This sort of thing an actual journalist would have flagged as dubious, but not Rachel Maddow.
On her MSNBC show this past Monday, Maddow and guest Jeff Sharlet, an author and contributing editor at Harper's Magazine, were talking about the so-called Stupak amendment in the House health bill to prevent weakening of the ban on federal funding of abortion.
Here's how the revelant portion of the conversation went --
MADDOW: Let me ask you about some of the other conventional wisdom here because the sort of conventional explanation for this is that this anti-abortion amendment to health reform resulted mostly from the Catholic bishops pressuring Catholic politicians to support it. But I know that you think that it's bigger than that. Can you explain why?
SHARLET: Well, exact-, I think it's unfair to Catholics, I think it's unfair to evangelicals. First of all, most of the press has focused on Catholics despite the fact that a number of the congressmen involved in this are not Catholic, including Congressman (Joseph) Pitts, R-Pa. (co-sponsor of amendment with Bart Stupak,RD-Mich.), including Congressman (Heath) Shuler (D-N.C.) who you mentioned. And frankly the majority of American Catholics are pro-choice. That's not true of the majority of American evangelicals.Story Continues Below Ad ↓
That's not true of the majority of Catholics either, according to a poll released April 30 by the Pew Research Center's Forum on Religion & Public Life.
The poll, coming out just before Obama's commencement speech at the University of Notre Dame, found that 47 percent of Catholics believe abortion should be "legal in all/most cases," compared to 42 percent stating it should be "illegal in all/most cases."
More telling was the huge disparity between those who "attend weekly" Mass compared to those who "attend less often." Among weekly churchgoers, nearly two-thirds -- 63 percent -- said abortion should be illegal in all or most cases. Thirty percent of Catholics attending Mass "less often" than weekly said abortion should be legal in all or most cases.
The figures were almost exactly reversed for "less observant" Catholics -- 61 percent said abortion should be legal in all or most cases, compared to 29 percent opposed.
In other words, Catholics whose attendance at church extends beyond Christmas Eve and Easter overwhelmingly oppose abortion. But you already knew that, right?
I found it amusing for Sharlet to make his claim after Maddow asked him about the "conventional wisdom here" -- whereupon Sharlet trotted out what counts as conventional wisdom at MSNBC.
Such assertions by people who ought to know better (Sharlet, author of a book titled "The Family: The Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power," has written extensively on religion ) might well have a ripple effect, prompting politicians such as Rep. Patrick Kennedy, D-R.I., to take on Catholic bishops over abortion -- based on that alleged majority of Catholics supporting it.
A majority of Catholics who summer in Hyannisport, but not a majority otherwise.





















Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Majority of Catholics are
Fri, 11/13/2009 - 19:28 ET by RogerCfromSDMajority of Catholics are pro-choice??
I guess it's alright for me to claim that the majority of liberals are pro-America, then.
A nation cannot be free without a free, unbiased media. We are not free.
And frankly the majority
Fri, 11/13/2009 - 20:18 ET by motherbeltAnd frankly the majority of American Catholics are pro-choice.
When
a liberal begins a statement with "frankly" or "clearly" or "the fact
of the matter is" that is a red flag indicating that what follows is a
something that he or she made up in their head, with no basis in fact.
It's easy to sling the B as in B, S as in S, when you know you won't be challenged.
Neither Rachel, Chris Matthews, or Keith Olbermann (nor any other liberal host that I've missed) would DREAM of asking "Where did you get those numbers?" They just nod in agreement.
I'll bet that the majority
Fri, 11/13/2009 - 19:40 ET by ricklailI'll bet that the majority of Catholics on here are pro-life. I just can't understand for the life of me why the Catholic Church does not kick out the pro-abortionist like the Kennedys, Kerrys, Plelosi.
Semper suprene nitens
There is no point dwelling on all the foolish mistakes we have made in our lives. For one thing, it can be very time-consuming. Dr. Thomas Sowell
I am one of them who
Fri, 11/13/2009 - 20:23 ET by motherbeltI am one of them who wonders that on a daily basis, and wishes the Church would.
If for no other reason than to deny abortion advocates of being able to say "even Catholics like Nancy Pelosi and John Kerry are in favor."
Pope Benedict has made it
Fri, 11/13/2009 - 20:50 ET by celatorPope Benedict has made it abundantly clear that politicians who support abortion, excommunicate themselves from the church, according to long established laws of the church. There are lots of references for this, but I offer this one:
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL0956318820070509
It is more than puzzling to most of us why the Bishops, as a body and individually, are (mostly) quiet about this. Some do make a HUGE issue, as they should, but there is too much "looking the other way".
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
Edward Kennedy's
Fri, 11/13/2009 - 22:12 ET by lotrappointed time to meet his Maker has come and gone, and I shudder to consider what the Author of Life may be asking him.
"Steady." -- Keith Olbermann to Chris Matthews
A majority of vegetarians are meat eaters.....
Fri, 11/13/2009 - 19:44 ET by NeoKongwhat....?
My statistic is as good as any.
More lies and blather from
Fri, 11/13/2009 - 19:49 ET by celatorMore lies and blather from Maddow and MSNBC.
Here's the real story from LifeNews:
"An October 2008 poll conducted by Marist College found 63 percent of Catholics say they oppose all abortions, all abortions except to save the mother's life, or all abortions except to save the mother's life or in cases of rape or incest.
(Note the following paragraph)
"That puts nearly two-thirds of Catholics favoring a pro-life position opposing about 98 percent of all abortions, according to Alan Guttmacher Institute information about when abortions are done."
"Looking at another poll, a September 2008 survey conducted by the National Scientific Survey Center found 78 percent of active Catholics saying abortion is morally wrong along with 66 percent of secular Catholics, who don't attend church services as often."
http://www.lifenews.com/nat4951.html
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
Now you see, if he had made
Fri, 11/13/2009 - 20:14 ET by motherbeltNow you see, if he had made that statement on BOR's or Hannity's show, they would likely have those numbers or the poll cited by Jack here handy to challenge him with, having done their homework and prepared.
Or they would have at least asked him where his info came from!
But Rachel has no need to "prepare" anything; she's just there to cue him up to say whatever he wants.
MB--Exactly! Maddow is
Fri, 11/13/2009 - 20:20 ET by celatorMB--Exactly!
Maddow is eyebrow deep in advocacy commentary, and she takes it to a level that makes her look like an agit prop 100 percent of the time. Her working motto: "We don't need no stinking data" here at MSNBC.
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
No we are not!
Fri, 11/13/2009 - 20:09 ET by octaviojSimple as that.
Here's another interesting
Fri, 11/13/2009 - 20:21 ET by BKeyserHere's another interesting fact that I can state is categorically true:
Most Muslim extremists who conduct suicide bombings are latent homosexuals yearning to be freed from the conservative chains of Islam.
Fact check that one Rachel.
An apology in order?
Fri, 11/13/2009 - 21:02 ET by TomoramaStupak is also a DEMOCRAT as were many of the others that signed this bill, Miss 13 year old boy.
A great man once said, YOU only get out of life what YOU put into it, he obviously wasn't a liberal.
Duly corrected
Fri, 11/13/2009 - 21:20 ET by Jack ColemanNice catch, thanks for pointing it out
Catholic faith is not what
Fri, 11/13/2009 - 21:08 ET by EdhenryCatholic faith is not what is in a poll of those who may identify as Catholics. Catholic doctrine clearly supports all life, from conception to natural death. No abortion.
If you do not believe and live the Catholic doctrine, you are not a Catholic. You are merely attending mass, and usually sporadically.
Ummm... No.
Fri, 11/13/2009 - 21:15 ET by rbosqueUmmm... No.
There are exactly 0 (zero)
Fri, 11/13/2009 - 21:18 ET by pcantidoteThere are exactly 0 (zero) pro-choice Catholics anywhere in the world. I am pretty sure the Vatican would say there is no choice on being pro-life. Kind of like being a big-government libertarian.
Enforce Term Limits if They Won't: Vote Against ALL Incumbents in 2010.
Rinse, Repeat
Fri, 11/13/2009 - 23:09 ET by DoktorFrankenRepeat the lie until it becomes the accepted truth. Leftists read Alinsky - Conservatives understand him. Only mental midgets believe these toads.
Sarah Palin: The Most Dangerous Conservative In America
The fastest growing pro-life religion is Islam..
Fri, 11/13/2009 - 23:29 ET by Southern voterMuslins prohibit abortion ...their goal is for Muslins to take over the world....so while the 'women libbers' here...and the pro-choice Democrats and Republicans protect a womens right to murder her own baby ...CHOICE...the Muslims are sitting back 'rejoicing' !!! they don't have to come over here and kill us ...we allow over 1 million American babies to be murdered every year by their own mothers....
Until America sees abortion, America will not end abortion.
But the other side of the coin...
Fri, 11/13/2009 - 23:35 ET by MightyMouthis that true conservatives will "out breed" liberals in a few decades. I mean elite liberals... not project liberals(who really aren't liberal just slaves of the liberal system). YES I SAID IT!--Levin.
"The bureaucracy is growing to meet the needs of the growing bureaucracy"
OK. So a RELIGION is
Fri, 11/13/2009 - 23:53 ET by KevroyOK. So a RELIGION is supposed to turn it's backs on its tenets of beliefs and say, "OK, abort your children before they are born for the sake of convenience"? Just to appease the child killers? Republicans are supposed to ignore their beliefs and support an idiot of a president just because he is president?
On what planet do these people live? And why is this only a one way street? Liberals are never asked/expected to move more to the right.
Legality and Morality
Sat, 11/14/2009 - 00:12 ET by KC MulvilleThat's another fast-and-loose deception. It doesn't mean that Catholics are in favor of abortion.
William F. Buckley was in favor of legalizing drugs. That doesn't prove anything about whether WFB thought heroin use was moral - indeed, he didn't. But he believed that there was a distinction between law and morality. If you intended to use law as a weapon to stop drugs, Buckley argued, the law was making things worse. Law and morality are two different things.
American Catholics don't favor abortion, morally. But they do follow the idea that they shouldn't "impose" their morality on others through the law. That's why they want to keep it legal, even if they oppose it themselves. I think that's an extremely wrong-headed legal theory when it comes to abortion, but Americans fall for it.
That said, the willingness of Americans to keep something legal has nothing to do with whether they consider it immoral. Indeed, most Americans, non-Catholic as well as Catholic, consider abortion morally wrong. So you have to take Maddow's guest's claim with a grain of salt. When Maddow's guest claims that "majority of Catholics are pro-choice," that doesn't mean they consider abortion to be moral.
I can see the point. To me
Sat, 11/14/2009 - 00:16 ET by Dan The Man 2I can see the point. To me anyone who says I am pro life but if someone wants to have an abortion then I support their right. I have met many Christians like this including Catholics. So anyone who supports the other person having an abortion is pro abortion and not pro life.
The majority muslims in
Sat, 11/14/2009 - 01:27 ET by George S PattonThe majority muslims in America are hard line fundamentalists who want to kill all white people.
Only the male fundamentalists, the "chicks" love it here.
Sat, 11/14/2009 - 01:29 ET by MightyMouth"The bureaucracy is growing to meet the needs of the growing bureaucracy"
MM
Sat, 11/14/2009 - 01:37 ET by MrShy"(Muslim) Chicks dig the free-market and individual freedoms."
Hey Shy
Sat, 11/14/2009 - 02:00 ET by MightyMouthDo you think there is a "muslim chick" underground that gets em to like California or Texas?
"The bureaucracy is growing to meet the needs of the growing bureaucracy"
riiiight... The Rocky
Sat, 11/14/2009 - 09:57 ET by wiwfriiiight...
The Rocky Mountain Collegian: Illustrating Idiocy
What he neglects to explain
Sat, 11/14/2009 - 11:22 ET by katiejaneis that those who are pro-choice are American "Chinese menu" style Catholics who think they are entitled to pick and choose which basic beliefs they follow. They believe because they attend Mass on some of the Days of Holy Obligation they should be able to ignore the Church's rules and still consider themselves "good" Catholics.