WaPo Paints Boy Scouts Anti-Gay, But Not Philadelphia as Anti-Scout

Photo of Ken Shepherd.

Updated below.

It would be logical to most Americans that having openly gay adults supervising impressionable young boys under the age of consent might be a bad idea, setting aside moral or religious considerations. It would also be logical to most Americans that private organizations reserve every right to set membership standards on moral and/or religious considerations. And to most lay persons, it would seem downright un-American for any American city to evict the Boy Scouts of America, of all organizations, from city-owned property for what amounts to political correctness.

Yet in covering such a story in "Philadelphia Gives Boy Scouts Ultimatum," the Washington Post's Dafna Linzer paints the Scouts as "anti-homosexual" while failing to suggest the city's liberal Democratic politicians are "anti-Boy Scout."

Indeed, although Linzer noted in her November 19 story that the Philadelphia-area Boy Scouts Cradle of Liberty Council leadership tends to disagree with national BSA policy on homosexuality that it is bound by national rules on homosexual membership and homosexual scoutmasters.

In other words, if the Philly Scout leaders could do so and remain nationally-chartered, they'd have a more liberal stance on homosexual Scout leaders. Even so, Linzer insisted that a 2004 statement by the Philadelphia area BSA council simply (my emphasis) "gave the chapter cover to continue the anti-homosexual hiring practices of the Boy Scouts of America."

Nowhere did Linzer find any parents, clergy, Scouts, or men or women on the street to slam the liberal city council as needlessly "anti-Scout."

What's more, although it's not directly related to the immediate issue at hand, it bears repeating that Scout policy on homosexuality has legitimate purposes for the protection of underage boys, moral or religious considerations aside.

Take the case of former Philadelphia-area assistant scoutmaster David Mayberry, convicted a few weeks ago on numerous sexually-based criminal offenses:

A Montgomery County man convicted of sexually assaulting a 14-year-old boy was sentenced to 40 years in state prison today. 52-year-old David Mayberry was arrested in 2005 by the PA Attorney General's office when he traveled to Bucks County to meet who he thought was a 12-year-old boy. The boy was actually an undercover agent. In July of 2005, Mayberry pleaded guilty to charges of unlawful contact with a minor, involuntary deviant sexual intercourse, corruption of minors and criminal use of a computer. He was also charged with recklessly endangering another person because he had sex with the teen knowing he was HIV- positive.

Update/Related Item (Nov. 20 | 13:30): Bob Knight of the MRC's Culture and Media Institute has a column at Townhall.com about the Post article. Knight argues that Post "stepped delicately around the thuggish tactics employed by Philadelphia City Solicitor Romulo Diaz" who has given the Scouts an ultimatum to accept gay Scouts and Scout masters or lose a favorable lease arrangement that rents city property to the Scouts for a nominal annual fee.

—Ken Shepherd is Managing Editor of NewsBusters


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Mainstreaming Continues

Should we now be forced to subject our children to what we believe is not a good situation just to appease the Gods of political correctness? I think not. My children come first, and these special interest groups and their judicial enablers can call me a homophobe, racist, ignorant, stupid, or whatever they wish, and I will absorb all their insults to protect my children gladly.

As Ann Coulter says, "liberals are not satisfied with ruining their own children, now they want to ruin ours, while we pay the bill with our tax dollars. Call me old-fashioned too if you wish, but I don't think that homosexuality is a viable alternate lifestyle, though I will tolerate the wrong-headedness of those who do--not approve of it, but tolerate it.

Go on and be gay, I know that right now it is trendy, but the very fact the government is promoting homosexuality and attacking the boy scouts for upholding a tradition formed through thousands of years of trial and error says all you need to know about present-day America.

 We do not have a say in our countries policies, only the monied interests and their judicial proxies do.   

...this liberal

...this liberal discrimination against peds is very alarming - it's so damned intolerant, hate is not a liberal value...

peds should also be allowed to run scout troops, coach kids sports, run dance schools, maybe kids modeling agencies - maybe model bikini's, or underwear, bath soap and toys...

we must force this on the majority - it is the democratic way

TM, it was bad enough when

TM, it was bad enough when you were equating homosexuality with pedophilia on a moral level. Now you're making the leap to say that gays are pedophiles?

What is wrong with you?

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

ror-shacked ya:)

i didn't say that - you THOUGHT that right away - so what is wrong with you...?!

The article is about

The article is about homosexuals as scoutmasters. No one is advocating allowing confirmed sex offenders to be scoutmasters. So where in the article are they kowtowing to pedophiles, as you suggest?  It's obvious to me you've just gone ahead and equated the two.

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

Sarcasm

Did we miss the lesson on sarcasm in school?

Texas has a population of nearly 21 million people, all of whom are ashamed to be from the same state as the Dixie Chicks. (IMAO.us)

it's "obvious" to him -

it's "obvious" to him - very telling:)

You're wrong, Jason. Here's the bigger picture.

In the first place, NAMBLA adamantly considers itself to be a homosexual organization, and gay groups admit they've backed away only because it won't sell politically.  Regardless of that, young men (Boy Scouts) aged 14-18 being targeted by gays is not "pedophilia."

Secondly, BSA is already fighting a constant battle against pedophiles and homosexuals molesting Scouts.   The numbers of Leaders dismissed for that behavior is already extremly high.  Kowtowing to the demands of the ACLU would make that worse....not to mention that most parents would refuse to allow their sons to go camping with gay leaders.

As for the ACLU (which supports NAMBLA), that organization began pushing several years ago for this outcome in Philadelphia.   It's part of their nationwide program to destroy the Boy Scouts.

The article is about a building

The article is about the scouts losing their $1.00 a year lease on a building because they don't accept gays, even though they are constitutionally protected from being forced to accept gays..Ken led people to believe that this was about pedophiles..

I guess you could make that

I guess you could make that assumption, if you just scanned the article and didnt really read what it said.

Texas has a population of nearly 21 million people, all of whom are ashamed to be from the same state as the Dixie Chicks. (IMAO.us)

Read it again JasonC. TM

Read it again JasonC. TM never said that.

They can indoctrinate,

They can indoctrinate, oppress, and otherwise persecute all they want and they'll never change the fact that homosexuality is an abnormality at best, and that most people instinctively know it. 

A new slang among youths these days is using the term "gay" to refer to something unjust, unfair or generally bad.  Take heart: our kids are smarter than the adults who are trying to brainwash them.

Kids usually have a way with

Kids usually have a way with the truth at times. Not so much concern for "upsetting" people.

Texas has a population of nearly 21 million people, all of whom are ashamed to be from the same state as the Dixie Chicks. (IMAO.us)

This is a result of the ACLU aggressively targeting Boy Scouts

all over the country ever since they lost the Supreme Court decision.

In Philadelphia, as around the country, it's the inner-city youths who have been most affected, as their subsidized BSA programs are cut back or out.

Ken you make a good point about the BSA's common sense attitude toward gays.   For just one example, if known gay men were leading Scout Troops, most parents would refuse to allow their sons to go camping.

The fact is, there are gays in Scouting, including Eagle Scouts.   But openly sexualizing Scouting, homo or hetero, is just as wrong as sexualizing our elementary, middle and high schools. 

. . . it's the inner-city

. . . it's the inner-city youths who have been most affected, as their subsidized BSA programs are cut back or out.

And guess who is out there joining gangs (err. . ., crews) and killing each other in record numbers?

D

Keep the ILLEGALS out, join NumbersUSA to send free faxes to your reps.

Well, you know, it is the

Well, you know, it is the Conservatives/Christians/white mans fault that they have to join gangs (...er,) crews in the first place. Maybe if we just allowed everyone (except conservatives/Christians/white people) do as they so pleased, America would be a better, peaceful place.

Or maybe it would be a festering cesspool.

Texas has a population of nearly 21 million people, all of whom are ashamed to be from the same state as the Dixie Chicks. (IMAO.us)

And groups falling in line with the ACLU

When United Way starts up in my company, I refuse to donate because of their public stance against the Boy Scouts. I also make a point of never visiting a CVS Pharmacy because of their public hatred of Boy Scouts. This is my private little boycott -- and it will last a lifetime.

My son is an Eagle Scout. We're proud of him, and I am very glad he wasn't subject to a queer scout leader. It's too bad we have to deal with the ACLU pushing this kind of nonsense.

___________________________________ 

If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber

Question regarding Ken's

Question regarding Ken's opening remarks to this article: When I was a Boy Scout, we had a den mother for 3 years (technically
this was the Cub Scout phase and I think that this is more or less the norm, or was in my day anyhow). That is, us boys were under the
leadership of a middle-aged woman. How is this different from gay
scout leaders, aside from the assumption that gay people are more
likely to be deviant, lack self control, and (TruthMonger's favorite)
harbor pedophiliac impulses?

Now, please be assured that I am not blindly advocating equal employment for homosexual scout masters. I'm just wondering how people characterize it as different from a heterosexual individual of the opposite sex supervising these groups.

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

In the case of scout

In the case of scout mothers, most of them tend to be married women, usually someones mom in my experience. That would fall right into the traditional values of the scouts.

Texas has a population of nearly 21 million people, all of whom are ashamed to be from the same state as the Dixie Chicks. (IMAO.us)

Brotherly Love

I don't think when they called themselves the 'City of Brotherly Love' that
this is what they had in mind. Let the people vote.

The Boy Scouts should stick to their values. It is not worth the risk of
screwing up even one child's mind. And why would the Boy Scouts risk their
impeccable reputation. They are for the development of the children, not
indoctrination.

Shoving homosexuality down peoples' throats really gets old. Most people do
not care if one is homosexual but why can't they keep it in the bedroom? For
some odd reason the homosexual community feel it is necessary to take their
preferences to the streets and public displays. Can you imagine the chaos if
heterosexuals took their preferences to the streets too? Talk about a screwed up
world. Homosexuals also have a history of praying on young people who have
problems and are confused.

It is about time the fringe butts out and lets the children be children in
this country.

A quote

I heard this one time, I think it was Michael Medved who said it about Brokeback Mountain and gayness. "What once was the love that dared not speak is now the love that wont shut up." Just thought that was funny.

Texas has a population of nearly 21 million people, all of whom are ashamed to be from the same state as the Dixie Chicks. (IMAO.us)

Okay

"It would be logical to most Americans that having openly gay adults supervising impressionable young boys under the age of consent might be a bad idea, setting aside moral or religious considerations."

I disagree. How can one assert this is a "bad idea" WITHOUT moral or religious considerations which, let's be honest, tend to be subjective?

Firstly, what is "openly gay"? Showing up at a scout meeting wearing a tu-tu, or simply refusing to lie about one's orientation, if the subject ever needs to be addressed (which it shouldn't).

I happen to know a person who is gay but is about as ultra-conservative as one can get. He is very old-school and traditional. He keeps his orientation extremely private. I personally don't see a disconnect if he wanted to volunteer for the Scouts.

That being said, the Boy Scouts is a private club, and they certainly should have their rights of free association respected (particularly from the leftist thought police). However, if this private club was to use public facilities, and be given preference, that can be a bit problematic.

Try to go beyond knee-jerk, PC-think, Killgrave

How can one assert this is a "bad idea" WITHOUT moral or religious considerations which, let's be honest, tend to be subjective?

If you give it more than a cursory thought, the logical (not subjective) impracticality of gay men leading young men into the woods just smacks you in the face.   If that doesn't change your mind, understand that most parents would refuse to allow their sons to go camping with a gay leader.  This leaves BSA with the practical decision to either shut down Scouting (the goal of the ACLU, which goes beyond the gay issue) or continue following the logical path they have laid out.

I think I do give it more

I think I do give it more than a cursory thought.

Does it seem more logical to judge a man by his speech and actions, and not simply by what he "is" (a state of being that is heavily argued on and emotional)?

And I was in the Scouts for several years. I simply can't see how a hypothetical gay scout leader can get away with inappropriate conduct or speech, given the large amount of straight, adult males that are involved in every activity.

But you're correct. The BSA should have the final say about who they will accept into their club. However, to be fair, they also shouldn't expect any special treatment or consideration when they utilize public assets.

well then peds should be

well then peds should be allowed in there too then - as long as they behave well

Thats next.

Cant discriminate against gays because of sexual preference, cant discriminate against peds for the same reason. Then when they start molesting boys, they will be protected by the 1st Amendment cause some loon will say they were just expressing themselves and we cant discriminate against that now can we. However, let me say a prayer to Jesus Christ in a public place and see how my freedom of expression no longer counts.

Texas has a population of nearly 21 million people, all of whom are ashamed to be from the same state as the Dixie Chicks. (IMAO.us)

Killgrave, it's not only a matter of the "rights" of the BSA

As I pointed out, the practicality is indisputable, but you again resort to the subjective.

You're naive to think there aren't many opportunities for gay/ped men on camping trips.  BSA is already dealing with a serious problem in that area, and are dismissing leaders for inappropriate behavior at a record pace.

(Also check my above post to Jason regarding this, the ACLU, NAMBLA, etc.) 

Rant

I just have to rant that this kind of nonsense is exactly why I can't register Republican.

Republicans seem to be quite obsessed with gay men. They automatically label them "deviants" even if they engage in ADULT, consensual behavior. And, somehow, being a homosexual also makes one a pedophile.

Gay men don't frighten me. I don't care what adults do in private. I don't even care if they want to get "married", given that it's simply a contract between two consenting adults. I don't lose sleep over these issues, and believe that these issues actually suck oxygen away from truly important matters such as national security.

There are a lot of gay men out there, and I believe that they shouldn't automatically be relegated to the lunatic left. However, if Republicans keep alienating them straight out of hand then this will be the only place they will go.

And if you think I'm totally off-base, then take it up with Dick Cheney.

I think that its not just

I think that its not just "this kind of nonsense" that keeps you from voting Republican.

My opinion is that we are continually forced to accept gayness, and we are considered hateful if we dont. I am sick to death of hearing about the poor gays. Be gay, fine, I just dont have to accept it. And I shouldnt have it forced upon me. And I shouldnt have it forced upon my kids either.

Texas has a population of nearly 21 million people, all of whom are ashamed to be from the same state as the Dixie Chicks. (IMAO.us)

The strange thing is, that

The strange thing is, that we probably agree on most things.

You mention an interesting term "acceptance", which is what the far-left gay movement is trying to push on us. It's not enough that we simply tolerate a lifestyle the we ourselves don't understand, and maybe not like. These moonbats want to force us to "accept" these things, both in our private lives, our moral teachings, and our children.

This is where I draw the line. I believe strongly that gay people should be left alone. I also think, by virtue of the government getting out of personal business, that they can "marry". I don't have a problem with gays adopting, as long as they're held to the same strict standards as straight couples. This gets more kids off the public dole, which is a good thing.

However, once gays start demanding special rights, special protections, and attempt to indoctrinate children through the public school system.. this is where I'm back to being a froth-at-the-mouth conservative. I'll give you my tolerance, but once you push for my acceptance all bets are off.

I don't equate gays as

I don't equate gays as automatically being peds - I use the two to expose leftward hypocracy on the issue - the pro-gay/anti-ped crowd is guilty of the same kind of arbitrary discrimination that fundies like me use on gays

In fact hetero peds are actually OK - Biblically speaking - as long as the parties are married - very young "women" frequently married really old men in Biblical times - with God's blessings - Biblically speaking there is no age limit on marriage - also nothing wrong with polygamy, Biblically speaking...

Modern US/Western sexual morality is the center of OUR little universe - not God's by a long shot...

There's all kinds of sexual deviation in God's view - even for hetorosexuality - sodomy, group sex - and all things outside of marriage - fornication, masturbation, gay sex, beastiality, necrophelia...anyone practicing these are morally unfit for community leadership in God's view - and now these morals are really falling by the wayside via the cancer of modern PC

Our "Rome" is really starting to burn now - and if civic laws do not mirror God's laws then civilization falls - every single time 

The US is now moving way out of whack with God's sexual morality - and it just keeps deteriorating more and more...

I think it's funny to see the left happy about gays but down on peds - it's typical of their two-faced views on everything.. 

Killgrave, you ARE ranting

All you've done is declaim why you subjectively "feel" the way you do, but you haven't addressed why what I said is supposedly ridiculous:

"It's not only a matter of the "rights" of the BSA.  As I pointed out, the practicality is indisputable, but you again resort to the subjective.

You're naive to think there aren't many opportunities for gay/ped men on camping trips.  BSA is already dealing with a serious problem in that area, and are dismissing leaders for inappropriate behavior at a record pace."

You forgot to call us

You forgot to call us "fascists." 

Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who didn't. - Ben Franklin

My guess is that you don't

My guess is that you don't have a son.  Those of us who do, try our utmost to keep them safe.  If that means that some gay man has his "right" (to take other people's children into the woods) violated, so be it.  I wouldn't send my daughter on a sleep over with a lesbian either (if I knew of it).  Life is tough.

Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who didn't. - Ben Franklin

Ruth's Husband, Would you

Ruth's Husband,

Would you allow your daughter to have a heterosexual male coach? 

How about a heterosexual male teacher?

 

Oh boy.

Welcome to Stupidtown, population:Leon.

Texas has a population of nearly 21 million people, all of whom are ashamed to be from the same state as the Dixie Chicks. (IMAO.us)

sas.... I just sat down

sas....

I just sat down to read some of the posts and caught yours here...needless to say I just spurted some coffee on my keyboard...you got me cracking up laughing with that post of yours!

Thanks though, I needed that.

Glad I could be of

Glad I could be of assistance, sorry about that keyboard.

Texas has a population of nearly 21 million people, all of whom are ashamed to be from the same state as the Dixie Chicks. (IMAO.us)

Well, you busted me Leon.

Well, you busted me Leon. Actually, Ruth and I only had boys (I realized after I posted that my comments sounded like I had daughters). But yes, I would let a male coach my daughter, if I had one. But that is different as male coaches aren't going to be in the shower room with the girls, there are chaparones available. I know a man who coaches girl's basketball and accomodations are made for that. Do you think the gay rights movement would stand for special protection for the kids (i.e., separate shower facilities for gay scout leaders, chaparones so the gay leader can't be alone with scouts, etc.)? Me either.

Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who didn't. - Ben Franklin

RHB, I highly doubt that

RHB,

I highly doubt that scout leaders shower with their troops. 

Regardless of their sexual orientation.

I think there should be seperate shower facilities or at least seperate shower times for scout leaders whether they're gay or not.

Why wouldn't gays be allowed to be alone with the scouts? 

Male coaches are alone with female players all the time. 

What's the difference?

During a campout situation,

During a campout situation, the leaders are, in essence, living with the children.  It is unreasonable to imagine that potentially compromising situations would not occur.  Yes, they may occur in a coaching/teaching situation, but #1, this an employment issue and there are laws regarding workplace discrimination.  #2, bad things happen between teachers and students already, so that isn't the greatest example for you to use. 

I would grant you (were you gay) the right to take my kid on a sleep-over, if you grant me the right to send you to your maker if you touch him inappropriately.  BTW, this applies gay or not. 

Personally, I think people who don't see a problem with gays taking kids camping are playing social engineering games with my kids and I don't have much use for them.  Generally, they don't have any investment in the game either (i.e., they don't have children).  Additionally, they don't seem that interested in the rights of the kids who are totally innocent and deserve to be protected. 

Those who beat their swords into plowshares usually end up plowing for those who didn't. - Ben Franklin

I highly doubt that scout

I highly doubt that scout leaders shower with their troops.

  It can happen.

  I was in Scouts for ten years.  For example during a Canadian canoe trip we stopped enroute at a military facility and the showers were communal.  During the two-week canoe trip into remote wilderness (access only by canoe or sea plane) we were assisted by two college age Scout guides.  They were only a few years older than the scouts on the trip.  And did I mention we were alone in the wilderness for two weeks?

 

Killgrave, exactly, for

Killgrave, exactly, for many people whose conception of homosexuality begins and ends with garbage like Will and Grace, it's all just a man wearing a tutu (metaphorically speaking), mincing and calling everyone sweetheart. It seems to me that it's the closeted homosexuals, the ones who would never admit it to themselves much less the community and compensate with affected hypermasculinity, who parents would be more wary of. But wait, how do you identify them?

Oh yeah, you can't.

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

can't ID peds either:)

can't ID peds either:)

Jason, your shallow thinking on the subject is appalling

In your self-imagined superiority, you stupidly assume that those against openly gay scout leaders have a television sit-com vision of the entire homosexual/pedophilia question.  

Try reading the thread with something more than your own shallow, PC directed thought.

RJ, wow, this thread has

RJ, wow, this thread has really blown up since I left.

My point stands, and Leon has been trying fruitlessly to make the very same, very valid point to you. The whole premise of the BSA excluding gay scoutmasters (which I'm not saying I disagree with) is that every potential scoutmaster will be admittedly out of the closet or will bear some sort of stereotypically signifier. As Homer Simpson said (in an episode titled "Homer's Phobia", which is jsut priceless) "I like my beer cold, my TV loud, and my homosexuals flaming."

What about the fact that an overwhelming number of sex offenders are not out-of-the-closet gay men, but men who live ostensibly heterosexual lives, have wives and kids, &c. I don't see why parents don't have this fear sending their kids off with any adult male. Rejecting applicants who honestly answer that yes, they are gay, might be comforting, but it doesn't really accomplish anything.

"He was, and is yet, most likely, the wearisomest, self-righteous
pharisee that ever ransacked a Bible to rake the promises to himself
and fling the curses on his neighbors."
-Emily Bronte

Jason, you (and leon) entirely miss the point

Leon, and to a lesser extent, you, are focusing on both minutia and on your perceived idea of the typical individual who doesn't want open homosexuals in scouting.   The knee-jerk charges of "homophobia"  and "hate" are made by ignorant fools.

First, just to clarify, the BSA policy isn't directed only at gay Scout Leaders, but all homosexuals...adults and scouts.

In my first two posts on this thread, I addressed the practicality of the issue.  If BSA were to allow gay leaders and scouts, then most parents would refuse to allow their sons to go camping.  That would destroy scouting, since the vast majority of all youths who join Scouting do so for the camping. 

Additionally, the Mormons and the Baptists have already said they would leave scouting if BSA changed their policy....taking at least half of all scouts with them.

Regarding the issue of who might molest scouts, I think it's been clouded by referring to all abusers as pedophiles.  Actually, when you think of young men, aged 14-18, you're no longer talking about children and you're no longer talking about an age that typical peds are interested in.   Many of these young men are large and strapping.   They certainly cannot be classified as "children."  So, when it comes to abuse, it means you're talking about homosexuals, whether older or within the same age group.

Further complicating the issue, NAMBLA (defended and therefore sponsored by the ACLU, which is the prime driver in the attempt to destroy Scouting) adamantly considers itself to be a homosexual organization.   Other gay organizations have admitted that the only reason they won't recognize NAMBLA as one of their own is that they would lose politically.

So, what do you have?   That the department of child abuse at the FBI and numerous psychologists, among others, have flatly stated that BSA is a magnet for molesters.   That introducing open homosexuality into an organization where adults and boys can be alone for up to two weeks would be a disaster on all fronts.

What are they doing about the "closet" gays you mentioned?  As I told leon, the BSA refuses to release the figures, but it did come out in a trial that they've been dismissing molesters at the rate of one every other day.  Additionally, they have a Youth Protection program that was considered to be an excellent model for other youth groups.   I suspect that part of the reason for being so proactive is that they have been successfully sued by families of the molested....and if they allow open homosexuality, the risk and the settlement amounts will go way, way up.

Obviously, they won't be able to catch all molesters before they act, but to allow avowed homosexuals as scouts and leaders is impractical and impossible if Scouting is to exist at all.

Finally, BSA doesn't go looking for gays in scouting, whether adults or youths. There is no "are you gay" question.  In fact, there are many gay leaders, scouts, and even Eagle Scouts.  I know some.  Most just don't make an issue of it.  And, in my 27 years in Scouting, the subject has rarely even come up.   Since sexuality, hetero or homo, isn't a part of Scouting, I'm not surprised.

Well don't you think it's

Well don't you think it's ridiculous to assume that banning gays from the scouts will rid the BSA of the problem altogether?

Why can't they just except everyone and then do a better job of screening for people that might molest? 

Jeez, balboa, did you even bother to read the post?

As I said, allowing gays would increase the risk that already exists, and no one has said that keeping the status quo would "rid the BSA of the problem altogether." 

And just how do you propose to "screen" better than they do now, administer a psyche test to all adults and scouts?

Typical of the bleeding-heart left, you just want it "because you believe it's right", and damn the consequences.

I just don't believe that

I just don't believe that gays in the boy scouts would increase the risks that much. Do you think that if a pedophile really wants access to these kids, he's going to let a gay ban get in his way?

How do you screen better? As a parent, you don't let your kids go unless you know the people that are going to be there. That's all you can do.

Nice "bleeding heart" jab, though.  

"bleeding heart" fits perfectly in this case, balboa

Again, your questions show that if you even bothered to read the post, all you did was skim it.

I read it. It was so much

I read it. It was so much longer than your usual stuff, I had to see what was going on.

I understand your logic on this position, and what you've stated. Not sure this will solve any problems the BSA has with molesting. 

OK, balboa

...but "solving" the problem isn't the reason for the BSA ban on homosexuality.

Just as the point of my post wasn't to offer a solution but to explain why the BSA position is the only practical position.

Seems it's just the _easier_

Seems it's just the _easier_ position.

Again, balboa, you claim to have read my post

but your post says either you didn't read it or you suffer from extreme short term memory loss. 

balboa???

Answer the question posed here.

Scanning is key

Not only for BSA, but teachers and coachs and clergy people as well.   There is too much risk involved, why not try to prevent it.

The BSA has the right to ban gays, and the city can't change that.

Pam

You're exactly right....the city can't change that, but they can bow down to PC'ness and defund the BSA.  That happened here locally.

Private organiztions can be "blackmailed" by municipalities and other governmental entities in this fashion.   

It's up to us as taxpayers to make our voices heard.

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

I don't think it is logical

It would be logical to most Americans that having openly gay adults supervising impressionable young boys under the age of consent might be a bad idea, setting aside moral or religious considerations.

If you are setting morals and religion aside, why would this be logical to assume that?  Is it better to have the guy that teaches the kids that women are put on this earth to please men?   How about we stick to what we know:

 BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA et al. v. DALE , was a decision that held:

the Court is not guided by its view of whether the Boy Scouts’ teachings with respect to homosexual conduct are right or wrong; public or judicial disapproval of an organization’s expression does not justify the State’s effort to compel the organization to accept members in derogation of the organization’s expressive message. While the law may promote all sorts of conduct in place of harmful behavior, it may not interfere with speech for no better reason than promoting an approved message or discouraging a disfavored one, however enlightened either purpose may seem. Hurley, supra, at 579. Pp. 5—17.

 On legal grounds the city can not force the Scouts to accept gays.  I was a bit more irked with the representative from Cradle of Liberty Council, Jeff Jubelirer:

"We were trying to be amenable to all sides, but National would not allow us to keep that language, so we rescinded it. We can't have a policy where we put in specific words that National won't allow or we'll loose our charter. We can't afford not to be part of the national Boy Scouts," he said.

Jubelirer suggested the local chapter has been operating under a "don't ask, don't tell" policy for other employees. "It's not something that is asked" of applicants, he said. "But if someone were to come forward with something regarding sexual orientation, political beliefs, atheism or communism, that would be a problem."

Is Jubelirer more concerned for the building than the Boy Scouts as a whole?  This building is a small fight compared to what the Scouts have faced in the past.

Don't ask don't tell?  Is that what we should expect from a local leader of a national organization that took on its opposition and won a landmark ruling?  Maybe had they asked and told,  scoutmaster David Mayberry would never have been able to hurt those kids.

I would like to know what the national leaders are doing about this..With people like Jubelirer running things, they'll keep the building but sell their souls to the devil

this all very well but then

this all very well but then why the discrimination against open peds? or do you support them too?

why the discrimination against open peds?

What are you talking about??? The post makes absolutely no sense..Oh wait, are you saying all gay people are pedophiles?  Do you even know what pedophilia is?

Let me make myself very clear for you..I call for the execution of anyone that "suffers" from the need to have sex with children.  I figure that it is best to put them out of their suffering..The people committing the acts are teachers, priests, parents, aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, siblings etc..they consist of Homo and heterosexual people.  Not all abuse is same-sex abuse.  There is no cure for these people, not even religious counciling can set them on the right path..they have no place in our society..period.

So, Pam...

...are you saying that all leaders who molest Scouts are pedophilies?   How about the young men aged 14-18?  Would they also be victims of peds?

Can't you read?

Yes they are in addition to the teachers that have sex with their students or the parents that have sex with their kids

Oh, I read (and comprehend) very well, Pam

Sorry I can't say the same for your consistently foggy writing.

Males age14-18 are young men, not children.  Pedophiles would consider them too old, but they are attractive to certain homosexuals.

BTW, NAMBLA considers itself to be a homosexual organization, and gay organizations admit that the only reason they distance themselves is because it would be politically detrimental.

RJ, Your argument is so

RJ,

Your argument is so stupid.

I see many many college age or recently out of college age men coaching high school girls sports teams.

Where's your concern there?  Where's your fear for those girls?  Why aren't you up in arms about that?

Furthermore, whether or not a person wants to have sex with someone under 18 has nothing to do with sexual orientation.  It has to do with that person and their level of creepiness.

You're just looking for excuses to justify your overwhelming hatred of gay people.  You must have a gay you hate in your family.  That's the only explanation for this much venom.

This thread is threatening to destroy the remaining shred of credibility you sort of had left.

Well the trolls have shown up

...and the mindless "you're a homophobe" chants have begun.

Speaking of stupid arguments, leon....comparing coaches with Scout leaders camping off in the woods?   Silly.

And..."Furthermore, whether or not a person wants to have sex with someone under 18 has nothing to do with sexual orientation.  It has to do with that person and their level of creepiness." 

Hahaha.  What a (not surprising) foolish thing to say. Do you really believe that?   Hahaha.

RJ, 1)  Could you please

RJ,

1)  Could you please explain how comparing coaches with Scout leaders is different?  When I played travel sports when I was younger, I went on many trips where it was just coaches and players.  That's no different from camping in the woods as far as I can tell.  So tell us why it's so different. 

2)  Yes I do believe that.  Could you please explain why it's foolish?

All you've done is attack me.  You haven't even attempted to make a rational argument against what I've said.  You do hate.  It's sad to watch.  The homophobe chants are out b/c you're showing that you hate gays.  People tend to call  you out for what you are and you're an irrational gay hater.

leon, you're always good for a chuckle

...with your attacking others and then whining that it's you who has been attacked.  It's the Hillary defense.  ;^>

Let's try again.  Show me where I have attacked you.   Show me where anything I've said is "homophobic" or "hate." 

"As far as you can tell" explains a lot.  In the first place, camping trips offer more opportunity, but since you've never (apparently) been in the Scouts you wouldn't know and are just making assumptions. 

In the second place, unlike youth sports, Scouts are a target for peds/homos.  Unlike youth sports, BSA has a major current problem with this, and they're dismissing Leaders at a record pace. 

(Of course, if you had read the thread, you'd know that.)

RJ,Do you ever use any

RJ,

Do you ever use any sort of evidence or do you just say the first thing that comes to mind?

1)  Camping trips do offer opportunity, but not necessarily more.  Especially considering that there is significantly less time spent camping than at practice/post-practice.

2)  Scouts is a target for peds?  Unlike Youth Sports?  Do you have any evidence for this?  What you'll need to prove this will be the number of peds that were involved in leading youth sports and the number of peds that were involved in leading boy scouts.  Find that stat and then you can make that argument.  Until then you're just making stuff up which is not really an effective form of debate. 

Happy hunting! haha. 

Unlike you, leon, I speak from experience

As a Scout Leader, I've been paying attention to the issue for many years.   I've been hearing and reading both the internal and public reports.

Other than your knee-jerk PC "feelings" what do you bring to the table?   

RJ, So again you have

RJ,

So again you have zero evidence to back up your claim.

As per usual.

Your previous post will be stricken from the record due to lack of material support.