The 2nd Amendment a 2nd Class Right?

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NewsBusters.org | MRC.orgIt's a funny thing about the Bill of Rights. Rather than view each Amendment's protections as equally valid, many (but not all) liberals tend to enshrine some as sacrosanct but dismiss others at antiquated. Hence the First and Fourth amendments and their protections of free speech and press and freedom from unreasonable search and seizure respectively are held in extremely high regard, with state or federal restrictions on these rights held to strict scrutiny. But the Second Amendment and the right to keep and bears arms, eh, not so much.

But shouldn't a major newspaper like the Los Angeles Times take due care to not echo that line of thinking in its reporting? Above at right is a screen capture for a teaser headline on the L.A. Times Web page that hints that the First Amendment's protections are more iron-clad in their nature as individual rights than the Second's guarantee of firearm ownership rights.

What's more, in the third paragraph of reporter David Savage's article, the writer seems to suggest the Second Amendment does not guarantee the right to keep and bear arms because, well, the Supreme Court hasn't said as much (emphasis mine):

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The case [Heller v. District of Coumbia] has drawn wide attention not because of the district's law itself, but because the court may decide for the first time whether gun rights are truly protected by the Constitution, like the right to free speech and the right to freely practice one's religion.

Otherwise, Savage did a fairly decent job representing both sides of the Heller handgun ban case, and it is true that the Supreme Court does not have an extensive history of case law on the Second Amendment to the extent that it does on the First, Fourth, or Fifth. But just because the Court has not made numerous rulings striking down affronts to free speech or freedom from unreasonable search and seizure does not mean that gun rights are non-existent for a dearth of Court precedent.

Isn't it kind of like saying that prior to rulings overturning flag burning bans and protecting animal sacrifice that free speech and freedom of religion were not "truly protected" by the Constitution?

—Ken Shepherd is Managing Editor of NewsBusters


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Our Living Constitution

Article III Section 2 of the Constitution reads:

In all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party, the Supreme Court shall have original jurisdiction. In all the other cases before mentioned, the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the Congress shall make.

Well guess what --- this section of the Constution is no longer followed.  Congress and the courts have ordained  dual original jurisdiction.   Your case goes to Federal District Court, not the Supreme Court.

The  Constitution iteself does not give  Federal District Courts the ability to review the constitutionality of laws.  The Constitution also does not vest habeus corpus review in Federal District Courts to the exclusion of Military Tribunals.  But yet some judges see it that way.

So don't expect miracles. The Constitution is a living breathing document.

Appellate Courts

"The Constitution iteself does not give Federal District Courts the ability to review the constitutionality of laws."

Yes, it does.

"In all the other cases before mentioned, the Supreme Court shall have
appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions,
and under such regulations as the Congress shall make
."

This give Congress the power to create courts inferior to the Supreme Court which can decide on the constitutionality of laws, like the various appellate courts may do. It also gives Congress the power to create other courts, like Military Tribunals, that are exempt from jurisdiction of the Supreme Court.

I May be Missing Your Point

We may be in circles talking around each other. Your are correct in saying that judicial review of the constitutionality of Federal laws is not prohibited by the Constitution.  Congress could vest such powers in its courts including the District Courts.

However, Constitutional review of Federal laws by the courts dates back to Marbury v Madison.   In many ways it is an "assumed" power of the United States Supreme Court and the inferior courts, derived from the traditions established in that court ruling.

There may be specific Federal Statutes which authorize constitutional reviews of laws. I am not aware of any.    My point was judicial review of constitutionality issues is not explicitly in the Constitution.

The point is important. For example - if Congress were to grant itself the power to review Supreme Court decisions on the constitutionality of laws, I am not sure there is a constitutional basis for saying that is improper given the wording of the Article III.

The Federalist on Constitutional Review?

allanf:  I'm no constitutional scholar, but somewhere in the back of my mind it seems I have read that this point was covered in The Federalist papers and further that, as you stated, Marbury v Madison was essentially a usurpation by the court of the powers actually delegated to it.  Maybe someone more familiar with this has some cites.

 

 

"The future is not set.  There is no fate but what we make for ourselves."

michaelyon-online.com

Inherent Power

"My point was judicial review of constitutionality issues is not explicitly in the Constitution"

It's explicit in
Article 3, Section 2.

"The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority; ..."

The Constitution gives the various courts the power to review and judicate any and all controversies in Law and Equity. This means that only the Courts may decide if a particular law is or is not constitutional.

Constitutional review?

"The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority; ..."  

I do not see in that clause where the power to decide whether a law,that it does have the right to review a case under, is constituional or not.  There is nothing in there that grants them the power to either change or declare invalid, the laws made by the legislative branch.  I believe the original intent was to have the court review cases under the laws the legislature passed, and, over the course of time, if the law was found to be wanting, to have the legislature change the law.  Not the other way 'round.

I would love to see a constitutional scholar like Mark Levin weigh in here. 

 

 

 

"The future is not set.  There is no fate but what we make for ourselves."

michaelyon-online.com

Court ordered remedies

"There is nothing in there that grants them the power to either change
or declare invalid, the laws made by the legislative branch."

Only the Courts can make a determination of what is constitutional. Congress, though federal law, has given the Courts the authority to decide the remedy of inequities in law, like ordering someone to pay monies to anyone that Court has determined has received inequitable treatment.

In the case of a gven laws and its constitutionality, the Court is limited as to the remedies that may be imposed as the Constitution doesn't give the Court the authority to create or modify laws, only enforce them through the judiciary process as defined by Congress. This means that the court can order Congress to review and modify or invalidate an existing law, as only Congress has the power to create and/or modify laws. This doesn't mean that the Court is invalidating a given law, but it does mean that the Courts have the power to order Congress to review a law and to order the President to stop enforcing a law until the inequity is eliminated.

Constitutional law

I am not trying to be flip here, but I'm wondering if you are a constitutional lawyer?  I am not seeing, in the clause that you cited, i.e. Article III, section 2: 

"In all the other cases before mentioned, the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the Congress shall make."

where the court is granted the power by the constitution, to overturn laws made by the legislature.  Unless we go to an interpretation that fits the Marbury v Madison mold, and later the expanded progressive "living constitution" model of what the court should be.  I have heard many lawyers of a progressive persuasion on the talk shows etc. when they get into more cerebral discussions that address these issues.  They always explain for the unwashed among us how the court was granted the power to overturn laws duly passed by the legislature, i.e.  "This doesn't mean that the Court is invalidating a given law, but it does mean that the Courts have the power to order Congress to review a law and to order the President to stop enforcing a law until the inequity is eliminated."  Legislating from the bench, IMHO.  Granted, though, I don't understand a lot of what you said.  It doesn't make sense that the founders would have given one branch of government the power to overturn another branch.  I really don't understand your position that "Only the Courts can make a determination of what is constitutional".  Probably due to my point of view regarding the role of the supremes.

My point of view comes from the reading I have done that takes an original intent point of view and I don't believe Marbury v Madison and all that followed fits that interpretation.  Of course it is possible that I am misinterpreting what I have read and heard regarding the original intent viewpoint.  As I said, I am certainly not a law student, and would love to have someone with an original intent viewpoint weigh in here.

 

"The future is not set.  There is no fate but what we make for ourselves."

michaelyon-online.com

Want to know why the courts

Want to know why the courts were created, and what the intent was?

Follow this link You will know exactly what the founders intended.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

I was wrong.

bassn:  thanks for the link.  Obviously I was coming from an indefensible position, and cobraman was correct, the intent was for the supremes to have the ability to declare laws unconstitutional.  What hangs me up, I guess, is that Publius states that the courts, as established, are the weakest of the three branches.  That does not seem to be the case anymore.  Also, it seems to me that Publius is saying that the judges are charged with interpreting the original intent of the law, not finding new meanings or directions for it to go in.  The progressives have taken advantage of a weakness in the system and turned it to their advantage. 

"The future is not set.  There is no fate but what we make for ourselves."

michaelyon-online.com

Nofate. Very true. It was

Nofate. Very true. It was the courts that were created to interpet the laws as constitutional or not. From a Constitutional stand point, the courts cannot change the laws, only rule on the legality of the law. The lower courts are intrusted to interpet the State laws as discribed by the States Constitutions. We have allowed the Courts to "read" into the constitutions what they wish, and now it will be hard to take that power from them. But it can be done.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

Right to Remedy

It is true that the Judiciary Act gives Federal Judges the right to craft remedies. One can assert that one remedy is invalidating a law, although that is an extreme remedy. However, that power derives from legislation.

You wrote:

" Only the Courts can make a determination of what is constitutional"

I am not sure the Constitition says "Only".  The point is important, because at a future time, a Congress might want to reserve for itself the right to overturn Supreme Court decisions such as Roe v Wade.

Actually, I believe they

Actually, I believe they can.  Congress could pass a law outlawing abortion specifically by over riding the SCOTUS decision.  They did something similar to that with the SCOTUS Kelo decision, the Congress turned around and basically threatened a cut off of federal dollars to any jurisdiction who did as New London did.  They could still take people's property and give it to another but had they done so they would lose federal funds.  BTW- The Dred Scott decision if I am not mistaken was also invalidated by Congress passing laws, you do remember the Emancipation Proclamation that freed the slaves only in the south.  Just because the SCOTUS rules on something doesn't mean the Congress doesn't have the right to pass a law to undo the decision.  The only reason why Roe v Wade stands today is that not enough pro-life people were available to overturn the decision.  Congress has the authority as the people's respresentatives to pass a law that states Life begins at conception and set forth a judicial process to address on a case by case basis any exceptions.  As it stands now, the exceptions have become unreasonable to any rational person. The SCOTUS can not overturn that law. 

This is whole point of self governance, we the people decide what the rules are, not the elites or unelected judges, any violation of that governing principle lays the ground work for revolution.  In the end, just because you can force your opinion on someone else via clever manipulation and by means of physical force only means a state of tyranny exists. The Declaration of Independence says the people are within their rights to end any such tyranny.  The SCOTUS is playing with fire in the gun ownership issue, anyone who does so risks getting burned.  If they can rationalize taking away a fundamental right then it's only a matter of time before they can take all the rest of them with equal ease.  At that point, the US ceases to be a Republic, but a dictatorship of elites, it doesn't matter how much rubber stamping is paraded by voting, you will remember the USSR, they allowed their citizens to vote as well and did it mean anything?  A choice is not a choice, when someone else does the choosing.

 Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008  Long Live the Empire!  Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.

The Weakest Branch

The judiciary is by design the weakest of the three branches of goverment. Lest anyone doubt this, think of what would happen if SCOTUS ruled that Gitmo detainees must be released in CONUS with the weapons their weapons returned.

Hamiltion, who advocated judicial review of laws wrote:

This simple view of the matter suggests several important consequences. It proves incontestably, that the judiciary is beyond comparison the weakest of the three departments of power [1] ; that it can never attack with success either of the other two; and that all possible care is requisite to enable it to defend itself against their attacks. It equally proves, that though individual oppression may now and then proceed from the courts of justice, the general liberty of the people can never be endangered from that quarter; I mean so long as the judiciary remains truly distinct from both the legislature and the Executive. For I agree, that "there is no liberty, if the power of judging be not separated from the legislative and executive powers." [2] And it proves, in the last place, that as liberty can have nothing to fear from the judiciary alone, but would have every thing to fear from its union with either of the other departments; that as all the effects of such a union must ensue from a dependence of the former on the latter, notwithstanding a nominal and apparent separation; that as, from the natural feebleness of the judiciary, it is in continual jeopardy of being overpowered, awed, or influenced by its co-ordinate branches; and that as nothing can contribute so much to its firmness and independence as permanency in office, this quality may therefore be justly regarded as an indispensable ingredient in its constitution, and, in a great measure, as the citadel of the public justice and the public security.

Congress and court rulings

I don't think that Congress can overturn or nullify a court decision or ruling, but they can modify future court decisions by creating new legislation.

For example, and this is purely hypothetical, the Supreme Court may rule that existing federal law prohibits the mention of public officials during a political campaign. This would have the effect of requiring all candidates to omit the names of public officials in campaign speeches and literature. Congress can not override that ruling by creating retroactive legislation but it can make NEW legislation that allows for the inclusion of the names in FUTURE campaign speeches and literature. It can also create legislation that prohibits the punishment of past violations of said law, similar to a presidential pardon. This would not nullify a ruling, but it would counteract the results of such a ruling.

Cobra, yes they can.

Cobra, yes they can. Congress is given the power to make laws, the courts to enforce the laws, interpet the laws and rule on the Constitutionality of laws. Congress has the expressed power to make laws, not the courts. As long as the laws to not violate the Constitution, the courts must uphold the law.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

Congress and the Courts

Article 3. Section 1 of the Constitution states:

"The judicial Power of the United States, shall be vested in one supreme Court, and in such inferior Courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish."

The Constitution places the power of the judiciary in the Supreme Court (and any inferior Court Congress may create thorough legislation), not in Congress. This means that Congress has the power to make laws through their legislative authority, but they do not have the power to JUDGE and determine guilt or innocence for any presumed violation of law. How can Congress assume the power of the judiciary by nullifying EXISTING court decisions? That would violate the separation of powers, and that would be unconstitutional.

Congress can, however...

Control the Courts' jurisdiction. Meaning abortion could in theory become a states' rights issue tomorrow, assuming a bunch of 'em who talk a good game on federalism suddenly became vertibrates...
JMR

A corruption-story the TV media will-not cover.

Sarc, according to the

Sarc, according to the Constitution, it is a State question. Not a federal one. It was not reserved for the federal goverment in the Constitution, therefor, according to the Constitution, it is a State question.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

(This isn't my area, but...)

IIRC the Congress has legislated a lot, already, on Federal vs State jurisdiction, and stare decisis (lawyer-ese for "we may often be wrong, but at least we're consistent!") would indicate they'd need to take action again in order to make it a states' righst issue IMO. A certain inconveniently-reelected congresscritter keeps introducing such legislation, and (much like the Founders) keeps getting-ignored by big government types -- including some who talk a good "small government" game but refuse to walk the walk. I don't have time, but it should be easy to look the repeatedly-ignored legislation up. And keep in mind, states' rights means that different states might take different actions, likely to upset both sides on this issue.
JMR

A corruption-story the TV media will-not cover.

Good one!

"lawyer-ese for "we may often be wrong, but at least we're consistent!""

 

LOL That's a good one! I am SO stealing that!

Sarc, wasn't it ORIGINALLY a "states' rights" issue?

IIRC, until that infamous 1973 ruling, each state had it's own abortion laws, right? What would stop the "Supremes" from snatching it up again?

Face it, if they didn't, a whole can of worms would be opened back up.

I'm with you, it should be a states' rights issue. But I can't see how you can put the mushroom cloud back into that shiny metal sphere. 

And isn't that the point

And isn't that the point of stare decisis in the first place?  How many times does the Court have to revisit the issue before they stop messing with what people already decided upon and practiced for generations? The fact is they shouldn't do it at all, they need to honor what the legislature passed and not interfere with the people's daily life.

Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008  Long Live the Empire!  Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.

Congress can remove jurisdiction from the lower Federal courts

The only reason a court like the Supremes got the Roe case in the first case is a lower Federal court's decision, and Congress does control jurisdiction of Federal Courts. By eliminating those cases, Congress could eliminate the possibility of another Roe (Federally -- states would still be their own problem).

The problem is that even ostensibly pro-life bills written by statist Republicans these days cite the overstretched Interstate Commerce Clause as their justification, as if using/confirming the main intellectual tools/justifications of obese government will somehow magically work to shrink it. Not too bright, if you ask me...
JMR

A corruption-story the TV media will-not cover.

But the rights to legislate

But the rights to legislate and make laws are vested in Congress. The Supreme Court valadates the Constitutionality of the laws. Like a law banning all guns, would be ruled as Unconstitutional. If a court decision is arrived at, and contrary to the will of the people, (as a whole), Congress can legislate the law to its liking. Hamilton has this all down in his letters. Not that we pay any attention to the founders anymore.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

Congress makes the laws

Yes, Congress makes the laws, but they do not, and can not, judicate the laws (you know, make judgments of guilt or innocence). In other words, Congress does not have the authority to determine if a law has been violated. That can only be done by the judicial branch of the government. The Constitution does not allow for a singe government body to both make the laws and judge violations of the laws. That concentrates too much power in one governmental body. And that, invariably, leads to tyranny and oppression.

Very true, and I agree. And

Very true, and I agree. And Congress can make new laws to repeal old ones, or ones that they do not agree with. For my money, they make far to many laws. Many times, little nobody cares laws. If they would just follow the founders wishes, things would be much better.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

"I would love to see a

"I would love to see a constitutional scholar like Mark Levin weigh in here"

 

I was thinking the same thing I love "The Great One"

 

 

I was a professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world's first analrapist

Seems to me, that someone

Seems to me, that someone in LA would be infavor of unrestricted gun rights. Every street punk has one, an illegal one. But their prejudice keeps seeping through, each and every article they write.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

I don't own a gun ... I

I don't own a gun ...

I DO OWN the RIGHT TO own a gun ...

To me, THAT is much more important than owning said gun ...

 But ... that's just me.

 

When you men get home and face an anti-war protestor, look him in the eyes and shake his hand. Then, wink at his girlfriend because she knows she’s dating a pussy… ~ Attributed to General Tommy Franks

Can you imagine a story

Can you imagine a story wondering whether free speech rights are truly protected by the Constitution?

So the Constitution is uselesss until the Supreme Court rules on it?

motherbelt,

Actually I can.

There are most likely many in the MSM who believe that the 1st Amendment only applies to them, and not the general public.

Theme for Election '08: I want my mommy!

"There are most likely many

"There are most likely many in the MSM who believe that the 1st Amendment only applies to them..."

Only every editor of a "letters-to-the-editor" column.

"Freedom of the press only applies to those who have one." - someone who I'm not sure I remember (Mark Twain, maybe?)

Right on, MB

Right on, MB. The Bill of Rights is crystal clear on the rights of individuals in the United States of America.

The "Living" Constitution Lives!

Still doing everything possible to "evolve" the constitution, the progressives of a bygone era still live.  This is what Rush means when he says that the libs have to be defeated (politically), utterly and completely, and is the problem with McCain, whose hero he stated is Teddy Roosevelt.  TR was a Republican, but he was a Progressive Republican, with a big capital "P", and all that that stands for.  The foundational thinking he used for his policy initiatives was almost lock step with the philosophies that formed Wilson.  And the idiots in the press, including FNC still can't figure out what "conservatives" (the true traditional liberals) dislike about the man, heroic war service or not. 

"...then the Constitution must evolve or be thrown into the dustbin of history.  Wilson's writings are chock-ablock with demands that the 'artificial' barriers established in our 'antiquated' eighteenth-centrury system of checks and balances be smashed.  He mocked the 'Fourth of July sentiments' of those who still invoked the founding fathers as a source for constitutional guidance...Indeed, the ink from Wilson's pen regularly exudes the odor of what we today call the living Constitution...Hence 'all that progressives ask or desire is permission-in an era when "development," "evolution," is the scientific word-to interpret the Constitution according to the Darwinian principle.'  As we've seen, this interpretation leads to a system where the Constitution means whatever the reigning interpreters of 'evolution' say it means."     From Liberal Fascism, p.88, ch. 3, "Woodrow Wilson and the Birth of Liberal Fascism", by Jonah Goldberg 

Interpreting the second amendment to progressive standards is a dream shared by all the libs.  Just another step in the state's quest to put us all on the Road to Serfdom (nod to Hayek).

 

 

"The future is not set.  There is no fate but what we make for ourselves."

michaelyon-online.com

They don't want a

They don't want a constitution, they want a parlimentary democracy in which the will of the majority can overrule the rights and property of the minority. 

Look at the mission statement of www.fairvote.org - they want majority rule.  So, if 50% + 1 of the people want you to remain defenseless against criminals or become a criminal yourself, that's just tough.

An 'evolving' constitution is not a constitution at all. The "living document" idea has been perverted by libs who find it much easier to amend the constitution via judicial fiat rather than by the more difficult process outlined within the constitution.

This is what tyrants do.

Electoral College Antics

Absolutely.  Note how they vehemently denounced the electoral college trying to get Gore "elected".  Now, when it looks like it may favor their cause, Hillary's bunch are all for it.

To your point, Mark Levin had a great monologue on the reasons that the founders established the electoral college, which, if I recall correctly was that it prevented the natural majority of votes that would occur in large (population) states from eternally overriding the votes of the small states. 

One of the founders (Franklin??) said that (paraphrase from memory) "if they ever find out that they can vote themselves benefits, they will ruin the country."

 

"The future is not set.  There is no fate but what we make for ourselves."

michaelyon-online.com

Shoot! ___________________

Shoot!

___________________________________ 

If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber

Order of appearance

I guess Savage thinks that the importance of each right is based upon their order of appearance in the Constitution. That means the fourth and fifth amendments are less important than the second or third.

Robust Self-Defense and the 8th Amendment

Also, imagine a news story wondering if the states could inflict cruel and unusual punishment, or if that prohibition was just on the federal level. 

Unthinkable.

As always ..do people

As always ..do people actually think that they just jotted down the bill of rights without any regard to order ? the 2nd comes after the first for a reason.

hard for tyranny to thrive if the populace has means to unshackle itself. our founding fathers had first hand experience in this matter.

 

The Second is NOT about duck hunting 

 

 

Exactly, nor is the failure

Exactly, nor is the failure of the States to maintain a well regulated and orderly militia the reason to invalidate the underlying right of gun ownership or the type of guns which is the basis for the militia. 

Why in the world you want to limit the ability of the militia to defend the country by outlawing machine guns?  How stupid can judges and politicians be? But that doesn't mean they shouldn't be licensed and regulated.  The Japanese during WWII knew full well any attempt of invading the lower 48 would be suicidal due to private gun ownership.  "A gun behind every blade of grass"  Even the Russians knew such an attempt would be suicidal, that's why we had MAD with nukes and that's why they targeted cities not just military installations, they had to kill us all in order to win any war.  80 million gun owners with 200 million guns was the fourth and unspoken component of the US defense, the triad defense was an understatement of US policy.

 Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008  Long Live the Empire!  Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.

 Exactly, nor is the

 Exactly, nor is the failure of the States to maintain a well regulated and orderly militia the reason to invalidate the underlying right of gun ownership or the type of guns which is the basis for the militia

 

Look at Switzerland...

army age males all have full auto mg's at home. That is their Militia. people don't go around gunning each other on full auto

 Don't forget to remind liberals that get all snooty and say " yeah but we have the National Guard that is the militia" umm no it's not ..it's part of the US Army ask those in Iraq if their state sent them. 

  

Which came first?

I always thought that the order of the amendments was based upon the order in which they were first proposed, debated, and finally ratified for inclusion into the Constitution. I don't think that any right is more or less important than others simply because of how it's numbered in the Constitution.

I suspect the process was far more chaotic...

For example, originally there were 12 Amendments, and the one we think of as "the Second" was the 4th. What was the original 2nd, you ask? Well, it was a provision designed to keep congresscritters from raising their own pay while in office, but that one was ditched because (as with raising the income tax above a tithe...) they assumed politicians would never display such unmitigated chutzpah. In spite of their wisdom, the Founders (followed by the proponents of the income tax) greatly underestimated the depravity of later politicians, IOW.
JMR

A corruption-story the TV media will-not cover.

The 27th Amendment

 Well, it was a provision designed to keep congresscritters from raising their own pay while in office, but that one was ditched because (as with raising the income tax above a tithe...) they assumed politicians would never display such unmitigated chutzpah.  This amendment exists in the Constitution.  In fact, it was the last Amendment to the Constitution that was ratified, back on May 7, 1992. 

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

Certainly, the order cannot

Certainly, the order cannot be an "order of importance." That reasoning would place the 10th (the power of the states) at the bottom. We know the founders meant the Constitution to be a rein on federal power, and they would have considered states' rights to be more important than last place.

All of the Rights have equal footing. Any other interpretation is nonsense.

16th Amendment

If the Amendments were based on order of importance, look at the bright side........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixteenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Co...

Is the right to own and

Is the right to own and carry a gun a fundamental right that cannot be infringed by the government, except in special situations? Few would argue that gun owners have a right to carry firearms onto airplanes, or into the Supreme Court building.

Or is a gun a type of legal but dangerous product that can be strictly regulated by the government?

Henigan, the Brady Center lawyer, compares guns to automobiles. Americans have a legal right to own a car and drive on the highway, but they must also obtain a state driver's license and abide by speed limits, and the vehicle must pass a safety inspection.

"Guns, like automobiles, can be dangerous products. I don't see why our elected representatives don't have as much authority to protect the public from the misuse of guns as automobiles," he said.

A prominent gun-rights advocate says guns should be viewed like "books and churches."

Americans would be troubled by the idea of the government licensing people to be allowed write or publish books or to preach in churches, said David B. Kopel, a lawyer from Colorado. Because of the 1st Amendment and its protection for free speech and religious freedom, that sort of government regulation would be struck down as unconstitutional, he said.

Yes, it was a fairly balanced article but with a false dichotomy.  The issue is not whether a jurisdiction has the right to regulate the use of guns, it is whether the jurisdiction can regulate it to the point of making the ownership of the gun pointless which is de facto an abolishion of the right of gun ownership. You can own a car, but if the State "arbitarily" refuses to issue a drivers license they have denied you the use of the car and that would be unconstitutional.  Both free speech and religion are also regulated! You can't yell fire in a movie theater when it doesn't exist. Therefore free speech is regulated against abuse just like liable and slander.  You can't scarifice people on an alter or have 3 wives, so therefore religion is also regulated against abuse by what you are not allowed to do. 

The point of any law is to punish the abusers of freedoms, it in no way ever protects the public from the abuse.  Just because you outlaw a behavior or activity doesn't mean it ceases to be, it only means government has the authority to punish the abuse of that behavior.  Claiming the law protects the public is like claiming life insurance protects the insured.  It doesn't.  The law like insurance is a mandated response to a certain situation.

 Lord Sidious / Darth Vader 2008  Long Live the Empire!  Come to the Dark Side, it is your Destiny.

One small caveat:

Don't fall for the "guns vs. cars" comparison at all. Apples and oranges.

You do not have a "right" to a car. You have the right of "freedom of travel," but not a right to any particular form of travel.

Besides, ownership of guns is already federally regulated far more than that of automobiles.

just a side thought

I bet the Tibetan Monks wished they did a little less chanting and little more gun hoarding right about now.

There are actually several

There are actually several cases that give the 2nd Amendment the same weight as the others. There are not a plethora of cases, but there are 4 or 5, IIRC. The problem is, these cases almost all date from the 19th century, so they may be considered "outdated." But the rulings were made. I don't have the energy to research them right now, but they mostly used the 2nd as an example (along with the 1st, 4th, 5th, and others) where the phrase "the people" was meant to denote the whole population of the U.S., all citizens. 

The only case I'm aware of in the 20th century was U.S. vs. Miller, in the 30's. In a nutshell, Miller lost, but not because of the 2nd Amendment. Actually, it was a case of the Justices being too far removed from the "real world" to realize that a sawed-off shotgun did, in fact, resemble a military arm, i.e., the "trench-gun" of WWI. They ruled that, since such a gun had no "military use," it was not covered by the 2nd Amendment (using the "militia" clause as a yardstick). They were wrong, but, in a backhanded way, they affirmed the right of private citizens to "keep and bear arms."

Strangely enough, Miller would make an interesting challenge to "military-style assault-weapon" bans. IIRC, the only stated reason for finding against Miller was that the gun was not "miltary-style."

it doesn't

It doesn't matter what SCOTUS decides. We know what it means because we're the People.

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