CBS ‘Early Show’: CIA Uses ‘Spanish Inquisition’ Torture Tactic

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By Kyle Drennen | November 2, 2007 - 13:48 ET

On Firday’s CBS "Early Show," co-host Harry Smith began a segment on the controversy over Attorney General nominee, Michael Mukasey’s stance on water boarding with a report from Capitol Hill Correspondent Chip Reid, who exclaimed that:

Water boarding is a highly controversial interrogation technique that simulates drowning...It's been used by interrogators since the Spanish Inquisition. Reportedly, it's been used by the CIA in real life, too, on a small number of Al Qaeda suspects.

In addition to this exaggerated characterization, Reid also made it seem as though the issue of water boarding was a sudden, shocking controversy, rather than an instance of a consensus nominee, well-liked by Democrats and Republicans, being attacked by those who once welcomed him:

Michael Mukasey looked like he was sailing along to easy confirmation as attorney general, until he ran aground on the issue of water boarding...If he is defeated, water boarding will be the issue that made the difference, something no one could have predicted when the hearings began.

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Reid also quoted Democrats who announced opposition to Mukasey’s nomination, like Ted Kennedy: "I cannot in good conscience support his nomination." However, no mention was made of other prominent liberal Senators, like Patrick Leahy, Charles Schumer, or Harry Reid, who originally supported the nomination. According to an October 16 Associated Press story:

"I would expect him to be confirmed," Senate Judiciary Chairman Patrick Leahy, D-Vt., told reporters after meeting with the former federal judge. "I like Judge Mukasey," Leahy added. "I want him to succeed."...Another White House foe, Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., suggested Mukasey to replace Alberto Gonzales...Even Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has said that Mukasey faces few, if any, obstacles to confirmation.

How quickly things can change.

In the second half of the segment, Smith talked with former CIA official, John Brennan to discuss specifics of the water boarding tactics and their effectiveness. After showing video of simulated water boarding, Smith asked Brennan, "Is that torture?" Brennan responded by saying, "I think it is, certainly, subjecting an individual to severe pain and suffer, which is the classic definition of torture. And I believe, quite frankly, it's inconsistent with American values and it's something that should be prohibited."

Smith then asked:

You know, this all becomes such a giant issue because the president has gone on record so many times saying the United States does not torture. If we acknowledge that this kind of activity goes on, you know, what does that mean, exactly I guess?

Despite stating his opposition to the use of water boarding, Brennan did make an important point about aggressive interrogation tactics in general:

There has been a lot of information that has come out from these interrogation procedures that the agency has, in fact, used against the real hardcore terrorists. It has saved lives. And let's not forget, these are hardened terrorists who have been responsible for 9/11, who have shown no remorse at all for the death of 3,000 innocents.

That hardly sounds like the Spanish Inquisition.

Here is the full transcript of the segment:

7:00AM TEASER:

HARRY SMITH: And water boarding, the matter of torture derailing President Bush's nominee for attorney general. What they really do in secret.

7:09AM SEGMENT:

HARRY SMITH: The issue of torture has caused President Bush to draw a line in the sand over his nominee for attorney general. Mr. Bush says if Michael Mukasey isn't confirmed, then there just won't be an attorney general. CBS News Capitol Hill Correspondent Chip Reid has the latest. Chip, good morning.

CHIP REID: Well good morning, Harry. Michael Mukasey looked like he was sailing along to easy confirmation as attorney general, until he ran aground on the issue of water boarding. Water boarding is a highly controversial interrogation technique that simulates drowning, as seen here in the CIA spy thriller "The Good Shepherd." It's been used by interrogators since the Spanish Inquisition. Reportedly, it's been used by the CIA in real life, too, on a small number of Al Qaeda suspects. But Attorney General nominee Michael Mukasey refuses to say whether he considers it torture.

MICHAEL MUKASEY: I don't know what's involved in the technique. If water boarding is torture, torture is not constitutional.

SHELDON WHITEHOUSE: That's a massive hedge. I mean, it either is or it isn't. I'm very disappointed in that answer.

REID: Four Judiciary Committee Democrats have already said they'll vote against Mukasey and more are expected to follow because of his refusal to clearly state that water boarding is torture. Thursday, Ted Kennedy of Massachusetts became the latest to join the opposition.

TED KENNEDY: And I cannot in good conscience support his nomination. My concerns begin with Judge Mukasey's answers to our questions about the water boarding.

REID: President Bush Thursday, without saying whether the U.S. has used water boarding, defended Mukasey's position.

GEORGE W. BUSH: He does not know whether certain methods of questioning are, in fact, used because the program is classified. And, therefore, he is in no position to provide an informed opinion.

REID: The Senate expert on torture is John McCain, who was severely tortured as a prisoner of war in Vietnam. He supports Mukasey's nomination, but says water boarding clearly is torture. In a campaign speech Thursday, he also said it is not effective.

MCCAIN: But if you inflict enough physical pain on somebody, they'll tell you anything they think that you want to know.

REID: Now, the committee vote on Mukasey is scheduled for Tuesday and is expected to be close. If he is defeated, water boarding will be the issue that made the difference, something no one could have predicted when the hearings began, Harry.

SMITH: Chip Reid, thanks so much. Joining me now is CBS News Consultant John Brennan, former Deputy Executive Director of the CIA and former Director of its National Counter-terrorism Center. He's with us here in our New York studio this morning. Good morning.

JOHN BRENNAN: Good morning, Harry.

SMITH: I want to play some tape, because people have been hearing water boarding, water boarding, water boarding, for a week now. We just showed a little tape from a film. This is actual -- a former special forces member, who now a reporter, said I want to show people what this is like. What happens in water boarding?

BRENNAN: Well, water boarding is a tactic, has been discussed, been used for several hundreds of years. And the individual usually is strapped to a board. His hands and legs are bound, and his head is lower than his feet. And then a constant stream of water is put over his face, his nose and his mouth. And it simulates drowning, and it also induces a gag reflex on an individual, which causes them to want to have that procedure stopped.

SMITH: Right. This is a sort of mild, and as we talked earlier almost amateurish version. The person's head is usually at a much greater angle and an almost more continuous flow of water, so the sensation is very immediate that the person thinks they're going to drown.

BRENNAN: Yes, and a sort of classic water boarding, and I'm not saying the CIA has ever used water boarding, but there would be a constant stream of water and a volume of water that is going to be continuous. Here they stop in between on occasions.

SMITH: Right, right.

BRENNAN: But it's something the individual wants to stop at any cost.

SMITH: Is that torture?

BRENNAN: I think it is, certainly, subjecting an individual to severe pain and suffer, which is the classic definition of torture. And I believe, quite frankly, it's inconsistent with American values and it's something that should be prohibited. But I think Judge Mukasey is in a very difficult position right now, as the attorney general nominee, to be asked whether or not this is torture and if torture then is unconstitutional or illegal, they're asking whether or not water boarding is illegal and whether or not the individuals, which includes the president and others, if it was used, who authorized and actually used this type of procedure, may be subject to some type of judicial action.

SMITH: You know, this all becomes such a giant issue because the president has gone on record so many times saying the United States does not torture. If we acknowledge that this kind of activity goes on, you know, what does that mean, exactly I guess?

BRENNAN: Well, the CIA has acknowledged that it has detained about 100 terrorists since 9/11, and about a third of them have been subjected to what the CIA refers to as "enhanced interrogation tactics." And only a small proportion of those have, in fact, been subjected to the most serious types of enhanced procedures.

SMITH: And you say some of this has born fruit.

BRENNAN: There has been a lot of information that has come out from these interrogation procedures that the agency has, in fact, used against the real hardcore terrorists. It has saved lives. And let's not forget, these are hardened terrorists who have been responsible for 9/11, who have shown no remorse at all for the death of 3,000 innocents.

SMITH: John Brennan, we thank you very, very much for enlightening us this morning. We really do appreciate it.

BRENNAN: Thank you Harry.

SMITH: Alright.

—Kyle Drennen is a news analyst at the Media Research Center.

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No one expected that.

No one expected that.

About face

Who could have seen it coming Matt? A Dem flip-flopping?

I knew someone would get

I knew someone would get that reference...  I thought it would be Roger the Shrubber though...

Let's see what's worse,

Let's see what's worse, being waterboarded or being tazered.. bro?

Tazers induce pain and waterboarding induces panic. hmmmm.. As far as I am concerned terrorists should be subjected to a little panic now and then.

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

The dems don't need no

The dems don't need no stinkin' so-called torture...

They want no info.

Anything for defeat and power...at the cost of lives everywhere.

I call that treason.

By the way...anyone here have an opinion on Mukasey?

(I watched some of the hearings, not much) I for one was worried when the likes of Schumer rallied for him, still am, I see now he is backing away from him along with his other buddies.

I guess we are suppose to hold

their hands and give em' a nice juicy, wet democratic kiss so they will give us the needed information.

Wait a minute. That kiss coming from a democrat just might work. Especially from the lips of say Kennedy, Reid, Pelosi and the like.

Nah, I change my mind. That would be way too much pain and suffering for anybody. In fact, so much so it might just kill em' and we surely can't have that. 

 

Assclowns, everyone single one of them!

The discussion on torture

The discussion on torture needs to be more reasoned out than what the daily hype programs dish out:

http://jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2006/11/defining_tortur_2.html

I read it and apparently

what the author and many of the posters following it seem to forget is that a "TERRORIST"  is NOT A HUMAN BEING and does not deserve to be treated as one so the torture debate should be a non-issue. 

I agree that a terrorists

I agree that a terrorist is not a human being in that he has relinquished his humanity by being a terrorist. In addition, once his humanity is relinquished, it cannot be "reacquired". I feel the same way about murders and child molestors.

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

MM, I am having thoughts

MM, I am having thoughts along the same lines about Hillary....what do you think?  

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

Naw... Hillary has given up

Naw... Hillary has given up her Soul, not her humanity. Big diff right?

"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...

Human beings can be evil.

Human beings can be evil. To deny this is to delude yourself into
thinking that you need not being on guard against evil because you are
"human" unlike others.

Human beings have a sin

Human beings have a sin nature but are not inheritly evil. However some can lets say drift toward the dark side easily, people like Kennedy, Paloosi and Clinton come to mind.

Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.

Water boarding (video) / rendition etc.

First of all, reporter Steve Harrigan at Fox news, is a brave man.

Video: Steve Harrigan gets waterboarded on Fox

Secondly, Gen. Michael Hayden, Director of the CIA, recently spent an hour + with Charlie Rose on PBS. (The video should be at the top of the comment page??)

At 33:50 into the interview, Hayden has some very interesting comments comparing the likes of water boarding to what our young volunteer recruits in Special Forces are subjected to.

And at approx: 19:45 into the interview, there is this delicious little exchange on the policy of extraordinary rendition. Gen. Hayden attempted to get the word out here to the public (the MSM does not want it out) that the policy was created by Bill Clinton. It truly appears that Charlie Rose knew nothing about that, doesn't really want to know, and is trying to steer the conversation away. In fact, here's my transcribed effort (with my comments):

Rose: I want to get to torture and all of that, and interrogation, in a minute, but just let me stay with the argument where you are. Rendition. Rendition is where you take somebody and you transport them to another country, correct? 

Hayden: correct. 

Rose: How man people have you done this to? 

Hayden: Mid-range, two figures since Sept 11, 2001 - a pace somewhat behind the number of renditions conducted in the 1990's. 

Rose (blindsided - looks like this is unbelievable to Rose -- allows Hayden to continue; with a snide tone asks): Who was renditioned during the 1990's? 

Hayden: There were a whole variety of people that who were moved between countries without the benefit of.. 

cross talk - Rose interrupts - is not going to allow Hayden, who was there, to describe why and by whom the program was set up

Rose: So, are we talking about.. about a hundred people? Are we talking about a hundred people.. Since 2001? 

Hayden: When? Since 2001? No, mid-rage 2 figures.. is the figure. 

Cross talk 

Rose: So we've got two figures.. so 50, 60 whatever. It doesn't matter.  60 've been renditioned to somewhere. When you take them there what happens? Who is in charge of the interrogation? What role does the CIA play? How much can the CIA do, or does the CIA want to look the other way, is the impression of many people as you know. Cross talk -

Hayden is interrupting with, No.... no... 

Rose: Alright 

Hayden: The total number of people detained by the CIA is fewer than 100. In the life of the program....  

STOP - then Hayden describes that the total number of people who have been detained, on whom they've used enhanced interrogation procedures on is less than a third of the fewer in a hundred.... 

 

Wow, Gary

I'm going to bookmark that video you just linked. (I watched the waterboarding one...I'd read about waterboarding in one of Vince Flynn's books several years ago.  Sounds bloody effective to me).

I heard an active duty s.f. guy call into CSPAN concerning the confirmation.  He basically stated that, no, water-boarding isn't torture, they have to go through much worse in SERE school, and when questioned about exactly what that was, he declined to comment.

To paraphrase "we don't discuss operational methodolgies so that the enemy is familiar with them" or something similar.  Further, he stated that since the nominee wouldn't have yet been cleared for this kind of information, it was unfair to hold him to some crazy kind of standard.

I hadn't read or heard of the backround of the rendition policy, though.  Fascinating stuff.  Particularly Rose's reaction to it.  Hmmm, imagine that....started by none other than Bill Clinton.

You did it again, Gary. Thanks for continuing my politcal education.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Blonde.... ssshhh, the MSM might find out.

Blonde.... ssshhh,  the MSM might find out.

Look, as it stands, now that you know, there's 7 people in America that know that the program of extroadinary rendition (grab and snatch and flying them off to Egypt for old fashion torture) was Bill Clinton's baby. It'd be 8, but I'm quite sure that Charlie Rose quickly forgot what he'd just been informed of from the CIA.

You're familiar with Al Gore's earlier view - right (my bold, my bold)?

Richard Clarke's book (Against All Enemies, 143-4):

 

- Snatches, or more properly "extraordinary renditions," were operations to apprehend terrorists abroad, usually without the knowledge of and almost always without public acknowledgement of the host government. . . The first time I proposed a snatch, in 1993, the White House Counsel, Lloyd Cutler, demanded a meeting with the President to explain how it violated international law. Clinton had seemed to be siding with Cutler until Al Gore belatedly joined the meeting, having just flown overnight from South Africa. Clinton recapped the arguments on both sides for Gore:.. Gore laughed and said, "That's a no-brainer. Of course it's a violation of international law, that's why it's a covert action. The guy is a terrorist. Go grab his ass." 
 

 

Oh my, if only Dick Cheney had the 00's to say something agressive like that!

PS - how's that liquid fire water coming along? (;'~>

Dammit Gary,

You've apparently got all the spooks stirred up with your posts here.  I replied (and your post here was originally down at the bottom of this thread...now it's moved).  They're messing with the threads, here, because my post has vanished!  I guess they could tell us how they do that, but then we'd be dead. 

So, I think we've not gone undetected by the evil CIA and their minions....prepare for rendition Gary!  Or at least give me the secret sign when the black helicopters start circling.

Let me think....oh I remember what I said.  Kinda.

I promise not to tell anyone, now that you've let me in on the secret.  But, I must say.....How alpha-maleish of Al Gore!  Now I'm truly impressed by him, particularly when he wears his Steven Segal black jumpsuit.

As to the firewater thing, I'm thinking about starting this weekend.  But I don't want to go all Grey Goose on it...thinking somewhere in between.  Any suggestions?

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

spooky, is it not?

Well, it was my fault.. as I posted a reply to your so nice comment.. but I missed the thread. When I saw it.. I moved it. Must have been just as you were typing another.

And, I don't know. For this purpose, I mean with all of the heat and all, not to mention dirty from the spicy olive juice, I would never stoop to the level of Smirnoff, but Zry, Stoli, Absolute, or Chopin will certainly do the job quite nicely. Well, then again, Copin's an awful prrrrutty bottle -- and if Ballade No. 1 in G minor, op. 23 is on playing on the ivory - how could you go wrong. Besides, there is something to be said about mixing vegetables with vegetables, and the Chopin is made from potatoes.

 

Oh Sheesh!

And I thought it was full of evil CIA plots.  Go figure!  The rendition thing was rather interesting, as was the 8 voter ID's of the 911 terrs. 

Rend them all, says Blonde.

So, I was kind of thinking maybe Fris (nice bottle, too).  I told you there are some great veggies in bottles at the pop store, yes?

I'm going to be an impressive boss with my gifts this year, thanks to you, G.  I like it.  I just have to get off my tired bum and get with the program, like tomorrow, LOL. 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Gary and Blonde

Hi Guys...

First, the US isn't into default torture.  This is the issue.

The MSM and the DNC would like everyone to believe that under the reign of GWB, the default is denial of civil liberties.

Gee...

Not.

So, the issue of whether handcuffing a suspect is cruel and unusal punishment is not the point.  The point is to derail the gathering of information within a nation in the state of War.

GWB addressed the point of fact to the Democrats yesterday and today with his addresses.  The Democrats do not believe the US is in a state of war.

Therefore, everything done by our troops, our covert agencies and our President has been illegal.

Now, given that I live currently in the world of la la land (Calif - North) I have been subjected to the insanity of the idea that the US is currently in NAZI land.

So, while this augument can continue in the world of the Harvard Professors of Law regarding whether a) one act is torture or b) it is not torture ---

The whole idea is to use the word 'torture' in the realm of the Bush Presidency.

:-)

ACA 

...

Chat Moderator:  Best times are from 11:30 AM to 4:30 PM ET.  Send personal message to schedule your chat. Monday and Thursday Chats will be held for the time being.

Quoted from: 'Acaiguana notes from the Underground. (soon to be a movie in theaters near you)

ACA

As you've so cogently pointed out, the aim of the MsM is to derail (and spin) the point of discussion.

Rather than discuss, specifically, why terrorists, oh, excuse me, the p.c. term is "enemy combatants" have no rights under the Geneva Conventions, the media chooses to indict the administration for "torture".

Granted, it has not yet been established that "water-boarding" is torture, but come on...one must run with the premise that IT IS....because the MsM says so, and Darth & ChimpyMcHitler have (and perhaps the soon to be AG) have condoned it.

Get with the program, would ya? 

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

ACA

Long time! And I could not agree more with you. Well said; in fact, gosh darn it - you hit most of my usual points.

Marin? 

gary (;~>

Sonoma....

Shucks

But Jack London had some of it right...

ACA 

...

Chat Moderator:  Best time 11:30 AM to 4:30 PM ET.  PM to schedule your chat. Monday and Thursday Chats will be held.

Quoted from: 'Acaiguana notes from the Underground' (Soon to be at theaters near you)

Journalists wouldn't like me...........

They wouldn't want me to interrogate terrorists.

If I had a crack at interrogation, I would do this:

I would take a Black Widow spider and press her against the skin of the terrorist I was trying to get info from - In full view of other terrorists - Until she put the chomp on him.

 

When they got-a-load of the devastating non-permanent spectacle unfolding before their eyes, You would have no problem getting all the information you wanted!

(Hint Hint, Hint Hint) Any CIA ops out there? (Just keep it hush hush)

deleted by user

deleted by user

Terrorist are far beyond "evil". Problem is

we want to keep coddling them with hugs and kisses rather than dealing with them and getting it done. We could have ended this war years ago if the damn politicians would stay out of it. Rules of engagement should not apply to terrorists, period.

voodoo... I could not

voodoo...

I could not agree more.

To me, not letting the CIA

To me, not letting the CIA torture terrorists is like not letting my kids dress up for Halloween.  Some spook is going to be really disappointed come sundown.  And I don't want that on my conscience.  Why isn't someone speaking out for our CIA folks?

"We just can't trust the American people to make those types of choices.... Government has to make those choices for people" -HRC

mindless blather

I once walked into our local saloon to find the town drunk standing comfortably propped on his elbows watching the ball game. I mentioned that the local newspaper editior - a real pseudo-elitist - had written one of his pompous editorials. Jim kind of curled his lip and said "what gives him the right to an opinion?" It was a moment of illuminating clarity. What, indeed, gives someone the "right" to an opinion when they have no knowledge, no real interest, and certainly no expericnce in the subject matter???

There is nothing more respulsive than watching these MSM reporters, and professors, and lawyers, and these insipid politicians like Ted Kennedy and Dick Durbin, and yes, even Bill O'Reilly, presuming to dictate to our military what the proper methods are for interrogating murderous terrorists. What in the world gives them the right to an opinion on such a subject?

If one of their wives, or daughters, or sons was being held by one of these characters who was threatening to cut their heads off in two hours, there isn't a single freakin' one of them (except maybe Ted [gurgle, gurgle] Kennedy) who wouldn't be pleading for the interrogator to rip their gonads off in order to save their loved one.

Telling our military what they can or can't do to save the lives of their fellow soldiers, or American citizens, is beyond stupid - it's morally outrageous.

 

He who hesitates is last.