Does MSNBC's Martin Bashir Not Get the Concept of 'Innocent Until Proven Guilty'?
The presumption of innocence is a cornerstone of Anglo-American jurisprudence, so surely well-educated British citizen Martin Bashir knows better than to declare in his closing "Clear the Air" commentary on his April 11 MSNBC program that with charges pending against Sanford, Florida resident "George Zimmerman will have to justify his actions in a court of law." "From the very outset, virtually every aspect of this case has raised serious questions about Mr. Zimmerman's actions and the story that followed," Bashir added, before rattling off the as-yet-unproven but widely reported notion that Zimmerman continued to pursue Trayvon Martin on foot after the 911 dispatcher counseled him not to.
But wait, there's more, as Bashir used the opportunity to not only convict Zimmerman but virtually finger gun rights groups that have lobbied for Stand Your Ground laws as unindicted co-conspirators:
BASHIR: Whatever the charges announced this evening, this won't just be a trial of Mr. Zimmerman's actions, it will also be an opportunity to assess the sense and validity of so-called Stand Your Ground Laws.
Just an hour ago, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg scoffed at the idea those laws are simply about self defense.
BLOOMBERG: These shoot-first laws have nothing to do with that or with the exercise of Second Amendment rights. Instead they justify civilian gunplay and invite vigilante justice and retribution with disastrous results.
BASHIR: Nothing will bring back the life of Trayvon Martin, but there remains an opportunity to do everything in our powers to prevent this from every happening again.
While Bashir didn't explicitly blame the NRA, Mayor Bloomberg did. What's more, Bashir and his producers can't have not known that, as the network carried Bloomberg's comments live two hours earlier (video here and embedded below):
...Since then the NRA managed to spread this law to 24 other states telling legislators that this would make their communities safer. Well, it didn't turn out that way, and we now have the data to prove it.
In reality, the NRA's leaders weren't interested in public safety, they were interested in promoting a culture where people take the law into their own hands and face no consequences for it. Let's call that by its real name, vigilantism..
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Comments
vigilante justice (ready with the rope and tree)
Submitted by MidAmerica on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 6:03pm.
Besides the legal concept of innocent until proven guilty there is the fact that the media has poisoned the jury pool and outside agitators are waiting to tear up the town if he is not convicted. How on earth can this man receive a fair trial? He needs a venue like GITMO where there can be some semblance of neutrality.
Right, MA....here we go
Submitted by motherbelt on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 7:51pm.
Right, MA....here we go again...
No "justice," no peace.
the advocates
Submitted by MidAmerica on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 8:16pm.
You just know the ACLU is stepping forward to protect Zimmermanns constitutional rights and the Southern Poverty Law Center is keeping a close watch on all of the groups and individuals prone to violence.
and they'll be pleased to
Submitted by motherbelt on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 8:48pm.
and they'll be pleased to accept the New Black Panthers' offer to "patrol" outside the courthouse....
Get your tar and feathers right here!
Submitted by DontFeedTheTrolls on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 4:39am.
Maybe the TEA Party should offer a $10,000 reward for OJ Simpson.
Dead Or Alive.
Just like the NBP's have offered for Zimmerman.
I'm sure Holder wouldn't prosecute.
Let's see...
Submitted by nixon on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 6:02pm.
Bashir ,and Bloomberg seem to think that personal protection against violence is apparently the ability to dial 911.
If that's what they want to do , I'm fine with it . I'll keep carrying my springer 1911 ,thank you very much .
Hard to take you seriously
Submitted by Reaver on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 6:12pm.
Hard to take you seriously Marty after you dismissed vigilantism by the new black panthers as no big deal.
So remind me again...
Submitted by The_Barrel_Guy on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 7:50pm.
Besides Newsbusters who keeps an eye on marty-boy, what are the names of the other eight people who watch his show?
I'm sure HE knows;
Submitted by motherbelt on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 7:56pm.
I'm sure HE knows their names; undoubtedly they are his family.
leadership
Submitted by MidAmerica on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 6:13pm.
It's time for Bloomberg to lead by example and travel his city without security.
Doesn't work that way...
Submitted by JohnP in OK on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 6:41pm.
Like all liberals, Bloomberg believes that he is entitled to armed guards around him because he's too cowardly to carry his own gun. And of course, he deserves special protection because he's a liberal!!
Bloomberg is working on his own version of 'shoot first'
Submitted by SickofLibs on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 6:15pm.
NOBODY should have a gun except the criminals. If it's your time, it's your time; just STHU and accept it.
And if he could get away with turning the NYPD into an even more milquetoast version of London's (unarmed) Bobbies, he'd do it in a heartbeat.
In closing, let me add that I'd love to personally whack that condescending sneer off Bashir's ugly mug.
Actually, the bobbies aren't unarmed anymore
Submitted by JohnP in OK on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 6:37pm.
I have a couple of friends at the Metropolitan Police and they tell me that today is very different than days gone by.
Back in the 80's the bobby walked his beat unarmed except for his nightstick, and a PPK under the coat in IRA-prone areas.
Today they patrol in pairs, in their squad cars, wear the same body armor as the British army, carry the same 9mm pistol as the army, have the army's assault rifle in the cars....and they still feel that they're out-gunned by the criminal element!!
As far as taking a whack at Bashir goes...I'd rather just toss him on a plane with a one-way ticket to whatever muslim country he's from. And I'd keep his passport and U.S. ID!!
Thanks, JohnP.
Submitted by SickofLibs on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 9:19pm.
Glad to hear it. That's about the only sensible thing I've heard to come out of the UK in the last decade.
Bashir is as English as
Submitted by Ken Shepherd on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 10:06pm.
Bashir is as English as fish-and-chips. He was born in the UK to Pakistani immigrants. He's also a Christian, not a Muslim.
I heard Bloomberg talking about this today
Submitted by Kingfish17 on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 6:20pm.
First thing I wondered was why the mayor of NYC is worried about laws in the state of Florida. I guess things are pretty much perfect up there.
"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama
Kingfish
Submitted by Tugboat Phil on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 11:50pm.
He also has enough time to send undercover cops down here to Virginia, to see if they can illegally buy handguns. Our laws are apparently the cause of NYC violence.
Now it's official: Zimmerman to be tried 2nd degree murder
Submitted by no tingly legs on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 6:59pm.
I hope after this political trial and acquittal are over, Zimmerman sues the he!! out of NBC for defamation of character.
Eric "My People" Holder Wants Justice - Thanks Sharpton
Submitted by stratman on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 7:44pm.
A political indictment followed by a kangaroo court sham trial. OJ Simpson's trial will seem a paragon of decorum and justice by comparison.
Zimmerman is going to prison regardless of the evidence.
Just go back and watch "Bonfire of the Vanities".
Submitted by UpNorth on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 8:43pm.
Now that the jury pool in Seminole County is thoroughly poisoned, watch the race hustlers scream when Zimmerman's next team of lawyers asks for a change of venue. What with the President on down to the NBPP making their thoughts known, how does Zimmerman get a fair trial? That's just a rhetorical question. Not to mention, the AG making the veiled threat that if Florida won't do it's duty(and find Zimmerman guilty), the DoJ is more than ready to step in.
I doubt that 12 untainted jurors could be found on Guam, before it tips over.
And, 2d degree murder really seems a stretch. I wonder if the prosecutor over-charged, with the thought that Hey, the jury won't convict for murder, but they'll "settle" for manslaughter.
I had thought "what if there
Submitted by stratman on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 9:23pm.
I had thought "what if there is no other charge but 2nd degree murder"? Maybe the prosecutor is manipulating events to force the jury to come back with "not guilty". Of course this presupposes much, including that an untainted jury can be selected in the first place.
"They" the jury or the defense?
Submitted by dave_worrell on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 10:42pm.
"And, 2d degree murder really seems a stretch. I wonder if the prosecutor over-charged, with the thought that Hey, the jury won't convict for murder, but they'll "settle" for manslaughter."
As far as I know, juries can't consider a lesser charge of their own volition. That is, if charged with 2nd degree murder, the jury can only consider a ruling on that and not manslaughter.
I do wonder if she went for 2nd degree hoping Zimmerman and his lawyers might consider a plea bargain of some form of Manslaughter. Offer him 5-10 years somewhere where he won't get beaten every day or killed in a month.
Only other reason to make your case harder is to cover your butt politically. Short term gain is he's charged with some degree of murder and the protestors pull back a little. Maybe another national furor takes place between now and the trial. And that's a pretty short-sighted plan, considering the case becomes harder to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.
Admittedly, Dave, I don't live in Fl.
Submitted by UpNorth on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 8:54am.
In Michigan, there's usually the lesser included offenses in most criminal trials. Unless the judge specifically rules it out when he charges the jury.
I think the biggest laugher of the press conference was when the State's Attorney said that the charge was not in response to demonstrations or petitions. This is precisely in response to that, along with the overt threats to peace.
Makes one wonder if the
Submitted by MrSnuggles on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 7:32pm.
Makes one wonder if the prosecutor chose to forego the grand jury because fear they would not charge him.
Grand juries only hear the
Submitted by Ken Shepherd on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 10:21pm.
Grand juries only hear the state's evidence and don't get cross-examination from defense counsel. So I'm not so sure that a decent prosecutor would be unable to get an indictment from a grand jury. Under Florida law, you only have to use a grand jury to get an indictment on a first-degree murder charge. But I think there's no way that a reasonable prosecutor would attempt a first-degree charge in court given the circumstances of the case.
Zimmeman is screwed, if he
Submitted by tobiasdog on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 7:43pm.
Zimmeman is screwed, if he gets an OJ Simpson mostly black jury he will get the max, if he gets a mostly white jury he will get the max because of white guilt slash cowardice-no jurist will have the courage to do otherwise or will risk death threats. He will be a ritual sacrifice for appeasement.
And the real losers will be law abiding citizens who wish to carry a gun for self defense, Zimmerman seems to have been in a no-win situation, stunned and in danger of losing control of his weapon he made a split second decision that I would not want to be in a position to make. People under estimate the damage an un-armed enraged attacker can inflict on a person.Most fights like these have to be stopped by a third party "breaking it up" in this case that third party was the gun.
Ps, I have a friend who just got out of the hospital after eight months, most of the time spent in a coma. He still has a long road to go and most likely will not be the same ever again after a fist fight in a bar....NO WEAPONS were involved in the altercation, and his attacker was much younger than him.
Excuse me, but why should
Submitted by motherbelt on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 8:00pm.
Excuse me, but why should anyone care what Michael Bloomberg thinks about this?? Why don't they ask the mayor of...I don't know....Kansas City, or maybe Minot SD???
Martin Batsh*t and Common Sense is an Oxymoron
Submitted by djwolf12 on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 8:00pm.
Bashir and Common Sense is an oxymoron, just like if you are combining the words Smart and Gym Teacher.
shopping list
Submitted by MidAmerica on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 8:30pm.
There are probably many individuals hoping for a race riot from an aquittal. Wouldn't be surprised if they haven't already scoped out the business where they plan on getting their own justice because they are so enraged at the injustice of the trial. Nothing like acquiring a new flat screen TV to feel better about yourself.
Why is it when Maj. Hassan
Submitted by Dave the mailman on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 8:47pm.
Why is it when Maj. Hassan (Fort Hood) was mentioned, he was always the "alleged" shooter? I have yet to hear Zimmerman referred to as "alleged" in his case....
Group rights
Submitted by Unsane on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 8:58pm.
Simple: group rights. The Major has more rights and more privileges because of the group he belongs to. Zimmerman has no group rights whatsoever, even if he is half-Hispanic. The police should have summarily executed him; at minimum they should have dragged Zimmerman back to the PD for an interrogation that would make Beria himself cringe with horror.
Hope this view (as the Left sees it) clears things up.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
half this and half that
Submitted by oldfart on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 6:06am.
The difference in hair skin color is no more different than hair or eye color. Just a little tweak in the DNA here or there makes the difference. If people where to research their family tree they might be surprised at what they find. Perhaps with the except for the snooty people from certain areas, they will find that since there were so few people in certain parts of the country that a whole lot of 'steppin' was going on. For those who don't get it – there are a significant number of people whose family trees contain people of multiple backgrounds.
bias
Submitted by jaywl on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 8:47pm.
I watch Foxnews almost exclusively. Tonight on the 7PM segment with Shep Smith I was reminded, again, that showing bias and letting one's personal philosophy interfere with reportage is not exclusive to their competition, such as Martin Bashir represents. I was angered by Smith showing the discredited video of Zimmerman walking into the station and saying it showed no marks on his head. He didn't use the enhanced video that shows a large wound on the back of his head. That was no error. It was an attempt to discredit Zimmerman knowing full well that the other video exists and supports the "Shooter". I say shooter because following the next segment, a field report from Orlando, Smith used the term "shooter" four times within one minute to describe Zimmerman. How's that for straight up reporting, unbiased news. I would not have been surprised if he had used "killer." I know Fox likes to think they are strictly middle of the road, apolitical in their news reports (as opposed to their talk shows like Hannity). They need to rein in Smith if they want me to watch the show and I am certain there are many viewers that feel the same way. Keep the Bear and Oxford, get rid of his shameful bias in a matter of life and prison and his annoying, slanted support of liberal causes.
Shep Smith belongs on CNN
Submitted by Radical1979 on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 9:11pm.
His bias often comes out.
Edit
Submitted by jaywl on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 9:28pm.
I forgot about this. Smith said : Now that there will be a trial " there is the possibility of justice." Does he mean the obvious, that if he is found guilty there will be justice, otherwise the word "possibility" wouldn't be needed. I thought no matter the verdict justice would be served. I guess his Ol' Miss education is lacking or he is just a plain biased, slanted, twisted reporter undeserving of my viewership.
BTW, I tried an edit to the original but access was denied. ??
jaywl
Submitted by Blonde on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 9:42pm.
You can only edit your post if no one has replied...once there's a reply, your original post is "locked".
Agreed....I saw Shep's little (one of many) diatribe....he's an idiot.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
not just Shep
Submitted by mom_rox on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 9:34am.
I saw Phil Keating's report on Special Report. I would describe his words and manner as being almost giddy that Zimmerman was arrested. It was not a straight news report that I expect from Special Report.
Martin Bashir pretends to be a Christian, but his Islamist
Submitted by drsamherman on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 8:59pm.
core comes out in cases like this. He does not give a damn about justice or the presumption of innocence. Given his 7th century barbarian ways, he would use Sharia law and have Zimmerman beheaded because that is where his Islamist "values" lie. Nothing else matters to his sociopathic mind but forcing dhimmitude on Americans. He is the worst form of political detritus.
Martin Bashir pretends to be a Christian, but his Islamist
Submitted by drsamherman on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 8:59pm.
core comes out in cases like this. He does not give a damn about justice or the presumption of innocence. Given his 7th century barbarian ways, he would use Sharia law and have Zimmerman beheaded because that is where his Islamist "values" lie. Nothing else matters to his sociopathic mind but forcing dhimmitude on Americans. He is the worst form of political detritus.
Lynch mob mentality promoted by Major news media
Submitted by lrgon on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 9:25pm.
The Ox-Bow Incident
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=The+Oxbow+Incident+youtube&mid=37843...
A 1943 cowboy movie titled The Ox-Bow Incident tells a tale of a lynch mob being whipped up to a frenzy by the town's bigot. A vote is taken, quite democratically to hang three men falsely accused of cattle rustling.
The roll of the leader of the mob could easily be played by any member of the major news media that is currently whipping up the race war over this incident.
Yeah, I wonder if we will get
Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 10:42pm.
Yeah, I wonder if we will get to read the letter Zim leaves behind.
Sad, and ugly
Submitted by bobsmom on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 9:36pm.
are the only descriptors for this absolute travesty of justice. Certain forces have been wanting a "race war" in the worst way. However, I do believe when "push comes to shove", they chose the wrong hill to die on. Hispanics have not weighed in on this, as of yet, and I think that is an element that was not factored in when they decided Mr Zimmerman was a "white hispanic". The fact that he is a citizen, should make their blood run cold to see that his "rights" aren't even being protected as a full blown, legal citizen of the USA. There will be riots regardless of the outcome, we know this.
My second point is, although there has been willful ignorance in regards to the increase in the sale of firearms in the last couple of years, I submit, there are a whole bunch of people who are about to learn the hard way, what "stand your ground" really means. And I chuckle as I write, our former governor Granholm signed the law for us up here, and as much as I despise her, I have to thank her, and hope she sleeps well at night over the next 6 months or so, I'm sure she never imagined assisting a conservative cause.
I shoot, my husband shoots, and our house is a veritable gun show of .38 revolvers, autos, and our favorite uglies, Mossbergs. I am not looking for war. But if it shows up in my back yard, I am prepared.
bobsmom.....completely agree!
Submitted by BEGRUNT on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 10:29pm.
My wife is Hispanic, and these clowns have no idea what they are about to release........Once his mother, a Peruvian, speaks to Telemundo, and the other Spanish language news groups, in SPANISH....it will be UGLY. As I said these clowns have no idea what they are getting themselves into!
"A nation can suffer it's fool's, but cannot survive the traitor"
Cicero
I am
Submitted by bobsmom on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 10:49pm.
heartened to hear that, thank you. I have been trying to learn, with little success, how to get the Hispanic community involved in this. I really do believe, they have no idea of the Pandora's box they have opened. And I feel justified in my thoughts. My niece (who is white), married into a Hispanic family (whom we all love), and they treat her like a princess. There are 2 toddlers involved, that both families believe walk on water. We can blend as a society, in lovely ways, sad that the "party of diversity" has apparently never experienced that. Bless you and your family.
Being a Latino on this board, let me tell you
Submitted by drsamherman on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 10:55pm.
if it comes to Black vs Latino, be very afraid. The ethnic identification and solidarity of America's fastest growing minority will be felt. If the viciousness of Mexican and Centroamerican gangs is any evidence, the NBP will be outmatched and outmaneuvered very quickly and they will not know what happened until God himself sorts it out. I have treated enough of their victims from South Texas to say otherwise.
Thank you
Submitted by bobsmom on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 11:33pm.
for your insight. It is my belief/opinion that the black population has been insulated from reality, and coddled, if you will in many instances, into believing they are more powerful/vicious than what they are. I am not saying that Hispanics are "worse" in any respect, I am saying that the Hispanic population, as well as the Caucasian population, have attempted to take the high road for years when it comes to "race relations", and this may well be the case that tips the scales. I neither relish, nor look forward this "war" as they wish to call it. I agree with you wholeheartedly, they have no idea what they may be unearthing with this and Heaven help us all.
Another latino....
Submitted by Dave the mailman on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 11:48pm.
Speaking only from personal experience, I cannot remember the last time I heard a Hispanic play the race card. The last time I heard a a black play the race card?....yesterday at work..
Mossbergs
Submitted by oldfart on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 5:56am.
Isn't it amazing how racking a round in a slide shotgun causes people to get 'friendly' real quick. You don't even have to point it in their direction. LOL. I doubt that there is not a person on the planet, except for perhaps the deep jungle of Brazil or Indonesia, that does not know that sound.
Sad and ugly and FRIGHTENING!
Submitted by creekrat on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 9:06am.
This guy was a volunteer trying to protect his and others property. This kind of reaction and treatment will for certain make any potential watch interest disapear quick....but maybe, that is part of the intent ?
no es necesario aplicar español
Submitted by MidAmerica on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 9:45pm.
It will be interesting to see if the prosecution tries to pack the jury with only Whites and Blacks while excluding Hispanics.
Whites who don't vote to convict will be branded as racists on national news media and would any Black dare go against his whole community and risk becoming an outcast?
I don't think Zim will get a
Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Wed, 04/11/2012 - 10:44pm.
I don't think Zim will get a fair jury pool. There will be a mistrial somewhere down the line. The boy is as good as hung.
agreed
Submitted by oldfart on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 5:50am.
Even moving the trial to Jacksonville will do little good. The New Black Panther Party, Al Sharpton, Anthony Holder, the lame stream media el.al. have made sure the waters are so poisoned that finding people who are truly impartial will be very difficult. Perhaps if the Territory of Guam will volunteer to host the trial, with reimbursement from Florida, it might be possible.
Good morning oldfart
Submitted by cocodrie on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 6:09am.
Guam won't work. All those reporters would cause Guam to tip over and sink.
Jesus Loves You so much He died for you
coco,
Submitted by Dave. on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 10:03pm.
ROFL!
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
Good evening Dave
Submitted by cocodrie on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 10:08pm.
That's what thr democrats said and they know everythong.
Jesus Loves You so much He died for you
Okay
Submitted by panzerakc on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 12:01am.
Is the headline of this thread a trick question?
In the race to
Submitted by fivestring_assassin on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 8:22am.
the bottom at MSNBC, Bashir is the odds on favourite
“THIS IDIOT PROSECUTOR SHOULD BE DISBARRED”
Submitted by Jonah Johansen on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 10:51am.
“THIS IDIOT PROSECUTOR SHOULD BE DISBARRED”
I thought the same, when I first read about her decision.
I thought about it some more and have concluded the following-
She is simply buying time. She is well aware that they will never get a 2nd degree murder conviction. They now have 6-9 months to let the angry mob cool off. Any trial will be after the election so the left will have less incentive to throw more gasoline on the fire.
During this delay the defense and others will reveal more and more information. We will see the police, eye witness and par-medics reports; which will leave no reasonable doubt that Mr. Zimmerman was attacked and injured.
Additional negative information about the alleged victim will be revealed. We will learn more about his drug use, the incident where they found apparently stolen jewelry on him will lead to information showing he was at least a petty theft and possibly a burglar. His thug/gangsta wannabe persona will emerge, possible previous assaultive behavior. Who knows?
I read elsewhere that before the murder trial; Florida law requires there to be a hearing on whether this was self defense; the standard will be ‘preponderance of evidence’. By the end of that hearing the public will have seen more than enough evidence for the large majority to realize that this was ultimately self defense.
Given the pathological anger hatred and denial of reality on the one side; it is hard to predict how they will react to having the true facts exposed. My fear is, the desire on the part of white and black leftist activists, to see major cities burned and loot is so great; no amount facts or evidence will make a difference.
You can only hope that by then, there is a Republican in the White House to suppress those riots and protect the truly innocent.
Well, I guess in theory it
Submitted by bretzysdude on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 11:02am.
Well, I guess in theory it makes sense that she may be buying time. I kept thinking that if it was indeed a lesser charge, they would be more (more, mind you, but the possibility won't necessarily go away) incentive for Sharpton's groups to throw fits and riots, president to declare martial law and suspend elections (not as farfetched as you might think). At this point, talking this out and trying to calm it down for now could work out, so that at least we can have at least a chance in getting Obama out of office.
bretzysdude......you touched.......
Submitted by BEGRUNT on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 11:22am.
on one of my fears.....the "martial law card" that Zero would be more than willing to use. At times, this looks very orchestrated to push this to the ultimate conclusion, so they can suspend the elections due to a "National crisis". I know that sounds conspiratorial, but with this crew, Zero, Holder, et al. I feel this is a very REAL scenario.
"A nation can suffer it's fool's, but cannot survive the traitor"
Cicero
Begrunt
Submitted by Radical1979 on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 11:35am.
I'm in complete agreement about the martial law card. Why did the government buy all that ammo?
This trial will be set to end at the end of October or early November with a not guilty verdict. Riots will result, and not be tamped down until deal leader has to declare martial law and "postpone" the elections.
Unless they've destroyed Romney. Then this trial will fade away.
The sides
Submitted by jon_torlin on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 12:04pm.
In this case, we're going to probably see three sides instead of the two that are being thrown about with regards to this case. As far as most of the public is concerned, we're seeing blacks (obeyme, holder, sharpton, panthers, etc) versus whites. What we're not seeing and will probably be seeing more into the public is blacks versus whites/hispanics, depending on the nature of the groups.
This is a race war, after all, and Obeyme, with Holder, Sharpton and others' help, they ARE going to instigate it.
-Jon
Some thoughts on "suspending elections"
Submitted by Unsane on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 9:11pm.
There is one small thing people forget:
OK, let's say you're right, and this will be part of some move to have elections "suspended". All you really need at that point is to have some people who know their history (like me) who would point out that elections went on even in this nation's darkest hours. Such as 1864, when the country was engaged in the Civil War. Indeed, I'm not aware of elections that were postponed or suspended during that time. Or World War II. The elections proceeded as planned.
You get that little bit of knowledge out to enough people...
I have another theory of why there is loading up on ammo. But it isn't pretty and I won't discuss it here.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
UNS, I ......
Submitted by BEGRUNT on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 9:20pm.
Whole heartily agree......but people like us, who are students of history, already know this.....My fear is the dumbed down masses, that they may try to pull this off. If it is tried, well, I dont want to think about it, it will not end well.
"A nation can suffer it's fool's, but cannot survive the traitor"
Cicero
Spot on
Submitted by Unsane on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 9:24pm.
No doubt. There ARE a LOT of idiots and drones out there.
That being said, I think your last sentence says it all. If it is tried, there are going to be enough people like you and me that will raise nothing but BS flags. Thus, it will not end well. Like you, I shudder to think about it.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Many well dressed lawyers
Submitted by billb on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 11:19am.
Many well dressed lawyers appear on MSNBC and read from the script they are given,ie; Zimmerman was told to stop following him. Everyone insists that he didn't follow orders and continued to follow him. How do they know that? Maybe he did in fact stop following, turned around and headed back to his car. Was he attacked from behind while in retreat? This possibility doesn't seem to occur to anyone.
Except
Submitted by stratman on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 2:05pm.
Except there was no order nor unambiguous direction to stop following:
There is also the question of whether the 911 operator may give a lawful order to comply in this situation.
From the 911 recording, it is clear that Zimmerman is no longer exerting himself after having done so previously when he claimed to be following Martin. This does not prove Zimmerman has turned around but it does provide opportunity to circumstantially show his pursuit had changed substantially and lends credibility to Zimmerman's story of breaking off the search and returning to his vehicle when he was allegedly confronted and then attacked.
Strat, and anyone else interested,
Submitted by UpNorth on Fri, 04/13/2012 - 10:37pm.
the item linked to is from the City of Sanford's web page, it's the ramblings of the city manager. There are some nuggets here, though, including the explanation why Zimmerman wasn't arrested that night. This is a quote from that page, "Mr. Zimmerman provided a statement claiming he acted in self defense which at the time was supported by physical evidence and testimony". I wonder, what's changed since that night? Has the evidence changed, has the testimony changed?
Also, the matter of Zimmerman being advised not to follow Martin is addressed. The CM states that "the call takers suggestion is not a lawful order that Mr. Zimmerman would be required to follow". The CM also states that Zimmerman told the non-emergency operator that he had lost sight of Martin and was returning to his truck when he was attacked.
Thanks
Submitted by stratman on Fri, 04/13/2012 - 11:30pm.
Interesting reading, UpNorth.
The city manager also writes:]
Don't know the effect this statement will have in the end, but it does seem to point towards a reckless injustice by the Media (and politicians) has been perpetrated on Zimmerman.
MSNBC and Bloomberg
Submitted by misterbee241 on Thu, 04/12/2012 - 12:44pm.
Where is the third stooge?
I certainly do not expect anything rational from either one of these two clowns. It seems to me to be a choice of the victim, flee or fight. The law should support him in either case. But that's not liberalism.