Newsweek's Evan Thomas on 'The Case for Killing Granny'

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A prudent gerontologist may opt to remove the September 21 edition of Newsweek from his waiting room.

Newsweek.com today has a cheeky frontpage headline in "The Case for Killing Granny," with a subheader promising an explanation as to "Why curbing excessive end-of-life care is good for America."

For good measure the magazine also promises readers to explain "Why We Should Insure Illegals" and how "Health Reform Could Combat Crime" in related articles linked on the front page. More illegal immigration, fewer criminals and old people. What a deal!

The "Killing Granny" link takes readers to a September 21 print edition article by Evan Thomas which is more measured in tone than the sensational headline suggests, but one that nonetheless laments how Medicare, presently structured, has a built-in bias towards heavy per-patient spending with too little government bureaucrat oversight (emphasis mine):

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...By training and inclination, doctors want to do all they can to cure ailments. And since Medicare pays by procedure, test, and hospital stay—though less and less each year as the cost squeeze tightens—there is an incentive to do more and more. To make a good living, doctors must see more patients, and order more tests.

All this treatment does not necessarily buy better care. In fact, the Dartmouth studies have found worse outcomes in many states and cities where there is more health care. Why? Because just going into the hospital has risks—of infection, or error, or other unforeseen complications. Some studies estimate that Americans are overtreated by roughly 30 percent. "It's not about rationing care—that's always the bogeyman people use to block reform," says Dr. Elliott Fisher, a professor at Dartmouth Medical School. "The real problem is unnecessary and unwanted care."

Paying doctors per-procedure is not cheap, and Thomas makes clear that significant federal overhaul of health care would require reining in the cost of Medicare, a must-do in order to ensure the financial solvency of covering millions of younger, healthier Americans (emphasis mine):

But how do you decide which treatments to cut out? How do you choose between the necessary and the unnecessary? There has been talk among experts and lawmakers of giving more power to a panel of government experts to decide—Britain has one, called the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (known by the somewhat ironic acronym NICE). But no one wants the horror stories of denied care and long waits that are said to plague state-run national health-care systems. (The criticism is unfair: patients wait longer to see primary-care physicians in the United States than in Britain.) After the summer of angry town halls, no politician is going to get anywhere near something that could be called a "death panel."

There's no question that reining in the lawyers would help cut costs. Fearing medical-malpractice suits, doctors engage in defensive medicine, ordering procedures that may not be strictly necessary—but why take the risk? According to various studies, defensive medicine adds perhaps 2 percent to the overall bill—a not-insignificant number when more than $2 trillion is at stake.

Thomas then concluded that "economic reality may force us to adopt a national health-care system like Britain's or Canada's" in the future but "before that day arrives, there are steps we can take to reduce costs without totally turning the system inside out," including end-of-life counseling (emphasis mine):

Although demagogued as a "death panel," a program in Wisconsin to get patients to talk to their doctors about how they want to deal with death was actually a resounding success. A study by the Archives of Internal Medicine shows that such conversations between doctors and patients can decrease costs by about 35 percent—while improving the quality of life at the end. Patients should be encouraged to draft living wills to make their end-of-life desires known. Unfortunately, such paper can be useless if there is a family member at the bedside demanding heroic measures. "A lot of the time guilt is playing a role," says Dr. David Torchiana, a surgeon and CEO of the Massachusetts General Physicians Organization. Doctors can feel guilty, too—about overtreating patients. Torchiana recalls his unease over operating to treat a severe heart infection in a woman with two forms of metastatic cancer who was already comatose. The family insisted.

Studies show that about 70 percent of people want to die at home—but that about half die in hospitals. There has been an important increase in hospice or palliative care—keeping patients with incurable diseases as comfortable as possible while they live out the remainder of their lives. Hospice services are generally intended for the terminally ill in the last six months of life, but as a practical matter, many people receive hospice care for only a few weeks.

Our medical system does everything it can to encourage hope. And American health care has been near miraculous—the envy of the world—in its capacity to develop new lifesaving and life-enhancing treatments. But death can be delayed only so long, and sometimes the wait is grim and degrading. The hospice ideal recognized that for many people, quiet and dignity—and loving care and good painkillers—are really what's called for.

In other words, American health care is "miraculous," but miracles don't come cheap and can't be afforded for everyone, especially when medicine is socialized.

Thomas's article makes abundantly clear that socializing American medicine to a greater degree will come at the cost of doctors and patients being the sole persons determining the course of medical care. Bringing third-party pressure to bear to keep costs down will be "good for America," even if it means granny has to give up earlier on life than she was ready to.

—Ken Shepherd is Managing Editor of NewsBusters


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Trying Something New

Interesting that Newsweek is trying to be honest.  At least they are trying something new.

The Obama administration has relied on its media allies to cover up all the really negative consequences of health care reform.  Unfortunately for them, voters have read the proposed legislation.  And now Newsweek feels compelled to try and make the case for saving money by cutting Granny's life a little shorter.

Democrats are in big trouble already over this, Cap and Trade and their entire big government vision. 

http://conservativeblog.thewebinfocenter.com

I was down with bad

I was down with bad allergies this weekend and watched a lot of television. Among the shows I watched were a lot of  programs on Discovery Health - like "Trauma Life in the ER", "Untold Stories of the ER", and "Mystery Diagnosis". What struck me, besides the extraordinary effort and compassion of many of our healthcare workers, was the realization that our health care system costs a lot of money because we have the finest health care - amazing drugs, equipment, procedures, operations, and doctors and nurses. I'm afraid a lot of this will go away as we convert a lot of professionals into grim, indifferent bureaucratic functionaries, working with out of date equipment and medicine in deteriorating facilities.

The "Mainstream" Media: By liberals. For liberals.

This is all an outgrowth of

This is all an outgrowth of the abortion culture.

We dehumanized the smallest among us because they were "unplanned" or "inconvenient" or "expensive" and now we're dehumanizing the elderly and the ill because they, too, are "inconvienient" and "expensive" to care for (read: I want my time and my money to be unfettered by something as icky as caring for old people or babies).

Pro-lifers predicted this years ago; socialized medicine just helps the state make this seem morally and ethically justified.

Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

Did you know that America

Did you know that America has the 6th highest abortion rate in the world? While Canada, which is apparently some kind of socialist healthcare nightmare is only number 14?

http://www.google.ca/#hl=en&source=hp&q=abortion+rates+per+country&btnG=...

outgrowth of the abortion culture indeed.

BTW. I didn't kill my granny..honest

Could it be?

Maybe in Canada the abortion wait-list is too long....

 

"Four legs good... two legs better!" - George Orwell

→ IJ shoots! He scores

We'll never know how much truth there is in that statement.

And given the money, under the table, Doctors can get for this procedure, I suspect you have a huge point.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

Thanks, CA

Very little filter between thought and keyboard for me.   ;^)

And btw, I see you went back to your old tag. I was going to ask about that. The new one, while hilarious, had me LOL-ing, no doubt, also struck me as a little... unseemly, maybe?

Kind of like "tea-baggers," I guess.

Regards,
IJ 

 

"Four legs good... two legs better!" - George Orwell

→ Yes it was, IJ

It was just one of those "innocent" acronymical accidents I'm prone to.

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

So for Pro-Lifers that would

So for Pro-Lifers that would be a good thing right? Waiting list too long..well just go ahead and have the baby!

→ mandrake

How is having the baby a bad thing for the baby?

I really want to know how it's better that the child dies.  You're the one who slipped up and called it a baby.

Now defend your remark as it pertains to "the baby".

LYDSEXICS UNTIE!

I never said I wanted a

I never said I wanted a 'baby' to die. I was simply pointing out an upside to the supposedly long lineups for healthcare in Canada. It was someone else who brought up the subject that healthcare reform was driven by the culture of abortion..not me. (look several posts above)

Also, I didn't kill my grandpa either ;) 

Well, pregnancy IS one

Well, pregnancy IS one "condition" that time, in and of itself, will "cure."

But, wait... doesn't that take the woman's choice out of the equation?

So, for "Pro-choicers," that would be a bad thing, right?

 

"Four legs good... two legs better!" - George Orwell

Now Now IJ, you know there

Now Now IJ, you know there is no such thing as a "Pro-choicer". There are only "Pro-abortionists"..Gotta keep the language straight man!

Sure, mandrake,

Just like there is no such thing as a "Pro-lifer."

There are only "Nazis."

 

"Four legs good... two legs better!" - George Orwell

IJ, will you stop putting

IJ, will you stop putting words into my mouth..please. If I wanted that I'd go to a library and eat some books...have a good evening :)

Putting words in YOUR mouth? Never.

You used the term "pro-abortionist" to correct my use of "pro-choicer." No one on this thread used that term until you did. Was that YOU putting words in MY mouth? Or was that YOUR word?

I never implied YOU would use that word, did I? Or did YOU just find a shoe that seemed to fit? My, we're presumptuous today, aren't we?

Have a great night.  ;^)

 

"Four legs good... two legs better!" - George Orwell

Evan Thomas

When Medicare was passed, what were the expectations that were created by the demigodic politicians who promoted it? Was it the unintended consequence of a seperate payroll tax to support it in addition tothe monthly premiums it collected? Were they the esstimates of cost made by "government experts" the same ones telling us about the cost of Obamacare, off by a minimum factor of 10? Was it the promise of affordability of the program, which has become the largest single budgetary concern, with an unfunded liability of $31TRILLION and growing?No, it wasn't any of these, but the promises were made to provide the care, which they now want to "control" in order to help finance a similar scheme on a larger scale.Bush was crucified by the usual sources for requesting $92 billion in cuts over 5years. BO wants to cut $500 billion over the next 10 and the fawning white media doesn't even bat an eye, in fact his biggest kiss asses at Newsweek, give us this. The sheeple are supposed to believe an average of $18.4 billion per year cut is horrible, but a $50 billion average cut is good, and that simultaneously their will be no impact on service or treatment. Whatever these guys are smoking, I want some.

Anybody who thinks this is

Anybody who thinks this is only about performaning heart transplants on 98-year-old comatose heart attack victims with little chance of recovery has a lot to learn.  A LOT.

They need to read up on some of the philosophy underlying these questons of who to pay for, and what to pay for.  

I'm glad, though, that somebody has the guts enough to present it as "The Case for Killing Granny," because that is exactly what it is:  Killing Granny.  And making her end of life years miserable and disfunctional.  Not simply refraining from extraordinary measures.

 

Well, just look around

Youtube.  I saw one "Grandma Got Run Over By Obama" parody video.  Now my mom is hoping there is some sort of health care.  Her mom lived until 95.  If we get this mess, there's no way in my mind she even gets close to 95.

The news and issues discussed here:  http://absurditiesnlife.blogtownhall.com/

The more these people push

The more these people push socialized medicine, the more they step right in it. And the poll numbers show it.

Terminal foot-in-mouth disease.

 

"Four legs good... two legs better!" - George Orwell

The public option should be left to the public

Evan Thomas's article seems to make a case for the government staying out of health care and leaving he decisions to the individual, their family and physicians. Confusingly, Evan lays the groundwork for no government run health care in his laying out the flaws in Medicare in the context of his mother's plight. He seems to make the argument that if we just let people make the decision they think best, the health care system would not be burdened. He ends his article asserting the ending was "what my mother wanted." So why then can't we get the same choice? We have these choices, they are God given and we do not need the government in any manifestation inserting itself into such decisions.
If we take this a step further, perhaps the 11% of people 0bama seems to want help, those people with no insurance/health care or are unhappy with their health care, need to be given the counseling Evan and 0bama are advancing. Perhaps these people need to accept the reality of the inevitable. Given that educators are compelled by law to teach Darwinism, evolution and the concepts therein, shouldn't these people be compelled as well to walk the walk. Shouldn't we practice what is preached? Shouldn't we let natural selection work its eventual task of survival of the fittest? In doing so, we would be left with a population content with its healthcare and therefore the contrived need for government intervention in healthcare goes away.
I realize this seems a bit grim, but I am trying to play along with 0bama, Holdren, Emanuel and the rest of these social engineers who seem take a survival of the planet attitude while not caring about the survival of humanity.

The problem with Evan Thomas' analysis

If you begin with the statistic that 80% of the care (and cost) goes to the "last year of life," you're already missing the reality of healthcare. The problem with that statistic is that it can only be known after the fact. After the patient dies, you can calculate how much you spent during the patient's "death cycle." But you don't know that at the beginning of the death cycle. When you start, you usually just think that the patient is going through a rough patch. By the time you realize it's hopeless, you've already spent the time and money. The uncertainty can't be eliminated.

By the same token, does any doctor think they can spot the disease, and say with confidence how long the patient has to live? Few prognoses can be that accurate. And does any doctor want to declare that as soon as they see a disease, they're going to deny treatment? It's always going to be a human guess. The uncertainty can't be eliminated.

Finally, as it stands now, when a person and his family goes through the death cycle, they make decisions by balancing the cost of care against the value of the expected quality time spent with loved ones. When they turn it over to "professional experts," the experts can't measure the value of quality time. All they can evaluate is the cost - which means that the family's desire for more time with a loved one is inevitably going to be pushed aside because of cost.  Cost isn't the only value involved in healthcare.

Simple

Once you're diagnosed with any "terminal" disease, we stop providing care. After all, you're "terminal," i.e., "hopeless."

But don't you dare call us a "death panel." We are "cost/benefit analysts."

 

"Four legs good... two legs better!" - George Orwell

I volunteer Evan Thomas to

I volunteer Evan Thomas to be the first one. 

Second

I second the motion.

 

"Four legs good... two legs better!" - George Orwell

Evan Thomas "YOU LIE!"

Charging that MDs order more diagnostic tests because they get paid by the procedure demonstrates either a total lack of understanding of health care, the law, or both.

Primary care physicians are paid the same for the examination whether they order 0 or 100 diagnostic tests.  When another physician, such as a radiologist, interprets the results and sends the report to the ordering physican only the radiologist is paid.  The results may prompt a follow-up office vist for treatment purposes, but many times the results are phoned to the patient.  No extra $ for anybody.  Radiologists don't refer patients for tests and primary care physicians don't perform them.

Also, there are now 2 laws on the books (Stark I and Stark II) that make it "per se" illegal for an MD to refer a patient for a "designated health service" (DHS includes labs and radiology among many other services) to an entity in which he/she has an ownership or other financial interest unless it falls under a "safe harbor."  Most states also have a prohibition against self-referrals.

Does it happen still?  Probably in some cases (part of Obeyme's $500 billion in "low-hanging fruit" fraud anyone?) 

Now the part about MDs practicing defensive medicine I can absolutely believe.  

Remember Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

Let's just build special places where we can encourage the elderly to go when its time. So it doesn't sound too awful we'll call it "Going home." It will be a nice place with lovely music and they can watch a special film as they ebb away... 

 

 

I hope

stratman pastes his argument for this article here for all to see. 

Katainkent: Thank you for

Katainkent:

Thank you for your recognition.  I'll link back to the post via your initial comment which led to my post.

Many of my points have been brought up in this thread already.  We have excellent members on NB's!  Not backslapping myself, just recognizing you and the other savvy posters.

Some corrections/comments on Thomas' article:

  • Medicare pays by diagnosis.  Paying by hospital stay is so 1982.  (DRG's instituted nationwide in 1983)
  • Physicians see more and more patients to make the same income because insurers reimburse less for the same work for decades now.  It's simple math Mr. Thomas, but I get your eevil profiteering angle all the same.
  • "Unwanted care" - it's battery if it's "unwanted" care, Mr. Thomas.  Or are you saying patients don't want the care but go along because they trust their physician to make decisions in the patient's best interest?  That's called "human nature" to not want to undergo strange and sometimes painful procedures in the quest to improve health.  The flip side is care given to a patient not of sound mind who is combative - that may be "unwanted" but it is not requisitely battery or eevil.
  • "Patients wait longer to see PCP in the US than in Britain." - Funny, I see same day patients in an otherwise by appointment office.  There are numerous methods of scheduling to accommodate same day visits.   Also, how is adding millions more patients to the rosters, paying physicians less, and having more physicians close their doors to ObamaCare patients because the reimbursement hardly covers expenses going to improve wait times?
  • How should the reader square Thomas' appearant contradiction that physicians/hospitals are major cost drivers due to ordering all those self-enriching tests (LIE) and unwanted care BUT then say tort refom would minimally impact overall healthcare costs?  Is it defensive medicine of greed?  I guess Mr Thomas thinks if tort reform would save 2% only then why do it at all.  Or is it whatever works to villify the system and push Socialized Medicine while keeping our political allies protected?  How many sides of his mouth can Thomas speak out of?
  • Death Panels may be inflammatory, but, that is what Zek Emanuel and Tom Daschle have written and spoken about - Uninvolved bureaucrats making care decisions based on actuarial tables without regard to the actual patient and their Quality of Life.
  • Hospice is a good thing.  The "good" pain meds are actually appropriately prescribed pain meds.  The same meds are available to non-hospice physicians but there is fear of litigation even if the narcotics are prescribed properly.  Thanks to plaintif's attorney (again), as well as a fear of State and DEA investigations, patients may be under-medicated.  No wonder Pain Management is a burgeoning business.
  • "But death can be delayed only so long, and sometimes the wait is grim and degrading." Yes it can be.  How about you, Mr. Thomas, decide what's best for you and let everyone else decide for themselves too.

You may have read the following from me before.  I think it bears repeating for its exquisite simplicity, veracity and timeliness.

Healthcare can be

  1. Cheap
  2. Fast
  3. Good

But it can only be any two at one time.

Which two do you choose?

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