Democratic LA Mayor's Mistress Heads Back to Work Reporting News

Photo of Ken Shepherd.

The Los Angeles Times reported Tuesday that Telemundo reporter and mayoral mistress Mirthala Salinas is heading back at work after a two-month suspension, albeit demoted to a less prominent job within the network:

Television newscaster Mirthala Salinas, who was suspended without pay for two months in August after her affair with Los Angeles Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa became public, is scheduled to return to work Monday. But she won't be taking up her old job as a fill-in anchor on evening newscasts for KVEA-TV Channel 52.

Instead, executives with the Spanish-language Telemundo network confirmed Monday that Salinas would be sent to the station's Inland Empire bureau in Riverside as a general assignment reporter, a notable fall for a one-time rising star who has become one of the most recognizable faces in local Spanish-language television.

Villaraigosa's Democratic party affiliation was left unmentioned in the September 25 story by Times reporters Duke Helfand and Meg James.

Also ignored was Salinas history as a bit of serial dater of local Democratic politicians. From my August 3 NewsBusters post:

The Telemundo reporter... apparently has a history of dating Southern California Democratic politicians:

Her affair with Villaraigosa was an open secret in KVEA's Burbank newsroom and in the mayor's office at City Hall. Salinas also had dated Assembly Speaker Fabian Nuñez (D-Los Angeles) when he was divorced — and before he remarried his wife — as well as former Los Angeles City Council President Alex Padilla, now a state senator.

For a comprehensive listing of NewsBusters stories on Mirthala Salinas, check here.

Photo featured above is by LAT's Robert Durell, via LATimes.com, and depicts Salinas interviewing Villaraigosa in the California State Capitol in August 2006.

—Ken Shepherd is Managing Editor of NewsBusters


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Singled Out

Let's see, NBC employes

  • Chris Matthews (Tip O'Neil aid)
  • Tim Russert (Moynihan aid)
  • Mika Brzezinski  (daughter of Zbignew Brzezinski)
  • Keith Olberman (my pick for moveon.org's next leader)

and they are worried about a reporter in their Spanish Language network getting too cozy with a politician?

 

Hi Allanf, It isn't just

Hi Allanf,

It isn't just that she was having an affair with the Mayor; it's that she was having an affair with the Mayor while reporting on the Mayor and while reporting that the Mayor's marriage was breaking up...because of her!  It was a clear breach of ethics and she should have been fired.

But you do bring up a good point - plenty of other reporters are in bed (although maybe not as literally as Mirthala) with politicians.

Dutch

True, but the network knew

True, but the network knew about the affair long before it became public knowledge.  Kind of like CBS knowing the journalistic fraud Dan Rather was routinely perpetrating.  In both cases, the networks ended up hanging their employees out to dry after being complicit in that which got them in trouble in the first place.  It's great to see Rather and Salinas get punished, but the networks don't suffer (and even if Rather gets CBS, only Rather will benefit for the network's suffering).  The correct thinking media should make more of an issue of Villaraigosa's double-dealing and his affiliation with the Clinton campaign.  But they won't.

I live in Los Angeles County

Not the city, thank G-d. What a hellhole its turned into in the last 30 years.

Salinas will be reporting news in the Inland Empire, which is basically the desert east of Los Angeles and filled with, ahem, illegals.

Too bad the Mecha mayor can't be as easily reassigned. I'd suggest Bakersfield.

"Her affair with

"Her affair with Villaraigosa was an open secret in KVEA's Burbank newsroom and in the mayor's office at City Hall. Salinas also had dated Assembly Speaker Fabian Nuñez (D-Los Angeles) when he was divorced — and before he remarried his wife — as well as former Los Angeles City Council President Alex Padilla, now a state senator."  What a dirty girl! I wonder if Hillary knows about her...

Nortonalec

"Her affair with

"Her affair with Villaraigosa was an open secret in KVEA's Burbank newsroom and in the mayor's office at City Hall. Salinas also had dated Assembly Speaker Fabian Nuñez (D-Los Angeles) when he was divorced — and before he remarried his wife — as well as former Los Angeles City Council President Alex Padilla, now a state senator."  What a dirty girl! I wonder if Hillary knows about her...

Nortonalec

I suspect locals like you can predict

From knowing that geographic area which Democrat politician she's likely to start humpin' next? ;) I foresee office-pools in competing newsrooms on this very subject! Hmph. I just returned from only-1-week of semi-vacation, so maybe I'm just jealous of her getting 2 months off for screwing (literally!) up on the job...
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

Ron Paul

is a Jew-hating bastard. I hope he drops dead.

Got any proof??

I'd really prefer that to even more invective...
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

Sarc, you don't get it, its

Sarc, you don't get it, its just like the libs and minorities.  Republicans think African Americans and other minorities can handle themselves (which they can) and don't need that 'extra help.'  Liberals, looking for SOMETHING to tear on Republicans for, come-a-runnin' saying that supporting the end of racial preference is racist because they DO need that extra help. 

 

I have plenty of Jewish friends, and trust me, if Israel was ever in immediate danger of losing a war, I would vote in spades to support them.  Yes they are being attacked and are the focus of much middle-eastern islamofacist violence, but they are more than capable of defending themselves.  However, much like the dems wanting something to rip on repubs for, the people who don't like Ron Paul for fear *gasp* that he could ever be right, will look to this as the same thing.

 

What Ron Paul says:

"Why are we over policing the borders of a friendly nation who's conflict we aren't directly a part of?"

 

What THEY say he says:

"Screw Israel, those money-grubbing, big-nosed, seinfield-loving, hollywood-owning ba$tards!"

 

Until people can keep their biases on a leash, this kind of misquoting will continue to happen.  I'm not worried though, its not like this stuff is anything new.  Been goin on for decades, even centuries in some political circles.

I hope folks will see the light

Plenty of actual issues exist to debate, aside from these mindless allegations of hate. It's odd to see that someone believes I'd support someone who hates any group, but all sorts of people exist in this world, and people are often rude online compared to how they are in person...
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

Whoa!!!

I was not rude to YOU at all. I had an opinion on the Jew-hating bastard Ron Paul and I stated it. Its clear you support him and his views. Its clear I don't. If that is offensive to YOU, I'm sorry, but I did not intend to be rude to YOU.

You have yet

To support that opinion.
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

see why ron's un-electable

see why ron's un-electable sarc:(?

its too bad...

So sorry, TM, but

0 facts != "un-electable." It's one bigoted, unsupported opinion, and I've tried here and repeatedly-failed to get him to factually-support it. Another swing and a miss! Keep trying, though!
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

False.

Let's just go with the final paragraph of your first link (I encourage a look at all the others, though!).

Mr. Speaker, There is nothing wrong with considering the fact that we
don't have to be involved in every single fight. That was the conclusion
that Ronald Reagan came to, and he was not an enemy of Israel. He
was a friend of Israel. But he concluded that that is a mess over
there. Let me just repeat those words that he used. He said, he
came to the conclusion, "The irrationality of Middle Eastern politics
forced us to rethink our policy there.'' I believe these words are
probably more valid now even than when they were written.

 

I think that says it pretty well. To disagree is not to hate, or else Ronald Reagan's own legacy has a little problem here...
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

Huh?

That quote begs the question. This is what he said:

It is very clear, reading this resolution objectively, that all the terrorists are on one side and all the victims and the innocents are on the other side. I find this unfair, particularly considering the significantly higher number of civilian casualties among Lebanese civilians.

That is an anti-Israel, anti-semitic lie. He is a liar.

Now, we can have a intelligent discourse on Ron Paul, but I won't waste my time if you don't want to be honest.

So enlighten me

What's the truth? Wasn't there a long occupation, with substantial casualties of all sorts, including US, until Reagan got us out?? It's not in our interest to get involved in all those fights, and occasionally our getting involved seems to help only the most extreme elements of both sides, when everyone's stated objective is always "peace." How is this honest?? We should learn from our Founders' warnings about this kind of entangling alliance, because it's too expensive to maintain, and it seems not to really help our few friends over there, considering the costs.
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

Until you address the issue

you are a waste of time.

Well, to say that

Well, to say that causalties among citizens, of any decent, is racist or anti-semetic is just retarded.  You can't say because he chooses to not run to the aid of ANY group it makes him racist.  That would be like saying Ghandi hated a racial group because he did not *fight* for them.  Well, DUH, he didn't fight for ANYONE.  Dr. Paul's stance is, until we are directly threatened, we should stay out of the issues and conflicts of others, even our allies until there is viable reason to jump in.  He has said at his rallies that, if Israel was not the military superior over there and was not able to 'take care of themselves' he would view the situation differently. 

 

His approach is not of a textbook isolationist, thats why anytime someone calls him that, he corrects them, politely no less even after constantly refered to as such, that he is NOT an isolationist, but a non-interventionalist.  He does not believe in us intervening as a policing force for the world.  As for the Mall cop comment, that perhaps was a tragic way of wording his sentiments, but show me one man (or woman) who has never said something in a way that came out wrong or was just not the correct way to get their point across and I'll show you a man who can walk on water.

What I'm saying is, he believes our soldiers are not prepared as well as they should be for this type of combat because it is difficult to successfully train an enemy that is among the citizenry.  That attack from shadows then just a quickly retreat back to them.  We can't go arresting every citizen in the wrong place at the wrong time, so there is the problem to which Dr. Paul's solution is to mind our own business.  IF and when they attack us again if we pull out, and I realize its very possible they will, THEN we *will* have more than valid reason to go back.  However, when we are constantly standing on their borders or even their front lawn with guns armed and pointed saying 'don't do anything stupid.' then of course they are going to be a bit more than miffed at us.  However, if we aren't there, and they still attack, then even the most crazy of left wingers will need to accept that they truely are a religion minority group who believes that facism and a 'convert or die' policy is the only way, and that these people must be stopped.

 

You can dislike Dr. Paul for many reasons, but please, save the tripe about him being anti-semetic and racist for those uninformed enough to buy your ticket at the door without researching themselves.  I understand he will never be liked by all and I respect that.  however, such lies as him being a racist anti-semetic because of his non-interventionalist policy is just rediculous as well as calling him such things are a lie and therefore I do *not* respect that.

The Cult of Personality knows no end

The whiny reactionary, Paul, did in fact call the Israeli government the largest lobby in Washington.  If you read any of the liks as I have, you would have come across that passage.  If that isn't anti-Semitic, I don't know what is. 

Besides, even if that had ANY basis in fact, I must ask: how effective can that lobby be?  Israel still occasionally asks for the release of Jonathan Pollard, yet the United States doesn't budge on that issue.  Why is that, if the Israeli government is such an effective lobby?

I find such comments to be quite anti-Semitic.  At the very least, a comment that idiotic that flies in the face of reality proves to me yet again why Ron Paul should not even be a dog-catcher.   

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

That is a bit strange of an

That is a bit strange of an assumption.  To point out that the nation of Israel has more 'pull' influentially than any other nation we are allied with is not anti-semetic, its pretty much fact.  Here's the deal, if someone is stereotyped to being a thief due to nationality or race, and they are CAUGHT stealing, calling them a thief would be neither racist or prejudicial in any sense.  Dr. Paul simply said that Israel has much more influence in our nation's decisions, especially in foreign policy, and he asks, with a nation so clearly the militaristic and developmentally superior in their region, why would they even NEED to rely on us?  Its an honest, very real question worth asking.  Its not to say we should not help our allies, but it is questionable to some as to why America seems to favor Israel in many situations, and while I personally believe we SHOULD support them, I don't nor would I EVER call someone anti-semetic for asking a valid question.

 

Example:

THIS is anti-semetic:

"All jews are money grubbing kikes that would rather be buried with their money and influence than ever have a christian take over their business, hell, they'd rather take their fortune to their graves than give it even to their own children!'

 

THIS is NOT anti semetic:

"As a nation largely defined as 'christian/catholic,' it begs the question, and I wonder myself, why we involve ourselves needlessly in the diplomatic conflicts of our jewish allies when they can clearly take care of themselves?"

Its not a matter even of saying 'well they aren't like us religiously, so screw em!  Its about the premise that this nation, for most cases and situations, can handle themselves.  Make no mistake what you read, I have jewish friends, and a few who actually have distant relatives (cousins, second cousins) who actually reside in Israel and my friend steve's cousin is an active part of their military.  He says while the 'summer war' they had did cause problems for the nation of Israel, that if it ever did escalate to a point in which war would progress from mere border skirmishes, Israel would ROLL over the Middle East and stop only when they wanted, had they been a nation of that kind, however, being much like America and not interested in conquest, their power seems tame because there was no need at the time to unleash full military capacity.

 

Like I said, if you hate Dr. Paul, or even just greatly dislike him, perfect.  However, anti-semetic he is not, if you choose to believe so then you do so on your own beliefs.  Beliefs that have yet to be supported by actual fact that the man is anything close to anti-semetic.

As with the left and O'Reilly

It's a lot easier intellectually to hurl an accusation of hate -- which ends intelligent debate, no matter how false -- than it is to debate actual ideas. It's amusing that both the left & the right are so-busy proving it today...
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

 Beliefs that have yet to

 Beliefs that have yet to be supported by actual fact that the man is anything close to anti-semetic.  Well, that is because Paul is your God, and you worship him the way North Koreans follow Kim-Jong Il and how the Turkmen worshipped Niyazov/Turkmenbashy. 

Saying that the biggest lobby in Washington is the Israeli government is as anti-Semitic as it gets.

But even setting that aside, if his statement were remotely true, then YOU can certainly try to answer the questions here, one of which you have already dodged in your bid to become sarcasmo's doppelgaenger.

1) Why is Jonathan Pollard still under lock and key even after repeated Israeli requests to turn him over to them?

2) Why has Bush, the latest in a long line, worked tirelessly to solve the Palestinian issue, and have been critical of some of Israel's tactics? 

3) Why has the United States worked to restrain Israel's activities since 1991, when it was attacked in the Gulf War?  

4) Why is our embassy still in Tel Aviv, and NOT in Jerusalem? 

...that Israel has much more influence in our nation's decisions, especially in foreign policy, and he asks, with a nation so clearly the militaristic and developmentally superior in their region, why would they even NEED to rely on us?  Its an honest, very real question worth asking.  For one thing, Paul is positively enraged that the United States would DARE defend itself by going on the offensive far from home.  He cannot figure out that by keeping the bad guys as far from our shores as possible, we are then free to live our lives with minimal interference.  I would suggest that he really needs to leave all military matters and foreign policy matters to the adults, and head back to the delivery room.  Or, I would ask him if he had a patient of his diagnosed with cancer: would he try to cure it as early as possible, or, would he rather send his patient home, saying "Don't worry about it!  You'll be fine.  I'll wait until the cancer spreads until I treat you, because it won't be a threat until then!"  Seeing what his "foreign policy" consists of, I'd say he'd do the latter. 

I may be wrong, but the last time I checked, the Israelis PAID us for everything the IDF has, in terms of American equipment.  They plunged quite a few shekels into our economy buying our F-15s and F-16s, among other equipment.  That wasn't given to them.  Also, for some reason, I recall no defense treaties with them.  They fall into the EUCOM area of responsibility, not CENTCOM, yet they are not a member of NATO or the OSCE.  While we did briefly send units over there of Patriot missile batteries, to my knowledge no American units short of Marine embassy guards can be found in Israel.  Yep, Israel is sure draining our meager treasury, aren't they? 

Oh, and there is the matter of Nickel Grass, but that was 34 years ago. 

Again, I view them as a modern-day West Berlin.  Israel is an island of sanity in a sea of insanity.  We should back them 100% on that basis alone. 

By the way, "non-interventionism" was tried once, from 1918-1941.  It didn't work out too well.  Just swing by Pearl Harbor to see where hiding your head in the sand from the rest of the world gets you. 

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

Admittedly, some of these

Admittedly, some of these issues you bring up I am not completely 100% familiar with, I will definately try and research some of it today at lunch, again, I am not some closed-minded individual who worships anyone, so, again, save the ASSumptions for others who have lived up to them.  You claiming Ron Paul's supporters are somehow in worship of the man is as equally absurd if not moreso than to say that the only reason he HAS detractors is because conservatives that rally against him can't stand the idea of someone that isn't conservative across the board, or, that he is simply hurting the chances of one of YOUR idols (Rudy, Thompson) to get elected.  That said, I also like Thompson and until I lost faith in Rudy recently, he was my initial choice about 6 months ago.

 

Anyways, my point was, Ron Paul, right or wrong in his choice to believe we shouldn't be backing Israel to the degree we are, has NOTHING to do with anti-semitism.  Again, let me repeat this, he doesn't see the logic in getting involved in conflicts that are none of our business.  It is because...

A: its not really a direct concern of ours until we MADE it our business

B: He believes the nation is strong enough to handle itself, not that 'oh they are dirty jews so they don't deserve our help.' 

 

Anti-semitism would be the refusal of aid due to their religion or religious leanings.  I admit that I was unfamiliar with some issues and examples you presented and WILL look them up.  And as we know, admitting mistakes or even lack of knowledge is rare here from any side of the argument.  That said, I still have yet to hear a reason as to HOW his stance is at all anti-semetic.  His reason for wanting a re-evaluation of how much support we give to Israel boils down to two things. 

#1: its money, AMERICAN money, spent on troops, supplies, and support for this nation.  I'm aware they have largely invested in our military, but they give us funds, we give them weaponry and other supplies.  That isnt the problem.  Ron Paul is unhappy that we are ALSO funnelling our own funds over there to a degree perhaps not necessary as, yes, it IS important we defend Israel, but it is NOT our job to fight their battles FOR them and the money spent on such acts could be better allocated within our own nation, as Ron Paul believes.  Also, why spend so much money protecting a nation who doesn't really need it?  During the summer war we kept our place, but had the fighting EVER been close to threatening the overall state of Israel, not even Ron Paul would just sit idly.

 #2: It is our business to 'take care of our own' but it is NOT our job to enter alliances to the effect of the alliances that caused the two world wars.  Again, he won't just sit back and watch Israel ever be taken or erradicated, but he also doesn't believe its our place to step in anytime someone shoves Israel and on that account, I agree.  It involves us as a nation in a fight that was not necessarily ours to begin with, and when Israel can hold its own without us, all we are doing is wasting our money and further proving to the crazies over there that America must constantly display its world superior military powers.

 

Show me how any of that boils down to Ron Paul being anti-semetic.  If Israel were made up of christians, catholics, or any other religion, his stance would not be ANY different. So again, you posed a question to me I was not equipped to answer, I will go look into these cases and perhaps even learn something, maybe even that you have a point, however, in turn, I ask YOU a question.

How is not wanting to intervene in a nation's smaller affairs and spats because it saves us money and they can handle themselves equate to being anti-semetic?  If you believe that, then I assume you are a supporter of affirmative action.  Afterall, minorities are fine without the help, but if we don't spend money and effort on them because they are different from the majority, we MUST be racist.

 

And as for the cancer comment that is so off base and I pray you know it and were simply looking to trap me by assuming I couldn't see the glaring differences.  Cancer can be treated.  The situation over there is not as simple.  Actually, a BETTER analogy would be, after chemo treatment and someone's cancer is in remission, would you INSIST they keep on chemo just in case?

Of COURSE not.  The body does not react well to such harsh treatments.  Much like the middle east, our presence as a military power just further hurts our already less than amicable relations with alot of the area.  Same with chemo, the more you are there, the more the chemo is, the more likely the area, much like the body with chemo, will become unstable.

So someone who is in remission is much like Israel over there currently.  They CAN survive it, there is no nation over there that can even come close to militarily matching Israel.  Much like when cancer is in remission, the body no longer needs the aggressive chemo to survive.  Now, you would need check ups, which is why I am all for, as is Dr. Paul, keeping am amicable relationship with Israel and working with them just like we do now, just not getting quite so involved with the aggression they face from other nations, which, ideally, is none of our damn business. 

Long story short, it comes down to money.  Dr. Paul feels spending funds on a military presence in a nation perfectly capable of handling themselves is not financially feasible nor intelligent.  I tend to agree.  Yet I am ANYTHING but an anti-semite.

So much simplistic thinking to address, so little time...

 

You claiming Ron Paul's supporters are somehow in worship of the man is as equally absurd if not moreso than to say that the only reason he HAS detractors is because conservatives that rally against him can't stand the idea of someone that isn't conservative across the board, or, that he is simply hurting the chances of one of YOUR idols (Rudy, Thompson) to get elected. Considering the behavior of the Paul supporters I have met online and in person, I stand by my mockery of them by comparing them to supporters of a personality cult. I would not be the least bit surprised if I were to walk into their homes and find 10X16 portraits of him on every wall of their houses, they way they talk of him. By the way, when have I mentioned support of Giuliani or Thompson? Granted, I like some of what they have to say, but it’s not enough to get me to vote for them. I probably won’t make up my mind until I get to the polling place. But I can assure you, I won’t be voting for a whiny reactionary flake like Paul who thinks it would be GREAT if Americans sat around like sheep waiting eagerly to be slaughtered...and nor will I vote in the Democratic primary.

Anyways, my point was, Ron Paul, right or wrong in his choice to believe we shouldn't be backing Israel to the degree we are, has NOTHING to do with anti-semitism. Again, let me repeat this, he doesn't see the logic in getting involved in conflicts that are none of our business. And even if he wasn’t making anti-Semitic statements (I eagerly await your answers to my questions as it is well past lunch as I type this), he is still showing extremely dangerous naivete. Japan’s forging a “Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere” wasn’t our business either, until 7 December 1941. Then it BECAME our business. And that is the thing both you and Paul REFUSE to see. Problems that may not seem like they effect us in the beginning wind up to become very big issues later that are VERY much our business later. History demonstrates this time and again. Hence my desire to remain vigilant and on the offensive. You can be a sheep all you want. I prefer to be a wolf. With VERY sharp teeth and an attitude problem towards those who wish to screw around. B: He believes the nation is strong enough to handle itself, not that 'oh they are dirty jews so they don't deserve our help.' Indeed, our government agrees. Last time I checked, we do not station our troops there outside Marine guards. Also, can you find for me a defense treaty we have penned with Israel? We haven’t run an operation like Nickel Grass in 34 years, and I would submit the main reason we ran that op was because it was more out of fear of Soviet intervention than anything else. Later that month, Nixon put the nuclear triad on worldwide alert after the Soviets made some noise about intervening in the Middle East as the Arabs started getting their a$$es kicked.  All we do is sell them the weaponry for them to defend THEMSELVES, and back them politically.  They do the rest.

Ron Paul is unhappy that we are ALSO funnelling our own funds over there to a degree perhaps not necessary as, yes, it IS important we defend Israel, but it is NOT our job to fight their battles FOR them and the money spent on such acts could be better allocated within our own nation, as Ron Paul believes and that is because Ron Paul is, when it comes to foreign policy, is a blithering f*!#ing idiot. The idea is to spend a little to keep the battles and threats far from our shores, instead of spending a LOT of money later when it eventually HITS our shores (and along our way screws up the economy). He obviously learned nothing from Pearl Harbor. Also, why spend so much money protecting a nation who doesn't really need it? Where is all of this money you claim is being spent on Israel? None of our troops are stationed there outside Marine guards (I can’t imagine anything else other than MAYBE a handful of other assorted troops being there briefly, or sailors on shore leave). And, once again, the State of Israel spend vast amounts of shekels here on weaponry. Check out their aircraft inventory sometime. Where do you think most of those planes come from?During the summer war we kept our place, but had the fighting EVER been close to threatening the overall state of Israel, not even Ron Paul would just sit idly. If Ron Paul would not sit idly in that case, he would then contradict himself.

It is our business to 'take care of our own' but it is NOT our job to enter alliances to the effect of the alliances that caused the two world wars. I know that it is your reactionary dream to wake up in a 1797 America where it was forced to concentrate on its internal development, but those days are GONE. You are going to have to accept that reality. Or, perhaps you want America to be as whiny and pathetic as possible, with citizens WAITING to be slaughtered? I sure would love to know what alliance the United States entered in either of the world wars, and which of the alliances has caused a war. Did you know, for instance, that the US-Japan alliance only costs the United States the amount to pay our troops there, and their equipment? The Japanese pay for the bases our troops use. Besides, the alliances the United States has entered has had the abiding effect of KEEPING THE PEACE by the threat of American intervention, and under that umbrella, people have prospered on both sides of the Atlantic and Pacific. When people don’t fight, they tend to trade. The money we have spent on that is but a drop in the bucket compared to the trade that has been engendered.

Show me how any of that boils down to Ron Paul being anti-semetic. Do I need to put away my 8-color box of crayons in favor of a box of FOUR? I find Paul’s statement about the Israeli government being the biggest lobby in Washington both factually inaccurate AND anti-Semitic. Outside of Israel, his idea of making America as whiny and as powerless as possible by placing it on the permanent defensive, is nothing short of naive at best and utterly idiotic at worst.

How is not wanting to intervene in a nation's smaller affairs and spats because it saves us money and they can handle themselves equate to being anti-semetic? Again, wanting to render America as whiny and pathetic a nation as possible, and inviting its citizens to be slaughtered, all in the name of “SAVING MONEY!!!”, is dangerously naive at best and utterly idiotic at worst. I would prefer the terrorists get killed in Baghdad, not after killing my countrymen in Boston. I would prefer the Iranians be dealt with in Iran, not after they sail a nuke up the Houston Ship Channel to its turning basin. Again, using two crayons this time...what Ron Paul said about ISRAEL is anti-Semitic; his isolationist, ignore-the-Big-Bad-World-and-it-will -Just-Go-Away-I-Hope approach to foreign policy is naive at best and idiotic at worst.

And as for the cancer comment that is so off base and I pray you know it and were simply looking to trap me by assuming I couldn't see the glaring differences. Cancer can be treated. The situation over there is not as simple. And neither is cancer. Actually, a BETTER analogy would be, after chemo treatment and someone's cancer is in remission, would you INSIST they keep on chemo just in case? YOU would send them home with a plate of cookies and a glass of cold milk, insist they never need see a doctor again, and never to worry about it. Besides, cancer treatment COSTS MONEY. Isn’t the whole purpose of life to SAVE MONEY??? I, on the other hand, would want to watch and see if the cancer ever comes back so it could be immediately snuffed out, hopefully without the use of chemo or radiation treatment.

So someone who is in remission is much like Israel over there currently. They CAN survive it, there is no nation over there that can even come close to militarily matching Israel. I suggest you read up on the Yom Kippur War. If you are doing research as you say, you are already without even knowing it.

just not getting quite so involved with the aggression they face from other nations, which, ideally, is none of our damn business. Ideally is the key word, isn’t it? The world isn’t built on happy idealism. If I wanted happy, rose-colored glass idealism, I’d vote Democratic, not for flakes like Paul.

 

Long story short, it comes down to money. And this is why I prefer to privatize Social Security and Medicaid, and institute a “flat tax” of 17% across the board with zero deductions or breaks. Eviscerating the Defense Department and rendering the United States unable to do ANYTHING in its interests except whimper and whine only COSTS more money in the long run. Dr. Paul feels spending funds on a military presence in a nation perfectly capable of handling themselves is not financially feasible nor intelligent. The doctor needs to stick to what he knows, meaning, he needs to go back to the delivery room and stay there, and leave the foreign policy and defense of the United States to the grownups.. Again, your homework assignment is to show me how much money we spend on Israel’s defense.  

I leave you with my tagline.  That is bound to make both you and Paul extremely angry.

Qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.

Again, I see no reason to

Again, I see no reason to be so damn smug.  Perhaps you ARE correct.  However, what you supply in facts, you lack in conversational tact.  I did check up on that stuff you mentioned and I don't see either one (Bush's caution to Israel to use a less heavy handed approach and the Israeli spy case) as necessarily detracting that Israel holds alot of influence over here in our decisions in foreign policy.  That said, I never wholly agreed that Israel is the 'biggest lobby in DC.'  I do agree however, that we do support them heavily and it would explain alot of added aggression we recieve from such ACTUAL anti-semites such as that Iranian madman, ahmedinigaboodle.  In the case of the spy, the man would probably got a much more lenient sentence, but from the moment he initially disclosed the sensitive documents to the Israeli government all the way up to when he knowingly disclosed sensitive case info to the public, which was part of his agreement, NOT to share such info, only THEN was he given such an awful statement.  As for not turning him over, I'm sorry, he spied on us, and we caught him.  While if it IS true the info was witheld for no reason and it was as imperative to Israeli defense as they claimed, then I disagree that he is charged as a criminal and there should be research in WHY we didn't release it, I do believe, facts as they are now, he got caught spying on us in OUR country.  He's therefore OUR prisoner.  As for Bush cautioning Israel during the 'summer war' I don't blame him.  I could empathize with the anger the Israelis felt as rockets were launched on their civilians from other civilian masses on the other side of the border, but I don't condone the swift, heavy-handed and tragic handling of the counterattack.  I know these insurgents were among the citizenry, but to blanket bomb even a strategic area is still a bit wrong to me.  Israel has a ground presence and while it would endanger the troops, its bound to cause much less casualties in theory than simply bombing the hell out of the citizenry where they believe large concentrations of the insurgents were located.  So, in turn, I agree with Bush's cautioning of their tactics.

 

In closing, I am not saying you are wrong, what I am saying is to feel so strongly that your opinion is the end all be all is enough to put most people off enough to write you out as equally a 'radical loon.'  I do not.  I will look at this yom kuppur war you speak of.  I am believe it or not, open to the fact that my opinions may not turn out to be the best case and even sometimes horridly wrong.  I only ask that #1 you be a little less snide in your revelry in this assumed 'victory' (we were fighting?  There's a winner in this conversation?) and that #2 you provide more concrete evidence that Ron Paul is an anti-semite if you are going to claim such things.


Again, as I said, whether you believe his stance on Israel is right or wrong even, there is no evidence that his feelings are BASED on the fact that Israel is a Jewish state.  That is like saying if I think an all black football team is overrated I MUST be racist.  Ron paul wants the influence of Israel to be cut because he believes (not neccessarily what I believe) that to be influenced by ANY nation is dangerous.  Not because 'we shouldn't back the Jews.'  If he said that, it'd be anti-semetic.  However, until you can prove that the main motivation for Ron Paul's unhappiness with our relations with Israel is based PURELY on his distaste for an alliance with a Jewish nation, then your initial point remains debateable and in most circles, completely unfounded.  Not an attack either, I'm just trying to be as equally literal as many else here when someone makes such an outlandish statement.

The new West Berlin

Never mind, my dear reactionary, that the quote on "entangling alliances" was made when the United States essentially just got its independence and couldn't even do all that much to stop impressment on the high seas by the Brits, and attacks on its shipping and trade by BOTH France and Britain. Back in the 1790s, the United States was right to focus squarely on its internal self-development.  Reactionaries like yourself simply cannot stand the fact that it is NOT the 1790s anymore. 

 Supporting Israel, in my mind, is exactly like supporting West Berlin, which doubtless you would have HAPPILY handed over to the Soviets, rather than initiate operations like Vittles which eventually did MUCH to ensure America's freedom. (And to me, Nickel Grass was very much the modern-day Vittles.)

Go Israel!  Go Israel!  Go Israel!  (An island of democracy in a sea of insanity)

Speaking of actuall issues,

Speaking of actuall issues, Sorry Sarc, but Ron Paul wants to takes us out of NATO.

Glad to speak about 'em

And there's nothing to be sorry about -- NATO has served its purpose. Hell, the guy also thinks we don't need to be protecting Korea fifty years after the Korean War, and the Koreans seem to agree with that idea.

The US military can't be the world's police force forever, because the Chinese & Saudis can't finance such irresponsible use of them forever. The policy of ignoring the Founding Fathers, as we've done, forecloses options when the military is actually-needed by needlessly wearing down our military. That may be why Dr. Paul got the most contributions from military folks last time, much to the chagrin of many here.
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

While it might actually be

While it might actually be a good thing for us to leave Korea, I'm not so sure about leaving NATO.

I know Washington was against "entangling alliances" and indeed, Big Mistake I was a chain reaction of alliances setting nations at war. How else can the Murder of one of Austia-Hungary's Elite by a Serb lead to England being at war with Germany. Crazy.

On the other hand, NATO has helped keep Europe free . . . and the Russian Bear is starting to growl again.

They sell gas to those people now.

Why would they attack them?? Of all nations set to be rich due to resources, it's the old USSR. I can't imagine them wanting war instead, they've tasted the McDonalds...
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

Sarc - sorry for the late response.

Commerce is a good thing, but IIRC, France & Germany were each others' bigest trading parter right before Big Mistake I & Big Mistake II

Barbarossa

Soviet trains carrying goods to the Nazis were still heading towards Germany even during the opening hours of Operation Barbarossa...

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

Pay attention

This is because you simply do not pay attention to anything that doesn't feed your isolationist leanings.  They interfered in the Ukrainian elections, quite blatantly, in November 2004, and paid for it with the Orange Revolution (though Ukraine hasn't been quite stable as far as governments go since then).  To force the Ukrainians to pay higher prices for natural gas, they did what most countries do...they simply cut off supplies (and have made Europeans nervous, as they are extremely reliant on Russian oil and gas imports) and blackmailed the Ukraine into giving them a better deal in the dead of winter.  The have closed the border with Georgia due to petty disagreements, and flooded Estonia with cyber-attacks (a NATO member!!!) after the Estonian government committed that egregious crime of removing hated Soviet war monuments. 

Russia is a former great power that, like France, thinks it still has game, and acts accordingly.  In so doing, it has raised many an eyebrow in European capitals, and in Brussels.  Finally, it is also a member of the SCO.  That just might evolve into a modern-day Warsaw Treaty Organization, so it is something to keep an eye on.

(Maybe you should ask the good doctor if he would send a patient home who has been diagnosed with cancer, telling her "You have NOTHING to worry about!  I'll only start treatment when the cancer spreads, because it won't REALLY be a threat to your health until then!!!")  

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

Stick to what you know, and it sure isn't Korea

 Hell, the guy also thinks we don't need to be protecting Korea fifty years after the Korean War, and the Koreans seem to agree with that idea.  Really?  I realize you are the smartest individual on this board, the SUPREME EXPERT on all, but your comment may come as a shock to many Koreans.  Their leading presidential candidate (they have an election this year) has made it plain that he considers good U.S. relations a priority, and is not interested in seeing additional troops leave Korea.  (From what I read he seems a bit concerned about China.) Quite a few Koreans were upset when we announced plans to shrink our force there by a few thousand or so.  Sure, there were protests there opposing the expansion of some U.S. facilities, but they were countered by anti-anti-expansion protests in areas I was quite familiar with.  

Say what you want, but be advised that when I was first posting on here, I was living there at the time, and I have spent a year there.  Also, while living there I got to travel extensively in the country, from rural areas to major cities.  Besides, if I was so hated as an American (and quite obviously by all appearances, even in civilian clothing, a servicemember), then can you explain the fact that 99.99999999% of all Koreans I encountered there were some of the friendliest people I have ever met in my travels? 

You need to wake up, my dear reactionary.  This isn't the 1790s.  Britain is not impressing our sailors, France isn't raiding our shipping, and if they did, we have a Navy to deal with them...no thanks to you or your God, Paul.   

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

I swear, I'll never

I swear, I'll never understand why insults, no matter how tame, are ever necessary in debate, but I digress.

 Unsane, I agree, living there, you have alot of views that hold more weight than say someone like myself who has never been.  That said however, I have a friend, a staunch conservative no less, who had a similar experience with the level of friendliness from the locals (even met a few cool people he still writes to) but he did mention that many of them, while not upset, also felt that American troops were not needed over there, at least not in the numbers that currently are deployed over there.  It is true thatNK will always be a threat to the world so long as loons like Kim Jong Il are in power and communism reigns supreme, however, my friend had mentioned to me that they also felt that it wasn't such a threat that they needed US soldiers there.  That said, most he claimed were indifferent to the troops presence but that they were not necessary.  So, again, I guess experiences will differ.  That said, I still believe that Sarc is indeed well versed in these issues, and while he is strong and passionate in his opinion, I am pretty sure he doesn't try to present himself as the 'all-knowing sage' of NewsBusters.  It may come off like that at times, then again, so does telling someone they know nothing of a nation when you do not know for sure if they do or not ;)

Just a thought

he doesn't try to present himself as the 'all-knowing sage'

heeheehee!   Good one, Binx...

The funny thing

Is that I'm admonished to read history by someone so-unfamiliar with recent history (apparently, Korea's leadership constitutes that tiny percentage!).
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

Counterpoint. Read and Weep.

Yet, when forces there were recently reduced by 13,000, what was the reaction?

Much crying and gnashing of teeth. Also, your link cannot dismiss, as badly as you want it to, what I saw: pro-American banners hung in the town nearest where I lived. 

Keep going, sarc.  You recently read a story online.  I can link The Economist just as well and tell you about their Right-leaning candidate.  Oh, yes, and it still doesn't change the fact that I have LIVED there until quite recently and have much experience upon which to draw.  Besides, who says that your link isn't biased towards Left-wing parties such as the ruling Uri party?  (That's right, source evaluation is beneath you.)

Wake up, sarc.  This isn't 1797. 

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

Hem and haw as you might

You're not addressing the point made by the President of Korea in the link, which is that they want an end to that war. I don't deny that some of them also want the financial benefits that come from US taxpayers taking up their own defense obligtions despite the fact that they're able to manufacture stuff like M16s and cars, but that's merely part of my point, which you have yet to address in your flurry of self-congratulation. If they're such good allies, how come they did that to George Bush when he visited? I like the "interpreter did it" excuse best, but I'm interested in the others, too.
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

Korea

If they are such crappy allies and hate us that much, then why was I constantly stopped in downtown Seoul for English practice by Korean students?  sarc, it was not a secret I was military, not with my haircut and shave.  It was an open secret everywhere I went, just on observation.  I suppose that could also have something to do with my efforts to put my best foot forward personally towards the Koreans, as it was their home and I was their guest, but I suspect something more was at work. 

Additionally, why have they sent troops to Iraq if they are that horrible an ally? 

 I don't deny that some of them also want the financial benefits that come from US taxpayers taking up their own defense obligtions despite the fact that they're able to manufacture stuff like M16s and cars, and they have, IIRC, the 11th largest economy in the world.  So what?  Besides, you make it sound like they do NOTHING for their own defense.  (Perhaps you really despise them because their drug policy makes ours look lax, but anyways...)  They have a 600,000 man army, and from everything I have seen they are every bit the professionals the United States is.  They also have a draft...every able-bodied male is obliged to spend two-four years in the military.  So much for them milking it from the United States.  (But, in your happy little world of utter simplicity, we are supposed to sit around like sheep and get slaughtered, and then REFUSE to do ANYTHING in our defense until a war is declared.  If only Reality worked that way.  But then, your problem isn't your extreme idealism.  It is the fact that you CANNOT understand why EVERYONE on the planet does NOT WANT TO BE EXACTLY AND PRECISELY LIKE YOU.) 

And for ALL of their manufacturing prowess that you whine about like a protectionist (yes, I know you are a free-trader), they STILL cannot manufacture certain items..like many of the planes that they fly in the ROKAF, that they in fact buy from US. 

And you are STILL missing my point.  Quote the current President of Korea ALL you want, but he faces a very tough election campaign from a candidate who values having the United States in his corner.  Sure, we ALL want an end to the war there - who doesn't? - but you are at that point arguing just like the Leftists argue on Iraq.  There were many times I was in my dorm, missing home, and getting a hankerin' for some barbecue, some Tex-Mex, some Italian grub...but I had a job to do, and so did the rest of the troops there, and we were going to do the job, just as my father did before me. 

I realize that all of this intereferes with your fantasy of waking up tomorrow morning to 1797, but it's on you to wake up to reality, not me (having fully embraced it, I have done my part).  By the way, seeing as you LOVE the 1790s so much...if you were a king for a day, how much money would the Secretary of State be traveling with in order to bribe diplomats? 

P.S.  Self-congratulation?  You, crying about MY "self-congratulation"?  I sure would love to see my "self-congratulation"...all the more ironic, as that accusation is lofted by one who does virtually NOTHING BUT self-congratulation ("I [sarcasmo] am always right, etc.")

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

Korea

binxly, you simply have not been paying enough attention.  sarcasmo consistently presents himself as Mr. Knowitall on here.

Most recently, he crowed that he knew more about the military and the warrior ethos than two military officers (BD and myself) because he studies history and plays chess.  And, for one who knows so much about Korea, he sure burned many comments asking me questions about the place, and has PMed me on occasion regarding Korea.  That doesn't sound like one who is versed on the nation. 

Oh yes, and heaven help you if you dare disagree with sarc in the slightest.  The you get a charming tirade of "you are full of crap/BS as usual", "Failed highschool debate again" (he likes to call out others for grammar yet many times cannot be bothered to find the space bar), "I am always right on (fill in the blank)", and so on.  If his ego weren't so massive, he might be an enjoyable conversationalist.  But he chooses of his own freewill to behave like a teenager here in a room full of adults.  I find it very disappointing. 

Again, for all of your commentary on what your friend who told you what Koreans want, the fact remains that anytime we REALLY pull troops out, they do what everyone else does: cry and howl for us NOT to leave.  Not to mention that the Koreans have every opportunity as a parliamentary democracy to vote in a government/president who can tell us to get out at any time.  The ruling Uri party has come the closest to telling the United States to take a hike, yet they have not gone full-board and done so.  In fact, for their failings at adequately dealing with the North Korean threat (admittedly among other issues), it looks like a more Right-leaning President is about to be elected there, and he has made it plain he wishes the United States to remain in Korea.  The Korean electorate has a golden opportunity here to throw out the American presence, yet strangely, they are not (apparently) doing that.  Why is this?   

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

Perhaps you are correct, I

Perhaps you are correct, I mean with passionate discussion and debate, when one is strongly rooted in their viewpoint, which thankfully is supported strongly by a solid base of facts on both sides it seems, the tone can sometimes be taken to an 'I know more than you do' sense.  I guess sometimes sarc may indeed be asking for a little more 'bite' in a response by being equally forward and aggressive with his talking points and views, but I just think sometimes the answer perhaps is a combination of both.  I mean look at America.  In some places, flags are literally burned and the military socially spurned at rallies as being facist footsoldiers of the 'neo-con nazis.'  Yet in other areas, you'll see military, air force, marines, etc stickers, flags, and rallies and any sentiments expressed about our armed forces that is anything but 110% supportive, you'll be greeted with a swift knuckle sandwhich :-P

Point being, I do believe MANY South Koreans do want us there still.  The ones who 'don't' don't exactly respond to us negatively, but just think us being their isn't exactly necessary.  Again, like all other issues that matter in the world, opinions and options vary.  The main reason people like Sarc and Dr. Paul address these issues though, is that we are spending money to stand around waiting for or preventing something from happening.  The thing we should be talking to SK about is the likelihood of anything actually happening and the amount of presence, if any, that is needed to be prepared for such events.

 

I think it's funny

That "Unsane," of all people here, would compare anyone else to a teenager...Pot, meet kettle!
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

What a laugh!

Why you are so willing and eager to shove your foot in your mouth is beyond me:

I'm not the one who:

1) Loves to declare "I'm always right", "I'm right" , "I'm right on this issue" ,etc...

2) Lashes out and explodes at ANYONE who disagrees with me in the slightest ("You're full of crap/BS as usual", "Failed ninth grade debate again!!!"  "ZERO CONTENT", etc.)

3) Has zero self-control when it comes to commenting on women.  (Hell, I gush over eye candy on this board like anyone else, but at least I keep it cultured and gentlemanly...)  This is a major indicator of your extreme immaturity.

4) Cannot understand why rules exist or why others would want them

5) Cannot understand why everyone on earth does not want to be exactly like me or why they aren't exactly like me already.

6) Blasts people for grammatical errors while committing them

7) Accuses others of various acts ("You worship theholydrugwar!") while whining when the tables turn ("You have no idea who I worship!") 

8) Gets on people for whining while whining

9) NEVER EVER accepts personal responsibility for failings, whether personal (not getting elected as a Libertarian; why, that's because of unfair ballot-access laws, not because of ME!!!)  or political (if it weren't for the world conspiring against the Libertarians with unfair election laws, everyone would be voting Libertarian!!!  But no...)

10) Loves to claim expertise where I have none (BD, Unsane, you have no idea what you are talkig about!  I know all about the military; I play chess and read history!!!)

11) Falls for countless conspiracy theories (those evil CFR-controlled major parties!!!!) 

Nope!  That is ALL YOU, sarc, and that puts me light years ahead of you in the maturity department.  Don't like it?  Tough. Deal with it.  As you yourself would say. 

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

Binx, your justification of sarky's known aggressiveness

is a hoot.   "I guess sometimes sarc may indeed be asking for a little more 'bite' in a response by being equally forward and aggressive with his talking points and views..."

I'm gonna use that "asking for more bite" line.   ;^>

RJ's being

As funny as "Unsane" today. But adding nothing of substance with a total focus on ad hominem instead -- how strange! This must be a new tactic! ;)
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

mea culpa, sarky

Clearly, I shouldn't have posted a specific response to a specific comment made by Binx.  And, clearly, I must have been incorrect when I said you're known for being aggressive.   ;^>

I'd say I'm known for

Treating people with the respect they deserve, which doesn't always equate to the respect they seem to want...
JMR

Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.

Of course, sarky

Your self-image is absolutely right......."as usual."    ;^>

Is it really much different

Is it really much different from Sean Hannity or Glenn Beck having closed-door meetings with the White House? In either case you have to assume that all objectivity is lost and these folks are not credible.

Are you serious???

I didn't think anyone can be that intellectually dishonest.

There is a HUGE difference.

Yes I am serious

Obviously Glenn Beck is not sleeping with the president, but I stand behind my comment. It is not "intellectually dishonest" (apparently your favorite phrase) to assume that a pundit with face-to-face contact with the president is getting a "special" bucket of water to carry.

Oh brother, what a retarded

Oh brother, what a retarded moonbat you are. So Glenn Beck and others are getting marching orders and talking points and other "inside info" from the White House. Riiight. 

And you are still being dishonest. These are claims without facts.

Furthermore, the issue IS that she was banging the mayor. Do you think there would be special favors for her if she wasn't?

You should be posting on Daily Koz or HuffPo. That's more your speed.

Glenn Beck doesn't carry any

Glenn Beck doesn't carry any water for Bush, try again.

Yes.  Hannity & Glenn Beck

Yes.  Hannity & Glenn Beck are news opinion shows...their appearance at the White House would be akin to MorOn.org or Daily Kos going to Hillary and her Democrat ilk.  This is more akin to Dan Rather ("straight" newsman) going to bed with Bill Clinton, then reporting on him.  I don't expect you to be honest enough to acknowledge that distinction, however.

Bereft of ideas

Chidi, just curious, do you ever have any actual ideas of your own, or do you just like to whine and bitch endlessly about other people? 

Res tantum valet quantum vendi potest.

Just another liberal female advancing like they do

How does one think Hillary Clinton got to where she is now? How do you think all the MSM women on television got their jobs?

Answer: Hillary married into a ride going somewhere and all of these cuties showed up at a balding manager's office in a short skirt, pretty smile and promising eyes in Minneapolis and started climbing the corporate ladder.

Liberals always like to scorn the casting couch, but they are all using it.........because when is the last time you saw a 300 pound plumper on any news program?

 

*HIC IACET ARTORIVS REX QVONDAM REXQVE FVTVRVS

Jeanie Moos on CNN today,

Jeanie Moos on CNN today, yesterday, etc....

Candy Crowley, Lisa Myers...

Candy Crowley, Lisa Myers...

She is a liberal...of

She is a liberal...of course she still has a job...

....so does the Mayor...another leftist.

Would we expect anything less?