On Sunday’s "60 Minutes" on CBS, anchor Scott Pelley interviewed Murat Kurnaz, a german-born Muslim man who was released from Guantanamo Bay after five years, having been found innocent of terrorist activity, and as Pelley declared: "At the age of 19, Murat Kurnaz vanished into America's shadow prison system in the war on terror...The story Kurnaz told us is a rare look inside that clandestine system of justice, where the government's own secret files reveal that an innocent man lost his liberty, his dignity, his identity, and ultimately, five years of his life."
Pelley went on to describe Kurnaz’s claims of being tortured by the U.S. military:
Kurnaz claims his interrogations at Kandahar turned to torture. He told us that American troops held his head underwater...Kurnaz says the Americans used a device to shock him with electricity that made his body go numb. And he says he was hoisted up on chains, suspended by his arms from the ceiling of an aircraft hangar for five days.
After Kurnaz described how a doctor would monitor his health during such torture, Pelley asked: "The point of the doctor's visit was not to treat you; it was to see if you could take another six hours hanging from the ceiling?"
Pelley then said to Kurnaz: "I suspect that you know that the military will deny that this happened. The US military will deny that you were shocked. It will deny that your head was held in a bucket of water. It will deny that you hung from a ceiling for days at a time." Kurnaz replied: "It doesn't matter whatever they will say. The truth -- the truth will not change."
Pelley went on to claim that Kurnaz’s case was one of many, a "pattern" of torture:
Kurnaz isn't alone in these allegations. Other freed prisoners have described electric shocks at Kandahar. And even US troops have admitted beating prisoners who were hanging by their arms. Kurnaz's story fits a pattern...The Pentagon labeled the prisoners "unlawful enemy combatants." They didn't have the rights of prisoners of war and were beyond the reach of any court. At Guantanamo, Kurnaz says he endured endless months of interrogations, beatings at the hands of soldiers in riot gear and physical cruelty, which included going without sleep for weeks and solitary confinement for up to a month in cells that were sealed without ventilation or were set up to punish him with extreme conditions.
Pelley then talked to Kurnaz’s American attorney, Baher Azmy, a constitutional law professor from Seton Hall Law School, who has worked with the left-wing Center for Constitutional Rights while representing Kurnaz. In its mission statement, the Center for Constitutional Rights exclaims: "We are dedicated to restoring the fundamental right to habeas corpus and will continue to combat the illegal expansion of executive power and the American torture programs that have undermined fundamental rights in the name of the so-called "war on terror."
At one point, Pelley asked Azmy: "Have you ever in your legal career run across anything like this?" Azmy responded: "In my legal career, no. But in Guantanamo, no detainee has ever been able to genuinely present evidence before a neutral judge. And so, as absurd as Murat Kurnaz's case is, I assure you there are many, many dozens just as tenuous."
Pelley’s only effort to present the other side came in a brief statement near the end of the segment:
We asked the Department of Defense to talk to us about Kurnaz. Instead, they sent us a statement, calling his allegations "unsubstantiated" and "outlandish," adding that claims that the US military "engaged in regular and systematic torture of detainees cannot withstand even the slightest scrutiny." The statement did not address why Kurnaz was held for five years.
Here is the full transcript of the segment:
7:23PM TEASER:
SCOTT PELLEY: At the age of 19, Murat Kurnaz vanished into America's shadow prison system in the war on terror.
MURAT KURNAZ: They used to beat me when my head is underwater. They beat me, they -- into my stomach and everything.
PELLEY: They were hitting you in the stomach while your head was under water...
KURNAZ: Yes, so...
PELLEY: ...So that you'd have to take a breath?
KURNAZ: Right.
PELLEY: What Kurnaz told us is a rare look into the clandestine system of justice where the government's own secret files reveal that an innocent man lost his liberty, his dignity, his identity, and ultimately five years of his life.
7:28PM SEGMENT:
SCOTT PELLEY: At the age of 19, Murat Kurnaz vanished into America's shadow prison system in the war on terror. He was from Germany, traveling in Pakistan and was picked up three months after 9/11. But there seemed to be ample evidence that Kurnaz was an innocent man with no connection to terrorism. The FBI thought so; US intelligence thought so. German intelligence agreed. But once he was picked up, Kurnaz found himself in a prison system that required no evidence and answered to no one. The story Kurnaz told us is a rare look inside that clandestine system of justice, where the government's own secret files reveal that an innocent man lost his liberty, his dignity, his identity, and ultimately, five years of his life. We found Murat Kurnaz in Bremen, Germany, where he was born and raised. His parents emigrated here from Turkey. His father works in the Mercedes factory. Kurnaz wasn't particularly religious growing up, but in 2001 he was marrying a Turkish girl who was, and he decided to learn more about Islam.
MURAT KURNAZ: I didn't know how to pray. I didn't know anything. So I had to study more about Islam so I could go to the mosque and pray.
PELLEY: In Bremen, he met Islamic missionaries who urged him to go to Pakistan for study. As he was planning the trip, 9/11 happened.
KURNAZ: It was horrible. It was...
PELLEY: He told us he was horrified by the attacks, had never heard of Al-Qaeda and he decided to go ahead with his trip anyway. Did you begin to think that that wasn't a great idea?
KURNAZ: Today, I know it wasn't a great idea.
PELLEY: Kurnaz told us his story using the English that he learned from his American guards. If he seems a little distant, reserved, you'll understand why as his story unfolds. It begins in 2001, when he was at the end of that trip to Pakistan. He was headed to the airport to fly home to Germany when his bus was stopped at a routine checkpoint.
KURNAZ: They stopped the bus, and because of my color, I am--I'm much more different than the Pakistani guys, so...
PELLEY: You're lighter skinned.
KURNAZ: Right. He looked in the -- he looked into the bus, he came to me to my window, and knocked on my window.
PELLEY: He was a Pakistani cop who's pulled Kurnaz off the bus. The reason Kurnaz was singled out may always be a mystery, but at the time, the US was paying bounties for suspicious foreigners. Kurnaz, who'd been rambling across Pakistan with Islamic pilgrims, seemed to fit the bill. Kurnaz says that he was told that US intelligence had paid $3,000 for him. He ended up bound and shackled on an American military plane.
KURNAZ: I was sure, as soon as they would find out I'm not a terrorist, they will -- they will apologize for it and let me go back home.
PELLEY: But the plane flew him out of Pakistan and to a US base in Kandahar, Afghanistan, where he was mixed with prisoners fresh off the battlefield. The military took this picture, as Murat Kurnaz disappeared into the system for terrorists. His new identity was "number 53." He was kept in an outdoor pen in subfreezing weather and interrogated daily.
KURNAZ: They asked me where is Osama Bin Laden, and if I am from Al-Qaeda or from Taliban, questions like that. And I told them I don't know where is Osama Bin Laden, I never saw him. And I don't know anything about Al-Qaeda, I don't know what it is. That I spent all my time in Pakistan.
PELLEY: What happened next?
KURNAZ: I told them just they can -- they can call Germany and ask who I am, and they can ask anybody in Germany who I am.
PELLEY: Back in Germany, Bremen police were investigating, and what they were hearing made matters worse. Kurnaz's worried mother told them that her son had recently become more religious, had grown a beard, and was attending a new mosque. Schoolmates said that Kurnaz might have been headed to Afghanistan.
BERNHARD DOCKE: It was just guessing, just a fear, no more. But the fear turned into a fact.
PELLEY: Attorney Bernhard Docke was hired by Kurnaz's mother. He says there was no reason to suspect Kurnaz knew anything about Al-Qaeda. But this was weeks after 9/11 and some of the hijackers had been living in Hamburg.
DOCKE: And so close after 9/11 and close after Germany realized that 9/11 started with the Hamburg cell in Germany, everybody in the secret services got crazy.
PELLEY: Docke says the police report was sent to the Americans, and Kurnaz claims his interrogations at Kandahar turned to torture. He told us that American troops held his head underwater.
KURNAZ: They used to beat me when my head is underwater. They beat me into my stomach and...
PELLEY: They were hitting you in the stomach while your head was underwater?
KURNAZ: Yes, so...
PELLEY: So that you'd have to take a breath?
KURNAZ: Right. I had to drink, I had to -- how you say...
PELLEY: Inhale. Inhale the water.
KURNAZ: I had to inhale the water, right.
PELLEY: Kurnaz says the Americans used a device to shock him with electricity that made his body go numb. And he says he was hoisted up on chains, suspended by his arms from the ceiling of an aircraft hangar for five days.
KURNAZ: Every five or six hours, they came and pulled me back down. And the doctor came to watch if I can still survive or not. He looked into my eyes, he checked my heart. And then he said, `OK.' Then they put me back up.
PELLEY: The point of the doctor's visit was not to treat you; it was to see if you could take another six hours hanging from the ceiling?
KURNAZ: Right.
PELLEY: I suspect that you know that the military will deny that this happened. The US military will deny that you were shocked. It will deny that your head was held in a bucket of water. It will deny that you hung from a ceiling for days at a time.
KURNAZ: It doesn't matter whatever they will say. The truth -- the truth will not change.
PELLEY: And you're telling me in this interview that this is the truth?
KURNAZ: This is the truth.
PELLEY: Kurnaz isn't alone in these allegations. Other freed prisoners have described electric shocks at Kandahar. And even US troops have admitted beating prisoners who were hanging by their arms. Kurnaz's story fits a pattern. After six weeks in Afghanistan, Kurnaz was loaded onto another plane, this time bound for Guantanamo. The Pentagon labeled the prisoners "unlawful enemy combatants." They didn't have the rights of prisoners of war and were beyond the reach of any court. At Guantanamo, Kurnaz says he endured endless months of interrogations, beatings at the hands of soldiers in riot gear and physical cruelty, which included going without sleep for weeks and solitary confinement for up to a month in cells that were sealed without ventilation or were set up to punish him with extreme conditions.
KURNAZ: It's dark inside, no lights. And they can punish you in isolation with -- by coldness or by the heat. They have a special air conditioners over there, very strong. They can turn it very, very cold or very hot.
PELLEY: He says it all went on, year after year, always the same questions about Al-Qaeda, and the endless effort to break his will. He heard nothing from the outside and wondered whether anyone knew he was there. Then, in 2004, the US Supreme Court ruled that Guantanamo prisoners did have the right to lawyers, and to his complete surprise, one day Kurnaz was told he had a visitor. It was Baher Azmy, an American lawyer. Tell me about your first meeting with Kurnaz.
BAHER AZMY: He was chained to a bolt in the floor around his ankle, and had an absolutely enormous beard that had marked the years that he was in detention. He looked like someone who had been shipwrecked, which, of course, in a sense, he really was.
PELLEY: Azmy is a professor of constitutional law at the Seton Hall Law School. He dug into Kurnaz's case and found that the military seemed to have invented some of the charges. Military prosecutors had said one of Kurnaz's friends was a suicide bomber, but the friend turned up alive and well in Germany. How could they have gotten that so wrong? I mean, you're either a suicide bomber or you're not; there's no in between.
AZMY: This goes to the utter preposterousness of the government's legal process that they established in Guantanamo, this tribunal system that was supposed to differentiate from enemy combatant and civilian. So, in order to justify that he was an enemy combatant, they simply made up an allegation about someone he was associated with.
PELLEY: But far worse than the false charges was the secret government file that Azmy uncovered. Six months after Kurnaz reached Guantanamo, US military intelligence had written this: "Criminal Investigation Task Force has no definite link or evidence of detainee having an association with Al-Qaeda or making any specific threat toward the US." At the same time, German intelligence agents wrote their government saying "USA considers Murat Kurnaz's innocence to be proven. He is to be released in approximately six to eight weeks." How long was Kurnaz kept at Guantanamo Bay after this memo in 2002?
AZMY: Three and a half years.
PELLEY: They kept him, Kurnaz says, by inventing new charges. In this makeshift courthouse, Kurnaz claims that a military judge charged that Kurnaz had been picked up near Osama Bin Laden's hideout in Afghanistan while fighting for the Taliban. Ironic, since it was the US that flew him to Afghanistan to begin with. Have you ever in your legal career run across anything like this?
AZMY: In my legal career, no. But in Guantanamo, no detainee has ever been able to genuinely present evidence before a neutral judge. And so, as absurd as Murat Kurnaz's case is, I assure you there are many, many dozens just as tenuous.
PELLEY: And a US federal judge agreed. She ruled the Guantanamo military tribunals violated the prisoners' right to a defense. And she singled out Kurnaz's case. We asked the Department of Defense to talk to us about Kurnaz. Instead, they sent us a statement, calling his allegations "unsubstantiated" and "outlandish," adding that claims that the US military "engaged in regular and systematic torture of detainees cannot withstand even the slightest scrutiny." The statement did not address why Kurnaz was held for five years. The break in Kurnaz's case came when the German chancellor asked President Bush for his release. In August 2006, a plane came to take Kurnaz home. On the way out, he told us he was asked to sign a confession that his captors had written for him, saying that he had been Al-Qaeda all along. He refused. On the plane, he was chained and surrounded by soldiers, but by the end of the flight, he was free. There's a picture of you hugging your mother. Tell me about that moment.
KURNAZ: She wouldn't let me go. She wouldn't let me, anymore. She just grabbed me. And, of course, she was so happy, she cried. And I would -- I would go to my father and my brothers, also. But she didn't let me. They had to wait.
PELLEY: He was 19 when he went in, 24 when he got out. His new wife had divorced him. Kurnaz has written a book just translated into English, called "Five Years of My Life." He told us he wanted to visit the United States one day, but he can't because the US still considers him to be an unlawful enemy combatant.
—Kyle Drennen is a news analyst at the Media Research Center.




















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Good ol' Gitmo...
March 31, 2008 - 15:48 ET by balboaGood ol' Gitmo...
As compared to Daniel Pearl's Treatment
March 31, 2008 - 15:53 ET by IgnatzJFahrquar"All generalizations are false, including this one.” Mark Twain
yea i saw that on "24"
March 31, 2008 - 15:56 ET by upcountrywater"And he says he was hoisted up on chains, suspended by his arms from the ceiling of an aircraft hangar for five days."
I thought it was in a chinese boat?
<gaia/love>SAVVVE The Whales N' Earth; conserve N' recycle !
IranianUranium<sleep>Infrastructure/repair?/ROFLMAO
That would be the place
March 31, 2008 - 16:05 ET by PeskyDaneThat would be the place where we are keeping our enemies off the battlefield. Yes, that is good. Bal, we agree. Welcome to the fold. Now you know how good patriotism feels.
And the five years it took
March 31, 2008 - 17:44 ET by balboaAnd the five years it took to figure out that this guy was innocent?
Would you have felt better
March 31, 2008 - 18:16 ET by zfWould you have felt better if it was twelve? Yes, when you're dealing with a group of people who will lie and do anything to be given a reprieve, proving innocence may be a bit hard and slow.
Anyway, just because he was "found" innocent, doesn't mean he was. (See O.J.) Also, I love how the report talks about the bad things that happened to his life outside of the prison, as if he never being detained would have meant him never having problems with his life.
Are they all lying? Are they
March 31, 2008 - 18:25 ET by balboaAre they all lying? Are they all really guilty but it just can't be proved?
Of course not bal, each and
March 31, 2008 - 18:33 ET by BlazerOf course not bal, each and every one of those fine upstanding member's of the human race and pillar's of thier communities wrongfully detained in Gitmo, will tell the truth each and every time. Only your fellow countrymen in the American Armed Forces will lie to you.
-sarc
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
No, of course not. Nazi's,
March 31, 2008 - 18:51 ET by zfNo, of course not. Nazi's, communists, terrorists and other totalitarian groups are well know for their adherence to the truth.
By the way, most of those found innocent and released have talked well about the captors and have said they are well treated. Media does not tell you about them, though.
The only ones who are lying are the ones claming horrendous abuse.
I'm sure however a guard or two has lost his temper or gotten annoyed of just having to see this scum and struck a prisoner or called him a vulgar word. They, unlike the captured, are only human. This does not equal widespread, habitual and organized torture.
So it is possible to
March 31, 2008 - 18:51 ET by balboaSo it is possible to mistakenly incarcerate an innocent person in Gitmo?
Key word being "found
March 31, 2008 - 18:58 ET by zfKey word being "found innocent." These are folks pulled off of the battle lines, are they "innocently" trying to kill our soldiers?
Is it possible for innocent people in prison not to be tortured, but tell folks they were for symphany, cash or political/ideological gain?
I'm sorry bal...
April 1, 2008 - 10:08 ET by WhoIsJohnGaltwe're fresh out of "perfection" flavor this generation. Can we interest you in some "best, honest efforts in the interest of preventing another 9/11"? Granted, it's not quite as aromatic as the rare "Utopia" blend, but then again, it doesn't stink quite as much as the less popular "WWII" variety either; much less rotting chunks of American bodies mixed throughout.
Human endeavors involve mistakes and attrition. Get over it and get on the side of those who are realistic about outcomes.
You won't win this one
April 1, 2008 - 22:58 ET by Angry AfricanBal,
You won't win this one. These warped arguments of - he is guilty until proven innocent. And then try to justify it because of what he might have done if he got older. Or how "they" treat us. Forgetting that "he" wasn't "they" to start off with.
But more importantly, they forget that we hold ourselves to a higher standard. I would rather compare myself to the best out there than the worse. My enemy have no morals? hey, no problem - I'll just give up my morals as well. My enemy have no freedom? Hey, no problem - I'll just give that up as well. My enemy tortures our people? No problem - I'll just do the same. My enemy jumping off the bridge? No problem - I'll just do the same. (My mother used to ask me that one when I was 5). I guess some people just need to grow up at some stage.
Catch 22. They spit. You spit back. It hits someone on the other side who didn't spit. So now they spit back. And hit another one next to you. So they spit back. and so on and so on. Just used the snowball effect to create two groups hating each other and no still problems solved - getting the guy who spat first.
Bal, you can't win this argument against these guys because they would rather be tortured than not torture the other side. It's a fine, fine world we live in.
Until someone who has been tortured tells me it is okay and that they liked it - I'll go for the no thank you part.
The problem. When you sleep with the pigs...
It really doesnt matter if
April 2, 2008 - 01:29 ET by Dan The Man 2It really doesnt matter if he is innocent or guilty, Im assuming he is guilty because he is lying about the torture part. What matters is he is lying about being tortured and how he was treated and the media and you AA are buying it. The rain falls on the just and the unjust alike meaning the innocent may be treated as the guilty if caught on teh battlefield.
Can you assume he is guilty and a terroist or a wanna be?
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Not his Kool-Aid
April 2, 2008 - 06:12 ET by Angry AfricanI'm not drinking his Kool-Aid. I hold no flag for this guy. He could well be guilty. The problem is that we have to prove that he is guilty somehow or else we no better than them.
Most civilians have the
March 31, 2008 - 21:20 ET by PeskyDaneMost civilians have the good sense to run away from a battlefield... unless you're looking to participate.
As I recall...
March 31, 2008 - 16:16 ET by Del DolemonteThe AQ training manuals all instruct their members to automatically accuse their captors of torturing them-whether they are tortured or not.
Since CBS has never ever been interested in giving our current President a fair shake on anything, I'm not going to waste my time on this latest BS. They've already been busted for using a false story to try and swing the 2004 election to his opponent, and also have been regularly busted for cooking their public opinion polls by oversampling Democrats, in order to achieve a predetermined result.
Goebbels would be proud of them. And Bill Paley is no doubt spinning in his grave.
"And Bill Paley is no doubt
April 1, 2008 - 09:46 ET by Hunter12"And Bill Paley is no doubt spinning in his grave."
In an effort to combat AGW, they have hooked a turbine to his feet and use the power generated to run the studio at 60 Minutes.
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill
good ol Gitmo, Balboa
March 31, 2008 - 19:33 ET by Gary HallI remember Senator Dianne Feinstein's (D) comments after a visit down in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba:
Corroboration?
March 31, 2008 - 15:52 ET by Gat New YorkSince it was right after the NCAA game I suffered through the segment.
I heard this detainee's story but did not hear any corroboration of his story by anyone?
Was there any corroboration or it that an irrelevant detail with people suffering from BDS?
Personally, I love
March 31, 2008 - 15:58 ET by Clear thinkerPersonally, I love Gitmo!
"Abstain from McCain"
Amazing, they don't have
March 31, 2008 - 15:59 ET by Gary P JacksonAmazing, they don't have time to show American heroes, and all of the stuff they do, but they have time to put on these people? I couldn't care less if they are tortured. For that matter, I wouldn't mind doing some of the torturing!
These aren't innocent people who were just standing on some street corner, minding their own business, that were scooped up "by accident"! These are ruthless murderers and torturers themselves. In any other country they would be executed! No trial, no judge, no jury, just executed.
The part that this idiot Pelley doesn't get, is given half a chance, this murderer would have slit his throat too!
Time to show American
March 31, 2008 - 18:17 ET by Seabeach4348Time to show American heroes? CBS? Are you kidding?
Funny how this Kurnaz guy can fling accusations at our military and gain instant media support, sympathy. and coverage. He can make up any torture story that he likes......just like the rest of his ilk have been trained to do.....and the stories are always the same as if they'd been coached. And right in the middle of an election year, how interesting.
If they really did torture him and they got some useful information out of him.....something that would save a grammar school full of kids from a lower life form posing as a homoside bomber....then it was a success.
How come we no longer hear about what Kurnaz's buddies did to Daniel Pearl and that other American (name escapes me) whose throat was slit before the eyes of the world thanks to Al Jezeera?
How many months were we subjected to the stories about Abu Graib?
Plus, how is this a
March 31, 2008 - 18:50 ET by zfPlus, how is this a "secret"? The networks always "knew" this is what was going on at Gitmo, anyway.
Media would sit on their hands if Pres was a Democrat..
March 31, 2008 - 19:41 ET by Gary HallSurely this man's tale has the potential for credibility. But so did BBC news reports of President Clinton being found guilty of war crimes against humanity by a Belgrade court.
The difference is that CBS wants the voters to hear one story - but not the other:
I saw the advertized
March 31, 2008 - 15:59 ET by bigtimerI saw the advertized segment last night, along with the other line-up 60 Minutes had and posted as such somewhere...these people never ever quit....the enemy within is hard at work to the end...of us all if they have their way.
Worry not..like I said last night...McCain will apologize, close Gitmo and all will be well.
Rest easy my friends....be a good little foot soldier.
Infuriated...that is me.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Hi, Bigtimer! My sentiments
March 31, 2008 - 16:06 ET by marpelHi, Bigtimer! My sentiments exactly. I posted in another article that I saw what was on 60 Minutes last night and thought "Here we go again..." regarding the subject matter of this piece of crap and the equally crappy piece on Al Gore, CBS's audacity never ceases to amaze me....
And you're right about McCain too...
bt... "...McCain will
March 31, 2008 - 16:07 ET by Clear thinkerbt...
"...McCain will apologize, close Gitmo and all will be well."
I cannot for the life of me understand his reasoning behind closing gitmo. For me, it's more proof that he has no business running this country.
"Abstain from McCain"
Ct...So prisoners will be
March 31, 2008 - 16:18 ET by bigtimerCt...So prisoners will be put into our judicial system and they will have a so-called fair trial..habeas corpus and all that jazz...I listened to him in the senate along with Little Lindsay and a few others...Graham had it right the first time, McCain twisted his arm to see it his way.
...too long to explain, I am messing it up...will look for a link later, I had one long ago....that was before I ever thought McCain would be the candidate.
This torture thing is right up McCain's aisle with his laws he has made too.
Btw...Ct...as far as I am concerned it is for votes with the leftists...when it comes right down to it all.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
bt... No worries. I know
March 31, 2008 - 16:25 ET by Clear thinkerbt...
No worries. I know what he said about gitmo and the reasons he gave, I just don't understand why he thinks that way.
Detainees have no business in our civil court system. And I'll be damned if we taxpayers should have to pay for their attorneys.
"Abstain from McCain"
Ct/McCains views regarding all of the laws during war re: enemy
March 31, 2008 - 16:44 ET by bigtimerCt...
I found it... that may not know how destructive McCain was every step of the way in the Senate against Pres. Bush regarding Gitmo, detention, interrogation, intelligence gathering...I watched for months, years of this man doing this bit by bit...
Nobody can ever tell me to vote for him, they really do not know him...I watched, I listened, I seethed.
....anyway..it all sums it up in nutshell perfectly...this is only a few minute read folks.
Anybody reading this now, I will have to fix later....which I will.
Okay, can't fix problem but here is the page, scroll down to the fourth or so article by Mark Levin on National Review Online...well worth it all.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Hey, bt
March 31, 2008 - 16:57 ET by Indiana JoeYour link just goes to the NB homepage.
Oops!
LOL
IJ and sarc...WOW is all I
March 31, 2008 - 17:32 ET by bigtimerIJ and sarc...WOW is all I can say...and LOL...you got me how this happened...nope same thing...I'll have to try later...I'm so mad.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Okay lets try this now...if
March 31, 2008 - 19:19 ET by bigtimerOkay lets try this now...if this google page comes up go down to Mark Levin National Review Online...it is about the fourth scroll on down...it is well worth the read.... sums it all up.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
Playbook
March 31, 2008 - 16:03 ET by SupermanReleased Gitmo detainees always say that they were tortured. They want to get sympathy and street cred. It's all part of their playbook.
Kurnaz Need Not Worry
March 31, 2008 - 16:57 ET by CaringwhiteguyPELLEY: ". . . . . He told us he wanted to visit the
United States one day, but he can't because the US still considers him
to be an unlawful enemy combatant."
Someone needs to tell Kurnaz to go from Germany to Mexico. Then all he needs to do is walk across the border anywhere from Tiajuana to Brownsville. Maybe CBS will give him a job. They'll probably even waive their background check. He's their kind of guy.
Blather Rather clone.
March 31, 2008 - 16:20 ET by ScrapironSo Can't Broadcast S*** (CBS) has found them another Blather Rather. Instead of firing this clown he should be tried, convicted and turned over to those he accuses for punishment. I for one would like to see him suffer the punishment he accuses Americans of inflicting on others. I'll be glad to help tie him up, or better yet turn him over to his friends in the terror camps. They can practice on him. Has CBS got a clue to as why most Americans take their network as a joke?
Old, Retired and glad of it.
Does CBS hate me?
March 31, 2008 - 16:24 ET by JWFMuch of his case is classified so the military does not issue much more than a statement of outrage.
So CBS gets in another smear on Bush, the military, Gitmo.
Cute, real cute.
When al-queda captures our
March 31, 2008 - 16:44 ET by mjgWhen al-queda captures our people do they give them any rights whatsoever. I wonder if CBS will do a show on the treatment given to our service members by al-queda, or any civilian they have captured, tortured than killed. Talk about onesidedness.
"Murat Kurnaz vanished into
March 31, 2008 - 16:53 ET by Chris Norman"Murat Kurnaz vanished into America's shadow prison system..."
I'm kind of surprised Pelley didn't work in the phrase "night and fog" for the total Hitler/Gestapo analogy...
They missed the important part!!
March 31, 2008 - 16:56 ET by w0tmCBS must have left on the cutting room floor the part about him having to dodge snipper fire.
LMAO
March 31, 2008 - 16:59 ET by Indiana JoeIf he had successfully dodged the "snipper" fire, he wouldn't be on the "cutting room floor!"
I know, a harmless typo, but it worked out as a great pun!
Major Reason
March 31, 2008 - 17:31 ET by somedaysI believe one reason AQ has not attacked Washington or New York again is that fear they might knock out their US press allies at CBS and NBC. Sorta like bombing al Jareeza (sp).
I'll have to agree here,
March 31, 2008 - 17:40 ET by BlazerI'll have to agree here, this a terrible, terrible case of misunderstanding. Robert Smith from The Cure is not and has never been a member of the Taliban or an unlawful enemy combatant.
"You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. We must be cautious. "
- Ben Kenobi on Liberals, and the MSM.
" The Cake is a lie."
I wonder if this piece of
March 31, 2008 - 18:24 ET by jcrapes4I wonder if this piece of crap was one of the inmates that rountinely told a friend of mine that when he got out of GITMO he would kill him. Or is he was one of the prisoners who made a mixture of semen. urine and feces then threw it at the prison guards at GITMO. Funny have not heard a single story about this from the MSM in the past 7 years. I wonder why???????:):)
The Gitmo Detainees Are the Worst of the Worst
March 31, 2008 - 19:35 ET by thoridflyDamn right ... the MSM isn't going to report the militancy, the evidence, and the facts that keep the Gitmo detainees in custody. They're not going to report the seething hatred, the death threats, and incidents like the feces throwing.
Of course not. Wasn't one
March 31, 2008 - 18:46 ET by Jack BauerOf course not. Wasn't one of his first hits "Killing an Arab"?
good one
April 2, 2008 - 14:34 ET by Angry AfricanGood one.
I know for a fact he was tortured
March 31, 2008 - 18:20 ET by Captain RepusI know for a fact this guy was tortured - I have seen the video on tv and on the internet. In fact, it was even worse than he describes - on the video he was dressed up in civilian clothes and the American interrogators were dressed up as Al Queda, and I saw them cut his head off while chanting some sort of patriotic motto that I didn't quite get. At least we had the decency to sew his head back on for the 60 Minutes interview.
I know for a fact he was tortured
March 31, 2008 - 18:20 ET by Captain RepusI know for a fact this guy was tortured - I have seen the video on tv and on the internet. In fact, it was even worse than he describes - on the video he was dressed up in civilian clothes and the American interrogators were dressed up as Al Queda, and I saw them cut his head off while chanting some sort of patriotic motto that I didn't quite get. At least we had the decency to sew his head back on for the 60 Minutes interview.
Murat Kurnaz Is a Media and Liberal Pawn
March 31, 2008 - 19:25 ET by thoridflyAll these things that allegedly happened to him don't happen to someone who maintains their "innocence". And the fact that he is an avowed Muslim means he believes the same things in the Koran that terrorist Muslims believe. He is NOT as innocent as Scott Pelley painted him to be.
This is just another 60 Minutes hit piece on the Bush Administration specifically designed to inspire more liberal hatred against the U.S. and George Bush.
At least three things kept him in custody for 5 years :
1. a hostile and arrogant attitude toward the people who handled him
2. association and comradery with proven terrorists
3. he expressed or displayed a hatred for the United States
Sorry, Buddy... Not Buying A Word of Your Schtick
March 31, 2008 - 20:48 ET by BondPlainBondI don't believe a word of this man's "story" and believe his book is a get-rich-quick scheme.
When he is found out and proven to be an opportunistic liar, will it be the end of CBS News? Hope so.
I can empathize with him...
March 31, 2008 - 21:13 ET by m4ster chief...for although I didn't suffer the physical trauma, I was unwittingly entrapped in a situation that resulted in tremendous mental torture and anguish for over nine years before finally getting a divorce.
I am a typical white person.
Ouch
March 31, 2008 - 23:55 ET by BlondeMe too.
Although it wasn't quite that long and tortuous.
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Hi Blonde...
April 1, 2008 - 15:24 ET by m4ster chieflol...I wasn't sure how the female readers would respond to my post.
I am an atypical white person.
Ah heck m4... Speaking
April 1, 2008 - 15:32 ET by bigtimerAh heck m4...
Speaking for the other half too...I think about half of all of us have been there done that...of both sexes...torture torture torture...lol.
"Never murder your opponent when he is committing suicide." ~ W. Churchill
I believe Murat Kurnaz is lying.
March 31, 2008 - 22:36 ET by R D HelmAnd the fact that CBS is the engine driving this "story" causes me disbelieve his story even further.
Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!
hatred
March 31, 2008 - 23:53 ET by Old EuropeShow me one muslim who doesn't hate the Jews or the US. Good luck finding them. Islam is a satanistic religious cult evolving around Mohammed(as if he were a saint) and his hatred for Jews and Christians. The Koran is Satan's bible and it constists of nothing but satanic verses with the intent of wiping out God's chosen people, i.e. the Jews..
And then Kurnaz happens to be innocent? More like they caught him before he did anything, or they couldn't find any evidence. When will people realise that Islam is a greater threat than Scientology and Tom Cruise?
Cmon, Pelley... what, no Iron Maiden?
April 1, 2008 - 08:00 ET by SickofLibsThis guy Pelley is an infinitely unlikable, truth twisting prick. He tries to come across like the tough, no holds barred reporter ala Mike Wallace, but he has none of ole Mike's humanizing aspects. Just the 100% pure unfiltered nasty Liberal part. His favorite interview technique is putting HIS words in other people's mouths. Pelley story = totally biased BS.
8 hours of "The Number of
April 1, 2008 - 10:21 ET by Hunter128 hours of "The Number of the Beast" cranked up high would have cracked him.
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill
Doesn't even pass the smell test
April 1, 2008 - 09:22 ET by Great DebaterWe know CBS doesn't verify claims that fit their preconceived notions, but couldn't they at least take a step back and ensure that they're even possible?
1) He said he was hung from his arms by chains for 5 days straight? Uh huh ... so essentially, he was being crucified? Then how is he not only alive, but also still able to move his arms? If true, he would have permanently and entirely lost the use of his arms after far less than 5 days.
2) He said he was hit in the stomach while his head was underwater ... to force him to take a breath while underwater. Uh huh ... problem with that is you don't inhale when hit in the stomach, you exhale (think Heimlick manuever).
That's TWO VERY OBVIOUS problems with his story that should have given CBS pause before running with it. But, I guess they figure their viewers will probably be too incensed with the government to pick up on them, plus it'll help with advertisers and Emmy voters, so what the hey.
Let's get the European take on this guy.
April 1, 2008 - 09:58 ET by Hunter12"SCOTT PELLEY: At the age of 19, Murat Kurnaz vanished into America's shadow prison system in the war on terror. He was from Germany, traveling in Pakistan and was picked up three months after 9/11. But there seemed to be ample evidence that Kurnaz was an innocent man with no connection to terrorism. The FBI thought so; US intelligence thought so. German intelligence agreed (really?)."
Skip down to "The classification of Murat Kurnaz as a security risk was based on the following findings, among others:"
I guess Scott doesn't realize his story may have a few holes. Kurnaz ain't that innocent.
"An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Sir Winston Churchill