Clueless on Catholicism VII: LAT Continues to Air Falsehoods About Catholic Faith

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In a recent news article (Fri. 10/23/09) and a pea-brained editorial (Sat. 10/24/09) regarding Anglicans joining the Catholic Church, the Los Angeles Times again displays its utter ignorance of the Catholic faith.

The Times' editorial is yet another weak attempt to air the paper's position that homosexual acts and women priests should be fully embraced by the Catholic Church.

1. The Times editorial repeats the often-heard canard, "Jesus said nothing about homosexuality." In fact, Jesus most certainly has said a lot about it. The Catechism of the Catholic Church reminds us, "God is the author of Sacred Scripture" (CCC 105). One source for this is 2 Timothy 3:16, which asserts, "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching." Therefore, Jesus, as the second person of the Holy Trinity, has spoken on the issue of homosexuality, not only through natural law, but through the Bible (via Leviticus, Romans 1, and 1 Cor. 6, among others).

2. The Times editorial also claims that because women cannot be priests, they are denied "full participation" in the Catholic Church. What baloney. All people are invited to participate fully in the Church. But as Paul reminds us in 1 Corinthians, we all have our unique gifts and roles. There's a lot more one can say about this, but let's just say this is just complete ignorance from the Times.

3. Meanwhile, the Times news article asserts that the Catholic Church does not allow women priests based on "principle." Well ... not quite. As I've written before, in the Catholic Church, "Holy Orders" is a sacrament, and sacraments were instituted by Jesus himself. The Church simply does not have the authority to change a sacrament. For more on this, read the essential John Paul II 1994 letter "Ordinatio Sacerdotalis."

There's a lot more to take issue with in the Times' article and editorial. (Such as their very flimsy claim, "[The Church has] changed their thinking over the years about everything from usury to the culpability of Jews for the Crucifixion to the desirability of religious tolerance.")

How frustrating it is for a knowledgeable Catholic to pick up the Los Angeles Times and see the Catholic faith misrepresented again and again and again and again and again ...

And how the Los Angeles Times just loves to wallow in such anti-Catholic garbage.

 

—Dave Pierre is the creator of TheMediaReport.com and a contributor to NewsBusters.


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Not won't but CAN'T!

One of the most difficult things for secular folks to get about the Church's teaching on the impossibility of women's ordination is that the Church is not refusing to ordain women.  This is not a matter of won't but can't.  If the Pope, the College of Cardinals, and every bishop on the face of the planet laid hands on a woman and prayed the priestly ordination prayer, said woman would still not be a priest.

Most secular critics of the Church are nomialists--reality is what we say it is.  Catholics are realists--reality is what it is.  How we talk about reality doesn't change reality.  Simply saying that Jane is a priest no more makes her a priest than me saying that I am billionarie.  Reality's like that sometimes.

Dissenters within the Church often claim that women's ordination is a matter of justice.  Well, by definition, justice is receiving what one has a right to.  No one has a right to ordination.  Not even men.   So, the inability of the Church to ordain women cannot be a justice issue.  Besides, you can't demand in justice from another what they cannot give.

Fr. Philip, OP

http://www.hancaquam...

Thank you, Fr. Philip!

Well said!

 

Ditto, Father

Ditto, Father Phillip!

Thanks for a clear and  concise explanation.

And Dave, thank you too, for doing yeoman's work in continually esposing the anti-Catholic agenda of the LAT!

 

 

 

nominalists

You got right to the point of the disconnect, brother -- that Liberal humanists insist that whatever a person believes to be true is 'true for them'... that our beliefs beget reality.

A few weeks ago a parishioner here bragged, "Yesterday I attended a Mass celebrated by a validly ordained Roman Catholic woman priest."  I simply responded, "No such thing," to which she immediately shot back, "Yuh huh!"  Those five words went back and forth a few times without effect, and no matter how carefully I 'splained to her that the 'ordination' was sacramentally invalid, she wouldn't back down.

The practical upshot of this is that I've observed perhaps half the Catholic laity (and a depressing portion of her clergy and religious) are Protestants at heart who insist that adherence to the Tradition, precepts, and hierarchy of the Church are unnecessary elements in today's ecclesiology of conscience.  Like Nancy Pelousy, they presume to contradict Church teaching, then insist that their way of seeing things is more Catholic than Rome's official teaching.

Nice to know there's at least one right-minded presbyter among the Order of Preachers...

Strength of beliefs

The Catholic Church has followed certain tenets for 2000years. The Church, thankfully, has no intention of changing those tenets in order to adapt to the moral decay of an ever changing society. This will allow the faithful a solid foundation of morality as a guide thru the pitfalls of another 2000 years.

I'm curious

As a Catholic, I do not take the time to visit other denominations with the sole purpose of attempting to undermine their theological beliefs - whether or not I agree with them.

How many Catholics do you know who engage in such organized attacks against other denominations with the intention of forcing them to change their doctrine?

So why is it large numbers of heterodox cafeteria Catholics and hostile non-Catholics can, time and again, try to change OUR beliefs.

And - more to the point - why is it these liberal types who are attempting to find "equality" for people like me (a Catholic woman) and those living with SSA chastely (according to Church teaching) never, EVER bother to ask us why we believe the Church's teachings on the priesthood and sexuality are correct?

Why don't they want our opinions?!

Isn't it a little...I don't know...what's the word...condescending of them to speak for us, acting as if they know what's best for us without listening to our opinion?  Don't they accuse the Catholic Church of "not listening" to us when they DON'T LISTEN TO US EITHER?!

I'm a Catholic because I believe the teachings of the Church to be 100% accurate.  I do not believe my worth or sense of equality as a woman is compromised because I cannot be ordained a priest.  Holy Orders are NOT a sacrament for me.  I can fully partake in all the other sacraments.  I am not oppressed or marginalized.

Neither are a majority of the women in the Church who profess the same beliefs as I.  Yet our voices are never heard or considered by those who consider themselves our "betters" and who know what's "fair" for us...

What I should do is get the opinions of my like-minded Catholic sisters and write a book about it.

Aut viam inveniam aut faciam

well said 83

I have never felt marginalized by the Church. The only "betters" out there are self appointed, none have gotten my vote in all my 63 years. I have never felt discriminated against because I am not able to play in the NFL. I am proud of the role God has given me on this side. Writing a book sounds like a great idea. Just remember, being a Christian these days is placing a target on your head. Wear a helmet.( my nfl pun)

Sounds like you've been drinking ...

Catholic kool-aid from the chalice again! <g>

Good point about "cafeteria Catholics" (nice term) and others who, to paraphrase Rush, perform drive-by criticism of the Church's teachings and practices.

Something not mentioned here--which has ramifications in the immigration debate--is the fact that the Church requires compliance with many ritual rules, beginning with proper baptism (and official admission for other Christians) to participate in the sacraments, proper state of mind to receive the Eucharist, training for confirmation, preparation for marriage, etc.

 BTW, what is "SSA"? 

I'm not sure I follow...

What point are you trying to make?  You start off with a sentence criticizing the commenter above you, proceed to say she makes good points (unless you're being sarcastic, which FYI doesn't transmit over the internet particularly well unless it's obvious), and then end by referencing the immigration debate through an unexplained connection with the rituals of the Catholic Church.  I'm a bit confused as to what side you're even trying to take.

 Also, I believe SSA in this context is same-sex attraction. 

I was being sardonic

I concur with her entirely. I was using the device of making a patently obvious faux-criticism to skewer, not her, but typical criticism of her position, as is often heard from critics ignorant of Catholicism. 

The analogy with the immigration debate is this: the Church insists that members meet certain requirements and observe certain protocols, among them, coming in the front door, being admitted by prescribed methods, etc. Many people who oppose illegal immigration are not opposed to the immigrants, just to their being here illegally. 

Fair enough, thanks for the

Fair enough, thanks for the clarification.

selective assent

At a big fund-raiser a couple of months ago (for a grade-school kid with cancer), I was trying my best to mix a little with the vast group of unfamiliar people, when a friend introduced his wife to me/  I told her I was glad to meet her, that I don't recall having met her at church before.  She smiled, said she usually communes with God in nature on Sundays, adding (as if it were a disclaimer of sorts), "I'm a cafeteria Catholic."

I smiled back at her, and with as little snideness as I could muster replied, "That's nice.  Damn shame, though, that there's no cafeteria in heaven -- the eternal feast is a banquet, not a buffet."

I'm anxiously awaiting the

I'm anxiously awaiting the LA Times follow up story in which they will investigate the Muslim religion and decry the killing of gays, and mysogeny toward women.  After all, that's what a fair news organization would do isn't it?  They wouldn't run negative stories only about Christian religions would they?

Gays and women? What about

the Jew behind the rock? And trying to get the zoning board on the guy who sells liquor on the same street as the mosque? and pork merchants, too (not to be confused with our trusty representatives who stuff porky earmarks into big emergency spending bills). 

Don't worry friend...

The Messiah will make sure everone will be treated equal. I know this to be true because he was elected to this purpose. 

"The bureaucracy is growing to meet the needs of the growing bureaucracy"

 

Mightymouth

You could say He was born to it. 

"If the man, with the power, can't keep it under control...some heads are gonna roll." -Judas Priest

Restless1

Of course in this time and place there could NOT be a dictator like Hitler or Mussolini (altho I have seen pictures of O and M that are scary!) 

"The bureaucracy is growing to meet the needs of the growing bureaucracy"

 

When will the LAT realize

that the church they want already exists.  It's called the Anglican Church and/or the Episcopal Church*.  In these you can have all the homosexual acts and women priests you want.  Aside from the fact that the first is wrong and that the second is impossible, there is no need for the Catholic Church to adopt either practice - - it's already covered.  So, stop trying to make the Catholic Church into something it cannot, will not and need not be.  Oh, by the way, why don't you (LA Times) try actually reporting some news for a change.  That's a something that is actually possible (but not very likely).

* Yes, I know there are Anglicans and Episcopalians who reject homosexuality and women's ordination.  I thank God for them and pray for them to come home!

 

I live in the greater L.A. area...

and am not surprised by the Times always showing that there is a way to accentuate the alreay growing problems in the Catholic Church.

They constantly bash Cardinal Mahoney and deservedly so but hitting Holy Mother Church for it's basic foundations and orthodoxy are evil to say the least.

The Catholic Church has been led and directed by example from  its own Saints through Revealtion and example...not by quoting some scripture that has its leanings in the protestant King James version of the bible. or I could venture to say the liberal version.  Not to offend my Protestant friends here.

btw...  The L.A.Times has seen a drop in its circulation like no other paper on the west coast.   Maybe a reason why they take on Enquirer style tactics.

Misogynistic and anti gay Catholic Church

The LAT, like many other newspapers, blogs sites, senior liberal
Episcopalians/Anglicans and the usual uninformed media types insist
that the Catholic Church is misogynistic and anti-feminist:

Protestants, including Anglicans and Episcopalians need to make up
their mind: Are Catholics “scared of the feminine”, or are they
“heretics and extra/ contra biblical” for having accorded to a woman
(only) i.e.Mary,the Mother of Jesus, a "Divine status", through their
Mariology or the teachings about Mary? Furthermore, what about the
status it has given to women in its Canons of Saints, like the Saints
Catherine of Siena, Teresa of Avila and Theresa of Liseaux, all
accorded the rank of Doctors of the Church, a status equivalent to that
of Saint Augustine, St.Thomas Aquinas and St.Jerome.? Can they point to
women like those,with the same status, in their traditions?. Do they
know or have they even heard of them? What about the hundreds and
hundreds of other women saints, many of them Martyrs for the Faith, who
are held up by the Church as exemplars of courage,commitment, honour, virtue and sanctity and to be honoured, imitated and emulated by all Catholics, men and
women? Are they aware that the church was the first organisation in
western civilisation to deliberately place ordinary base-born women,(as
against accident of aristocratic birth) in positions of power and
influence as Heads of Religious Orders (many exerting influence on the
Regulation and Rules of Orders of monks and priests e.g. Descalced
Carmelites), Heads of Abbeys, convents,priories,etc. with authority
over Religious regulation and rules, and also over lands, property and
with significant responsibility for regional administration in both church and civil matters?
In the two thousand years of its existence the Church has never
ordained women to the ranks of the priesthood because it does not have
authority from Christ to do so: He only ordained men as priests.He was very close to and reached out to women during the
course of his Mission on earth, disregarding many of the
contemporary mores of male/female interaction  in the process. Therefore His decision to only appoint men as priests was very deliberate. Particularly at Mass, the peak and epitome of the
sacerdotal role, the priest stand in “Loco Christi”,that is in the
“place of Christ” who called Himself the “Bridegroom” (a male
term) while the Church was His “Bride” (a female term).”

The thought of many Liberal Cafeteria “Roman Catholic brothers and
sisters, both lay and ordained, conservative and liberal, who wish to
belong to a church that treasures diversity of thought.” moving over to
the Anglican/Episcopalian Church is something to be regretted: Its
always sad and a cause for sympathetic head-shaking to see someone
trading down from the Rolls Royce versions to the current models with
the inbuilt obsolescence that goes with the current fad. However it has
the great moral advantage of making honest people of them because it
will force them at last to admit to themselves publicly what their
position really is. No organisation has any need for fifth columnists.
As Jesus Himself said, a “house divided against itself will not
survive” so these people moving out will be an act of purification for
the Catholic Church and it will make it stronger. God certainly moves
in mysterious ways.

As to homosexuality: By definition and practically a bolt is made up of a nut and a screw. It would be the height of stupidity therefore for anyone to declare that either two nuts alone or two screws alone form 
a bolt. Were the law to say so then, as we say, "the law is an ass!". Nothing,
absolutely nothing, and no authority whatsoever either in heaven or on
earth, in defiance of the laws of physics and engineering and
every scientific and natural principle can ever establish  or prove that two nuts alone or two screws alone are capable of performing the functions of a bolt. The same principles apply to same sex relationships and couplings.!! God does NOT contravene His Own rules, principles and purposes!!! He
does not bless or sanctify any action or activity which falls outside the
purpose, and cannot fulfil the functions, of His own creation. Simple really,
under all the rules of nature, science, biology and of God.

catharsis?

Whew.  Been holding that in for awhile, LV?

It's hard to vent something that volumnious without digressing into bitter invective.  Tip of the hat to you for remaining level-headed.  I like the 'bolt' metaphor for marriage, too.

I've heard about the priest standing "in persona Christi" before..... your "in Loco Christi" made me laugh, though -- sounds almost like, "Oooooh, dat cwaaaazy Jesus!"

More cluelessness about Catholicism ... from a Catholic

Patrick Kennedy is in trouble in Providence. No, that one will come later. This is about what the bishop of the Diocese of Providence wrote to Kennedy in response to statements Kennedy made that the Church's opposition  to any health care plan that includes coverage for abortions is a "red herring." The bishop wrote: "Congressman Patrick Kennedy's statement about the Catholic Church's position on health care reform is irresponsible and ignorant of the facts. But the Congressman is correct in stating that "he can't understand." He got that part right." [Ouch]

 More here: Jill Stanek - Patrick Kennedy blasts Catholic Church for blocking pro-abortion healthcare: "I thought they were pro-life" and here Jill Stanek - Smackdown: Patrick Kennedy's bishop calls him "ignorant... a disappointment"

CO2... Wow... ...and

CO2...

Wow...

...and AMEN!

Thanks for this info.

'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart

anti-Christian propaganda, plain and simple

"Jesus said nothing about homosexuality."

Uh, that's because nobody thought to ask....

But seriously, Jesus of Nazereth also said nothing about rape.  So what of it?

That said, Christ, the creator of the world and of marriage, spoke quite plainly on the nature of marriage.  He also endowed man with an intellect, one capable of deductive reasoning (i.e., from the general to the particular), something that appears to have atrophied with the LAT.

 

 

"Steady."  -- Keith Olbermann to Chris Matthews

Now that you mention it,

Jesus didn't have anything to say about credit default swaps or insurance policies with clauses for pre-existing conditions. 

If I remember correctly, the only things he explicitly condemned were "sins against the Spirit" and causing scandal to children (that includes pedophilia, as well as sexualizing pre-teens on TV)