Hat-tipping gay blogger Andrew Sullivan, Time's Amy Sullivan (no relation) expressed impatience at the Obama administration for not moving yet on ending the ban on openly gay personnel serving in the U.S. Armed Forces.
Sullivan is chagrined that a Kansas National Guardsman was reportedly discharged after Army brass discovered her MySpace page in which she declared she is a lesbian.
Here's the February 11 Swampland blog post in full, entitled, "They Didn't Ask, She Didn't Tell, and Yet...":
Does having a MySpace page on which you don't hide the fact that you're a lesbian constitute "telling" the military about your sexual orientation? What about kissing your girlfriend in the checkout line in Wal-Mart? It does if you serve in the Kansas Army National Guard, which recently discharged an Iraq war vet for being a lesbian.
Since "don't ask, don't tell" went into effect in 1993, nearly 12,500 service members have been discharged for being gay, lesbian or bisexual. Three-quarters of Americans think gay members of the military should be able to serve openly. Tell us again why ending the policy has to wait?
(h/t: Andrew (no relation) Sullivan)
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
She Told
February 11, 2009 - 13:40 ET by kdizzydazeShe told the entire world via her myspace page.
Oh, and this does illustrate the possibility that this is an illness.and not in the genes (so to speak). Think about it, have any of you straight people out there ever had to tell people that you are hetero???
Just a thought and certainly not grounded in science, but jeez!!
Until 1973 it was
February 11, 2009 - 13:42 ET by Sergeant ROCKBut, like with a lot of other liberal causes, that was changed through activism.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
I hope
February 11, 2009 - 14:45 ET by guttermouthI hope they let so many gays into the military that they turn everyone gay! Wouldn't that be a hoot??? Imagine the uniforms. It'd be like the West Hollywood Halloween Parade! It's the sergeant's biggest nightmare!
How can that happen
February 11, 2009 - 15:30 ET by CobraMan"I hope they let so many gays into the military that they turn everyone gay!"
How could "everyone" turn gay? I thought that being gay was a not a choice, but was instead, a genetic thing? At least, that what the gays have been telling us, is it not? Are you now hoping that being gay is due to nothing more than peer pressure? I don't see how that could be. Since most of the military troops are hetro, shouldn't peer pressure force all of the troops to become hetro?
Obama: My job is above my pay grade
StimulusMan
February 11, 2009 - 15:37 ET by Sergeant ROCKbuttermouth is hoping to rub his 'gay genes' on 'em!
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
Beware of Natural Selection
February 11, 2009 - 15:46 ET by CobraManAnyone who tries to rub their gay genes on me is going to find my naturally selected heterosexual foot kicking their ass!
Obama: My job is above my pay grade
Mmmm...
February 11, 2009 - 15:48 ET by Sergeant ROCK... foot sex.. - buttermouth
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
If it's not genetic, how can
February 11, 2009 - 16:00 ET by guttermouthIf it's not genetic, how can there be gay genes?
That makes it a choice
February 11, 2009 - 16:31 ET by CobraMan"If it's not genetic, how can there be gay genes?"
Gay sex is a choice, a matter of personal behavior, correct? Even if you believe that gays are gay because of their genes , you still understand that the sex act itself is a matter of personal choice.
You may not be aware of this, but there are a LOT of restrictions put on personal behavior in the military, including sex. Those restriction are put in for a reason, the chief being that you personal behavior affects more than just yourself, it affects everyone around you.
Obama: My job is above my pay grade
Damn it to Hell!
February 11, 2009 - 16:34 ET by Sergeant ROCKHow'd I miss that one? Fact of the matter is, tried as they might, no one could find the mythical 'gay gene'. It's pure fantasy.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
So what you're saying is
February 11, 2009 - 17:37 ET by guttermouthSo what you're saying is that gays are just barbarians who can't control their sexual urges? That even though the take the military oath to follow and obey all orders, they just can't help themselves but to act outrageously in order to satisfy that raging homosexual cravings?
Tell me, what is it that makes straight men and women obey military oaths and not gays?
No, you made that up
February 11, 2009 - 18:03 ET by CobraMan"So what you're saying is that gays are just barbarians who can't control their sexual urges?"
No, you made that up. You do that a lot. Why is this?
"Tell me, what is it that makes straight men and womenobey military oaths and not gays? "
Here's why: Because the "openly" gay members of the military don't' WANT to abide by their oaths, obey the regulations. They could abide by their oaths and still be gay if they didn't feel it necessary to ANNOUNCE their homosexuality. It's THEIR choice to claim that they're gay. That makes it THEIR fault, does it not? I guess their guilt is just to much for you to accept.
Obama: My job is above my pay grade
I made nothing up. It was
February 11, 2009 - 18:12 ET by guttermouthI made nothing up. It was a question. Notice the question mark?
" Here's why: Because the "openly" gay members of the military don't' WANT to abide by their oaths, obey the regulations. "
Any proof to this? Please, do tell.
Any proof to the contrary?
February 11, 2009 - 18:17 ET by Sergeant ROCKMaybe you can also explain what 'serve openly' actually means? SInce you're such a rabid proponent of it.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
A foolish question
February 11, 2009 - 18:18 ET by CobraManThen it was a foolish question as it was not relevant to my comment. So, guess what, YOU MADE IT UP!
Obama: My job is above my pay grade
So?
February 11, 2009 - 19:04 ET by guttermouth"Here's why: Because the "openly" gay members of the military don't' WANT to abide by their oaths, obey the regulations"
Proof? You're avoiding this.
Can anyone back this up?
Are you blind?
February 11, 2009 - 19:13 ET by CobraManAre you blind? Or is the ability for logical deduction beyond you capabilities?
This entire thread itself offers you the proof you ask for:
That's what Ken posted in the body of his article! Did you miss that?
Obama: My job is above my pay grade
Just admit you have no proof
February 11, 2009 - 19:20 ET by guttermouthJust admit you have no proof of that statement. Because the girl posted something about her sexuality doesn't mean:
"openly" gay members of the military don't' WANT to abide by their oaths, obey the regulations"
If your only argument in her case is that she disobeyed the don't ask/don't tell rule, then it's one case. You made a broad statement that you can't back up. So, as I said before, I beg even one person to come up with solid proof that gays in the military don't want to follow their oath. Anyone? Anyone? Crickets?
You don't want to see it
February 11, 2009 - 19:42 ET by CobraManGuttermouth, people don't admit they are gay unless they WANT to. No one is FORCING them to admit their sexual preference, that question isn't even asked until the person REVEALS their sexual preference to others. They know that revealing themselves in this was will violate the regulations for homosexuality in the military. In FREELY admitting they are gay, they are WILLINGLY admitting to a violation of regulations, and willingly violating a regulation is a breach of their oath. Why is this so hard for you to understand?
I mean, really, they freely admit they are gay, how much more "proof" do you need?
Obama: My job is above my pay grade
Got it
February 11, 2009 - 19:50 ET by guttermouthSo your only problem is people being openly gay in the military. What happens when someone is openly gay in the military? Do you think being openly gay means you can't follow every other regulation? This is so stupid. Don't answer. I'm not coming back to this page.
What happens? They violate their oath!
February 11, 2009 - 19:58 ET by CobraMan"What happens when someone is openly gay in the military?"
What happens is that they are admitting a violation of regulations! Its same as admitting that you break a civilian law! By willingly violation the regulations, they show their DISDAIN for regulations. A military's very survival depend that the regulations be followed TO THE LETTER.
You need to understand that, in the military, all regulations are COMMANDS! We can NOT afford to staff the military with people who refuse to follow a command.
Don't try to hid from that fact, guttermouth.
Obama: My job is above my pay grade
OH NO! GUTTERMOUTH'S NOT
February 11, 2009 - 23:49 ET by bretzysdudeOH NO! GUTTERMOUTH'S NOT COMING BACK!!!! WHATEVER WILL WE DO??????
OH NO! GUTTERMOUTH'S NOT
February 11, 2009 - 23:49 ET by bretzysdudeOH NO! GUTTERMOUTH'S NOT COMING BACK!!!! WHATEVER WILL WE DO??????
Is that a promise?
February 12, 2009 - 00:05 ET by R D Helm-Dave
Our clueless political leaders are about to drive us all over a cliff. The time to HITM is now-before we go over.
Promises! Promises!
February 12, 2009 - 08:25 ET by Sergeant ROCKPoor buttermouth. Why can't you just agree with him because he 'feels' this is the way it ought to be? Isn't that reason enough?
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
No crickets,
February 11, 2009 - 20:14 ET by UpNorthwhich part of "Don't ask, Don't tell" is too hard for you to comprehend? If they tell, they aren't following their oath. So, when she puts it on the internet that she's a lesbian, and she's still serving in the military, she's not following her oath, or the regulations covering her conduct.
Face it, it's an easy way to get out of the military before your obligation is fulfilled. Instead of fleeing to Canada, getting kicked out and having to come back for the bad conduct discharge.
Guttermouth's Retreat
February 11, 2009 - 20:21 ET by CobraManDon't bother, guttermouth has already retreated in defeat from the field of battle.
Obama: My job is above my pay grade
Don't Ask, Don't Tell
February 11, 2009 - 18:26 ET by CobraManDon't Ask, Don't Tell. What part of that don't you understand? The "don't ask" or the "don't tell?
The military no longer inquires as to someone's sexual preference. That's what "don't ask" means.
If a gay member of the military didn't announce their sexual preference, no one would know, correct? That's what "don't tell" means
It's only when someone reveals their sexuality does the matter even arise. Since that sexual revelation is the direct cause of the person revealing it, the fault can ONLY lie with that person, correct?
Is logical deduction proof enough for you?
Obama: My job is above my pay grade
It's all about 'acceptance'
February 11, 2009 - 18:29 ET by Sergeant ROCKIt's not enough not to be discriminated against. Everyone must also 'accept' their behavior as 'normal'.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
It's all about insistance.
February 11, 2009 - 18:44 ET by CobraManNot only do people like Andrew Sullivan feel that this type of behavior should be widely accepted, they insist that it MUST be accepted. That's not acceptance, that's enforcement.
Obama: My job is above my pay grade
Acceptance
February 11, 2009 - 19:55 ET by Sergeant ROCKMaybe we should force acceptance of Christianity on everybody. Oh wait.. nevermind.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
Hay guttermouth
February 11, 2009 - 19:15 ET by CobraManHay, guttermouth. See Above!
Obama: My job is above my pay grade
Notice the question
February 11, 2009 - 23:48 ET by bretzysdudeNotice the question mark?
Notice how no one wants you around here?
So, if it's a choice
February 11, 2009 - 16:43 ET by CobraManIf being gay is a choice, which I believe it is, why can't the gays choose to abstain from sexual activity while serving? If they're abstaining, they can't be considered homosexual and they wouldn't feel the need to assert their non-existent homosexuality by "openly" declaring themselves gay. That way the entire controversy is avoided.
Obama: My job is above my pay grade
Cobra: My sentiments
February 11, 2009 - 16:50 ET by QueenMumCobra: My sentiments exactly. I'd like to know what the policies are for heterosexuals in the military regarding dating and sexual relationships.
There are a lot...
February 11, 2009 - 17:11 ET by CobraManThere are a lot of regulations conserning sexual, and interpersonal, relations in the military. There are not only service wide regulations, but unit specifife ones as well. But it's been a long time since I served and i don't remember most of them.
I will mention a few that I do remember. It's a violation of regulations to commit adultery in the military, for obvious reasons
It's also a violation to have a relationship with someone within you command structure with more than three grades of rank of separation. For example, a male Staff Sargent is forbidden to have a sexual or emotional relationship with a female private who is under his command.This is forbidden to prevent occurrences, or even charges, of favoritism as favoritism interferes with your ability to effectively command.
It is also a violation to pay a woman for sex. This is forbidden do to the increased chance of catching a STD.
There are even restrictions as to when sex can be permitted. For example, you can't have sex while on duty, for obvious reasons. I actually knew a couple of privates (not gay, btw) who learned this the hard way, with a General Courts Martial and a dishonorable discharge. That will teach them to have sex while on guard duty! They weren't even at a guard post, they were back at their unit, but that is still considered as being on duty as guard duty was a 24 hour duty whether you were actually manning a post or not.
I'm sure there are a lot more, but I don't remember them.
Obama: My job is above my pay grade
Good
February 11, 2009 - 15:55 ET by guttermouthThen if we can agree that being around gay people does not in fact make you gay, what's the problem with having gays around? I mean, if they want the right to protect this country and our freedoms, why should they be excluded?
Because buttermouth..
February 11, 2009 - 15:58 ET by Sergeant ROCK.. the U.S. military is not a social experiment. That, and the fact, it's not 'normal' behavior.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
Social experiment? What
February 11, 2009 - 16:02 ET by guttermouthSocial experiment? What the hell does that even mean?
Normal behavior? What exactly is normal behavior? Anything that you don't agree with?
Raving Militant Homosexuals
February 11, 2009 - 16:06 ET by Sergeant ROCKThere is nothing 'normal' about one man sodomizing another man. Nevermind the Biblical perspective, it serves no purpose in nature.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
So it's male gay sex you
February 11, 2009 - 16:10 ET by guttermouthSo it's male gay sex you have a problem with? Does that mean you're cool with a couple of hot young lesbians going at it, as long as they're not sodomizing each other?
Nice try, Sodomite..
February 11, 2009 - 16:18 ET by Sergeant ROCK.. but no, both.
You have been watching too much porn. What you refer to is 'lipstick' lesbians and they're like unicorns.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
Hahahaha
February 11, 2009 - 16:20 ET by guttermouthActually, YOU'RE the only person on this page referring to lipstick lesbians. So, you just hate all forms of gays. Fine. So any other misbehavior is tolerable, as long as gay soldiers don't have gay sex while serving?
Snarling Militant Homosexuals
February 11, 2009 - 16:28 ET by Sergeant ROCKNah.. I don't agree that the behavior is normal - you do. What you seek is government sanctioned 'acceptance' and 'hate crimes' to be leveled against those that would dare disagree - especially religion.
So, I think that it is you doing all of the 'hating'.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
huh?
February 11, 2009 - 16:36 ET by guttermouthDo you normally just assume things about people before even learning a single truth? What the hell do you know about what I seek? You're the one who hates gays here, not me. Can you say you don't hate ALL gays? Do you have even 1 gay friend who you've allowed into your home?
Gutter.... did you just say this?
February 11, 2009 - 16:45 ET by dark_ds"Do you normally just assume things about people before even learning a single truth?"
Gutter did YOU of all people just say that? You have accused others of not taking care of their kids without knowing anything about their lives. You are a piece of work.
Now you can go back to fighting your battle with whomever about homosexuality. You wont change anybodies mind about the issue not with the style you use.
Water Boarding is illegal but Koolaid Boarding is still an option... dark_ds said that
Yes
February 11, 2009 - 16:51 ET by guttermouthI accused a woman who has thousands of posts on this site of neglecting her 3 young children who she claimed to be taking care of all day. Anyone with a kid knows you can't simply sit on the computer all day long and still take care of them. Family values and all. Too bad they time stamped every one of her posts.
My timing is impeccable!
February 11, 2009 - 16:57 ET by choselife3xLittle Winnie Peterson is still flapping her gums about things she knows not of, I see.
Hilarious.
In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
I was responding to a post.
February 11, 2009 - 17:08 ET by guttermouthI was responding to a post. Stay out of it knockedup3x.
gutster, welcome to the PUBLIC blog NEWSBUSTERS
February 11, 2009 - 17:17 ET by upcountrywaterWhy don't you practice what you PREEECH, and stay out?
Oh, do as i say,not as i do...
FREEDOM
gut loves what the (Democrats) do.
Don't be skeered
February 11, 2009 - 17:18 ET by choselife3xI'm content to watch Cobra, Sarge, etc. whup you.
*shouldn't you be working?*
In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
gm: Sounds like a matter of
February 11, 2009 - 17:07 ET by QueenMumgm: Sounds like a matter of basic deduction to me. Connecting the dots.
buttermouth
February 11, 2009 - 17:12 ET by Sergeant ROCKYou're losing on all fronts. Go back to the DU or Daily Koz already. Geez!
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
You're the last person to
February 11, 2009 - 17:19 ET by guttermouthYou're the last person to tell me when I lose.
Funny thing - I don't even know what DU or Daily Koz are.
Heterophobe
February 11, 2009 - 16:47 ET by Sergeant ROCKYou're hillarious, but a raving lunatic nonetheless! Look at all the baseless assumptions you made in this thread alone. Please, brownie queen!
You obviously have a dinner sausage blocking the screen, let me say again that it's the behavior I have a problem with. I don't currently know any homosexuals. I've worked with a couple here and there in years past and didn't have any trouble at all. You have to remember that they weren't raving militants about their behavior though.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
How many baseless
February 11, 2009 - 16:54 ET by guttermouthHow many baseless assumptions have I made? Quote me, please. Just about everything I've posted on this page has been a question, basically calling out your homophobia. I couldn't care any less how you feel about gays. I certainly don't care to change your mind. I'm just keeping track of how your story keeps changing. So as long as they're not raving militant homosexuals, you're okay with them serving?
Homophile
February 11, 2009 - 17:08 ET by Sergeant ROCKYeah, there were a handful. Some in the form of a question, but the intent was obviuous.
So it's male gay sex you have a problem with?
Does that mean you're cool with a couple of hot young lesbians going at it, as long as they're not sodomizing each other?
So, you just hate all forms of gays. Fine.
You're the one who hates gays here, not me.
So, if I ask the question "You liked being sodomized, right?" You have no problem then? It's just a question.
I don't know how you get the idea that I'm changing my story. My position is clear. You're just ranting and raving.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
Again
February 11, 2009 - 17:15 ET by guttermouthYou've been calling me names and making false assumptions up and down this entire page. Here's a little clue: When a sentence ends with this little symbol "?" it means it's a question, not a statement. Assumption are statements, correct?
The only reason I'm here is to find out from real live homophobes why they have such a problem with gays in the military, especially since very few people on this site are actually active in the military.
So, the answer is Yes
February 11, 2009 - 17:19 ET by Sergeant ROCKNow that you've found out, you can leave.
Thanks for answering the question, butt pirate.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
Figures
February 11, 2009 - 17:31 ET by guttermouthNothing but another a-hole homophobe. Nice with the name calling. But I'm married.
Sure you are
February 11, 2009 - 17:34 ET by Sergeant ROCKDon't be ashamed. It's normal afterall.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
Lame
February 11, 2009 - 17:40 ET by guttermouthI didn't realize I was talking to a child this entire time.
That's the best you can do buttermouth?
February 11, 2009 - 17:48 ET by Sergeant ROCKlol.. Nah.. that was you going through the terrible two's.
How often do you have these delusional episodes? Is the only treatment to peruse every website you can find that has people that would dare have an opposing view to your militant homosexual agenda? Just a question.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
Honestly, I have no agenda.
February 11, 2009 - 18:00 ET by guttermouthHonestly, I have no agenda. Just killing time. You'd be amazed how fast you can get though the day surfing around this site. Just ask knockedup3x.
Funny thing is in my life I haven't been to even one gay rights rally, parade, or event of any kind. I just happen to live in a place with a pretty large gay population and know that they're pretty much the same as the rest of us. What I do care about is their happiness regardless of sexual preference. Why? Because it doesn't affect me in one single way.
If you really cared..
February 11, 2009 - 18:25 ET by Sergeant ROCK.. you'd put out. Be a brownie queen for a weekend. Join the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence or some other militant homosexual movement. Put your big talk into action. Yeah, like that's going to happen?
All those convinced by buttermouth's eloquent argument to allow homosexuals to 'serve openly' in the military - raise your hand!
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
"Honestly, I have no agenda."
February 12, 2009 - 21:53 ET by RESTLESS 1Bullsh!t gutter. EVERYONE has an agenda.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
"EVERYONE has an agenda."
February 12, 2009 - 23:02 ET by shawn228Hi Restless
Whats your agenda? ;-)
He had my vote
A select, hand rolled cigar
February 12, 2009 - 23:22 ET by RESTLESS 1And just enough Irish Whiskey to take the edge off. A case should suffice. :)
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
I swear i see the straw man argument being created
February 11, 2009 - 21:37 ET by kdizzydazeI thought you left this thread??
God made man, but he used a monkey to do it -- DEVO
A Primer on Normal
February 11, 2009 - 16:16 ET by SickofLibsPenis + vagina = normal behavior
Penis + male anus = abnormal behavior
Or to put it another way:
Penis = part of reproductive system
Anus = part of digestive tract
Here's a little thought
February 11, 2009 - 16:22 ET by guttermouthYou realize that all gay people don't have anal sex, right? Being gay doesn't make you enjoy anal sex any more than a hetero, and in case you're unaware of this as well - straight people have anal sex too. So according to your argument, anal sex is okay, just as long as it's not male on male, right?
P*nis and female an*s
February 12, 2009 - 21:18 ET by shawn228This has nothing do with gays in the military. I'm not trying to argue with you either just something has gotten my curiosity about your labeling.
If it was a Penis and female anus, is it still abnormal behavior?, because it is because it is between a man and woman?, if you drank too much and your aim was off and hit the ...um part of the digestive tract, is that considered unintentional abnormal behavior? :-)
He had my vote
It's pretty basic:
February 11, 2009 - 16:06 ET by SickofLibsNaked straight guys are uncomfortable with naked gay guys seeing their weenies, since to them it is more than 'just another weenie.'
Of course this is only a showering/barracks scenario. Exposed weenies on patrol is probably pretty rare.
I would imagine that..
February 11, 2009 - 16:12 ET by Sergeant ROCK.. in buttermouth's ideal military that to 'serve openly' would mean to prance around the barracks wearing nothing but a cape and flip-flops chasing each other around the barracks with a wet towel. It would be a gay ol' time to be sure.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
Sarge
February 11, 2009 - 16:53 ET by choselife3xThat is one HELL of a visual.
In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
Tsk. Tsk.
February 11, 2009 - 17:10 ET by QueenMum"That is one HELL of a visual."
Must be a product of the public school system. Nevertheless, enjoy the fantasy sweetie.
?
February 11, 2009 - 17:34 ET by choselife3xWhat fantasy would that be?
In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
Hi QueenMum
February 11, 2009 - 21:28 ET by shawn228I hope all is well. It is nice to see you on the boards again. I have made a observation the last few days and I hope you don't get too angry with me asking you a question.
It seems the past few days "at least to me" you are going out of your way to pick a fight with choselifex.
She tried tried in vain to keep her home schooling thread on topic, but it somehow got hijacked and it turned into a thread about evolution and Christianity.
Are you angry that she quoted you in her tagline for a while?
He had my vote
shawn228: Thank you for the
February 12, 2009 - 11:51 ET by QueenMumshawn228: Thank you for the pleasant welcome back. To answer your questions:
1. choselife and others had the option to ignore my comments. In retrospect, I do feel my comments were mostly a waste of time and space. Out of respect for your opinion, I will do my best to avoid arguing dead-horse topics under similar circumstances.
2. I don't have to go out of my way. choselife is a pretty ubiquitous presence. In fact, if I really wanted to go out of my way to pick a fight, I'd have to spend much more time here than I feel is reasonable. And I don't see it as "picking a fight". I see it as calling someone out who is either not who they pretend to be or seriously neglecting their family responsibilities.
3. I did notice her tagline and thought it childish. No. It didn't make me angry. But if it made her feel better to think that it did, I guess that's all that matters.
It's nice of you to take choselife's side. It seems s/he's short on the opportunity for stimulating conversation in real-life and hungry for attention, with plenty of time to spend online.
~LOVE the edit job, Queen!
February 12, 2009 - 11:57 ET by choselife3xI'm impressed, you made your comment even snarkier (is that a word?) the second go round! :-O
In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
Queenmum
February 12, 2009 - 17:10 ET by sherylsimsFor the most part I have exercised my option to ignore your comments, but in this case, YOU commented about something that Choselife said (not to you) directly to her. Do you really feel it is "Christian" behavior to go around after someone acting all uptight and judgemental and then tell them that they can just ignore you if they don't like it. Come on. You are acting like a child.
I concur sheryl
February 13, 2009 - 19:21 ET by RukusI can't get my brain around why mum said those things to choose. It doesn't make any sense. She/he?? What the hell is that all about? Choose seems to be a very capable young mom who is very able to multitask. I did it with 4 kids and they all turned out better than fine. Much of the time I was home when the Mrs. was at work and I had no problems doing several things pretty much at the same time. I think mum should lay off the kids, she can't possibly know what goes on in that family. I totally am on choose's side on this. Family should be off limits. Period!
Gary
Sorry Al, I've used up my allotment of "give a crap!"
choose..
February 11, 2009 - 17:17 ET by Sergeant ROCKIt's not far from the truth. Exhibit: A
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
I can't, Sarge dear
February 11, 2009 - 17:22 ET by choselife3xI'm a homophobe! :-O
In order to be pro-choice, one must first be born. Ah, the irony.
Now you're asking for it!
February 11, 2009 - 17:26 ET by Sergeant ROCKExpect to be dazzled with the wonderment of sodomy by the resident militant activist!
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
That's not the problem
February 11, 2009 - 16:20 ET by CobraManHaving gays around is not the problem. Having gays insist that they should be allowed to force a changes in military regulations to suite their sexual needs IS the problem. If the gays can't be uniform and can't follow the same rules as everyone else, then they shouldn't be allowed to serve.
You can't be both independent AND uniform when it comes to serving in the military. This is because the military isn't a group of individuals, it's a single, cohesive unit. If you can't be cohesive, then you have no business serving in an environment where cohesiveness is vital for survival.
Obama: My job is above my pay grade
Gays in the military
February 12, 2009 - 13:45 ET by QueenMumCobraMan: Thank you for your objective, informed answer. Much of the rest of the commentary on this thread opposed to gays in the military smacks of right wing fringe. I think you effectively provided a real answer to guttermouth's argument.
It's my understanding that there is no more tolerant group than the U.S. military. This is important if men and women of various backgrounds are to work as a unit. Discipline is the key. Someone without self-discipline is unable to contain their own prejudices (edit) or consider the well-being of another as equal to their own. One must be able to focus on the mission and the part that each member of the unit plays in order to get the job done.
My position would be that I
February 12, 2009 - 17:30 ET by BDMy position would be that I wonder why it is necessary for anyone in the military to ever demonstrate their sexuality?
Having a soldier who cuts a swath through the local female population is frowned upon by the command (vice versa for female soldiers). While he might be lionized by his bunkmates the officers have to deal with his actions with the public and discourage any exhibition. I know this from personal experience.
Thus, the official policy is "Don't ask, Don't Tell" in both cases.
So why should we now turn about face and say "Everyone, jump right out there and demonstrate your sexuality?"
Gutter, not only that, but
February 11, 2009 - 15:52 ET by bassndudeGutter, not only that, but with such flashy uniforms, they would make excellent islamic targets! Presto, no more gays in the military.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
bassndude
February 11, 2009 - 16:03 ET by Sergeant ROCKWhat he really wants is to mimic that NY driver's license thing.. when was that? You know, where there were like 27 genders you could choose from for your license. See, we could then have 27 different latrines to choose from.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
Don't mean to be a downer Sarge
February 12, 2009 - 21:41 ET by RESTLESS 1but wouldn't that also mean 27 different latrines to clean? Not a pleasant prospect.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Latrine Duty
February 12, 2009 - 21:45 ET by Sergeant ROCKExactly! lol Now, we could just switch places I guess. Instead of Male and Female, we could have Hetero and Homo latrines.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
Actually not a bad
February 11, 2009 - 18:20 ET by Ruths husband BenActually not a bad idea. A gay Army division fighting in Afghanistan (in pink camo) would bring out all the Taliban and their supporters.
I did
February 11, 2009 - 15:02 ET by CobraMan"have any of you straight people out there ever had to tell people that you are hetero?"
Yes, when I joined the military in 1984, as did every other volunteer in those days.
Obama: My job is above my pay grade
So?
February 11, 2009 - 15:26 ET by kdizzydazeThen in the spirit of the don't ask, don't tell policy, wouldn't the military have done away with that question. But more importantly, did the military make you tell everyone you meet that you were hetero (or put it on a myspace page?)
God made man, but he used a monkey to do it -- DEVO
kdizzy, yes. The military
February 11, 2009 - 15:35 ET by bassndudekdizzy, yes. The military made me swear that I was hetro before I joined. No myspace tho. There was no myspace when I joined. No internet either.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
So
February 11, 2009 - 15:38 ET by CobraManSO? So, you asked for an example and I gave you one.
As to don't ask, don't tell", yes the question is no longer asked (don't ask), but the restrictions on sexual orientation still remains, so don't tell. If you DO tell, then you've admitted that you do not meet the requirements for service. Those who do not meet the requirements can not serve. It would be the same if you admitted a medical condition, that would restrict you from serving. If you admit to it, even if you admitted it on MySpace, then the military has no choice but to release you from service as you have violated the service requirements.
Obama: My job is above my pay grade
HEY
February 11, 2009 - 15:15 ET by AJBYou have NO CHOICE what-so-ever whom you get in bed with. Its uncontrollable. And I want your full-fledged support on my attempts to have all forms of marriage legalized. I want to marry my dead-grandmother, my sheep, Bessie, my cub scout neighbor, and my toaster. All deserving of my love and I just can't HELP myself for love is truly in the heart and should be codified in law because it feels good and I just can't help myself.
- Liberal Democrats - funding and supporting the eradication of inner-city babies for 38 years
I hate to break this
February 11, 2009 - 18:17 ET by Ruths husband BenI hate to break this to you, but your toaster has the hots for me. We've had a torrid love affair ever since the bagel left town.
What is the overall size of our military
February 11, 2009 - 13:44 ET by kdizzydazeJust a guess, but I am thinking that our overall military (Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Reserve, National Guard, etc.) is around 1.5 million. If that is the case, the 12,500 let go amounts to .00834% of the military. Is this really an issue that affects the majority?? According to the gay socialist party (Sullivan and Sullivan) it does.
God made man, but he used a monkey to do it -- DEVO
...
February 11, 2009 - 13:51 ET by katainkent-> DOD #'s
Those numbers are way low
February 11, 2009 - 14:33 ET by DCC1Those numbers are way low because they only count active duty, with our reserves and gaurd our military is at least twice the size listed there, around or above 3 million members.
vicis pro insurgo est propinquus
Also
February 11, 2009 - 14:43 ET by guttermouthThe percentage is wrong too. It's actually .834%, based on 1.5M.
My incoherent use of decimals be damned
February 11, 2009 - 15:34 ET by kdizzydazeCursed basic math -
Givent this correction - .834% - or, less than 1 percent of active military getting booted for choosing a gay lifestyle - and if we include non active military and reservists and take the "assumed (yikes)" number of 3 million - then the total of gays outed in the military and booted from the military is - .417% or less than 1/2 of 1%.
Just pointing out the percentages (and up until now, doing a pretty poor job of it).
God made man, but he used a monkey to do it -- DEVO
The dirty little secret is
February 11, 2009 - 16:50 ET by BDThe dirty little secret is that of those who CLAIM to be gay in order to receive a discharge, few actually can be proven to BE homosexual.
Most of these discharges occur during the initial entrance training when a young soldier comes to the concluson that waking up every morning at 0500 to go running at 0600 in the rain is not their cup of tea.
Since they cannot simply show up at the Company commanders office and gain an instant discharge, they chave to have a rationale.
Thus the, "Sir, I am gay" rationale occurs.
Hey, BD. Good to see you,
February 11, 2009 - 17:11 ET by QueenMumHey, BD. Good to see you, bassndude, and CobraMan are still around. I've been away for a while, and when I first returned thought that the place had been sold to the Nickelodeon Network
Oops. Sorry. Good to see you too, bt.
This is probably the
February 11, 2009 - 13:50 ET by gopcongressThis is probably the biggest real divide that the Republican party actually encounters, which is Libertarian (freedom of social interactions; ie, gay, marriage act, etc) vs. Conservative (control of social interactions, etc.). As a Libertarian-minded person, as well as a military veteran, I can actually say that I can see both sides of this issue, and can argue either side with excellent points.
But I will NEVER allow for the democrats or the liberals to frame this argument against me. The far more intrusive evil is the economic control of my life, which affects me far more than my positions on social issues. Without economics or national defense, social positions are more luxurious than necessary.
NOTE: this is not an argument against PERSONAL morality. It is simply an issue that can not be decided through false arguments given by the left.
Social conservativism is
February 11, 2009 - 14:53 ET by lotrSocial conservativism is not about "control of social interactions"; it is about preserving good traditional social customs.
Marriage (the natural union of male and female) has been dignified as a social institution in all cultures since the dawn of recorded history, and it is ordered to the good of the human person and society. Social conservatism is thus diametrically opposed to any radical attempt at redefining what is otherwise a fundamental and timeless social institution.
For what it's worth, personal liberty is also a conservative issue given that it is one of the guiding principles of the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights, but liberty does not mean "free of moral or sociological constraints."
And one by one dropped the revellers in the blood-bedewed halls of their revel, and died each in the despairing posture of his fall. -- Edgar Allan Poe
Good analysis
February 11, 2009 - 14:57 ET by Sergeant ROCKSome faux-conservatives believe that being 'fiscally' conservative is good enough.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Bolton/KEYES 2012
This is the same thing that
February 11, 2009 - 14:09 ET by ansel12This is the same thing that Mitt Romney has pushed since he campaigned for it in his failed 1994 senate race.
Quote: "One issue I want to clarify concerns President Clinton’s “don’t ask, don’t tell, don’t pursue” military policy. I believe that the Clinton compromise was a step in the right direction. I am also convinced that it is the first of a number of steps that will ultimately lead to gays and lesbians being able to serve openly and honestly in our nation’s military. That goal will only be reached when preventing discrimination against gays and lesbians is a mainstream concern, which is a goal we share. "
The military has long had
February 11, 2009 - 14:20 ET by HockeyKidThe military has long had proscriptions against public displays of affection (hetero). When I was in training, such displays were actively discouraged.
When gays talk about serving "openly and proudly", they mean they won't be punished for public displays of gay affection. Why should they get special consideration?
That's the problem I have with the whole gay movement. If they kept it in the privacy of their homes like normal people do, nobody would give a rat's backside what they do. Most people still find it fundamentally repulsive, but if you don't parade it around, there's nothing objectionable or actionable.
But no, they've got to put it all out in public, and demand that their perversions are accepted and approved. That's the destructive part of the whole issue regarding the military.
"Beauty is only skin deep, but liberal's to the bone." - me
Serving Proudly
February 11, 2009 - 15:19 ET by CobraManI agree with all of your sentiments. I guess that it's no longer enough for some people to simply serve their country with pride. Now, it seems, that in order to serve "proudly" some people feel that they have to assert individuality by publicly declaring their individual sexual preferences. It's a "Look at me, Daddy" mentality. It's also counter to the concept of Uniformity.
Most people do not understand why some vets like myself have a problem with this. You can't function as part of a team when you feel it is necessary to assert your individuality, for that automatically separates you from the rest, automatically puts your interests and needs above the interests and needs of the unit as a whole.. You can't put yourself above the rest of the members in your unit. A military needs to work together, or it won't work at all.
Obama: My job is above my pay grade
Well stated, CM. Same
February 11, 2009 - 15:29 ET by HockeyKidWell stated, CM. Same reason I always hated the "Army of One" slogan of a few years ago.
Army of one = one dead soldier.
"Beauty is only skin deep, but liberal's to the bone." - me
"Beauty is only skin deep, but liberal's to the bone." - me
From time to time we are forced to prioritize issues...
February 11, 2009 - 14:38 ET by ThalpyFrom time to time we are forced to prioritize issues affecting our lives. Perhaps Islamic jihad and implementing socialism may have had an urgency which trumped don't ask, don't tell. If Islamic jihad continues it's successes, don't ask, don't tell will be moot because all of the homosexuals will have been killed.
So true. And one by
February 11, 2009 - 14:55 ET by lotrSo true.
And one by one dropped the revellers in the blood-bedewed halls of their revel, and died each in the despairing posture of his fall. -- Edgar Allan Poe
textectomy. (one day I'll
February 11, 2009 - 15:28 ET by HockeyKidtextectomy. (one day I'll learn how replies work after login...)
,
February 11, 2009 - 17:02 ET by BD,