Toeing the "Green is Universal," corporate line, MSNBC's Chris Matthews seemed shocked that anyone would dare question whether climate change was real. During a discussion about John McCain's eco-friendly rhetoric the "Hardball" host was dismayed when conservative radio talk show host Heidi Harris called it a move "to the left," as Matthews decried: "You think climate change is an ideological issue?!"
The following exchange occurred on the May 13 edition of "Hardball:"
Story Continues Below Ad ↓HEIDI HARRIS, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: But, but here's the ultimate thing Republicans never get credit for going over to the left. This happens all the time. They try to pander to the left. Going a little more--
CHRIS MATTHEWS: You think climate change is, is an ideological issue?!
HARRIS: Absolutely, absolutely I do.
MATTHEWS: It is?!
HARRIS: And I, and I don't think you, as a Republican ever get credit for trying to lean to the left. They still just--
MATTHEWS: Well.
HARRIS: –then, then they blast you for not holding the conservative line.
MATTHEWS: Well there are a lot of corporations, Heidi, let me, you have a right to your opinion. You're good at this. But I gotta tell you something. There are a lot of U.S. corporations, which are hardly lefty, who believe that being green is smart. They think it's the right policy.
HARRIS: Well I think being green is, well, listen I don' want the Earth to be dirty, believe me. But I also don't believe that mankind and my SUV, that I'm going to get into as soon as I leave here, is polluting the Earth to the point where I'm going to destroy the Earth. I don't believe that, I don't buy that.
MATTHEWS: No, not single-handedly but by the thousands maybe. Well get yourself a Smart Car and we'll ride around it together.
—Geoffrey Dickens is the senior news analyst at the Media Research Center.
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
CHRIS MATTHEWS: You think
May 13, 2008 - 17:26 ET by NewsbusterbrownCHRIS MATTHEWS: You think climate change is, is an ideological issue?!
You better believe it, you nimrod!
“There are no easy answers' but there are simple answers. We must have the courage to do what we know is morally right.” - Ronald Reagan (1964 Republican Convention)
yes "green is smart" -
May 14, 2008 - 12:51 ET by TruthMongeryes "green is smart" - Repubs have owned this for a very long time
and matthews et al are pretty late to the party...
I really wish Repub talking heads would bring this up more on matthews hard bull, etc
Conservationist Teddy Roosevelt established the national park system...
Nixon set up the EPA in the early 70's...
and so-called "climate-change" was recently invented by snake-oil sales tycoon Al Gore, who also "invented" the internet:)
According to Bush, it's internets...
May 14, 2008 - 14:40 ET by SyriusTM,
...and with Ted Stevens(R-Alaska) thinking it's a series of tubes!
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
it is a series of tubes,
May 14, 2008 - 15:25 ET by TruthMongerit is a series of tubes, actually:)...
and technically several internets...
but that's nitpickin'
One liner to describe it
May 13, 2008 - 17:38 ET by 10ksnookerPay more taxes and the government will pretend to control the weather. You got to be pretty dense to buy that.
If Matthews expresses
May 13, 2008 - 18:05 ET by Chris NormanIf Matthews expresses amazement that "Global Warming" is an ideological issue that not everyone acknowledges is real, he is either being disingenuous, is hopelessly uninformed for someone who is supposed to be a political expert, or is living in a liberal dream bubble where reality doesn't intrude. My favorite choice, though, is his extreme infatuation with Obama has rendered him a blubbering mess.
CN - "blubbering mes" is a bit harsh
May 13, 2008 - 20:26 ET by FastEdand it creates images of whales who are despolying the earth - nevermind, that seems right.
As to being a "political expert" - expert being defined as follows:
ex = unknown
(s)pert = drip
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
Mathews needs to read the AGW Skeptic's Guide
May 13, 2008 - 17:49 ET by PopularTechSkeptics believe in climate change just not that man-made CO2 is the primary driver or there is any remote chance of a catastrophy. Mathews would do well to get educated on this:
Climate of Fear (Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT)
The Case for Skepticism on Global Warming (Michael Crichton, A.B. Anthropology, M.D. Harvard)
Climate chaos? Don't believe it (Christopher Monckton, The Daily Telegraph, UK)
Guides:
A Global Warming Primer (PDF) (National Center for Policy Analysis)
A Skeptic’s Guide to Debunking Global Warming Alarmism (PDF) (US Senate Environment & Public Works Committee)
A Skeptical Layman's Guide to Anthropogenic Global Warming (PDF) (Climate Skeptic)
Global Warming FAQ (PDF) (Competitive Enterprise Institute)
Global Warming: Science vs. Nonsense (PDF) (EIR Economics)
Myths:
Fallacies about Global Warming (Science & Public Policy Institute)
Global Warming Myths (Friends of Science)
Green Myths On Global Warming - Debunked (The Association of British Drivers, UK)
Heartland President Debunks Global Warming Myths (The Heartland Institute)
Myths and Facts About the Environment (National Center for Public Policy Research)
Myths of Global Warming (National Center for Policy Analysis)
The Global Warming Myth? (John Stossel, ABC News)
Top 10 Environmental Myths (PDF) (U.S. Chamber of Commerce)
Top 10 'Global-Warming' Myths (Human Events)
Papers:
A Climate of Belief (PDF) (Patrick Frank, Ph.D. Chemistry)
Apocalypse Cancelled (PDF) (Christopher Monckton, Former Policy Advisor for British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher)
Carbon Dioxide is not the primary cause of global warming (PDF) (Allan M.R. MacRae, B.Sc., M.Eng.)
Carbon Emissions Don’t Cause Global Warming (PDF) (David Evans, B.Sc. Physics, M.S. Statistics, Ph.D. Engineering)
Climate Change Re-examined (PDF) (Joel M. Kauffman, Ph.D. Organic Chemistry, MIT)
Climate Science: Climate Change and Its Impacts (PDF) (David R. Legates, Ph.D. Climatology)
CO2: The Greatest Scientific Scandal of Our Time (PDF) (Zbigniew Jaworowski, M.D. Ph.D. D.Sc.)
Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide (PDF) (Arthur Robinson, Ph.D. Chemistry)
Global Warming and Nature's Thermostat (Roy Spencer, Ph.D. Meteorology)
Is the Sky Really Falling? A Review of Recent Global Warming Scare Stories (PDF) (Patrick J. Michaels, Ph.D. Ecological Climatology)
Is There a Basis for Global Warming Alarm? (Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT)
Nature, Not Human Activity, Rules the Climate (PDF) (S. Fred Singer, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus of Environmental Sciences)
The Acquittal of Carbon Dioxide (Jeffrey A. Glassman, Ph.D. Applied Physicist and Engineer)
The Increase in Global Temperature: What it Does and Does Not Tell Us (PDF) (Robert C. Balling Jr., Ph.D. Professor of Climatology)
The Myth of Dangerous Human Caused Climate Change (PDF) (Robert (Bob) M. Carter, B.Sc. Geology, Ph.D. Paleontology)
The Science Isn't Settled - The Limitations of Global Climate Models (PDF) (Timothy (Tim) F. Ball, Ph.D. Historical Climatologist)
Videos:
20/20: Give Me a Break: Global Warming (Video) (8min)
The Great Global Warming Swindle (Video) (1hr 14min)
CNN: Exposed: Climate of Fear (Video) (42min)
Bullshit! - Environmental Hysteria (Video) (29min)
CBC: Documentary: Doomsday Called Off (Video) (44min)
George Carlin - The Planet is Fine (Adults Only) (Video) (8min)
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
A few places to take that 'data' and discuss it
May 14, 2008 - 19:45 ET by Giles WinterbourneA rather odd collection of non-science 'reports', people writing outside of their area of expertise, unpublished and not reviewed papers, sites with dubious, at best, connections....
Here is a list of sites with more credibility:
Let us know how the debates went.
An easy to follow discussion of The Basics of Climate Prediction (Oxford University)
A few places to get real data
May 14, 2008 - 20:49 ET by PopularTechClimate Audit (Stephen McIntyre, B.Sc. Mathematics, Canada)
Environmental Capital (The Wall Street Journal)
ICECAP (International Climate and Environmental Change Assessment Project, USA)
Junk Science (Steve Milloy, B.A. Natural Sciences, M.S. Health Sciences, USA)
The Reference Frame (Luboš Motl, Ph.D. Theoretical Physicist, Czech Republic)
Watts Up With That? (Anthony Watts, Meteorologist, USA)
- SurfaceStations.org
World Climate Report (Patrick J. Michaels, Ph.D. Ecological Climatology, USA)
Climate Police (Joseph Conklin, M.S. Meteorology, USA)
Climate Science (Roger A. Pielke, Ph.D. Meteorology, USA)
Comment & Information on Climate Change (Robert (Bob) M. Carter, B.Sc. Geology, Ph.D. Paleontology, Australia)
EcoMyths (Graham Smith, Associate Professor of Geography, University of Western Ontario, Canada)
Greenie Watch (John J. Ray, Ph.D. Psychology, Mensa Member, Australia)
Johnston's Archive - Environmental Topics (Wm. Robert Johnston, B.A. Astronomy, M.S. Physics, USA)
Number Watch (John Brignell, Ph.D. Professor Emeritus Electronics & Computer Science, UK)
Prometheus - The Science Policy Blog (Roger A. Pielke (Jr.), Ph.D. Political Science, USA)
Ross McKitrick (Ross McKitrick, Ph.D. Economics, Canada)
Science & Environmental Policy Project (S. Fred Singer, Ph.D. Physics, USA)
ScienceBits (Nir J. Shaviv, Ph.D. Astrophysicist, Israel)
Science is Broken (Gary Novak, M.S. Microbiology, USA)
The Global Warming Challenge (J. Scott Armstrong, B.A. Applied Science, B.S. Industrial Engineering, Ph.D. MIT, USA)
The Politics and Environment Blog (Jennifer Marohasy, Ph.D. Biology, Australia)
William M. Briggs (William M. Briggs, B.S. Meteorology and Math, M.S. Atmospheric Science, Ph.D. Statistics, USA)
Climate Change Fraud (USA)
Climate Skeptic (USA)
CO2 Science (Center for the Study of Carbon Dioxide and Global Change, USA)
CO2 Skeptics (UK)
Environment North Carolina (John Locke Foundation, USA)
Facts on Energy (Institute for Energy Research, USA)
Friends of Science (Canada)
Global Warming.org (The Cooler Heads Coalition, USA)
Global Warming and the Climate (Norway)
Global Warming Debunking News and Views (Oregon Institute of Science and Medicine, USA)
- Global Warming Petition Project
Global Warming Heartland (The Heartland Institute, USA)
Global Warming Hyperbole (USA)
Global Warming Hysteria (UK)
Global Warming Information Center (National Center for Public Policy Research, USA)
Global Warming Skeptics (USA)
Models, Methods, Software
Not by Fire but by Ice (USA)
PERC - Property and Environment Research Center (USA)
Planet Gore (National Review Online, USA)
Ponder the Maunder (USA)
US Senate Environment & Public Works Committee (USA)
Science & Public Policy Institute (USA)
Spiked - Environment (UK)
Still Waiting for Greenhouse (Australia)
TCS Daily - Energy and Environment (USA)
TCS Daily - Science Roundtable (USA)
The Association of British Drivers - Environment (UK)
- Global Warming Links
The Global Warming Hoax (USA)
The New Zealand Climate Science Coalition (New Zealand)
Warming Scare Tactics
Warwick Hughes - Free Lance Science Research (Australia)
- Errors in IPCC Climate Science Blog
The debate went well the skeptics won:
Global Warming Debate - 'Global Warming Is Not a Crisis' (Video) (1hr 16min)
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Oh, gee. Another list
May 15, 2008 - 01:17 ET by Giles WinterbourneBut most reasonably intelligent people know that any one chapter of any of the IPCC reports contain 11-16 pages, two columns, single spaced of science paper citations documenting the writing and conclusions of that chapter.. Not to mention that each of those papers have their own list of citations. And not to mention all the scientific organization that support the same conclusions.
I guess one could take the Association of British Drivers' word for what it's worth..... Or believe in the possibility of a vast left-wing conspiracy to socialize the world...
Or, do a bit of research on the items in the list, the expertise and publishing history of the authors, their reputation in the field, their connections; then look at who cites them, their expertise, publishing history, their reputation, their connections....
That was a pretty fast response in posting that list; my guess-didn't try them out anywhere.
The IPCC and Intelligent People
May 15, 2008 - 22:04 ET by PopularTechAny reasonably intelligent person would know that the majority of papers referenced by the IPCC do not explicitly endorse AGW. It is laughably dishonest for you to imply that a paper's citations by default support the same theory.
I guess one could take the word of the hundreds of outspoken skeptical scientists on the issue.
Or do a bit of research and realize they are real scientists who have extensively published scientific research in the field of climatology and have been extensively smeared by people such as you.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
each piece referenced and reviewed
May 15, 2008 - 23:51 ET by Giles WinterbourneHowever, each piece referenced and reviewed in the IPCC reports adds to the body of evidence. And that list is far longer than the proffered ones posted here.
And, yup, any reasonably intelligent person can do the research on the expertise, the reputation, the connections of the authors of the papers in the IPCC reports and the lists being bandied around here. And they can look at the citation histories, comments on, and critiques.
Over 250 Peer-Reviewed Papers supporting AGW Skepticism
May 16, 2008 - 00:46 ET by PopularTechGiles, there is extensive Peer-Reviewed Papers Supporting Skepticism of "Man-Made" Global Warming:
Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide
(Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons, Volume 12, Number 3, 2007)
- Arthur B. Robinson, Noah E. Robinson, Willie Soon
Environmental Effects of Increased Atmospheric Carbon Dioxide
(Climate Research, Vol. 13, Pg. 149–164, October 26 1999)
- Arthur B. Robinson, Zachary W. Robinson, Willie Soon, Sallie L. Baliunas
Are observed changes in the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere really dangerous?
(Bulletin of Canadian Petroleum Geology,v. 50, no. 2, p. 297-327, June 2002)
- C. R. de Freitas
Can increasing carbon dioxide cause climate change?
(Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA, Vol. 94, pp. 8335-8342, August 1997)
- Richard S. Lindzen
Can we believe in high climate sensitivity?
(arXiv:physics/0612094v1, Dec 11 2006)
- J. D. Annan, J. C. Hargreaves
Climate change: Conflict of observational science, theory, and politics
(AAPG Bulletin, Vol. 88, no9, pp. 1211-1220, 2004)
- Lee C. Gerhard
- Climate change: Conflict of observational science, theory, and politics: Reply
(AAPG Bulletin, v. 90, no. 3, p. 409-412, March 2006)
- Lee C. Gerhard
Climate change in the Arctic and its empirical diagnostics
(Energy & Environment, Volume 10, Number 5, pp. 469-482, September 1999)
- V.V. Adamenko, K.Y. Kondratyev, C.A. Varotsos
Climate Change Re-examined
(Journal of Scientific Exploration, Vol. 21, No. 4, pp. 723–749, 2007)
- Joel M. Kauffman
CO2-induced global warming: a skeptic’s view of potential climate change
(Climate Research, Vol. 10: 69–82, 1998)
- Sherwood B. Idso
Crystal balls, virtual realities and 'storylines'
(Energy & Environment, Volume 12, Number 4, pp. 343-349, July 2001)
- R.S. Courtney
Dangerous global warming remains unproven
(Energy & Environment, Volume 18, Number 1, pp. 167-169, January 2007)
- R.M. Carter
Does CO2 really drive global warming?
(Energy & Environment, Volume 12, Number 4, pp. 351-355, July 2001)
- R.H. Essenhigh
Does human activity widen the tropics?
(arXiv:0803.1959v1, Mar 13 2008)
- Katya Georgieva, Boian Kirov
Earth's rising atmospheric CO2 concentration: Impacts on the biosphere
(Energy & Environment, Volume 12, Number 4, pp. 287-310, July 2001)
- C.D. Idso
Evidence for "publication Bias" Concerning Global Warming in Science and Nature
(Energy & Environment, Volume 19, Number 2, pp. 287-301, March 2008)
- Patrick J. Michaels
Falsification Of The Atmospheric CO2 Greenhouse Effects Within The Frame Of Physics
(Physics, arXiv:0707.1161)
- Gerhard Gerlich, Ralf D. Tscheuschner
Global Warming
(Progress in Physical Geography, 27, 448-455, 2003)
- W. Soon, S. L. Baliunas
Global Warming: The Social Construction of A Quasi-Reality?
(Energy & Environment, Volume 18, Number 6, pp. 805-813, November 2007)
- Dennis Ambler
Global warming and the mining of oceanic methane hydrate
(Topics in Catalysis, Volume 32, Numbers 3-4, pp. 95-99, March 2005)
- Chung-Chieng Lai, David Dietrich, Malcolm Bowman
Global Warming: Forecasts by Scientists Versus Scientific Forecasts
(Energy & Environment, Volume 18, Numbers 7-8, pp. 997-1021, December 2007)
- Keston C. Green, J. Scott Armstrong
Global Warming: Myth or Reality? The Actual Evolution of the Weather Dynamics
(Energy & Environment, Volume 14, Numbers 2-3, pp. 297-322, May 2003)
- M. Leroux
Global Warming: the Sacrificial Temptation
(arXiv:0803.1239v1, Mar 10 2008)
- Serge Galam
Global warming: What does the data tell us?
(arXiv:physics/0210095v1, Oct 23 2002)
- E. X. Alban, B. Hoeneisen
Human Contribution to Climate Change Remains Questionable
(Eos, Transactions American Geophysical Union, Volume 80, Issue 16, p. 183-183, April 20, 1999)
- S. Fred Singer
Industrial CO2 emissions as a proxy for anthropogenic influence on lower tropospheric temperature trends
(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 31, L05204, 2004)
- A. T. J. de Laat, A. N. Maurellis
Implications of the Secondary Role of Carbon Dioxide and Methane Forcing in Climate Change: Past, Present, and Future
(Physical Geography, Volume 28, Number 2, pp. 97-125(29), March 2007)
- Soon, Willie
Is a Richer-but-warmer World Better than Poorer-but-cooler Worlds?
(Energy & Environment, Volume 18, Numbers 7-8, pp. 1023-1048, December 2007)
- Indur M. Goklany
Methodology and Results of Calculating Central California Surface Temperature Trends: Evidence of Human-Induced Climate Change?
(Journal of Climate, Volume: 19 Issue: 4, February 2006)
- Christy, J.R., W.B. Norris, K. Redmond, K. Gallo
Modeling climatic effects of anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions: unknowns and uncertainties
(Climate Research, Vol. 18: 259–275, 2001)
- Willie Soon, Sallie Baliunas, Sherwood B. Idso, Kirill Ya. Kondratyev, Eric S. Posmentier
- Modeling climatic effects of anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions: unknowns and uncertainties. Reply to Risbey (2002)
(Climate Research, Vol. 22: 187–188, 2002)
- Willie Soon, Sallie Baliunas, Sherwood B. Idso, Kirill Ya. Kondratyev, Eric S. Posmentier
- Modeling climatic effects of anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions: unknowns and uncertainties. Reply to Karoly et al.
(Climate Research, Vol. 24: 93–94, 2003)
- Willie Soon, Sallie Baliunas, Sherwood B. Idso, Kirill Ya. Kondratyev, Eric S. Posmentier
On global forces of nature driving the Earth's climate. Are humans involved?
(Environmental Geology, Volume 50, Number 6, August 2006)
- L. F. Khilyuk and G. V. Chilingar
Phanerozoic Climatic Zones and Paleogeography with a Consideration of Atmospheric CO2 Levels
(Paleontological Journal, 2: 3-11, 2003)
- A. J. Boucot, Chen Xu, C. R. Scotese
Quantifying the influence of anthropogenic surface processes and inhomogeneities on gridded global climate data
(Journal of Geophysical Research, Vol. 112, D24S09, 2007)
- Ross R. McKitrick, Patrick J. Michaels
Quantitative implications of the secondary role of carbon dioxide climate forcing in the past glacial-interglacial cycles for the likely future climatic impacts of anthropogenic greenhouse-gas forcings
(arXiv:0707.1276, July 2007)
- Soon, Willie
Scientific Consensus on Climate Change?
(Energy & Environment, Volume 19, Number 2, pp. 281-286, March 2008)
- Klaus-Martin Schulte
Statistical analysis does not support a human influence on climate
(Energy & Environment, Volume 13, Number 3, pp. 329-331, July 2002)
- S. Fred Singer
Temperature trends in the lower atmosphere
(Energy & Environment, Volume 17, Number 5, pp. 707-714, September 2006)
- Vincent Gray
The Carbon dioxide thermometer and the cause of global warming
(Energy & Environment, Volume 10, Number 1, pp. 1-18, January 1999)
- N. Calder
The continuing search for an anthropogenic climate change signal: Limitations of correlation-based approaches
(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 24, No. 18, Pages 2319–2322, 1997)
- David R. Legates, Robert E. Davis
The "Greenhouse Effect" as a Function of Atmospheric Mass
(Energy & Environment, Volume 14, Numbers 2-3, pp. 351-356, 1 May 2003)
- H. Jelbring
The Interaction of Climate Change and the Carbon Dioxide Cycle
(Energy & Environment, Volume 16, Number 2, pp. 217-238, March 2005)
- A. Rörsch, R. Courtney, D. Thoenes
The IPCC: Structure, Processes and Politics Climate Change - the Failure of Science
(Energy & Environment, Volume 18, Numbers 7-8, pp. 1073-1078, December 2007)
- William J.R. Alexander
The UN IPCC's Artful Bias: Summary of Findings: Glaring Omissions, False Confidence and Misleading Statistics in the Summary for Policymakers
(Energy & Environment, Volume 13, Number 3, pp. 311-328, July 2002)
- Wojick D. E.
"The Wernerian syndrome"; aspects of global climate change; an analysis of assumptions, data, and conclusions
(Environmental Geosciences, v. 3, no. 4, p. 204-210, December 1996)
- Lee C. Gerhard
Uncertainties in assessing global warming during the 20th century: disagreement between key data sources
(Energy & Environment, Volume 17, Number 5, pp. 685-706, September 2006)
- Maxim Ogurtsov, Markus Lindholm
1,500-Year Climate Cycle:
A 150,000-year climatic record from Antarctic ice
(Nature 316, 591 - 596, 15 August 1985)
- C. Lorius, C. Ritz, J. Jouzel, L. Merlivat, N. I. Barkov
A Pervasive Millennial-Scale Cycle in North Atlantic Holocene and Glacial Climates
(Science, Vol. 278. no. 5341, pp. 1257 - 1266, 14 November 1997)
- Gerard Bond, William Showers, Maziet Cheseby, Rusty Lotti, Peter Almasi, Peter deMenocal, Paul Priore, Heidi Cullen, Irka Hajdas, Georges Bonani
A Variable Sun Paces Millennial Climate
(Science, Vol. 294. no. 5546, pp. 1431 - 1433, 16 November 2001)
- Richard A. Kerr
Cyclic Variation and Solar Forcing of Holocene Climate in the Alaskan Subarctic
(Science, Vol. 301. no. 5641, pp. 1890 - 1893, 26 September 2003)
- Feng Sheng Hu, Darrell Kaufman, Sumiko Yoneji, David Nelson, Aldo Shemesh, Yongsong Huang, Jian Tian, Gerard Bond, Benjamin Clegg, Thomas Brown
Decadal to millennial cyclicity in varves and turbidites from the Arabian Sea: hypothesis of tidal origin
(Global and Planetary Change, Volume 34, Issues 3-4, Pages 313-325, November 2002)
- W. H. Bergera, U. von Rad
Late Holocene approximately 1500 yr climatic periodicities and their implications
(Geology, v. 26; no. 5; p. 471-473, May 1998)
- Ian D. Campbell, Celina Campbell, Michael J. Apps, Nathaniel W. Rutter, Andrew B. G. Bush
Possible solar origin of the 1,470-year glacial climate cycle demonstrated in a coupled model
(Nature 438, 208-211, 10 November 2005)
- Holger Braun, Marcus Christl, Stefan Rahmstorf, Andrey Ganopolski, Augusto Mangini, Claudia Kubatzki, Kurt Roth, Bernd Kromet
The 1,800-year oceanic tidal cycle: A possible cause of rapid climate change
(PNAS, vol. 97, no. 8, 3814-3819, April 11, 2000)
- Charles D. Keeling, Timothy P. Whorf
The origin of the 1500-year climate cycles in Holocene North-Atlantic records
(Climate of the Past Discussions, Volume 3, Issue 2, pp.679-692, 2007)
-
M. Debret, V. Bout-Roumazeilles, F. Grousset, M. Desmet, J. F. McManus,
N. Massei, D. Sebag, J.-R. Petit, Y. Copard, A. Trentesaux
Timing of abrupt climate change: A precise clock
(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 30, No. 10, 2003)
- Stefan Rahmstorf
Timing of Millennial-Scale Climate Change in Antarctica and Greenland During the Last Glacial Period
(Science, Volume 291, Issue 5501, pp. 109-112, 2001)
- Thomas Blunier, Edward J. Brook
Widespread evidence of 1500 yr climate variability in North America during the past 14 000 yr
(Geology, v. 30, no. 5, p. 455-458, May 2002)
- André E. Viau, Konrad Gajewski, Philippe Fines, David E. Atkinson, Michael C. Sawada
An Inconvenient Truth:
An Inconvenient Truth : a focus on its portrayal of the hydrologic cycle
(GeoJournal, Volume 70, Number 1, September, 2007)
- David R. Legates
An Inconvenient Truth : blurring the lines between science and science fiction
(GeoJournal, Volume 70, Number 1, September 2007)
- Roy W. Spencer
Antarctica:
A doubling in snow accumulation in the western Antarctic Peninsula since 1850
(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 35, L01706, 2008)
- Elizabeth R. Thomas, Gareth J. Marshall, Joseph R. McConnell
First survey of Antarctic sub–ice shelf sediments reveals mid-Holocene ice shelf retreat
(Geology, v. 29; no. 9; p. 787-790, September 2001)
- Carol J. Pudsey, Jeffrey Evans
Orbitally induced oscillations in the East Antarctic ice sheet at the Oligocene/Miocene boundary
(Nature 413, 719-723, October 2001)
- Naish TR, Woolfe KJ, Barrett PJ, Wilson GS, Atkins C, Bohaty SM, Bücker CJ, Claps M, Davey FJ, Dunbar GB, Dunn AG, Fielding CR, Florindo F, Hannah MJ, Harwood DM, Henrys SA, Krissek LA, Lavelle M, van Der Meer J, McIntosh WC, Niessen F, Passchier S, Powell RD, Roberts AP, Sagnotti L, Scherer RP, Strong CP, Talarico F, Verosub KL, Villa G, Watkins DK,
Webb PN, Wonik T
Past and Future Grounding-Line Retreat of the West Antarctic Ice Sheet
(Science, Vol. 286. no. 5438, pp. 280 - 283, October 1999)
- H. Conway, B. L. Hall, G. H. Denton, A. M. Gades, E. D. Waddington
Snowfall-Driven Growth in East Antarctic Ice Sheet Mitigates Recent Sea-Level Rise
(Science, Vol. 308. no. 5730, pp. 1898 - 1901, 24 June 2005)
- Curt H. Davis, Yonghong Li, Joseph R. McConnell, Markus M. Frey, Edward Hanna
Arctic
Actual and insolation-weighted Northern Hemisphere snow cover and sea-ice between 1973–2002
(Climate Dynamics, Volume 22, Issue 6-7, pp. 591-595, 2004)
- R. Pielke, G. Liston, W. Chapman, D. Robinson
Scary Arctic Ice Loss? Blame the Wind
(Science, Vol. 307. no. 5707, p. 203, 14 January 2005)
- Richard A. Kerr
Sea-ice decline due to more than warming alone
(Nature 450, 27, 1 November 2007)
- Julia Slingo, Rowan Sutton
Clouds:
Cloud and radiation budget changes associated with tropical intraseasonal oscillations
(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 34, L15707, 2007)
- Roy W. Spencer, William D. Braswell, John R. Christy, Justin Hnilo
Does the Earth Have an Adaptive Infrared Iris?
(Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society, Volume 82, Issue 3, pp. 417–432, March 2001)
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ming-Dah Chou, and Arthur Y. Hou
CO2 lags Temperature changes:
180 years of atmospheric CO2 gas analysis by chemical methods
(Energy & Environment, Volume 18, Number 2, pp. 259-282(24), March 2007)
- Beck, Ernst-Georg
Atmospheric CO2 Concentrations over the Last Glacial Termination
(Science, Vol. 291. no. 5501, 5 January 2001)
-
Eric Monnin, Andreas Indermühle, André Dällenbach, Jacqueline
Flückiger, Bernhard Stauffer, Thomas F. Stocker, Dominique Raynaud,
Jean-Marc Barnola
Ice core records of atmospheric CO2 around the last three glacial terminations
(Science, Vol. 283. no. 5408, pp. 1712 - 1714, 12 March 1999)
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Seductive Simulations? Uncertainty Distribution Around Climate Models
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Global Cooling:
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New Little Ice Age Instead of Global Warming?
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Greenland:
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Greenland warming of 1920–1930 and 1995–2005
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Rapid Changes in Ice Discharge from Greenland Outlet Glaciers
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Recent Ice-Sheet Growth in the Interior of Greenland
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Hockey Stick:
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Corrections to the Mann et al (1998) Proxy Data Base and Northern Hemisphere Average Temperature Series
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The M&M Critique of the MBH98 Northern Hemisphere Climate Index: Update and Implications
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Hockey sticks, principal components, and spurious significance
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Highly variable Northern Hemisphere temperatures reconstructed from low- and high-resolution proxy data
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A 2000-year global temperature reconstruction based on non-treering proxies
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Bias and Concealment in the IPCC Process: The "Hockey-Stick" Affair and Its Implications
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Hurricanes:
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Causes of the Unusually Destructive 2004 Atlantic Basin Hurricane Season
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Counting Atlantic Tropical Cyclones Back to 1900
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Hurricanes and Global Warming
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Meteorology: Are there trends in hurricane destruction?
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Kyoto:
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Glacial geological evidence for the medieval warm period
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Late Holocene surface ocean conditions of the Norwegian Sea (Vøring Plateau)
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Reconstructing Climatic and Environmental Changes of the Past 1000 Years: A Reappraisal
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Sea Level:
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New perspectives for the future of the Maldives
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Snowfall-Driven Growth in East Antarctic Ice Sheet Mitigates Recent Sea-Level Rise
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Celestial Climate Driver: A Perspective from Four Billion Years of the Carbon Cycle
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- David H. Douglass, Benjamin D. Pearson, S. Fred Singer, Paul C. Knappenberger, Patrick J. Michaels
Differential trends in tropical sea surface and atmospheric temperatures since 1979
(Geophysical Research Letters, VOL. 28, NO. 1, PAGES 183–186, 2001)
- Christy, J.R., D.E. Parker, S.J. Brown, I. Macadam, M. Stendel, W.B. Norris
Documentation of uncertainties and biases associated with surface temperature measurement sites for climate change assessment.
(Amer. Meteor. Soc., 88:6, 913-928, 2007)
- Pielke Sr., R.A. J. Nielsen-Gammon, C. Davey, J. Angel, O. Bliss, N. Doesken, M. Cai., S. Fall, D. Niyogi, K. Gallo, R. Hale, K.G. Hubbard, X. Lin, H. Li, S. Raman
Does a Global Temperature Exist?
(Journal of Non-Equilibrium Thermodynamics, June 2006)
- Christopher Essex, Ross McKitrick, Bjarne Andresen
Estimation and representation of long-term (>40 year) trends of Northern-Hemisphere-gridded surface temperature: A note of caution
(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 31, L03209, 2004)
- Willie W.-H. Soon, David R. Legates, Sallie L. Baliunas
Nature of observed temperature changes across the United States during the 20th century
(Climate Research, Vol. 17: 45–53, 2001)
- Paul C. Knappenberger, Patrick J. Michaels, Robert E. Davis
Natural signals in the MSU lower tropospheric temperature record
(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 27, No. 18, pp. 2905–2908, 2000)
- Patrick J. Michaels, Paul C. Knappenberger
Observed warming in cold anticyclones
(Climate Research, Vol. 14: 1–6, 2000)
- Patrick J. Michaels, Paul C. Knappenberger, Robert C. Balling Jr, Robert E. Davis
Revised 21st century temperature projections
(Climate Research, Vol. 23: 1–9, 2002)
- Patrick J. Michaels, Paul C. Knappenberger, Oliver W. Frauenfeld, Robert E. Davis
Test for harmful collinearity among predictor variables used in modeling global temperature
(Climate Research, Vol. 24: 15-18, 2003)
- David H. Douglass, B. David Clader, John R. Christy, Patrick J. Michaels, David A. Belsley
Tropospheric temperature change since 1979 from tropical radiosonde and satellite measurements
(Journal of Geophysical Research, Vol. 112, D06102, 2007)
- John R. Christy, William B. Norris, Roy W. Spencer, Justin J. Hnilo
What may we conclude about global tropospheric temperature trends?
(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 31, L06211, 2004)
- Christy, J.R., W.B. Norris
Uncategorized:
A new dynamical mechanism for major climate shifts
(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 34, L13705, 2007)
- Anastasios A. Tsonis, Kyle Swanson, Sergey Kravtsov
Climate change 2007: Lifting the taboo on adaptation
(Nature 445, 597-598, 8 February 2007)
- Roger Pielke Jr, Gwyn Prins, Steve Rayner, Daniel Sarewitz
Floods, droughts and climate change
(S. Afr. J. Sci./Suid-Afr. Tydskr. Wet. Vol. 91, no. 8, pp. 403-408, Aug. 1995)
- Alexander, W J R
Global warming and malaria: a call for accuracy
(Lancet Infectious Diseases, Volume 4, Issue 6, Pages 323-324, June 2004)
- P. Reiter, C. Thomas, P. Atkinson, S. Hay, S. Randolph, D. Rogers, G. Shanks, R. Snow, A. Spielman
Global Warming and the Next Ice Age
(Science, Vol. 304. no. 5669, pp. 400 - 402, 16 April 2004)
- Andrew J. Weaver, Claude Hillaire-Marcel
Gulf Stream safe if wind blows and Earth turns
(Nature 428, 601, 8 April 2004)
- Carl Wunsch
Is global warming climate change?
(Nature 380, 478, 11 April 1996)
- Adrian H. Gordon, John A. T. Bye, Roland A. D. Byron-Scott
Measurement-based estimation of the spatial gradient of aerosol radiative forcing
(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 33, L11813, 2006)
- Toshihisa Matsui, Roger A. Pielke Sr.
Misdefining ‘‘climate change’’: consequences for science and action
(Environmental Science & Policy, Volume 8, Issue 6, Pages 548-561, December 2005)
- Roger A. Pielke, Jr.
No upward trends in the occurrence of extreme floods in central Europe
(Nature 425, 166-169, 11 September 2003)
- Manfred Mudelsee, Michael Börngen, Gerd Tetzlaff, Uwe Grünewald
Some Coolness Concerning Global Warming
(Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society, Volume 71, Issue 3, pp. 288–299, March 1990)
- Richard S. Lindzen
The Ever-Changing Climate System: Adapting to Challenges
(Cumberland Law Review, 36 No. 3, 493-504, 2006)
- Christy, J.R.
Very high-elevation Mont Blanc glaciated areas not affected by the 20th century climate change
(Journal of Geophysical Research, Vol. 112, D09120, 2007)
- C. Vincent, E. Le Meur, D. Six, M. Funk, M. Hoelzle, S. Preunkert
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Put the encyclopedia down
May 16, 2008 - 01:12 ET by CortillaenPut the encyclopedia down and step away!
This is just ridiculous. If Giles isn't going to let himself be swayed enough to actually look into your basic sources, I doubt showing him hundreds will change his mind. Once it becomes a matter of belief, the search is for justification, no matter how flimsy, twisted, or untrue, not for the possibility of being wrong.
www.rhjunior.com Great comics with a hefty dose of Christian and anti-nutjob goodness.
"With your mind as high as Mt. Fuji you can see all things clearly. And you can see all the forces that shape events; not just the things near to you." -Miyamoto Musashi
Pure and simple:
May 16, 2008 - 08:27 ET by Giles WinterbourneActually, I have looked at the 'basic sources'. And follow the delayer/denier/skeptic press somewhat closely. Belief has nothing to do with it.other than there being a striking similarity between that press and the c. church's insistence that the sun revolved around the earth.
Pure and simple: The 'basic' skeptic literature doesn't hold up to close scrutiny. The puny, extremely cherry-picked lists proffered here don't show the scope of evidence that is available in any one chapter of IPCC and in new publishing in every issue of reputable science journals that are indexed in ISI. The techniques used by many of the 'high priests' of the skeptic/denier belief system are questionable, disingenuous, sometimes border on libelous, and can often be linked to questionable motives and interests.
Take a closer look at the lists. Notice that the same names keep repeating, the same few journal titles, the unpublished papers that are often 'basic sources'. Then compare the long lists of different names, the long lists of names of reputable journals, the citation histories of the papers that are in the various chapters of the the IPCC reports and new publications.
Belief vs Science
May 16, 2008 - 18:04 ET by PopularTechIf you actually looked at the sources and understood how computers worked you would not be an alarmist. But you instead have chosen to believe first and then look at propaganda websites to confirm your belief.
The IPCC references many, many papers that do not explicitly endorse AGW. Many of these same papers are used by the Skeptics to make their case but the fact remains the IPCC is an interpretation of the available scientific literature and a very poor one at that. It is overly worded to the point of being ridiculous, includes nonsensical conclusions and is used by people who are unable to analize what is actually there to further their belief.
You relentless smear campaign is the only thing libelous.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
read more carefully - esp the stuff you're linking to
May 16, 2008 - 19:52 ET by Giles WinterbourneSo, how many of that massive 250 cite list are publications in ISI indexed journals? (ISI search) How many times do the same authors show up? A simple 'find' and 'find again' brings up than answer. What do the bios and CVs of those authors say to you? Are they writing in their respective areas of expertise? Do the publishers have a reputation for quality?
Actually, I have looked at the 'basic sources'. And follow the
delayer/denier/skeptic press somewhat closely. Belief has nothing to do
with it.other than there being a striking similarity between that press
and the c. church's insistence that the sun revolved around the earth.
Pure and simple: The 'basic' skeptic literature doesn't hold up to
close scrutiny. The puny, extremely cherry-picked lists proffered here
don't show the scope of evidence that is available in any one chapter
of IPCC and in new publishing in every issue of reputable science
journals that are indexed in ISI. The techniques used by many of the
'high priests' of the skeptic/denier belief system are questionable,
disingenuous, sometimes border on libelous, and can often be linked to
questionable motives and interests.
Take a closer look at the lists. Notice that the same names keep
repeating, the same few journal titles, the unpublished papers that are
often 'basic sources'. Then compare the long lists of different names,
the long lists of names of reputable journals, the citation histories
of the papers that are in the various chapters of the the IPCC reports
and new publications.
Repeat: This is Fun
May 16, 2008 - 19:53 ET by PopularTechIf you actually looked at the sources and understood how computers worked you would not be an alarmist. But you instead have chosen to believe first and then look at propaganda websites to confirm your belief.
The IPCC references many, many papers that do not explicitly endorse AGW. Many of these same papers are used by the Skeptics to make their case but the fact remains the IPCC is an interpretation of the available scientific literature and a very poor one at that. It is overly worded to the point of being ridiculous, includes nonsensical conclusions and is used by people who are unable to analize what is actually there to further their belief.
You relentless smear campaign is the only thing libelous.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
Ah, the usual suspects and the usual arguments.
May 16, 2008 - 20:32 ET by Giles WinterbourneAh, the usual suspects and the usual arguments.
Easy enough to check the area of expertise of the authors, their publishing histories, their connections. Easy enough to review the publishers, their histories, their connections. Easy enough to review the comments and critiques of the papers being proffered.
And a simple literature review will verify that data and papers used in vain attempts to debunk the findings of anthropogenic global warming is, in actuality, far and few between.
Really, the IPCC reports aren't that hard to read.
Whoa
May 16, 2008 - 21:21 ET by Eileen RightHad me worried you'd say "peer reviewed" perfesser.
American Dream – 10,000 politicians swimming to Europe with a lawyer under each arm.
Hey Eileen.....
May 16, 2008 - 21:32 ET by BlondeI see you have the perf nailed perfectly (forgive me for that!).
Welcome here.
<edit> P.S. Love your tag line....
David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive
Ah the usual Alarmism and Propaganda
May 16, 2008 - 23:54 ET by PopularTechGiles, your hand waving is getting old.
Actually Giles it is easy to check all of this but much harder to separate propagandist smears from reality, especially by people as dishonest as yourself.
A simple application of the scientific method will discredit AGW.
Really, the truth about the IPPC reports are not that hard to read either:
Independent Summary for Policymakers: IPCC Fourth Assessment Report (PDF) (Fraser Institute)
IPCC Fourth Assessment Report 2007 Analysis and Summary (PDF) (Science & Public Policy Institute)
Has the IPCC inflated the feedback factor? (PDF) (Science & Public Policy Institute)
Peer Review? What Peer Review? Failures of scrutiny in the UN's Fourth Assessment Report (PDF) (Science & Public Policy Institute)
What is Wrong with the IPCC? (PDF) (Science & Public Policy Institute)
Why the IPCC should be disbanded (PDF) (Science & Public Policy Institute)
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
simple application of the scientific method
May 17, 2008 - 15:33 ET by Giles WinterbourneOdd that "A simple application of the scientific method will discredit AGW" when virtually every major scientific organization has agreed with those IPCC conclusions. One would think that they would have applied the scientific method in their analysis. Also, it is pretty easy to do an ipse dixit 'disprove using the scientific method' statement with no evidence to back that up. Try it at your local science site.
Note also that the science depts. of most governments have subscribed to those same conclusions and most are increasing funding, developing and putting into place policies to exacerbate Anthropogenic Global Warming. Continuing research further strengthens the findings.
And really? Lord Christopher Monckton, Third Viscount Monckton of Brenchley, has the expertise to 'debunk' IPCC? Though he does get some points for effective use of journalistic skills, at least to the non-discerning.Not that the other sources stand up any better to close scrutiny.
Reasonably intelligent people can do the research on the expertise, reputation, history of the people and organizations in the denier - skeptic - delayer camp as well as those supporting working toward solving the problem and use those findings to determine which has the stronger case.
"The combination of some data and an aching desire for an answer does not ensure that a reasonable answer can be extracted from a given body of data."- - J. Tukey
Giles still cannot do it!
May 19, 2008 - 09:04 ET by PopularTechOdd that you cannot demonstrate the application of the Scientific Method to AGW. Your continued attempts to resort to propaganda about position statements released by a handful of people on these organizations board does not mean a "consensus" exists.
"...we often hear how the National Academy of Sciences (NAS) and the American Meteorological Society (AMS) have issued statements endorsing the so-called "consensus" view that man is driving global warming. But what you don't hear is that both the NAS and AMS never allowed member scientists to vote on these climate statements. Essentially, only two dozen or so members on the governing boards of these institutions produced the "consensus" statements. It appears that the governing boards of these organizations buckled to pressure from those promoting the politically correct view of UN and Gore-inspired science." - James Inhofe, B.A. Economics
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
human-caused warming is resulting in a broad range of impacts
May 16, 2008 - 21:37 ET by Giles Winterbourne"A new NASA-led study shows human-caused climate change has made an
impact on a wide range of Earth's natural systems, including permafrost
thawing, plants blooming earlier across Europe, and lakes declining in
productivity in Africa."(NASA)
"Significant changes in physical and biological systems are occurring on
all continents and in most oceans, with a concentration of available
data in Europe and North America. Most of these changes are in the
direction expected with warming temperature. Here we show that these
changes in natural systems since at least 1970 are occurring in regions
of observed temperature increases, and that these temperature increases
at continental scales cannot be explained by natural climate variations
alone." (Nature;Probably available through your local library )
Typical Giles, I read your NASA link heres the last line..
May 16, 2008 - 22:06 ET by upcountrywaterThe authors concluded environmental systems on these continents need
additional research, especially in tropical and subtropical areas where
there is a lack of impact data and published studies.
Just how long will that take?
http://revver.com/video/398166/the-great-global-warming-swindle/
Popular Tech Links are ALREADY COMPLETE.
The POPE says, GOD BLESS AMERICA!!
Liberals/need/help/IranianUranium/<sleep>
some of your links are broken, 404s
May 16, 2008 - 22:22 ET by Giles WinterbourneAnd as a 'computer expert' you know that it really isn't that difficult to automate a run to check for accuracy on a database of URLs.
A subtle difference between the real science and the stuff in the lists is that weaknesses and areas that need further study are acknowledged; rather than the delayer/skeptic/denier tendency to assert that each and every piece that remotely fits their paradigm is an absolute proof and debunks the entire body of evidence.
You know and I know, and every reasonably intelligent person knows that is not how science works.
"If you are obese, you are probably more responsible for global
warming than you ever thought. And your contribution to global warming
is really serious and very, very significant because 400,000,000 of you
are obese!
Your often too generous uptake of food and fuel for transport is
actually placing a great strain on already depleting world resources,
according to some British researchers at the London School of Hygiene
and Tropical Medicine." Review of Lancet letter @ Eco Worldly Lancet possibly available at your local library)
4 Fixed Links
May 17, 2008 - 00:05 ET by PopularTechWas the Medieval Warm Period Global?
(Science, Vol. 291. no. 5508, pp. 1497 - 1499, 23 February 2001)
- Wallace S. Broecker
Imprint of Galactic dynamics on Earth's climate
(Astronomische Nachrichten, Volume 327, Issue 9 , Pages 866 - 870, 10 Oct 2006)
- H. Svensmark
A new dynamical mechanism for major climate shifts
(Geophysical Research Letters, Vol. 34, L13705, 2007)
- Anastasios A. Tsonis, Kyle Swanson, Sergey Kravtsov
Is global warming climate change?
(Nature 380, 478, 11 April 1996)
- Adrian H. Gordon, John A. T. Bye, Roland A. D. Byron-Scott
I prefer to link to PDFs which include the whole paper but they are much more prone to going off line but what is odd is the the last Nature link just disappeared. Coincidence? Who knows but they are fixed now.
As a computer illiterate you would not know that unless you perform link checks daily there is always the possibility for links to become broken, especially with this volume.
The real science is in these links Giles, you are just in denial. It must be embarrassing to keep getting your ass handed to you over and over.
FYI Giles, while I am not obese I do eat and waste as much food as I want. I also use as much gas as I want and there is nothing you can do about it.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
more prone to going off line
May 17, 2008 - 13:33 ET by Giles WinterbourneMaybe because of copyright issues, certainly not from a 'computer science' issue except perhaps poor backup procedures.
This computer illiterate's IT department would not accept a premise that a database check and timely necessary corrections made is too arduous or even difficult to automate.
FYI: Proquest, a database that is often available through the local public library system, provides full text journal articles including Science. So, even if one doesn't have access through a subscription, one can read the articles from 2005 back. And research the letters, comments, etc.
E.g.: "HEMISPHERIC MEAN TEMPERATURES THAT have been reconstructed with a wide
range of climate proxies indicate that temperatures were warmer in
Medieval times than during the subsequent "Little Ice Age" (~1550 to
1850) (1). However, all studies of large-scale climate variations
reveal some regions that do not follow the global or hemispheric trend
[for example, (2)], so selecting a few data points, as W. S. Broecker
does in his Perspective (Science's Compass, 23 Feb., p. 1497), adds
little to resolving the title question he poses: "Was the Medieval Warm
Period global?""
Ah, the good old cherry-picking technique.... yet again.......
It must be embarrassing to keep getting your ass handed to you over and over. Wouldn't know about that; the list's profferings are weak, easily refuted, don't hold up well in the journals and discussion venues. Even a simple websearch usually only finds pro-denier links to them with little critical dialogue and discussion. Where they are discussed, the methodology and the over effusive claims of proof give lie to the quality of the science in those papers. Reasonably intelligent people can do the research and make rational conclusions.
Giles, The Computer Illiterate Fool
May 19, 2008 - 08:44 ET by PopularTechGiles, do you have any idea how link checking works? There are any number of reasons links go offline. This has nothing to do with any database or IT department. Databases and HTML links are two different things. One can be included in the other but your attempted analogy only demonstrates you complete and utter computer illiteracy. Your argument about broken links is a diversion and meaningless, just as your arguments.
Yes, reasonably intelligent people can make up their own minds.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
denial?
May 17, 2008 - 15:34 ET by Giles WinterbourneSo, the Nature piece isn't even a research article, not a review of the literature, but a simple Correspondence, a letter....
The Broecker piece has been noted for its cherry picking and isn't a research article but rather published as a Perspective: ".. emphasize the opinions or viewpoints of their authors. More limited in scope than Reviews.."
The other two? Both state their findings are not conclusive. Both address issues covered well in the science press with a broad reaching consensus that their effects may contribute to the temperature rising trend but are overshadowed by anthropogenic factors.
So, four pieces. Two aren't even quantifiable as research. The other two are weak sauce.
Which is yet another example of why there really isn't an effective argument from the delayer - skeptic - denier crowd. Do the research.
So, how many of the list's cites are to opinion, reviews, letters to the editor, and not to actual research? It would be interesting to see how many would be considered legitimate resources for a college, even undergrad, paper.
Also, all four of the fixed links are easily available full text, two link only to abstracts.
"The combination of some data and an aching desire for an answer does
not ensure that a reasonable answer can be extracted from a given body
of data."- - J. Tukey
Typical Propaganda about Peer-Review
May 19, 2008 - 08:58 ET by PopularTechGiles, yes I am well aware you will dismiss all the overwhelming evidence of Peer-Reviewed articles skeptical of man-made global warming. But your dismissals does not discredit the work. The existence of a criticism does not discredit the work. By this notion for a paper to be invalidated all anyone would have to do is voice opposition. But thankfully that is not how science works but only how alarmists such as yourself would like it to.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
"Such contrarians ascribe to
May 19, 2008 - 09:54 ET by Giles Winterbourne"Such contrarians ascribe to the false god of falsification, that is, a
critic finding one or even several lines of argument contrary to
mainstream consensus who claims they have falsified the conventional
conclusion. That's how simple science used to be done. For example, if
you have a liquid in a test tube and you want to know if it's an acid
or alkaline, one piece of litmus paper can falsify a wrong preliminary
hypothesis. But in complex system science, like tobacco and cancer, or
greenhouse gas build-ups and climate change, hundreds and even
thousands of studies are needed to build a consensus. A few dozen
exceptions do not remotely falsify the vast preponderance of
accumulated evidence. System science is based on preponderance of all
the evidence, not on a few exceptions." Stephen Schneider
Science by perpetual repetition...
May 19, 2008 - 10:03 ET by PopularTech"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
"The existence of a
May 19, 2008 - 12:06 ET by Giles Winterbourne"The existence of a criticism does not discredit the work." ..."to be invalidated all anyone would have to do is voice opposition."
Never said that. Reading the criticism gives further insight to the points being discussed.
"But your dismissals does [do] not discredit the work"
Agree; I'm pointing out dismissals from credible sources and writers with acknowledged expertise in the topic of the paper however. Which is why I note that reasonably intelligent people, non-scientists and/or those with training in field outside the area of discussion, can do the research on proffered list items and judge for themselves.
Why more study needed
May 18, 2008 - 11:04 ET by Giles WinterbourneYet another example of disingenuous dialogue.
"The data showing the patterns of change are strongest
in North America, Asia and Europe - mainly because far more studies
have been done there.
On the other continents,
including South America, Australia and Africa, documentation of changes
in physical and biological systems is sparse, even though there is good
evidence there of human-influenced warming itself." (Telegraph)
Human caused Global Warming
May 19, 2008 - 11:55 ET by NL207Human caused Global Warming is so slight as to be UNMEASURABLE without the aid of modern instrumentation. What is the actual value, Giles? Isn't it approximately 0.4 K over the interval 1900-2000 once the effects of solar variation are weeded out?
There is nothing new about your NASA study. This is sourced in those same few scientists at NASA led by Dr. James E. Hansen that you always link. These are the same folks who founded realclimate.org, aren't they? These scientists are persistently making wrong predictions. Lots of other scientists disagree with them, don't they?
Your second reference cannot distinguish Human caused warming from natrural warming. Their study entirely focuses on effects of warmth on natural systems and then makes the outrageous argument that since this occurs on Contnmental a scale, it cannot be a solely natural phenomena!!! to. wit: "and that these temperature increases at continental scales cannot be explained by natural climate variations alone" These jerks are effectively saying that the enormeous scale of observed climate change implies Human causality! The total idiocy of this statement cannot be overstated. Effectively, it denies that the ice ages or intermittent thermal optima could ever have occurred without Human intervention. This is complete BS totally refuted by paleoclimate reconstructions.
And you Alarmist turkeys have the nerve to label Climate Realists, "deniers".
their respective fields of expertise
May 19, 2008 - 13:00 ET by Giles Winterbourne"that these temperature increases" obviously refers to "these changes in natural systems since at least 1970." (Nature) So your '..complete BS totally refuted .." implies a certain lack of understanding or a certain amount of confusion or......
Note there are eleven authors listed, writing in their respective fields of expertise. Review the list of citations. Then compare with the proffered list items. Author expertise, source credibility, publishing history.
There probably should be a Hansen's Law based on Gore's Law
"..nothing new about your NASA study." Yet Nature seems to think it does advance the knowledge in the field of study. Who should I put more credence with in forming a decision?
"..UNMEASURABLE without the aid of modern instrumentation." You mean like thermometers? But, of course, there are something like 30,000 datasets to cross check and verify AGW impacts with.
Climate change is very
May 13, 2008 - 18:36 ET by NonanonClimate change is very real. It has been happening since God created everything. The difference in belief is when it is proposed that human beings (specifically American human beings) are causing it. If we are so able to impact the weather/climate, why haven't the storms that have hit recently been re-directed or weakened by something we can do?
Perhaps we can sue Bill Clinton and Al Gore and even the entire liberal coalition for refusing to change those weather conditions that led to those destructive and deadly scenarios. Of course that is ridiculous, but so is their claim we are changing the climate in the first place. God help us to somehow get through to their heads to start people actually thinking about what we are being told.
CHRIS MATTHEWS: "You think
May 13, 2008 - 18:52 ET by TECHRIS MATTHEWS: "You think climate change is, is an ideological issue?!"
Exhibit No. 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,001 that Matthews is the dumbest fool on the planet. What's even more frightening is that every single like-minded leftist at NBC/MSDNC "thinks" that so-called "climate change" is not an ideological issue.
Just wait until Matthews is
May 13, 2008 - 21:13 ET by celatorJust wait until Matthews is told the world is actually round and orbits around the sun. You'll see some harumphing and spittle fly then, you can bet.
Maybe Chris is confused because
May 13, 2008 - 19:22 ET by Giles WinterbourneMaybe Chris is confused about Anthropogenic Global Warming being ideological because in addition to corporations going green, the Republican presidential candidate has stated:
"Today I'd like to focus on just one of those challenges, and among environmental dangers it is surely the most serious of all. Whether we call it "climate change" or "global warming," in the end we're all left with the same set of facts. The facts of global warming demand our urgent attention, especially in Washington. Good stewardship, prudence, and simple commonsense demand that we to act meet the challenge, and act quickly.
Some of the most compelling evidence of global warming comes to us from NASA. No longer do we need to rely on guesswork and computer modeling, because satellite images reveal a dramatic disappearance of glaciers, Antarctic ice shelves and polar ice sheets. And I've seen some of this evidence up close. A few years ago I traveled to the area of Svalbard, Norway, a group of islands in the Arctic Ocean. I was shown the southernmost point where a glacier had reached twenty years earlier. From there, we had to venture northward up the fjord to see where that same glacier ends today -- because all the rest has melted. On a trip to Alaska, I heard about a national park visitor's center that was built to offer a picture-perfect view of a large glacier. Problem is, the glacier is gone. A work of nature that took ages to form had melted away in a matter of decades."
"To lead in this effort, however, our government must strike at the source of the problem – with reforms that only Congress can enact and the president can sign. We know that greenhouse gasses are heavily implicated as a cause of climate change. And we know that among all greenhouse gasses, the worst by far is the carbon-dioxide that results from fossil-fuel combustion. Yet for all the good work of entrepreneurs and inventors in finding cleaner and better technologies, the fundamental incentives of the market are still on the side of carbon-based energy. This has to change before we can make the decisive shift away from fossil fuels."
McCain - Vestas Wind Technology. Training Facility speech 12 May 2008
Pssst...they'll never get it.
May 13, 2008 - 19:54 ET by SyriusGiles,
No matter what the science proves on climate change, the few who think it's an ideological battle against the left will still benefit from the good things being done in creating a better world. As the majority of people, left & right, and corporations turn to "green" alternatives, the minority still enjoy the benefits. They'll still have choice although it will be expensive for them. The SUV has become the dinosaur and the latest "victim", not by laws passed by the government, but by the marketplace. Dealerships, manufacturers and SUV owners are suffering from their own choices. Eventually, all those things will belong to history. I look forward to the US becoming the leader in "green" technologies and to grow the economy again...
So, let them battle the wind of change with their hot air, not that it will be enough to warm the Earth...
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
"Green" technologies like
May 13, 2008 - 20:03 ET by Cortillaen"Green" technologies like mercury-laden lightbulbs and food-destroying ethanol? See, some of us don't even believe that the Earth is getting hotter. The evidence is simply inconclusive. However, it's patently absurd to believe that we can impact the temperature through "green" technology unless you first believe we've done so through <sarc>"black" technology</sarc>, which the evidence actually does suggest is untrue. As for simply reducing resource/energy use and waste production, that's just simple good business. It'll happen on its own. "Green" is a scam, pure and simple.
www.rhjunior.com Great comics with a hefty dose of Christian and anti-nutjob goodness.
"With your mind as high as Mt. Fuji you can see all things clearly. And you can see all the forces that shape events; not just the things near to you." -Miyamoto Musashi
The "science" has not proven ANYTHING about AGW
May 13, 2008 - 21:34 ET by PopularTechIf you think otherwise please prove to me AGW using the scientific method. The rest is religious ideology:
Environmentalism as Religion (Michael Crichton, A.B. Anthropology, M.D. Harvard)
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
high five
May 14, 2008 - 17:26 ET by wizardjra high five pt,
once you debunk James Hansen's bent data, etc. you wind up with "we don't know"
He never proves anything.
May 14, 2008 - 18:24 ET by danboHe never proves anything. He just ignores or brushes everything inconvenient aside. Tries to discredit anyone or anything that disagrees. Repeats the talking points and claims science has spoken.
But then you know that.
"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT
Sy & giles, it's 2008 CATCH UP, I'm so tired of your old travels
May 14, 2008 - 17:46 ET by upcountrywaterSnow in 2008.
Just look at the pictures 1 at the top and 3 at the bottom..
The POPE says, GOD BLESS AMERICA!!
IranianUranium<sleep>New/Infrastructure/repair?/ROFLMAO
Mathews is only confused that McCain is an idiot and here is why
May 13, 2008 - 21:30 ET by PopularTechA melting glacier is not evidence that it was caused by man-made CO2. This is why McCain is such an idiot - there is no scientific proof that man-made CO2 is causing any problem.
Funny McCain traveled to Norway and missed the growing glaciers:
Nigardsbreen Glacier is growing by 25 to 50 meters per year (Jostedal Glacier National Park)
or in Alaska:
Hubbard Glacier, Alaska: Growing and Advancing in Spite of Global Climate Change (USGS)
The ice in Antarctica is GROWING you idiot McCain!
Antarctica - Antarctic ice sheet thickening, researcher says (Associated Press)
Antarctica - Antarctic Temperatures Disagree With Climate Model Predictions (Science Daily)
Antarctica - East Antarctica's surface slowly rising (The New York Times)
Antarctica - Geologists Find That Tides Control Flow Of Antarctic Ice Streams (Science Daily)
Antarctica - Ice Core 'Dipstick' Indicates West Antarctic Ice Has Thinned Less Than Believed (Science Daily)
Antarctica - Ice 'thickens' in West Antarctica (BBC)
Antarctica - No Major Changes Seen In Stability Of Antarctic Ice Sheet (Science Daily)
Antarctica - Pondering A Climate Conundrum In Antarctica; Unique, Distinct Cooling Trend Discovered On Earth's Southernmost Continent (Science Daily)
Antarctica - Researchers: Antarctica Ice Sheet Stable (ABC News)
Antarctica - Researchers find Antarctic ice is thickening (USA Today)
Antarctica - Scientists Detect Thickening Of West Antarctic Ice Sheet (Science Daily)
Antarctica - Scientists Rule Out One Threat Of Antarctic Collapse (Science Daily)
Antarctica - Snowfall-Driven Growth in East Antarctic Ice Sheet Mitigates Recent Sea-Level Rise (Science)
Antarctica - Study: Antarctic Ice Sheet Is Thickening, Not Thinning (ABC News)
Antarctica - The Antarctic deep sea gets colder (Alfred Wegener Institute for Polar and Marine Research)
Antarctica - Tidal Motion Influences Antarctic Ice Sheet (Science Daily)
Antarctica - The Antarctic Ice Sheet is Growing Thicker (Not by Fire but by Ice)
Antarctica Sea Ice - Antarctic Sea Ice at Record High (The Reference Frame)
Antarctica Sea Ice - Antarctic Sea Ice Increases over Past Two Decades (Space.com)
Antarctica Sea Ice - Antarctic Sea Ice Sets Records in Oct. (The Heartland Institute)
Antarctica Sea Ice - Satellites Show Overall Increases In Antarctic Sea Ice Cover (NASA)
Antarctica Sea Ice - Southern Hemisphere Sea Ice Reaches “Unprecedented” Levels (Climate Audit)
With morons like this running for president why bother voting.
The Anti 'Man-Made' Global Warming Resource
high altitude glaciers
May 14, 2008 - 17:31 ET by wizardjrA highly respected glacier maven proved that all over the Alps and Himalayas that high altitude glaciers are NOT in retreat. In fact there was a great LACK OF STUDY relative to the hundreds of glaciers on these mountains. In many cases the low altitude glaciers were shrinking from the same problem at Mt. Kilimanjaro, lack of precipitation. A lot of it caused by AMDO cycle.
Okay, I have to ask. Since I
May 13, 2008 - 19:57 ET by Chris NormanOkay, I have to ask. Since I added MSNBC to my skipped channels list, I haven't had the displeasure of seeing Matthews on TV. My question is, is it the color on my monitor, NewsBusters, or is his face really this orange/pink? Because he sure ain't pretty in it.
The follow-up question becomes -
May 13, 2008 - 20:28 ET by FastEddoes it matter? He ain't pretty in pink, but his beliefs are!
There is no sense in being stupid, if you can't prove it! - my dad V
I'm just trying to figure
May 13, 2008 - 21:37 ET by Chris NormanI'm just trying to figure out if my monitor's color is off or if MSNBC got a deal on some really horrifying-looking makeup.
It's not really a live
May 13, 2008 - 21:42 ET by celatorIt's not really a live Matthews. It's a dummy from Madame Tussaud's Wax Museum. It's hard to get the skin color just right on those wax figures.
For Pete's sake, he looks
May 13, 2008 - 21:47 ET by Chris NormanFor Pete's sake, he looks like a talking Bayers Childrens Aspirin
Yes Chris N.......Mr.
May 13, 2008 - 23:44 ET by kzgobluYes Chris N.......Mr. Mathews is definitely a Pinko...........
"There are a lot of U.S.
May 13, 2008 - 19:19 ET by RESTLESS 1"There are a lot of U.S. corporations, which are hardly lefty, who
believe that being green is smart. They think it's the right policy."
No Matthews you idiot. These corporations think there is a lot of MONEY!!! to be made from saps like you by making you idiots think they are going green. G.E. has much to gain if they keep loser dummies like you buying their overpriced, green, merchandise.
because the color of money is ...
May 13, 2008 - 21:27 ET by mom_roxLike Dennis Miller says, this is an ingenious marketing ploy. Just mention the alliterative 'Go Green', and you're set.
A government that robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.
- George Bernard Shaw, 1944
Matthews is just practicing
May 13, 2008 - 19:21 ET by Chris McMullenMatthews is just practicing the lefty tactic of dismissing
any and all opinions that don't toe the liberal agenda. It would have
been better if Harris jumped all over Matthew's comment. Such as:
"Whatever Matthews...please don't insult your viewer's intelligence
by acting like we've reached a consensus on AGW. You run the risk of sounding like one of
the Priests during Galileo's Roman Inquisition."
Chrissy-prissy-hissy-fit
May 13, 2008 - 19:49 ET by dmannNo one watches this moron, I live in the Peoples Republic of Mass. and none of my friends, coworkers, family and the illegals that change the oil in my cars watch MSNB-ullpie. The network is a total failure and only exists to provide GE with a tax write-off! Any and all vestigaes of NBC were removed from TV, radio and 'puter along time ago.
Jeremiah Matthews speaking...
May 13, 2008 - 20:43 ET by zachlindHere in south Texas we refer to Mr. Matthews as Jeremiah Matthews. He’s always shooting his mouth off and not making much sense.
When you believe that we're
May 13, 2008 - 21:18 ET by Eileen RightWhen you believe that we're just an organism, then you will believe a collective (UN, House, Senate and President Obama) of "intelligent" people have the ability to change any and all crisis that befall them.
Right, show me that bridge...
Matthews and the smart car
May 13, 2008 - 21:34 ET by pbthinkerI wouldn't want to ride with Matthews in a smart car, I'd be afraid of something crawling up his leg and giving him ideas.
I think she could have said, of course it's an ideological issue, why else would the Democrats be demogoguing it?
Democrats: Stuck on Stupid since 2000.
Eileen Right
May 13, 2008 - 21:42 ET by dmann“ Resistance is futile. Your life as it has been is over. From this time forward, you will service us."
All Hail the Messiah!
So my job is to tell the
May 14, 2008 - 13:46 ET by Eileen RightSo my job is to tell the truth, to be straight with the American people about how I intend to end climate change, BHO - Dem Debate - MSNBC - 15 Jan 2007,
Well, Chris, do you drive a
May 14, 2008 - 06:55 ET by Uncle DonWell, Chris, do you drive a Smart Car? I think not you hypocrite....
Well, Chris, do you drive a
May 14, 2008 - 06:57 ET by Uncle DonWell, Chris, do you drive a Smart Car? I think not you hypocrite....
The climate is always changing
May 14, 2008 - 07:30 ET by c5thenIt's either trending warmer or trending colder, it's NEVER EVER in a steady state. The issue isn't whether the climate is changing or even which way it's going. The issue is the idiocy and sheer arrogance of the left in thinking that it's "our fault" and that we can impact it enough to make it change in the direction we want it to.
The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic. Let's get it back! Alan Keyes '08.
THE DROOLER...
May 14, 2008 - 07:59 ET by danybhoyChris Mathews may be one of the dumbest people on television, really. But this might not even be his fault. Bernie Goldberg talks about this in "Bias", that guys like Mathews does'nt hang out with anyone who might actually hold a different political opinion, so if you are not exposed to anything but liberalism & hang out with only liberals, you will only think like a lib. The issue of "Global Warming" fits this mold, so many buy into the fraud & are not exposed to opposing views on this subject that they no tolerance for anything other then Al Gore's "the science is settled" version of "the truth".
It's a political issue Mathews, not a scientific one. All of the cures to "global warming" seem to b the same ones the left has for everything, tax the crap out of it & try to regulate everybody"s behaviour in the process. That makes this a freedom issue to me.
"Some of us are wise, some of us are otherwise" Mark Levin
Personally
May 14, 2008 - 08:47 ET by mytwocentsPersonally I believe that Crissy's spittle is FAR more damaging to the environment than all of the SUVs in any given geographical area.
then why is it so cool in phoenix in apr & may
May 14, 2008 - 09:11 ET by lunaticcringeradioit was downright cool here in phoenix today and a lot lately, and as i was driving up to prescott there was a lot of snow on the mountains where the old mining town of jerome is at, also as i was working in colorado springsthe week before, pikes peak is about a third covered in snow and i got snowed on down in town at the base of chyenne mtn, norads "old" home. yeah there are elevation changes that help facilitate snow but this is may, in arizona and i have never seen snow on the mountains near prescott but only a few times only during the winter. i guess the cold weather is brought on by global warming.
since when does the weather have a political leaning.
lunaticcringeradio
when
May 14, 2008 - 17:35 ET by wizardjrWhen its worth money and power.