Is "Ripley's Believe It Or Not!" still around? If so, have I got a submission for them. On second thought, they'd probably consider it too implausible.
New Yorker staff writer Lawrence Wright, author of "The Looming Tower: Al Qaeda and the Road to 9/11," was among the guests on MSNBC's "The Rachel Maddow Show" Monday night.
Maddow and Wright talked about the American military efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan and how far into the future we can expect the missions to continue --
MADDOW: In terms of the, I guess, the thinking about how far is too far and when you start having diminishing returns with a military presence, is there reason to believe that an extended, indefinite, long-term US military presence in Afghanistan and in Iraq would be something that al Qaeda would see as to their advantage?
WRIGHT: Oh yeah, I think that there's no question that al Qaeda sees this as a rallying point, both of these countries, for recruits. And unfortunately, you know, from their point of view, Iraq hasn't turned out so well, but they're migrating now into Afghanistan and into the tribal areas of Pakistan, and we're following them there.
(Follow this link for video of discussion; quotes cited above are found 5:42 into the clip)
"Unfortunately" indeed, albeit from "their point of view." Curious use of the word "migrating" by Wright, not one often used to discuss military tactics. It does serve nicely, however, as euphemism for another word -- "retreat."
I've been watching Maddow's MSNBC show since its debut in September and this is the only time I recall host or guest acknowledging, albeit sideways, that the United States and its allies are winning in Iraq, while the conflict "hasn't turned out so well" for al Qaeda and insurgents.
Such an assertion, even less artfully phrased, could have been uttered earlier on the show had Maddow not abandoned her initial inclination to invite guests who actually disagree with her. Guests like this are now seldom seen on Maddow's MSNBC show (and rarely on Maddow's Air America Radio program), except for the occasional appearance by Pat Buchanan, a conservative whose views on Iraq just happen to align with Maddow's.
Wright's claim of Iraq and Afghanistan as "rallying point" for al Qaeda could be more accurately stated of another political entity, at least pertaining to Iraq -- the Democratic Party. Think of what's happened with Democrats since the US-led invasion of Iraq in March 2003. It was Howard Dean's unequivocal opposition to the war that animated his insurgent campaign for president from mid-2003 onward and made Dean an early favorite to win the Democratic nomination.
Dean's initial success forced other Democrats to shift their views on Iraq leftward, especially John Kerry, John Edwards and Dick Gephardt, all of whom voted in favor of congressional authorization for force against Iraq in October 2002.
Kerry, who won the nomination due to keen awareness among liberals of their quadrennial vulnerability on national security issues, barely lost the 2004 election. But as the pre-surge conflict in Iraq went badly over the next two years, Democrats won big gains in Congress in the 2006 mid-terms, followed by another opponent of the Iraq war, indistinguishable in his politics from Dean, winning the presidency in 2008.
This is not the first time Democrats have "rallied" in opposition to a wartime president -- they did the same during Lincoln's presidency, going so far as to nominate one of Lincoln's listless early generals, George McClellan, as their party's nominee in 1864. Old habits are hard for them to break, regardless of the stature of commander in chief.




















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Dean's initial success
December 24, 2008 - 11:42 ET by MidAmericaDean's initial success forced other Democrats to shift their views on Iraq leftward, especially John Kerry, John Edwards and Dick Gephardt, all of whom voted in favor of congressional authorization for force against Iraq in October 2002.
....and now they have to shift there views to the right. Witness their new 'centrist' democrat President.
Maddow: Liberal Lezbot
December 24, 2008 - 21:42 ET by bpjamWhy is anybody waiting around for her to approve of Bush, the GOP or anybody else who might be trying to help America surivive?
I don't care what Maddow, her artist girlfriend or anybody she works with think. They are insignificant backbenchers at a network who isn't going to survive this recession. They would be on radio if only they had enough followers to sustain a radio show.
"Unfortunately" indeed,
December 24, 2008 - 11:55 ET by Roger the Shrubber"Unfortunately" indeed, albeit from "their point of view." Curious use of the word "migrating" by Wright, not one often used to discuss military tactics. It does serve nicely, however, as euphemism for another word -- "retreat."
Or, perhaps, "redeploy"...
Migration of Forces
December 24, 2008 - 18:46 ET by kdoliverI think that migration is a very accurate word for what is happening. AQ is not a military force in the traditional sense. Their fighters come from all over the muslim world. They have moved their effort for training and to attack the Great Satan. So their recruits are migrating to Afghanistan and Pakistan.
As long as it is not here in the US, then let them migrate anywhere we can kill them.
http://thelazytriath...
There are numerous parallels
December 24, 2008 - 11:55 ET by KevroyThere are numerous parallels to the civil war. Generals were worried that if Lincoln did not win re-election, Dems would negotiate a peace settlement on terms favorable to the Confederacy that would grant them status as a country. In fact, Dems pushed hard for that throughout the war, claiming it was an unwinnable war. McClellan was suspected by many to be a traitor, failing to pursue the enemy when he had the chance and constantly dragging his feet. Thats why he was finally relieved of his command.
One of the strongest
December 24, 2008 - 12:46 ET by MidAmericaOne of the strongest paralells is that the democrats saw an opportunity to win an election by sabotaging the military effort thereby creating a defeat for President Lincoln. Sure they would have split the country in two but that was a minor matter when considering their own political fortunes. But on the other hand... maybe they were smarter than they knew. Without the South, the present day USA would be an identical twin to todays liberal Europe.
It's not really a parrallel its
December 24, 2008 - 13:52 ET by ahusserIt's because the Democrats, deep down, haven't changed that much and are pretty consistent. Corruption, treason, running away, and whining are their hallmarks then and now. I am somewhat amazed that we finished WWII considering the amount of casualties we suffered and the seemingly endlessness of the war.
The surprise attack by the Japanese before a declaration of war and the ensuing declaration of war by the Germans were mistakes of the first order by the Axis. Any other combination would most assuredly brought out the whiners after a time.
Change: When the winds of change blow hard enough, the most trivial of things can become deadly projectiles. From a Poster
Iraq is going to mutate
December 24, 2008 - 12:10 ET by RR GOPIraq is going to mutate from a 'Bush disaster' into an 'Obama victory'.
One of the 24% who thinks George W. Bush was a great President. One of the 89% who wants to bring back the stock and pillory.
"And unfortunately, you
December 24, 2008 - 12:11 ET by DaBird"And unfortunately, you know, from their point of view, Iraq hasn't turned out so well....."
That statement could very well apply to the Democrats as much as it does to al Qaeda.
Reason for Hope of Change.
December 24, 2008 - 12:52 ET by CTOn the dawn of the One's inauguration and the Age of Hope and Change there maybe nothing to feed and sustain the perverted hideous Mancow. The potential demise of the Mancow and it’s fellow denizens of low-life liberal scum Shuster, Olbermann and Matthews gives us all hope for the future.
Swell Analogy
December 24, 2008 - 14:17 ET by Agrarian-DecentralistColeman says, "This is not the first time Democrats have 'rallied' in opposition to a
wartime president -- they did the same during Lincoln's presidency...."
Now there's a historical analogy that hits on all cylinders: comparing a lack of enthusiasm among Copperhead Democrats for the American Civil War to the conclusion of many present-day Democrats that we didn't have a whole lot of business sacrificing American lives in another nation's civil war touched off by our own unnecessary invasion of that nation.
But as long as we're looking at history, let's remember Democrat FDR's pre-Pearl Harbor difficulties in arousing Republican "America Firsters" to recognize the threat posed by the Axis powers.
Yes I remember Roosevelt
December 24, 2008 - 14:34 ET by cocodrieStalin's best friend. Roosevelt gave Stalin eastern Europe on a silver platter. He also started the United States down the road to socialism and was a contributing factor in the great depression.
Good example, Agrarian-Decentralist
December 24, 2008 - 15:27 ET by Jack ColemanFDR would surely be appalled to see his Democratic Party firmly embracing the views of America Firsters.
That civil war in Iraq you referred to -- still raging, is it?
Todays Republican "American Firsters"
December 25, 2008 - 12:49 ET by CTThere is no greater spectacle of a backward looking reactionary (Republican?) asshat than Pat Buchanan. He may not be a rino, but he is no conservative. Seems like he's been drinking the msm koolaid lately probably looking for love.
Old habits are hard for
December 24, 2008 - 21:43 ET by bigtimerOld habits are hard for them to break, regardless of the stature of commander in chief.
That about sums it up perfectly as far as I am concerned with the dems.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh