Matthews Worries 'Right' Will Turn New Yorker Cover into T-Shirt

Matthews Worries 'Right' Will Turn New Yorker Cover into T-Shirt

By Geoffrey Dickens (Bio | Archive)
July 14, 2008 - 17:39 ET

On Monday's "Hardball" Chris Matthews was so upset about the New Yorker's cover, depicting Barack Obama in a turban and Michelle Obama toting an AK-47, because he feared "the right will be using that as t-shirt material within the next couple of weeks."

Matthews, along with The New Yorker's Ryan Lizza and the Atlantic Media's Ronald Brownstein also insulted all the non-New Yorker subscribers who didn't get the joke as unsophisticated, or as Lizza put it, "a little slow."

The following exchanges occurred on the July 14 edition of "Hardball:"

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CHRIS MATTHEWS: You know the trouble is to many people it reminds us of a Thomas Nast cartoon of the 19th century, where they showed Irish immigrants as monkeys. You know you can say, on a sophisticated level, that everybody gets the joke. But people who see that picture of him in the turban and his wife carrying an AK-47 and the big picture, a loving picture of Osama Bin Laden, an American flag burning in the fireplace. I'll bet you any money that the right will be using that as t-shirt material within the next couple of weeks.

...

MATTHEWS: We have 12 percent of this country who believe that Barack Obama took the oath of office as a U.S. Senator on the Koran. We've got 19 percent of other Americans, adding up to 31 percent, who really have doubts about his religious background who do think he might be a Muslim. This picture with him in the turban on, what's it gonna do?

RONALD BROWNSTEIN, ATLANTIC MEDIA: Well first of all, as, as Ryan said it's intended to be a comment on a comment. If you look at the subscription list of The New Yorker I'm guessing that short of Prius owners it's gonna be hard to find a, a demo-, a consumer demographic group that is gonna be more inclined toward Barack Obama. So I think they certainly felt that their readers were going to get that they were attempting to invalidate the right's portrayal of Obama by taking it to, what they saw, as the logical extreme of the arguments that are being made. Now whether people try to use the argument in another way, I don't know. But clearly the intent here is to disqualify these arguments by raising them to a level of absurdity. And I'm guessing, for their audience, that people who got that, people who subscribe to The New Yorker, probably are going to get that. Now whether others, you know, take it differently we can't say.

...

MATTHEWS: Well the problem, the problem, Ryan is and you're as smart as I am about this. Let's face it there are lot of people out there who want to believe he's a Muslim, who want to believe that he's too exotic to vote for, for a lot of ethnic reasons. They prefer to think of a guy named Osama Bin, not Osama, there I make the mistake. Barack Obama with a middle name "Hussein," as a Muslim, as someone who is exotic and un-American. It's useful to them to have this kind of art.

RYAN LIZZA, THE NEW YORKER: One way you push back at that Chris is to lampoon it. Is to make fun of this idea. Is to show people that it's absurd. And look for the people that didn't get the joke, that didn't understand the cover, I think the fact that it's been on cable, wall-to-wall, for all day today and all over the web and having people from the magazine explain it. You know we've, we're trying to help people get the joke for people who are a little slow.

—Geoffrey Dickens is the senior news analyst at the Media Research Center.

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What irony!!!!

July 14, 2008 - 17:42 ET by Mr. Kafir

Funny thing is, I'd buy that t-shirt!!!! The truth hurts doesn't it Chrissy???

"Israel and Palestine should have their countries taken away from them, put in timeout, until they can prove they can get along." - balboa, ignorant bastard, 3/17/08

he should be damn afraid...

July 14, 2008 - 18:09 ET by TruthMonger

I sure as hell hope they make these shirts - they're absolutely perfect!!!!!!!!!!!!!

please someone make millions of them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

although our brainiac McCain will condemn us for it of course

not the brightest bulb on the tree

Let's start lining up!

July 14, 2008 - 19:11 ET by goldenthroat

MK,

I would buy that T-shirt, too!

Since when was Osama Bama untouchable? He hides behind all the left-coast, bleeding-heart, 'do as I say, not as I do' liberal MSM and expects to be protected!

I wonder if ol' sissy Chrisy has anything going down his leg now?

Bring on the t-shirt! You and I will be the first in line to buy it!

BTW - I would like to know, too, if anyone has an inside track on how to get a hold of a "NoBama '08' bumper sticker?

"How can you be in two places at once when you're not anywhere at all?" - Firesign Theatre

NoBama stuff

July 14, 2008 - 22:16 ET by saw the light

Here ya go. I like the "appeasement tour" myself.

http://www.mccainstore.com/line_nobama.htm

Nobama, here we come!

July 14, 2008 - 23:29 ET by goldenthroat

STL,

You're awesome, baby! Thanks for the link. Time to order now!

Why the heck not? The

July 14, 2008 - 18:18 ET by motherbelt

Why the heck not? The lefties think it's cool to wear Tshirts with Che on them!

Shoot 'em all; let God sort 'em out! - Marge Simpson

You probably CAN buy one.

July 14, 2008 - 19:25 ET by scamorama

You probably CAN buy one. And a print, too!

http://www.cartoonbank.com/

Great Idea Chris!!!.....

July 14, 2008 - 17:50 ET by BEGRUNT

Thanks for the suggestion.....I'm sure we will see them by tomorrow......they'll sell like hotcakes!!

"If a man does his best, what else is there"?

General George S. Patton Jr.

anyone have a Rush account?

July 14, 2008 - 18:45 ET by TruthMonger

anyone have a Rush account? send a request to the boss - he could make it part of the club gitmo gear, maybe?

Well Chris,...

July 14, 2008 - 17:54 ET by on-the-rocks

we "Right Wingers" didn't created the damn magazine cover, did we? Ya'll put it out there and it will gain a "life of its own".

We didn't create the original "Willy Horton" ad either, but the MSM has lied about it to the point that many think Republicans gave birth it, rather than giving credit to Al Gore, where credit is due, for once.

The editorial board had plenty of time to think to themselves "Maybe we shouldn't go there. Let's run another cover, instead."

Just because us folks in "fly-over country" don't read New Yorker on a regular basis (maybe once a year, at the most), it doesn't mean it is "over-our-heads". Maybe we just got better things to read and better things to spend our money on.

I am getting tired of this "sophistication" stuff as if the MSM and their cohorts have the market cornered.

On-the-rocks: "we "Right

July 14, 2008 - 19:14 ET by Galvanic

On-the-rocks: "we "Right Wingers" didn't created the damn magazine cover, did we? Ya'll put it out there and it will gain a "life of its own".

Spot on, OTR. Once again, a liberal media makes disparaging commentary on liberals -- in this case, Sen. and Mrs. Obama -- and Matthews is shifting the blame to the Right with the T-Shirt suggestion. Is only regret is that the Right will use the cartoon published on the New Yorker's front cover by the Left.

And how does he do it? By telling us that the liberals are sophisticated enough to get the humor, but conservatives aren't. Let's not forget that this is the same weenie who gets a tingle up his leg at the sound of Obama's voice --- sophisticated?

Maybe we need a T-Shirt with a Matthews monkey on it. I'd buy it.

Barack = Boss Tweed

July 14, 2008 - 18:02 ET by Firmworm

Nast's drawings depicted Boss Tweed as a corrupt politician. Nast's attacks were so relentless that at one point Tweed dispatched his cronies with instructions to, "Stop them damn pictures. I don't care what the papers write about me. My constituents can't read. But, damn it, they can see the pictures." It was also reported that Tweed offered Nast bribes to "take an extended European vacation" in order to try and get the pictures to stop.

We're Sorry!

July 14, 2008 - 18:02 ET by Texndoc

Remember after both Bush election victories there were websites of pitiful sad looking liberals with signs for the "world" that "we're sorry"?

I say start a website with photos of us right-wing "slow" people in New Yorker cover t-shirts. Rush should host it on his site.

We may not have to be as smart as Chris is about this and...

July 14, 2008 - 18:12 ET by Thalpy

We may not have to be as smart as Chris is about this and we can still put this cartoon on a shirt. We may not be as smart as Chris is, but lets do it! I have been hoping for this . I have always wanted this kind of art. I have always wanted Senator Obama to be a Muslim so I could vote against him. I wanted to find some exotic person to vote against. 12 plus 19 adds up to 31%. Just think, for all of this time I was just thinking that Obama was just a nut and that I should vote for someone else. Chris is so insightful!.

It's time for someone to take Chris back to his room now. Time for pills, and lights out.

And, once again, a story is

July 14, 2008 - 18:13 ET by Chris Norman

And, once again, a story is advanced by the media, against the Republicans, that the liberals are actually responsible for in the first place. With absolutely nothing to else to rely on, they start making stuff up.

McNotObama '08

HOW DARE THEY

July 14, 2008 - 18:14 ET by Redrowan2000

INCREDIBLE, THIS IS DEFINITELY ANTI -OBAMA--FIRST JESSE JACKSON WANTING TO CUT HIS NUTS OFF, NOW THE NEW YORKER MAKING HIM LOOK LIKE GUNGA DIN AND HIS WIFE LIKE A BLACK PATTY HEARST. BY THE WAY I THINK HEARST IS A REPUBLICAN. HOW DARE THE NEW YORKER EXPRESS FREE SPEECH ABOUT OBAMA--THE CHICKENS WILL COME HOME TO ROOST AGAINST THESE CARTOONISTS JUST LIKE THE MUSLIMS DID AGAINST THE CARTOONISTS WHO PICTURED MOHAMMED. LIKE SPIKE SAID THIS WILL BE A CHOCOLATE CITY. SO KEEP IT UP YOU WHITEY BIGOTS. YOU WILL ALL FALL INTO A BIG BLACK HOLE--OOPS CAN'T SAY THAT EITHER. WELL YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN THIS IS RACIST RACIST RACIST AND IF I KEEP TYPING THAT WORD IT REALLY WILL BECOME RACIST BECAUSE I SAID IT SO MANY TIMES.
"NIXONS THE ONE"
DICK TUCK

Chrissy stole...

July 14, 2008 - 18:19 ET by Clear thinker

the T-Shirt idea from the HuffPo site today. One of the early posters this AM actually said the exact same thing. And I just happen to have posted it here earlier today.

UPDATE: Here's the quote I took from HuffPo... "How long before it shows up as a best-seller T-shirt (by people for whom it's NOT satire, it's Truth)?"

45 Communist Goals for America http://www.nationmakers.com/com_goals.htm

I'm trying to wrap my head

July 14, 2008 - 18:22 ET by Crash

I'm trying to wrap my head around Chris' lefty logic (if you will allow me the leeway concerning logic?).Chris thinks that a left-winged rag editor who tastelessly published the COVER cartoon is okay for the ha, ha,"satire." But, his loony imagination has right-wingers ready to capitalize on this droll, tasteless attempt at humor.

Like it or not Chris, Barrack Hussein Obama could very well be my next president and I will not make tasteless references to the level YOUR PARTY has with our current President of the United States of America, and his staff.

careful dude - once you get

July 14, 2008 - 18:46 ET by TruthMonger

careful dude - once you get inside his head there's no turning back baby

careful dude - once you get

July 14, 2008 - 18:47 ET by TruthMonger

careful dude - once you get inside his head there's no turning back baby

I know, I know. It's like

July 14, 2008 - 19:32 ET by Crash

I know, I know. It's like trying heroin "just once" ... it's always a bad idea.

T-shirt my arse.Let's get

July 14, 2008 - 18:29 ET by the struggler

T-shirt my arse.Let's get tattoos

T shirts are very ez to print..coffee cups too

July 14, 2008 - 18:32 ET by upcountrywater

Several websites are already set-up for this.. All one does is email a picture and then order the pictue printed on a t shirt coffee cup whatever. LMAO

Liberals62%

IranianUranium

cafe press but if its run

July 14, 2008 - 18:48 ET by TruthMonger

cafe press

but if its run by libs they will ban it fer sure - being the party of free speech and all

UCW

July 14, 2008 - 20:44 ET by Delsa

I am deffinatly in for the coffee cup. I love the idea and will send it off to rush.

The cartoonist may not let us use it? If it is in the public domain is it fair game?

delsa, Most of the places are totally automated..

July 14, 2008 - 20:58 ET by upcountrywater

One may be luckey enough to get their project printed and shipped before anyone see or cares.. yea all that copy right stuff to comply with, much more important than national security secrets.

Liberals62%

IranianUranium

It's not Patty Hearst

July 14, 2008 - 18:37 ET by iconoclast

"NOW THE NEW YORKER MAKING HIM LOOK LIKE GUNGA DIN AND HIS WIFE LIKE A
BLACK PATTY HEARST. BY THE WAY I THINK HEARST IS A REPUBLICAN."

I believe they were shooting for Angela Davis, not Patty Hearst.

Looks like the liberals are shooting themselves in the foot again. So much for superior intellect, eh? These left wing media people are so arrogant. lol.

According to last week's Newseek poll, Obama and McCain are virtually tied. Last month Obama was 15 points ahead. That is a huge shift.

To think, Obama has the media, and the majority of the colleges, in his pocket, and the best he can do is to be in a virtual tie with McCain? He should be very very worried.

Your right there are so many to choose from

July 14, 2008 - 18:57 ET by Redrowan2000

It could have been recently released Kathy Boudin responsible for 2 innocent deaths in the Brinks robbery. Another Obama supporter and i'm sure the other people of color that were involved in that robbery and murder who are still alive are going to be out there gettin the vote out for Hussein.

Don't let the bastards grind you down."

Red

Contemplating Obama

July 14, 2008 - 18:40 ET by needle

“MATTHEWS: We have 12 percent of this country who believe that Barack Obama took the oath of office as a U.S. Senator on the Koran. We've got 19 percent of other Americans, adding up to 31 percent, who really have doubts about his religious background who do think he might be a Muslim. This picture with him in the turban on, what's it gonna do?”

Yeh, and we even have one guy who experienced a "thrill going up [his] leg" upon contemplating Obama. What is this picture going to do for him?

Impunitas semper ad deteriora invitat.

we also have people

July 14, 2008 - 18:52 ET by TruthMonger

we also have people thinking we've lost in Iraq, the world hates us, that Bush secretly planned 9/11, the US military does torture, spies on Americans, and works for Haliburton - based out of area 51 - which houses aliens - so where do they get all this idiotic stuff anyway, matthews......?!?!?!!??!?

2 separate questions

July 14, 2008 - 19:22 ET by general company

2 separate questions 1 with 12% response the other with 19%, isn't it likely that some of these folks supported both responses? Not 31% as Crissy Matt suggest. He must be in full panic mode to come up with this kinda BS.

No doubt his pal Oberdude will tell us how the White House is tied into this

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

Probably outside Chris’s area of competence.

July 14, 2008 - 20:42 ET by needle

I noticed this too, but preferred to focus on the irony of the situation.

If one thinks about this analytically for a moment, probably almost all of the “12%” overlaps with the “19%”, resulting in a cumulative low 20+%. My bet is this kind of analytical thinking is probably outside Chris’s area of competence.

Impunitas semper ad deteriora invitat.

general,

July 14, 2008 - 21:03 ET by DEVILDOCMOM

my thought is that these people, whatever the percentage, might all be dims or any on the left. I truly resent the implication that they are on the right.

Isn't he always in panic mode? Doesn't that feeling up his leg cause that?

Isn't

July 14, 2008 - 18:58 ET by 10ksnooker

Isn't the New Yorker a Hillary supporter? That would explain a lot.

He called him Osama too.

July 14, 2008 - 19:18 ET by dronetek

Newsbusters,

He also called Obama, Osama after being offended by the cover. You must get video of that.

For the 1st time in My Life, I am PROUD of the New Yorker..

July 14, 2008 - 19:20 ET by JayTee

The MSM, way back when, Discounted Huckabee because of his Name, Claiming no one named "Huckabee" could ever be elected President.

Looks like no one named "Hussein" can be elected, Either.

As far as the "Learned" staff of the New Yorker goes, looks like they don't have enought COMMON SENSE to be a Democrat.

As Political Cartoons go, this is a GOOD one !!!!

The Republican Revolution will not be Televised

Great line Jay Tee!

July 14, 2008 - 19:22 ET by Dee Bunk

I wish I'd have thought of it. ; ) I'm sure we won't be proud of the article inside though.

"Constantly attacking (peaceful) religions rather than politely sharing your own shows lack of faith " DB

DeeBun...Notice I said "of" not "Be a"

July 14, 2008 - 19:30 ET by JayTee

Hmmm....who lives in NY, that hates Obama ? Bill C. ? A pissed off Senator maybe ?

This wouldn't be sabotage unless the MSM wasn't pushing it.....the Mag. isn't even on the News Stands, and MSM is Broadcasting it.

Maybe the MSM wanted to "Stop" the Free Press ? Stop the publication before it hit the streets ? I guess they Screwed up...Bush Bashing mentality got the best of them....they can't stop themselves.

Uhhh....I live on the West Coast...can someone send me a copy ??

The Republican Revolution will not be Televised

JT - It will be interesting to see if it makes it to

July 14, 2008 - 19:38 ET by Dee Bunk

the newsstands. I'm not sure but I think it should be available at bookstores throughout the country. I know that the ones in Chicago have it.

"Constantly attacking (peaceful) religions rather than politely sharing your own shows lack of faith " DB

No surprise

July 14, 2008 - 19:52 ET by KC Mulville

A little earlier today, in another post, I wondered how long it would take some media hack to try to pin this on the GOP, even though this was created by liberals, published by liberals, discussed and outraged by liberals, and analyzed by liberals. The GOP and conservatives aren't even remotely involved.

No surprise that Matthews wins the prize. The ink wasn't dry before he managed it.

Yup

July 14, 2008 - 20:00 ET by nwahs

Created by liberals, misunderstood by liberals, and promoted by liberals. Conservatives are just watching them self destruct because of their Achilles heel - their existence is determined by what others think of them.

Their self destruction is lot funnier than the pretentious cartoon.

Excellent, "their

July 14, 2008 - 20:36 ET by general company

Excellent, "their existence is determined by what others think of them". I love it.

"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg

So the voters can't get their facts straight

July 14, 2008 - 20:25 ET by TheHistorian

Chris gets outraged when the voters don't get their facts straight. How about when Obama can't even get his plan for Iraq straight, or even explain it? Where is Chris' complaint? The average voter is out there trying to earn a living and raise his children on the little bit the Federal, state, and local governments let him retain. What is Chris' and Obama's excuse for their lack of knowlege? Do they believe like the middle ages, that "silly" is a good adjective?

Chris, if you are such a good commentator, educate the people. Take some time off from your "Worst Person in America" BS and actually educate them about facts, not just your half-baked opinions. But to sit around and cry just shows you for the big baby whiner you are.

"What experience and history teach is
this - that people and governments never have learned anything from history,
or acted on principles deduced from it."

G. W. F. Hegel

THANKS CHRIS

July 14, 2008 - 20:37 ET by

I will now, good tip!!

"Television is where you watch people in your living room that you would not want near your house." Groucho

Chris has a great idea

July 14, 2008 - 20:38 ET by Delsa

Where can I go to get one?

Real estate in Florida? call me.

A political hack named

July 14, 2008 - 21:20 ET by ConservativeRex

A political hack named Barack

Was lampooned by a mag on the rack

He cried "I'm for change",

As he went down in flames

Now he's back in the hood smokin' crack.

ConservativeRex

July 14, 2008 - 22:28 ET by Rovin

Chicago lore at it's finest!!!! Nice.

Rovin

Now Tee shirts are outlawed??

July 14, 2008 - 22:20 ET by Cho Yi Fan

If there was picture on the cover of the New Yorker showing a conservative republican in a poor light there would be a tee shirt on the street the day that issue hit the stands. If some art work on the cover of a magazine is so offensive to Obama's supporters then maybe the goo goos on the left need some self esteem counseling.

Or maybe they are offended because the cover is spot on. Like the song said "Every Picture tells a story dont it?"

"A man may be killed but never humiliated."-Shaolin proverb

What "Thrilla" needs to

July 14, 2008 - 22:25 ET by jdhawk

What "Thrilla" needs to worry about is what liberal outlet will publish the picture on a t-shirt.

Thought this was apropo: http://www.ibdeditorials.com/Cartoons.aspx

bambi, "Ich bin ein beginner!"

Joke bombs

July 14, 2008 - 23:16 ET by nkviking75

I've always said, if you have to explain the joke, it ain't funny.

Another Michelle, Ms. Malkin, puts this whole kerfuffle in perspective.

When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.

T-Shirts are here!

July 14, 2008 - 23:19 ET by bruce3809

That didn't take long! The Cafe Press has the shirts:

http://t-shirts.cafepress.com/item/black-tshirt-obama-new-yorker-cover/37012752

>>>Chris Matthews was so

July 14, 2008 - 23:27 ET by seanrobins

>>>Chris Matthews was so upset about the New Yorker's cover, depicting Barack Obama in a turban and Michelle Obama toting an AK-47, because he feared "the right will be using that as t-shirt material within the next couple of weeks."

Chris: You always did have the best ideas!

He's just guaranteed that the shirt will be made, and will be a big seller. Keep an eye on Cafe Press!

sean robins
blog.seanrobins.com

We should call it the Chris Matthews T shirt

July 15, 2008 - 00:41 ET by DaMav

gotta love it. Hope they sell out

Of course Matthews

July 15, 2008 - 00:27 ET by bigtimer

Of course Matthews worries...(I saw his show regarding this)

He knows the internals of all the real polls regarding his messiah...

He will be pissing up a rope around Oct. 3rd...

I can't wait to watch...as it is rubbing him raw with his own salt content added.

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

classic: "...we're trying to help people get the joke..."

July 15, 2008 - 00:35 ET by DaMav

Lizza says, "...we're trying to help people get the joke for people who are a little slow...".

Obviously nobody is slower in this regard than the Obama Campaign and their "tingle up my leg" supporters. I've heard a lot more laughter about this matter today from the right than I have heard from the left. I guess that shows who is a "little slow". rofl

Ron Brownstein, a liberal

July 15, 2008 - 00:37 ET by Rush Fan

Ron Brownstein, a liberal through and through, hasn’t changes since he was a national affairs columnist for The Los Angeles Times. This is what he wrote recently in the National Journal Magazine in making the case for voting for Barack Obama: “For such voters, whose intellectual achievements have carried them to comfortable lives, faith in Obama's intelligence trumps any concern about his level of experience.”

---------------------------------------

"They are actively promoting the decline of America." ~ Rush Limbaugh on liberals and Democrats

Ron has never been right

July 15, 2008 - 00:43 ET by bigtimer

Ron has never been right about anything...

I truly smile, laugh if I do take the time to listen to the little leftist mind-numbing, mind-dumbing twit....have since his simple beginning, mainly television wise with CNN.

A real Whiz-bang Wonder-Boy Deluxe .

I'm still shaking my head as I post this, smiling though.

laugh "America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

Hi bigtimer

July 15, 2008 - 01:02 ET by Rush Fan

Just discovered some interesting information about Brownstein's wife:

Howard Kurtz: "Brownstein was a classic beat reporter at the Times, but was somewhat constrained after his wife joined John McCain's staff and shifted to the role of op-ed columnist."

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Which political party is invested in our defeat in Iraq?

RF... ROFLMAO! Now this

July 15, 2008 - 01:18 ET by bigtimer

RF...

ROFLMAO!

Now this fits perfectly doesn't it...anyway from my perspective when it comes to McCain and his crew...forget Ron, btw...who the heck is his wife...the link never mentioned her name...

I can't believe somebody was dumb enough to marry him, but then again look at Carville.

thank for the info though...I'm just trying to catch up here...been gone for the most part since last night, and well, heck if your an addict of NB just that short of a time takes awhile to get where you left off, catching up on today's topics and threads, plus just trying to remember what you heard politically elsewhere that you wanted to be able to add to, and possibly have time or feel like putting a link in if you take the time to look it up and put on the site...

....as you can tell...I haven't made it that far.

Btw...it may be elsewhere already but I heard today that a huge bigwig on the LAT's resigned today...I heard it had to do with Tony Snow comments ect....I only heard bits adn pieces and will try to have time more tomorrow to post about it if I don't see it anywhere.

"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh

bigtimer

July 15, 2008 - 02:28 ET by Rush Fan

Yes, Los Angeles Times Publisher David D. Hiller resigned. He indicated it was not his choice: A statement he e-mailed to Times staff suggested that he was ousted by Tribune Chairman and Chief Executive Sam Zell: "Sam's the boss and he gets to pick his own quarterback."
here and here are a couple links to stories about his ouster.

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Which political party is invested in our defeat in Iraq?