Oh, the Navy's gone and done it. They've made the pirates angrier, and hence more dangerous.
Newsweek's Mark Hosenball and Michael Isikoff predicted in their April 15 piece that the future of pirate encounters off the Horn of Africa will only result in more "Blood in the Water," because it will "radicalize the [Somali] population" according to some insurance and shipping experts.
Before the demise of three of the Maersk Alabama pirates, the Somali pirates were downright nice bad guys, aside from hijacking unarmed civilian shipping vessels and yachts:
But according to both [Control Risks analyst Hannah] Koep and [Lloyd's Register-Fairplay Middle East correspondent Jim] Wilson, over the past year or two there have been numerous incidents in which Somali pirates have attacked merchant ships in the gulf and taken crews and/or ships hostage for ransom. But until very recently, they note, violence to crew members has been minimal, and in most cases cargo and crew were released unharmed. Wilson says one captain was taken ashore and subjected by pirates to "mock executions." But the captain was not injured, and Wilson says the pirates apparently only wanted to frighten him as part of a "negotiating tactic."
Oh, those lovable pirates and their mock executions. They were perfectly harmless until our Navy SEALs dispatched three of them. Now we're just asking for it:
Koep warns, "The use of force raises the stakes for pirates and the international community." Although U.S. Navy representatives have emphasized the deterrent effect of the recent operation, the International Maritime Bureau has cautioned that military interventions may spur the pirates to more violent measures.
Hosenball and Isikoff failed to find any security or military consultants who would argue that Koep and Wilson are wrong or wrong-headed in their approach to securing civilian sea traffic.
—Ken Shepherd is Managing Editor of NewsBusters




















Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Newsweek = pro pirate
April 17, 2009 - 11:18 ET by expatriotSeeing how this report comes from Newsweek it should be expected that they will be on the side of the pirates and against the US Military.
They forget to mention that all the ransoms paid are passed on to the consumer in the form of higher prices for the goods transported.
Fortunately Newsweek is soon to be defunct.
The only thing missing is the Bush bashing.
April 17, 2009 - 11:33 ET by kg"DumbAssity of Dope"
Advice to Meacham -- Urge Prosecution of the Alabama Crew
April 17, 2009 - 11:47 ET by allanfMeacham missed the big one. Urge Holder to prosecute the crew of the Alabama for assaulting the pirates. It ties in nicely with Newsweeks position on the Iraq War
Pirates = Somali "Coast Guard"
April 17, 2009 - 19:27 ET by PopularTechROFLMAO!
Obama: "Cap & Trade Will Cause Electricity Rates To Skyrocket"
Did Newsweek call Obama a baby killer?
April 17, 2009 - 11:21 ET by Dee BunkIt was his order right?
Funny how when a few rouge soldiers @ Abu Graib act inappropriately without orders, it's Bush's fault, but when it's supposedly a clear order from Obama - it's still the rotten Military.
The media gives Obama the credit for solving the problem but yet still attacks the people who actually solved it. It's so nuts.
"The media gives Obama the
April 17, 2009 - 11:36 ET by mattm"The media gives Obama the credit for solving the problem but yet still attacks the people who actually solved it. It's so nuts."
Exactly!
For a few years I have been trying to figure out if Libtards are simply ignorant or if they are evil (especially the ones advocating and implementing oppressive socialistic policies), but I now realize I have overlooked a third possibility: They are insane. (Of course, it could be all of the above)
I think it's all of the above mattm
April 17, 2009 - 11:47 ET by Dee BunkThey're so lost and vacant inside that they have to project all kinds of crap on others to try and make themselves feel better. It's neurotic, evil, and ignorant.
It's been my observation
April 17, 2009 - 13:09 ET by SpaceManSpiffIt's been my observation that it's a mix of all of the above. Downright sinister and evil forces are taking advantage of ignorance and mental incompetence.
Pacifists, Idealists, Socialists, and the Gullible are all being led down the road to ruin by an evil band of Pied Pipers.
Until we repeal universal suffrage, our nation is doomed.
I've said it before...
April 17, 2009 - 12:27 ET by Indiana Joe... and I'll say it again: when it comes to being a "Teflon President," Ronald Reagan has nothing on The One. The media will always shield him from any criticism they've happily thrown at any other president... Rep or Dem.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."-John Adams
Right IJoe - but it was kind of opposite with Reagan
April 17, 2009 - 13:45 ET by Dee Bunkthe media attacked him mercilessly and the people saw through it. Now with Obama the media shields him like crazy and we have to pray that eventually people will see the radical for what he really is.
LOL. Same stupidity we heard on fighting the terrorists
April 17, 2009 - 11:21 ET by krendlerThe lefty "logic", once again, being: "If you resist the pirates, you're only going to create more pirates." So do nothing, or just throw "butter" (money) at the countries involved.
Whatever you do though, don't hurt the thugs and murderers. You'll only create more.
Idiots.
Interesting how, on the one
April 17, 2009 - 12:33 ET by Indiana JoeInteresting how, on the one hand, they insist on treating terrorism (and, by extension, piracy) as criminal, rather than military, problems.
Yet, OTOH, they refuse to follow the logic to actual criminal behavior, as reflected in crime-statistics, to wit: where citizens are able to and do defend themselves with firearms, crime rates invariably go down. "More violence" does NOT create "more criminals," it actually creates less.
Shoot, there I go using logic against a liberal argument again. Sorry, I know I'm just wasting bandwidth.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."-John Adams
Mock Executions
April 17, 2009 - 11:30 ET by bioteachedHmmm . . . I seem to remember reading somewhere that mock executions were a form of torture and were illegal under the Geneva Convention. I guess what is good for the pirates is not good for the safety of the American public is another takeaway message here.
I am not sure where the idea started, but I am all for the U.S. Navy disguising naval vessels as cargo ships and springing the trap on the pirates. It would at least make them think twice about going after U.S. flagged ships!
"I seem to remember reading
April 17, 2009 - 12:38 ET by Indiana Joe"I seem to remember reading somewhere that mock executions were a form of torture..."
You're right, that does sound familiar... hmm... wasn't it called "water-" something, or something- "boarding?"
I can't quite remember... anyway, they were just "mock" executions, so what's the big deal, right?
</sarc off>
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."-John Adams
Spain Charges Somali Pirates With Torture
April 17, 2009 - 11:31 ET by OxyCon...for staging mock executions on a hostage in an extortion attempt!
REALLY?
April 17, 2009 - 12:41 ET by Indiana JoeNice to know some country still has a pair. Or is at least consistent! Do they actually have any pirates in custody? Coz, if they mean the one we have, we probably won't turn him over for that.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."-John Adams
No
April 17, 2009 - 13:10 ET by OxyConI was being sarcastic. Don't hold your breath waiting for Spain to charge terrorists with torture.
I plead brain cramp
April 19, 2009 - 15:27 ET by Indiana JoeYeah, I forgot, they're the ones who rolled over electorally for the terrorists. Duh.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."-John Adams
Pirates used torture?
April 17, 2009 - 11:32 ET by SickofLibsI hope we don't hear that they put captured crewmen in confinement boxes with a caterpillar, because that would really be drawing a line in the sand.
No, no...NOT the wooly
April 17, 2009 - 22:59 ET by CT PatriotNo, no...NOT the wooly caterpillar with its soft fuzzy body hair that tickles my nose, anything but that..!!
(quivering in the corner like a wounded rabbit)
noooo,..someone, anyone, please help...help...
-------------------------------------------------------
And on a side note:
I think that to torture any Islamic terrorist would be as simple as having them be forced to eat bacon-lettuce-tomato sandwiches served to them by Jewish lesbians in string bikinis while they sing our National Anthem.
------------------------------------------------------
I got yer torture right here, Ahmad. Now go fix me a turkey pot-pie.
These guys can always come
April 17, 2009 - 11:34 ET by Chris NormanThese guys can always come up with what they think is a "well-reasoned" and "thoughtful" rationale for curling up in the fetal position and doing absolutely nothing, can't they? Call it the "Bill Moyers Doctrine"
The "Mainstream" Media: By liberals. For liberals.
Finally!
April 17, 2009 - 11:34 ET by GRPruittI will give them credit for consistency, but that is about it. During the GWB years all we heard was how actively attacking terrorists led to the creation of more terrorists. I did not notice that line of thinking with the recent Somali pirate incident - Until now. Personally, I would think the remaining pirates might think twice before attacking an American flagged vessal, but that is just me.
Kill 'em.
April 17, 2009 - 11:40 ET by WhoIsJohnGaltAnd if it makes them angry and they retaliate, kill even more of 'em. And so on, until they get the message. Isn't that the basic idea of a military conflict?
And if the lib response is "Well, they'll just attack more of us", then we use a bigger weapon, until they do get the message. Blow the entire buch of them right out of the water, no taking prisoners and putting them on trial or negotiating with them or promising to give them millions in aid if they'll just be nice.
Show me one conflict where the aggressor backed off because the attacked party decided to be nice and not retaliate...
Absolute airheads. Maybe we should ask Garafalo to take her large, enlightened liberal brain over there and show the rest of us how it's done. But one caveat...if they take her and demand ransom, she's entirely on her own to use that well-formed limbic brain to get herself out of the mess. End of her.
sick
April 17, 2009 - 13:14 ET by RowaneI've been well past sick and tired of this utter twit for years, the country would be a lot better off if she did just as you suggest.
Does anyone recall a few
April 17, 2009 - 11:45 ET by Dan The Man 2Does anyone recall a few years back the Carjackings epidemic? It seemed that it was easy to carjack someone and the penalties for doing so were very minor. So when the criminals discovered "the market" was wide open and profit verses loss potential was high, being the entrapanuers they are they started expanding the market. That is until laws were enacted and enforced and then it died down to a trickle.
The Somalians are no different and we must show them force and tell them no or they will continue and expand "the market". So to me its very simple. We should only protect our ships with force though and leave the rest to teh vultures. Unless we are paid handsomely.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
The only way to please, is
April 17, 2009 - 11:45 ET by ThisnThatThe only way to please, is to appease. Europe appeased Hitler. Why? To make sure he didn't get violent. All that did was to allow Hitler to get stronger, until he could attack with confidence.
Appease the pirates? They will get stronger, more confident, and bolder. At some point they will be strong enough to attack in force. Then the U.S. will be called in to deal with a stonger enemy.
But don't tell this to a liberal. History means nothing to these people -- only agendas do.
___________________________________
The challenge is to follow a consistent plan despite inconsistent prices - Sarah Palin, State of the State of Alaska speech
Thanks for keeping me up with Newsweek
April 17, 2009 - 11:48 ET by StarAZI cancelled due to excessive Obamanism there. I felt a little sick at three simultaneous head shots, but the navy was looking out for an American citizen, and that is the govt's job. This is a tough world. Now, though, what can we do about this? It is just going to continue...whether they are outraged or not. And might I add that the contention that the pirates (can we get another less half-humorous, half-romantic term, like seagoing armed robbers?) were cross about ecological atrocities--well, that took at least the cupcake in this. Why did I even learn to read if I had to read that?
Head shots
April 17, 2009 - 13:36 ET by BlondeWhy would three simultaneous head shots make you a little sick? I should think it would make us all stand up and cheer at the justice of it. They got exactly what they deserved.
A little ditty over at Blackfive.
The Navy SeAL, when asked by the reporter "what did you feel as you delivered the fatal shot to the pirate", paused for a moment, then replied "recoil".
I hope he fails, too.
Love it, Blonde.
April 17, 2009 - 22:04 ET by Mike BrattonLight Fifty sniper rifle? $8,250.
Ammunition? $6.50 a round.
"Recoil"? Priceless.
There are some things money can't buy.
For everything else, there's MasterCard.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
I thought it was really
April 17, 2009 - 11:48 ET by 10ksnookerCool how cammander ZERO ordered those teenager volunteer coasties killed. Showed who was in charge.
Go Pirates!
April 17, 2009 - 11:51 ET by lotrSo, what are they proposing? That the U.S. should've just ignored the incident and let the selfless brave captain fend for himself? That they should've just handed over to the pirates the ransom they asked for?
Call me old school, but my understanding regarding basic behavior modification is that positive reinforcement leads to more of the same behavior, whereas negative reinforcment suppresses more of the same behavior. If the behavior is repeated after negative reinforcement, then you simply have to continue to follow through consistently with it until the behavior does indeed eventually stop.
Looks like being a eunuch is a prerequsite for employement at Newsweek these days.
"whereas negative
April 17, 2009 - 11:57 ET by Texasteacher"whereas negative reinforcment suppresses more of the same behavior."
And what better way to suppress that behavior than nuking the whole damn place!
obama's notion of bi-partisanship is telling conservatives to shut up and do what he wants.
Carpet Bombing
April 17, 2009 - 12:22 ET by rexdraconimIf we used conventional stuff, we would only have a big mess to cleanup, then think about it.....
A beach resort the size of the eastern seaboard with PLENTY of parking.....
And no more pesky pirates to worry about. Making money and eliminating a bunch of criminal/terrorists.....
Two for one! Think of the concession rights alone.....
<<<money grubbing....>>>
<<<money grubbing....>>>
<<<money grubbing....>>>
I LOVE money grubbing. And I LOVE it when Americans zap the bad guys....
Or nuke 'em.....that's cool, too.
;)
"You can have Peace or you can have Freedom; just don't count on having both at the same time." - R.A.H
"I'll take the harsh reality of liberty over the illusion of security...everytime!" -me<
The Somali Pirates don't
April 18, 2009 - 12:31 ET by NL207The Somali Pirates don't have any carpets, so you can't carpet bomb them. ;)
We must know where their bases are. These people and their pirate boats don't just materialize out of thin air. They go somewhere to collect and spend their loot, get fuel, provisions, weapons and ammo and sow their wild oats. Go to those places and flatten them, killing everyone found there. This wave of piracy will end quickly if that happens.
Want more Piracy? Give them more ransom money and negotiate with them, the Hillary / Obama strategy.
NL207
April 18, 2009 - 12:40 ET by rexdraconimZING!!!!
We could solve a lot of national defense issues, decisively...if we chose to.
I doubt that our pusillanimous Leftist government will do any of the things you, correctly, understand to be the right things to do.
You pay the bully, you get to pay the bully every day. You kick him squah in the nutz and you might get punched back, if he can uncross his eyes and stop puking. Kick him until he is sterile and cannot hit you anymore and you don't have to pay him. Neither does anyone else. It is a good thing, standing up to bullies, criminals and terrorists; it reduces the likelihood that they will try their crap on you or yours. Zapping the bad guys and those that grant them sanctuary solves the problem; group therapy doesn't.
I still think that Somalia has a great potential as a beach resort with LOTS of parking.
"You can have Peace or you can have Freedom; just don't count on having both at the same time." - R.A.H
"I'll take the harsh reality of liberty over the illusion of security...everytime!" -me<
Lunch Money
April 17, 2009 - 11:58 ET by cruiserIt sounds like the people at Newsweek didn't mind giving their lunch money to the school bully. Maybe they were on free lunch, thus lunch money had no value. For many people in the modern welfare state, the value of money and principals is unknown. If I lose it, use it, or waste it, it's OK, just give me more. But don't ask me to fight for it , or earn it.
Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend. Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.----- Groucho Marx
I would love to see more of
April 17, 2009 - 12:06 ET by Scuba DudeI would love to see more of the US Nave assets combating these pirates. You do not go and appease these people, it will only make the bolder.
And as far as there land bases are concerned, how about this as a suggestion?
"The wrOng ONE was elected"
That was hurtful
April 17, 2009 - 12:14 ET by Tom PaineIf they keep this up, they're going to hurt the SEALs self-esteem...
"Wilson says one captain
April 17, 2009 - 12:19 ET by seaniep"Wilson says one captain was taken ashore and subjected by pirates to "mock executions." But the captain was not injured, and Wilson says the pirates apparently only wanted to frighten him as part of a "negotiating tactic." "
sounds like waterboarding - we should try all the pirates as the criminals that they are!!!!!
I hate the New York Times more than it hates the US Military
I'd like to pose a question,
April 17, 2009 - 12:27 ET by StewMcKinI'd like to pose a question, if anyone cares to respond. What exactly should have been the response to the pirate/hostage situation? I'm not looking for rhetoric based on the media's comments, just want to know what you all think.
Use the Bush Doctrine
April 17, 2009 - 12:34 ET by ArchConservativeYou kill them. If you see a ship trailing you, fire a shot across their bow, if they continue to stalk you, blow them out of the water. If you spot one of their speedboats, shoot them down. They are terrorists. They are murderers. They are Al-queda. Same war, different front.
I think it was perfect,
April 17, 2009 - 12:38 ET by seaniepI think it was perfect, would have liked to see it happen earlier, but the end result, three surgical precision shots, three dead pirates, one free captain . . . the rest of the world getting a good look at the "movie style" sort of stuff our Navy is capable of . . . read em and weep I say
and while not a fan, Obama did not push for negotiating etc
I liked it
I hate the New York Times more than it hates the US Military
I say it was handled correctly
April 17, 2009 - 12:41 ET by GalvanicThe company and the US government offered the pirates a chance to negotiate in good faith, which the pirates declined to do. When the onscene commander determined that under his Rules of Engagement, he had to act, he did.
Let's not forget that the pirates describe themselves as Somali marines and coast guard enforcing their EEZ, where they claim that they are striking because transiting ships are allegedly dumping toxic waste in the ocean which washes up on Somali shores.
There are at least two issues here:
1. If their claims are true, the proper internationally accepted procedure is to detain and charge the offending vessels -- not seizing any ship they want and holding it and the crew for ransom.
2. If they are marines and CG as they claim, then their actions constitute acts of war, thus making a military response legal.
I'd issue a standing warning that the US will respond militarily to pirates assets ashore the next time US vessels are involved.
Thank you. That was well
April 17, 2009 - 12:47 ET by StewMcKinThank you. That was well put. Same with the 2 responses above, although I disagree with the statement that they are al qaeda. Not even close. But my compliments go out to the Navy shooters as well as the government for the response.
I don't consider them
April 17, 2009 - 13:04 ET by Indiana JoeI don't consider them Al-Qaeda, either. They are terrorists, and pirates by definition, but not all terrorists are Al-Qaeda. That doesn't make them any less dangerous, however.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."-John Adams
No no no, I totally agree
April 17, 2009 - 13:13 ET by StewMcKinNo no no, I totally agree with you there. They're terrorists, and extremely dangerous in the open seas against civilian ships. It's unfortunate the Somalia's economic woes have led to this, and even more unfortunate that the Somali pirates are so uneducated as to not be aware what's coming for them. It's suicide by Navy.
"Suicide by Navy"
April 17, 2009 - 13:23 ET by Indiana JoeI like that. Maybe "Suicide by US Navy." Credit where it's due, and all that. ;^) Although your version is leaner and cleaner.
As for feeling sorry for them? No, not me. There's right and there's wrong. This isn't like shop-lifting a loaf of bread to feed your family. They are merely taking advantage of a situation to better their own position, at the cost of others'. The fact that they've basically gotten away with it for this long is no reason they should expect that success to continue.
I know all the arguments about how tough it is in Somalia, and I feel for those people. Probably even contribute to them, through the United Way or my taxes. But plenty of them don't become pirates.
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."-John Adams
Oh I don't feel bad for
April 17, 2009 - 13:30 ET by StewMcKinOh I don't feel bad for them. I'm just saying it's an unfortunate situation. The guy who robbed the convenient store with his daughter a few weeks ago because he was out of work - it was an unfortunate situation that led him to the crime, but he's still guilty and should suffer the consequences.
I totally agree with that
April 17, 2009 - 13:55 ET by lotrI totally agree with that sentiment. In fact I would go so far as to say it's a sad situation. But yes, the American response was about as just and humane as is possible.
As an aside, the other comment I would make here is that all American civilian vessels like these should be armed, at least with a couple semiautomatic handguns, and that commanding officers should be trained in their usage.
Agreed. This is
April 17, 2009 - 14:08 ET by StewMcKinAgreed. This is interesting though:
http://randompokes.org/pokes/2009/04/why-dont-merchant-ships-carry-weapons.html
Interesting point of view
April 17, 2009 - 14:54 ET by lotrInteresting point of view with some legitimate arguments, although I disagree with a number of them. For one, I would not advocate "canons or machine guns," and I'm not even sure about high-powered rifles (e.g., AK-47 or equivalent). I'm just talking about sidearms, ones that would be kept away, only to be used in a desperate situation by those trained to use them. I'm not talking about brazenly engaging in some sort of classical sea battle at the first sight of a pirate vessel. Part of the reason that I feel this way is out of personal experience -- when you are out at sea, the ship you are on literally is a world unto itself, and the notion of being helpless unarmed sheep left to the wolves is a bit unnerving to me.
I'm totally with you here.
April 17, 2009 - 14:57 ET by StewMcKinI'm totally with you here. I was just looking online for an explanation as to why civilian ships don't carry weapons. This was the most complete list of "possible" reasons. On my ship, I prefer to be armed.
definately not a loaf of bread
April 17, 2009 - 13:32 ET by katainkentThe pirates have become increasingly more high-tech. Building their piracy business with payments from ransoms. They have also become increasingly clever and demanding more money. They also have an endless supply of mercenaries for hire because they are not solving their countries problems with the wealth they gain. The pirate "kings" have become millionaires. Their pity party line of "our poor country(ies)" is b.s.
I say answer force with force. After all its "the Chicago way" isn't it?
I love to help the helpless but I'm not gonna help the clueless ~Dennis Miller
Sean Connery Man Crush
April 17, 2009 - 15:36 ET by rexdraconimSay what you will....there it is.
And what a great clip! And it IS the way to deal with thugs.
"You can have Peace or you can have Freedom; just don't count on having both at the same time." - R.A.H
"I'll take the harsh reality of liberty over the illusion of security...everytime!" -me<
Thinking the same thing--this is not Les Miz.
April 17, 2009 - 22:10 ET by Mike BrattonAnd rationalizing crime and terrorism because of poverty is to suggest that human beings lack the capacity for dignity, and are unable to make right choices in hard circumstances.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
I don't think anyone is
April 17, 2009 - 22:48 ET by Another Dead KennedyI don't think anyone is rationalizing crime and terrorism here. Just explaining that life of poverty drove the pirates to crime. It's no secret that poverty stricken areas all over our country have higher crime rates than wealthier areas. It's not an excuse. Just tracing the lines and saying "this is why it happened."
Of course you are.
April 18, 2009 - 12:34 ET by Mike Bratton"Oh, those poor folks. They commit crime and engage in barbaric acts of terrorism because they just don't have enough. How dare we parade cargo ships full of goods by the shores of people whose governments practically starve them!"
Yes, actually, your mindset is an attempt to excuse and rationalize away acts of terrorism because of poverty. "It's no secret" that crime and violence cut across demographic lines; criminal activities of any stripe are acts that originate in the heart, not in the wallet.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
~"this is why it happened."
April 18, 2009 - 12:42 ET by choselife3xUtter fallacy.
That high-pitched scream you hear is the troll under my heel.
What did Thomas Jefferson
April 17, 2009 - 12:58 ET by NL207What did Thomas Jefferson do about the Barbary Pirates? Pay ransom? Make apologies on behalf of the United States for being wealthier than the pirates? Propose a cooperative agreement with the Dey of Tripoli to alleviate the poverty that was causing the Piracy? When the Pirates demanded tribute, what did Jefferson say?
How has the spineless Obama Administration approached the present piracy problem? As the above, if you've at all been listening to Hillary Clinton, Secretary of State.
Jefferson sent a powerful naval squadron to the Mediterranean to wage war on the Dey of Tripoli and kill the pirates. Jefferson rejected demands for tribute, for which the Dey of Tripoli declared war on the United States.
Ugh
April 17, 2009 - 13:02 ET by StewMcKinAre you suggesting another preemptive war?
Would it be "pre-emptive?"
April 17, 2009 - 13:14 ET by Indiana JoeAn American flagged ship was attacked and boarded. I'm no maritime lawyer, but that could be considered an attack on American soil. Else, why would the US Navy get involved? Was our response to Pearl Harbor "pre-emptive?" Of course there's a difference of scale, but is there one of principle?
I don''t think the previous poster was suggesting declaring war on Somalia, or even on the pirates. I believe he was merely pointing out the precedent in history. It is, after all, why the line "to the shores of Tripoli," is in the Marine Hymn.
<edit: Also, if you notice, the previous poster mentions that the Dey of Tripoli declared war on the US for failure to pay tribute. Much the same as threatening more violence for resisting, I'd say. Again, in principle.>
"Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."-John Adams
Gotcha. I don't know much
April 17, 2009 - 13:25 ET by StewMcKinGotcha. I don't know much about the career pirates of history, but these guys come across as being a bit different. They're fishermen turned bad-guys from an economically desolate country. A warship would certainly keep them at bay, so long as the warship is around. I feel this is an incomparable situation. At the very least it's a global concern. After all, these pirate ships are hardly the Flying Dutchman (no offense, Mr Dutchman).
but these guys come across
April 17, 2009 - 14:35 ET by Dan The Man 2but these guys come across as being a bit different.
No, they are despots, criminals who deserve what pirates have gotten historically; a quick and just death. This "A warship would certainly keep them at bay, so long as the warship is around. " is the same argument used by liberals and Trolls worldwide. Containment is not the answer, the answer is to make the consequences not profitable for teh pirates. Stew, methinks you need some more anti Troll scent.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
So anyone who disagrees with
April 17, 2009 - 14:49 ET by StewMcKinSo anyone who disagrees with you is a Troll? Wouldn't it just be great if everyone around the world thought the same about everything?
Pirates of the 18th century are not the same as the Somali pirates of today. 18th century pirates [provided the rulers of these nations with wealth and naval power.]
This is not the case today, Dan. They are working completely on their own. By the way, did you notice all the other responses who managed to post respectfully without name calling? Nice to meet you, sir.
So anyone who disagrees
April 17, 2009 - 15:18 ET by Dan The Man 2So anyone who disagrees with you is a Troll?
No, I am in a foul mood today so I may be wrong. I read some other posts and have read some historical ones in your track feature.
What set me off was your attitude of poor little misunderstood civilians forced to be criminals and steal and pillage passing naval vessels hundreds of miles out to sea. To me that screams Troll or appeaser at the least. Perhaps I am wrong. But we do have our pet Trolls here who are syrupy polite but still obtuse. Only time will tell.
And Pirates in the 18th century are pirates as the pirates are today. The ones with papers were called privateers and raped and pillaged for some king, but a pirate is still a pirate whatever the reason. These Somalians deserve nothing less than death just as Al Quada or Hezbollah or Taliban or any other muderous thugs.
Well if you arnt a Troll I apologize but if it smells like a Troll and acts like a Troll then most likely it is one. So I will reset, just for you.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
We all have bad days.
April 17, 2009 - 15:29 ET by StewMcKinWe all have bad days. Apology accepted. However, I just want to reinforce my position on this. I do not feel bad for the pirates in any way whatsoever. All I did was post an explanation as to why piracy of the Somalian coast is happening right now. An explanation, not an excuse.
This is what I posted above:
Oh I don't feel bad for them. I'm just saying it's an unfortunate situation. The guy who robbed the convenient store with his daughter a few weeks ago because he was out of work - it was an unfortunate situation that led him to the crime, but he's still guilty and should suffer the consequences.
Anyway, hope your day gets better. Have a great weekend.
See here "it was an
April 17, 2009 - 16:48 ET by Dan The Man 2See here "it was an unfortunate situation that led him to the crime, but he's still guilty and should suffer the consequences." you miss the idea. The man was a criminal in the first place, there are other options. My point is these people have a predisposition to committing crimes, hence the idea of being a criminal.
We all have circumstances and its how we deal with them taht determines ones character. Similar to my inferring you are a Troll, my character was tested and I failed. I failed on a small scale but on the scale of being thuggery I will pass no matter what. Of course I remember a time of being on anti depressants and coming off of them and being so angry. But I still recognized right from wrong.
And I most Somalis recognize right from wrong as most citizens recognize it. I beklieve once one starts making excuses for bad behaviour no matter how slight one is on the wide path instead of the narrow one.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Jefferson had it right.
April 17, 2009 - 14:07 ET by NL207Jefferson had it right. The piracies will not stop until the pain of continuation becomes too great for the pirates to bear.
You choose to call this a pre-emptive war. We are too late to preempt the enemy. They have already commenced hostilities. The fact that they are unlawful combatants, pirates, under the Geneva Conventions is only a fine point. There can be no preemption here.
This situation is no different than the war you opposed and continue to oppose in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere. The enemy had already committed acts of war. The only questions were if, when and where we respond.
What would I do? Inform the Somali ambassador his government has [X] weeks to bring the pirates to justice or the United States will declare war on Somalia and wipe out the Pirates with or without his government's consent where X is the amount of time it will take to mobilze a punitive expeditionary force with the power to overcome both the Pirates and, if necessary, the Somalis. I think it highly likely the Somali government will give its consent, since they have no more use for these pirates than anyone else but lack the force to restrain them without ouitside assistance.
As for the Pirates themselves, our code is far too lenient these days. The old penalty for Piracy under US Code was hanging. Today, the most severe penalty is life without parole. Rather than clutter our prisons with these outlaws, simply kill them upon the field of battle.
Wow! You know me so well.
April 17, 2009 - 14:17 ET by StewMcKinWow! You know me so well. Do you always assume to be a know-it-all in every situation, or just on this site when someone asks you a question. Don't get so defensive. We're not talking about the Iraq war, and you have NO IDEA how I feel about it.
Jefferson's approach to piracy over 200 years ago is completely different than what's going on in Somalia. If that's how you argue, why not compare the Iraq war to the Spanish-American war. Why, they're both wars, so they must be the same!
As for the Pirates themselves, our code is far too lenient these days.
You mean suicide by Navy? Yeah, getting killed by a Navy sniper is far too lenient.
"you have NO IDEA how I
April 17, 2009 - 15:28 ET by NL207"you have NO IDEA how I feel about it."
Apparently you are unaware of how much you convey in your posts here. Leftism oozes out of your every pore.
You are right. Jefferson's approach to Piracy 200 years ago IS completely different than what is going on in Somalia today. He succeeded. Obama will fail. He lacks the resolve to end this piracy. We can only hope India or some other nation, possibly even Somalia itself, has the intestinal fortitude to subdue these brigands.
Pirates are Pirates. Wars are wars. Only a fool argues otherwise.
The Navy killed three armed pirates who refused to surrender when confronted. There are 3,000 more where they came from. Thus far, we have leniently done nothing to any of these, as has been evidenced by the ouburst of ship siezures after Capt. Phillips was rescued. It will be necessary to kill some great number of these persons to deter further acts of Piracy. Weakness in the face of this latest challenge from the Pirates will only beget more piracy.
Leftism oozes out of your
April 17, 2009 - 15:40 ET by StewMcKinLeftism oozes out of your every pore.
So? Is it a crime to think differently? Am I not allowed to converse with people who I disagree with? Or would you prefer that I only hang out in the liberal clubs so I learn nothing about how other people think. See, that might be the difference between you and me - I'd rather educate myself with as much information as possible. Sometimes I even change my mind, when an open dialogue proves me to be wrong.
Your prediction about Obama failing is based on what? He's succeeded 100% so far in dealing with the first pirate crisis, and you have nothing to base your statements on.
"Is it a crime to think
April 17, 2009 - 16:06 ET by NL207"Is it a crime to think differently?"
Think is the operative word. Try emoting a little less and thinking a little more. One thing you might think about is what motivates these pirates. They have something in common with highwaymen.
"Your prediction about Obama failing is based on what? "
4 more ships of 4 different flags have been siezed in the days immediately succeeding the rescue of Capt. Phillips. Killing those three pirates had zero impact on the overall problem.
Historically, every serious pirate problem the world has ever experienced has only been resolved by assault on the pirates' bases of operations. Obama lacks the resolve to do this. There is some history here. Jefferson was not the only President to face Pirates. So did Madison, Monroe, John Adams, Washington, John Quincy Adams, Andrew Jackson, and Teddy Roosevelt. Those who suppressed the pirates all attacked the pirates' base of operations. In this instance, that is Somalia.
Okay, I give up with you.
April 17, 2009 - 16:15 ET by StewMcKinOkay, I give up with you. We're getting nowhere and all you do is continue to insult me. Because I don't think like you, doesn't mean I don't think.
But you've certainly made your point about America's need to become the world's police. 4 ships, 4 flags - who else is out there stopping the pirates? Why should it be America? Here's how we solve it - stop sending ships to that region until the problem is no longer.
I'm not going to debate you on the future and your feelings towards the president. You've already established that no matter what he does, it will be wrong in your mind. Fine. Have a nice weekend.
Insult you? Trust me.
April 18, 2009 - 00:30 ET by NL207Insult you? Trust me. You will KNOW if I insult you. Apparently when someone mops the floor with your lack of reasoning, you feel offended. Too bad.
"who else is out there stopping the pirates"
The French. The Indians.
But neither of them have the muscle to come ashore against the Pirate base of operations.
"Here's how we solve it - stop sending ships to that region until the problem is no longer"
Your remedy: Surrender free use of international waters for commerce to a gang of outlaws. The waters these pirates are operating in are at one of the outlets to the Suez. No one is going to abandon that to their likes. Even if you could get all shipping out of there, the Pirates will simply move to where the shipping is. The straits of Hormuz are nearby. Let these pirates hold the flow of oil from the Persian Gulf hostage for a while. See if that improves the world economy.
Bluntly put, it is in our national interests to stamp out this piracy. There are plenty of other folks who see this as their interests as well. About the only people who oppose this in principle are the Pirates themselves.
Jeffersonian
April 17, 2009 - 14:40 ET by slickwillie2001The Bamster is being Jeffersonian here, but it's George he is acting like, not Thomas.
But seriously, if a Republican was President today this would be going much further. There would be calls for the President's indictment for something to do with international law, CBS would be interviewing the dead pirates' mothers, (la la la, he was such a good boy, never any trouble...) and Congress would be up in arms because they didn't authorize the use of military force.
This is minor and I'm sure Rahm will bring them back into line shortly.
And you think Jefferson did
April 17, 2009 - 15:42 ET by NL207And you think Jefferson did not face these questions?
"criticism from his political opponents, and even opposition within his own cabinet did not deter Jefferson from his chosen course"
"With not atypical subtlety, Jefferson took a shortcut through this thicket in 1801 and sent the navy to North Africa on patrol, as it were, with instructions to enforce existing treaties and punish infractions of them. Our third president did not inform Congress of his authorization of this mission until the fleet was too far away to recall."
Our third president did not
April 17, 2009 - 16:53 ET by Dan The Man 2Our third president did not inform Congress of his authorization of this mission until the fleet was too far away to recall."
And Congress did not recognize or fund it for years.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Exactly. And who was
April 18, 2009 - 00:31 ET by NL207Exactly. And who was right?
If I had been POTUS I would
April 17, 2009 - 13:33 ET by Tom PaineIf I had been POTUS I would have told the Admiral to get the SEALS into position and rescue the hostage by any means necessary. I wouldn’t have my staff running around creating the impression that I led the rescue team, but that’s just me.
If I had been POTUS I would
April 17, 2009 - 13:45 ET by StewMcKinIf I had been POTUS I would have told the Admiral to get the SEALS into position and rescue the hostage by any means necessary.
Didn't he in fact do this?
I wouldn’t have my staff running around creating the impression that I led the rescue team, but that’s just me.
I'm not sure what you're referring to here.
Didn't he in fact do
April 17, 2009 - 14:37 ET by Dan The Man 2Didn't he in fact do this?
No.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Care to elaborate or do you
April 17, 2009 - 14:53 ET by Another Dead KennedyCare to elaborate or do you just give one word answers?
KDW ~ Let's be honest... I know that will be hard for you since
April 18, 2009 - 15:17 ET by pahuberyou have proven to me that you want to do all the talking.
You deserve one word answers because when others elaborate (like I have with you in the past) you just answer BAH! and say that we are being non-responsive or you just totally walk away when it's convenient. So you are not fooling anyone.
You simply have proven yourself to be a waste of time.
sincerely,
pahuber
Pirates are cool; Bush is the torturer?
April 17, 2009 - 12:33 ET by ArchConservativeBy Newsweek's definition then, the Somali Islamoterrorist pirates are guilty of torture and war crimes by staging the mock execution. Just as they try and tell us that President Bush, VP Cheney, and various members of the military are guilty of doing the same to Al-queda terrorist scumbags, they are now saying that they are peaceful and we should just give them a million here and a million there?
Disgusting.
Disgraceful.
But, totally in step with their anti-American, pro-terrorist agenda.
Newsweek, Time, NYT. I cannot wait until we can dance when they dissolve into nothingness.
You support the troops by supporting the mission! If you don't support the mission, have the guts to say you don't support the troops.
Obama: Not my President. Ever.
Quite the leap
April 17, 2009 - 12:46 ET by Flying_DutchmanThe pirates themselves have said they are going to attempt to murder American sailors for revenge. I don’t see a need for an alternate point of view on this fact. I suppose your premise is that Newsweek is somehow writing that the pirates are nice bad guys, yet I don’t see how you reached that rather warped conclusion. By stating the fact that the pirates are now out for blood when they weren’t before is not at all a statement that the U.S. action in killing the pirates was wrong. It is merely a statement that the situation has been escalated to a higher, more dangerous level, which is of course is quite true. Show me where Hosenball and Isikoff have actually written that the U.S. Naval action was wrong and a bad thing and that they are pining for the good old days when pirates were fabled good bad guys. I am betting that they didn’t write anything like this. Prove me wrong.
Can I add that on a much
April 17, 2009 - 12:59 ET by StewMcKinCan I add that on a much different level, this action is standard at home. When a cop pulls a car over and the driver gets out and points a gun at the officer, the officer is trained to shoot to kill.
Why should an American life in foreign waters be treated any different. A gun was pointed at the captain's back. His life was in danger, and our armed forces rescued him.
They ought to concentrate
April 17, 2009 - 12:47 ET by ConservativeRexThey ought to concentrate on the pirates as much as they are eyeballing so called "right-wing extremist" in this country.
Left up to me, Mogadishu would have leveled as an abject lesson to not mess with U.S. flagged ships.
I know, I know, you lefty's in here would talk about proportion. But I just don't give a damn anymore. The U.S. doesn't want to be pushed around anymore? Then don't put up with it. Not one time.
too busy apologizing elsewhere
April 17, 2009 - 12:49 ET by katainkentThank you for calling the White House. The President is too busy apologizing in South America today but if you leave your name, number and grievance requiring an apology he will get back to you as soon as possible.
I love to help the helpless but I'm not gonna help the clueless ~Dennis Miller
I am sick of this BS, it is
April 17, 2009 - 13:19 ET by kangarooI am sick of this BS, it is going to take a big hit on the US to wake these lib twits from their utopion world, and we will have to deal with it cause they will under the desk with nappies and kleenx because they will be shitting themselves and balling at the same time
I have come to the conclusion that demonuts are more than 2 sanwiches short of a picknick
The liberal mind is generally warped in logic, sick emotionally
April 17, 2009 - 13:32 ET by pahuberand just generally self loathing (when not attacking others).
For examples of this fact also see:
Alec Baldwin, Genine Garroffalo, David Letterman, Barbara Streisand, George Soros, etc. ad infinitum
Well, perhaps Newsweek is correct.. all hell broke loose
April 17, 2009 - 15:11 ET by Gary HallWell, perhaps Newsweek is correct.. all hell broke loose after Clinton's "Black Hawk Down" incident. There was some rather extreme killing that went on after the incident -- I mean there was nothing like waterboarding 3 people, or putting a terrorist in a box with a caterpillar. None of those sort of horrors - only mass killings.
President Bill Clinton swelled with rage, and as George Stephanopoulos wrote:
The AC-130 gunships were put in the air... some sources say that hundreds to a thousand civilans were killed. Only God knows how many people, including women and children had their legs and arms blown off.. (but remember - no bugs in a box - noooo.. we didn't do things like that back then)
Then, satisfied that his rage had been releasd, Clinton pulled out.
Then... after that .. well.. we had the twin embassy bombings in Africa, the Cole, Afghanistan fell to the terroist radicals, and then... 9/11.. and now pirates on the high seas.
Perhaps Spain should consider charging Clinton with causing all of this.
(;~/ gary
Put them at the lead
April 17, 2009 - 15:40 ET by Ozark_SunshineLet's put the Newsweek staff and the Dems at the lead to go face to face to negotiate with these killers. Maybe they can get some true insight into terrorism, torture and the minds of these killers. Let's embed their reporters with ship crews and leave them defenseless. I look forward to this piece of manure magazine biting the dust and their "reporters" being on social welfare since they helped Obama create it. I'll even give them an ink pen to create a "will write leftists article for food" sign.
No thanks to Obama
April 17, 2009 - 16:03 ET by ThisnThatI just watched Capt Phillips' brief statements after he landed in Vermont. He spent 5 minutes thanking everyone...
Except President Obama -- LOL (at least I didn't hear Obama's name)
He thanked his family; neighbors; crew; and especially the military.
But not Obama. I love it.
___________________________________
The challenge is to follow a consistent plan despite inconsistent prices - Sarah Palin, State of the State of Alaska speech
Liberals and Corporations Find Common Cause
April 17, 2009 - 16:12 ET by freecitizenIt's ironic. The reason merchant sailors don't have guns and companies prefer to just pay ransoms is purely economic. It is cheaper to pay them off and deal with delays than it would be to deal with liability issues and lawsuits. Explain that to a liberal and his head will explode.
Of course the above argument makes no room for the well being of the sailors themselves. Who cares if you have to sit around in a mud hut waiting for your corporate liberators. If being a hostage to these pirates/thugs/jihadists is so harmless then why were we all so on edge while Obeyme "negotiated" their release.
Liberal: remove all that's Right, and this is what's Left.
Deadly Force
April 17, 2009 - 21:11 ET by DerRickThe Boss is the one who shows they mean business and can back it up. The Boss is the one who survives as well.
If the pirates are upset and come after us, hit them hard and hit them fast. If they are still showing some fight take it to them and end it as fast as possible with a clear win for you. That works in self-defense, it'll work against the pirates as well.
The Rate of Recidivism
April 17, 2009 - 21:37 ET by FormerMarineOfficeramong dead pirates is zero.
The Somali populace is already radicalized. What do these idiots think Blackhawk Down was about?
pirates
April 19, 2009 - 06:56 ET by bobwhiteThere's nothing wrong with shooting, as long as the right people get shot....Dirty Harry.