Update/Clarification [Nov. 10]: This issue is muddied a bit by redistricting and its effects on the geography of congressional representation. Swing State Project in June 2009 noted that "Almost two-thirds of the population of the current district (62%) live in territory" in the New York 23rd "that has not elected a Democrat since 1890 or earlier." However, a sizable part of the district (38%) includes parts of counties that as late as 1976 and 1978 voted Democratic in congressional races.
If you've heard it once, you've heard it 1,000 times: the New York 23rd Congressional District (NY-23) has had a Republican incumbent since the 1870s. It's a helpful talking point for mainstream media types bent on portraying the Hoffman loss in the district last night as evidence of how the Republican mainstream has moved away from conservatism.
The only trouble with the talking point is it is patently false and the New York Times can prove it. (h/t EyeBlast.tv's Stephen Gutowski)
From the 1990 obituary for one Samuel Stratton:
Story Continues Below Ad ↓He was the third-most senior Democrat on the Armed Services Committee when he announced in 1988 that his failing health prevented him from running for a 16th term.
He was first elected to the House in 1958, becoming the only Democrat in 42 years to be sent to Congress from what was then the 32d Congressional District in the Albany-Schenectady-Troy area.
Despite several redistrictings in a predominantly Republican area, he was returned to Congress with ease every two years and became dean of the New York delegation in January 1979. At his retirement, Mr. Stratton represented the 23d District.
Stratton retired in 1989 and was replaced by another Democrat, Michael McNulty, who held the seat from 1989-1992. Pursuant to redistricting, McNulty ran for and won election as the representative from New York's 21st district in 1992. Liberal Republican Sherwood Boehlert ran for and won election to NY-23 in 1992 and was succeeded by moderate John McHugh (R) after Boehlert was redistricted to the 24th district in 2002.
It appears this is one case where the mainstream media are wrong and Wikipedia is right.
—Ken Shepherd is Managing Editor of NewsBusters
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Those pesky facts always
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 17:52 ET by rollinghillsThose pesky facts always seem to get in the way!
Is anyone really surprised they just make things up?
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 18:05 ET by Thinking.ManChecking facts only happens when a non-marxist makes a comment, then every jot and tittle is double checked.
Leftist news media should embrace their philosophy and proclaim it from the roof tops.
"We make up the news, Fox just reports it"
"We make up the news,
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 18:28 ET by Dan The Man 2"We make up the news, Fox just reports it"
We make up the news, Fox reports the truth.
Facts, schmacks. They'll
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 18:17 ET by BuffNBoneFacts, schmacks. They'll just use the logic that the 32nd is not the same as the 23rd regardless of the kith and kin who have lived in the area since Ichabod Crane.
It's also a good news bad news story since the electoral votes are moving west and south. Good in that New York is losing them and bad that other blue states (California) are likely picking them up.
"Fighters are fun but bombers make policy"
CA and electoral votes
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 00:18 ET by UnsaneActually, something very interesting happened in the last census. CA for the first time (ever, IIRC) did not gain a Representative seat, and thus an electoral vote, as a result of the census. I suspect that the way things are going there, they may wind up coughing up an electoral vote, possibly two.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
What a glorious
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 17:54 ET by bigtimerWhat a glorious find...
Problem is...no one is going to pay a bit of attention when it comes to the leftist lemming talking heads in the msm with their typical Walks on Water agenda...they will still repeat the mantra...as will the NYTs and other print...
Some will maybe make a partial retraction on page 50 or something...but still keep up the hype...since they think they attempted their agenda and it's complete.
...As if it will do any damage to us at all in the first place.
JMHO.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
Thing keeps double posting!
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 17:56 ET by doug1950Well that would mean...
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 17:54 ET by nolotrippen...that the media is lying. This cannot be. Next they'll be telling me Favabean was a (say it with me) "moderate."
“It is almost impossible to distinguish a politician from a gangster.” (Will Durant, 1931)
Fact is
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 17:55 ET by doug1950the Republicans of 1870 were liberals. Just like the Democrats in the Old South were conservatives. Funny how things change.
Classic Liberalism
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 18:10 ET by Thinking.ManFrom the 1800's has nothing to do with progressive liberalism from the 20's.
Agree
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 18:23 ET by doug1950But they don't even know that. The media's lack of historical knowledge and ability to read the tea leaves is astounding. Journalism is dead on the left. It is now just tabloid trash and high school antics. It is no wonder their viewership is in the basement. They will do down swearing it was not their fault the whole time, just the ignorant, uneducated, uninformed masses.
→ Ha!
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 17:56 ET by Cool ArrowNancy will take her victories where she can invent them.
It was a lie, but itwasn't a "lie" lie.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
→ Timestamp
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 18:11 ET by Cool ArrowThis is a test.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
Cool:
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 18:19 ET by SickofLibsScreenshot it for the trial - just in case.
→ where's nwaaaaahsssss?
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 19:19 ET by Cool ArrowSeems like in another thread, nwahs (OK, he's not a conservative) was making fun of us for having been led astray into a mud puddle we thought was a hot tub.
Now here we have Nancy Pelosi proven wrong in her claim that NY-23 hasn't been held by a Dem since, what was it? . . . since the early 1900's or so?
But you'll notice nwaaahhhhhssss has nothing to say in this matter. Doubtless he'll saunter in momentarily to tell us how the two situations are different.
Wonder what he'd say if Palin or Limbaugh owed a retraction?
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
"it was a race where a
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 19:23 ET by Dan Diego"it was a race where a Republican has held the seat since the Civil War."
Politico link
i think it went back farther
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 20:38 ET by OuttaMyWaylike the Crusades or maybe the Roman Empire, Did the Nation of Isreal conquer the land after leaving Egypt?
Didn't the Dems have to...
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 11:50 ET by ontheright...slay a couple of T-Rexes before taking the seat? That's what I heard somewhere...
"Wonder what he'd say if
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 01:16 ET by ckc1227"Wonder what he'd say if Palin or Limbaugh owed a retraction?"
Before or after taking care of his anti-Limbaugh-inspired erection?
Fox news
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 18:18 ET by Joe CamelFox news channel just repeated the over 100 years item again at 17:14 PM CST..Been hearing it all day there.
Oh my
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 19:00 ET by acumenThis can only mean one thing.
Wikipedia is racist.
Plattsburgh NY is not the center of the universe....
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 18:30 ET by EvilCon555EvilCon555
...and that is where I proudly hail from...until 1987 when I moved to New Hampshire and thought I had found political Eden.....then the lib's moved north and we've been screwed since 2005 or so...
That said...the only reason Hoffman didn't make it in NY-23 was his forehead. Those of us from NY-23 have real issues with foreheads...and did anyone else think that when Scozzafava dropped out the forehead got bigger? You can put lipstick on a pig but it's hard to cover a forehead...did I say forehead enough?
What I mean to say is that NY-23 has issues. As a child of the district I can say that it is so devoid of commerce that the only real voting denizens are media types (local TV mostly) and teachers...the rest don't give a crap - they are trying to eek out a living owning convenience stores that cater to teachers, college students, and used car salesmen. And Canadians who come to visit now have parity on our dollar, and then some, so they have some influence...why yas! Times are tuff up there. I feel for them, they need Sarah to come up and give them a crash course on conservativism....cause that will save this terminally depressed area...we all know Hillary hasn't done S#**t.
I Love NY-23...but it needs to get it together...
EC555
"All great change in America begins at the dinner table" Ronald Reagan, Jan 21, 1981
I just read elsewhere online
Wed, 11/04/2009 - 20:16 ET by doug1950this bull about the seat being held by a Republican since the Civil War is just that...bs. they said the Dems had the seat in 1993. Easy enough to find out.
By The Way
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 01:09 ET by GeneralAlBy the way, Sam Stratton was a very Conservative Democrat. He supported President Reagan during the Iran-Contra fiasco. If he was alive today, he'd be A Conservative Republican! How do I know, I lived in his "Districts" in New York during my school days!
Right or wrong, the 23rd screwed it up
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 01:10 ET by jpn1Let's be clear about a few things:
First:
Scozzafava was selected by a bunch of county party chairmen in typical backroom good ol' boy political haggling because they thought she could beat Aubertine who didn't even run. Her selection had nothing to do with representing republican values or the values of the citzens of the 23rd. Even then, it wasn't a unanimous decision among the county chairmen. The pundits and analysts have completely missed the point on this one. If a republican primary was held and the voters were allowed to choose their own candidate that candidate would surely have beaten Owens.
As for this ridiculous argument about what party has represented the north country since the 1870s...
Putting forth a counter argument using members of congress (Stratton and McNulty) that never represented the north country is absurd. From WikiPedia the 23rd encompassed:
Strangely, these counties are nowhere near the current 23rd.
For those of you playing at home, the locations stay the same but the districts change regularly (the Dems are the kings of gerrymandering in New York. See the NY28th and NY22nd). The Wiki entries list the representatives of the district regardless of the geography at the time.
For example, Oswego County has been variously in the 23rd, 24th, 29th, 32nd, 34th, and 35th.
It is not only possible, but very likely that counties in the north country have been republican for over a century.
Let's see if the party leaders can pull it together to win back the 23rd next November.
Can Someone Please Tell Charles Johnson of LGF
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 02:32 ET by PooveyAbout this? I have been banned for several months after disagereeing. I guess he is the new "Arianna Huffington".
And you care about that
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 02:48 ET by Jack BauerAnd you care about that mental case, obsessive idiotic jerk because...?
I sometimes stop by LGF when
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 08:42 ET by SickofLibsI sometimes stop by LGF when I feel the need to see a closeup photo of a leaf or watch a video of some obscure acoustic guitar player no one ever heard of.
And these things elicit hundreds of comments - I guess I'm not erudite enough to appreciate it.
I got banned also
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 19:05 ET by TheHistorianafter I dared to ask his majesty to explain the evolution of the eye and pointed out how the "Big Bang" was a nickname a bunch of liberals gave to a theory that they held in low repute. That it turns out to be the science of truth is the fate of liberalism; just like Lysanov in the USSR, liberal dogma and disdain cannot replace science.
Mr. Johnson is an arrogant idiot who thinks his gas is inspiration.
"What experience and history teach is
this - that people and governments never have learned anything from history,
or acted on principles deduced from it."
G. W. F. Hegel
It's a technicality
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 03:42 ET by fenngibbonThe problem is that as districts are reworked (and in NY it's because we're losing seats), the 23rd has moved around quite a bit. I suspect it would be more accurate to say that the North Country hasn't elected a Democrat in more than 100 years. The Albany-Schenectady-Troy area isn't the same as Watertown-Potsdam-Plattsburgh (and I say that as someone who's lived in both areas).
Even accepting your
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 10:07 ET by Ken ShepherdEven accepting your argument, which sounds like a valid one on some levels, the talking point has been the district itself has been solidly GOP since the Civil War or 1870s or Reconstruction (pick your mutation of the meme).
Now, that is just risible and easily disproven. If the media want to glom onto a talking point, they need to find one that is true. So let's say some of those counties or say the city of Watertown has never gone for a Democrat since the 1870s in a congressional race. Okay, say that. But to say the district as a whole is patently false.
Dem Owens won a historically Republican seat
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 07:28 ET by ekslibbecause there was no Republican running for the seat.
Dede removed herself from the race.
And Obama eliminated the other Republican (McHugh) from the race, by making him Secretary of the Army.
It's pretty silly to pretend a Republican lost this race to Owens.
The real problem is that the 23rd screwed up
Thu, 11/05/2009 - 19:11 ET by TheHistorianIt is not just the pols who blew it. The voters also blew it by electing another Pelosi supporter. I hope they like the public option medical care they get from Owens being on the Pelosi "team".
What it proves is not that the district is not Republican, nor that it is conservative, but that its voters will pull the lever for a Democrat over a conservative. May they enjoy their soon-to-become second rate country. You have to hold the voters responsible for their decisions, not just blame it on the "party".
"What experience and history teach is
this - that people and governments never have learned anything from history,
or acted on principles deduced from it."
G. W. F. Hegel