After discussing the British woman in Sudan charged for naming a class teddy bear Muhammad on Friday’s "View," with no outrage directed towards the Sudanese government, the ladies again discussed the topic. Barbara Walters inquired to the panel what would happen if someone named a teddy bear Jesus in the United States.
Unlike Rosie O’Donnell, who exclaimed "radical Christianity is just as threatening as radical Islam," Joy Behar, to her credit, said "Christians in this country would not be as uptight about it." Later she added "in the Sudan is that it’s, it’s state sanctioned there. Here it would just be an uproar from certain people." [Video embedded below the fold, courtesy of user pundital on YouTube]
The transcript of the conversation is below.
WHOOPI GOLDBERG: Now Sherri, one of the things we wanted to do was to mention something that happened that we talked about several days ago.
SHERRI SHEPHERD: Right, we had talked about Gillian Gibbons, who was the British teacher who let her children at the school name a teddy bear Muhammad. And we were talking about whether she was going to-
JOY BEHAR: In the Sudan.
SHEPHERD: In the Sudan and whether she should get the lashes or not-
BEHAR: Which is a Muslim country.
SHEPHERD: In the Muslim country, and she’s been pardoned, so she will not get lashes, she will not get-
[applause]
BEHAR: She was about to go to jail also.
SHEPHERD: She was going to jail too.
BARBARA WALTERS: But, you know, we were, we were talking here, and, and I said well, I wonder that if in a public school here, a school teacher allowed, not allowed, but said that the children could name the teddy bear Jesus, would there be any reaction? And you-
GOLDBERG: Only in a public school.
SHEPHERD: I think there would be a reaction.
BEHAR: Well, that’s interesting.
WALTERS: A public school, you said- say what you said.
BEHAR: I would think that in a Catholic school, they would-
WALTERS: No, in a public school, not a Catholic school
BEHAR: I think they probably would object to it because-
WALTERS: You said no, earlier you said no.
BEHAR: Well, first I thought that most Christians in this country would not be uptight about it.
GOLDBERG: I would think that they would be.
SHEPHERD: I would think that they would be very-
BEHAR: There are groups in the public schools who may object to the fact that you’re giving preferential treatment to the teddy bear.
GOLDBERG: Yeah, but if it’s the child’s teddy bear, what difference does it make if-
WALTERS: See I do, but you see-
GOLDBERG: Wait! Wait!
WALTERS: Okay, but just the fact that we’re having this discussion. I mean we think, "isn’t this horrible that they’re doing this in the Sudan?" And it is because they were going to put her in jail and beat her. But the concept of it, the fact that we’re doing it here, I’m - even though it’s allowable and nobody’s, nobody’s going to whiplash and so forth- I think that there would be parents and people who would say "it’s irreverent to name a toy or a teddy bear after the Lord."
[...]
GOLDBERG: But I do think that if you say to a child "what would you like to name your teddy bear?" and the child says "Jesus," I think most people would say "you know what, good because you keep that teddy bear near you and that makes you feel good." I don’t think anybody would deny a child who says "I want to name this Jesus, because it’s mine and I can be with that." I don’t think anybody would have an issue with that.
WALTERS: I think there might be some who would say this is wonderful-
GOLDBERG: I’m not saying we can’t have a love affair.
[laughter]
WALTERS: But let’s have a real discussion.
GOLDBERG: I’m serious.
WALTERS: You give your point of view, which is you don’t think anyone would object.
GOLDBERG: Yes.
WALTERS: And perhaps they should, and perhaps they shouldn’t. I am saying there may be some people who might say to the school that you should-
GOLDBERG: Absolutely!
WALTERS: you know, that this is reverent, and we don’t want it. I’m just trying to say that even though we are, that what happened in the Sudan is outrageous, but it is in, if you try to put in, in your own head, it is not something that is so, "oh my goodness, how could they possibly do that?"
BEHAR: In the Sudan is that it’s, it’s state sanctioned there. Here it would just be an uproar from certain people.
WALTERS: No, I’m talking about that. I’m talking about it being offensive to some people. That’s all.
BEHAR: Right, right.
WALTERS: It’s not that far fetched.
BEHAR: Everything’s offensive to some people.
—Justin McCarthy is a news analyst at Media Research Center.
Comments Policy
"it’s irreverent to name
December 3, 2007 - 18:08 ET by motherbelt"it’s irreverent to name a toy or a teddy bear after the Lord."
"Kill her! Kill her by firing squad!!"
Ms. Walters, are you really equating the two?
If so, may I respectfully ask: Have you lost your mind?
Update: I just noticed that Ms. Walters actually added, later on in the discussion, (emphasis added):
you know, that this is reverent,[irreverent?] and we don’t want it. I’m just trying
to say that even though we are, that what happened in the Sudan is
outrageous, but it is in, if you try to put in, in your own head, it is
not something that is so, "oh my goodness, how could they possibly do
that?"
So if you put yourself in their shoes, it's outrageous but you can understand why they would react that way?
Besides being a complete butchering of syntax, that is political correctness bordering on insanity, IMO
huh?
December 3, 2007 - 17:03 ET by candanceI'd like these ladies to show me where Christians say it's blasphemy to name a teddy bear Jesus. I really love this "oh, well, it's never happened here, but if it did happen..." and then asking a liberal Jew what Christians would theoretically say.
Here's a crazy idea: get an evangelical Christian on the show and ask them.
I am so tired of elitist liberals telling me whom I'll vote for and what I believe.
The most dangerous thing in the world is an angry person with political power.
" Here's a crazy idea: get
December 3, 2007 - 17:08 ET by dabal"
Here's a crazy idea: get an evangelical Christian on the show and ask them."
I have a better idea, put a white male conservative on the View. Any religion.
It will change the show for the better and Whoopi won't have much to say knowing she can't espouse stupidity unchecked.
Hispanics name boys Jesus
December 3, 2007 - 17:23 ET by motherbeltHispanics name boys Jesus all the time and no one calls for their execution.
Islamic boy named Mohammed (Mo for short)
December 3, 2007 - 18:25 ET by ArcherBMohammed is an even more popular name than in Islamic parts of the world than Jesus is in Hispanic communities. A litlle boy in the class said, "We named the bear Mohammed, after ME!"
If you hamper the war effort of one side, you automatically help out that of the other. --George Orwell
Joy Behar
December 3, 2007 - 18:07 ET by easygoerMany people think Joy Behar is Jewish. She is an Italian. I presume that also makes her a baptized Roman Catholic. Her liberalism and her idiocy cannot be disputed,however.
Perhaps you should consult
December 3, 2007 - 22:01 ET by KeithPerhaps you should consult your Bible before such smarmy rhetoric. Exodus 20:7
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
What part of don't take the name of the Lord in vain do you think means naming a Teddy Bear "Jesus"? While this would be an unbelievably stupid thing to do, NO ONE would DIE over it .
I doubt if Jesus of
December 3, 2007 - 17:04 ET by mattmI doubt if Jesus of Nazareth would mind in the least.
But for some reason, thin skin maybe, Muhammed, or Mohamet, or Mohammed or whatever his name is, just can't take it...
Exodus 20:7Thou shalt not
December 3, 2007 - 22:02 ET by KeithExodus 20:7
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Before LYING about JESUS perhaps you should consult ONE OF HIS COMMANDMENTS~! duh.
da view
December 3, 2007 - 17:07 ET by the mad poleI thought they were going deep but they broke off the pattern and ran out of bounds.
Since Muslims don't think
December 3, 2007 - 17:08 ET by NBFSince Muslims don't think Mohammed is divine, a proper analogy would be to ask if Christians would have a problem with letting a child name a teddy bear Elijah, Elisha, or Isaiah. Clearly they would not have any problem with that.
Prophets to prophets, apples to apples.
I agree. Mohammed is their
December 3, 2007 - 17:18 ET by motherbeltI agree. Mohammed is their prophet, not their god.
It's not like he named the bear "Allah."
Jesus is divine, and in our custom, we don't name boys Jesus. But in Hispanic culture they do..
I don't recall seeing any Christians rioting and calling for bloodshed to stop Cubans or Mexicans from doing that.
When Christians or Catholics get upset about something (The "Piss Christ" or "Elephant Dung Mary" for example) we get told to chill. When was the last time the ladies on "The View" lectured each other on the need to be sensitive to us and our beliefs?
muslim worship
December 3, 2007 - 17:53 ET by mbuelThe Muslims worship Mohammed (that's why they ALWAYS put PBUH after his name) MORE than Allah. In that regards they are similiar to the mormon church of 40 years ago when they had stronger emphasis on worshipping Joseph Smith. (I don't think they ever worshipped him, the same way Muslims worship Mohammed though!)
NBF
December 3, 2007 - 17:25 ET by candanceThis is just another clever way for the liberal media to say Christians and Muslims are the same. "Believe you me, if that happened to the Christians they'd be just as angry." The View has been saying for years that the Christian church is as dangerous and bigoted as radical Islam. When they can't come up with proof, they come up with theoretical scenarios and insist it would be scary.
Truthfully, if that happened, the riots would come from atheist parents who wouldn't want their own children touching anything akin to Jesus Christ.
The most dangerous thing in the world is an angry person with political power.
I agree, candance and I am
December 3, 2007 - 17:56 ET by motherbeltI agree, candance and I am sick of their "moral equivalence."
Is it just me...or does anyone have a hard time reading this ?
December 3, 2007 - 17:11 ET by JayTeeIt's MSM babbel or View Babbel, it is quite difficult to follow these fragments of conversation and string them together....they say nothing that you can hang your hat on.
It's like Stream of consciousness times 4.
My head hurts trying to decipher it.
Riddle me this
December 3, 2007 - 17:12 ET by Prester JohnIf name of Mohammed is so dang sacred and inviolable, how in the world can they justify naming half their male children after him?
Talk about blasphemy.
John, that was my thought
December 3, 2007 - 17:21 ET by motherbeltJohn, that was my thought when I first heard this story last week.
It's IS ok to call a boy
December 3, 2007 - 18:22 ET by red_dragon311It's IS ok to call a boy Mohamed (sp?) because you are give praise to him by naming your son after him.
but they say, naming the Bear that it is giveing the name to a false idol.
"Christians in this country
December 3, 2007 - 17:22 ET by MrShy"Christians in this country would not be as uptight about it."
Christians would not be as "uptight" ??? So, Joey Behar's definition of "uptight" is..... drum roll please..... 40 slashings, or even better, execution??
Dana Perino and Newsbusters gals* will look great in Shywear!
(*shirts for guys, too)
Hey, I'm with the Muslims
December 3, 2007 - 17:17 ET by Hero SquadHey, I'm with the Muslims on this one. I, too, would want to run the person out of town who tried to get my child to name a Teddy Bear "Mohammed."
/sarc off
However, if my daughter came to me and wanted to name a Teddy Bear after Jesus, I think I would be touched and impressed.
*****
"There are no stupid questions. Only stupid people who ask questions." - Chris Berman
Hero Squad
December 3, 2007 - 17:19 ET by MrShyQuite a few wanted to do a lot more than run the poor woman out of town. They wanted to run her out of her life.
Dana Perino and Newsbusters gals* will look great in Shywear!
(*shirts for guys, too)
You'd also be putting the
December 3, 2007 - 22:08 ET by KeithYou'd also be putting the little princess in danger of HELL for violating one of the most specific commandments, Exodus 20:7
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Because you are familiar with fake churches that don't recognize Jesus as GOD will not help you . The scriptures are clear... Colossians 2:8-9 (King James Version)
King James Version(KJV)
Public Domain
8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.
So while you may be touched by your daughters disgustingly irreverent display, the Lord would not be similarly amused. BUT he STILL wouldn't kill you for it.
Don't be
December 4, 2007 - 12:43 ET by Hero SquadDon't be silly.
*****
"There are no stupid questions. Only stupid people who ask questions." - Chris Berman
Jesus, thee Name
December 3, 2007 - 17:18 ET by Lame CherryThere is a mystery involved in thee Name of Jesus which the ignorant like Barbara Walters never comprehend. For openers, Jesus is thee Son of the God and Muhammed is nothing but a human who heard Hebrew tales on trading expeditions and brought them home as an illiterate in bits and pieces to create a religion where the rejected masses of Semites not Hebrew who became the "chosen".
The Greek Jesus is but a name as is Joshua from which it derives as in the original Hebrew of Yeshua. He was but a 33 year manifestation of thee Word of thee Living God united in human form to be able to die as a sacrifice fulfilling the Old Covenant of the Law in order to buy back, redeem, purchase, become the ransom for many in all humans who accept thee Gift of Grace in being an adopted child of God from the original sin Eve took and Adam joined into as a forerunner of Christ joined to save the Church.
Muhammed knows nothing as all Islam of Grace. They are law and the God of doom and hell fire as the Koran incorrectly and incompletely dictates.
Thee Name though IS of the I Am, thee Almighty God, the Father and in that Name is Life. Name a teddy bear Muhammed and weak people afraid riot...........Name a teddy bear Jesus as Barbara Walters quips about in jest and whether one realizes it or not they have intitiated thee Name of the thee Living God in intent. By using that Name, one has initiated thee Power...........and Barbara Walters even uttering His Name has Jesus attention as she has activated the Word of God to look at her completely.........it is as if someone turns on the switch of a light, it can not be unturned off. That Light of Jesus with all His characteristics comes forth because His Name has been initiated.
This is why Solomon and the entire Hebrew peoples would NEVER use the Name of God when they were under the law as when one activates God one has brought forth a perfecting force which wipes out imperfection. That is why God refers to Himself as a consuming flame.
Using Jesus Name and any of the sacred Names of God all have consequences. Thee I Am that I Am is Holy as in set apart as when That Power activates That Power completes the Name's mission every time.
Christians would never degrade the Name of Life by naming a teddy bear as they understand the sacred nature of the name..........Barbara Walters though in uttering it has thee Light shining on her filth not covered by forgiveness she has confessed and submitted to. That is a sight Jesus abhores.
If people really understood how to use His Name and thee Power it produces, they would be more responsible in even thinking considering using it.
Oh and for a trivia note, Spoc on Star Trek, being Leonard Nimoy a Jew, took the symbol which the rabbi used of the Y and W of Yahew or Jehovah in English as the Vulcan sign, because rabbis used the letters in mimic on their hands as they would not utter God's Name.
Even Jews though still do not understand the blessing Shma ye Israel, Adonai Elohenu, Adonai Echad. (Here oh Israel, The Lord is God. The Lord is One).
The Adonai One with the Elohim is Jesus and is what the prophets were foretelling.
agtG 240
*HIC IACET ARTORIVS REX QVONDAM REXQVE FVTVRVS
I couldn't get through the
December 3, 2007 - 17:18 ET by charlietexasI couldn't get through the first few lines from these women. I have
PMS and it was giving me a headache. Justin, once again your a
saint for watching the View. I cant do it.
Love, MOM
Hey, Babs and Co.
December 3, 2007 - 17:24 ET by drillanwrTwo words:
"Piss Christ" ...
I am continually unimpressed and unsurprised by the level of non-intelligent life on that show.
GMTA, drill.
December 3, 2007 - 18:05 ET by motherbeltGMTA, drill.
I had this in my post above (emphasis added this time):
When Christians or Catholics get upset about something (The "Piss
Christ" or "Elephant Dung Mary" for example) we get told to chill. When
was the last time the ladies on "The View" lectured each other on the
need to be sensitive to us and our beliefs?
Give me one week on that
December 3, 2007 - 19:13 ET by drillanwrGive me one week on that stupid show ...
I'd love to go on that show
December 3, 2007 - 19:20 ET by bigtimerI'd love to go on that show for a few days myself...be great if us gals could, one week at a time.
Heheheeee...wouldn't it be great?
I'm not a "View" viewer
December 3, 2007 - 19:45 ET by sarcasmoBut I'm told tomorrow's show might have an interesting guest...
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
sarc... Oh let me
December 3, 2007 - 19:46 ET by bigtimersarc...
Oh let me guess...and the first one counts...
The initials must be R.P. and he is a congress-critter.
I'm wondering how they'll treat him.
December 3, 2007 - 19:52 ET by sarcasmoBut it's nice that they invited him at all. Supporters, but not me, seemed determined to buy the ladies a nice tea-set as a thank-you, so I guess they might mention that. I wish they'd have Mrs. Paul on sometime, she's a sweetheart.
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
sarc... I think it is sad
December 3, 2007 - 19:57 ET by bigtimersarc...
I think it is sad when any conservatives go on that show...but I know they do, I just think the pandering is ridiculous to go on there by some.
I know he didn't make it to the Glenn Beck show which I was waiting for and he didn't make it to a radio show that I was waiting to hear him on that was live on C-Span last week. but I guess this one is a winner.
A tea-set...how lovely....lol.
BT, that's why I love ya
December 4, 2007 - 04:37 ET by sarcasmoElizabeth doesn't count at all as "a conservative" with you. You go, girl! At least some of the time, I'm entirely with ya!! :)
I'm still not sure he'll make it to Beck's show but I hope it happens. (There's a fierce debate going on at DailyPaul over whether-or-not the good doctor should be interviewed on the Howard Stern show, and my side's losing so-far -- such "robots" us "spammers" are!) I'm pretty sure he'll go on C-Span again, as that's where he announced in the first place and we all seem to like Brian Lamb.
I suspect the tea set thank-you gift is a tribute to Paul Revere's skill, as well as a sly reference to a little party a few of us have planned for Boston (and the rest of the nation) on the 16th. In fact, the celebration will be all-weekend-long, because the 15th is Bill of Rights Day, and a lot of us celebrate that, too. Hopefully, by then the blimp will be up & the lucky riders will be dropping plenty of tea bags.
JMR
Rally online with fans of Dr. Ron Paul.
The Jesus Bear
December 3, 2007 - 17:25 ET by Airforce_5_OThe only people that would have a problem naming a teddy bear Jesus in a public school is the ACLU.
The only thing you should feel when shooting insurgents is the rifle recoil.
Exactly. If a teacher
December 3, 2007 - 17:46 ET by n2soonersExactly. If a teacher allowed her kids to name a bear Jesus, the ACLU would be out for her job. The outrage would be from the left, not the right.
yep
December 3, 2007 - 17:48 ET by mbuelyou beat me to that one...
Man you people are some
December 3, 2007 - 22:14 ET by KeithMan you people are some SORRY excuses for CHRISTIANS! Few of you seem to be able to even READ your bible much less UNDERSTAND anything you read. Every "Christian" that "wouldn't have a problem" with naming a stupid behind TEDDY BEAR JESUS, is a SORRY example of a Christian. While we certainly wouldn't riot and certainly wouldn't call for the death of anyone, WE who REVERE the name of JESUS CHRIST would be outraged. Why on earth wouldn't a violation of a commandment bother a supposed Christian?
Exodus 20:7
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Christianity
December 3, 2007 - 22:19 ET by saw the lightJudge not, lest ye be judged.
Christians might be "outraged" like you say (or yell - you seem a tad unhinged, if I may say so), but we certainly would not have the same reaction.
The majority of posts on this thread deal with the supposed "equivalence" of the punishment the Sudanese people are calling for. Criticizing the commitment to our Christian values, while knowing us only by a few words placed on these posts, is a quite shallow way to make assumptions.
**Judge not, lest ye be
December 4, 2007 - 03:25 ET by Keith**Judge not, lest ye be judged.**
I knew some genius with only THREE scriptures at his disposal would say that. Your ridiculously liberal p.c garbage post was so SILLY, but I'll try to deal with your utter and completer scriptural ignorance in order.
First. The Bible is God's "JUDGEMENT" for mankind NOT the other way around where YOU get to decided "right and wrong". There is no "alternate" view on taking the Lord's name in vain that would be why IT IS A COMMANDMENT. It is not "judging" a group of alleged Christians for their poor biblical knowledge and scholarship because the requirement that you STUDY the WORD and KNOW it is ALSO A COMMANDMENT.
2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
So don't blame me for jumping on a blog full of SO CALLED Christians who opine that Christ would be just FINE with something He felt was important enough to write in friggin' STONE. You deplore "judgement" and "ad hominem" attacks yet you call me unhinged when it is YOU, so called Christian, who doesn't know what BABY SAINTS know. I.E. that taking the Lords name in vain is SIN. You soft "Christian Lites" amaze me, so utterly complacent are you in your un-regenerated ignorance. I left no doubt as to what I thought of the crazy Muslims and how "extreme" that was. But that was the only distinction, degree, unless you think that it's OKAY to violate commandments.
***"Criticizing the commitment to our Christian values, while knowing us only by a few words placed on these posts, is a quite shallow way to make assumptions.***"
What "Christian values" could you possibly have if you didn't know that taking the Lords name in vain is a sin? No wonder you people don't know how you should be baptized OR how one receives, or more importantly, DOESN'T receive the Holy Ghost! If it was a test, you'dve FAILED. So don't go telling me, not to judge, numbnutz, only a fake, falsely baptized, non-Holy Ghost having, alleged "Christian" would say that. A Holy Ghost filled one would know that we are here to judge the world. In fact, a Holy Ghost filled Christian would know that you don't even know WHAT that Scripture MEANS. You think it's about "not judging" , it isn't. It's about not being a hypocrite and DOING the things you are JUDGING . For the bible to be telling you "not to judge" in the STOOPID LIBERAL sense, i.e., don't acknowledge bad behavior as being BAD, the bible wouldn't make any sense. The bible is God's COLLECTIVE judgement for mankind. If I tell you that un-repentant homosexuals go to hell, how am I judging them? God is the one who said that's where they end up and He gave His word to you so that you WON'T end up there! But I guess that sounds, "unhinged" Huh? This should show you how painfully little you know....
Corinthians 6:2
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
Put THAT in your "judgment" pipe and smoke it! LOL.
Self-righteous KEITH
December 3, 2007 - 22:28 ET by LionKingDo you understand what taking the Lord's name in vain means?
WWJD?
Do you think Jesus would have a fit if someone, especially a child, called a teddy bear, Jesus?
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
So Keith, what do you think
December 3, 2007 - 23:29 ET by motherbeltSo Keith, what do you think about all the Mexicans and Puerto Ricans who name their kids Jesus?
Motherbelt
December 3, 2007 - 23:41 ET by Airforce_5_OI'm not Kieth Motherbelt, but lets give it a try:
THEY who named THEM have taken the LORDS name in VAIN and are CONDEMED to HELL
(Some link to a Scripture)
YOU WILL ALL BURN IN HELL!!!!!
Hows that???
The only thing you should feel when shooting insurgents is the rifle recoil.
What I think about them
December 4, 2007 - 04:05 ET by KeithWhat I think about them Motherbelt, is that they've been MISLED by the False Church. The fake church was prophesied by Paul to the Apostle Timothy here, 1Tim 4:1-4. This is the church that baptized incorrectly and violates the express will of God by praying to people OTHER than JESUS CHRIST. This particular church's influence is rampant in Latin American countries and the result is predictable. You seem to think that I'm the one sending you to Hell or something. I'm not. I simply was pointing out that the act that you all were sanctioning violates the FOUNDATIONS of your supposed religion, being a friggin' COMMANDMENT AND ALL. But I'll be the "badguy" it's okay. The people who contacted me to say thank you for the instruction, are thanks enough.
Man you people are STOOPID.
December 4, 2007 - 03:33 ET by KeithMan you people are STOOPID. WHAT THE HELL DOES "VAIN" MEAN,? Moron! Here is the dictionary definition of the word VAIN.
in vain, a. without effect or avail; to no purpose: to apologize in vain. b.
in an improper or irreverent manner: to take God's name in vain.
And then for you to be such a moron as to close with "let he who is without sin...blah blah bla" . I'm sorry, did I call you up and call you a dummy? Or did you so called Christians just LIE about what is or is not okay with Jesus? I was minding my business reading a blog when I see a bunch of KNOW NOTHINGS opining that Christ is fine with a violation of a commandment He thought was important enough to write in stone! ( I luv that line, it shows you just how foolish your thinking is). What the heck do you think the ten commandments are FOR? OH, GREAT AND WISE BIBLICALLY ILLITERATE CHRISTIAN?
so called Christians
December 4, 2007 - 03:55 ET by mastersofdeceit" Or did you so called Christians just LIE about what is or is not okay with Jesus? "
You just blew it holmes. It's not up to you to decide who is a Christian. And guess what is not okay with Jesus? Deciding who is a Christian or not and deciding what is or is not ok with Jesus. I'll let God and his Son decide whether I'm a "Christian" enough or not. Certainly not some clown named keith on newsbusters.
WRONG AGAIN. If the church
December 4, 2007 - 05:05 ET by KeithTo Mastersofdeceit***
WRONG AGAIN. If the church was "deciding" who was or is not a Christian as they are SUPPOSED TO, people like Hillary couldn't use your faith against you. She couldn't walk into a REAL church with her fangs dripping with the blood of all the babies she's helped slaughter and pretend to be one of US. The problem with you is that your faith has been "liberalized". Here are some examples of people doing EXACTLY what you think is so WROONG. Did you know that the people in the church are supposed to be able to tell whether you have the Holy Ghost or not and if you don't, tell you that you'd better get it or burn? Probably not, since the pablum you wrote back indicates that you probably dont' think your salvation comes with definable PROOF. But It does and as usual, you're shall we say, "misguided"?
1 Corinthians 6:2
Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy tojudge the smallest matters?
Someone who is going to "judge the world" is quite capable of discerning whether you Understand what you read in your bible AND whether what you think you understand is properly defined. Here's Paul telling some folk that if they DON'T have the HOLY GHOST they DON'T belong to JESUS. "Un-Christian" to you?
Romans 8:9
9But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Pretty harsh right, after all it's not up to "anybody" to determine whether you're "christian" enough, right? Wrong. As for deciding what is or isn't okay with Jesus, the judgements I was using were not my own, that's what the Bible is for! HOW handcuffed are you "christians" who have lost the ability to say what's RIGHT and WRONG. Oh, well, I guess that's why you fellas have those "Log Cabin Sodomite" Republicans, huh? Because the "christian" party, has lost it's morality and ability to discern evil, and to say "You don't belong here UNLESS you're willing to repent", to your great chagrin.
"I'll let God and his Son decide whether I'm a "Christian" enough or not. Certainly not some clown named keith on newsbusters. "
First of all NUMBNUTZ ( if I'm a "clown", it must be okay for you to be a "numbnutz"), I have no friggin' idea WHO YOU ARE. I was responding to SPECIFIC people with SPECIFIC errors so perhaps you should mind your business and you won't get your feelings hurt. Secondly, here's what "God and His Son" , boy isn't that a revelation of poor scriptural knowledge, have to say on the subject....
John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.
then of course there's this gem.....
John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
Got all of that mister "no one tells me I'm not Christian enough but God and His son"? Here's a commandment for ya...
Exodus 20:7
Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
There JESUS JUST TOLD YOU (A). TO KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS AND (B) THAT TAKING HIS NAME IN VAIN IS A VIOLATION OF SAID COMMANDMENT. happy now?
BTW...why do you think that Jesus said this...
Matthew 7:19-21 (King James Version)King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain
19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Now answer if you will from "liberal world" but isn't "knowing them by their fruit" judging them for the appropriateness of their actions? If the fruit of so called Christians is biblical illiteracy, improper baptism and a paucity of scriptural knowledge so great that there are ATHEISTS with more understanding of what does or does not constitute a violation of commandments, it's your position that one should remain mute? I assure you, that isn't Jesus position or he wouldn't have sent people "crying loud and SPARING NOT".
Isaiah 58:1
Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.
See, contrary to your liberal p.c notions of Christians as pantywaist handwringers, the Lord uses a VARIETY of men to do His work. Moses, a murderer I dare say wasn't the most "genteel", John the Baptist as you recall, as one "CRYING in the wilderness" hardly a sunday social. No, I'm not comparing myself to these great men in any way other than as one who possesses the truth in the face of those who lack it. You judge a man by his "tone" and not by the scriptures which he laboriously reprints for your "edification and correction" as is proper. Sorry if you're offended. I was offended about people lying on Jesus. The problem is because they don't know that JESUS is the ONE who WROTE the danged COMMANDMENT in the FIRST PLACE!!!!!! Which is kind of like an adult being fuzzy on the whole "two plus two equals four" thing. See 1Peter 1:11 and tell me why this is so!
Still being self-righteous, Keith
December 4, 2007 - 12:21 ET by LionKingI asked a simple question. What would Jesus do? You act as though you are qualified to answer for Him.
Keith, are you familiar with the 2 Greatest Commandments?
VAIN and IN VAIN:
I assume your issue with calling a teddy bear Jesus is that you find that somehow disrepectful to the Lord. Explain how this is disrepectful.
[btw...I see you are one of those "Christians" that likes to pick and choose the parts of the Bible they want to follow. When you are sinless, then feel free to discuss removing the plank.]
Hey LionKing, I was not
December 5, 2007 - 05:57 ET by KeithHey LionKing,
I was not being "self righteous" I was answering biblical questions Biblically, something that takes time but that you all might try. Rather than give my own opinion I gave the Lords' opinion. Everytime one of you "lukewarm willie's" tries to bash me you BETRAY your stunning ignorance. Witness. You wrote in ERROR....
"I asked a simple question. What would Jesus do? You act as though you are qualified to answer for Him."
If asking me WHAT WOULD JESUS DO, isn't asking me to "answer for Him", what would be? Silly rabbit. I am qualified to answer for Him. Not because I am "special" but because I can read and since I HAVE the Holy Ghost, there's nothing PREVENTING me from understanding (Lu 24:49) as there is you. Your "understanding" of scripture is darkened because you haven't repented most likely, but dark it is nonetheless. Otherwise you would know that we do indeed have his "opinion" on everything, In fact we have his MIND.
1Corinthians 2:12-16
12 . Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. ( this is why you need the REAL Holy Ghost and you need the proof that comes with it)
13 .Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14.But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (This is why, when scriptures are reprinted showing you that you are baptized INCORRECTLY, you ignore them and think I'm the "Crazy fundamentalist guy".)
15. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. ( I'll bet this one's confusing you since it clashes with your incorrect understanding of "judge not lest ye be judged", huh? Hint: the "judge not" scripture is about hypocrisy NOT judgment, if you weren't supposed to "judge" you couldn't tell right from wrong and that would be stupid, since God provided you with a BIBLE.)
16For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
Now I'll speak a little about verse 16. See my uninformed friend we have the MIND OF JESUS CHRIST it's called THE HOLY GHOST and IT tells THOSE WHO HAVE IT what the Lord WANTS, DOESN'T WANT and feels about any specific issue! For the unregenerated amongst you, you STILL have no excuse, because He left you His Word which tells you in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS how he "feels" about EVERYTHING. What on earth did you think the BIBLE was? It's amazing to me when liberals call someone "judgemental" for condemning something that GOD ALREADY RENDERED JUDGEMENT ON! Judgemental would be me saying you're going to hell for wearing stripes and plaid, LOL, God hasn't rendered an opinion on that "ensemble" but he DID tell you that He's sending homosexuals and fornicators to HELL didn't he? He DID tell you that you better NOT KILL YOUR CHILDREN didn't HE? "Suffer the little children to come unto me.....etc"? So how am I "JUDGING" an abortionist by telling him he's going to HELL? God ALREADY DECIDED THAT, heck, I ain't "judging", I'm READING! Similarly, contrary to publicly held thought, GOD is the one that said YOU NEED TO BE BAPTIZED in water A CERTAIN WAY and be filled with THE HOLY GHOST the same way HE FILLED HIS APOSTLES AND DISCIPLES, not me!
John 3:8
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. ( what part of "everyone" do you have trouble understanding?)
And....
Mark 16:16
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Hey don't get mad at me I didn't write it! I'm only the poor schmuck who cares enough about you to tell you the truth. Sure, I'm a little "snarky" but so what, grow a pair would ya? Read the scriptures, I'm not making up my own verses, y'know?
"Keith, are you familiar with the 2 Greatest Commandments?"
Yes I am, Are you? That you love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself. Problem is, liberal stupidity has you thinking that "love" means ignoring your ERRORS concerning the faith, it doesn't. See, "love" is telling you what will send you to HELL and HELPING you avoid that. Love is telling a "brother" in Christ that He is in error, greivous error by not being BAPTIZED PROPERLY, since Jesus put this IMPORTANCE on the issue..
Mark 16:16
6He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Now if you think that any ol' baptism will do and Jesus doesn't and specifically warned against thinking THAT, I should remain mute? Allow you to perish in error? If YOUR liberal theology thinks that baptism is solely confined to the WATER but yet Jesus EXPANDS that definition to include the RECEPTION OF THE HOLY GHOST....
Acts 1:4,5
4And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
I should remain mute? So if your church mistakenly thinks that there is no evidence that one has the Holy Ghost but the apostles REQUIRED such "non-existent" evidence, who's in error? Your church or the Apostles of the Lord. I know who I'm bettin' on! And it ain't you and yours pal! Here's another part of the two great commandments that you don't understand either since you sought to beat me over the head with them. It doesn't cover NON-BELIEVERS. Don't think so? When Jesus was preaching one day His mother and brothers came looking for Him. Not being converted yet, they were just His natural family according to the flesh and they wanted Him to come with them. When the people that were around him told him they were waiting, he completely dissed them. He told the multitude that THEY were HIS FAMILY because THEY, as opposed to Mary and co, were followers of God. Hardly the deification the Catholics have imagined for Mary, huh?
Mark 3
31There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.
32And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.
33And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?
34And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
35For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.
You're also supposed to SEPARATE YOURSELF from "unbelievers" did you know that? Is this "un-Christian" as you haters accuse me of being?
2 CORINTHIANS 6:14-18
14. Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15. And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? ( guess you thought the Muslims owned the word "infidel", huh? They stole it from Jesus.)
16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
18And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
The bible is NOT in the business of coddling silly "feelings". When Jesus says that if you're not baptized AS HE DEMANDS IT, you're going to HELL, well, I'd just take that on face value and get baptized RIGHT! Especially, if some guy on the internet actuallly PRINTED OUT the very SCRIPTURES that you can CHECK and probably never even heard of! But noooo.. you want to criticize my "tone" and accuse me of not loving you. Did PAUL NOT love the people he met on the way to Ephesus, when he told THEM they WERE NOT BAPTIZED PROPERLY? Same thing i did for you? So, did Paul "NOT LOVE" them when he RE-BAPTIZED THEM PROPERLY? And did he NOT love them when He got on his knees with them and prayed for them to receive the Holy Ghost, which they did with the APPROPRIATE EVIDENCE OF SPEAKING IN TONGUES?
Acts 19:1-6
1And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
7And all the men were about twelve.
You don't know what LOVE is my friend. What I've done for you on this blog is the SAME thing that Paul did for them, minus the "hand laying" of course. I showed you where you churches were WRONG. I showed you how you are SUPPOSED to be Baptized and I showed you that JESUS said there's only ONE BAPTISM and it ain't YOURS! Sounds a heckuva lot like LOVE to me pally.
Man I'm getting pissed the more I read the junk you wrote! You want me to explain WHY labeling a teddy bear JESUS is "irreverent" ? Is that a joke? The NAME of God, in all it's incarnations has been held in such high esteem that the HEBREW scriptures DON'T EVEN PRINT HIS NAME in most places!!! Did you know that? That's why it says "the Lord" this or "the Lord" that! GOD gave MANY names for himself, NONE of which prior generations felt easy just throwing around and you want to know why lableing a stupid teddy bear Jesus is wrong? And I'm the one that's crazy? No, my friend it's you who is Buggin'.
***[btw...I see you are one of those "Christians" that likes to pick and choose the parts of the Bible they want to follow. When you are sinless, then feel free to discuss removing the plank.]***
Here at the end all your silliness is on display. How exactly did I show you that I like to "pick and choose" anything? The subject I was discussing was Baptism and reception of the Holy Ghost in particular and salvation in general. I left NOTHING out. If you think I did why didn't yo reprint them and show ME the "error" of my ways. Because you couldn't and instead you close your missive like a SILLY LIBERAL. "When you are sinless then feel free..blah blah blah" . Where the Apostles sinless? Nope. Is that why you aren't listening to them either silly man? Under that stupid liberal canard no one can ever tell ANYONE ANYTHING! No, I am NOT without sin, in fact, I'm prone to some GREAT BIG ONES. But I've also been healed miraculously by Jesus TWICE most recently (2004), of gunshot wounds, FOUR OF THEM. Eight days after being shot in the face I walked out of the hospital with the doctors unable to even tell WHERE i had been shot. And I TOLD THEM this would HAPPEN when I came IN. I told them in advance that I was not going to die, because AS i was being shot I cried out to the Lord and he heard my cry, he said and I quote " You are not going to die today" period. That gave me the strength to knock my attacker unconscious, breaking my left hand over his head in the process. I know that Jesus is God. I have photographic evidence of the bullet hole that went THROUGH my face, healing at a disproportionate rate than the three other bullet holes, in my body btw, for the doubters! Paul had sin, my friend is he capable of telling you in your arrogance, anything? How's about this one?
Romans 8:9 (partial) Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
Hey LionKing, I was not
December 5, 2007 - 05:57 ET by KeithHey LionKing,
I was not being "self righteous" I was answering biblical questions Biblically, something that takes time but that you all might try. Rather than give my own opinion I gave the Lords' opinion. Everytime one of you "lukewarm willie's" tries to bash me you BETRAY your stunning ignorance. Witness. You wrote in ERROR....
"I asked a simple question. What would Jesus do? You act as though you are qualified to answer for Him."
If asking me WHAT WOULD JESUS DO, isn't asking me to "answer for Him", what would be? Silly rabbit. I am qualified to answer for Him. Not because I am "special" but because I can read and since I HAVE the Holy Ghost, there's nothing PREVENTING me from understanding (Lu 24:49) as there is you. Your "understanding" of scripture is darkened because you haven't repented most likely, but dark it is nonetheless. Otherwise you would know that we do indeed have his "opinion" on everything, In fact we have his MIND.
1Corinthians 2:12-16
12 . Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. ( this is why you need the REAL Holy Ghost and you need the proof that comes with it)
13 .Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14.But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. (This is why, when scriptures are reprinted showing you that you are baptized INCORRECTLY, you ignore them and think I'm the "Crazy fundamentalist guy".)
15. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. ( I'll bet this one's confusing you since it clashes with your incorrect understanding of "judge not lest ye be judged", huh? Hint: the "judge not" scripture is about hypocrisy NOT judgment, if you weren't supposed to "judge" you couldn't tell right from wrong and that would be stupid, since God provided you with a BIBLE.)
16For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.
Now I'll speak a little about verse 16. See my uninformed friend we have the MIND OF JESUS CHRIST it's called THE HOLY GHOST and IT tells THOSE WHO HAVE IT what the Lord WANTS, DOESN'T WANT and feels about any specific issue! For the unregenerated amongst you, you STILL have no excuse, because He left you His Word which tells you in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS how he "feels" about EVERYTHING. What on earth did you think the BIBLE was? It's amazing to me when liberals call someone "judgemental" for condemning something that GOD ALREADY RENDERED JUDGEMENT ON! Judgemental would be me saying you're going to hell for wearing stripes and plaid, LOL, God hasn't rendered an opinion on that "ensemble" but he DID tell you that He's sending homosexuals and fornicators to HELL didn't he? He DID tell you that you better NOT KILL YOUR CHILDREN didn't HE? "Suffer the little children to come unto me.....etc"? So how am I "JUDGING" an abortionist by telling him he's going to HELL? God ALREADY DECIDED THAT, heck, I ain't "judging", I'm READING! Similarly, contrary to publicly held thought, GOD is the one that said YOU NEED TO BE BAPTIZED in water A CERTAIN WAY and be filled with THE HOLY GHOST the same way HE FILLED HIS APOSTLES AND DISCIPLES, not me!
John 3:8
8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. ( what part of "everyone" do you have trouble understanding?)
And....
Mark 16:16
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Hey don't get mad at me I didn't write it! I'm only the poor schmuck who cares enough about you to tell you the truth. Sure, I'm a little "snarky" but so what, grow a pair would ya? Read the scriptures, I'm not making up my own verses, y'know?
"Keith, are you familiar with the 2 Greatest Commandments?"
Yes I am, Are you? That you love God with all your heart and love your neighbor as yourself. Problem is, liberal stupidity has you thinking that "love" means ignoring your ERRORS concerning the faith, it doesn't. See, "love" is telling you what will send you to HELL and HELPING you avoid that. Love is telling a "brother" in Christ that He is in error, greivous error by not being BAPTIZED PROPERLY, since Jesus put this IMPORTANCE on the issue..
Mark 16:16
6He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Now if you think that any ol' baptism will do and Jesus doesn't and specifically warned against thinking THAT, I should remain mute? Allow you to perish in error? If YOUR liberal theology thinks that baptism is solely confined to the WATER but yet Jesus EXPANDS that definition to include the RECEPTION OF THE HOLY GHOST....
Acts 1:4,5
4And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.
5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
I should remain mute? So if your church mistakenly thinks that there is no evidence that one has the Holy Ghost but the apostles REQUIRED such "non-existent" evidence, who's in error? Your church or the Apostles of the Lord. I know who I'm bettin' on! And it ain't you and yours pal! Here's another part of the two great commandments that you don't understand either since you sought to beat me over the head with them. It doesn't cover NON-BELIEVERS. Don't think so? When Jesus was preaching one day His mother and brothers came looking for Him. Not being converted yet, they were just His natural family according to the flesh and they wanted Him to come with them. When the people that were around him told him they were waiting, he completely dissed them. He told the multitude that THEY were HIS FAMILY because THEY, as opposed to Mary and co, were followers of God. Hardly the deification the Catholics have imagined for Mary, huh?
Mark 3
31There came then his brethren and his mother, and, standing without, sent unto him, calling him.
32And the multitude sat about him, and they said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren without seek for thee.
33And he answered them, saying, Who is my mother, or my brethren?
34And he looked round about on them which sat about him, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
35For whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother.
You're also supposed to SEPARATE YOURSELF from "unbelievers" did you know that? Is this "un-Christian" as you haters accuse me of being?
2 CORINTHIANS 6:14-18
14. Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what