
LEONHARDT: So how do you — how do we deal with it?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, I think that there is going to have to be a conversation that is guided by doctors, scientists, ethicists. And then there is going to have to be a very difficult democratic conversation that takes place. It is very difficult to imagine the country making those decisions just through the normal political channels. And that’s part of why you have to have some independent group that can give you guidance. It’s not determinative, but I think has to be able to give you some guidance. And that’s part of what I suspect you’ll see emerging out of the various health care conversations that are taking place on the Hill right now.
So as of April 2009 Obama himself expected the final legislation to include some sort of group (but NOT a "death panel"!) that would produce voluntary guidelines for end of life care with an eye towards saving money.
Totally reactionary as in a reaction to an ACTION. I guess you are out there working toward "Peace in our time, eh?"
The death panels are the people holding healthcare reform back
August 14, 2009 - 17:52 ET by SterlingFirst, where did you get that quote? I would love to read it in the full context. Secondly, the so-called “Death Panels” that Palin got the Senate to remove was optional. It was not forced upon the citizen’s it just gave seniors the option of talking with doctors about their best options. Obviously, you “conservatives” do not like choices. It seems that everything is always a zero-sum gain for you. Buckley would detest such brainless populist rhetoric.
Have you read the bill that
August 14, 2009 - 17:56 ET by expatriotHave you read the bill that is identified? Slow down and look at the big picture.
By the way, get rid of the
August 14, 2009 - 17:59 ET by expatriotBy the way, get rid of the conservative moniker. We like our trolls to be self assured and have the gravitas to stand up and hand it out. You're lacking so far.
Cheers!
Only liberals, their
August 14, 2009 - 19:34 ET by NL207Only liberals, their stooges, the ignorant and the misinformed believe healthcare in America needs reform. By accepting the false premise that healthcare in America, which is unequivocally the best in the world, is in need of reform, you identify yourself as a member of one of these aforementioned groups and, exclude yourself from conservatism.
You might be a follower of Hobbs. But that also is an aadmission you are not a conservative, since Hobbs did not adhere to classical liberalism.
Yes he would.....
August 14, 2009 - 17:48 ET by expatriotThere is no hate speech/scare tactics about it. Buckley would say that the Gov't needs to get the heck out of the way and let private enterprise work in the best interests of all AMERICANS! Initiate tort reform and get the onerous regulations out of the way and next thing you know......affordable health care is there for all.
Just like the housing bubble it is the Gov't that caused the problem. Go ahead and sign up, the rest of us won't and you will be the one on the short end. Where did the neo-con reference come up?
Good Luck.
What NL207 said
August 14, 2009 - 17:54 ET by expatriotWhat NL207 said
Remind me again, did
August 14, 2009 - 17:58 ET by SterlingRemind me again, did Buckley's son not support Barack?
I',m talking about BILL.
August 14, 2009 - 18:01 ET by expatriotI',m talking about BILL. If you study history most of the progeny don't live up to their sires values or capabilities.
Sorry about that. Next?
And? What's next, telling
August 14, 2009 - 22:18 ET by ckc1227And? What's next, telling us Ronald Reagan would be for government run health care because his son Ron supported Obama?
I doubt it. You claim
August 14, 2009 - 17:49 ET by NL207I doubt it.
You claim philosphical kinship with the man who wrote the following and you also claim its author would support this statist monstrosity aiming to nationalize healthcare in America. I reject your absurd claims and reject the notion you are any kind of conservative.
Among our convictions:
NL207
August 14, 2009 - 18:06 ET by SterlingI am quite sure that it took you great pains to write that manifesto; considering it is about three pages long. Usually, out of all of these thugs that try to bully me, you are the most thought-provoking. That being the case let me explain this to you.
Buckley would have supported Health Care Reform because he was a classical conservative. You see conservatives believe in change as well- it is just the pace of the change that they disagree about with Liberals. He would have called for a gradual incremental increase of National Health Care among the people. Yes, folks you should read up on your conservative thought before you embarrass yourselves; obviously, I am the only true conservative here.
Wrong again
August 14, 2009 - 18:24 ET by general companyBuckley would have supported Health Care Reform because he was a classical conservative.
He, just like many of us here would like to remove the Gov influences on the many items they have over-regulated. I wont waste my time pointing out the differances between Health care reform and the current ledgislation, you wont debate it anyway. Hardly a comparison to what this current crop of Dems want to do.
Hope I didnt bully you to much,,,,geez
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
You claim to follow William
August 14, 2009 - 19:43 ET by NL207You claim to follow William F. Buckley, but are unable to recognize an attributed quotation from him. Follow the link. Where does it go? NRO? What you attribute to me is the original mission statement for National Review written by William F. Buckley.
Who looks foolish now?
>Bang!< >Bang!< >Bang!<, >Bang!< >Bang!< >Bang!<
What's that sound?
Why, It's Old NL nailing up a fresh troll hide on his barn wall!
Sterling, Where are
August 14, 2009 - 18:02 ET by expatriotSterling,
Where are you?
Do not fret here I am
August 14, 2009 - 18:06 ET by SterlingI was reading the novel NL207 wrote.
Quiche Time
August 14, 2009 - 18:12 ET by SterlingWell I will be back later friends; I must attend to my quiche that is just about ready. It goes perfectly with a nice white wine- Oh, I just adore fine dining.
Are you denigrating quiche?
August 14, 2009 - 18:18 ET by expatriotA perfectly fine entrée, or starter if you will. And yes it goes well with the proper white wine. Pouilly-Fuisse or another good white.
Enjoy.
Sterling
August 14, 2009 - 18:39 ET by expatriotI'm in europe so its bed time. Actually well past time. Talk to you tomorrow. Enjoy the quiche and wine. We'll take this up later.
E
Translation: I have to take
August 14, 2009 - 22:13 ET by ckc1227Translation: I have to take the order out to the table I'm waiting on.
Good, you can read
August 14, 2009 - 18:14 ET by expatriotNL207 nailed it. Yes we conservatives want the system FIXED as opposed to CHANGED. Change leaves a connotation of loosing personal liberties that this administration is all about implementing. The city folk are scared of us who can take care of ourselves and actually field dress the game we take to feed the family.
Obama eats Kobe beef but knows nothing about how it gets to his table. Hate to be the bearer of bad news but someone killed that animal and then slaughtered it. Just like I had to do with deer, pheasant, quail and ducks.
They all taste great when prepared right.
My point is this no name has no experience leading anything larger than a community mob and is taking us down the road to hell.
Tell me how he is not.
William F. Buckley Jr. wasn't David Brooks
August 14, 2009 - 18:36 ET by PatConThe historical revisionism of Buckley practiced by liberal ajudicators like Sam Tanenhaus is utterly infuriating. Buckley was not some some snobbish Brooksian "moderate" with nebulous poll-driven beliefs. He was, all his public life, a proud member of the American Right with resolutely conservative principles. He certainly didn't "move conservativism to the center" (a contradiction), he was for almost 60 years its most eloquent spokesman and made it palatable to millions of people disgusted with the incompetent overreach of the Great Society.
Fast Dating
August 14, 2009 - 22:14 ET by JohanWatching Obama try to sell his Health Care plan is like going to one of those "Fast Dating" seminars. You don't get much face time, every word is scripted, and you hear a lot of BS.
Just another spin is all
August 15, 2009 - 10:08 ET by SnappyJust another spin is all this is, the tried and true appeal for the "Serious" Republicans to distance themselves from the radicals and start acting like weak moderates or even better, Democrats so we can get this discussion settled and voted on.
August 15, 2009 - 15:06 ET by jessieHLike I give a rat's ass what he thinks!
Channeling Buckley?
August 16, 2009 - 07:23 ET by KansasgirlIf I understand their argument, are they channeling Buckley?