In a January 29 article for the Associated Press, reporter Rachel Zoll lambasted conservative Southern Baptists as "vicious" partisans who sought to "wipe out" any trace of liberals or moderates from the denomination. What's more, this characterization came while reporting on a gathering of "moderate" Southern Baptists set to convene tomorrow and featuring ex-presidents (and liberal Democrats) Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter. (h/t Steve Barrett)
Both Clinton and Carter were raised Southern Baptist, but Carter has since cut ties to the Southern Baptist Convention and Clinton frequently attended the liberal Foundry United Methodist Church in Washington, D.C., with his wife while president.
Here's Zoll's first two paragraphs:
Weary of Southern Baptists' dominance in American Protestantism, a new push is starting by other Baptist groups aimed at working on social justice issues, and showing their religious tradition is broader than the conservative SBC. Former President Jimmy Carter is leading the effort.
More than 10,000 moderate and liberal Baptists are expected for three days starting Wednesday in Atlanta for the “Celebration of a New Baptist Covenant.” Organizers aren't forming a new denomination, but want to develop common ministries that would have a big impact.
And the aforementioned offending paragraph (emphasis mine):
Conservatives waged a long, vicious campaign for control of the Southern Baptist Convention in the 1970s and '80s to wipe out any moderate or liberal thinking in seminaries, churches and Baptist agencies. Paul Pressler, a retired Texas judge and one of the leaders of the purge, famously said that conservatives were “going for the jugular” for the cause.
—Ken Shepherd is Managing Editor of NewsBusters
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Comments Policy
You see, if you want to
January 31, 2008 - 15:01 ET by mattmYou see, if you want to stick to the same doctrines and beliefs that go back thousands of years, you're a viscious, intolerant bigot. But, if you want to remake Christianity into your own new psuedo-Christian humanistic religion, you're an open-minded moderate.
BTW - Baptists are not protestants. Protestant denominations are those which were once part of the Catholic Church and later broke off. Baptists never were connected to the Catholic Church.
I'm gonna move on this before the libs do. . .
January 31, 2008 - 15:22 ET by tracheostomyBTW - Baptists are not protestants.
They grew from the same branch. They did not spring full-formed from nowhere.
Protestant denominations are those which were once part of the Catholic Church and later broke off. Baptists never were connected to the Catholic Church.
That is currently in dispute,* though the best way to trace a church lineage is through its doctrinal heritage, which in this case has been mostly Puritan-Protestant in it's belief system. Essentially, they were quite Calvinist. . .until Charles Finney came along and messed everything up.
-PJ
* For the latest development, see questions of labeling. The SBC's current faddish draw is to ape the likes of Rick Warren.
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Baptists, or what were
January 31, 2008 - 15:26 ET by mattmBaptists, or what were called anabaptists, montanists, waldenses and various other names, date back to apostolic times, even before the official formation of the Catholic Church and way before Luther began his reform movement which spawned the protestant reformation.
makes no difference to God
January 31, 2008 - 15:32 ET by TruthMongermakes no difference to God what you call yourself - as long as you are faithful to Him:)
Yeah, even Muslim. (nudge,
January 31, 2008 - 15:40 ET by dvdaughtryYeah, even Muslim. (nudge, nudge)
Well, for once, the rich white man is in control. --Montgomery Burns
or Mormon - nudge nudge:)
January 31, 2008 - 15:51 ET by TruthMongeras long as you are faithful to Him:)
You overlooked verses 8,
January 31, 2008 - 15:59 ET by tracheostomyYou overlooked verses 8, 10, 12, and 16 of that passage, specifically the parts mentioning blasphemy, knowledge, election, wisdom, teaching, and admonishment. All of which many other denominations have denied or forgotten.
But then the Bible wouldn't say what you want it to, would it?
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
truth hurts I know:)
January 31, 2008 - 16:03 ET by TruthMongerI've missed nothing - I've read the entire book more times than I can count:)
the Bible speaks for itself - needs no help from you or me:)
much to your constant chagrin
This is the last of my dialogue...
January 31, 2008 - 16:00 ET by dvdaughtry..with you because it's futile, but I just couldn't resist.
BUT as your very link shows, it's through Christ. EVERYTHING is through Christ. It is what separates Christianity from everything else.
I have never heard of a Muslim claim Jesus (in fact, Islam only teaches that he is only a prophet and not the Messiah), and until he (Muslim, Morman, Baptist, Jew, Greek, circumsized etc) does, it does matter to God.
Well, for once, the rich white man is in control. --Montgomery Burns
yeah, yeah, yeah...
January 31, 2008 - 16:03 ET by TruthMongeragain as long as you believe in Him:)
again as long as you believe in Him:)
January 31, 2008 - 16:32 ET by vrwc13...as what: good teacher, prophet, good man, sage, or God?
v
“Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. 22 On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ 23 But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’ Matthew 7
31 “But when the Son of Man[d] comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit upon his glorious throne. 32 All the nations[e] will be gathered in his presence, and he will separate the people as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will place the sheep at his right hand and the goats at his left....
46 “And they (goats) will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous (sheep) will go into eternal life.” Mattthew 25
God knows if you believe in
January 31, 2008 - 16:52 ET by TruthMongerGod knows if you believe in Him, and you will know yourself by your fruits...
If a sheep fell down a well on the Sabbath would you save it?
Labels-labels-labels. You
January 31, 2008 - 15:33 ET by tracheostomyLabels-labels-labels. You didn't read my post.
What's the most important part?
Track the theologians. Track the Bible translations.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
I read your post, and I
January 31, 2008 - 15:54 ET by mattmI read your post, and I don't disagree with you. I just made an additional point.
You say track the doctrinal heritage. Early on in Church history errors began creeping in. Many of the epistles of Paul were written to correct some of these errors. One of the biggest errors of the early Church was that baptism imparted grace to the recipient. This logically led to another error, infant baptism.
Since the bible clearly teaches believers baptism, the churches that did not incorporate infant baptism required those who were baptized as babies to be baptized again, as adult believers. Thus the name "ana-baptist", the prefix ana meaning "again". Later the "ana" part was dropped and the name became simply baptist.
The "irregular" churches (the ones incorporating many errors) later became consolidated, under the Emperor Constantine, into the State Church, which became the Roman Catholic Church - the baptists and others of similar belief and doctrine, did not join themselves to the establishment, and henceforth became the object of severe persecution.
This is why I point this out whenever I hear Baptists referred to as Protestants, they are not. And the reasons are both historical and doctrinal. And the distinction is important from a doctrinal standpoint.
But I do agree that the outward labels are not the important thing, but it's where your heart is.
Correct. I agree with
January 31, 2008 - 16:04 ET by tracheostomyCorrect. I agree with most of this.
Have you read Robert B. Selph's Southern Baptists and the Doctrine of Election?
Southern Baptists are not completely divorced from classical Protestantism either. You could say they attended the same school together. =)
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Christian Roots
January 31, 2008 - 15:33 ET by GothampcActually if you want to get technical, they both came out of Judaism.
please stand by - trach
January 31, 2008 - 16:04 ET by TruthMongerplease stand by - trach will correct you shortly:)
Coming soon from the
January 31, 2008 - 18:40 ET by MikeBComing soon from the Carter-Clinton branch of the Baptist Church: the new, the improved loose-leaf Bible. If you don't like the bits condemning adultery, just take it out. If you don't like the bits condemning homosexuality, toss those pages in the trash. That's right! Now, liars, thieves, adulterers, men who lie with men, idolaters who worship money or sex or sports or Britney Spears, you too can be approved by the Church. Now you can claim to be Christian without all that boring morality.
The new and improved Loose-leaf version of the Bible has already been used and approved by the United Methodist Church. It is silly to have to believe and live by a document whose newest book is nearly 2000 years old. What did those old men know about life? Demand is intense and growing, so order your new and improved Loose-leaf Bible today.
"A communist is someone who reads Marx. An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx." Ronald Reagan
Deliberately confusing as well. . .
January 31, 2008 - 15:06 ET by tracheostomyQUOTE: Conservatives waged a long, vicious campaign for control of the Southern Baptist Convention in the 1970s and '80s to wipe out any moderate or liberal thinking in seminaries, churches and Baptist agencies.
This statement is blurring the line between politics and theology.
Two points:
1. Last I checked, the individual church memberships of the SBC are under mostly autonomous rule. This is not merely a Protestant form of the RCC by a longshot.
2. The "long, vicious campaign for control" was actually won by the liberals and "moderates" in the early 90s, who are now strongly influencing the Baptist denomination as a whole (including the seminaries).
This is how Al Mohler came to prominence and what lead to the beginning of the Founders movement.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Are you saying Mohler is a
January 31, 2008 - 15:14 ET by Ken ShepherdAre you saying Mohler is a liberal? He's a credobaptistic Calvinist, but he's not a liberal.
GAH! I really need to
January 31, 2008 - 15:30 ET by tracheostomyGAH! I really need to correct that above statement. Thanks. I'm saying the rank and file are still liberal (mostly ignorant; uninformed). The conservative resurgence led by Mohler is still growing, and it's overall effectiveness inside the church proper is in question.
In my area of the U.S., very few pastors share any of Mohler's beliefs (hence "credobaptistic" <-- I like that.)
Thus, the "Conservative Resurgence" is in control, but it's nothing more than a figurehead. I'd liken it to the wardens inside the walls during a prison riot.
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
Okay, gotcha. Yeah, I check
January 31, 2008 - 16:14 ET by Ken ShepherdOkay, gotcha.
Yeah, I check Mohler's blog every now and then. I once or twice have included it, I think, in editors picks.
All week I have been
January 31, 2008 - 15:39 ET by ricklailAll week I have been sending e-mails out to conservative organizations such as NB to cover this event. I knew how the MSM would cover it. They are going to make us SBs look like a bunch of haters which is not true. I was brought up to believe that the Bible was the inspired word of God without error and is the complete revelation that God wants us to know. (Most of the folks at this meeting believe it contains the word of god and has errors.) I will not apologize for believing that way.
Just look at the list of speakers at this "wrecthed hive of scum and villlinary." Here is a link to videos from this gathering. Watch if you have the guts. I don't have because I am not going to listen to anyone that wants to bash conservatives.
If you ain't the lead dog, the scenery never changes.-Lewis Grizzard
Thanks Rick!
January 31, 2008 - 15:44 ET by tracheostomyo_O. . .!!!
John Grisham???
"Tickets are available for our luncheon event featuring Nobel Prize Winner Al Gore"
-PJ
"Trake: Your lofty convictions are another blemish on the rump of congregational sectarianism." -Tumbler 5/15/07
The push to remove the libs
January 31, 2008 - 15:57 ET by ricklailThe push to remove the libs was over contol of the seminaries. Most SB's put a lot of money, sweat and tears into them and were not going to allow teachers that didn't believe the Bible to have influence on young preachers.
Just this past November the NC Baptist Convention voted to pull all funding from the Baptist supported schools in this state because the schools want to eventually teach the liberal agenda. At the same time they kicked out a church that was supporting gay marriage. Each church is autonmous but they do have a common goal. To win the world for Jesus Christ. If you don't believe the Bible then how are you going to do that?
If you ain't the lead dog, the scenery never changes.-Lewis Grizzard
Jimmy Catah
January 31, 2008 - 17:07 ET by LilyPearlI knew Carter had problems when he split several years ago from the Southern Baptist Convention over the issue of wives submitting to their husbands. People get so hung up over that issue because they fail to read the rest of the scripture. It does say that wives are to submit to their husbands and it goes on to say that husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the church. Well, if I have a husband who loves me like Christ loves the church (and I do, praise God) I am not going to have a real hard time submitting to him.
Lilly
January 31, 2008 - 18:32 ET by ricklailI thought that he left over the issue of inerrancy of the Bible. He didn't believe that way.
If you ain't the lead dog, the scenery never changes.-Lewis Grizzard
I personally believe,
February 1, 2008 - 14:06 ET by misterbee241I personally believe, although I dont have any scripture to back it up, that a Godly woman is under no obligation to submit to an un-Godly husband.
And you're right - a husband is mandated to love his wife as Christ loved the church. And now much was that? Christ died for His church.
There is none so blind as they that won’t see. Jonathan Swift 1667-1745
Hey McCain Called the Religious Right 'Agents of Intolerance'
January 31, 2008 - 19:14 ET by PopularTechMcCain Calls Conservative Leaders 'Agents of Intolerance' (The Wall Street Journal)
"Neither party should be defined by pandering to the outer reaches of American politics and the agents of intolerance, whether ... on the left, or Pat Robertson (Baptist) or Jerry Falwell (Baptist) on the right." - John McCain
vrwc13 says that he would vote for McCain - makes sense to me!
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
I am a Southern Baptist
February 1, 2008 - 13:57 ET by misterbee241I am a Southern Baptist minister licensed to preach by my church. The SB churches I have been affiliated with in my life all stand on the Bible as the innerant Word of God, but the Bible is NOT placed above Jesus. He is revealed to us through the Bible. Each SB church is autonomous - we select our own pastors and leadership and own our churches. The SBC can say what they want in the Faith & Message - there is no requirement for any SB church to sign on to it. It's an individual decision - you can agree with it or not. I have read the F&M 2000 and I dont have a problem with it.
There is none so blind as they that won’t see. Jonathan Swift 1667-1745
Westboro
February 1, 2008 - 14:19 ET by ammo johnI wonder if the Westboro Baptist Church attends? I'm sure Slick and Phelps would get along real well.