The media have lamented use of the word fascism when it has been used to describe moves by the Bush and Obama administrations and the private sector economy.
But when examined from a purely political and economic point-of-view, that is what's going on now according to Thomas Sowell, Stanford University's Hoover Institute Senior Fellow and author of "The Housing Boom and Bust." Sowell appeared on Glenn Beck's May 27 program and was asked if the United States was still a capitalist country.
"Oh, heavens, partially," Sowell replied. "We're not a socialist country, because the socialists believe in government ownership of the means of production. But, the fascists believe that the government should have private ownership and the politicians should tell people how to run the businesses. So that's the route we seem to be going."
A textbook definition explains that fascism embodied corporatism, which is an economic structure controlled by the government. Sowell said that's exactly what is happening in some sectors of the U.S. economy:
Beck: So what route is that again?
Sowell: That the private people still own the businesses but the politicians tell them what to do.
Beck: Right, but isn't that, I'm trying to remember, that's uh...
Sowell: That's fascism.
Beck: Yes, I was going to say, I knew it was a bad one. And I was going to say, I think that's fascism. Yeah. OK. Well you're a crazy lunatic. Why would you say we're going down a fascist road? Um, go ahead.
Sowell: Only because we are.
Sowell argued it would take a "calamity" for people to realize that fascism is taking place - the issue being just how big it would be before the public could connect the dots.
"Well to do that, they would have to think," Sowell explained. "And this whole personality cult has caught on in such a way that it is going to be a while before people start thinking. It is a question of how big of a calamity is it gonna take before they snap out of it."
The Stanford University economist chastised President Barack Obama's administration for leading the United States down this path economically and noted it would have an impact on the country's foreign policy.
"Gosh, I hate to make predictions but I think the economy is, is gonna be permanently changed for the worse," Sowell said. "I think our foreign policy is gonna lead to changes that will be definitely for the worse, particularly if we drift into a nuclear Iran, which I gather that's what the administration is doing."
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
→ Thank you Jeff
May 28, 2009 - 10:55 ET by Cool ArrowAs I posted yesterday.
Beck had Sowell cracking up with his comment on how to correct the economy.
If this hits the lamestream
May 28, 2009 - 11:02 ET by HockeyKidIf this hits the lamestream media, we'll be hearing about how Sowell isn't "authentically black".
"Beauty is only skin deep, but liberal's to the bone." - me
TAXZILLA SOON UNLEASHED
May 28, 2009 - 11:07 ET by reelman46OBAMA-DEMS: TAXZILLA SOON UNLEASHED
As
the 2009 late spring economy struggles to get back some mojo (despite
gov-meant meddling) some are now saying positive things.
This may be to give Obama insulation from having to blame Bush all summer and fall…its getting very lame.
The joker in the deck is that Obama (with his tax cheat staffers) is
working on MAJOR taxes on the top half of taxpayers plus business and
also the “cap and trade” will stagger the economy. What about the
trillion borrowed for the so-called STIM? What about the demo budget
that 3x the nation’s debt? You really think the liberal gov-meant can
run national health care? You mean like they run Social Security,
Medicare and so on?
Not so fast on the “recovery thing”. Ways direct and indirect will
be found the next few months to get into your wallet, to take more for
all the Obama overspending-borrowing that socialists require. The Dow
will get staggered back to the floor by these radical socialist
policies just about the time it gets back to its knees.
*****
DEMS TO CRUSH DOW RALLY WITH $170 BILLION OF NEW TAXES TO OVERHAUL HEALTH CARE…
Budget deficit to top $1.8 trillion; 4 times 2008’s record…Government borrowing 50 cents for every dollar it spends…
Weak tax receipts…
*****
J. Carter Obama is here to stay way past this summer…plan
accordingly…maybe get a gov-meant job…they are always hiring, always
growing.
Doug Schexnayder, Ph.D. (theconservativecrawfish)
→ A deep VAT
May 28, 2009 - 11:15 ET by Cool ArrowThe proposed Value Added Tax, proposed by Rah Emanuel's brother Zeke, is supposedly 10%, but hidden taxes inside the VAT will likely raise it to 25%
And of course, the poor get hit hardest. After following Master Hussein into the wilderness, they will eat the sand he feeds them.
...
May 28, 2009 - 11:22 ET by Jack Bauer...
cool -- remember that in
May 28, 2009 - 11:21 ET by Jack Bauercool -- remember that in the EU, VAT is added to 99% of ALL goods -- and SERVICES.
What's a service --mmm, your Accountant. Tax Advisor. Motor Mechanic. Plumber. Doctor. I think it's over 20% is most EU countries. 15% in the UK.
→ Can't wait
May 28, 2009 - 11:25 ET by Cool ArrowThis should help automobile sales, since people will naturally, out of a sense of patriotism, embrace the thought of an extra $3,000 added to the cost.
hay NBers, VAT will be ADDED to the IRS taxes too..
May 28, 2009 - 14:03 ET by upcountrywaterNo mention of removing the IRS...So it's TAX time squared.
Reagan VS Carter and 0bama
Exactly, A national sales
May 29, 2009 - 11:25 ET by SnappyExactly, A national sales tax was run up the flagpole as a possible ALTERNATIVE to the Income Tax. However since it was brought up it more than likely will now be added in addition to the Federal Income Tax. And this is just one of the up front out it the open ideas.
It might be time for some sort of grassroots tax protest movement to form....ohhh wait, that will never fly they will just be branded as ignorant racists.
Sowell
May 28, 2009 - 11:27 ET by cvgbuckeyeI particularly enjoyed Mr. Sowell's comment about Sotomayor's blatant racism. He said something to the effect that racism has never worked and with today's liberal racism, racism is only operating "under new management".
One thing bothers me though and it bothered me considerably during this interview. Glenn had one of the most articulate and intelligent people for Conservatism on his show and then Glenn did about 90% of the talking. He usually does'nt do this but he did this time.
It is particularly bothersome to me with Bill O'Reilly. Especially so when he has someone like Karl Rove on, who is extremely intelligent and has so much that is interesting to add. O'Reilly does not border on rudeness by constantly interupting people like him, he blatantly crosses the line. You can really see the frusration in people's faces when he does this.
These are people who have had the attentive ear of presidents and the most powerful people in history. But O'Reilly cuts them off in mid-sentence. I think if he just watched himself on tape and stepped back for a moment to think, I doubt it but he might become embarrassed.
If I was someone like Rove, I would meet with him prior to a show and demand that he allow me to finish a thought or I would no longer appear.
Cvgbuckeye...
May 28, 2009 - 12:37 ET by Georgia GirlI have to agree on O'Reilly interrupting, and his personality can grate on some. There have been many times that I have been intensely interested in what a guest has to say -- and he seemed to cut them off at the most important part. I thought he had gotten a little better in that regard, but maybe not. The thing that keeps me coming back is that I do feel he often stands firm on rooting out unfairness & will do the harder hitting investigative pieces that others won't touch -- and many of them are liberal hijinks issues. And frankly, I'm a little desperate for media that isn't constant leftist spin and propoganda. *_*
Re BOR
May 28, 2009 - 12:56 ET by slickwillie2001Agree on BOR. I watch for the guests, not for BOR. He's really not all that bright and he's no conservative. He's more a Lou Dobbs-style populist. He interrupts Dennis Miller as well when he is on one of his ranting rolls. Memo to BOR -you're not funny, Miller is. Shut the hell up and let him do his thing.
Slick...
May 28, 2009 - 13:09 ET by Georgia GirlI love "Miller Time." In addition to being darn funny, Miller often has great insight. Then other times, Dennis is just off on a spastic comedic tangent and no more -- but it's great fun. ^_^
I think BOR actually respects Miller and appreciates his take, but he does interrupt him too much. There are times when they are both cracking up and so into the segment that all I have to do is squint if I want to picture two junior high boys. Those times probably crack me up even more than the rest. ;)
BOR and Dennis Miller
May 29, 2009 - 10:51 ET by mikebromoDennis Miller was on Wensday night and started out with a Sotomayor joke. BOR quickly changed the topic to a reality show on the TLC channel, and then American Idol. Miller looked confused and was obvious he wanted to critic Sotomayor and North Korea. Doesn't O'Rielly know that Miller's comedy is based on political satire? BOR should ask the dizzy blonde that says she's related to President Hoover the culture questions about reality TV.
Dizzy Blondes
May 29, 2009 - 10:54 ET by Sergeant ROCKBut she's so adorable.. well, at least until she opines on something.
"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Re Cap & Steal
May 28, 2009 - 12:26 ET by slickwillie2001An effort in Congress to allow power companies and others to show the Cap & Trade 'taxes' on their customers' power bills is being fought by democratics. The democratics don't want Americans to realize they have been taxed, they want to blame it on those greedy power companies: Support the Cap & Trade Disclosure Act: http://michellemalkin.com
No one in MSM could handle
May 28, 2009 - 20:35 ET by GregENo one in MSM could handle Sowell in a one on one discussion. Most would become so frustrated they'd go off topic almost immediately.
GregE... Ditto. Doubling
May 28, 2009 - 20:59 ET by bigtimerGregE...
Ditto.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
Libs always call conservatives fascists! lol
May 28, 2009 - 11:27 ET by jefflebowskiLibs always call conservatives fascists or Nazis...they just don't know what the words mean! We are seeing fascism under Hussein Hopenchange. It must be stopped. Rid Republicans of RINOs and elect conservatives to put the brakes on this train wreck!!! Attend your local July 4 tea party!
Angry White Dude
www.angrywhitedude.c...
road to facism
May 28, 2009 - 11:29 ET by olddog3006I just finished reading Richard J Evans "The Coming of the Third Reich", the 1st of three books on the Nazi regime in Germany. It documents the methods in which Hitler came into power after the fall of the Weimer Republic.
The parallels with our present administration is frightening. Thomas Sowell is spot on. I don't see anything or anyone on the horizon that will stop this.
...
May 28, 2009 - 16:52 ET by ImAllRightHitler was a Totalitarian, FYI.
And yes, there is a difference. They're close, but without that link bringin them together, they are two seperate means.
However, I agree with Sowell's point based on an economic level.
"Democracy is worth dying for, because it's the most deeply honorable form of government ever devised by man." - Ronald Reagan
I wasn't referring to
May 28, 2009 - 20:37 ET by olddog3006I wasn't referring to Hitler, just the means in which he came to power. With the dems running Congress and rubberstamping almost everything Obama wants, is it too far a stretch to think he sees himself as a dictator? Would it be impossible to believe that if the US had another serious terrorist attack before the next Presidential election that Obama would call off that election for national security reasons?
Am I paranoid? You bet! Listening to my 85 year old father who grew up in Nazi Germany tell me he's glad to be at the end of his life because he sees that happening all over again here.
→ Herald to Galactus
May 28, 2009 - 21:04 ET by Cool ArrowWe're there. Hitler rose as a result of the punitive nature of WWI reparations creating the Weimer Republic.
Obama can take comfort that he's the Silver Surfer scouting out a planet Galactus can devour.
I can't stand O'Reilly
May 28, 2009 - 12:24 ET by SemusI can't stand O'Reilly either.
I can't stand O'Reilly
May 28, 2009 - 12:29 ET by SemusI can't stand O'Reilly either.
I don't understand--
May 28, 2009 - 12:42 ET by misterbill"nevert mind-- I reread and found the train of thought. Now if you will be patient, I will try to board the train.,
Semus
May 28, 2009 - 12:59 ET by cvgbuckeyeI'm not saying that I cannot stand O'Reilly. He does irritate me with the way that he interupts some guests whose jock straps he could not carry. Additionally, he sometimes wears me out by feigning the ocassional drift towards the middle to pander to what he thinks is a small to medium sized center/left segment of his audience. I guess with his ratings, he is doing something right; also by the fact that he keeps the lefties riled.
Semus; try maintaining the philosophy of "The enemy of my enemy is my friend".
semus cvg
May 28, 2009 - 13:40 ET by misterbill"The enemy of my enemy is my friend".
An excellent thought to keep in mind.
Very important too, is that, "The friend of my enemy is my enemy."
Misterbill...
May 28, 2009 - 14:19 ET by Georgia GirlAnd don't forget: the children of our parents are ourselves...and the neighbor of my neighbor is me.
[Hee hee. Okay, sorry -- losing focus. I'm up to my neck in freelance work, and this is my stress break.] ;)
GG-
May 28, 2009 - 21:09 ET by misterbillI know what is stressing you--it's the 3-2-1 grading system the Cobb County School District is implementing.
Misterbill...
May 29, 2009 - 07:58 ET by Georgia GirlTried a funny link here -- but as per usual, my computer skills are stellar. ^_^
I have to take issue with Sowell
May 28, 2009 - 13:36 ET by danebramageWhile Sowell and that textbook account may be technically correct, they don't reflect the way the words "socialist" and "fascist" have actually been used for the last several decades. The textbook says that Socialism is a system wherein the means of production are owned by the government. Yet we call Sweden a socialist country and only 1/4 of its industry is government owned. The rest is privately owned and government directed. So with 3/4 government directed and only 1/4 government owned, why don't we call Sweden, on balance, a Fascist government, if Fascism refers to a system in which the government doesn't own but merely directs industry?
The answer is that, no matter what its actual origin, the word "socialism" has come over time to refer in the popular mind to the system that Sowell is calling "fascism." Fascism, on the other hand, is taken to refer to a socialist system, but one with a different aim than pure socialism. Rather than seeking economic justice (or rather what Marx mistakenly believed to be economic justice) the fascist typically seeks some nationalistic end, such as the military domination of his neighbors.
Actual evidence that this is the case can be found in the fact that "Nazi" in "Nazi Party" stood for "National Socialist." Now, according to the definitions given by Sowell and company, no system could ever be both socialist and fascist, so obviously the Nazis understood socialism to be something other than what Sowell is saying as well.
The fact is that the terms break down this way in the general understanding today: "Communism" is a system in which the means of production are owned by the state. "Socialism" is a system in which the means of production are all or mostly privately owned but directed by the state. And "Fascism" is nothing but a species of Socialism, in which industry is privately-owned and government-directed, but not for the purpose of economic equality as it is with pure socialism.
The upshot of all this is that I think we've been correct in referring to Obama's plans up 'til now as socialist in nature, not fascist. He's following the original Marxist blueprint of radical egalitarianism (as opposed to having some nationalistic goal), but does not really seek to own industry; he simply wants to direct it. I think the label "Fascist," which is associated very strongly with Hitler in most people's minds, will only cause us trouble if we try to apply it to an American President's policies. We will sound just as fanatical and ridiculous as the Left has for the last eight years in calling President Bush a fascist.
→ danebramage
May 28, 2009 - 13:38 ET by Cool ArrowSounds like the "living document" offense the liberals make on the Constitution.
??
May 28, 2009 - 13:41 ET by danebramageI don't get your point. We're not talking about law here.
→ Easy there BD
May 28, 2009 - 13:46 ET by Cool ArrowI'm just making note of your observation that word meanings are changing.
In much the same way, "pursuit of happiness" has come to mean "sucking babies through a tube.
Yep. True dat. My point
May 28, 2009 - 13:55 ET by danebramageYep. True dat.
My point in a nutshell is that while Sowell is right, he's right based upon a 1920s and '30s understanding of the words "socialist" and "fascist." And in using those definitions, he would seem to imply that we should be calling Obama's policies "fascistic." My argument is that that would be a mistake, because people today don't understand the words in the same way the people who coined them did. That's all :)
Words have meanings and
May 28, 2009 - 14:53 ET by Ten7sWords have meanings and those meanings don't change just b/c ignorant people don't understand them and use them incorrectly.
→ Words/Meanings
May 28, 2009 - 15:05 ET by Cool ArrowThe original meaning of husband comes from Vikings who found wives and could no longer go out on rape and pillage escapades.
They were referred to as "house-bound", or "husband"
I guess that's not a very good example of meanings changing.
Is that a joke or are you
May 28, 2009 - 15:12 ET by Ten7sIs that a joke or are you really that obtuse?
Cool NEVER jokes... You
May 28, 2009 - 15:20 ET by dvdaughtryCool NEVER jokes...
You trying to say Jesus Christ can't hit a curveball?
I'm not familiar w/ him, so
May 28, 2009 - 15:28 ET by Ten7sI'm not familiar w/ him, so I didn't know. Thanks for answering my question; it lets me know how to respond (or probably not respond) in the future.
→ Mostly true
May 28, 2009 - 16:24 ET by Cool ArrowBut close enough.
Once again this evening...
May 28, 2009 - 22:58 ET by bigtimerOnce again this evening... thanks CA.
I always learn something new and interesting from others on this site everyday...one of the main reasons I have always loved it.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
Actually, language changes
May 28, 2009 - 15:15 ET by balboaActually, language changes all the time.
Yes but if you call Obama's
May 28, 2009 - 20:40 ET by GregEYes but if you call Obama's ways and ideas socialist, facist, or any other negative "ist" then it's only because you are a rac...ist.
After all, there is no other possible reason to critique the annointed one. No one could possibly disagree with him, therefore the only conclusion is, people actually don't disagree, they're just racists.
"I think the label
May 28, 2009 - 22:47 ET by ckc1227"I think the label "Fascist," which is associated very strongly with Hitler in most people's minds, will only cause us trouble if we try to apply it to an American President's policies.We will sound just as fanatical and ridiculous as the Left has for the last eight years in calling President Bush a fascist."
Yeah, this fanatical and ridiculous behavior has really held the Left back since 2006, lol.
People think fascist means
May 29, 2009 - 12:11 ET by Conservative VoicePeople think fascist means conservative...so the more people we educate that our country is becomming fascist is a good thing.
I can see the confusion though, Fascists are Socialist...the difference between Communism and Socialism is Murder versus Robbery.
I agree with T.S.
May 29, 2009 - 00:52 ET by caiobabeIn fact, I have always agreed with this man. He has always been one of the most intellectual minds that this country has to offer.
Between Drs. Sowell and Walter Williams...
May 29, 2009 - 12:00 ET by gopcongressIf we had Dr. Sowell and Dr. Walter Williams in government, they could take care of Commerce and Treasury all by themselves, and still have time to sub for Rush every Christmas.
_____________________
Moderate... Democrat... Liberal... Progressive... Socialist... Communist—The progression is clear as day.