Joining Rachel Maddow on her MSNBC show Thursday to vent about that pesky wabbit Joe Lieberman was Fire Dog Lake firedoglake blogger Jane Hamsher.
Democrats wield considerable leverage over Lieberman, Hamsher opined, to keep him from joining a GOP filibuster of ObamaCare or punish him if he does --
MADDOW: ... I think you're right to point out that other senators sort of gently expressing their disapproval of his proverbial toplessness at this point is a bigger deal than it would be in the real world, that their words do actually sort of calibrate differently. But what leverage can they really bring to bear on him in order to get him to get in line?Story Continues Below Ad ↓
HAMSHER: Well, as you say, there are people who do have influence over Joe Lieberman. Joe has his committee chairmanship of the Homeland Security Committee, that's his power base in the Senate. He's a very vain man and were that to be stripped from him, he would be like Rumpelstiltskin putting his foot through the floor. And the Democrats have the power to do that. So again, the Harkin, Conrad comments today were to the effect of, you know, let's, let's remember, you're here at our good graces, Joe.
But, you know, he also needs the sub base at Groton, which is, you know, the submarine version of the F-22, in order to stay in the good graces of Connecticut's citizens while he does stuff like this, and that's something that could, you know, potentially go as well.
Silly me, thinking such decisions, you know, should be based on national security considerations and not, you know, vindictive partisan politics. You know?
Hamsher does deserve credit, however. At least she's willing to state aloud what Rahm Emanuel and David Axelrod will utter only behind closed doors.
Earlier in the segment, Hamsher made a revealing slip that suggests where she sees herself in the order of the universe --
HAMSHER: Well, I think it's a mistake to think of the Senate as an august body, possibly the most powerful deliberative body in the world, and instead think of us as it being in day four of a beauty pageant.
What's this "us" stuff, paleface?
Day four of a beauty pageant in which the blinding blonde stumbles off the catwalk.
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BRAC
October 31, 2009 - 13:40 ET by imau2fanIt also shows quite a bit of ignorance. Such decisions are made by the Base Realignment and Closure Commission, albeit with heavy lobbying by lawmakers. It's not something Harry Reid or Nancy Pelosi can do unilaterally.
"so sayeth the shepherd" "so sayeth the flock"
October 31, 2009 - 21:38 ET by konoThe party in power is largely of the same mind when it comes to the military, and the closures under Bubba's reign showed how little they care about the fallout.
While shutting Groton would take some time, if Reid and Pelosi were in a vindictive mood, they could muster enough support to press BRAC to get it done.
Closing Groton to get even with Lieberman the way Madcow put it here, though, is the best example of "cutting off your nose to spite your face" that I've ever encountered.
Playing games
October 31, 2009 - 13:50 ET by KC Mulville"Silly me, thinking such decisions, you know, should be based on national security considerations and not, you know, vindictive partisan politics."
You said it, and said it perfectly, Jack!
Same as the Afghan strategy decision. We have soldiers in the field, needing a decision, and the White House treats "Afghanistan" as a puck on the political ice. All that matters to them is winning a transient game, and they's quite willing to subjugate national security to win it.
These people treat governance as a pawn to win elections, instead of seeing elections as stepping stones to governance. For them, they "won" last November ... everything from January 20 going forward is just the celebration afterward.
Thanks, KC Mulville
October 31, 2009 - 15:27 ET by Jack ColemanI like, really, you know, appreciate that. Dude!
pawns
October 31, 2009 - 21:16 ET by konoExactly. Watching a Liberal in Washington deal with the military is like watching a monkey play with a handgun. The latter usually winds up holding the barrel and pounding things with the grip (the better to shoot itself...), and the former usually winds up using it for political leverage back home (the better to get our soldiers killed...).
Our Hemorrhoid-in-Chief seems intent on dragging this decision past the November ballot date, to avoid any electoral fallout. And that cynical command decision has gotten scores of soldiers and guardsmen free trips home (in body bags)...
So we should move it to say, Chicago?
October 31, 2009 - 14:04 ET by SickofLibsHow is New London/Groton in any way analogous to the F-22 program???
Groton has been there since 1915, And yes, Dr. Maddow and Ms. Hamster, we had subs in 1915.
Groton?
October 31, 2009 - 14:26 ET by CO2MakerIsn't that where they make those fish sticks? You know, in the yellow and blue box with a old-timey guy in a sea slicker?
But seriously, I'd like to buy ten Raptors for $187 million each ($350+ using different accounting methods) built in Marietta, Jawja. And you can forget making any more of those $4 billion-dollar Trident submarines and lay off a lot of workers at Electric Boat Yard in Groton. ('Scuse me, you can "save" many jobs at Electric Boat.)
Stop churning out Subs
October 31, 2009 - 15:23 ET by Jeff in Miami BeachStop for a while making subs but continue to make the reactors. The reactors that are almost assembly line ready could be sold and used for clean cheap energy. Even without make them larger they could be interconnected to make excellent power for places like Florida or California much cheaper than Solar or Wind.
That is the real product of "Electric Boat". All they need is government approval, oh well never mind.
If you think medical care is expensive now wait until it is free!
You don't know what you are talking about.
October 31, 2009 - 16:35 ET by richb313I was in the Navy 1973-1979 and served on Fast Attacks, the USS Tunny (SSN 682). Electric Boat Yard does not make reactors. In fact the reactors are leased and not owned by the Navy. ON the sub I was on it used a Westinghouse Reactor. I am sure that the Navy still uses Reactors either built by Westinghouse or General Electric.
If we stop building subs we lose the ability to build them. Subs are not merely put together from plans but built by real people at Shipyards like E.B. which has a long instituional memory that keeps this ability alive.
The Sub Base at Groton or New London Conn. is the home of United States Subs. Sub School is located there. If this base were ever closed we would also lose the institutional memory that exists there as well. A day will come when we need the capabilities that only submarines can provide but if we do not have current submarine capability we may not have the time to re-learn it.
sanity check
October 31, 2009 - 21:24 ET by konoThanks for the dose of reality, rb.
History...
October 31, 2009 - 19:46 ET by heldmywYeah! Let's close West Point and Annapolis, too!
Stupid runs rampant!
Kelo? Kelo?
October 31, 2009 - 19:55 ET by CO2MakerWait a minute! Let them shut down the submarine base to teach Loserman a lesson. They've already got land to build a nifty waterfront shopping "experience," after the city redistributed the land wealth of Kelo and those other landowners who were just living in the houses they owned and not paying enough taxes. But now, with the vacated land under the new ownership of the ... "public option," all is good in New London, prosperity is at hand, and no more puppies will die.
And just where in the hell
October 31, 2009 - 14:09 ET by ricklailAnd just where in the hell would they put another submarine base like Groton-San Fran? What a dumbass remark. Just shows these people are glacically stupid like Blonde says.
They still have one dumbass senator-Dodd. He would never allow it.
Semper suprene nitens
OBAMACARE: If it ain't good enough for my Congressman then it ain't good enough for me.
Decisions based on Politics
October 31, 2009 - 14:07 ET by ptsonWHERE in hell do they get these stupid people? I realize reading a blog is like striking up a conversation in a bar. It is possible to meet Einstein but more likely you will be talking with Cliff Claven. So a dumb blonde blogger who thinks we should destroy the navy to punish a rogue democrat Senator is news worthy? Consider the host and I guess you have your answer.
You know...?
October 31, 2009 - 14:12 ET by BKeyserI'm starting to think that there's a rule, you know, that Rachel doesn't allow guests with, you know, hair longer than hers.
Heaven help us
October 31, 2009 - 14:28 ET by tim413I'm certain some of my grad students remember me saying this two and three decades ago: it is good that we have folks on the political extremes because that keeps the rest of us honest, but heaven help us if they ever get into power. We need to ensure the Senate becomes more filibuster safe in 2010 so these idiot voices on the far left return to the margins of political discussion.
Stop federal judges from foisting their notions of "fairness" on the States. Amend the 14th Amendment! - tim413
Of course, for the libs, the
October 31, 2009 - 14:47 ET by nadadhimmiOf course, for the libs, the best thing about closing the Groton sub base is how much it would help the Chinese Communists. You know, seeing as how much they love Mao and all. "I'm just sayin'."
What?
October 31, 2009 - 14:51 ET by easygoerI didn't see the segment so I don't know what came before, but what the hell does "proverbial toplessness" mean? And how does Hamsher know Lieberman is a "very vain man? Does she know him well, if she's even met him?
Hamsher likened Lieberman ...
October 31, 2009 - 15:00 ET by Jack Coleman... to a beauty pageant contestant drawing attention to herself by dropping her top in front of the judges, an analogy sure to appeal to Maddow. Here's a link to the full segment --
http://www.youtube.c...
JC
October 31, 2009 - 15:29 ET by easygoerThanks, Jack.
What's this "us" stuff, paleface?
October 31, 2009 - 15:02 ET by needleWhat indeed!
Maybe Jane Hamsher could get one of her soullessmates, say William Ayers or Rashid Khalidi or one of his friends, to blow up the sub base at Groton. After all, that worthless installation is just there for pleasure of Joe Lieberman; it doesn’t have anything to do with the security of the US. And even if it did, why on earth would that be of any concern of Jane Hamsher or anyone who reads her blog or listens to MSNBC?
These people are so bad, they could spoil a pile of manure just by sitting in it.
- Relying upon the MSNBC for your information is like relying upon an embezzler for your portfolio management.
- I didn't leave the Republican Party; the Republican Party left me.
"They still have one
October 31, 2009 - 15:55 ET by chessplayer"They still have one dumbass senator-Dodd. He would never allow it."
Slow Joe? Don`t count on it.
What's With the Bargaining?
October 31, 2009 - 16:01 ET by HoosierEmThese backroom deals the politicians make with each other really bug me for some reason as do their habit of "punishing" the other party. Wouldn't it be great if politicians voted on certain bills because of their constituency as opposed to pleasing other politicians?
I know - wishful thinking.
Blackmail. Punishment. Not logic.
October 31, 2009 - 16:16 ET by ThisnThatYep. Typical liberal. Don't use logic. Try emotion instead. And when that doesn't work, use threats. Show how you can use your political power, and simply crush or blackmail anyone -- including senators, of course. Exercise extreme control to eliminate any and all opposition.
That, my friends, is what the dimocratic party is all about.
__________
"mmm, mmm, mm. Barrack-Hussain-Øbama↓." - The liberals coolaid drinking song
Actually I agree that the democrats should, enmasse
October 31, 2009 - 16:18 ET by Willis_Leon_JohnsonDeclare that unless Joe caves in and supports the healthcare takeover, the democrats will be completely devoted to closing the Groton Sub Base, and all other government installations in Connecticut.
The democrat party would NEVER win another election in that State, or a lot of other States that have government/military installations.
http://gjresult.com
these petty little
October 31, 2009 - 16:35 ET by jkwtradingthese petty little people...Joe, if they closed the Sub base also has 5 years before his next election to tell the entire state of Connecticut democrats suck.
Ol Joe whup assed the democrats in 2008 by first losing a primary then turning independent and making the same race to same fellow not even close. Joe walked to the winners circle in 2008..
→ Hamsher
October 31, 2009 - 16:45 ET by Cool ArrowLet's see. Maddow and Olbermann get some serious fluff time with the President, and suddenly Maddow's got a guest from out of nowhere dropping little pellets to remind the strays to get back on Uncle Barry's Farm.
Who will show up on Olbie's couch?
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
Fair & Balanced
October 31, 2009 - 18:21 ET by viluzionRepublicans like Snowe, Specter and McCain are brave mavericks who stand up for their beliefs instead of blindly following the party line like the rest of the ignorant, knuckle dragging members of their corrupt and evil party.
Lieberman, by contrast, is a traitor to the high principles held dear by The One and therefore must be punished.
I guess that's what liberals mean by transparency. Their motives are quite clear.
So now we find out that
October 31, 2009 - 19:15 ET by Patrick MichaelSo now we find out that hope and change really means vindictive and petty, and best of all it is not limited to the white house. I hope that Senator Liberman has the courage to stick to his beliefs and as far as Maddow and Jane Hamsher are concerned if there are any shenanagins with the sub base at least we will know why now. I guess that it will just be the Democrats "gently expressing their disapproval" What is it that Michelle Malkin calls this administration? Oh yeah, Chicago-on-the-Potomac.
Stay Free!!!
Dump Dodd! ?
October 31, 2009 - 23:23 ET by LindamaeI live in CT and the Dump Dodd signs are showing up everywhere. To close the sub base in Groton will certainly destroy Dodd completely. Leiberman will still do well because most of CT now realize we have been hurt by the Military cut of the jet plus the possiblity of lay offs in the insurance companies of which we have several. The public option is NOT free. When this gets out and people realize that they will have to give up their right to determine what coverage they wish to carry, then they will turn on Dodd every more and support Joe. You will find someone who works at Pratt, Groton, (any UTX company), insurance company or medical center in every family in central CT. When the jobs go, then everyone in the family will agree to dump Dodd and the other Democrats who have destroyed our economy. I don't know how we can accept Pelosi, REid, Frank, DiLauro, Larson Waters and Waxman when they also belong to the American Socialist party. How can they honor their pledge to support and defend the US Constitution when they have also sworn to destroy it? If the press did it job, this would not have happened.
The arrogance
November 1, 2009 - 10:33 ET by octaviojJust the other day they were screaming from the top of their lungs the Republicans have no thought and act as a block. Now they want the libs to do it? Is this not arrogant and hypocritical? If the people of Connecticut are not happy with Senator Lieberman they will let him know in the next election. As it should be.
That's the Dem/lib/socialists for ya
November 1, 2009 - 10:43 ET by ahusserThey get to kill two birds with one stone. Hurt Lieberman and get a jab in to the 'military industrial complex'. Never mind the lost jobs and ruination of an economy. The military is so 'icky' that dems believe this would be a good thing. The Dems the party of 'icky' you know military is 'icky', war is 'icky' police are icky, hunting is 'icky', guns are 'icky'; ad infinitum.
"Somehow, I told you so, just doesn't quite say it." Will Smith in 'I, Robot.'
Zero Sympathy
November 1, 2009 - 11:32 ET by ShanghaiRayFor every citizen who votes to re-elect or elect a liberal nutjob to any public office, I hold zero sympathy. I don't care if they are out of a job, starving, taxed up the yang yang or a multitude of other liberal "ideas". I won't have a single drop of sympathy for them or their children. Harsh? Yeah maybe but people who keep voting these walking pieces of excrement into office need to really feel the pain they inflicted on the rest of the population. Lot's of people who voted for Obama and now whining about his policies.....I say duuhhhh.....how many times were they warned about him but didn't listen? Thousands. They all got caught up in the media hype of electing the first black President. hogwash! that's is the most stupid thing I've eer heard in my life. I don't care what color the dude is because as far as I know stupid doesn't have a color.
"Race doesn't matter..liberals are only one color - YELLOW"