Rachel Maddow at Most Shameless: Claims GOP Congressman 'Received Advance Notice' of Oklahoma City Bombing
"Lean Forward," MSNBC's new slogan suggests. The better to stick a shiv in your opponent's back.
Ethics-averse Rachel Maddow did exactly that on her MSNBC show last night. After disparaging Republican candidates for their gall in criticizing reckless federal spending and government-controlled health care, Maddow made this jaw-dropper of a claim --
MADDOW: Yes, this has happened to a smaller degree before. In 1994, in the first mid-term election after the last Democratic president was elected, we got a slate of candidates that included Helen Chenoweth of Idaho and Steve Stockman of Texas. These two were so close to the militia movement in this country that Mr. Stockman actually received advance notice that the Oklahoma City bombing was going to happen.
... and by that, Maddow implies, Stockman consigned 168 innocent people to death. Except that Stockman received no such prior, uh, "notice" (note how Maddow did not say "warning") , which explains why Maddow neglected to attribute this outlandish assertion to a source, any source.
Problem is, she'd have trouble doing so beyond left-wing fever swamps comparable to MSNBC. A perfunctory search through Google quickly reveals evidence refuting Maddow's claim.
For example, on April 25, 1995, six days after the destruction of the Murrah federal building, the Dallas Morning News ran this story under the headline, "Fax referring to bombing sent by ex-GOP Texas official, party aide says" --
Mr. Stockman on Sunday denied reports that his office passed the fax to the National Rifle Association and failed to give it to the FBI. Yesterday he released a letter to the FBI confirming his version of events.
Mr. Stockman also said that a staff member had given the fax to the NRA without his permission. He said he was considering whether to discipline the aide.
Telephone toll records indicate that the fax was sent about 50 minutes after the bombing, a federal official said.
According to the Morning News, a hand-written message on the fax read, "First update. Bldg 7 to 10 floors only. Military people on scene -- BATF/FBI. Bomb threat received last week. Perpetrator unknown at this time. Oklahoma." The machine that sent the fax to Stockman stamped "Wolverine" at the top of the page, the Morning News reported.
That Stockman received the fax after the bombing was also reported in a June 22, 1995 column in the Houston Press by Jim Simmon, titled "God, Guns and Kombucha: Is Steve Stockman a committed crackpot, or just a hapless goofball?"As its headline suggests, this was hardly a puff piece favorable toward Stockman. Nonetheless, Simmon wrote --
Contrary to suggestions in some earlier reports, Stockman's office had received the fax after the bombing and promptly passed it on to the FBI. (Ironically, the initial misunderstanding about the fax was propagated by the National Rifle Association, Stockman's chief patron.)
I'll venture a guess that self-proclaimed geek Maddow not only has access to computers, but that those computers are connected to the Internet -- leading to all sorts of wondrous possible discoveries (and, alas, inconvenient facts), assuming a person is inclined to look.
Maddow's mention of late congresswoman Helen Chenoweth-Hage is even more gratuitous than her attempt at character assassination of Stockman. Chenoweth and Stockman "were so close to the militia movement," Maddow says, that he, Stockman, but not she, Chenoweth, received "advance notice" of the bombing. Chenoweth-Hage, killed in a 2006 car accident, is no longer able to defend herself. Maddow didn't give Stockman the chance.
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Comments
As the election gets very
Submitted by MidAmerica on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 7:31pm.
As the election gets very close there may be a virtual volcano explosion of damning stories from the dem media mouthpieces because there won't be time to refute them all before the election.
It'll be the Dan Rather National Guard fraud attempt on steroids.
Hey, really...
Submitted by retrocon on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 7:32pm.
I take issue with this attack on Rachel!
Since when did facts have anything, what-so-ever to do with reporting at MSNBC? Really, what's the problem here?
Maddow crying wolf...
Submitted by adamsmith on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 7:23am.
That's now a big problem for MSNBC. Maddow along with Olbergoebbels and Psycho Ed Schultz have cried wolf so many times, spun stories so hard, and outright lied for their Dear Leader that no one can believe ANYTHING they say anymore. That arm of the White House(Maddow and Olbergoebbels were both summoned for an audience with Dear Leader) is simply without any credibility at all, unless you're a wacked out Communist from the DailyKos-Huffington side ot things. Facts mean nothing to these "journOlists". Maddow in particular sees the world through a prism of an angry college lesbian. She's never grown up.....as with all hardcore Socialist Statists. They never grew up....Think Bill Maher, Michael Moore, Joy Behar, David Letterman, Jon Stewart, and the list goes on. Not only are their politics juvenile and superficially thought out, they are still juvenile themselves.....
How dare SHE/He do this...you
Submitted by bigtimer on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 7:36pm.
How dare SHE/He do this...you have no idea how angry I am...
Chenowith was the Angel of the West, I miss her dearly, may she RIP.
Maddow needs to be taken down for this BS...I also recommend she read 'The Third Terrorist' by Jayna Davis...riveting fact-filled book..and she'd better be looking at Reno/Clintoon administration.
Maddow is pure filth...despicable soulless b!tch.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
Perfect description of
Submitted by Boudin on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 7:41pm.
Oberdud's little brother
Boudin... Yep...he groomed
Submitted by bigtimer on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 7:49pm.
Boudin...
Yep...he groomed her/him for her show, she/he's made Bath-Tub Boy proud...his Rubber-Ducky too.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
You nailed it, bt....
Submitted by motherbelt on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 6:32am.
I think "soulless" fits her even better than "shameless."
These two were so close to the militia movement in this country that Mr. Stockman actually received advance notice that the Oklahoma City bombing was going to happen.
Ponder that for a moment: THESE TWO were so close to the militia movement that MR. STOCKMAN..... Slander by coincidence of being elected at the same time as Stockman. Nice move, Rach. MSNBC has now scraped a hole in the bottom of the barrell and is digging underneath. And Rachel has the shovel marks on her to prove it. ** This comment updated 10/20, 06:32Haven't pulled this one out
Submitted by bkeyser on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 7:38pm.
Haven't pulled this one out in a while- here's Mr. Maddow arriving to the set.
You have to wonder what kind of idiot watches that show for anything other than self-abuse.
bk... OMG...how perfect is
Submitted by bigtimer on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 7:46pm.
bk...
OMG...how perfect is that...you have no idea hard I'm laughing...I'm passing this on soon.
TY!
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
Hmmmm. Unicorn, eh?
Submitted by CO2Maker on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 8:22pm.
How many batteries does that baby need?
CO2
Submitted by bkeyser on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 9:17pm.
I'm pretty sure that's a gelding...
I'm talking about the horny part
Submitted by CO2Maker on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 9:30pm.
You're talking about gelding the Rachel. ;-)
Oh, you meant...
Submitted by bkeyser on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 9:42pm.
the horsey on the bottom. Yes. I was confused. The gelding is the manly looking thing in white.
Rachel's picture...
Submitted by adamsmith on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 7:27am.
That's as truthful as it gets. That's how he/she looks in her own dreams, except you need to add twenty lipstick lesbians oooing and ahhhing around the horse. Or does he/she like the Butch variety?
"Lean forward"
Submitted by CO2Maker on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 7:43pm.
ISn't that what you do when you want to pass gas and you don't want anybody else in the room to hear?
OMG! That's hysterical! You
Submitted by Van Halen on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 8:10pm.
OMG! That's hysterical! You owe me a new computer monitor! Old one covered in coffee.
Now I can smell the
Submitted by Free Stinker on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 7:47pm.
Now I can smell the fear.
Liberals are running scared and it's great! And the more afraid they become, the crazier they act, driving more voters away from them.
/// Sarah Palin Fan since July 11, 2007 /// خال
Nope, that's not fear you smell.
Submitted by CO2Maker on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 8:23pm.
See above. They're leaning forward.
Ensign Wesley Crusher...
Submitted by bigdaddy on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 7:57pm.
....flunked out of Star Fleet Academy...
Madcow has not been well since BOR kicked his sorry a$$ a few weeks back.
Maybe he can take Bobby Gibb's job as chief spin meister.
If challenged, she will....
Submitted by samhermanmd on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 8:04pm.
...resort to the tactic of "Prove it did not happen!"
Does anyone remember George Will's simple proposal from the late 1980s? He proposed that the price for having constitutional protection in their line of work that all "journalists" be required to disclose their voting. I remember George's piece well, because he said can you imagine anybody's surprise (sarcasm...) at having Sam Donaldson disclose he really voted for a Democrat?
I guess we see how Rach earned her doctorate in innuendo and deception.
Can anyone tell me the name of a liberal
Submitted by TheHistorian on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 8:05pm.
who is not also a habitual liar? Jimmah Carter, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, Barney Fwank, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, Steny Hoyer, Henry Waxman, Barbara Boxer, these are all people who have been caught in jaw-dropping lies that are never reported by the media, who are also therefore liars by omission as well as comission (like Madcow, Matthews, Sgt Schultz).
Dennis Prager
This Bend Forward thing has
Submitted by Van Halen on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 8:08pm.
This Bend Forward thing has got them lying more than ever. This is the kind of thing you say that should get you slapped in the mouth. What a worthless Liberal tool.
Isn't this libel?
Submitted by philipjames on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 8:12pm.
I know you can weasel around things, but isn't this comment libel? It sure sounds like it. You can't accuse people of these sorts of things if they are false. Sue the bitch.
I had the same thought....see below.
Submitted by motherbelt on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 8:16pm.
It's slander, though; libel is written.
I wish Stockman would sue her
Submitted by motherbelt on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 8:15pm.
I wish Stockman would sue her for slander.
I'd rather see
Submitted by UpNorth on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 8:23pm.
Mr. Stockman walk up to this guy, Madcow, and just slap him silly with a glove. One time should do it, and see if he/she even gets what Mr. Stockman has just done.
Then sue her and MessLSD.
If there is ever a case for a
Submitted by Andrew H. on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 9:06pm.
If there is ever a case for a public figure to sue for slander it seems highly likely this would be a good one.
I hope he sues the hell out of msnbc and maddow post haste.
The so-called mainstream media is the propaganda arm of the criminal DNC.
Maddow's reasoning*
Submitted by cajun2 on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 9:16pm.
She realized that making these kind of comments gets her more viewers from NB than she does from her show.
how can she get away with
Submitted by spepper on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 9:48pm.
....making such outrageous, unsubstantiated pack of lies over the air? Oh that's right, just answered my own question: MSNBC
I hope the Executives at
Submitted by Free Stinker on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 9:49pm.
I hope the Executives at Comcast are paying attention . . .
/// Sarah Palin Fan since July 11, 2007 /// خال
I'm going to TIVO MSNBC on Nov 2...
Submitted by gopcongress on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 10:39pm.
I'm going to TIVO the ENTIRE day on Nov 2, and perhaps Nov 3, just to see these morons moan and whine. I will save it all to DVD and put it in my Comedy Classic collection, along with Airplane! and the Dean Martin Roast collection...
"The news and truth are not the same thing." -Walter Lippmann (1889-1974) FOLLOW ME ON TWITTER
It's gonna be the best
Submitted by HockeyKid on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 1:39am.
It's gonna be the best exploding heads since "Mars Attacks"!
"Beauty is only skin deep, but liberal's to the bone." - me
Maddow was wrong--stunningly
Submitted by Jer on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 11:08pm.
Maddow was wrong--stunningly and outrageously wrong--about Stockman...but right about Chenowith.
Jer
So then, Jer---
Submitted by matthewdean on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 12:38am.
It was a balanced presentation by Maddow?
You remind me of a crow, hopping around in a pasture trying to glean bits of undigested grain from cow flop. :^)
MD
Matthew...
Submitted by Jer on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 1:05am.
What an interesting coincidence. Your tedious scolds remind me of cow flop. [Just kidding of course.]
Maddow's remarks were not balanced at all. Her correct assessment of Chenowith did not and could not make up for her egregious and inexcusable smear of Stockman.
Jer
Jer---
Submitted by matthewdean on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 1:20am.
Kinda like stepping in dog doo and wondering where the smell is coming from, huh?
Well, at least I'm consistent.
I missed the bit on Chenowith. Was she militia connected or something like that?
MD
edit for:
"tedious scold"-?
Shakespeare?
Matthew...re Chenowith and the militias
Submitted by Jer on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 1:25am.
Think of her as a den mother.
Jer
Jer---
Submitted by matthewdean on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 1:27am.
Got it.
Thanks.
MD
Maddow Joins Rosie?
Submitted by Cool Arrow on Tue, 10/19/2010 - 11:33pm.
So now Maddow is an Oklahoma City Truther?
Why am I not surprised that MSNBC is redeveloping this truther attitude.
The thing that is even worse
Submitted by iamkev on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 12:13am.
The thing that is even worse is that in March Maddow said that Mr. Stockman got the fax after the bombing
Thanks for tip
Submitted by Jack Coleman on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 7:52am.
Do you recall specifically when she said that?
It was March of this year .
Submitted by iamkev on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 12:32pm.
It was March of this year . The only link I could find is from crooks and liars http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/heather/rachel-maddow-words-matter
And in an aptly titled post, "Word Matter"
Submitted by Jack Coleman on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 4:50pm.
Thanks - you are awesome!
Rasmussen found that 61% of
Submitted by TE on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 1:58am.
Rasmussen found that 61% of the members of the Democrat party are whack job 9/11 Truther freakshow freak, conspiracy theorists.
I'd love to see a poll of the Democrat party that determines the percentage of the Democrat party who, like Madcow, are whack job Oklahoma City Truther freakshow freak, conspiracy theorists?
Maddow having a Cow
Submitted by beanervt on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 5:34am.
Just 'cause your having problems with your gender challange trip don't get all wee weed up and be makin stuff up to devert your anger.
These "intelligent" people sure are giving a bad rep to the word, as they show very little of being that at all.
It's very simple why Maddow
Submitted by Beukeboom on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 7:32am.
It's very simple why Maddow is going the conspiracy theory route...she is bucking for a co-hosting job on Jesse Ventura's conspiracy theory TV show.
Never happen.
Submitted by motherbelt on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 7:37am.
Jesse will refuse to appear with someone who makes him look like a sissy.
Ask yourself questions about their motives for lying...
Submitted by Fenwick on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 7:47am.
There is no doubt in my mind that Maddow knows that the accusation she put out there is a complete lie. So one has to ask why a [supposedly] highly intelligent "journalist" would do that at the risk of jeopardizing her credibility. The answer is that those in the progressive camp, with all their indoctrination in "moral equivalence" and "cultural relevance", believe that the only thing that is truly evil in this world is anything that opposes their world view and their plans to implement it. Therefore, they reason that they are simply doing the right thing, the good thing, by combating their opposition by any means necessary, even if it entails lying - or more drastic measures. It is the only way they can sleep at night.
These are very interesting times, I must say, to witness their masks slipping and all pretense of fairness and objectivity being cast aside.
November 2, 2010: Fasten your seat belts - it's going to be a bumpy night!
hmmm
Submitted by Iron Tigers Vet on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 8:20am.
so just because Chenoweth has defended the "rights" of the militia, she's a "den mother" of sorts... nice one there Jer, has never condoned violence and expresses the constitutional right to have a citizens militia (group), she's now being trashed after all these years.
And outright lie about Stockman, which should sue for slander, over something that didn't happen the way she said it. Ah yeah, but that would be like, well, telling the facts. Something pMSNBC doesn't know about.
Madcow, you've really stepped into an abyss of stupidity only the likes of MessNBC could hire. Congratulations! You should now be on Oralmann's "Worst" poster.
When?
Submitted by stormy67 on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 9:17am.
At what point do these individuals begin holding people like Maddow legally accountable? At what point do lawsuits get filed?
When they try to
Submitted by Boudin on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 9:22am.
She will just get on the air and give a backhanded apology. That all that ever happends?
That may be, but does it
Submitted by stormy67 on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 4:18pm.
That may be, but does it remove any legal culpability? I ask because I don't know, but what I do know is that it's time for us to clean up the media as well as D.C..
She should check her sources
Submitted by pummy on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 2:06pm.
Time for her to validate that claim with the resident 26 year old woman for expert information
Left Likes to Airbrush History
Submitted by devan95 on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 2:35pm.
The left likes to talk about the OK City bombing to smear the right but they almost never talk about the Waco Massacre of 1993. That is because this is something that they did that they are actually ashamed - and afraid - of. Waco was the most heinous violation of human, civil and Constitutional rights in this nation's history and it was carried out at the direction of a Democrat president and a Democrat AG i.e. the U.S. Govt., against their own citizens, and not the work of a lone nutjob. If you don't remember the particulars, here's a reminder:
http://www.wizardsofaz.com/waco/waco2.html
Not saying the OK bombing was the right response cause it wasn't, just saying that the libs never mention this part of the story. And you now know why.......
One more time: The
Submitted by Jer on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 3:27pm.
One more time: The child-abusing rapist and murdering religious madman, David Koresh, burned the Davidian compound--and everyone inside of it--to ashes.
Please deal with facts...not sick and despicable fables.
Jer
An additional "one more time" for Jer---
Submitted by matthewdean on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 11:36pm.
You obviously, through your hatred of Koresh and love of all or most things Clinton and Reno, believe that Koresh personally burned everyone up, or ordered it done.
It absolutely was not, and has not, been proven to be so.
You, Jer, as regards this singular issue, continue to believe the "sick and despicable", to coin a phrase, lies of the Democrats in office at that time.
MD
Matthew...
Submitted by Jer on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 11:43pm.
No, I do not "love" all or most things Clinton and Reno.
Hatred is a strong emotion which I reserve for the truly evil.
Yes, I do hate the child murderer/rapist bastard Koresh.
Jer
Jer--
Submitted by matthewdean on Wed, 10/20/2010 - 11:57pm.
So you do hate purple-lips, the bete noire, Pelosi, and ol' Bawney F.
'Bout time you woke up. :^)
MD
md...
Submitted by Jer on Thu, 10/21/2010 - 12:24am.
Please refer to the second paragraph of my previous post.
Jer
Yeah, Jer---
Submitted by matthewdean on Thu, 10/21/2010 - 12:32am.
Your second paragraph is about hating the truly evil.
Precisely my point, and why I listed those particular truly evil people for you.
Thanks for underlining it for me with a second post.
Glad you have partially come over from the dark side.
MD
Jer
Submitted by MichaelPaladin on Mon, 10/25/2010 - 7:29am.
Jer, you should watch a documentary called "Waco: The Rules of Engagment" and then you may gain some new insight as to events that happened.
CPS had been there many times and never did find any evidence of child abuse.
Neither Janet Reno (who
Submitted by RealVet on Tue, 10/26/2010 - 7:56am.
Neither Janet Reno (who ordered the massacre with Slick Willie's blessing) or congress could find any evidence of child abuse.
Watch "Waco, The Rules of Engagement", and read the book "The Ashes of Waco" by Dick J. Reavis.
Jer Is a democrat. Democrats are the party of the KKK
Submitted by upcountrywater on Mon, 10/25/2010 - 2:35pm.
Most recently, the FBI was caught lying about the use of pyrotechnic tear gas canisters. For six years the agency has sworn up and down that no incendiary devices were deployed on the day the Branch Davidian compound burned. Whoops.
Accuse the people who say you're lying of being "conspiracy theorists." This is especially effective when explaining your last lie.
You Didn't Build That.
Well looked who popped in to
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 10/25/2010 - 3:07pm.
Well looked who popped in to defend his buddy, the child-murdering Koresh...while citing Ann Coulter as his expert authority.
Jer
Been here longer than you ,Pal..
Submitted by upcountrywater on Mon, 10/25/2010 - 3:34pm.
I cite Ann Coulter, kuz you hate her...
Prove her wrong on the FBI lies. Humm can't do it can ya.... HA HA HA
I wanted Koresh hauled into court, long before you showed your Liberal face around here to give cover to your gal, Janet Reno.
You Didn't Build That.
You've been here longer, pal?
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 10/25/2010 - 3:42pm.
Well good for you. I'll try to figure out the relevance of that fact when I have the chance.
Btw, I don't hate Ann Coulter. I hate evil human beings. That's why I hate Koresh.
And, ftr, I'm not a big fan of Reno. But I don't like seeing her--or anybody--falsely smeared.
Jer
Michael, I would commend to
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 10/25/2010 - 3:00pm.
Michael, I would commend to you the documentary "The Children of Waco" in which you can hear for yourself the actual words of Davidians, children who were released prior to Koresh murdering the remaining inhabitants, parents, and others intimately familiar with the conditions and activities inside the compound as well as the behavior of Koresh.
Perhaps you and I have differing views on what acts constitute child abuse, but in my opinion the following would qualify:
--Disciplining children for minor transgressions by paddling them until they bled;
--Forcing children to pay rapt attention to Koresh while he preached nonstop for hours during which time they would not be allowed to leave the room for any reason, even if it meant urinating on themselves or soiling their clothes;
--Fracturing families by alienating wives from husbands and severing the pre-existing parent/child relationship after which the mother would become the "wife" of Koresh;
--Statutory rape of a number of underage girls--legally still children--whom Koresh would "marry" and, in many cases, were impregnated by him and bore him children;
--And, of course, the final and ultimate abuse was Koresh ordering the setting of the fires that burned the compound to the ground along with the children and everyone else he had deluded with his mad, Apocalyptic prophesies.
The Danforth Report, which was the culmination of an exhaustive investigation into the events leading up to the fiery and tragic ending, removes all doubt as to the identity of the responsible party. There were mistakes made by the government to be sure, but David Koresh was the murdering bastard who slaughtered the innocents.
Jer
The Danforth Report was a damned whitewash---
Submitted by matthewdean on Mon, 11/01/2010 - 4:26am.
and naming upcountry as a buddy or friend of Koresh is low.
Even for a retired liberal lawyer.
MD
Seams like the squishy democrat would stick in a
Submitted by upcountrywater on Mon, 11/01/2010 - 5:26pm.
;-)
But NO.
HAHAHAHAHAHA
You Didn't Build That.
upcountry---
Submitted by matthewdean on Tue, 11/02/2010 - 1:10am.
The retired barrister in Georgia is suffering from a liberal induction into the whys and wherefores of a liberal political meltdown.
MD
Well, matthew...
Submitted by Jer on Tue, 11/02/2010 - 2:12am.
that was only because in the past ucw appeared to exhibit a curious dedication to the defense of the child rapist, Koresh. However, if he will join me in condemning that murdering bastard, I will retract and apologize for any past insinuation and avoid any future insinuation that he harbors any sympathy for Koresh.
Jer
Maybe, Jer---
Submitted by matthewdean on Tue, 11/02/2010 - 10:43pm.
You misread distrust of the Clinton Administrations actions and dissembling as favoritism of Koresh.
You know, "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" business.
MD
Balloon boy Jer, jumps the shark..
Submitted by upcountrywater on Mon, 11/08/2010 - 6:05pm.
What part of my comments to Arrest him and ship him to Court, did you miss, lawyer?
I mentioned that FACT in here NB land, Ohh 5 or 6 times, over the period of several years and you failed to show up, to register that on your liberal tainted brain...typical.
I am clear on your out of character liberal view that you prefer flushing the "presumption of innocence" in this case, As spewed by you over and over again.
You Didn't Build That.
I see, ucw...
Submitted by Jer on Mon, 11/08/2010 - 6:49pm.
So by virtue of the fact he hadn't been previously arrested, the child rapist and gun runner Koresh was therefore entitiled to murder federal agents and burn children alive?
At what point during the seige did Killer Koresh offer to give himself up? And live up to his promise?
Keep making excuses for him, son. It won't do the monster any good. He's rotting in Hell.
Jer
Now, now, Jer---
Submitted by matthewdean on Tue, 11/09/2010 - 3:26am.
if Koresh wasn't previously arrested, then you are being unfairly prejudicial. /sarc
The man was bad news, yes.
The bone of contention between us, and I am not speaking for upcountry, is that you blame Koresh for what happened at Waco, and I blame government misprision.
We will never agree on where the culpability should rest, but in the greater scheme of things, that is likely something we can live with.
MD
Here's the deal, Matthew....
Submitted by Jer on Tue, 11/09/2010 - 4:02am.
I make judgments based on evidence and facts, including the statements of witnesses. Just as I know beyond any reasonable doubt that OJ Simpson--although criminally acquitted--brutally murdered Nicole Brown and Ron Goldman, I know that David Koresh was a child abuser and a mass murderer. I'm not by nature a hater, but I hate murderers and I harbor a special and unrelenting abhorrence for the murderers of children. The federal agents made mistakes to be sure, but they were good people doing their job and trying every way possible to safely get the children out of the compound. The sick, sham-messiah Koresh preached the Apocalypse and deliberately brought it down on himself, his deluded followers and the innocent children. The contemptible bastard deserves nothing but our loathing and scorn.
Jer
Ain't saying he don't, Jer---
Submitted by matthewdean on Wed, 11/10/2010 - 1:40am.
What I am saying is, that in my opinion, your hatred of Koresh seems to be what causes you to cut the government more slack than is warranted.
I base that judgement on my knowledge from law enforcement work, and specifically, on many years as an arson investigator.
It is one thing to allow that mistakes were made by federal agents and quite another to buy into every explanation those very agents provided.
MD
How about you, Matthew...
Submitted by Jer on Wed, 11/10/2010 - 1:54am.
How about you, Matthew...
Will you step up to the plate and inform Liberallies he is misreading the word OVERBROAD on the Sharia law thread?
Jer
Jer---
Submitted by matthewdean on Sun, 11/14/2010 - 9:58pm.
I was gone from the morning of 11-10 until late afternoon today, 11-14.
I had access to a "notebook" computer that was notoriously slow, and my one attempt at NBs got me caught up with the poster with username dadinleftfield.
Since I know for sure that you can make clear the difference between, and use correctly, both overboard and overbroad, I didn't jump in; but I did get a kick out of Liberallies ragging on Denny like there was no tomorrow.
It didn't appear that anyone, even Denny, advised Liberallies what Denny's prior username was.
That was funny.
MD
FBI Should Question Maddow
Submitted by RealVet on Mon, 10/25/2010 - 6:59am.
Apparently, Maddow has new "information" concerning the worst domestic terrorist attack ever to occur on U.S. soil This warrants that she be immediately questioned in detail by FBI & BATF agents and Homeland Security. The results of those interviews should be made public.
Subsequently (if proven that her information is false), it would be appropriate if Mr. Stockman filed a multi-million dollar lawsuit against Maddow and MSNBC for defamation of character, libel, and whatever else a battery of committed lawyers can come up with after deposing the agents and investigators.