CBS’s Pelley: ‘Tens of Thousands of Innocent Iraqis’ Killed During U.S. Occupation

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Scott Pelley, CBS While interviewing Washington Post associate editor Bob Woodward on Sunday’s 60 Minutes about his latest book on the Bush Administration’s handling of the Iraq war, The War Within, anchor Scott Pelley described how: "Another part of that story, according to Woodward, is the president's frustration with the attitude of the Iraqi people." Woodward explained: "He has a meeting at the Pentagon with a bunch of experts and he just said, 'I don't understand that the Iraqis are not appreciative of what we've done for them,' namely liberating them." Pelley then asked: "But tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis had been killed in the invasion and through the occupation. He didn't understand why they might be a little ungrateful about what had occurred to them?"

Woodward replied by skeptically explaining President Bush’s perspective: "His beacon is liberation. He thinks we've done this magnificent thing for them. I think he still holds to that position." Earlier in the interview, Pelley seemed to imply that Bush was almost bloodthirsty, wanting know how many enemy had been killed each day: "Mr. Bush told Woodward that he was frustrated with his commanders and asked for enemy body counts so he could keep score." Woodward described: "And this is Bush's concern that we're not going out and killing. In fact, [General George] Casey told one colleague privately that the president's view is almost reflective of ‘kill the bastards, kill the bastards, and that way we'll succeed.’"

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Pelley also suggested that the president deceived the American people by not saying that the U.S. was losing the war prior to the troop surge: "Woodward reports that a secret study for the Joint Chiefs of Staff in 2006 concluded that the US was losing the war. But the president didn't give a hint of that in public." Pelley then asked Woodward: "Why do you think that the president didn't level with the American people in this dark period in this war?" Woodward replied: "Because he wanted it to work, did not want to deflate the morale of the troops. And there was political election coming up, the November 2006 congressional elections. It was a raw political calculation that if you tell the public or let it get out that they are reconsidering what they're doing, that they're acknowledging that it's not going well, all political hell would break loose."

Here is the full transcript of the segment:

7:00PM SEGMENT:

SCOTT PELLEY: A year and a half since the surge in Iraq. Violence is about as low as it's been since the invasion. The idea of throwing another 30,000 troops into Iraq was a desperate gamble in a dark time. And only now are we finding out just how much opposition there was to the surge among generals at the Pentagon and in Iraq. That's among the revelations in a new book by Washington Post associate editor Bob Woodward. 'The War Within' is Woodward's fourth insider account from the Bush White House. We sat down with Woodward for his first interview in advance of the book's release and we asked him about the war within the administration after the surge was proposed by civilians in the White House. When this idea of a surge makes its way across the Potomac River over to the Pentagon, what do the top generals think of it?

BOB WOODWARD: They think it won't work, and the president actually at one point goes and meets with them, and the Army chief of staff, General Schoomaker, says, 'You can't add five brigades. It will take many more. What about another crisis? We don't have troops for this. What about the damage you're doing to the force, the young kids, who see nothing but endless rotations?'

PELLEY: What does General Casey, sitting in Baghdad, think of having additional troops?

WOODWARD: He thinks that Baghdad is a troop sump, a place you just -- you can put endless numbers of troops in. And he does not want to add force.

PELLEY: The president, who has said in public endless times that he relies on his generals to tell him what they need, is actually going his own way here.

WOODWARD: That's right. The records of the Joint Chiefs show that the idea of five brigades came from the White House, not from anybody except the White House.

PELLEY: 'The War Within,' published by CBS owned Simon & Schuster, tracks the growing alarm inside the White House in 2006 as US casualties mounted during Iraq's plunge towards civil war. The book is based on more than 150 interviews, including recorded conversations with the president. Mr. Bush told Woodward that he was frustrated with his commanders and asked for enemy body counts so he could keep score.

GEORGE W. BUSH: I asked that on occasion to find out whether or not we're fighting back, because the perception is that our guys are dying and they're not, because we don't put out numbers. We don't have -- we don't have a tally. On the other hand, if I'm sitting here watching the casualties come in, I'd at least like to know whether or not our soldiers are fighting.

WOODWARD: It gets so intense that in one of the secure video conferences between Washington and Baghdad, the president says to Casey, 'George, we're not playing for a tie.' And Casey's knuckles, according to witnesses, literally go white as he's gripping the table, and he says, 'No, Mr. President, we are not playing for a tie.' And this is Bush's concern that we're not going out and killing. In fact, Casey told one colleague privately that the president's view is almost reflective of 'kill the bastards, kill the bastards, and that way we'll succeed.'

PELLEY: You've obtained a number of documents, classified secret, that the president was receiving in this period of time. What was the president hearing about what was going on in Iraq?

WOODWARD: On July 20th, the top secret special compartmented information report that went directly to him quotes from an intelligence report saying violence is so out of hand, so extensive, that it is self-sustaining.

PELLEY: Woodward reports that a secret study for the Joint Chiefs of Staff in 2006 concluded that the US was losing the war. But the president didn't give a hint of that in public.

BUSH: Absolutely, we're winning. We're winning and we will win unless we leave before the job is done.

PELLEY: Why do you think that the president didn't level with the American people in this dark period in this war?

WOODWARD: Because he wanted it to work, did not want to deflate the morale of the troops. And there was political election coming up, the November 2006 congressional elections. It was a raw political calculation that if you tell the public or let it get out that they are reconsidering what they're doing, that they're acknowledging that it's not going well, all political hell would break loose.

PELLEY: At the time, top military advisers were urging the president to reduce US forces so Iraqis would do more of the fighting. But the president asked his national security adviser, Stephen Hadley, to work on a different strategy, and three weeks after the '06 election, Mr. Bush was moving toward a fateful decision. The president traveled to Amman, Jordan, to meet with Prime Minister Maliki, and behind closed doors, he said what to him?

WOODWARD: He said, 'I am prepared to send tens of thousands of more troops here, and I need your cooperation, I need your endorsement of this idea.' Al-Maliki's a little resistant but eventually they hammer home and get Maliki to go on board with this.

PELLEY: So the president has told Maliki there's going to be a surge of thousands of troops. Has the president told General Casey, his top man in Baghdad, that?

WOODWARD: No. No. The military is kind of on the outside of this because they are adhering to the strategy of drawing down.

PELLEY: The president decided the new strategy needed a new team. He replaced many in the military leadership. Woodward reports that even the influence of Vice President Cheney diminished sharply.

WOODWARD: When the president decides to replace or fire Rumsfeld, he doesn't consult Cheney.

PELLEY: He doesn't ask him at all?

WOODWARD: He calls him in privately after meeting a day or two before the announcement that Rumsfeld is going to be replaced, and he says, 'I'm replacing Rumsfeld.' Cheney's surprised, and says, 'With whom?' He says, 'With Bob Gates.' And Cheney's pretty open and says, 'Well, I disagree, but it's obviously your call.'

PELLEY: The president also replaced General Casey. The new general in charge of Iraq was David Petraeus, an early advocate of the surge. Woodward says that in a private meeting in the Oval Office, the president told Petraeus he was sending in nearly 30,000 additional troops.

WOODWARD: He says, 'You know, we're committing these five brigades. It's double-down,' using a gambler's term.

PELLEY: The president says that to Petraeus?

WOODWARD: And Petraeus says, 'No, Mr. President, it's not double-down, it's all in.'

PELLEY: Playing the new hand, Petraeus created small bases throughout Baghdad, put troops on patrol in neighborhoods and largely calmed the streets. In western Iraq in Anbar province, the heart of the insurgency, Sunni tribal leaders tired of al-Qaeda started coming over to the American side. But beyond all of that, Woodward reports for the first time that there is a secret behind the success of the surge, a sophisticated and lethal special operations program.

WOODWARD: This is very sensitive and very top secret, but there are secret operational capabilities that have been developed by the military to locate, target and kill leaders of al-Qaeda in Iraq, insurgent leaders, renegade militia leaders. That is one of the true breakthroughs.

PELLEY: What are we talking about here? It's some kind of surveillance, some kind of targeted way of taking out just the people that you're looking for, the leadership of the enemy?

WOODWARD: I'd love to go through the details but I'm not going to.

PELLEY: The details, Woodward says, would compromise the program. For a reporter, you don't allow much.

WOODWARD: Well, no, it's not -- I -- it's with reluctance. From what I know about it, it's one of those things that go back to any war, World War I, World War II, the role of the tank and the airplane, and it is the stuff of which military novels are written.

PELLEY: Do you mean to say that this special capability is such an advance in military technique and technology that it reminds you of the advent of the tank and the airplane?

WOODWARD: Yeah. If you were an al-Qaeda leader or part of the insurgency in Iraq or one of these renegade militias and you knew about what they were able to do, you'd get your ass out of town.

PELLEY: There's another revelation in your book about US intelligence, and that is just how closely we are watching the Iraqi prime minister, supposedly our ally, Nouri al-Maliki.

WOODWARD: There is significant surveillance of Maliki. And as one source told me, `We know everything he says.' And others I've talked to about that say, 'You can't literally know everything, but we know a great deal.'

PELLEY: Is there any indication that Maliki knows that we're watching him that closely?

WOODWARD: Some people think that he should know and that he might know. Others think he's going to be shocked.

PELLEY: Well, he knows now.

WOODWARD: It's part of the hidden story here.

PELLEY: Another part of that story, according to Woodward, is the president's frustration with the attitude of the Iraqi people.

WOODWARD: He has a meeting at the Pentagon with a bunch of experts and he just said, 'I don't understand that the Iraqis are not appreciative of what we've done for them,' namely liberating them.

PELLEY: But tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis had been killed in the invasion and through the occupation. He didn't understand why they might be a little ungrateful about what had occurred to them?

WOODWARD: His beacon is liberation. He thinks we've done this magnificent thing for them. I think he still holds to that position.

PELLEY: The president suggests to you in your interview that he believes he's already outmaneuvered whoever the next president is, foreclosed their options on what to do about Iraq.

WOODWARD: He and the Secretary of Defense Gates both, by appointing Petraeus as central commander, other words, the boss of the whole Middle East, and no matter who becomes president, they're not going to be able to replace him. Petraeus is what my old boss at The Post used to call 'fireproof.' He's done so well that he can't be fired. There is some satisfaction people in the Bush administration take with that.

PELLEY: Satisfaction because they believe General Petraeus will resist a quick withdrawal from Iraq.

WOODWARD: General Petraeus is sitting with 140,000 troops in Iraq now when conditions are definitely better. But Petraeus says it's still reversible and fragile because so many bad things have happened.

PELLEY: You know, I'm curious, did you ask the president what advice he would give to the next president about the war?

WOODWARD: Yes, and pressed on what is the essence of what you would say, he said, 'Don't let it fail.'

—Kyle Drennen is a news analyst at the Media Research Center.


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Earlier in the interview,

Earlier in the interview, Pelley seemed to imply that Bush was almost bloodthirsty, wanting know how many enemy had been killed each day: "Mr. Bush told Woodward that he was frustrated with his commanders and asked for enemy body counts so he could keep score." Woodward described: "And this is Bush's concern that we're not going out and killing. In fact, Casey told one colleague privately that the president's view is almost reflective of ‘kill the bastards, kill the bastards, and that way we'll succeed.’"

I have not witnessed any pressure being brought to do bodycounts.  As a matter of fact, I have witnessed pressure to do just the opposite.

I wonder what war Mr Woodward is writing about and Mr Pelley is interviewing regarding.

BD. Speaking of bloodthirsty..

BD. Speaking of bloodthirsty..

The "leader of the free world [That'd be ole Bill Clinton]" waxing oh so eloquently:

"'We're not inflicting pain on these fuckers,' Clinton said, softly at first. 'When people kill us, they should be killed in greater numbers.' Then, with his face reddening, his voice rising, and his fist pounding his thigh, he leaned into Tony [Lake], as if it was his fault. 'I believe in killing people who try to hurt you. And I can't believe we're being pushed around by these two-bit pricks.'"
-- George Stephanopoulos writing about the Somalia crisis in "All Too Human," page 214

Hey! Everyone remember how following the release of this book, how the MSM - folks like Pelly, Rather, Larry King, etc. - all were rabid jockeying for position to get Stephonoloulos on their show first, and how they begged of him the questions regarding Clinton's love for violence?

Remember?

Oh sure.

(;~> gary

Who killed them?

The terrorists, the extremists, the enemy -- that is who. That's what terrorists are most good at -- killing innocents. And how to you stop terrorists? You "kill the bastards." Unless you are the left-wing media, who have done everything short of championing their cause.

Remember that AQI and the

Remember that AQI and the Republican Guard were using innocents as shields and using apartments surrounded by civilians as their firing points.

The civilians died because those above them put them in harms way.

And the reaction from the

And the reaction from the Leftist press is exactly what they knew it would be.  They can't seem to figure out that they are constinually used as little Neville Chamberlains by the tyrants and terrorists who count on their ignorance to spread their propaganda.

Gee I'm shocked. Woodward

Gee I'm shocked. Woodward and Friedman come out with books bashing the republicans and the Bush Administration right before the elections. And the liberal media joins in. What a surprise.

Referring to Obama "I hope he'll win. I think he will. If he doesn't, you can kiss the Democratic Party goodbye . . .," Robert Redford

War is hell...

War is hell...

OldArmy

Brilliant!

Referring to Obama "I hope

Referring to Obama "I hope he'll win. I think he will. If he doesn't, you can kiss the Democratic Party goodbye . . .," Robert Redford

All the more reason to oppose him.

Exactly! My hope is that

Exactly! My hope is that Obama loses and Redford's prediction comes true.

Referring to Obama "I hope he'll win. I think he will. If he doesn't, you can kiss the Democratic Party goodbye . . .," Robert Redford

Move, Bob

Gee, do you think when Obama loses that Robert Redford will leave the country - and take Alec Baldwin and Barbra Streisand with him?????

I've heard these types of

I've heard these types of promises before from Hollywood elites.  So far they have not made good on their promises.

They could take Barbra's

They could take Barbra's plane. They'll buy carbons before they go I'm sure. By the way...how does one obtain a carbon? Do they mail it to you, or do you download it...how? I digress.

Referring to Obama "I hope he'll win. I think he will. If he doesn't, you can kiss the Democratic Party goodbye . . .," Robert Redford

I'd prefer...

I'd much rather see both partie's go. The two party system is far too divisive, and you can sit here and blame them all day and the ycan blame us as much as they want, but eventually people need to realize that there is a middle ground and we're all ruining it.

So many posters here seem so angry at liberals for everything, any....little.....thing. As much as I don't agree with them, I'm not going to get into the business of bashing them because all it does is create more stupidity and disinformation. Both sides lie, both sides embelish. Obama does it and so does McCain, Biden certainly does it and Palin as well.

McCain has my vote but I'm really starting to see why so many people like Obama for the whole "Change" thing, despite his obvious lack of expierience and slim resume regarding his legislative career on the U.S. level. 

"Idealism is fine, but as it approaches reality, the costs become prohibitive.” - William F. Buckley Jr.

ImallRight

Good to see you noted obama's lack of experience. You forgot, however, to note his lousy record on "changing" anything as well. Same old, same old with this guy.

"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008

Woodward is whoring his

Woodward is whoring his book, Pelley has always been a CBS leftist whore....

Nothing new here.

Thank you Mr. President, thank you all in the fine military.

This makes me sick, these people never quit, ever, it's not like all this wasn't planned and timed for the is time of the year to attempt to hurt the President, let alone the election...we all know it.

Victory is near...thank God for the back-bone and determination of the military and the President.

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

I smell Scott

I smell Scott McLellan!

Increasing Hate For Palin

 

 

Making Fun of AGW http://giovanniworld.wordpress.com/    

His beacon is liberation.

His beacon is liberation. He thinks we've done this magnificent thing for them. I think he still holds to that position - And a few generations hence, if the Iraqi still have freedom, they will se how it was good for them.  It is always about the thousands killed, and non are terrorists always civilians.

It would be instructive to see what the pubic thought about the civil war in teh USA and the animosity felt toward Yankee scum who raped and killed many.  Now a 140 years hence we see the validity of that war and how it solidified us a a people. 

Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.

The public had a very low

The public had a very low opinion of Lincoln at the time.  I suspect that history will repeat itself and Bush will be held in the same regard as Lincoln for his foresight and conviction.  The test now is for the next President to build on this success and not let it slip away.

Selective memory

Did Pelley happen to bring up the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis killed by the Saddam regime before the COALITION LIBERATION of Iraq?  

Didn't think so.  

muslims killing muslims. 

muslims killing muslims.  It really is as simple as that.  I don't want a president sitting in office that does not want to kill plenty of the enemy in a war.  In fact, kill so many of them, that the rest kind of feel like stopping the fight.

Now these reporters have other axes to grind.  They couldn't give a rats ass if America won any battle.  They don't want America to succeed. The mircoscope they put the US military under should be used for their own ethics and bias.  Better yet, it's best not to believe a single word these cowards write or say.  You and the country would be the better for it.

Isn't killing the enemy the

Isn't killing the enemy the way to win a war?  Did the lefties change the rules while we weren't looking?

You can just tell that those two are really angry that we're winning.

only "tens of thousands"???

Why I thought it was over a million. It seems those MSM zeros (no, not the journalists.. at least not this time) keep appearing and disappearing as if by magic. Next thing you know the zeros (yes, this time I mean journalists) will report actual numbers from the actual death records. Be still my heart. Is that the sound of flying porkers out my window...???

Oh yeah, you want to show me the evidence that we killed them?? and the supporting evidence that they were not armed combatants??

Waiting... any time now... in three, two, ... [sound of crickets chirping]

Liberal mantra trampled....statistically speaking

 

Let's review, shall we?

Fruitcakes on the left have stated "hundreds of thousands" died since US forces ended the reign of terror of Saddam Hussein.  The septic tank dwellers visiting left wing blogs declare "millions" dead -- all the result of murderous US action.  Now, this waterboy on "60 Minutes" hosts one of America's leading liberal authors -- someone achingly desperate to replicate the Watergate era -- in a failed attempt to "unmuddy" the water for all of us.

The left wants to extrapolate collateral damage, deliberately ignoring realities surrounding each and every civilian death during a combat action.  There is no standing order or military contigency for deliberate targeting of innocents -- great care is taken to avoid civilian casualties.  However, just as American liberals are prone to do, our enemies hide behind schoolchildren, women, and hospitals, knowing our forces will refrain from using necessary force to destroy them.  Instead, we are forced to carefully comb every nook and cranny, placing our men in greater danger.  (No mention of that).  We've chronicled this fact many times -- the left wingers and their liberal flacks in the media deliberately and despicably mischaracterize this fight.        

Bob Woodward

.............still waxes nostalgic of the Watergate era. In his own warped and convoluted thinking, he believes every republican administration, lurking deep within it's bowels another "deepthroat", where upon he can launch an investigation of the malfeasance of the new Nixon regime. In a way, I almost feel sorry for the man.

treason?

there was a day when sharing secrets with people, such as the surveillance of maliki, would have been considered treasonous.

 

needs more cowbell

I want to write a book too.

  Just like Vietnam, how is it possible that we are losing/lost a war in which we have won every single battle?

  The very idea of going out and killing the enemy, of the President advocating going out and killing the enemy, would receive high praise in my book.

 

U.S. history is replete

U.S. history is replete with cases where we were losing the war before we won it. (Like almost ALL of them)

Revolutionary War

War of 1812

Civil War (Union)

WWI (Allies)

WWII (Allies)

Korea

Vietnam (But then we lost the war exactly because officials DID say we were losing)

If you WANT to LOSE a war you DO  tell people you are losing. If you WANT to WIN a war, you DON'T  tell people you are losing. 

               A gun in your hand beats a cop on the phone.

Hold up...

This interview and book are so laughable, I could spend all day picking the idiocy apart.  Instead, I'll just poke fun at the part that jumped out at me as the worst.

"In fact, [General George] Casey told one colleague privately that the president's view is almost reflective of ‘kill the bastards, kill the bastards, and that way we'll succeed.’"  Can we count the number of things wrong here?  First of all, how does Woodward have knowledge of something General Casey supposedly told a colleague in private?  Does he keep bugs in the Pentagon for this sort of thing?  Next, even if we accept at face value that Woodward has some magical knowledge of a private conversation the General had, when did hearsay become an acceptable standard of proof for... well, anything?  A step further, assuming both the previous and that hearsay has merit (heck, just to be nice, I won't even contend that the General's words possibly conveyed a different meaning than Woodward's paraphrasing), he's decrying the President using the General's impression of Bush's views?

Let's see, set up in a trial (or grand jury; take your pick) setting, the equivalent scenario would be something like this:
Judge Pelley - "Prosecutor Woodward, what evidence do you have that Mr. Bush is guilty of warmongering?"
Prosecutor Woodward:  "Well, I head about this private conversation General Casey had with a guy, see?  And he told the guy that he thought the Defendant thought killing was fun."
Defense Attorney - "Objection!  Hearsay, speculation, and how does the Prosecutor know what was said in this private conversation, anyway?"
Judge Pelley - "Nah, overruled.  This is great stuff!"

Like I said, it's all a joke.

Day-by-Day - Proving that conservative comedy not only exists but is good stuff.

"With your mind as high as Mt. Fuji you can see all things clearly. And you can see all the forces that shape events; not just the things near to you." -Miyamoto Musashi

"In fact, Casey told

one colleague privately that the president's view
is almost reflective of 'kill the bastards, kill the bastards, and that
way we'll succeed."

Works for me.

I thought it was HUNDREDS of

I thought it was HUNDREDS of thousands. Like 500,000...

Oh...