Nationalization has its consequences. Just note the rhetoric coming from some prominent voices on the left.
The government's foray into offering services normally provided by the private sector by bailing out aging mortgage giants gives it the power to implement "green" building requirements, according to New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman.
He suggested Sept. 23 that any construction financed by government-funded mortgages should be certified "green" according to the standards of the Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design (LEED) Green Building Rating System.
"If we're going to be in the mortgage business as a government, then every government-funded mortgage - at least for a new building - means that building has to be at least Silver LEED certified, okay?" Friedman said at the Sixth & I Synagogue in Washington, D.C. He appeared to promote his new book, "Hot, Flat, and Crowded: Why We Need a Green Revolution--and How It Can Renew America."
"This is critical," Friedman said. "The IT revolution was a bubble. But that bubble, through amazing innovation, left us with the Internet superhighway. The railroad revolution was a bubble and it left us with a country knit together by railroads. This financial revolution is a bubble and is leaving us with dead derivatives. We cannot afford to use this $700 billion for anything other than a full-blown transformation."
Friedman also brought up the possibility of compelling big three automakers currently seeking a bailout - Ford (NYSE:F), General Motors (NYSE:GM) and Chrysler (NYSE:DAI) - to build cars that suit the green agenda.
But Friedman's recommendations don't always benefit society. On ABC's "Good Morning America" on March 9, 2006, he boldly announced his preference for the future of U.S. energy policy. But once his scenario came to fruition, it had severe negative consequences.
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Friedman is so
September 24, 2008 - 14:14 ET by NewsbusterbrownFriedman is so brilliant!!!!!!
“There are no easy answers' but there are simple answers. We must have the courage to do what we know is morally right.” - Ronald Reagan (1964 Republican Convention)
The Government Shouldn't Bail them out at all
September 24, 2008 - 14:27 ET by PopularTechWe are currently experiencing a housing bubble that has artificially inflated home prices by 38-43% due to government interference in the housing market and government induced bad credit policies. That means homes have been artifically inflated by $12 Trillion dollars. People have now reach their credit limit and it is now impossible to stop these home prices from falling. Buying these overpriced assets with billions in tax payer money will only cause hyperinflation and put the tax payer at risk for other's bad decisions and investments. Increasing credit limits to people who cannot pay their debts now will only make the problem worse not better. The housing market needs to stabilize itself and that means falling home prices to a market acceptable level.
The Idiocy of Wall Street: Applauding Its Own Demise (Ludwig Von Mises Institute)
Mathematics 101
September 24, 2008 - 14:50 ET by UtherpendBy all means, lets add another 50% in cost to houses that are already over priced and mortage inflated. Only the government could take a lucrative business and make it 10 times worse while forcing the American people to pay for it.
First off, I think we need
September 24, 2008 - 15:00 ET by ApacheFirst off, I think we need this bailout. I also agree that it is a bad deal. The politicians got us into this mess via Fannie and Freddie and forcing banks to deal with people who should have never received the loans. So the government must bail out AIG and others because government failed them. The politicians and the people who elected them need to eat the crap they tried to force down the throats of Wall Street. We don't have the luxury of Friedmans green nonsense or any Pelosi BS. When the economy tanks, you can kiss Green hypocrisy and the global warming religion good bye because nobody will give a rats ass. Real problems will be all anyone will care about. Sure there is a better option than the bailout but the dim, i mean Dem congress headed by pelosi and fluffed by the likes of friedman would never go for it due to its heavy reliance on capitalism and the private sector. So we need an option that we can move past even the dumbest in Washington and that is the bailout plan.
Do you understand what Inflation is? Are you now a Socialist?
September 24, 2008 - 15:01 ET by PopularTechDo you have any idea what inflation is? Please explain how buying worthless realestate assets at above market prices with tax payer money helps anyone but the banks that made these bad investments?.
Do you now support Socialism?
That's not exactly true
September 24, 2008 - 15:19 ET by Prester JohnThe whole idea is to buy these assets at pennies on the dollar which the institutions should be more than happy to agree to since they just want to get this crap off their books.
Now whether or not the govt will be able to sell these assets at a profit is another question, but presumably all this paper does in fact have a real asset attached to it and as the real estate market comes back (which is happening in northern Virginia) the paper will become more valuable.
Not arguing whether it is good or bad, and I certainly have no sympathy for the companies who got us into this mess, just saying what the theory is behind it.
The Real Estate Market is NOT coming back
September 24, 2008 - 15:51 ET by PopularTechThat is delusional: Housing Bubble Future Projections
Interesting chart
September 24, 2008 - 22:23 ET by Indiana JoeA couple thoughts on it:
The housing "bubble" was QUITE a run-up, wasn't it? I mean, I know it was ridiculous, but I had no idea how insane it was. Obviously, real estate has been way over-valued, and a correction was inevitable.
It looks like the projected market will stabilize not too far from the green "trend" line. Of course, being a projection, it's obviously not guaranteed... either way.
Land will always be worth something. After all, they're not making anymore of it.
As much as I'm generally a free-marketer, there are times when it's not enough. Especially when a market has been artificially inflated by government interference, I see nothing outlandish with a situation-specific government correction.
And don't let it happen again.
Just MHO. I don't pretend to be an economic whiz.
"... smells like... victory." - Robert Duvall
The road was paved well
September 24, 2008 - 15:20 ET by ApacheThe road was paved well before this plan. We are looking at a second great depression if the government doesn't buy what it forced down our throats. We should have been on top of it then. Some were (McCain was one) and can now only say "told you so". If we don't buy the worthless paper then we won't have any tax payer money to protect. Companies won't be able to borrow and people will stop getting paid. So the socialism was voted in years ago. Now we need to figure out a way to get out of it without going to hell and back. You could remove capital gains tax, remove tax on any income increase from last year, let anyone and everyone drill where they can, and give tax credit for the purchase of new industrial equipment and that would give us a better shot in the arm. But then look at the type of people you have in congress. We will be waiting around the block for milk and bread before those idiots do that.
The Bailout will cause a depression
September 24, 2008 - 15:56 ET by PopularTechYou cannot fight a credit-related housing bubble by getting people further into debt, all this bailout will do is delay the inevitable and it will crash harder. Having a recession now is better then pumping up the bubble bigger.
How to Avoid Another Depression (Ludwig Von Mises Institute)
"If we want to avoid the next great depression, all such government interventions should cease. The Treasury Department should revise their recent action and turn their proposed conservatorship of Fannie and Freddie into a bankruptcy receivership that would ultimately liquidate the corporation and their liabilities. Meanwhile the Fed should announce its intent to stop Term Auction Facilities and close the discount window to all but its traditional customers. To reduce the negative impact of the recession, government should cease foreign hostilities, reduce military spending, balance the budget, and cut taxes and regulations."
The money doesn't go to
September 24, 2008 - 19:42 ET by ApacheThe money doesn't go to protect their debt. It goes to the banks that have basically lost that money already. I think it is a little late to say "we need to teach these people a lesson by gosh". That’s just populist rhetoric. The ones who should be taught a lesson have either skipped town or are in congress and won't take responsibility. Its not the housing bubble that the plan will protect against. It is the bigger problem of a run on the banks that will build massive momentum behind it.
Apache.. Bingo! "America
September 24, 2008 - 19:45 ET by bigtimerApache..
Bingo!
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
Bingo - You have no idea what inflation is
September 24, 2008 - 20:01 ET by PopularTechSocialize losses and stick us with inflation, fanboy up!
It has nothing to do with populism you moron
September 24, 2008 - 20:00 ET by PopularTechThese banks lost money from bad investments and that is THEIR FAULT, not mine. Of course it is going to cause a run on bad banks with major MBS investmenst. Any bank in the U.S. that owns worthless mortgage securities have to take the loss - too bad. The banks that did not will be fine. So you accept socializing losses? Maybe the problem is the U.S. banking system is worthless, we know the investment banks are.
You can insult me if you
September 24, 2008 - 22:01 ET by ApacheYou can insult me if you want but the truth is it is your fault. It's my fault. It is the fault of everyone who votes. While individually we probably made different choices, collectively we decided we could give ourselves gifts and we elected people who promised to make it happen. Now we need to eat it. It is said 'a democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury'. Well we basically did that and used Freddie and Fannie to deliver them which had a viral effect on Wall Street. My home loan is from a bank that specializes in very low interest rates for those who are very low risk. They will survive without any help unless even those who are very low risk are suddenly out of a job because of actions higher up the chain. Companies that can't borrow can become customers who can't pay companies who in turn can't pay employees who then can't pay off loans. New companies can't start because they can't get loans. The people and even many of the banks that will suffer will be the result of a trickle down effect and may have had no hand or choice in the mess. Only the government can buy up that much bad paper and sit on it long enough to wait for it to turn around. If they do not, the economy comes to a halt. The socialization already occurred but when times were good, nobody cared. Now when we get the check we want to cry about it. We can certainly hope that we can save the economy, learn from how we almost lost it, and remove the virus. Or we can let the economy tank and we all get beaten over the head for the actions of a few. You and me can then get in a shoving match in the bread line.
Very well stated, Apache
September 24, 2008 - 22:27 ET by Indiana JoeI think you've given the most lucid, sensible description of the problem I've yet heard. Of course, I know some here won't agree with that (wink,wink). But this bed was made long ago. And now the chickens are coming home to roost (I love mixing metaphors!). Like the Fram filter guy used to say, "You can pay me now, or you can pay me later."
Very cogent and persuasive argument. Kudos.
"... smells like... victory." - Robert Duvall
The Truth is it has nothing to do with me
September 25, 2008 - 00:53 ET by PopularTechI have never voted for anyone with the intention of getting ANY gifts nor have taken out any bad loans.
Credit is not going to disappear it is simply going to become more responsible. Why would a stable bank stop loaning money to a responsible low risk borrower when they make money on the interest? It doesn't make any sense and they are trying to scare everyone to bailout these last two investment banks.
This only affects poorly run companies and high risk borrowers.
The economy can save itself.
Paulson is trying to save Goldman Sachs
September 24, 2008 - 20:21 ET by PopularTechThis isn't rocket science, all these banks who invested in worthless MBS are going down.
Bank of America: 'Paulson Plan Benefits Mostly Goldman, Morgan' (Seeking Alpha)
Speaking of "green", I heard the most fascinating GM ad today
September 24, 2008 - 15:13 ET by Prester JohnIt was talking about how if everyone on the country just had the right tire pressure we could save 3% on fuel usage.
Hmmmm, now where have we heard that before?
I was expecting them to say GM was giving away free tire gauges on all new auto sales but instead they said new cars will have some sort of built in tire guage on the dash to let you know when it's time to air it up.
Sure.. bailout should have strings attached
September 24, 2008 - 15:13 ET by Gary HallSure.. bailout should have strings attached.
If it doesn't work, they should have these folks pay for it.
How the Democrats Created the Financial Crisis - Bloomberg
Nov. 3, 2000 - HUD ANNOUNCES NEW REGULATIONS TO PROVIDE $2.4 TRILLION IN MORTGAGES FOR AFFORDABLE HOUSING FOR 28.1 MILLION FAMILIES
Angelo's Friends - slide show
Angelo's Many "Friends"
I'm Your Puppet!
September 24, 2008 - 15:39 ET by CrashHere are my strings:
1/ Reinstate the Glass-Segall Act
2/ Repeal the income tax and corporate tax. Simplify the tax code. No write offs ... no pay, no play.
3/ Lock mortgage interest rates in at 3% (2% for veterans) on all primary single family houses for US citizens only.
4/ Force a reimbursement on all frivolous bonuses obtained by officers who dragged their companies down. The captain sinks with the ship.
5/ Get rid of Congressional pensions and healthcare retirement plans. If they want a pension get a real job.
6/ Reform Social Security and impose a forced savings retirement plan (for morons).
I like it!
September 24, 2008 - 19:02 ET by stratmanNumber 5 gave me a good laugh.
Thanks!
Maybe republican are finally growing a spine?
September 24, 2008 - 17:53 ET by RESTLESS 1It seems this bailout mess is having trouble getting needed repub. support. Maybe, just maybe, cooler heads will prevail, and this bullshit bailout will never see the light of day? One can hope.
Of course, the scary part is, the koskids agree with us. Of course, that may only be because they called the "Bush" bailout plan.
Do you support the Bush administration's bailout plan?
Yes!
0%
113 votes
Leaning yes
4%
540 votes
Not sure/No opinion
4%
653 votes
Leaning no
24%
3324 votes
No!
65%
8743 votes
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Here's something else I am
September 24, 2008 - 19:00 ET by bigtimerHere's something else I am sure brain-fried Friedman would agree with too speaking of "green".
Something that started in Pa. by the way...
Lovely isn't it?
Be afraid...very afraid.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
Who is this guy?
September 24, 2008 - 21:27 ET by RackieSomewhere there is a pedestal missing it's freakin' genius.