Two days ago I excerpted from an open letter to Rick Warren over at Red State calling on the California pastor to post questions to the presidential candidates, particularly Barack Obama, on pro-life concerns. Today, Red State editor Erick Erickson has given up any hope that tomorrow's "Compassionate Leader" forum will be anything but a CNN-televised sop to the Left (emphasis Erickson's):
Warren says he is going to get "Faith in Public Life" to help him come up with the questions to ask McCain and Obama. Who is "Faith in Public Life"? From the link:
Jim Wallis is America's foremost spokesman for the Religious Left. Bob Edgar, of course, is the former head of the National Council of Churches. Catherine Pinkerton sits on the Obama campaign's Catholic Advisory Council. Anybody see a pattern here? Just to drive the point home, consider the boards of directors and advisors of the FLP, which include such luminaries as:
Story Continues Below Ad ↓*Board of Directors president Meg Rlley, Director of Advocacy and Witness for the Unitarian-Universalist Fellowship.
*Elizabeth Letzler, member of the PCUSA's Mission Responsibility Through Investment committee and the Israel-Palestine Network (i.e., an Israel divestment proponent). She's also been "deeply involved" with FaithAmerica.org, an NCC outfit.
*Nazir Khaja, a Muslim leader who also sits on the board of the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Rights.
*Fred Rotondaro, a senior fellow at the Center for American Progress, run by Bill Clinton's ex-chief of staff John Podesta, which is basically a Democratic Party research organization.
*Susan Thistlethwaite, president of the UCC's Chicago Seminary, well-known to readers of this blog for her contributions to the Washington Post's "On Faith" column.
*Jim Winkler, General Secretary of the United Methodist Church's General Board of Church and Society, who also sits on the board (with Communist Party USA leader Judith LeBlanc) of the US Campaign to End the Israeli Occupation.
So don't really expect serious questions related to faith and Christianity. These people are more interested in gay rights and abortion rights than evangelism.
—Ken Shepherd is Managing Editor of NewsBusters
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Hey Rick what does
August 15, 2008 - 11:46 ET by Dan The Man 2Hey Rick what does a Pharacee look like? Look in the mirror Rick. Rick seems to have sold out and I want to know if he got his 30 silver?
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
"These people are more
August 15, 2008 - 12:03 ET by Wisdom"These people are more interested in gay rights and abortion rights than evangelism. "
...Or maybe the fact that they're NOT going to be interested in "gay rights and abortion rights" is the reason Warren picked them. Maybe they want a discussion on issues more relevant to the American people and faith. Rick Warren is smart and he knows he can't have the discussion flooded with the same two divisive and unproductive issues of gay rights and abortion. Evangelicals are starting to see past those two "defining" issues and are looking at the bigger picture of what really attributes to the well-being of our country; and Warren is leading that crusade.
utter nonsense
August 15, 2008 - 12:09 ET by lotrNews flash: Over 45,000,000 abortions have been committed since 1973 in the U.S..
That's 45,000,000 less U.S. citizens to support the entitlement system that will, within our lifetimes, bring this country to it's knees. Of course, this is but a economic-materialistic-socialistic argument that refutes the above Democratic Party propaganda. More substantial (and Christian) is the consideration that these innocents were deprived their right to pursue their life as somebody's friend, wife, husband, sister, brother, son, daughter.
"America needs no words from me to see how your decision in Roe v. Wade has deformed a great nation. The so-called right to abortion has pitted mothers against their children and women against men. It has sown violence and discord at the heart of the most intimate human relationships. It has aggravated the derogation of the father's role in an increasingly fatherless society. It has portrayed the greatest of gifts -- a child -- as a competitor, an intrusion, and an inconvenience. It has nominally accorded mothers unfettered dominion over the independent lives of their physically dependent sons and daughters"
-- Mother Theresa of Calcutta (emphasis mine)
Wisdom you just dont get it
August 15, 2008 - 12:57 ET by Dan The Man 2Wisdom you just dont get it "Evangelicals are starting to see past those two "defining" issues" because there is only one issue with an evangelist. And that is spreading the Good News. It is his primary reason for being as defined by being an evangelist. Rick Warren has fallen into Satans trap and if he ever taught Jesus then he does not now.
You have limited understanding of what Christianity is and what it means to a believer. The only issue is God and Jesus, His Son and there are no others. From that springs forth the side issues. But always first and foremost is saving souls. Everything the evangelist does is for this purpose. Rick does not seem to be uncompromising in his approach and that is where he fails.
Billy Graham was a great evangelist bbecause he never lost sight of his purpose or goal that God gave him. All things worked to that goal and always in the charater of Jesus.
Abortions and AIDS and homosexuality is not in teh character of Jesus. We are in the world but not of the world. Rick seems to be of the world.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Diagree with me
August 15, 2008 - 22:28 ET by WisdomDiagree with me politically, but do not tell me I have a "limited understanding of what Christianity is and what it means to be a believer" based off one passage I write. I have spent many, many years studying and practicing my faith. I also think its quite ridiculous to say Warren has "fallen into Satans trap" when he has successfully changed thousands and thousands of lives for the better and brought many people to Christ.
"But always first and foremost is saving souls. Everything the evangelist does is for this purpose."
You seem to be ignoring what is most important. Warren does save souls. And just because he may be connected with some people who I disagree with politically, doesn't mean he is any less Christian.
"Abortions and AIDS and homosexuality is not in teh character of Jesus."
My argument wasn't saying they WERE in the character of Jesus. My point was that many Evangelicals are starting to come around and realize there are a lot more issues to discuss than these two. Poverty, disease, education, health care, etc. So to dwell on two issues like these and ignore the other dangers to our well-being like poverty, disease, etc. is what is NOT in the character of Jesus.
wisdom
August 15, 2008 - 22:42 ET bymany Evangelicals are starting to come around and realize there are a lot more issues to discuss than these two. Poverty, disease, education, health care, etc.
you should have done these and not left the others undone. These two unproductive devisive issues. One of these is killing babies!!
But what of poverty, disease, education and health care from a Christian perspective?
"You can not support the Troops if you do not support their Mission"
The Chrisitan right doesn't ignore poverty, disease etc..
August 16, 2008 - 07:44 ET by Dee BunkThey contribute heavily to those and other charities. They have missions all over the world including some of the most dangerous places. It's the Christian left who ignore killing babies and do nothing to try and stop or limit it.
Right, Dee, except most
August 16, 2008 - 07:55 ET by motherbeltRight, Dee, except most Christians prefer to contribute directly to charities. We don't consider it the "Christian" duty of government to take money from its citizens to give to others.
And Wisdom, Rick Warren has chosen to place the emphasis of his church on social justice issues. As I said in another thread, the first three commandments refer to worshipping God. That should be the first and foremost mission of any Church. I don't believe that is true for Rick Warren's church.
As to the abortion/gay rights vs. social justice...it doesn't have to be an either/or situation.
Liberals love to say that Jesus said nothing about abortion. But neither did He say that His disciples should petition the Governor to do more for the poor, or that he should collect more taxes and use the money for the poor. He told His discciples to take care of each other.
I agree MB - forced giving is not Christian or admirable
August 16, 2008 - 08:19 ET by Dee Bunkeither. Christian giving is about giving your own money to help others not helping yourself to others money.
America gives more in total dollars and as a % of GDP than most other nations and it's because of conservative attitudes. When people think it's Governments responsibility they don't give as much.
Warren does save souls.
August 16, 2008 - 16:06 ET by misterbee241It appears your understanding of Christianity is indeed limited. Warren does not save souls. That's what Jesus does.
And how do you know ALL of those thousands that Warren reportedly saved actually had their lives changed? Warrn and his purpose drivel is ALL about increasing numbers.
Warren is charismatic and a smooth talker, a good ol boy if you will. If he calls himself and evangelist then he'd better start preaching to the lost instead of trying to save the kosmos.
And there's a vast difference between a pastor and an evangelist.
Can you show me somebody in
August 16, 2008 - 16:23 ET by misterbee241Can you show me somebody in scripture that Jesus made materially rich? He did say something about the poor ALWAYS being with us.
Billy Graham
August 16, 2008 - 02:29 ET by timrfrench61Actually, Billy took a hit in the 70s because he got too close to Nixon. And
it was said that he learned from his mistakes and made sure he focused on the
Gospel and kept out of politics.
...except "High Crimes & Misdemeanors" says he counseled
President Clinton when his affair came to light and, based upon President Clinton's abuse
of power for sexual gain as listed in the book, as a pastor he should have
publicly called for Clinton to resign... and he didn't. It is easy to get
re-caught by the sin you have been susceptible to (that applies to all of us).
Pastors should not play Kingmaker (the Avalon Hill game or the political avocation). ) Playing Kingmaker makes great political sense... and is a terrible way to pursue your Calling...
I'm with you, Dan. I
August 16, 2008 - 15:56 ET by misterbee241I'm with you, Dan. I couldnt have said it any better myself.
Here, Here, well said.
What could be more relevant
August 16, 2008 - 16:02 ET by misterbee241What could be more relevant to American people of faith than the slaughter of who knows how many millions of American citzens, who were never even allowed to see the light of day, executed for the crime of being inconvenient?
Rick Warren it too smart by half. He's a wolf in sheep's clothing. Jesus said there would be people like Warren coming - He called them wolves among the sheep - and that even the elect would be deceived.
Those two issues are divisive because the involve rebellion to God. Man's natural state is sinful, and Warren and his feel-good purpose drivel preachers will not preach that. Warren is all about increasing membership numbers and making people comfortable. Tell me please just who it was Jesus made comfortable?
The only difference between Warren and that grinning fool Joel Osteen is Warren is not preaching a prosperity gospel. But he is a false teacher nevertheless.
As far as I'm concerned Warren is a beach bum with a pulpit.
mbee... Your summation of
August 16, 2008 - 16:13 ET by bigtimermbee...
Your summation of Warren and Olsteen is exactly how I feel about the two myself.
I respect others who feel different....some in my family do.
I just wanted to thank you for putting my views all so well.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
You are quite welcome
August 16, 2008 - 16:26 ET by misterbee241You are quite welcome :).
And thanks for your words of encouragment.
misterbee
August 16, 2008 - 16:36 ET byi believe the quote is
deceiving, if it were possible, even the elect.
http://www.biblegate...
"You can not support the Troops if you do not support their Mission"
The Big Picture
August 16, 2008 - 21:53 ET by kilrodI copied this from lotr in the next post;
"America needs no words from me to see how your decision in Roe v. Wade has deformed a great nation. The so-called right to abortion has pitted mothers against their children and women against men. It has sown violence and discord at the heart of the most intimate human relationships. It has aggravated the derogation of the father's role in an increasingly fatherless society. It has portrayed the greatest of gifts -- a child -- as a competitor, an intrusion, and an inconvenience. It has nominally accorded mothers unfettered dominion over the independent lives of their physically dependent sons and daughters"
-- Mother Theresa of Calcutta
The above from Mother Theresa is the big picture, untill this is resolved in submission to God as the Almighty Creator of ALL things the U.S.A. will continue it's slide into decadence, moral corruption, and un-Godliness, which equals socialism, marxizm. The other issues, poverty etc. etc. will only continue to get worse, and the division in this country will continue to get worse untill we as a nation accept, protect, and treasure the life He creates.
kilrod
Remember, only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier
Rick Warren is interested in promoting Rick Warren
August 15, 2008 - 12:06 ET by c5thenHe is not interested in asking hard questions that are important to Christians, primarily because he is, IMO, not a Christian. Yes he leads one of the biggest 'christian' churches in the country but his actions and his speeches show, by his deeds and actions, that he is not scripturaly founded in his beliefs.
The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic. Let's get it back! Alan Keyes '08.
For such people are not
August 15, 2008 - 12:11 ET by lotrFor such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people.
-- Rom. 16:18
Rick Warren may be selling-out
August 15, 2008 - 12:14 ET by LionKingAbortion and Gay rights may not be the only issues that Evangelicals should be concerned with, but they should be very important issues and should be addressed.
Evangelicals typically are the group that stands up for the family and family values. Abortion and homosexuality are inherently designed to erode the family.
If Rick Warren does not address these very important issues, then by my estimation he would be selling-out.
Evangelical Issues
August 15, 2008 - 13:10 ET by GothampcMany Evangelicals have 5 issues which they look for (in no particular order):
1) sanctity of marriage and family
2) sanctity of life
3) appointing conservative judges and other leaders
4) being a friend to Israel
5) keeping government out of religion
If Warren doesn't focus on at least some of these points, then he's not interested in Faith in America.
gotham...Exactly
August 15, 2008 - 16:30 ET by LionKingbtw...I like number 5 ... separation of church and state ... lol
Liberals view of this separation expands to preventing religion from public places.
<soapbox>For the love of God, how does a Ten Commandments display in a court building or a school equate to congress ESTABLISHING anything? Since when is praying not protected under the Right to Free Speech?...it does not say we have Free Speech if and only if we are not speaking to God!!!</soapbox>
Religion & Government
August 15, 2008 - 16:45 ET by GothampcThe early citizens of the US didn't really believe in separation of church and state. They believed that government should not impact religion, but religion should impact government.
In the early days, taxpayer money went to printing Bibles for schoolchildren to learn to read. Taxpayer money also went to pay missionaries to the American Indians. Additionally, church services were held every Sunday in the Rotunda of the Capitol and the Army band was commissioned to play there every Sunday.
"but religion should impact
August 16, 2008 - 16:18 ET by misterbee241"but religion should impact government."
They also were all too familiar with the power of the Church of England and the Roman Catholic church in Europe. Their idea was that no state established religion such as the COE and the RCC in Europe, would unduly influence American government and vice versa.
This is a far cry from our present day attitude that a public figure should not have any religious views at all.
I once had the misfortune
August 15, 2008 - 12:20 ET by fitzfongI once had the misfortune of stumbling on to this Saddleback Church compound when house hunting a couple of years ago. And you thought Trump had an ego. That outfit is nothing more than a marketing convention, a self-serving scheme to attract volume through audience segmentation. Their service menu (complete with logos) looks like the channel lineup on in-flight entertainment. And the "off beat", "laid back" Hawaiian shirt conceit just exhibits that the church is designed for the glorification of Rick Warren...not God. The fact that this smug, self-righteous minister can command such a pander-forum is a sad commentary on the state of both political parties.
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan
fitzfong.blogspot.com
Well now
August 15, 2008 - 12:45 ET by americaneagleIt seems that you have about as much respect for Rick Warren and his "ministry" as I do...little to none. What exactly is Warren's ministry, other than selling books, growing the congregation at Saddleback, gaining favor from the media and politicians, and promoting himself? I haven't seen him doing much more than that in the time that I have been aware of who he is. It seems like he and Joel Osteen are two peas in a pod; trying their best to make money off the "gospel", while doing their dead level best to give the appearance of preaching the gospel without ever actually doing so. And they both are willing to jump through hoops to gain media notoriety as "good Christians", even though the only way to earn that designation is to actively deny or oppose the very things the Scripture tells us it means to be a Christian.
When I first heard of this conference, I pretty much knew what it was going to be. It is not about the Gospel of Christ, it is not about saving souls, and it is not about strengthening the faith of the redeemed. This is a way to announce to the world that Rick Warren is now a power player in the political realm, since he is the only person capable of getting McCain and Obama onstage together before they recieve their respective Party nominations. That is quite the political coup for the preacher-man, don't you think?
Rick Warren
August 15, 2008 - 13:03 ET by GothampcRick Warren is the Michael Moore of religion.
This will put things over the top for Obama
August 15, 2008 - 13:07 ET by Dee BunkIf Warren gives him values credibility (which he will if he doesn't give hard questions on abortion) then McCain will have no chance. Not that I think he's got a very big chance anyway.
I think that's the whole
August 16, 2008 - 16:21 ET by misterbee241I think that's the whole idea behind this forum thing. Warren is pretty influential among certain evangelicals. If he says drop trou they will. If he can give Obama some credibility, then I think his purpose will be achieved.
Slippery slope compassion ----------> socialism
August 15, 2008 - 13:07 ET by Jonah JohansenThe problem is that when you reduce economic policy to questions about the welfare of a particular specific person and you take off the table the possible negative effects on people in general and/or the effects of generalizing from a single case, the liberal will always win the debate and the conservative will appear mean spirited and un-Christian.
EX: 1. Do you think it is right that some pepole should have two houses when some familys don't have a home?
If you say yes your not compassionate, if you say no then you are ultimately committing to confiscatory income taxes and whealth redistribution.
2. Should the government make sure thatall children no matter what their parents income level receive healthcare.
If you say No you are deamonized, if you say yes then that means the majority of children who are covered by their parents employer provided health insurance will be covered by the government at an incrdible expense and increse in taxes.
3. Is it right to deport a man knowing that it will cause is wife and children to become homeless?
Should America close its doors to victims of ethnic cleansing?
If given the choice between Americans spending their disposable income on recreation and entertainment or using this money to care for the worlds sick and starving children, wouldn't Jesus want us to do the latter?
In our town the local government tried to set up group dsicussions concerning immigration between regular citizens and undocumented/illiegal alien familys. Naturally you can not have a real discussion in that context.
I was afraid of this. You
August 15, 2008 - 13:52 ET by HumanEventsI was afraid of this. You figure any time a Dem agrees to attend any event with a Republican that it has to be somethng that can only be favorable to the Dem. That's why Obama declined on McCain's townhall style debates offer. Those would serve to show how much more intelligent and knowledgeable McCain is. But the questions at this Rick Warren event will likely be helpful to Obama.
HumanEvents
August 15, 2008 - 14:52 ET by DelsaThis will help SOBama simply because he will NOT be on the same stage as McCain.
I will not watch. This is a sham and Warren????
I don't get it!
SOBama is going first followed by McCain.
Jim Wallis is America's
August 15, 2008 - 14:39 ET by motherbeltJim Wallis is America's foremost spokesman for the Religious Left. Bob Edgar, of course, is the former head of the National Council of Churches. Catherine Pinkerton sits on the Obama campaign's Catholic Advisory Council.
Not so fast. There is some question whether the Catholic Advisory Council exists.
In June, EWTN News, a Catholic network, posted the speculation that the council had been dissolved, or at least was only a paper entity (one of the members informed BeliefNet that she chatted on the phone with other members, but that was all.
From the site:
Bill Donohue had called on Sen. Obama to
dissolve the campaign’s Catholic National Advisory Council because of
what he said was the senator’s selection of “dissident Catholics.”
Donohue said most of the public officials on the council had a 100
percent rating from NARAL, a pro-abortion group.
Skimming the list of council members, I was not surprised: besides Catherine Pinkerton, a typical "social justice" Catholic nun, they include pro-choice Rosa de Lauro, pro-choice Governo Kathleen Sibelius, who was asked by the Archbishop of Kansas City not to present herself for Communion, and Senators Chris Dodd, John Kerry and Ted Kennedy.
His Catholic advisors. I kid you not.
<insert hysterical laughter>
Thanks for the
August 15, 2008 - 21:03 ET by lotrThanks for the clarification, MB. "Catholics" they aren't. It's propaganda, pure and simple, aimed at the less vigilant among us.
Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, like men sent from God. -- 2 Cor. 2:17
MB: Excellent!
August 15, 2008 - 21:20 ET by celatorMB: Excellent!
I had never heard of Obama's National Catholic Advisory Council so I figured it was cobbled up at the last second for politically expedient outreach. It just sounded weird. And now your excellent research confirms my suspicions.
I'm reading the list of "advisors" and, of course, they are the usual suspects--a list of crackpots who present themselves as "Catholic", as though they represented anything remotely Catholic in their views. All that's missing from the list are Richard McBrien and Andy Greeley. And maybe they are on the list somewhere. Yikes.
The major media report only half the news. Why are they surprised they have only half the potential audience?
I have a question
August 15, 2008 - 14:43 ET by DelsaHow do we know Rick Warren is NOT a LIBERAL?
Because he wrote a book?
Because he believes in GOD?
Sorry, I know pleanty of good Catholics (I say Catholic because I am one) who are conservative when it comes to family values and very liberal when it comes to social values.
Has Rick sold out or is it that we do not know who or what he really is?
This is a REAL question. And I do not have the answer. All I do know is you cannot judge THE BOOK BY IT"S COVER!
just sayin
I don't have an answer, but
August 15, 2008 - 14:56 ET by sarcasmoIf the pastor took this 10 question quiz & released the results, we'd find out a lot...In fact, it might be educational & fun if the Presidential candidates spent 5 minutes doing the same thing.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
hahaha
August 15, 2008 - 22:27 ET by Wesen10 questions and a tennis racquet... by gosh it had a sweet spot. Uh, doh, oh, um, yee, umm, eee, iii, ooo, ahh... and you're a Centrist.
a centrist??
August 16, 2008 - 22:00 ET by sarcasmoI'm not sure what -- if anything -- your comment means. The quiz is a measuring device (see the extensive quiz FAQ for details/history) and having a "sweet spot" would distort what it's trying to measure.
JMR
The tax & spend drug war looks racist in the real world.
calling the play
August 15, 2008 - 21:11 ET by lotrWe (or should I say, I) aren't judging the "book's" interior.
By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? -- Matt. 7:16 (emphasis mine)
> 45,000,000, and counting.... who's going to give account to the Author of Life?
The so-called religious
August 16, 2008 - 04:55 ET by Andrew H.The so-called religious left has no compassion for the unborn. It is for them as it is for all leftists, all about "me," and to hell with scripture.
Bunch of phonies and so much for their "faith." Their faith is in the now and "what can society give to me."
Bull-shit.
Liberalism is a convenient lie.
Wow! I thought Rick Warrens questions were great
August 16, 2008 - 21:07 ET by Dee BunkIt was a great surprise. He didn't shy away from the abortion issue - of course Obama side stepped that and most other questions with platitudes.
After watching the Obama part I thought that McCain couldn't stand a chance but after McCain spoke, his direct responses drew attention to Obama's himming and hawing and non answers.
I actually feel a lot better about McCain after this. I now feel like he has a chance. Their is a stark difference in knowledge that comes through very clearly. Unfortunately the huge difference in funds that Obama has over McCain could prove to be insurmountable
Dee...
August 16, 2008 - 21:13 ET by Clear thinkerSo do you want to cancel that little wager we have?
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
Making fun of AGW http://giovanniworld.wordp
Clear - I might have to!
August 16, 2008 - 21:26 ET by Dee BunkDid you watch it? I was really impressed and like McCain better now. It doesn't forgive some of the things he's done, but I have to say he comes off very very authentic. I don't mind so much if people disagree with me if I feel they are being honest and I really felt McCain meant what he said and didn't try to avoid answers.
I believe that he is honest enough that even if he has changed on a position for political reasons, he will honor his word more much more than Obama. That is what I admired the most about Bush is that he stuck to what he ran on (even though I didn't always agree with some of the individual things he ran on). Obama has such unclear positions that I don't even know how someone could hold him accountable.
Dee...
August 16, 2008 - 21:36 ET by Clear thinkerNo, I did not watch it, had no interest in it.
As soon as Obama became the nominee for the dems I knew McCain would win. Remember, my reasoning at the time was the race issue, but I had no idea how incompetent Obama would be once it got down to the nuts and bolts of a campaign.
I still think McCain will win and race will be a part of the reason why. However, I still won't vote for him.
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
Making fun of AGW http://giovanniworld.w
Clear - I'm not that confident with Obama's huge money advantage
August 16, 2008 - 21:41 ET by Dee Bunkand pass from the media.
This debate really drastically changed my opinion on McCain. I still wish we had a different nominee but I don't feel quite as bad about voting for him.
Dee... $...
August 16, 2008 - 21:46 ET by Clear thinkerMcCain is starting to pick up in donations. He collected 27 million dollars in the month of July and is now over the 100 million dollar mark of cash on hand.
Plus, we still don't know how things will look after the dem convention. Personally, I think Hillary is going to stab him in the back.
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
Making fun of AGW http://giovanniworld.w
Clear - but Obama raised $51 in July and won't be limited
August 16, 2008 - 22:39 ET by Dee Bunkafter the convention like McCain will. McCain is so far behind Obama in $.
I was hoping Hillary would some how pull it off, now I'm not so sure. I definitely rather have her as President than Obama but now I'm starting to think it's possible (though still unlikely) that McCain could win.
Dee...
August 16, 2008 - 22:47 ET by Clear thinkerWe shall see.
BTW... I have big plans for the money I will win from you.
;-)
45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm
Making fun of AGW http://giovanniworld.w
I'm going to have to break down and get paypal
August 16, 2008 - 22:50 ET by Dee Bunkto transfer that dollar ; )
Clear Thinker
August 17, 2008 - 08:54 ET by DontFeedTheTrollsI still think McCain will win and race will be a part of the reason why. However, I still won't vote for him.
I think you are wrong (and hope I'm the one who is wrong) because:
Conservatives like you won't vote for McCain
Every uninformed bubblehead in the country will vote Obama
D
Keep the ILLEGALS out, join NumbersUSA to send free faxes to your reps.
McCain hits home run
August 16, 2008 - 22:18 ET by JerCriticise Rick Warren to your heart's content...but after actually watching the performances of Obama and McCain, and listening to the thoughtful responses to the pastor's virtually identical questions posed to both candidates, it was, in my view, clearly McCain's finest hour.
True, McCain had a slight home field advantage, but while Obama didn't embarrass himself, the "old man" literally knocked it out of the park. McCain supporters should only hope the "not quite religious enough" Pastor Rick would host similar forums on a weekly basis.
Jer
Hi Jer....I watched it
August 16, 2008 - 22:25 ET by bigtimerHi Jer....
I watched it all..plus the talking heads on Fox and CNN afterwords...
McCain cleaned his clock...Obama's second hand wasn't even tickin'....and you know it....I do not care how they try to spin it.
<edit> as an add on...I have to give Warren credit...he did a better job than any of the msm has so far. I was disappointed illegal immigration didn't come up...
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
BT - Warren did much better than I thought from what was said
August 16, 2008 - 22:47 ET by Dee BunkI looooooved his abortion question. It was perfect to ask it the way he did. Asking at what point the unborn should have rights was how it should be stated. Obama of course side stepped it and McCain answered perfectly. Obama couldn't give any time, so I guess that means (as his voting record indicates) that he is okay with it up until birth.
Dee... Yep...I was
August 16, 2008 - 22:52 ET by bigtimerDee...
Yep...I was pleasantly surprised by the whole thing....
Enough said...
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
bt and Dee...I was
August 16, 2008 - 23:11 ET by Jerbt and Dee...I was switching back to Olympic coverage during the wrap-up, but I did hear Pat Buchanan on MSNBC express his utter astonishment at how well McCain had performed. I was compelled to agree with him. Every anecdote was poignant and meaningful, and every policy response was right on the money in terms of effectively and concisely delivering the message he intended.
Jer
Jer - what did you think about Obama?
August 16, 2008 - 23:32 ET by Dee Bunkand my question below? Did you think he was kind of boring?
Dee...to be completely
August 17, 2008 - 00:18 ET by JerDee...to be completely honest, I dozed off during his segment. [Does that answer your question?]
From what I saw, I wasn't particulary inspired. But, I don't think he was a complete bust. I'll give him a B-. Mac gets an A+.
Jer
I agree with your assessment and grades
August 17, 2008 - 08:23 ET by Dee BunkObama still came off as likable and cute but there was no substance. If I would have graded him before McCain cam on I would have given him a B+ because even though I had seen through his double talk and found him boring, I wouldn't have expected most people to. After McCain came on it really showed the difference between long drawn out excuse making answers that didn't really answer the questions and good forceful confident answers.
I felt a similar thing when Obama and Hillary would debate. She had a much better command of the facts and was a much better speaker. The difference here is that McCain comes off 1,000 times more authentic than either Hillary or Obama.
I'm glad you saw it that way too Jer. I was really shocked
August 16, 2008 - 22:43 ET by Dee Bunkat how well McCain had done. On top of just being more knowledgeable and forceful and straight forward, he was just a lot more interesting?
I'm curious if any liberals thought Obama was boring. I was really bored with him. He still looked attractive and had a nice smile but I'm no longer thinking that he his a better speaker than McCain.