Economists Warn Obamanomics Could Create Depression; WSJ's Moore Responds

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It's clear that President Barack Obama's $787-billion stimulus hasn't worked as advertised, but some economists are worried it could backfire and cause something much worse.

According to a new study by economists Charles Rowley of George Mason University and Nathanael Smith of the Locke Institute and endorsed by Nobel laureate James Buchanan, the Keynesian tactics employed by Obama "will ultimately hamper the long-term growth potential of the U.S. economy and may risk delaying full economic recovery by several years." The study accuses the president of making Depression-era mistakes.

Stephen Moore, member of the Wall Street Journal editorial board and senior economics writer, explained the study on Fox News "On the Record" Sept. 7 and said that the stimulus certainly hasn't lived up to its billing.

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"Well, it certainly isn't working as well as the White House expected, Jamie," Moore said. "We know that because the president said if we pass this stimulus, we wouldn't have an unemployment rate above 8 percent. In fact, now we have an unemployment rate that's closing in on 10 percent. We've lost 2 million jobs. We were supposed to have created 2 million jobs. So when the President says the job of recovery isn't done yet, I hope they're not done yet because we've got 15 million Americans unemployed."

Moore said the point of the Rowley and Smith study was that huge amounts of inefficient government spending that incurred debt were not good for the long-term prognosis of the economy.

"I think that the point of that article and the study you're talking about, Jamie, is that we know from history that when you have huge amounts of debt and huge amounts of government spending, contrary to what a lot of economists believe - that doesn't cause economic growth," Moore continued. "That actually causes more Americans to lose their job because you have this huge amount of debt and the government usually spends the money on inefficient things."

Moore said the administration's argument that things would have been a lot worse without the stimulus isn't the most defensible position. The perceived success of the stimulus would depend on the psychology of the consumer and out-of-work Americans.

"You can never argue against what might have otherwise happened," Moore said. "But all we really have to go on is what the promise was made when they approved that $800-billion package, Jamie, you remember it. The President went on national TV and said, ‘If we do this, we'll keep the unemployment rate less than 8 percent.' We have today the highest unemployment rate in 26 years at 9.7 percent and Jamie, it's worse than that because if you include people who are looking for jobs - for full-time work - because a lot of Americans are working but they can't find a full-time job. They're working maybe 15 or 20 hours a week. If you want to include those people, the real unemployment rate in the United States is about 16 percent. So those are abysmal numbers."

However, Moore wasn't as pessimistic about the prospects of the economy as the study's authors were. He told "On the Record" guest host Jamie Colby the economy would recover, but it all depended on the job market and not other indicators.

"Now, I do think we're gonna see a recovery," Moore said. "I do think the kind of natural animal spirits of this economy and the entrepreneurial spirit of America is we're going to see a recovery. The real question is, are we going to get the jobs back? And I really believe - contrary to what Vice President Biden says, to most Americans, a recovery is not when the stock market goes up, or when businesses have higher profits. It is when Americans feel secure in their jobs which they don't right now and when the unemployed feel that they can out and find a job, which they can't. We're losing jobs faster than we're creating them right now."


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Poor economics

I have been saying this for months.  Obama is violating economic principles just like carter and hopes the results will be better because of who he is.

Except

He does not "hope" the results will be better.  To the contrary, just as Lenin worked with the Germans as they were killing Russian troops, it is central to leftist philosophy to first totally destroy the country they want to take over.  Reducing the US to a has been, banana republic is exactly what His "O"lliness wants.

The following is attributed to Mao although I'm too lazy to verify:

Mao to a subordinate: "Today I will teach you a lesson in ruling the people comrade.  Tell me, how would you make a cat eat peper?"

First subordinate: "Simple, starve the cat until it had to eat the pepper and beat it daily until it does."

Mao: "No comrade, you must never appear to take from the people that which they need to survive.  This invites counter-revolution."

"Simple, rub the pepper into the cat's anus, then the cat will be very grateful to you for allowing it to lick it off."

Crash the economy, impoverish the people, then see how grateful they are when you give back just enough to keep them alive.  This is His "O"lliness's pepper.

You got it!!

Where have these people been.....it has ALWAYS been the yoyo's plan to bankrupt and destroy America.....that way the illuminati's token whatever it is  can move onward and upward.....AT YOUR EXPENSE!   of course....after he spreads the wealth, from you to him!

~Oh dear

Gee, didn't see that coming.

 

Dissent: It's not just for liberals anymore.-kudzupolitics, USA Today

The Porkulus was nothing

The Porkulus was nothing more than pay back for those that supported Dear Leader's rise to power. It has nothing to do with stimululating the economy.

won't make a dent

The MSM will ignore this, and most Americans will never find out. Obama can play the "blame Bush" game for one more year. Then after GOP makes gains in Congress, it will be their fault for the next two years.

 

I overheard a liberal

I overheard a liberal claiming the market was doing well - we're up to 9500 on the DOW (big deal)....no mention of the rising unemployment numbers, the balooning debt and the coming tripling of that debt.... libs can make themselves believe anything.

Be ready for another drop

Be ready for another drop though...this 9500 and recent rally we have been experiencing is based on smoke and mirrors. Nothing has changed or is physically backing these gains. As soon as that becomes appearant...hold on.

What Blame Game?

Senate must raise debt to cover the deficit.

In order to maintain 9.7% unemployment we must create 100,000 jobs/months. 

Tomorrow's televised speech is to beg congress to save his butt/public image.

JDW

DAILY WAVE

Hoping for change

             Th

             The only thing that was stimulated was the federal debt. The people in washington are complete idiots. Their actions speak more than their words. Without jobs, there is no tax dollars to cover their inept stimulus bill, or their idiotic healthcare bill.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              

It's all about jobs

Great line: "a recovery is not when the stock market goes up, or when businesses have higher profits. It is when Americans feel secure in their jobs ..."

Can't agree more. You can show me all kinds of charts and graphs, and cite all kinds of numbers. Little of that means anything if my job is shaky.

 

Stim $$ = Inefficient

Stim $$ = Inefficient spending = fewer jobs (but graft payola to Dem supporters)

Stim $$ = higher debt = weaker dollar = higher inflation = fewer jobs (Crisis, so Dems can confiscate more of country)

Stim $$ = higher taxes = fewer jobs (more confiscation by Dems)

Stimulus is the most misguided government program outside of the health care bill. Fossil media doesn't know it (mostly) or wants US to fall prey to gubment takeover. Either way, they are dangerous to the success of this country without other outlets for information. Fortunately, without any gubment intervention, we have that balance. Its just they dont like not having a monopoly anymore. Hence the introduction of the unfairness doctrine or backdoor censorship.

 

 

We have nothing but morons

We have nothing but morons in the White House.  And the Moron in Chief has not a clue of how the economy works.  His days as a "community organizer" has only taught him how to take from corporations and hard working Americans.

As we here at NB have been saying since the "porkulus" bill was passed, this will NOT get the economy moving. And as we can see it has had the opposite effect on employment. 

We must start the purge of the idiots in Congress to stop the bleeding.  And in 2012 we can only hope and pray that the moron gets his eviction notice.  Let's see ACORN fight that notice.


The Obama Administration: THE most fiscally irresponsible Administration EVER

I am just surprised that so many conservatives still believe...

...that Comrade Chairman Obama is actually trying to improve the economy, even though it should be crystal clear by now that his actual intentions are just the opposite.

I just hope we can get these frauds the hell out of power before it is too late to rescue the situation, because as it stands now, half of me believes it is already too late to retrieve it.

Can anybody tell me one thing the Obamanistas have done that has ever improved any economy that has ever existed since the beginning of recorded history?

-Dave

Even when the government tries to kiss you, it is just a prelude to a good screwing. -Neal Boortz 

Dave, the agenda of Obama

Dave, the agenda of Obama and his radical thugs is utterly obvious: create chaos in all institutions, get groups squabbling and fighting each other, cripple our economic system with massive debt, demonize opponents, bribe or payoff the national media, etc etc. It's as clear as the lines on our palms. The template has been used many times.

And yet, many don't see it yet. Amazing.

No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.

Cel,

I swear, Obama could hold a presser this afternoon and flat-out admit  that he intends to destroy 100% of America's private sector and turn this country into Cuba, and half the people in this country wouldn't believe him, even though they have been watching him do exactly that for the last eight months.

The really sad part is, a large percentage of those people would be conservatives.

-Dave

Even when the government tries to kiss you, it is just a prelude to a good screwing. -Neal Boortz 

Come on Dave, give the man

Come on Dave, give the man a chance. He's just getting started. It takes more than eight months to destroy a country this big... 

The "Mainstream" Media: By liberals. For liberals.

Dave.. I know. As long as he

Dave.. I know. As long as he smiles when he is saying it, people would think, "That's a great idea!"

Let me share the analytic tool I use to assess Obama's capers: (it's used by historians and political scientists, and I find it useful).

There are three stages, and it could easily be used for anything Obama puts forth as his desired policy:

1. Inquiry. What assumptions is Obama presenting to cause him to insist on a need for a reformed current health care system? (it's awful, people aren't getting medical care, insurance companies are thieves ) What questions is he raising? Who is he describing as the villains?

2. Explanation: How does Obama explain the current state he describes? Who or what caused it? How does he describe his assumptions? What examples does he use? Are they credible? What are his key talking points about how we got "here"? Do they pass the common sense or observation test?

3. Argument. What solutions does he advocate, fight for, demand, etc., to prove his "explanation"? Are they believable? Are they doable? Do they really address the issues raised in stage one? Does he say things like, "The time for arguing is over" (which, of course he does) when his opponents seem to be winning the argument?.

The big questions to ask at all three stages:

1. Is the data correct?
2. Is there a bias toward one position?
3. Do any of the three steps create more destruction or are they believable?
4. Is there an unseen agenda in any of the three steps?
5. Are there logical fallacies in any of the three stages?

And so forth. Works for me because it gives me a thought framework to think through an issue.

No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.

Jamie Colby, Stephen Moore,

Jamie Colby, Stephen Moore, and intelligent conservative conversation. This should serve as a model for more Fox shows... 

The "Mainstream" Media: By liberals. For liberals.

Too much credit given

Geez, I swear, too many people are giving morons and idiots credit when they say that this administration is incompetent and dumb and other various words to describe mental incorrectness.

The attitude that should be taken with regards to these "czars" and other people in the cabinet like the treasury secretary and that so-called economic advisor Romer and the rest is this: It's not what they are saying that's idiotic, it should be closer to "who the hell do you think you people are kidding??"

They know very well what they are doing, it's clear as day as the days go by.  They slip up in their words here and there, but as we are seeing, their actions and intentions are very clear and how they use words to dissuade anything to the contrary.

I give one example, when the unemployment rate was still going up, Romer was discussing it with various stations (Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, CNBC) and she was trying like hell to come across as an idiot that could be described as "Oops, silly me" even though she didn't say that but slipped up when she said it'll get worse before it gets better.  That's when it occurred to me "who the hell did she think she was kidding??"

These people know full well what they are doing.

-Jon

Depressions

The country was on the road to depression in the Carter administration.  Ford had pulled the United States out of the Watergate impeachment caused recession and Cater inherited that recovery. Carter then turned us downward in part by undercutting the Shah and then hyper-stimulated as the election approached to hide the magnitude of the resulting recession with inflation but the stimulus ran out before the election.  <P>Tthe country was firmly on the road to depression when Reagan was elected.  Tip O'Neal delayed the Reagan tax cuts to delay the recovery until after the '82 election but they were working as businesses made spending plans based on the future tax rates just as businesses are making cut backs now based on the future tax hikes Obama has in the works.  <P> An additional problem for Obama is that as of last week the youth unemployment that has been climbing the slop of the Reagan recovery topped the peak of the Carter depression.  It is now the highest since records began in 1948.  We can expect that the slower changing Adult unemployment will follow and be at its highest since FDR before next year’s election. 

 

Unless I'm mistaken, Moore

Unless I'm mistaken, Moore used to be more optimistic in previous interviews and panels I've seen him in.  Perhaps the credentials of the authors of this report are too much for him to blow off.

One of the 34% who thinks George W. Bush was a great President. One of the 86% who wants to bring back the stock and pillory.