'Today' Show's Environmental Solution? Just Get Rid of the Humans!

Photo of Geoffrey Dickens.
By Geoffrey Dickens | September 4, 2007 - 17:04 ET

On Tuesday's "Today" show Matt Lauer discovered the solution to all the environmental crises Al Gore and his ilk have warned about, there's just one hitch, it involves the extinction of all mankind. Promoting a book that examined how long it would take for the Earth to clean up "the mess we've made" Lauer and his co-host Meredith Vieira pondered how pristine the planet would be without us:

Matt Lauer: "Then we're gonna talk to the author of a book and this is, really asks an interesting question. The book is called The World Without Us and it asks the question what would happen to planet Earth if human beings were to suddenly disappear. What would happen to our cities? What would happen to our landmarks? How quickly would our streets turn to rivers? How quickly would our farmland turn to forest? What would happen to natural wonders and man made wonders, like the Panama Canal or the Statue of Liberty. We're gonna talk to the author about that. And really it's all about trying to figure out how long it would take nature to reclaim what we've created."

Meredith Vieira: "The mess."

Lauer: "How long it would take nature to fix the mess we've made?"

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During the interview with the book's author Lauer wondered how long it would take for such environmentally-damaging things like farmland and the Statue of Liberty to degrade and then concluded:

Lauer: "What's the lesson here? Would the Earth miss us at all? How long would it take for it, to fix the problems we created?"

Alan Weisman, author: "Some things, obviously, would be colonized by nature and covered by nature very quickly. Other things that we've done are gonna be very cloying. Plastics. Nothing knows how to break them down yet. They'll be around for millions of years. They'll be a part of the geologic record. Our radioactive wastes-"

Lauer: "We got, we got a lot of lessons to learn and this book might teach us a few of them. Alan Weisman, thanks for being here."

The following are the silly teasers from Lauer and Vieira, followed by the full interview segment as they occurred on the September 4 "Today" show:

Matt Lauer: "Also how about this? What would happen to our planet if human beings were to disappear? It's an interesting question. Probably better off. What would happen to our homes, our cities, our landmarks? Actually how long would it take Mother Nature to reclaim what human beings have created? We'll talk to the author of a new book that poses that very question."

...

Matt Lauer: "Then we're gonna talk to the author of a book and this is, really asks an interesting question. The book is called The World Without Us and it asks the question what would happen to planet Earth if human beings were to suddenly disappear. What would happen to our cities? What would happen to our landmarks? How quickly would our streets turn to rivers? How quickly would our farmland turn to forest? What would happen to natural wonders and man made wonders, like the Panama Canal or the Statue of Liberty. We're gonna talk to the author about that. And really it's all about trying to figure out how long it would take nature to reclaim what we've created."

Meredith Vieira: "The mess."

Lauer: "How long it would take nature to fix the mess we've made?"

...

Matt Lauer: "There's been a lot of debate these days about what mankind is doing to our planet. So here's an interesting question for you. What would happen to Earth if humans simply disappeared? Author and journalist Alan Weisman tackles those questions in his new book, it's called, The World Without Us. Alan, good morning. Nice to have you here."

Alan Weisman: "My pleasure."

Lauer: "I like the idea. So many people spend time thinking about how long we can survive on Earth, you take the question one step further and say what happens to Earth after we're gone? Where did you come up with this idea?"

Weisman: "Well, as an environmental writer I get more and more concerned that people don't want to read stuff that is really frightening to them because they're scared that we're all gonna die if something doesn't change or we don't change. So I figured that by theoretically wiping us off the face of the Earth and then just seeing what would happen next, it sort of gets people thinking that, 'Well okay we're already dead. This is gonna be fun. We get to see the future."

Lauer: "So let me just, first of all, fill people in. How did you wipe us off the face of the Earth? What happened to us that created the situation?"

Weisman: "I don't spend, really, much time. I pose a few possibilities. They're remote possibilities. A homosapien-specific virus might pick us off. And let's say that AIDS were airborne, instead of transferred by fluids. Let's say there's a rapture or some nano-genius figures out a way to sterilize us."

Lauer: "One way or another we're gone."

Weisman: "Yeah."

Lauer: "We're gone? Alright, let's get into some specifics. You got a lot of people, right now, Alan, they're watching from their comfortable homes, their houses. Human beings are gone from the Earth. What happens to those homes?"

Weisman: "Well everyone who owns a home knows that nature is always trying to repossess it faster than the bank. And if you're not maintaining it constantly stuff is going to come in. You're gonna have little animals coming in, be they insects or small mammals. Mold is coming in and most of all water is trying to get in. And if you're not maintaining your roof water will start to seep underneath and then it starts to fall apart."

Lauer: "And let's face it, we're using cheaper and cheaper building materials these days so, so Mother Nature is gonna win. You write this, 'Gradually the asphalt jungle will give way to a real one.' You talk about cities. For example, New York City. And what's gonna happen underground in the tunnels, under the streets with water damage. What's the scenario? And how long does it take?"

Weisman: "Well subway engineers took me underneath New York to show me that, even on a sunny day, 13 million gallons of groundwater has to be pumped away. This used to be a very hilly island. There were streams that would whisk the water away to the sea. That we flattened the city down to superimpose the grid. So the water is underground and if they're not pumping it uphill or if there are no human beings manning the power plants, it's gonna flood and then the columns holding up the streets are gonna corrode and..."

Lauer: "So Lexington Avenue is a river and..."

Weisman: "It would take 20 years or so for those columns to corrode enough that the streets would cave-in but that would definitely happen."

Lauer: "A lot of bridges around the world would simply collapse and fall."

Weisman: "Right, but Manhattan's bridges, because they were built really early in the 20th century, oftentimes they're overbuilt, so they're probably gonna last longer than say some of our interstate freeway bridges that are already starting to collapse."

Lauer: "How long would it take for farmland to turn into forest again?"

Weisman: "It depends on whether that farmland had received a lot of fertilizer and pesticides and all the other things that we've done to soil. And I've got comparisons of both kinds in this book. The, the farms in northern New England that never saw much fertilizer, they're already turning into forests. The ones that have gotten all this coating of municipal sludge and the other things that we do to so-call improve soil, they're very acidic. They've been very leeched, it's gonna take a while."

Lauer: "Let's talk about some landmarks, things we can all see. Some iconic images around the world. The Great Wall of China. No human beings. How long does that last?"

Weisman: "Great Wall of China isn't all that great compared to other things because it really depends, just like our subways, just like our bridges on human maintenance. It's a pastiche of bricks and mud and sticks and even rice gluten to hold it all together. And if people weren't there maintaining it, erosion would just dissolve it."

Lauer: "The Panama Canal? What's its future with no humans?"

Weisman: "The Panama Canal was described to me, in Panama by engineers there, as this great wound in the Earth that amputated one continent from the other. It would take less than 20 years, probably less than 10 years for that wound to be healed by nature."

Lauer: "Here's something that would last longer than I ever, the Chunnel. Okay, the tunnel that, that goes from Great Britain to France? How long would that last?"

Weisman: "Well the Chunnel was built, intelligently, through one geographic layer. So it probably wouldn't get divided by a fault or anything. It would, it's a really well-built tunnel that might be buried down there forever. However, the, the Calais side, the French side isn't that high above sea level. So if seas keep rising it may flood and water will collect at the lowest point. It's kind of v-shaped."

Lauer: "Things that would last a long time: the Statue of Liberty, pennies minted before a certain year. What's the lesson here? Would the Earth miss us at all? How long would it take for it, to fix the problems we created?"

Weisman: "Some things, obviously, would be colonized by nature and covered by nature very quickly. Other things that we've done are gonna be very cloying. Plastics. Nothing knows how to break them down yet. They'll be around for millions of years. They'll be a part of the geologic record. Our radioactive wastes-"

Lauer: "We got, we got a lot of lessons to learn and this book might teach us a few of them. Alan Weisman, thanks for being here."

Weisman: "Thank you very much, Matt."

UPDATE: The above segment was very reminiscent of the following MRC Quote of the Year runner-up from 1990:

"It's a morbid observation, but if everyone on earth just stopped breathing for an hour, the greenhouse effect would no longer be a problem."

-- Newsweek Senior Writer Jerry Adler, December 31, 1990 issue.

—Geoffrey Dickens is the senior news analyst at the Media Research Center.

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Ah, now we know their end

Ah, now we know their end game. But, if we're all gone, who'll watch Matt and Meredith in the mornings? Surely, they aren't including themselves in this, huh?

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

Chris, you've got it

Chris, you've got it backwards. Libs like Matt, Meredith, Gore and Leo are the ones ready to throw in the towel. Three cheers for the extinction of liberals!

Not at all. Notice how when

Not at all. Notice how when they say we shouldn't be driving SUVs or living in mansions, they aren't talking about themselves... 

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

It's the Amish, stupid...

...and once again I say that the Amish have every single issue we debate here already figured out...whenever we're ready:) 

Protest Craig's conservative abandonment - vote Democrat in 08'

But, but, I don't like

But, but, I don't like those weird beards they wear... 

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

...you get used to

...you get used to it:) 

Protest Craig's conservative abandonment - vote Democrat in 08'

But I thought the House

But, I thought the House Amish don't use electricity and modern technology, so how could we go on NewsBusters? Look, I'll give up a lot, but there are limits... :)  

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

sacrifices will have to be

sacrifices will have to be made - not my rules unfortunately:)!

we have a few centuries to get ready... 

Protest Craig's conservative abandonment - vote Democrat in 08'

TruthMonger

Im sorry, we have about 9 years left, and I don't quite understand how Lauer forgot to tell the bookwriter that soon to be Dr. Al Gore and his scientific minders have declared mass human extinction is already upon us, and the heat envelope of earth is nearing it's exponential and unstoppable increase.

 I realize GWB was trying to save humanity with his manned mission to mars idea, but these people want us all dead so the earth can live a normal healthy life, can you really blame them ?

 I was encouraged by the announcement that amputations like the Panama Canal are reversed and regrown by Mother Earth (thank God Jimmah abandoned that atrocity ), She really is a far more avanced Being than we, the human virus invading and destroying Her health.

 The ironic part is our carbon spewing that is increasing Her heat to fever temperatures will be our own undoing. Isn't She a gloriously advanced Creature, no need for white blood cells, the invasive virus She shelters, we humans, will simply cease to exist in Her fever.

 Excuse me I need to go hug a tree and cry now, since I'm afraid many of my wooden friends, including Dr. Al Gore won't make it.

the good news SP

all those people who told us cockroaches would outlive us all were right.  That will be man's final vindication we were right about roaches.

Supreme Court,  National Security,  Borders,  Fiscal Restraint, my litmus test for President.  

So, Heir Lauer is in favor

So, Heir Lauer is in favor of genocide and extermination?

Libs...lead the way

Let the liberals lead the way...

If conservatives are RIGHT, then liberals must be WRONG.
Thompson/Rice

Nothing But Flowers

 This reminds me of that song by Talking Heads called "Nothing But Flowers" wherin the world is being reclaimed by nature.  However it had a typical not-what-you-expected twist the Talking Heads often used.

The lyrics were, I think more in line with what normal people would do than what liberal utopians might do.  Or think they would do.

My favorite was "If this is paradise, I wish I had a lawnmower"

Sadly, this kind of thinking would probably put me in the ranks of Philistine in the eyes of the Today Show.

When a liberal speaks, the truth is busy elsewhere.

Why don't we try it this way...

All the AGW hard core activists get to drink the cool-aid first. If there is no discernable change after 10 years, the MSM can go next. After another 10 years those of us poor souls left will evaluate what the next steps should be.

 

The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic

Does anyone here remember

Does anyone here remember the article that Rush read on the air a few years ago? It was by some mankind-hating enviro-wacko that "knew" man was responsible for ruining the earth. Went on to talk about how it was only "chance" in evolution that made men supreme, as opposed to, say, dolphins. And everyone knows how intelligent dolphins are, so they would have been much better stewards of the earth if they had ended up at the top of the food chain.

It was hilarious, because you would swear it was a parody, but the guy meant every word!

I haven't seen a dolphin

I haven't seen a dolphin while diving yet. However a number of divers have commented that dolphins can be a royal pain.  People have the flipper image of them. Which isn't quite accurate. Just as Jaws is the image of sharks. Rather than the image of people holding and petting sharks. (They can go limp in your arms like a contented cat.) Example

Like wise the image of the poor polar bear

Unfortunately libs live in the fantasy world of Disney and Hollywood. Not the real world.

"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT

Well, dan. I'd imagine a

Well, dan.

I'd imagine a dolphin would be smart enough to recognize Hillary Clinton for the shark she is, and try to drown her.

Other than that....they are extremely intelligent animals.  Highly specialized with their sonar capabilities.  But as the libs postulate....smart enough to run the world?   Idiotic! 

The whole discussion these liberals had about no humans on earth is absurd.   

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

But, you all would agree

Maybe not running the world. But, I think we all would agree that Flipper would do a better job at anchoring a news program than, say, Matt, Meredith, Dianne, or Katie.

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

Agreed. Hillary and the

Agreed. Hillary and the dems are the real sharks. Let's hope the dolphins do chase them off.  And the finned sharks bite them.

Like I said. Haven't encountered dolphin yet. (I hope to. They're on my list of to see; along with whale sharks, manta, and sea horses.) But sharks also seem pretty sharp. And with well developed senses.

BTW (Think I told you.) had a pair of tarpons accompanying us on a night dive a few weeks ago. And a spanish hog fish that was a real ham. Kept jumping in the light where ever we pointed it. 

"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT

dan

As you said, I've never encountered dolphins while diving either (although I "swam" with them as a kid in the Keys).

There are no end to fascinating and nosy fish and other creatures on the reef (I think you told me it was a 3" blue damselfish that was giving you fits....crazy little critters!).

We saw a baby whale shark in the Keys once (about 20' long), but it was so shy it ran off before I had a chance to jump off the boat and swim with it.  A beautiful creature.

I once encountered a box crab and a small octopus (4"?) fighting to the death on the flats in about 3' of water.  Amazing.  I'll never forget it.

The point being, though, is that these liberal idiots just think of "mother Nature" as some sort of idealogical thing, whereas sportsmen (and women) like ourselves find the beauty in the environment....and work to preserve it. 

Letting it revert doesn't serve anyone's purpose.  But instituting use rules, catch limits, etc. serves everyone's purpose.  Too bad the liberal fools will never get that.  As much as they dislike it....human beings not only share, but rule the planet.  We just need to do it responsibly.  And yes, that means drilling (I flew over the Gulf rigs on my way back from Houston....first time I'd ever seen that....Wow!....but what a great marine habitat that must be under water). Equitable use of the environment.

Anyway, I digress.  Glad you had a great trip....and good luck on meeting the denizens on your list.  Good stuff!

David Gregory, do you know which damn network you lie for? ~ Uncle Jimbo, @Blackfive

 

Hard to believe a 3" blue

Hard to believe a 3" blue phase sargent major stood his ground to me. I must have gotten too close to the egg stash.

Yes, I've watched small fish jumping in and fighting a larger eel. trying to take the eels lunch away from him. And it's fun watching fish of different species join together to hunt.

I used to try to pick up trash on the ocean floor. Untill I realized the bottles and cans were someone's home.

The rigs are interesting dives. Lots of life attaches itself to the legs. And if you're observant when you dive you see the little eyes and faces watching you. They attract life, just as wrecks, discarded tires and rubble. (Sometimes they're eyesores to us. But the fish love them.)

We need to be careful what goes out. but man really is a part of nature.  And adds to nature. 

Is it my imagination? Or do conservatives tend to get more directly involved with and interact more with nature. Verses libs who often just watch representations. 

"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT

"Is it my imagination? Or

"Is it my imagination? Or do conservatives tend to get more directly involved with and interact more with nature"

My brother is in a 4-wheel-drive enthusiasts club, and as he likes to point out, they have never come across any members of the Sierra Club while they are out picking up garbage from the parks and conservation areas...

My Concern

What a stupid topic for speculation.  Let's just hope that crabgrass doesn't take over golf courses.

I saw this author

I saw this author interviewed on The Daily Show, and it sounds like a fascinating idea for a book. Very interesting stuff.

Better Idea

How long would it take for the world to return to normal if all the liberals instantly disappeared?

I thought that's what you

I thought that's what you guys said will happen during the Rapture?

Flash update: humans are

Flash update: humans are part of nature - and nature can't make a mess of itself:)! 

Protest Craig's conservative abandonment - vote Democrat in 08'

In many ways, humans have

In many ways, humans have risen above nature.

Anthropologist used to say

Anthropologist used to say that man was the only species that made and used tools. Untill apes were seen making and using tools.

What man does exists in nature.  

"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT

Yes, but we've conquered

Yes, but we've conquered the elements in large part, allowing us to inhabit places such as Canada, Iceland, etc. We exist despite nature, to some extent.

We exist despite nature? hahaha

Bal, Nature itself "conquers the elements, allowing living, breathng creatures to inhabit places such as Canada and Iceland."

Polar Bears are a relatively recent evolution from Grizzly Bears...and they live in that inhospitable place called Canada.

All I'm saying is that

All I'm saying is that we're not at the mercy of nature as much as all the other animals. There are exceptions, yes, such as extreme nature, but we build buildings that stand up better during earthquakes, we build dams, levees, etc.

Not much of an outdoorsman, are you bal?

"we're not at the mercy of nature as much as animals"....ha

Feel sorry for the poor creatures who have to live outside?

Animals do just fine, bal.  In fact, they usually do better than man in ALL conditions.  See, they've learned to specialize and adapt for where-ever they live. 

And the buildings, dams, etc that man builds?  Nothing more than complicated adaptations. 

[sigh]...Do squirrels have

[sigh]...Do squirrels have air conditioning? Has there been some leap in technology whereby rodents have mastered the concept of central air?

Two answers required, bal

...because of your ambiguous post.   ;^>

Answer 1:  Once again, you begin with a stupid premise and when challenged, resort to sarcasm in an attempt to cover.

Answer 2:  Because animals have no technology, it means they are "at the mercy of nature?"  Like I said, you don't know much about nature, do you bal?

I didn't say "at the mercy

I didn't say "at the mercy of nature," I said "MORE at the mercy of nature" than we are. MORE. You don't know much about sentence structure, do you RJ.

My sarcastic response clearly illustrated my point. We have air conditioning. Squirrels do not. Point, us.

Why, yes, I do know about sentence structure, bal

...and I know when you're trying to blow smoke.  You actually said "we're not at the mercy of nature as much as all the other animals."   This clearly means you think that animals ARE at the mercy of nature, but humans are less so.

So you were being serious when you bragged that humans have air conditioning and animals don't.  Sorry for my confusion.   It was such a silly thing to say, I couldn't be sure. 

Yes, we have adapted with complicated shelters (that includes mechanical air conditioning), but so have the animals.  Their burrows, nests, tree holes, caves, etc, are what they've created to survive and thrive in all the weather conditions they are likely to encounter.     

In fact, I would say our systems are more prone to massive failure, coming as they do through a complicated infrastructure, than the animals are.

WOW. Just, "wow." So I

WOW. Just, "wow."

So I assume you'll be moving into a tree or cave soon? Perhaps a nice nest somewhere or burrow? So you don't expose yourself to "massive failure."

Back to the pointless sarcasm, bal?

Always a sure sign that you understand you've lost the argument.   ;^>

You didn't answer the

You didn't answer the question.  

And neither did you, bal

Respond to my post three doors up and I'll be happy to respond to your silly "I give up/you win" post about moving into the trees. 

 

"Feel sorry for the poor

"Feel sorry for the poor creatures who have to live outside?"

No, I don't. Your turn.

Nice try, but childish, bal

Respond to my entire post or go away.  

Speaking of going away, I'm going to bed.  I'll check in the morning to see if you've decided to argue like a serious adult, or if you stick to the tiresome and silly one liners.

Repeat the question. I'm

Repeat the question. I'm too stupid to pick it out of your many posts.

Just re-read the last 5 or 6 posts, bal

I'm sure you can pick up the thread of conversation going before you decided to derail it with sarcastic non-sequiturs.

On the other hand, we can stop if you prefer....I've made my point, which is that you, having little knowledge about animals in their natural environment, probably shouldn't have commented on the subject.

RJ

And I made my point, that you're wrong.

Well, bal, if that's true

Why don't you just do as I suggested and pick up the thread where you dropped it in favor of silly, sophomoric gamesmanship?  Just go back (now) 8 or 9 posts and respond like a grown up.  Come on, bal.  Show me your stuff. You can even move it down to the bottom so we have plenty of room.

balboa, please tell me the last time

 babbling bubbleboy: " My sarcastic response clearly illustrated my point. We have air conditioning. Squirrels do not. Point, us. "

balboa, please tell me the last time you saw a squirrel passed out on the sidewalk from heat exhaustion ?

roflmao - the idiot lib!

No, bal, but they do have

No, bal, but they do have summer homes and winter homes.  The summer home is a nest of leaves in the tops of the trees where the upper branches give them shade from the sun, and any errant wind current that comes along blows through the nest to cool them off.  The winter home, on the other hand is a hollow in a tree lined with dead leaves and twigs.  The hollow keeps the cold wind off of them, and the dead leaves and twigs make for a fairly efficient blanket of insulation. So, they have no need for central heat and air.

"A communist is someone who reads Marx.  An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx."  Ronald Reagan

There is life that survive

There is life that survive in places we can't. We do have more tools to extend our range. But animals also have tools.

"There is a clear attempt to establish truth not by scientific methods but by perpetual repetition."
- Richard S. Lindzen, Ph.D. Professor of Meteorology, MIT

These guys havent seen

These guys havent seen Planet of the Apes? What gives here? The movie tells us that if humans "devolve", the apes will rise to the top of the food chain.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

and just wait until those

and just wait until those "damned, filthy apes" get SUVs! :) 

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

Should we start calling

Should we start calling Meredith Nova?

Nortonalec

Would Al Gore be Dr. Zaius?

Would Al Gore be Dr. Zaius?

I can't remember. Was Dr.

I can't remember. Was Dr. Zaius an overweight, embittered presidential loser who sought to resurrect his career by becoming a crazed prophet of whacked-out environmentalism?  Please refresh my memory. :)

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

Haha! Dr. Zaius was the

Haha!

Dr. Zaius was the "keeper" of global warming , er, ape religion, AND invented the ape-ernet!

 

"Will Global Warming come

"Will Global Warming come back? The answer lies Beneath the Garage Roofs on the Planet of the Apes"... 

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

LOL! You are right! In the

LOL! You are right! In the movie, Dr. Zaius invented the internet.

Nortonalec

  I've heard conversations

  I've heard conversations like this before (I'm a boomer). 

 The people are really stoned and they are having these brilliant insights and everybody is like, "whoa... that's heavy".  and then they'd giggle and forget what they were talking about.

MidAmerica, You made me

MidAmerica,

You made me laugh!

Me too....I cracked up!

Me too....I cracked up!

  Well it's easy to make a

  Well it's easy to make a joke when it looks like you're watching a skit from Waynes World.

You guys really don't think

You guys really don't think this is an interesting topic?

  The topic can only be

  The topic can only be pure speculation and flights of fantasy.

  It's like a koan in Bhuddism where you can meditate on 'the sound of one hand clapping' or 'what did you look like before your parents met?'.

That's not a good

That's not a good comparison. You can base the discussion on the actual reality of things, as it appears the author did to write a whole book about the subject.

  Without a self-aware life

  Without a self-aware life form the earth has no meaning.  It does not 'exist'.  Removing all humans would be the 'destruction' of the planet.  Life is more than biology. 

You really can't appreciate

You really can't appreciate this subject, can you.

  You're not following my

  You're not following my train of thought.  If there is an end to humanity what happens next is unknowable and it doesn't matter. 

  It's unknowable because there won't be any creature to be 'aware' of the state of the planet.

  It doesn't matter what the state of the world becomes because whether something is good or bad is a moral judgement and without humans there is no creature to make those judgements.

   To hope for the end of humanity as a cure for it's 'ills and sins' is a mental disorder.

 

I understand what you're

I understand what you're saying. I don't know why contemplating what would happen to our planet, our infrastructure, if we disappeared isn't interesting or worthwhile.

No one's "hoping" for the end of humanity. It's "contemplation"; analysis.

   Sure it's OK to

   Sure it's OK to speculate on this topic as long as you keep in mind this is a science-fiction novel.  There's no way to validate any claim in the book.

 

Well, duh, that's the fun,

Well, duh, that's the fun, speculating as to how things might happen. I'm not basing my life around the book. It's fascinating to me, though.

Yes the death cult is fun huh, balboa

I guess Leon's propensity for death cultism is also infecting our other famous lib, huh babbly ....

 Well, since it's fascinating, did you surmise Mother Earth would swallow nearly all traces of man rather quickly, as any normal lib archeaological wacko darwinist multi-cultural person could easily conclude ?

I suppose NOT. I think you're like Matilda and his co-lib death cult crybaby, and whine to yourself " my God! radiation and plastic! the bane of the world forver! "

 Then your inner child probably shrinks in horrid fascination.

It's not just speculation,

It's not just speculation, either.  A lot of what is cited in the book is research done around Chernoble.  In addition to studying the effects of radioactivity, they can also study what happens when humans completely abandon a functional and civilized place.  It's fascinating stuff that's going on.

   ...they can also study

   ...they can also study what happens when humans completely abandon a functional and civilized place.

   I personally can't see anything that would be interesting in these studies.  Maybe because I live in a rural area and I have seen firsthand how 'nature' reclaims old farmhouses and replants abandoned fields.  It's what nature does.

Not big on speculation,

Not big on speculation, then. 

It's somewhat interesting,

It's somewhat interesting, but what annoys me is Matt's insistance that there's a lesson to be learned from this book. What lesson? Nature good, humans bad?

Sorry, I'm already inundated with white guilt, I'm not getting sucked into the "human guilt" trip. Next thing you know Matt will have us apologizing to trees and giving reparations to rocks.

Absolutely, that's

Absolutely, that's annoying. There aren't any "lessons" here. It's just a fun exercise. Yeah, plastic bags will outlast us, but...so?

bal -

 

After all, the archeologists hundreds of years into the future will need artifacts to dig up ... from us.

We can only hope that it'll

We can only hope that it'll be Target bag. 

"Plastic bags will outlast

"Plastic bags will outlast us."  But they don't have to.  A recently patented process exposes plastics and other petro-products to certain frequencies of microwaves, and they are turned back into the petroleum fractions they were made from.  Or, for those who object to a sentence ending with a preposition: they are turned back into the petroleum fractions from which they were made. 

"A communist is someone who reads Marx.  An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx."  Ronald Reagan

Ogre from Revenge of the

Ogre from Revenge of the Nerds II: after taking a toke of some wacky weed: "What if c-a-t really spelled "dog"?

"Wow, Ogre, that's really deep!" 

"A communist is someone who reads Marx.  An anti-communist is someone who understands Marx."  Ronald Reagan

We have a winner!!! Why is

We have a winner!!!

Why is it that lefties believe that 'the people' noted in the 2nd are different than the 'the people' mentioned elsewhere in the Bill of Rights?

Matt and Meredith are

Matt and Meredith are perfectly matched...between them they might have half a brain.

You're right. It's laying

You're right. It's laying on the floor, between their chairs... 

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

- Arabian Proverb

but God said...

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [b] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

 27 So God created man in his own image,
       in the image of God he created him;
       male and female he created them.

 28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

 31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

OR

the evolution view...millions of years ago monkeys and apes mutated into humans and the world starts to go downhill..

v

...so who would preach

...so who would preach against this stuff anyway?!?!?

could it maybe be.........

SATAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? 

Protest Craig's conservative abandonment - vote Democrat in 08'