Big shock here - MSNBC's Rachel Maddow agrees with the White House, which is the Fox News Channel is not really a news organization.
Sarcasm aside, on her Oct. 23 MSNBC program, Maddow attempted to justify the Obama administration's tack over recent months with Fox News. She laid out a series of events over the past few days that indicated an escalation of the feud between Fox News and the White House, specifically an effort to exclude Fox News from the White House pool.
"Well yesterday the White House said that Fox would not be among the networks invited to interview Ken Feinberg in one of these round-robin pool interviews and the other networks came to Fox's defense," Maddow reported. "They said they would bow out of interviewing Mr. Feinberg's themselves unless Fox was included, so Fox was included."
Fox may have won a small victory according to Maddow, but that wasn't proof in her view that Fox News is technically a news organization.
"Fox has since been trumpeting this as a victory over the White House and as evidence the media sees Fox as a news station even if the White House doesn't," Maddow said. "Fox is right, in that the media generally does treat Fox as a news station, even as the White House says they're not. Is Fox a news station? The answer to that is unrelated to the question of whether and which Fox hosts and correspondents express their opinion about the news. It's is possible to express that opinion about the news and still cover the news responsibly."
And that's where Maddow laid out exactly what a news organization is. According to Maddow, since Fox News promoted its coverage of April 15 "Tea Party" protests, it could no longer define itself as a news organization in the sense MSNBC does.
"Expressing an opinion about the news does not negate one's status as a news reporter or as a correspondent or as a news anchor," Maddow said. "The expression of opinion about the news is not the difference between Fox and the rest of the news media. The difference between Fox and news is that Fox is now actively organizing and promoting a protest movement against the U.S. government."
Oh really? If Maddow's rule applies in an absolute sense, that would mean MSNBC is not a news as well. Flashback to Oct. 7: Both Maddow and her MSNBC colleague, "Countdown" host Keith Olbermann, engaged in their own brand of AstroTurf. They encouraged free health care clinics to be held in the states of six Democratic senators that are not in lockstep with the left-wing agenda on health care reform as a ploy to turn up the heat on those senators to support a so-called public health care option (emphasis added).
"[Keith Olbermann's] specifically talking about a technique that would increase political pressure on six senate Democrats who are key to allowing a vote on health reform," Maddow said on her Oct. 7 broadcast. "The proposal, as Keith said, is to hold massive free health clinics weekly in the capital cities of the states represented by these key six Democratic senators. Sens. Blanche Lincoln and Mark Pryor of Arkansas, Sen. Max Baucus of Montana, Sen. Ben Nelson of Nebraska, Sen. Mary Landrieu of Louisiana and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada."
But that being said, Maddow went on to point out statements from Fox News personalities and commercials run on the network that promoted the coverage of the April 15, 2009 TEA party protests and the Sept. 12, 2009 March on Washington, D.C. promotions. And according to Maddow, Fox News crossed the line of opinion journalism into public advocacy.
"The difference between Fox and news is not that Fox's hired personalities and executives and producers share and express and opinion about the news, that they share an ideology," Maddow said. "Opinion has always been a kissing cousin to news and one man's ideology is another man's objective passion. The difference between Fox and news, the way in which one of these things is not like the other, is that only one of these organizations is organizing anti-government street protests."
Therefore, she concluded Fox News actions, which she deemed legal, made the Obama administration justified in trying to gin up this spat with Fox.
"There is nothing wrong with that," Maddow said. "It's perfectly legal as far as I know. It just makes Fox an opposition political outlet to the Democratic Party and the Obama White House rather than a normal news channel."
However, that also begs the question - if promoting a public protest "negates" a media outlet's status as a news organization, wouldn't that mean attempting to denigrate it for political purposes do the same as well?
If you go back to the April 13 broadcast of Maddow's program, both Maddow and Air America radio contributor Ana Marie Cox attempted denigrate the April 15 Tea Party protest with "teabagging" humor. The two had this classic, but juvenile exchange, in an effort to see who could use the word "teabag" or a derivative of it the most:
MADDOW: Is there some Ron Paul revolution in the teabagging, do you think?
COX: Well, there is a lot of love in teabagging. You have to say that. And that was my favorite thing about the Ron Paul revolution. It had love in it, literally in the logo. You know, it is funny. They really did come up with the concept of the tea party. In 2007, actually, is when they started referring to some of their events as tea parties. It is curious, though, as you point out, they do not use the verb "teabag." It might be because they're less enthusiastic about teabagging than some of the more corporate conservatives who seem to have taken to it quite easily.
MADDOW: They, also, seemed like they had a habit of being good on the online machine. They said there's a lot of very savvy Web organizing so maybe occurred to them to Google the phrase.
COX: Perhaps. And also, you know, I was looking around on some of the Ron Paul Web sites today, some of the blogs from his supporters that are still out there, and a few of them have promoted these events, these current teabagging events. And it's fun if you read the comments - people mock them. These ardent Ron Paul supporters find this particular iteration of what had been, I think, a pretty good idea that one single money bomb event that they had on the anniversary of the Boston Tea Party to raise money for Dr. Paul is being somewhat perverted, I might say, by the current teabaggers.
MADDOW: Dr. Paul himself is going to be appearing at one of the teabagging events. He told the Star Telegram - he said, "These things are popping up spontaneously around the country."
I noticed even during the presidential campaign, I know, that he sort of disavowed the movement around himself even when it was so obviously about him. So, he never quite said, "I don't know who these people are," but he always sort of seemed like that. Is it possible we're seeing the same dynamic?
COX: I think so. I'm not sure if Dr. Paul is as good on the Internets as perhaps his followers are. And he also may not know how to use Urban Dictionary. But, also, I want to point out some of the Ron Paul people that are going to these rallies and Dr. Paul himself, I think, do genuinely believe in whatever wacky ideas being supported here. I mean, it is hard for him to say what the idea is, as you point out, a sort of amorphous outrage. But the Ron Paul people are very anti- tax of any kind, so there you go.
MADDOW: That's a connection.
COX: That's their justification be for being there. That's all I can say.
MADDOW: Do you think that the Obama administration like Robert Gibbs in the press office will talk about and promote the teabagging folks the way they have picked on some other conservative causes and figures like Rush Limbaugh?
COX: Well, I have been waiting for Gibbs to talk about teabagging from the podium for a long time. And I'm sure there are other White House supporters who would also greatly look forward to him, explicating the White House's position on teabagging. However, I don't think that's going to happen partially because I think they also know how to use UrbanDictionary.com.
And based on that exchange, Rachel Maddow is the ideal person to define what is and what isn't a news organization, sarcasm not aside.





















Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Rachel Man Cow--
Sat, 10/24/2009 - 01:11 ET by carolina09wouldn't know much about teabags, but probably a lot about astroturf.
Green is Universal
Sat, 10/24/2009 - 09:04 ET by allanfWho can forget NBC's Green is Universal pean to Global Warming alarmists. Can we forget NBC's emoting celebrity groupie, Ann Curry hosting the Al Gore "Live Earth Party"? How can forget Ann's touchy feel Gore interview even mocked by Joe Scarborough? Ann is the same reporter who told Bush Americans a Suffering because of the war.
I don't think Rachel should be arguing this point.
As for ABC, let's not forget their Obama Health Care special (promotion).
And...
Sat, 10/24/2009 - 01:21 ET by Fuzzlenutter...LOTS about rug comparisons...
Now I am seeing..
Sat, 10/24/2009 - 02:57 ET by urbuggenmeNow I am seeing just who MSNBC's viewers are. It's actually Newsbuster staff; Big Gov; Michele Malkin; and the rest of the conservitive blogs...HEY YOU GUYS! stop watching and what little viewership that Olberfurah and Strap-on have...apparently the only others watching them is Obama
my spell check still doesn't recognize Obama, wish I didn't
She and Olberdork
Sat, 10/24/2009 - 03:16 ET by Army Bratreceived their attack plans at the Obama briefing and will now implement them.
Obama is a liar and Truth is
killing his Marxist agenda.
Army Brat
Sat, 10/24/2009 - 09:08 ET by HoosierEmThat is JUST what I was thinking. And I'm being serious......I am sure Obama passed out a packet of talking points for his little MSNBC minions. I'm sure they think they are pretty special but Obama will throw them under the bus eventually.
When NPR stands up for me
Sat, 10/24/2009 - 03:28 ET by TheHistorianI am REALLY worried that I might be on the wrong side of the issue.
"What experience and history teach is
this - that people and governments never have learned anything from history,
or acted on principles deduced from it."
G. W. F. Hegel
I like what Michael Savage
Sat, 10/24/2009 - 03:47 ET by rockyracoonI like what Michael Savage called her the other day, Pat, from the old SNL skit; It fits her like a glove.
Facts are like kryptonite to the liberal.
Pat
Sat, 10/24/2009 - 06:21 ET by Jeff in Miami BeachIt's even better when Al Frankenbaby (who played Pat) is now in the Senate thanks to ACORN finding more votes weekly.
If you think medical care is expensive now wait until it is free!
Why did no on on her staff
Sat, 10/24/2009 - 06:05 ET by motherbeltWhy did no on on her staff inform Rachel that Glenn Beck is a commentator, not a newscaster???
And gosh, wasn't that just a hoot when she and Wonkette went on and on about teabagging? I love that sophisticated liberal "humor."
MSNBC...The place for depravity.
Things are just geting interesting now
Sat, 10/24/2009 - 06:32 ET by FranksamSome years ago, when I was still "putting my feet underneath the dinner table" at my dad's house, as he called it, I would say something referencing 'they', or 'them'. My papa would always interrupt and ask me to identify who 'they' were.
Does Rachel know that she's 'them' when she talks about the other networks? I think the belt on her strap-on might be too tight, causing interference with blood flow. Will this condition be covered under the Public Option? Could this be an explanation as to why one side of her mouth works independantly of the other? We're already clear that it's not from tea-bagging.
IF the belt is too tight, that problem is covered under
Sat, 10/24/2009 - 06:45 ET by CO2Makerthe Pubic Option
Ann Marie COX
Sat, 10/24/2009 - 06:48 ET by jacktheripperdoes no one else see the irony ?
"The American Republic will endure, until politicians realize they can
bribe the people with their own money." – Alexis de Tocqueville
Meaty Fingers Maddow
Sat, 10/24/2009 - 07:43 ET by txradioguy"Fox may have won a small victory according to Maddow, but that wasn't proof in her view that Fox News is technically a news organization."
And just because Russell Maddow wears a bra and panties isn't proof in my view that Meaty Fingers is technically a woman.
"I May Be Changed By War, But I Will Not Be Defeated By It" - Audie Murphy
ok, getting offended here
Sat, 10/24/2009 - 07:46 ET by jon_torlinYou know something? There's absolutely NOTHING normal about what this madcow and her ilk are saying and doing (read between the lines there!) when they keep doing this cheap crap about calling it "teabagging" like they are doing.
Good God, they can't possible NOT know what that term means at this point, especially if the Madcow diseased one is supposed to be some kind of goofy scholar from some goofy school, so these jokers have gotten to a new level of being patently offensive while treating it as something else.
So in that venue, hey madcow, do any fur trading? Know any good carpet cleaners? I got a lawn that needs mowing! Got any recommendations about which U-Haul to use?(turnabout's fair play)
Boy, this really takes the cake, no decency of any kind, sure glad I deleted that channel off my TV. These people are beyond disgusting.
-Jon
IMHO
Sat, 10/24/2009 - 08:10 ET by txradioguyThese idiots know what the real term is and what the term they are using means.
Like a bunch of school kids learning to cuss they think they are funny and getting away with something.
"I May Be Changed By War, But I Will Not Be Defeated By It" - Audie Murphy
Ditto, I'm offended too
Sun, 10/25/2009 - 05:44 ET by okiegemIt's obvious, you have NO degree. Nor any degree of decency. “Observe which side resorts to the most vociferous name-calling and you are likely to have identified the side with the weaker argument and they know it”. Charles R. Anderson
MSNBC forgot something....
Sat, 10/24/2009 - 07:56 ET by sshuffield70While FNC was doing the 9/12 protests, they aired a special, complete with pre-game analysis, from Minnesota praising The One's health care "plan".
IOW, they're GUILTY as charged.
"teabaggers"
Sat, 10/24/2009 - 08:12 ET by sarainitalyAs I was reading my way thru this post, I kept thinking about her mocking the tea parties. Glad it was included in the end.
I wonder how Maddow feels about Katie Couric thinking she and the msnbc primetime lineup are as partisan as the primetime FOX lineup?
Seriously, who the hell does Maddow , Olby, Tingles, or Shultz think they are fooling that they are NOT partisan, and lefties, who do everything to support the left? MY GAWD - Tingles said it was HIS JOB to make sure this new president succeeds.
Do they not remember ALL of the scathing "FACIST" Special Comments by Olby on Bush, and other Republican? Or ALL of the Worst Persons in the World's happen to be 95% Conservative? Or that Maddow was from Air America?
FOX Commentary is doing what msnbc did for the last eight years - criticize the opponents. But I have never heard anything on FOX that nears the VILE crap spewed from msnbc.
Now That....
Sat, 10/24/2009 - 08:24 ET by rightwingidiotNow that RM and Olby are WH approved news vendors with thier little private conference with Obeyme, you can bet that the "Fox is not a news organization" rant will not only continue from MesSNBC, I'm confident it will ratchet up.
I'm quite sure that Obeyme encouraged the attendants of his little private session to increase the attacks on Fox. He knows (or maybe someone in the WH does) that unless the other networks pile on to Fox, the WH is alone in this fight. The WH needs some cover on this. If they keep it up (Fox bashing), the other press are going to fall out of love with Obeyme, and fast. They could be next.
The real problem with all of this adoration and supoort of Obeyme in this is that they know not what they're doing. They think they could never be put in the same position as Fox because they love and adore Obeyme so much they couldn't possibly ever disagree with him and want to express an opposition opinion. Bullcrap!
As much as the MesSNBC crowd are kissing Obeyme's ass today, there will come a time when they oppose him. When that day comes, they will be treated the same as Fox is today.
This WH does not like dissent in any form or fashion. Only love and adortion are allowed lest you be thrown to the wolves.
Oh, WOW!
Sat, 10/24/2009 - 08:31 ET by Indiana JoeThe left is a bunch of hypocrites?
Who'd a thunk it?
"Four legs good... two legs better!" - George Orwell
She/he
Sat, 10/24/2009 - 09:50 ET by jessieHShe/he is right about one thing. Fox isn't a normal news channel. Fox reports the news.
Thank God more people saw it on NBs
Sat, 10/24/2009 - 10:23 ET by Paul Gthan saw her show.
Poor Rachel Man/cow continues
Sat, 10/24/2009 - 16:28 ET by BO STINKSto make a fool of himself/herself, little knowing that the hypocrisy is blatant. When he/she looks in the mirror, does he/she throw up a little in his/her mouth?
"How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!" Sam Adams
A Matter of Semantics
Sun, 10/25/2009 - 06:00 ET by okiegemFox actively organizes and promotes a protest movement against the U.S. government. Maddow and Olbermann encourage free health care clinics in states whose senators oppose the public health care option. Hummmm. Fox “organizes and promotes” a movement against the government. Maddow and Olbermann “encourage” philanthropic health clinics for the needy to make a point to a few individuals. Hummmm. It appears the author here has difficulty with word definitions and with the essence of the associated process in each case. There is no comparison to be made. Taking a proactive part in “organizing and promoting” a movement against the government which is endorsed by the FOXNEWS network itself is vastly different from two individuals “encouraging” and even financially supporting a philanthropic process that is organized and carried out by someone else (the National Association of Free Clinics) and is not endorsed by the MSNBC network as a whole. The author is making a pointless argument. This author goes on to again compare the synonymous ideological position of members of an entire network with the opinions of a single programmer on another network. Again, there can be no comparison between such dissimilar entities. For a second time, he’s attempting to compare apples to oranges, penning another senseless argument. Because Fox acts as a unit to oppose everything Obama and Democratic Party its credibility as a news outlet is seriously compromised. Ms. Maddow’s argument is valid. But, no, Mr. Poor, Ms. Maddow’s individual comment on this fact does NOT negate the entire MSNBC media outlet status as a news organization! I'm very impressed at just how well the facts, history and logic itself escape so many of the authors and commenters on this website. Ongoing reinvention of fabrications about the current administration, its accomplishments and legitimate fact-based news outlets must be very inspirational to others who also suffer from delusional and/or paranoid thinking. This forum gives substantial validation and support to the fear and negativity that conjure both delusional and paranoid thought processes. But, it also gives pause to those unpredisposed to such thinking to identify a cause for the unprecedented numbers of Americans as of late who seem to have developed this pernicious disorder. The prevalence and variability of cable television makes it suspect as a source of the catalyst. To the more objective and open-minded, each day clarifies a bit more just how much damage can be done when certain negative antagonists purporting to present the “news” or their “opinion” of it propagate their delusions to a mass audience. The fact that the Republican Party has shrunk by 3% and the Dems have increased 5% since August is evidence enough. Fortunately, the damage being done benefits the protagonists in this story.
Aren't You Mr Stuck On Yourself?
Sun, 10/25/2009 - 20:42 ET by VinceP1974>Fox actively organizes and promotes a protest movement against the U.S. government.
Against the US Govt? What does that mean... against there being a Federal Govt of the United States?
Or did you mean... against the Fed Gov't engaging in damaging Unconstitutional activities?
In effect, those are Pro-US Govt rallies in the sense that we wish to see a properly constrained, Constitutional US Govt... the only legitimate Government that there can be.
>Maddow and Olbermann encourage free health care clinics in states whose senators oppose the public health care option
Good for them. No one would deny them their right to do so.
>Hummmm. It appears the author here has difficulty with word definitions and with the essence of the associated process in each case. There is no comparison to be made.
Sure there is... dabbling in political processes and movements is dabbling in political processes and movements.
It's your own subjective bias that makes one different than another. In fact I'm sure you're jealous that Fox-related movements resonate with far more Americans than MSNBC's.
>Because Fox acts as a unit to oppose everything Obama and Democratic Party its credibility as a news outlet is seriously compromised.
IIRC, the press' proper role is to scrutinize everything the Govt does. That to "be against it" is the default position. The default position of ABCCBSNBCCNBCMSNBC - CNNCNNHNUSATNYTLATWTNPRPBS seems to be to support everything the Democrats and Obama do. Their credibility has been questioned by Americans for years.
ABC - Doctoring the Palin interview. Airing the Obamcare Infomercial. Not selling the 9/11 Film DVD
CBS - National Guard documents fraud story
NBC - Exploding gas tanks, GE bias
NYT - Countless examples including fraud story-inventing writers
Those are from the top of my head.
But most importantly, the 90%+ affiliation of Journalists, Editors, Producers as Democrats.
>But, no, Mr. Poor, Ms. Maddow’s individual comment on this fact does NOT negate the entire MSNBC media outlet status as a news organization!
I would say David Shuster and Andrea Greenspan do that well enough.
>But, it also gives pause to those unpredisposed to such thinking to identify a cause for the unprecedented numbers of Americans as of late who seem to have developed this pernicious disorder.
What gave me pause was your inability to press the Enter key and give us poor readers some readability to make sense of your unnecessarily verbose and logically flawed desperate criticism wrapped up in another boring, trite, cliched psychological profile.
Leftists are the last people who should attempt to psychologically analyze anyone who they disagree with , since they have no idea who those people really are, and instead have a cliched template they refer to that hasn't been updated since 1968
>The fact that the Republican Party has shrunk by 3% and the Dems have increased 5% since August is evidence enough. Fortunately, the damage being done benefits the protagonists in this story.
The hapless Republican Party's trend has no bearing on this discussion as the Conservatives and Libertarians who are this administration's and this Congress' main challengers are not acting from within it.
Very good breakdown
Sun, 10/25/2009 - 21:07 ET by general companyOf some seriously flawd logic
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
@general company
Sun, 10/25/2009 - 21:42 ET by VinceP1974Thanks. Your comments on
"Media Matters Won't Apologize for Spreading Fake Limbaugh Slavery Quote"
are equally sagacious
Maddow
Sat, 10/31/2009 - 19:41 ET by Patrick MichaelThat Maddow person is getting a lot more popular, last week her 'show' rated almost as high as the rerun of the George Foreman infomercial. The only thing that makes Maddow look good is Joy Behar.
Stay Free!!!