On Sunday’s CBS "60 Minutes," anchor Scott Pelley, who referred to Iranian President Ahmadinejad as "friendly," "modest," and "incorruptible," compared American forces in Iraq to barbarian hordes of the past while examining the plight of Iraqi Christians since the war began in 2003: "The Iraqi Christian community, which had survived invasions by Mongols and Turks, was driven out under American occupation."
During the segment, Pelley interviewed an Anglican Reverend in Baghdad named Andrew White:
PELLEY: He was first sent to Baghdad by the Archbishop of Canterbury nine years ago, well before the Christian persecution. You were here during Saddam's reign, and now after. Which was better? Which was worse?
WHITE: Well, it's difficult to describe. The situation now is clearly worse now, but --
PELLEY: Worse than Saddam?
WHITE: Oh, far. There's no comparison between Iraq now and then. Things are the most difficult they have ever been for Christians. Probably ever in history. They've never known it like now.
PELLEY: Wait a minute. Christians have been here for 2,000 years.
WHITE: Yes. And it's now the worst it has ever been.
It would seem that Reverend White longs for the days of Saddam’s brutal regime based upon this interview. However, in February 2006, White expressed his complete thoughts in an interview with PBS:
We work very closely with the American government, and I think the American government is doing a good job. But the American government is no longer in control of Iraq. It's actually the Iraqi government that's in control of Iraq. I think that the evil regime of Saddam Hussein certainly needed removing, and there was no way that that could be done by the Iraqi people and fortunately, I would say, even in the difficulties we're now facing, the Americans came to the rescue of the Iraqi people. I must say, seeing the news in the U.S.A., it's very difficult to get a real assessment of what is actually going on, while at the same time we've got to realize that covering news in Iraq has become increasingly difficult. We've got a journalist at the moment who has been kidnapped, and this is the very real risk for those who've tried to get the real story across. I think we need to tell the story about how the restoration of Iraq is taking place despite the difficulties, and that it's not totally all chaos. Chaos and bloodshed are a very big part of what's going on, but it's not the total story.
Strangely, Pelley did not get that in-depth with White, cutting the Reverend off in mid-sentence.
Pelley went on to describe Saddam’s religious diversity:
...under Saddam, Christians were treated much the same as Muslims. Saddam's right-hand man, Tariq Aziz, was Christian. This is the last Christmas in Baghdad before the war. It's estimated there were about a million Christians in Iraq, a small minority, but free to worship, free to build churches...
But then, as Pelley describes, America came in and brought an end to such tolerance: "But after the invasion, Muslim militants launched a war on each other and the cross."
Near the end of the segment, Pelley spoke of the "exodus" from Iraq of Christians as well as other refugees:
Christian refugees are now swept up in an exodus of historic proportions. The U.N. estimates 4.5 million Iraqis of all faiths are running from the war. The United States has promised to help, but so far, only about 2,000 Iraqis have been allowed into the U.S.-- Less than one tenth of one percent of all the refugees.
However, there was no mention of the recent return of thousands of Iraqi refugees to Baghdad, as was detailed in a November Associated Press story: "In a dramatic turnaround, more than 3,000 Iraqi families driven out of their Baghdad neighborhoods have returned to their homes in the past three months as sectarian violence has dropped, the government said Saturday."
Despite the recent success of the troop surge, some in the mainstream media like Pelley, still look for bad news. In fact, earlier on Sunday, at the end of CBS’s "Face the Nation," host Bob Schieffer exclaimed, "we shouldn't be rolling out the "Mission Accomplished" banner again in Iraq, at least not just yet."
Here is the full transcript of the "60 Minutes"segment:
7:00PM TEASER:
SCOTT PELLEY: From the time of Jesus, there have been Christians in what is now Iraq. But today, this ancient community is suffering persecution on a biblical scale, hunted, murdered, and forced to worship in secret services like this. You were here during Saddam's reign and now after. Which was better? Which was worse?
ANDREW WHITE: There's no comparison between Iraq now and then. Things are the most difficult they have ever been for Christians.
PELLEY: Wait a minute! Christians have been here for 2,000 years.
WHITE: Yes, and it's now the worst it has ever been.
7:02PM SEGMENT:
SCOTT PELLEY: From the time of Jesus, there have been Christians in what is now Iraq. The Christian community took root there after the Apostle Thomas headed east in the year 35. But now, after nearly 2,000 years, Iraqi Christians are being hunted, murdered, and forced to flee, persecuted on a biblical scale in Iraq's religious civil war. You'd have to be mad to hold a Christian service in Iraq today, but if you must, then the Vicar of Baghdad is your man. He's the Reverend Canon Andrew White, an Anglican priest who suffers from multiple sclerosis and from a fanatical determination to save the last Iraqi Christians from the purge.
ANDREW WHITE: ...The Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Amen.
PELLEY: This is an underground church service in Baghdad.
WHITE: Drink this, all of you, for this is my blood of the new covenant.
PELLEY: Andrew White's parishioners are risking their lives to celebrate their faith. The room is full of children, it's full of women, but I don't see the men. Where are they?
WHITE: They are mainly killed. Some were kidnapped. Some were killed. In the last six months, things have got particularly bad for the Christians. And here in this church, all of my leadership were originally taken and killed.
PELLEY: All dead.
WHITE: All dead. But we never got their bodies back. This is one of the problems. I regularly do funerals here, but it's not easy to get the bodies.
PELLEY: Their churches are destroyed or abandoned. The congregation is smuggled in and out of this secret sanctuary. Even letting us come here was a terrible risk. White is among the last Christian ministers here, a savior with crosses to bear. Larger than life, stricken with M.S., And by his own reckoning, driven a little bit mad. He was first sent to Baghdad by the Archbishop of Canterbury nine years ago, well before the Christian persecution. You were here during Saddam's reign, and now after. Which was better? Which was worse?
WHITE: Well, it's difficult to describe. The situation now is clearly worse now, but -- .
PELLEY: Worse than Saddam?
WHITE: Oh, far. There's no comparison between Iraq now and then. Things are the most difficult they have ever been for Christians. Probably ever in history. They've never known it like now.
PELLEY: Wait a minute. Christians have been here for 2,000 years.
WHITE: Yes. And it's now the worst it has ever been.
PELLEY: To understand the history of Iraqi Christianity, start with the last supper. One saint to the right of Jesus is the Apostle Thomas, who took the gospel and headed east after the death of Christ. In modern times, under Saddam, Christians were treated much the same as Muslims. Saddam's right-hand man, Tariq Aziz, was Christian. This is the last Christmas in Baghdad before the war. It's estimated there were about a million Christians in Iraq, a small minority, but free to worship, free to build churches, free to speak the ancient words you're hearing now...
( UNIDENTIFIED WORSHIPERS SPEAKING ARAMAIC )
PELLEY: Aramaic, the language of Jesus. But after the invasion, Muslim militants launched a war on each other and the cross. Sunday, August 1, 2004, five churches were bombed. The Iraqi Christian community, which had survived invasions by Mongols and Turks, was driven out under American occupation. No one can be sure, but Reverend White estimates most of Iraq's Christians have fled or been killed. Those still here are too old, too ill, or too poor to run. Why are you feeding them all?
WHITE: Because this is the only decent meal they'll have in the week, because they can't afford food. So we're just moving from every other week to every week because they've got nothing.
PELLEY: Nothing. For many, not even their families. We were confronted with one of many stories of depravity as the congregation left. Outside the church service, this gentleman put these pictures in my hand. I can't show you the pictures. They're just too much. But they're pictures of his children. His daughter, who was 15 years old, and his son, who was about four years old. They've both been shot in the head. His children were killed, the father said, because he ran a liquor store. Liquor stores are typically Christian businesses here-- legal, except under the Islamic street justice that rules since the invasion.
WHITE: So I hear stories of shootings, death, torturing, kidnapping, mutilation. I hear it all.
PELLEY: The people with those stories once lived in a neighborhood called Dora, where Christians, Sunnis, and Shiites had lived together. We wanted to see what happened there, so we took a ride with Army Colonel Rick Gibbs. His men picked us up under a rusting relic of Saddam's tyranny and we headed to ethnic cleansing's ground zero.
GIBBS: We have 13 churches, none of them are operational.
PELLEY: Is it the worst neighborhood in town?
GIBBS: It's the toughest neighborhood in town.
PELLEY: Gibbs commands the Fourth Brigade, First Infantry Division out of Fort Riley, Kansas. In Dora, he set up a combat outpost in an abandoned Catholic seminary. I was at a secret church service yesterday. A man came up to me and handed me some photographs of his children and they'd been shot to death. Somebody had come by their house and murdered his children because they were Christians.
GIBBS: Right.
PELLEY: What are you seeing?
GIBBS: I don't see a lot of that anymore. But when we first arrived, we saw lots of that. And we had 500 a month, that's what we were tracking. And it would not surprise my soldiers to walk down a street on a patrol and see three or four bodies laying in the street with a bullet behind their head.
PELLEY: U.S. Forces do not protect the churches. There's a hands-off policy for all religious sites. And Gibbs says there's another reason.
GIBBS: The Christians do not want us to guard the church openly.
PELLEY: Why wouldn't the Christians want you to protect the churches?
GIBBS: They feel that if we are overtly protecting the churches, that someone underground covertly will come in and murder the Christians because they're collaborating with the U.S. forces.
PELLEY: There seems to be less violence now, in part because of the surge, but also because the purge of Christians from Dora is largely complete. Gibbs says that Islamic militants are on the run now.
GIBBS: We hear that through our intelligence sources on-the- ground, people telling us they're running. That's how come we knew to come down here with our next big fight to keep getting after them. And that's what you hear over there is us in that fight trying to go get them.
PELLEY: We wanted to see one church that had been destroyed, but Gibbs couldn't take us there. Roadside bombs blocked the way. So he walked us over to a church next to his combat outpost. Because of the proximity, it hadn't been looted. It hadn't been touched by anyone for a very long time. This is one of the abandoned churches of Dora. It looks like it was left suddenly and completely. There's a fine coat of dust over everything in the church. It was all left just as it was. One of the reasons these churches have been abandoned is in this letter, a letter that went out to the neighborhoods of Dora about a year ago. It reads like this: To the Christian. We would like to inform you of the decision of the legal court of the Secret Islamic Army to notify you that this is the last and final threat. If you do not leave your home, your blood will be spilled. And in case there was any chance that anyone would not get the message, the letter ends like this: You and your family will be killed. Tell me what happened to your family.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Well, that's a long story.
PELLEY: This young man is a Baghdad Christian whose name we cannot use. He says that, after the invasion, posters appeared near his home.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: They were, like, telling us that Christians were against Islam, they we're infidels, that women shouldn't drive, and a woman who doesn't wear a scarf will get her head cut off. And I thought that, like, what are we going back to the Middle Ages?
PELLEY: He told us that his family began going to mass in shifts. Why?
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: If the church gets bombed on, like, one of the masses so, like, half of the family will be there and half will be safe.
PELLEY: Ultimately, his church was bombed. Of all the people that you used to worship with in that church, what's become of them?
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I simply don't know. A lot them are in Syria. Some of them -- I don't know any of them that stayed in Baghdad.
PELLEY: His family, unharmed, fled to neighboring Jordan. But most Christians ran north to Syria, where they have filled a ghetto called Jerimanah. Knock on any door and you'll find a story.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN ( Translated ): They threatened this young girl. They want her to become a Muslim. The boy is in danger of being kidnapped. My other boy is in danger of being kidnapped because we're Christians.
PELLEY: This woman was on a bus outside Baghdad when gunmen boarded and demanded to know her husband's faith.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN B ( Translated ): They told him, How come you have not embraced Islam yet? He said, to each his own religion.
UNIDENTIFIED BOY ( Translated ): He told them, I am a Christian. They told him to get off the bus.
PELLEY: And they never saw him again. Christian refugees are now swept up in an exodus of historic proportions. The U.N. estimates 4.5 million Iraqis of all faiths are running from the war. The United States has promised to help, but so far, only about 2,000 Iraqis have been allowed into the U.S.-- Less than one tenth of one percent of all the refugees. Those who remain, hiding in Iraq, are bound together by a particular kind of faith known only to those under siege. Why is this happening?
WHITE: It's happening because religion has gone wrong, and when religion goes wrong, it kills others.
PELLEY: The Muslim religion has gone wrong. Is what you're saying?
WHITE: It has. And in the past, Christianity has gone wrong. And what I say to people very clearly is that the history of Christianity is no better than the history of Islam.
PELLEY: Some of your parishioners must ask you, why is God allowing this to happen to us?
WHITE: To them I say, God is with you, and he is with me, and I'm with you, and I'm not going away.
—Kyle Drennen is a news analyst at the Media Research Center.















Comments Policy
I usually do not watch 60
December 3, 2007 - 15:27 ET by bigtimerI usually do not watch 60 Minutes at all....haven't for years with a few exceptions....for some reason it was on the channel last night and I saw this segment and just seethed at Pelley and this guy White....
Great digging you did there Kyle with the PBS interview....mighty big difference isn't there?
So Mr. White...which version is the truth?
CBS does this all the time...this is more than despicable for me though....anything to still attempt to hurt our magnificent military and the excellent progress they have made....along with a President that has stood steadfast when it comes to fighting the terrorists.
I am sick and tired of this obvious agenda of the looney leftists....sick to death of it all.
Enemy within indeed.
Pelley is incorrect
December 3, 2007 - 16:36 ET by PShannonI suppose it doesn't matter to Pelley that Christians are in Iraq and more are returning all the time.
http://www.mnf-iraq.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=15315&Itemid=1
Besides, it was the Muslim on Muslim violence that drove the Christians out, not the Americans.
PS... Bingo!
December 3, 2007 - 16:39 ET by bigtimerPS...
Bingo!
If you bend-over backwards
December 3, 2007 - 15:31 ET by drillanwrIf you bend-over backwards enough your head gets firmly planted up your a$$ ...
I saw this last night and my
December 3, 2007 - 15:45 ET by PeskyDaneI saw this last night and my immediate thought was, "since when do these people give a rip about the plight of christians?"
Wait just a minute!! He
December 3, 2007 - 15:46 ET by ConservativeRexWait just a minute!! He said he interviewed a Christian! The church of England stopped being Christian a looonnggg time ago. I think he's trying to pull the wool over our eyes..in a manner of speaking.
The usual spin
December 3, 2007 - 15:46 ET by mvfreemanIt's obvious that sectarian violence has filled the power vacuum left by the removal of Saddam and the war. So in that regard it is worse for everyone in Iraq, not just christians.
They never seem to mention that it was Saddam's cruel iron fist that kept order in pre-invasion Iraq.
And as you mentioned there was a recent story of refugees returning to Iraq. Lies by omission seems to be a common tactic in the MSM.
"They never seem to mention
December 3, 2007 - 15:49 ET by MightyMouth"They never seem to mention that it was Saddam's cruel iron fist that kept order in pre-invasion Iraq."
So? Does that mean the Iraqis shouldn't have a chance at the possiblility of freedom? I mean really, what's the point of bringing that up?
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Context?
December 3, 2007 - 16:01 ET by mvfreemanAs in why there were no full blown sectarian clashes while Saddam was in power. He would kill any and all trouble makers without hesitation. Which would be in stark contrast to what the current Iraqi government and our troops are doing. We aren't in the habit of killing people with no questions asked and try to uphold a rule of law, not our own arbitrary ones as Saddam did.
Your "Context" is misleading...
December 3, 2007 - 16:11 ET by MightyMouth"It's obvious that sectarian violence has filled the power vacuum left by the removal of Saddam"
That statement is FALSE! The power vacum has been filled by the United States Military and the Iraqi elected governments troops. (for the most part). Transitions like this take time and hard work. Stop bitichin about how long it's taking and tell your commrads in the democratic party to stop fighting progress every chance they get. You guys aren't helping!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Here we go again...
December 3, 2007 - 16:28 ET by mvfreemanFirst you say the statement is false and then you qualify your own with "for the most part". We and the Iraqis are in the process of filling that vacuum and I never said that we weren't trying nor that it was easy.
Second, in no way did I "bitch" about anything other than how the MSM is portraying the situation as our fault.
Third, I am not a member of the democratic party nor do I consider myself liberal.
So why don't you take a chill pill, read what people are actually writing and stop assuming you know me or can somehow deduce what my political philosophy is because you are horribly off base.
Chillin'...
December 3, 2007 - 16:40 ET by MightyMouth"It's obvious that sectarian violence has filled the power vacuum left
by the removal of Saddam and the war. So in that regard it is worse for
everyone in Iraq, not just christians."
FALSE! Like I said, the power vacum has been filled. You are wrong in this regard.
Sounds like bitchin to me. There is plenty of lawlessnes still (my qualification) But hey, there is plenty lawlessness here in the US too.
Not a liberal? You know I don't usually jump the gun on an assement like that, but you and I have knocked other topics around and I have a shock for you: you are pretty liberal :-)
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Sigh...
December 3, 2007 - 16:55 ET by mvfreemanFrom your perspective I suppose that could be true. From people who actually know me...not really.
And if the power vacuum was completely filled we wouldn't be having trouble with the Kurds causing problems with Turkey.
Apparantly the Kurds have
December 3, 2007 - 17:03 ET by MightyMouthApparantly the Kurds have some grievances with Turkey. Didn't Saddam himself have problems with them? Don't see how the Kurds prove a "power vacum".
Anyhow, my point to you is that this "power vacum" talk is misleading and detrimental. Thats it.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
The Usual Spin
December 3, 2007 - 17:39 ET by MightyMouthYou know, after re-reading the subject of your first post. I guess your entire post could have been referring to "spin". If that's what you meant then I apologize for jumping to my conclusion. I don't know why it took so long for me to see that :-) ...uh...nevermind?
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
It's all good.
December 3, 2007 - 18:47 ET by mvfreemanLet me show you something:
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p14/mvfreeman/commisioningweek108.jpg
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p14/mvfreeman/commisioningweek032.jpg
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p14/mvfreeman/Lawson-OGB.jpg
Those are pics of my wife and I and the young man who calls us mom and dad.He is at this very moment in the persian gulf helping to make the situation over there work.
I would never say or do anything to undermine his position there.
I want things to get better ASAP for his safety as well as all the other troops over there.
It's just taking longer than anticipated.
I have a brother there
December 3, 2007 - 18:53 ET by MightyMouthI have a brother there myself. Cheers! May they both come home safe!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Hi MM... Don't mean to
December 3, 2007 - 18:59 ET by bigtimerHi MM...
Don't mean to interrupt here but....(lol)
I asked you awhile back how he was doing, you may have answered me I have been in and out now and then, but at least now I know he is okay.
May they all come home safely as soon as possible.
I thank each and everyone of them.
Hey bt, no interuption
December 3, 2007 - 20:40 ET by MightyMouthHe's doing good. He sent me a big ole picture of him shaking BOR's hand. He was here for a two week leave about two months ago but I didn't get to see as much of him as I would have liked.
btw he is in Bagram Airbase in Afghanastan!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Thanks MM... Bet he has
December 3, 2007 - 21:06 ET by bigtimerThanks MM...
Bet he has good pictures for years of memories with BOR, let alone Afghanistan, the war and loads of stories to share.
Please convey my thanks kind sir....may he speed home safely.
cheers!
December 3, 2007 - 19:04 ET by mvfreemanUnfortunately I was arguing on the internet instead of working so it will be a little while before I get to that first beer.
Having spent a year on the
December 3, 2007 - 16:34 ET by kdoliverHaving spent a year on the ground over there during 04-05, I have agree that the sectarian violence did fill a void. That is not to say that US Military has not worked to fill the void (and we have). I did not see anything critical in the remarks. Saddam killed any trouble maker--very similar to Tito.
http://thelazytriathlete.blogspot.com/
His statement is that the
December 3, 2007 - 16:44 ET by MightyMouthHis statement is that the Vacum still exists. He didn't say there "was a power vacum." He is saying there still is a vacum. He is wrong. There may still be violence but there is not a power vacum. The US and Iraqi governments are undeniably in power.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
Maybe this is just arguing semantics...
December 3, 2007 - 17:17 ET by mvfreeman..but at this time we are not undeniably in control of the whole of the country.
With freedom comes the ability for certain factions to do their own thing, which may or may not be what we would like for them to do. Hence the Kurds or other groups. Balkinazation is troublesome.
Yes probably semantics....
December 3, 2007 - 17:24 ET by MightyMouth"..but at this time we are not undeniably in control of the whole of the country."
The same could be said by the LAPD about "South LA". So by your definition there is a Power vacum in LA. :-)
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
I've heard that analogy before...
December 3, 2007 - 17:40 ET by mvfreemanBut I was referring to political control. The crooks in south LA dont care who the politicians are, they aren't politically motivated. The bad guys in Iraq are.
That is why our military is working hard to get the local tribal chiefs to align themselves with us. And it is working but the trick is to keep them from switching their loyalties, which unforrtunately has happened in some instances.
Gangs, there are gangs in
December 3, 2007 - 17:42 ET by MightyMouthGangs, there are gangs in LA. That's political just like the "tribes" in Iraq. The cops don't have complete control over the gangs. Much like in Iraq. Yes?
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
not exactly
December 3, 2007 - 17:59 ET by mvfreemanThe gangs here are criminal in nature. Their only motivation is making money illegally. The "gangs" in Iraq are headed by an elder of the community or clergy and their motivation doesn't stem from flouting the law for monetary gain.
It is an ideological battle ( as most commanders in Iraq say), the lowlifes here aren't interested in any ideology except "gimme your mother****** wallet!!"
The other thing is that gangs here are part of a subculture. They don't affect our political outlook. The tribes in Iraq and Afghanistan are mainstream culture and the head was the local political leader.
While that is true, it
December 3, 2007 - 18:00 ET by MightyMouthWhile that is true, it doesn't change the fact that there is violence. Which is what we are talking about here.
To me it doesn't matter what the ideology of the killer is, what matters is the taking of life (and stopping it). That taking of life is being done here in the US as well as Iraq. As a matter of fact it may be eaiser to control violence in Iraq than here. You can probably bust down 10 doors there in the same time it takes you to get a warrant for one door here.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
"As a matter of fact it may
December 3, 2007 - 18:24 ET by mvfreeman"As a matter of fact it may be eaiser to control violence in Iraq than here."
The problem is that most of the trouble makers here don't have a death wish, they want to have their cake and eat it too. The warped motivations and willingness to die some of the folks have over there makes it harder to combat the violence. Criminals here don't want to be caught. Over there they don't want to be caught alive. And they are celebrated by some when they do those heinous acts. That is not the case here.
I would much rather live in Detroit than there because here you can sort of profile the thugs. Over there it can be anybody who is exploding themselves in the car next to you.
And they are celebrated by
December 3, 2007 - 18:37 ET by MightyMouthAnd they are celebrated by some when they do those heinous acts. That is not the case here.
Sorry but that happens here too. Some gangs require a killing of a rival to be admitted to the inner circle of the gang.
I will admit that the differences are obvious, but they don't amount to a "Power Vacum". Lawlessnes yes, power vacum no. If you can agree with that then we can probably let it rest. :-)
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
relax, MM, Pelley was only giving an interview.
December 4, 2007 - 00:14 ET by professor truthUnfortunately, MM, the dems are fighting progress by not forcing an immediate withdrawal from this failed quagmire.
You are wrong on this, a
December 4, 2007 - 22:06 ET by MightyMouthYou are wrong on this, a forced withdrawal is a defeat of the worst kind.
When was the first time you ever heard the word "quagmire"? Probably as a description of Vietnam?
Iraq is NOT Vietnam. Wake up and stop talking about foolish withdrawals.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
MM quagmire?
December 4, 2007 - 22:13 ET by botgwasn't that Chappaquidik?
"everytime you take a shower you are a mass murder" -- the Profff
Witnesses at Saddams'
December 3, 2007 - 18:44 ET by IamTinmanWitnesses at Saddams' trial testified that he destroyed both christian and kurdish muslim villages as well as villages where both groups lived in peace. No people including christians were safe under his brutal regime.
AAAAGGGHHH !!!!!
December 3, 2007 - 15:52 ET by MrShyThe MSM is digging up everything it possibly can to smear our efforts and continued success in Iraq and the GWOT. Unreal....
Meanwhile, CNN tries desperately to avoid any reference to Islam -- and succeeds in avoiding, completely, "radical Islam" -- in that awful story of the British woman being punished in the Sudan. Headline reads (and I am not making this up):
Teddy bear teacher leaves Sudan
Awwww, isn't that cute? Teddy bear teacher leaves Sudan. That pretty much sums it up. No need to even click on it and read the article. OH, but if you do, you get paragraphs like this:
A British teacher convicted of insulting religion in Sudan by allowing her students to name a teddy bear "Mohammed" has left Khartoum on a flight home, the British Foreign Office said Monday.
Yup, she insulted, oh I don't know, some "religion"... whatever, but the point is she's now free and will not be executed or lashed 40 times due to some offense people of a certain "religion" took.
The efforts to secure her release were complicated by pressure from Sudanese hard-liners for her to complete her 15-day sentence. Some protesters called for her execution.
Hmmm, who are these "hard-liners"? Hard-liners of what? Huh, oh well, whatever. Cute article.
Dana Perino and Newsbusters gals* will look great in Shywear!
(*shirts for guys, too)
MrShy
December 3, 2007 - 15:53 ET by drillanwrYou "reading between the lines" again?
Pulling back that MSM wizardly "curtain" ?
If I had a dog, I would name
December 3, 2007 - 16:05 ET by PeskyDaneIf I had a dog, I would name it "Mohammed."
Or a pig ... Flog me
December 3, 2007 - 16:10 ET by drillanwrOr a pig ...
Flog me ...
aarrggggghhhh!!!!!!!!!!!
December 3, 2007 - 15:55 ET by candance*shuts eyes and breathes slowly to keep head from exploding*
No, it couldn't be Al Qaeda In Iraq stirring up religious bickering to divide the country. It's America's fault. How could I have been so stupid as to think Abu Musab Al-Zarqawi didn't want Christians to be happy?
Thanks for nothing MSM. Why don't you go cover real Christian persecution?
The most dangerous thing in the world is an angry person with political power.
candance
December 3, 2007 - 16:09 ET by MrShyI know, it's amazing... and you're right, they pin this drummed-up crisis (because much of it is, as they ARE returning to their country, by the latest reports) on U.S. soldiers.
Funny, we both posted "aaaagggh/aaarrrgg's" :p (see above)
Dana Perino and Newsbusters gals* will look great in Shywear!
(*shirts for guys, too)
Thanks for nothing MSM. Why don't you go cover real Christian...
December 3, 2007 - 17:02 ET by vrwc13Thanks for nothing MSM. Why don't you go cover real Christian persecution?
You mean like in Saudi, Iran, Lebanon, Sudan, Indonesia, China, North Korea, Russia, and our own public schools? (did I miss any?) ...
Nations where Christians are frequently persecuted include…
Afghanistan
Cyprus
Maldives
Sri Lanka
Algeria
Egypt
Mauritania
Sudan
Azerbaijan
Equatorial Guinea
Morocco
Syria
Bangladesh
Ethiopia
Myanmar (Burma)
Tajikistan
Bhutan
India
Nepal
Tibet (China)
Brunei
Indonesia
Nigeria
Tunisia
Chechnya
Iran
North Korea
Turkey
Chiapas
Iraq
Oman
Turkmenistan
China
Kuwait
Pakistan
United Arab Emirates
Colombia
Laos
Qatar
Uzbekistan
Comoro Islands
Libya
Saudi Arabia
Vietnam
Cuba
Malaysia
Somalia
Yemen
...just a few.
v
"...the history of
December 3, 2007 - 15:58 ET by mattm"...the history of Christianity is no better than the history of Islam." This, from an Anglican minister?
People have committed great evil in the name of one religion or another, but in Christianity things like murder, oppression etc. are considered sinful, whereas in Islam these things are commandments as long as the victims are either infidels or women. For this guy to equate the two is despicable.
Jesus equates us all as
December 3, 2007 - 16:53 ET by TruthMongerJesus equates us all as "sinners" - I like that approach - lest we Christians get too high and mighty...
These Iraqi Christians are worse off now?!?!?!?
Blessed SOB's anyway:
THE EIGHT BEATITUDES OF JESUS
"Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek,
for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be satisfied.
Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure of heart,
for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called children of God.
Blessed are they who are persecuted for the sake of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
Gospel of Matthew 5:3-10
Yeah, but...
December 3, 2007 - 17:48 ET by HermanoChristians have their sins, as well. I have for many years believed that the Muslim religion is about 600 years behind in development from Christianity. We had our Crusades, they have their "kill all the infidels." It doesn't make it right on either side, but the Christians are beyond killing the nonbelievers. And I agree - for a Christian to equate the two religions is despicable, in spite of the common lineage.
I see that comment all the
December 3, 2007 - 18:46 ET by buddycI see that comment all the time and would you request you support it with facts. Mao killed millions in China. Hitler killed millions in WWII. Stalin killed tens of millions in Russia. Religious killings are NOTHING compared to Mao, Pol Pot, and Stalin, communists all. Wealth redistribuition nuts like liberals have killed over history a thousand times the number killed in the name of religion.
the thing is The Crusades
December 4, 2007 - 00:41 ET by red_dragon311the thing is The Crusades ends hundereds of years ago, and people in the middle east still think they are going on fighting Richard the Lion Hearted
Moral obfuscation
December 3, 2007 - 16:08 ET by KC MulvilleSuppose a terrorist puts a gun to someone’s head, and promises that he’ll kill the hostage unless you pay him a million dollars. You say that you don’t have a million dollars, so the terrorist kills the hostage. Is it your fault? No. Who bears moral responsibility? Of course, the terrorist is to blame. Do you “share” any responsibility? No. The damage that comes from the war is the moral responsibility of the party that caused it in the first place.
Here, 60 Minutes is suggesting that the oppression of Iraqi Christians is something for which Americans share responsibility. To argue that we share responsibility for the plight of the Iraqi Christians is to say that we share responsibility for the war as a whole. In other words, this is just another way of accusing Bush of starting an “elective” war.
But the cynicism is really evident when they use Iraqi Christians as the vehicle for making their backhanded accusation. They want to smash their accusation into Christians’ faces.
They must not have seen this...
December 3, 2007 - 16:09 ET by mvfreemanhttp://gallery.michaelyon-online.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=134
Using Iraqi Christians for spin
December 3, 2007 - 19:28 ET by nkviking75Scott, in case you hadn't noticed, a lot of radical Muslims have tried to assert control in Iraq. Being the kind of people they are, they naturally would persecute Christians, given the chance. Even so, I doubt the Christians would want to return to the "stability" under Saddam.
The MSM has barely acknowledged the existence of Iraqi Christian and has not seemed interested in the persecution perpetrated by radical Islamofacists. But if you can spin it so you can use it to stick it to America, then it's news.
When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.
Wiping out Christians is bad?
December 3, 2007 - 21:16 ET by Lame CherryPelley is confusing in he laments a few million Iraqi Christians being wiped out of Iraq...........but as I recall in history since 1960 when his liberal comrades initiated removing the Christian God, instituting aborticide, sexual soul rape, dope and "Democrat policy", there have been more children butchered from aborticide by American Pelley in the United States than all the Iraqi Christians.
So this is all confusing as Pelley promotes policy which has wiped 100 million Christians from the book of life and the Book of Life by seducing them into debauchery which he says is "good" for America.........but it is bad in American soldiers in Iraq who never killed one Christian there.
For the record Pelley has been wiping out 2 million American Christians a year for 50 years. So if that is bad in Iraq, it must be really bad in the United States where Christians are termed "red state lunatics".
*HIC IACET ARTORIVS REX QVONDAM REXQVE FVTVRVS
There's a monstrous difference between
December 3, 2007 - 22:50 ET by professor truththe abortion of embryos and the deaths of human beings. To falsely equate embryos with human beings is to destroy or minimize the value of the lives of those people. There is no caomparison to a human embryo and a completely formed, post birth human. It's as dishonest as calling a baby an old man. Anyone who understands biology would never make such a comparison.
profff
December 3, 2007 - 23:01 ET by botgyou no doubt have the forensic DNA evidence?
it is you who denigrate the worth of the unborn humans
GoHunter08
botg, there's no comparison between the developmental state
December 3, 2007 - 23:18 ET by professor truthof an embryo vs a fully formed, post birth human. You could make a case for perhaps a 4 to 5 month fetus, but there is almost no case to state that an embryo equals a fully formed human.
profff au contraire
December 3, 2007 - 23:24 ET by botgthe developmental state is the comparison
same person different day
thanks for pointing that out
GoHunter08
profff
December 3, 2007 - 23:44 ET by botgwe are still waiting for the scientific, replicatable, physical, DNA evidence!!!
Enough with fluff philosophy show me the science!
GoHunter08
ok, botg, you better not take a shower again
December 4, 2007 - 00:18 ET by professor truthbecause all those skin cells you wash off are all potential human beings based on their DNA. No more showers, botg. Think on it ,son.
enufff fluff
December 4, 2007 - 00:22 ET by botgmy skin cells will never in any number of days have to listen to your fluff. Not even close to a point there profff
think on it geezer
GoHunter08
botg, everytime you take a shower, you are a mass murderer.
December 4, 2007 - 01:33 ET by professor truthOne more thing, botg, ......imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.... Think on it , son.
Where is the apology you owe AF?
December 4, 2007 - 01:37 ET by Free StinkerWhere is the apology you owe AF ?
What's all this 'think on it son' crap?
December 4, 2007 - 02:10 ET by mastersofdeceitGood lord what psychosis.
mmmmmmore brandy!
It's a...
December 4, 2007 - 02:16 ET by Sua Sponte 75last ditch effort, not much of one though.
"You're either part of the solution or part of the problem"
"everytime you take a
December 4, 2007 - 21:48 ET by botg"everytime you take a shower you are a mass murder" -- the Profff
"Geeezz i coulda had a human being for da same price" -- Benny Hill
GoHunter08
Embryo vs fully formed
December 3, 2007 - 23:26 ET by Clear thinkerEmbryo vs fully formed human? What's your point? One leads to the other, so if you kill off the first one the second one nevers gets a chance. Life is life, and it's a precious gift from God.
Rush Limbaugh stated that of the top 5 Republicans running for the presidency, only one was a true conservative. http://www.fred08.com/ Rush then stated that the conservative was Fred Thompson.
There's a big difference between an embryo and a fully formed
December 3, 2007 - 23:56 ET by professor truthhuman. Go read any physiology textbook and compare the two.
and the difference is??
December 4, 2007 - 00:04 ET by botgsame person different day
GoHunter08
PT
December 4, 2007 - 00:37 ET by BlondeYou were an embryo...once upon a time.
Aren't you happy your mum didn't abort you?
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive