MSNBC's Bashir Suggests Founding Fathers Would Favor Obama's Push for Tax Hike on Rich
British-born MSNBC afternoon anchor Martin Bashir devoted his September 20 "Clear the Air" commentary to clouding the issue of raising taxes by citing the clause in Article I, Section 9 of the U.S. Constitution's that bans Congress from granting titles of nobility (video follows page break):
It's time now to "Clear the Air." And with Republicans declaring that class warfare has been started by President Obama, after he suggested that Warren Buffett should at least pay the same amount of tax as his secretary, I was reminded of an American history class that I took in my final year of high school in London.
During one lesson, we were introduced to Article 1 and Section 9 of the American Constitution and were told that this was one of the most important clauses designed to end the aristocratic and class-ridden approach to society that had defined Great Britain during the 18th century.
[...]
There is no class warfare because the battle is over and the middle classes have lost. And that’s why asking Mr. Buffett to pay the same amount of tax as his secretary is not class warfare, it's actually the faint echo of a constitution that was intended to prevent the kind of social divisions that are all too apparent today.
The Constitution was meant to engineer society? Funny, I thought it was a charter to constitute and limit the powers of a federal republic and "secure the blessings of liberty," for countless generations of Americans.
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Bashir offered no evidence to support the notion that Alexander Hamilton -- who served as the first Secretary of the Treasury -- or any of the other Framers of the Constitution supported an income tax, much less a graduated scheme of income taxes predicated on the notion of "prevent[ing]... social divisions."
Indeed no federal income tax implemented until the Civil War, and that tax was repealed 10 years later. It was only with the ratification of the 16th Amendment in 1913 that income taxes received iron-clad constitutional authorization.
From from clearing the air, Bashir's leftist rhetoric just clouds the issue on top of distorting history.
Editor's Note: Please pardon how the video abruptly cuts off before Bashir's commentary is concluded. This is where our DVR recording stopped and we couldn't capture the very last bit of it. We'll try to get our hands on some video that has the full commentary.
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Comments
The founding fathers would
Submitted by rbosque on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 5:20pm.
The founding fathers would have you deported.
Deportation was not an option...
Submitted by USMC8411 on Wed, 09/21/2011 - 6:31pm.
It isn't even in the Constitution! Th Constitution outlines the definition of a US Citizen and guarantees that the United States government will protect the states all our republic from foreign invaders.
Bashir is not a US Citizen. He is a guest of the Country, which in the days of the Founding Fathers, was not an issue!
Article III, section 3 of the Constitution states that, "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or in Confession in open Court."
I'd say Bashir is a foreign invader, subject to Treason. We should all report him to attackwatch..... Anyone second that?
Treason???
Submitted by wggmn3 on Tue, 10/18/2011 - 11:57pm.
Treason???...did you carefully watch & listen to this video???...did you even carefully read what you yourself wrote???...first of all Mr Bashir never claims that "The Constitution was meant to engineer society? ...." He is simply implying that those who have benefited the most from this free & wealthy nation in times of plenty should be ready to pitch in during its periods of economic crisis...you don't need to be a native to understand that...& we're ultimately talking about those who get incomes of a million or more per year (not merely the mere millionaires)..
The US Constitution & Taxation
Submitted by wggmn3 on Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:25am.
Article I, Section 8, Clause 1 (of the US Constitution) states:
"The Congress shall have power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises...but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States..."
Sadly silly & Mean-spirited...& stupid...
Submitted by wggmn3 on Tue, 10/18/2011 - 11:53pm.
Too many of the comments here are not only sadly silly but horrifyingly mean-spirited...let's hear only intelligent arguments, please...talk about stupid & undeveloped ideas...
Sadly silly & Mean-spirited...& stupid...
Submitted by wggmn3 on Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:03am.
Too many of the comments here are not only sadly silly but horrifyingly mean-spirited...let's hear only intelligent arguments, please...talk about stupid & undeveloped ideas...
Bashir?
Submitted by GigglingGoogler on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 5:28pm.
Facts? Why let facts get in the way? Bashir is a foreigner, he does NOT understand the United States, it's people or it's governance!
Bashir doesn't understand
Submitted by Newsbusterbrown on Wed, 09/21/2011 - 7:29am.
Bashir doesn't understand America because he's an idiot, not because he's a foreigner. Mark Steyn is a foreigner, yet he understands our country better than most native-born Americans.
“There are no easy answers, but there are simple answers. We must have the courage to do what we know is morally right.” - Ronald Reagan (1964 Republican Convention)
The US Constitution & Taxation
Submitted by wggmn3 on Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:26am.
Article I, Section 8, Clause 1 (of the US Constitution) states:
"The Congress shall have power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises...but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States..."
Brit Bashir tells us what the Constitution means
Submitted by Galvanic on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 5:31pm.
As Ken noted, the Founding Fathers were not big proponents of taxation, just as they were not proponents of Big Government. In abolishing the Articles of Confederation, they replaced a weak government with a stronger one, but not substantially bigger. They had few employees and no standing Army to speak of. They not only didn't write income tax into the Constitution, the Congress didn't pass an income tax until the Civil War, and a permanent income tax was not instituted until the 20th Century.
But this year has been marked by a strange, Leftist revision of history that has turned Ronald Reagan from an evil, minority-hating President to a wise Master of the Art of Compromise and Tax Raising, and the Founding Fathers from old, white male slave owners to proponents of income tax.
Strange indeed.
Taxation & The Constitution
Submitted by wggmn3 on Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:01am.
First of all the Constitution was written when this country was predominantly agricultural and considerably smaller both regarding geography and population. (And slavery was also rationalized.) Since the introduction of Federal Income Tax in 1913 the United States became a predominantly industrial nation as well as the leading nation in the world, not to mention one of the largest and the wealthiest. Thus I doesn't seem that income tax has hurt. It is obvious that government expenditures should be questioned and checked but income tax is not the culprit. Furthermore because of its wealth and global influence the Federal Government has taken on enormous responsibilities externally and internally. If you think that our government can protect its citizens, as well as our assumed obligations around the world, without Federal Income Tax I'm afraid you are anachronistically and ideologically kidding yourself...I'm sorry but things have a terrible habit of changing; it doesn't mean we can't have values and be on our guard...
I don't care if it's just me, but.....
Submitted by almostacowboy on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 5:38pm.
....when I hear a foreigner misrepresent or hijack our founding fathers in a pathetic attempt to bolster some pusillanimous progressive poppycock it really raises my hackles! Nearly as much as when liberals try to use the Bible to make a point.
I am so tired
Submitted by kata on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 5:47pm.
of the liberal left trying to use me, my income and my "class" as a weapon to rob the rich and engineer some kind of unachievable utopian ideal. This isn't Sherwood Forest and there is no Sheriff of Nottingham.
And think if this was his "takeaway" from his American History class in Britain I presume either he failed the class or the curriculum was liberalized to the point of non recognition.
The US Constitution & Taxation
Submitted by wggmn3 on Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:28am.
Article I, Section 8, Clause 1 (of the US Constitution) states:
The Congress shall have power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises...but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States...
There are only two types of taxes allowed by the constituion
Submitted by Vonu on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 5:49pm.
Direct and proportional, everyone pays the same. I call that fairness. Or should rich people pay more for their meat and potatoes, too?
Meat and Potatoes
Submitted by Kingfish17 on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 6:34pm.
"Rich" people actually do pay more for meat and potatoes.
"You can’t go take a trip to Las Vegas...on the taxpayer’s dime." Barack Obama
You saw this.
Submitted by upcountrywater on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 8:20pm.
"MY EBT " By @MREBT Produced By @CaptnHook_Maine ( OFFICIAL VIDEO )
The first 50 seconds are safe...watch the clock.. worth a view.
You Didn't Build That.
Bashir is nuttier than usual
Submitted by needle on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 5:59pm.
Income taxes were unconstitutional according to that silly old document they wrote 225 years ago.
Other than that Bashir, your analysis is spot on.
- Looking forward to the self-annihilation of the Manipulated Stories Machine.
The US Constitution & Taxation
Submitted by wggmn3 on Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:29am.
Article I, Section 8, Clause 1 (of the US Constitution) states:
The Congress shall have power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises...but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States...
Why Yes Martin, Of Course....
Submitted by bigdaddy on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 6:04pm.
...they liked taxes so much that they fought a freakin' war over it...
Bingo!
Submitted by octavioj on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 6:38pm.
When I read the news I had the same thought big daddy. Bravo.
Mr Bashir, the Constitution & Income Tax...
Submitted by wggmn3 on Tue, 10/18/2011 - 11:26pm.
I think they were primarily concerned with "taxation without representation..." I think you ought to carefully read your history...
You are full of Bravo Sierra, Bashir
Submitted by Dave. on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 7:30pm.
They would have never supported any form of a federal income tax, as they knew what a regressive and manipulative tax that would soon turn into.
Once you have decided that government has a claim on part of your life, as this country did when it passed the 16th Amendment, you have set yourself on a course for eventual government slavery.
And thanks to the aforementioned government menipulation in the form of moving more and more people off the tax rolls, we are now at the point where there may not be enough federal income tax payers to offset the votes of the net tax consumers come November of 2012.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November
On behalf of Britain, I would
Submitted by Jack Bauer on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 6:32pm.
On behalf of Britain, I would like to apologize to America for the smarmy, nastily ignorant Martin Bashir.
And don't forget, you can't spell Martin Bashir without SHIT.
All of the above Mr Obama? --- How about ALL OF THE BELOW, instead.
But wait, Jack......
Submitted by jon_torlin on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 7:24pm.
Why apologize for a foreigner, isn't he a foreigner in your land too? I think you know as well as I that there's no such thing as a Muslim "anything" like Muslim American or Muslim Brit, especially when Islam is in conflict with whatever non-Islamic country that Muslim goes to. A Muslim wouldn't be able to assimilate into your country anymore than ours without denouncing Islam. So really, you apology isn't quite correct.
The correct way is something like this, in our case for example: We apologize for not deporting this (and his bro'hood Fareed) back to whatever Muslim country they came from for their extremely clear anti-American intent.
Islam has no place in a civilized world.
-Jon
Hey Bashir, Since you live
Submitted by Antisocial-ism on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 6:34pm.
Hey Bashir, Since you live in reverso bizzarro world, I bet you are convinced all of your previous girlfriends left you because you were to endowed for them.
STFU, go back where you came from.
Sadly silly & Mean-spirited
Submitted by wggmn3 on Tue, 10/18/2011 - 11:47pm.
Too many of the comments here are not only sadly silly but horrifyingly mean-spirited resorting to childish name-calling (to be euphemistic, so that I also don't lower myself or this discussion)...let's hear only intelligent arguments, please...By the way, doesn't resorting to puerile name-calling ultimately say more about you...do you hear that kind of ad hominem attacks used on the Senate or Congressional floors...yet you seem to think you are the true American...
Return to your sand....
Submitted by jmigyanka@msn.com on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 7:21pm.
...dunes you flaming moooooooooooosleeeem; and take your camel brides with you.
Mr Bashir, the Constitution & Income Tax...
Submitted by wggmn3 on Tue, 10/18/2011 - 11:23pm.
By the way, doesn't resorting to puerile name-calling ultimately say more about you...do you hear that kind of ad hominem address used on the Senate or Congressional floors...yet you seem to think you are the true American...
Sadly silly & Mean-spirited
Submitted by wggmn3 on Tue, 10/18/2011 - 11:42pm.
Too many of the comments here are not only sadly silly but horrifyingly mean-spirited resorting to childish name-calling (to be euphemistic, so that I also don't lower myself or this discussion)...
Read the Big Government
Submitted by fatboy on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 9:03pm.
Read the Big Government article about how Obama got George Washington wrong and you'll see what a consummate and uninformed dope Bashir is. Sheesh!
How do you reason w/ fools?
Who's uninformed?...yeah, how do you?...
Submitted by wggmn3 on Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:32am.
Article I, Section 8, Clause 1 (of the US Constitution) states:
The Congress shall have power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises...but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States...
Clever Dick
Submitted by IrateNate on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 9:13pm.
Excuse me, Mr. Bashir, you massive ignoramus, but the Founding Fathers wouldn't have let you into the country. Ever hear of the Naturalization Act of 1790? Discounting the "free white person" aspect, you would certainly fail under the "good moral character" clause.
It's not that your opinion is not appreciated; it's just not appreciated here, in this country.
*new Mr Bashir, the Constitution & Income Tax...
Submitted by wggmn3 on Tue, 10/18/2011 - 11:20pm.
Are you sure you watched this video?...first of all Mr Bashir never claims that "The Constitution was meant to engineer society? ...." He is simply implying that those who have benefited the most from this free & wealthy nation in times of plenty should be ready to pitch in during its periods of economic crisis...you don't need to be a native to understand that...& we're ultimately talking about those who get incomes of a million or more per year (not merely the mere millionaires)..
Ohhh, by the way, doesn't resorting to puerile name-calling ultimately say more about you...do you hear that kind of ad hominem address used on the Senate or Congressional floors...yet you seem to claim being an American...
Taxes, we don't need any stinkin taxes
Submitted by richb313 on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 9:14pm.
During the time of the founding of this country the only taxes imposed were normally a type of sale tax, import and export taxes and the only thing that resembled property tax was I think a chimney tax.
The very idea of income taxes, capital gain taxes, federal excise fees, and a whole host of federal fees and taxes too numerous to mention would have struck the founders as not only insane but the one question all of them would ask is "How did you let it get this way in the first place? Have you people no idea why we fought the revolution in the first place?"
Thier predominat sentiment would be of disapointment that such a noble enterprise would come to this.
The US Constitution & Taxation
Submitted by wggmn3 on Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:35am.
At least you propose a developed argument as opposed to the majority here...here's mine...
First of all the Constitution was written when this country was predominantly agricultural and considerably smaller both regarding geography and population. (And slavery was also rationalized.) Since the introduction of Federal Income Tax in 1913 the United States became a predominantly industrial nation as well as the leading nation in the world, not to mention one of the largest and the wealthiest. Thus I doesn't seem that income tax has hurt. It is obvious that government expenditures should be questioned and checked but income tax is not the culprit. Furthermore because of its wealth and global influence the Federal Government has taken on enormous responsibilities externally and internally. If you think that our government can protect its citizens, as well as our assumed obligations around the world, without Federal Income Tax I'm afraid you are anachronistically and ideologically kidding yourself...I'm sorry but things have a terrible habit of changing; it doesn't mean we can't have values and be on our guard...
American's and entitlements
Submitted by Radical1979 on Tue, 09/20/2011 - 9:26pm.
Our founders would be revolted that Americans were expecting their government to take care of them. Self reliance was considered a virtue, and rather than singing about handouts, people avoided taking them.
Anyone catch the rap song about the EBT card on YouTube?
We founded a country to get away from A$$holes like this guy.
Submitted by HelloDare on Wed, 09/21/2011 - 2:08am.
Pardon my Anglo-Saxon.
Yep
Submitted by HockeyKid on Wed, 09/21/2011 - 8:08am.
Martin B*sh* strikes again.
"Beauty is only skin deep, but liberal's to the bone." - me
Our founding fathers would
Submitted by jessieH on Wed, 09/21/2011 - 9:25am.
Our founding fathers would have hung him for treason.
Mr Bashir, the Constitution & Income Tax...
Submitted by wggmn3 on Tue, 10/18/2011 - 11:11pm.
Are you sure you watched this video?...first of all Mr Bashir never claims that "The Constitution was meant to engineer society? ...." He is simply implying that those who have benefited the most from this free & wealthy nation in times of plenty should be ready to pitch in during its periods of economic crisis...you don't need to be a native to understand that...& we're ultimately talking about those who get incomes of a million or more per year (not merely the mere millionaires)..
Treason???...The US Constitution & Taxation
Submitted by wggmn3 on Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:38am.
Article I, Section 8, Clause 1 (of the US Constitution) states:
The Congress shall have power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises...but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States...
Bashir is Clueless
Submitted by pcnav on Wed, 09/21/2011 - 9:33am.
Being born in a country other than the USA, Bashir is allowing his formative upbringing to cloud the actual history that did happen in this country. This is common among foreigners that loved the socialist countries they came from. Ask for the same point of view from someone that was raised in the communist block...it will be different.
Mr Bashir, the Constitution & Income Tax...
Submitted by wggmn3 on Tue, 10/18/2011 - 11:08pm.
Mr Bashir never claims that "The Constitution was meant to engineer society? ...." He is simply implying that those who have benefited the most from this free & wealthy nation in times of plenty should be ready to pitch in during its periods of economic crisis...you don't need to be a native to understand that...& we're ultimately talking about those who get incomes of a million or more per year (not merely the mere millionaires)..
The wealthy do pitch in
Submitted by Radical1979 on Tue, 10/18/2011 - 11:15pm.
Bashir and the libs simply want them to pitch in EVERYTHING, that is, if they are conservative.
WOAH, wggmn3 is really wiggin out on this thread...
Submitted by upcountrywater on Wed, 10/19/2011 - 2:13am.
!
You Didn't Build That.
Can Marty spell...
Submitted by USMC8411 on Wed, 09/21/2011 - 6:12pm.
Solyndra Scandal? Lightsquared? Fast and Furious?
These stories have gotten the John Edwards treatment! Que the crickets...
BREAKING NEWS.....
Submitted by USMC8411 on Wed, 09/21/2011 - 6:09pm.
Hey Marty the conservative Basher... My recollection of history is that America kicked the crap out of your country and declared independence from the defective thought process of evolved apes like you! Take your damned dirty socialist paws off of my Country!
So why do you have a green card again? Why would you consider becoming a member of the Great Satan? Until you do become a citizen, go away. Maybe you should consider these factoids:
The Founding Fathers let God reside in the public square. The Founding Fathers demanded that all able-bodied men own a firearm for personal, and community protection. The Founding Fathers despised taxes, (see Tea Party dated; December 16, 1773!), the stamp act of 1765, and all of the other oppressive taxes levied by the king. The last thing the Founding Fathers wanted was a big government run by career "politicians" that have evolved today. There was no "wall of separation" and abortion would have shocked them into action along with welfare, food stamps, and unemployment... All of these things were provided by friends, family, and the Church... NOT government! By the way, your party has done everything to destroy the family, friendships (with class envy), and the Church!
The American Constitution & Income Tax...
Submitted by wggmn3 on Tue, 10/18/2011 - 10:54pm.
Too many of the comments here are not only silly but horrifyingly mean-spirited resorting to childish name-calling (to be euphemistic, so that I also don't lower myself or this discussion)...
First of all the Constitution was written when this country was predominantly agricultural and considerably smaller both regarding geography and population. (And slavery was also rationalized.) Since the introduction of Federal Income Tax in 1913 the United States became a predominantly industrial nation as well as the leading nation in the world, not to mention one of the largest and the wealthiest. Thus I doesn't seem that income tax has hurt. It is obvious that government expenditures should be questioned and checked but income tax is not the culprit. Furthermore because of its wealth and global influence the Federal Government has taken on enormous responsibilities externally and internally. If you think that our government can protect its citizens, as well as our assumed obligations around the world, without Federal Income Tax I'm afraid you are anachronistically and ideologically kidding yourself...I'm sorry but things have a terrible habit of changing; it doesn't mean we can't have values and be on our guard...
Ohhh, by the by, Mr Bashir never claims that "The Constitution was meant to engineer society? ...."
Don't fall off that soap box, there, wigman---
Submitted by matthewdean on Wed, 10/19/2011 - 1:56am.
cuz you might land amongst us common people.
If you don't like the comments, fine.
Continually belaboring the point, whether in order to pat yourself on the back or as a means of talking down at others merely makes you come across as a prig; albeit a prig who is running almost a month behind the times.
MD
MD, I wasn't sure where I was on the thread, like ah never endin
Submitted by upcountrywater on Wed, 10/19/2011 - 2:27am.
story.
First thread by the newbie....
Wonderin if he will wonder back...
You Didn't Build That.
upcountry---
Submitted by matthewdean on Wed, 10/19/2011 - 5:06am.
I'm sure the wigman will return.
Anyone who takes it upon himself to moralize like that while throwing out some historical snippets for our edification, quite likely plans to hang around as long as necessary in order to whip NB posters into the type of contributors he deems acceptable
MD.
"...but income tax is not the culprit."
Submitted by Dave. on Wed, 10/19/2011 - 3:17am.
So you are okay with the federal government claiming a portion of your life.
No wonder we are going down the crapper as a nation.
-Dave
Vote for the American in November