We've reported several times in the past on the Los Angeles Times's problems in reporting on the abortion issue (see here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here.) Its negligence has included ignoring a Panned Parenthood scandal in its own backyard. But then on Friday (2/8/08) the Times published an eye-opening article prominently displayed on the top of page B1: "Abortion clinics operator is charged" (Print edition: "Operator of clinics is charged").
The article chronicles horrific barbarities at a chain of Southern California abortion clinics managed by a Bertha Bugarin. Bugarin has now "been charged with practicing medicine without a license on five patients in February and March 2007." The article begins (WARNING: GRAPHIC LANGUAGE):
By the time paramedics arrived, the patient was lying in a pool of her own blood, her pulse racing and her blood pressure dangerously low.
The woman, identified only as Angela P. in records of the Medical Board of California, had gone to the Clinica Medica Para la Mujer de Hoy in Santa Ana in the summer of 2004 for an abortion.
Whoa. The article then continues by cataloging a number of jaw-dropping episodes:
[Dr. Nicholas] Braemer, the Torrance doctor who appears on some public records as owner of the clinics, admitted to the [Medical Board of California] in 1994 that he performed an abortion in 1987 that removed only one arm of the fetus. The patient expelled the rest of the fetus the next day ... The woman eventually spent a month in a Torrance hospital having her bowel repaired and multiple abscesses drained, the board said ...
In 1999, the board accused Braemer of leaving a fetus' cranium and placenta inside a patient during a 1996 abortion at the Panorama City clinic ...
Torrance-based Mohamed Dia, who surrendered his license in 1999. He admitted to the medical board that he used a van to bring a bleeding patient to a hospital after perforating her uterus and leaving part of the fetus in her body during a 1996 abortion at Clinica Medica ...
San Diego-based osteopath Laurence Reich, who surrendered his license in 2006 after pleading no contest to misdemeanor criminal charges of sexually exploiting two patients during abortions in 2000 at clinics not associated with [clinic owner Bertha] Bugarin ... An earlier board accusation in 1982 had accused Reich of sexual abuse in three cases in 1981 and 1979. Reich asked the women to masturbate and rubbed their genital areas, according to the accusation, which led the board to put Reich on probation for 10 years until 1994 ...
George Dalton Flanigan, who was hired as an independent contractor at five Bugarin clinics in 2002, according to court documents. That same year, at an unnamed hospital, he delivered a dead baby using a vacuum procedure after refusing to perform a cesarean section ...
Kudos to the Times for shining the light on these horrors. But the article begs a number of questions:
Why did it take so long for the abortion mill manager to be charged?
Don't the episodes in the article completely fly in the face of the oft-heard line that abortion is such a "safe" procedure for women?
What about the doctors who work at other chains of abortion clinics in Southern California? In light of discovering the dregs who work at this one particular chain, isn't it worth looking into the doctors who work at other clinics?
Will the Times take that "next step" and dig deeper? I, for one, won't hold my breath. Just seeing this article in a major newspaper is small ray of light in itself?
+_+_+_+_+
P.S. - Life Dynamics has compiled a list of 347 women who have been verified to have been killed by legal abortion; the list is called "Blackmun's Wall." (For other stories, see this, this, and this.) The number of abortion-related deaths is almost impossible to tabulate, as many abortions occur in "nonreporting states" (source, see page 5) and such deaths often go unreported (see this important report.) (For even more on this, read the book Lime 5, by Mark Crutcher.)
—Dave Pierre is the creator of TheMediaReport.com and a contributor to NewsBusters.
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Aborticide
February 11, 2008 - 02:18 ET by Lame CherryI once talked to a woman who related to me she was taken to an abortion shop by her parents and was held down while they ripped the child apart.
It was all quite ghastly in they took her home and apparently botched the aborticide as she got infection and had to have her womb scraped.
I know God hears every one of those babies screams and just as Abraham Lincoln knew that America had to answer for slavery in the Civil War, this nation will answer to God for all of those dead children by their own mothers.
I think often enough about 8 million American babies in heaven asking God "how long till we are recompensed". That has to be as powerful of prayers as when the Israelites were offering their babies up to the fire god Molech in the vast graves they have uncovered in the Israeli state.
I have known a woman who was told to abort her little girl as she would not survive..........she refused and had the baby. The child died a day later from deformities. It was very hard on her, but her conscience was clear..........but the difference is her baby had died and she had not murdered her baby.
I know that it is taboo to call it murder, but one kills to eat, to protect their own life from assault, the government executes criminals and people kill each other in war...........but it is not killing when you take someone else's life no matter how liberals try and salve it.
Everyone lives in a womb all their lives. Whether it is the womb of the atmosphere of earth, a submarine or ship in the ocean, a plane at 5 miles high or the womb of your home when it is 40 below.
People always live in wombs and when we die we even go back to the God whose womb is heaven to life.
I will never understand the butchers who do these things and I thank God I never will. God help the good in this nation who have fought this as aborticide is far worse than slavery when the time for recompense comes.
*HIC IACET ARTORIVS REX QVONDAM REXQVE FVTVRVS
"...Abraham Lincoln knew
February 11, 2008 - 03:01 ET by NL207"...Abraham Lincoln knew that America had to answer for slavery in the Civil War ... "
This is revisionist history. Lincoln was not nearly as comncerned about abolition as he was about collecting tariffs. In the 6 months between his election in Nov. 1860 and his inaguration in April 1861, Lincoln carefully sidestepped the slave issue. He did, however, vow to use federal Troops, if necessary, to collect tariffs in the South. This vow lead S. Carolina to take action against the Office of the Federal Customs Agent in Charleston, South Carolina ... located in a place called Fort Sumter.
Lincoln really did not address abolition until his Emancipation Declaration of 1863, fully two years after hostilities had already commenced.
I think you must be thinking of John Brown.
"I John Brown am now quite certain that the crimes of this guilty land will never be purged away, but with Blood. I had...vainly flattered myself that without very much bloodshed, it might be done." -- John Brown.
History-books don't tend to teach it, but...
February 11, 2008 - 03:34 ET by sarcasmoLincoln wanted blacks to be deported to Liberia or South America, and he was quite honest at the time about why.
JMR
If this is winning, I think I'd rather lose...
→ Lincoln's plan
February 11, 2008 - 03:57 ET by Cool ArrowHence the concentration of blacks in Washington DC.
♣ a seal
Lincoln also knew that
February 11, 2008 - 08:10 ET by motherbeltLincoln also knew that freeing the slaves would break the back, and the spirit, of the South. He was a pragmatist: didn't he also say if he could save the Union by freeing only half of them he would? Or is that a legend?
I never heard that
February 11, 2008 - 08:43 ET by sarcasmoOr the thing about DC above. My guess is that the antislavery side's coalition pre-war wasn't all that united at all, and that by the time of the Emancipation Proclaimation they'd won the argument by default due to the war's costs, despite the fact that it only applied to slaves under southern jurisdiction. I must read more...
JMR
If this is winning, I think I'd rather lose...
→ DC and Freed Slaves
February 11, 2008 - 08:52 ET by Cool ArrowHere's a start sarc.
♣ a seal
Thanks.
February 11, 2008 - 08:54 ET by sarcasmoVery interesting.
JMR
If this is winning, I think I'd rather lose...
Sorry, sarc, I was lazy...I
February 11, 2008 - 10:19 ET by motherbeltSorry, sarc, I was lazy...I guess I could have done the search first, but here it is from Wiki....Lincoln on slavery
The pertinent part is the section on the editorial by Horace Greeley;
In his written response to Horace Greeley's editorial (see below), while a draft of the Emancipation Proclamation sat on Lincoln's desk, he says, "If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that..
See also: William
February 11, 2008 - 04:15 ET by MikeknaJSee also: William Wilberforce.
"The shadow proves the sunshine" - Switchfoot
http://www.xanga.com/mikeknaj
No reply...just a
February 11, 2008 - 08:11 ET by motherbeltNo reply...just a comment...I love your tagline. That's one of my favorite Switchfoot songs.
I have a sick feeling
February 11, 2008 - 09:26 ET by kgI have a sick feeling that botched abortions are fairly common and hidden from the public. Planned Parenthood in Kansas is not any better than LA.
They should ALL be investigated and shut down if necessary. Getting tax dollars qualifies them for Government oversight.
Here, Here! Well spoken,
February 11, 2008 - 11:34 ET by misterbee241Here, Here!
Well spoken, Lame Cherry, Well spoken.
There is none so blind as they that won’t see. Jonathan Swift 1667-1745
The fortunate ones
February 11, 2008 - 07:52 ET by GrannyGrump42Those women are better off than Angela Sanchez, who went to another of those infamous SoCal abortion mills where the owner runs out of quacks and decides to just do the abortions herself. Angela's daughter and sister caught the clinic owner and a former employee trying to stuff Angela's body into the trunk of her own car.
http://realchoice.0catch.com/library/deaths/bl93asanchez.htm
And these women also fared better than a lot of women at the supposedly safe, 100% legal abortion mills in southern California. Planned Parenthood sent Edrica Goode home to die of infection:
http://realchoice.0c...
and sent Diana Lopez home to bleed to death:
http://realchoice.0catch.com/library/deaths/bl02dlopez.htm
→ Sacrament of Abortion
February 11, 2008 - 08:16 ET by Cool ArrowAm I imagining things? Seems there are a lot of Spanish names being laid out here.
Do the Liberals have something of a "final solution" going here?
♣ a seal
Could be
February 11, 2008 - 20:01 ET by GrannyGrump42Yeah, if you look at abortion mortality, it's overwhelmingly Black and Hispanic women, with the occasional poor white trash thrown in.
When you do get a middle-class blue-eyed blonde, like Holly Patterson, then you get people debating "Holly's Law". But when it's Latachie Veal, Tamiia Russell, Guadalupe Negron, Nicey Washington, Eurice Agbagaa, and Magdalena Rodriguez, it's hard to rally people behind any outrage.
When we were working on Lime 5, Tim Murphy of Pro-Life Action League sent us a big fat envelop full of death certificates. I'd known about these women for years, and could rattle off names and dates and details from memory. Tim was just providing us with some additional documentation. I started looking through them.
A few minutes later Mona found me with my head down on the desk crying. She asked what was wrong. I shoved the death certificates at her. "Look at them, Mona. They're all Black women. We'll never be able to get anybody to care."
I've been proved sadly right. As long as it's poor and minority women suffering, the Left isn't going to care. And until the Left cares, it won't change.
If, say, liposuction were
February 11, 2008 - 08:29 ET by motherbeltIf, say, liposuction were causing this many deaths, all the clinics would be shut down and there would be a federal investigation.
→ Maybe motherbelt
February 11, 2008 - 08:31 ET by Cool ArrowBut there is that little "separation of Church and State" issue.
♣ a seal
What does Church and State
February 11, 2008 - 08:39 ET by motherbeltWhat does Church and State have to do with it?
→ Church and State
February 11, 2008 - 08:46 ET by Cool ArrowIt was a thinly veiled reference to the "Sacrament of Abortion" post I made earlier.
I was just hoping to wake you up a bit.
♣ a seal
OK, I'm awake now....LOL
February 11, 2008 - 09:03 ET by motherbeltOK, I'm awake now....LOL
It's real nice to know that a 12 or 13 year old can go to these
February 11, 2008 - 09:45 ET by Dee Bunkwithout the consent or notification of their parents. Liberals are sick in the head.
Right, Dee 12-year-old
February 11, 2008 - 10:24 ET by motherbeltRight, Dee 12-year-old can't even get her ears pierced without parental consent. But every time the subject of minors and abortions comes up, the NARAL and PP types drag up the extreme situation of the evil slug who rapes his 12-year-old stepdaughter...or the 13-year-old who gets pregnant and is sure her father will beat her unmrercifully if he finds out....
Liberals believe in all kinds of restrictions, with the rationale that "if it saves even one life, it's worth it".....except when it comes to abortion.
MB - so right - and the abuse and incest arguments are weak
February 11, 2008 - 11:16 ET by Dee BunkAnyone who knows anything about abuse knows that people who abuse don't do so because of the other persons actions. A child with a parent who beats them doesn't need a pregnancy to get a beating. Will they likely get a beating for the pregnancy - yes, but if it wasn't that it would be something else like forgetting to put napkins on the table.
Abusers abuse because they are sick - it has nothing to do with the victim. For liberals to say that pregnancy would be the cause excuses the abuser and falsely lets the victim think they can control it by their actions. They can't. It's not their fault.
As far as incest and or rape, it's more likely that the abuser will be caught if the evidence is not destroyed. The way laws are now, the abusive person can see that the child gets an abortion and the non parent will never even know. Many relatives convince the child that if they tell anyone they will be punished. If parents were notified then the abuser would be exposed and wouldn't be able to keep raping the child.
Abortion for minors without parental counseling is child abuse. Children need their parents input and support on such a drastic and final decision.
Just a question...a simple one.
February 11, 2008 - 14:12 ET by SyriusD,
How many conservatives have gotten or approved of abortions over the past 36 years since Roe v. Wade? Would they be considered 'sick in the head.', too? Or, they became liberal by their actions so now they're considered 'sick in the head'?
Syrius
That's actually three,
February 11, 2008 - 14:21 ET by MassConservAnd the rhetorical answers to your rhetorical questions are...
One
Yes
Yes
One???
February 11, 2008 - 14:48 ET by SyriusMass,
From the popular '3000 abortions performed each day' with an extrapolation over 36 years...39,420,000 abortions performed...it takes two to tango, so, 78,840,000 paired decisions...hmmm...
That's way too many 'sick in the head' liberals out there, don't cha think? I think your math is wrong. There's plenty of conservatives getting abortions every day, you just don't want to believe it.
Plus, with the usage of the RU486 pill, surgical abortions should be on the decline anyway. Let's face facts with the RU486 pill, there'll be less fuss, less mess, less lawsuits, less evidence of abortions taking place, less psychological problems for the mother, less abuse from spouses and parents,...etc.
Syrius
Syrius,
February 11, 2008 - 14:59 ET by MassConservYou seem to have missed the 'rhetorical' aspect of my response.
There is no confirmable answer to your question and to expect one is absurd.
To expect the least from you is a given.
February 11, 2008 - 15:40 ET by SyriusMassC,
I truly misunderestimated you.
The fact is- you just want to have a group to demonize. Spew forth and bloviate.
Plain and simple, an abortion is chosen by a woman, period. Not a liberal, not a conservative.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Oh, you cut me deep Syrius.
February 11, 2008 - 15:43 ET by MassConservI shall forever ache from that deep wound.
it's never chosen by the
February 11, 2008 - 15:45 ET by TruthMongerit's never chosen by the baby - that's fer sure
Syrius, so I take it this
February 11, 2008 - 16:12 ET by lotrSyrius, so I take it this was the point of your rhetorical questioning? Once again, the mantra "abortion is chosen by a woman, period" while true, is also to state the obvious without providing any real content (i.e., it is also true that "rape is chosen by a man, period").
Have I gotten speeding tickets? Yep, and they hurt, and I usually think of the issuing officer as very uncompassionate (to put it mildly). Does that mean that I think it is my right to choose how fast and wreckless I drive on the highway, without any restriction whatsoever? While a narcissitic side of me might think this from time-to-time (I am human, after all), that doesn't mean I'm about to go out and advocate that "the government should keep its laws off my car!"
Wrong Syrius - Society chooses abortion - not women
February 11, 2008 - 16:28 ET by Dee BunkMany more women have abortions because society accepts it. Men and liberals accept it. Some conservatives do. It's wrong. It's not womens fault, it's the fault of liberals who encourage them to do it.
So women only make
February 11, 2008 - 16:35 ET by balboaSo women only make decisions based on whether or not society says it's OK?
Yes, you are right balboa - the majority do
February 11, 2008 - 16:52 ET by Dee BunkYes, you are right balboa - the majority do
Wow. Not exactly a glowing
February 11, 2008 - 16:55 ET by balboaWow. Not exactly a glowing recommendation for women.
Men are the same way balboa - especially liberal men
February 11, 2008 - 17:14 ET by Dee BunkIt's not a male/female thing, all people are more likely to do something that society condones. That is surprising to you?
Syrius' argument is worthless
February 11, 2008 - 18:39 ET by motherbeltSyrius' argument is worthless from the beginning: he uses the theory that if any conservative woman has ever gotten an abortion, then no other conservative can argue against abortion or claim that it is wrong.
Yes it is a worthless argument MB - and I didn't realize that
February 11, 2008 - 18:51 ET by Dee Bunkhe was originally responding to my post about letting 12 & 13 year olds get abortions without parental consent or notification. Of course anyone who thinks that is okay is sick in the head.
The answer to your question
February 11, 2008 - 14:22 ET by Clear thinkerThe answer to your question is... none of them.
There may be two reasons why, if it happened at all.
1. The mother was in danger.
2. They are NOT real conservatives.
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
IMO...your handle is a misnomer.
February 11, 2008 - 15:50 ET by SyriusClearThinker,
I disagree. You couldn't imagine it to be true that a conservative would have an abortion. Your head would probably explode if a number of conservatives came out of the closet and said they had or agreed to an abortion. That an actual conservative would have or agree to an abortion would now be considered a liberal, or NOT real? What a load...
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Syrius... you are so wrong on so many levels...
February 11, 2008 - 17:08 ET by Clear thinkerOf course you disagree, you don't seem to have a problem with abortion so you will naturally disagree with anything that points to a different perspective.
You fail to see the distinction that I do. Sure, you could find all sorts of conservatives to say they had an abortion, but they were not a conservative at the time they had the abprtion. A lot of times you will find conservative woman became conservative after they spent years looking into their souls and crying night after night knowing they took an innocent life. I doubt you would find many that had abortions while they held the convictions of a real conservative. And then, you will find some that call themselves conservative that have had an abortion, but their really not conservative at all. A real conservative would not murder a baby for selfish reasons.
The Conservative movement is about to be reborn.
Syrius....see my reply just
February 11, 2008 - 18:37 ET by motherbeltSyrius....see my reply just above ClearThinker's
Syrius - Women get abortions because of fear - Liberals play on
February 11, 2008 - 14:39 ET by Dee Bunkand encourage that fear and do everything to block them from getting help.
90% of abortions wouldn't happen if the woman thought she could handle the responsibility. If they knew that people would stand behind them and help them and not judge them then they would be much less likely to have an abortion. Liberals put 100% of the burden and responsibility on the woman. Men should have equal responsibility/burden and children should not make the decision without counseling from people who love them.
Men who rally against abortion are awesome and courageous. Society has made it easy for them to bow out and those who don't are amazing individuals. Thanks to you men out there who speak out against it.
I agree to a point...
February 11, 2008 - 15:15 ET by SyriusD,
90% of abortions wouldn't happen if the woman thought she could handle
the responsibility. If they knew that people would stand behind them
and help them and not judge them then they would be much less likely to
have an abortion.-I full-heartedly agree with your statement and have said this ad nauseum through all the threads on the abortion issue. It's the part on you, as a conservative, standing behind and supporting them is where we begin to disagree. For I believe, we as Americans, should strengthen the social programs in place and expand health and educational coverage of the unwanted babies. The mother should not live a life of abject poverty for having a child. She should be supported in her decisions on the child's welfare.
Liberals put 100% of the burden and responsibility on the woman.-I think you got your terms mixed up. Normally, it's the conservatives who believe it's the mother's responsibilty to choose on having 'sexual relations' with a partner. The conservatives lay the blame and the burden on the mother getting pregnant in the first place and now it's up to her to feed and clothe the child.
Men should have equal responsibility/burden and children should not
make the decision without counseling from people who love them.-you're now assuming all pregnancies come out of a loving relationship where the mother is treated with the upmost respect in her decision to possibly have an abortion.
Men who rally against abortion are awesome and courageous.-Even the ones who kill abortion doctors?
Society has
made it easy for them to bow out and those who don't are amazing
individuals.-?????
Thanks to you men out there who speak out against it.-Just remember to respect your wife if she decides against having another baby you can't afford or don't want.
Syrius
the babies are always
February 11, 2008 - 15:46 ET by TruthMongerthe babies are always innocent:)
Social programs don't work toward anything but keeping people
February 11, 2008 - 15:49 ET by Dee Bunkin poverty. The African American community is a good example. Their culture is much more against abortion and they rely on the social programs and they are the ones in poverty. It doesn't work because there is no personal responsibility. If their parents and the community encouraged getting married and taking responsibility they could rise out of poverty. If the parents and grandparents take responsibility they are more likely to raise out of poverty and to independence.
Christian charities all over raise money to take care of and find homes for unwanted babies and to help people in need. Haven't you seen any of the hot line bumper stickers for people who are pregnant and scared? They are all over in my area. They are willing to talk to them, counsel, and find solutions. Planned parenthood refers 1% of people to adoption and that is probably less than would go with no counseling what so ever. They certainly don't do anything for those who decide to go through with it.
Conservatives don't put the responsibility on the woman only. I have no idea where you got that idea. I also don't get what makes you think I assume all pregnancies come from loving relationships. That has nothing to do with it.
How rude to imply that men who rally against abortion are all clinic bombers. How many of those have there been? There probably isn't a decimal small enough to give the percentage of the population there. It's ludicrous to even bring it up. The amount of men who support killing babies is a significant one. That is one you should worry about.
If I were to get pregnant and bring up an abortion option (from fear that we couldn't afford it), I hope to God I married a strong enough man to help me (like a man should) and tell be not to worry that he will take care of us and everything will be okay. Things always work out. It's rare that a person wishes they had been aborted or that a parent wishes their child had never been born but almost anyone who has had an abortion regrets it to some degree or another.
And let us not forget the
February 11, 2008 - 16:19 ET by lotrAnd let us not forget the primordial community, the family.
Yes - lotr - most definitely - Focus on the Family
February 11, 2008 - 16:24 ET by Dee BunkYes - lotr - most definitely - Focus on the Family
Debunked...
February 11, 2008 - 16:27 ET by SyriusDeeBunk,
Social programs don't work toward anything but keeping people in poverty. The African American community is a good example. Their
culture is much more against abortion and they rely on the social
programs and they are the ones in poverty. It doesn't work because
there is no personal responsibility. If their parents and the community
encouraged getting married and taking responsibility they could rise
out of poverty. If the parents and grandparents take responsibility
they are more likely to raise out of poverty and to independence.-WOW!!! I'll refrain from commenting on this passage and let it be for I have a dream...http://www.mlkonline.net/dream.html
Christian charities all over raise money to take care of and find
homes for unwanted babies and to help people in need. Haven't you seen
any of the hot line bumper stickers for people who are pregnant and
scared? They are all over in my area. They are willing to talk to them,
counsel, and find solutions. Planned parenthood refers 1% of people to
adoption and that is probably less than would go with no counseling
what so ever. They certainly don't do anything for those who decide to
go through with it.-Planned Parenthood gives out more information from both sides of the issue which helps in a more informed decision for the woman. You may not agree but it's okay for you to judge, right?
Conservatives don't put the responsibility on the woman only. I have
no idea where you got that idea.-From this site and most of the radical NBers. I will search this website for the true gems.
I also don't get what makes you think
I assume all pregnancies come from loving relationships. That has
nothing to do with it.-It has a lot to do with 'it' when it comes down to allowing the 'man' to have a say on the woman's right to decide.
How rude to imply that men who rally against abortion are all clinic
bombers.How many of those have there been? There probably isn't a
decimal small enough to give the percentage of the population there.
It's ludicrous to even bring it up.-Although rare, the support for such actions is quietly approved of in the battle against abortionist doctors. You cannot say the support does not exist.
The amount of men who support
killing babies is a significant one. That is one you should worry
about.-If they don't want to support what they produced, they should have worn a condom.
If I were to get pregnant and bring up an abortion option (from fear
that we couldn't afford it), I hope to God I married a strong enough
man to help me (like a man should) and tell be not to worry that he
will take care of us and everything will be okay. Things always work
out.-From your statements above-you're not African-American, are you? I'm wondering how things ALWAYS work out for you but not others...
It's rare that a person wishes they had been aborted or that a
parent wishes their child had never been born but almost anyone who has
had an abortion regrets it to some degree or another.-Phew, I'm trying to follow this one. How many kids and adults in therapy suffering from depression have said, "I wish I was never born..."? (I think your watching way too much of "It's A Wonderful Life."). And how many sick parents have said the immortal words, "I wish you had never been born...". As I have said before I agree some woman, not all, regret their abortions. At least they had a choice.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
You are a sick puppy Syrius
February 11, 2008 - 16:49 ET by Dee BunkTo imply that because someone says "I wish I'd never been born" or " I wish you'd never been born" means they wish they would have been murdered is quite a stretch. Most people say that in moments of depression and/or anger and probably everyone has thought it at one time or another. Does that mean we should just nuke the world and be done with it?
MLK believed in the family - not fatherless families living on welfare. I explained why it isn't working out for the African American community. They rely on government not on the family and community.
Planned Parenthood doesn't present both sides - it hands out pamphlets. They don't counsel and that is why only 1% are referred for adoption. Like I said, no counseling would produce better results.
And yes - men should be responsible for children they create even when they rape a woman or have a one night stand, not just when it's a loving relationship. Most of the loving relationships are not the problem. It's the sexual loveless ones that are.
Your logic is so twisted - You think that people quietly support abortion bombers even though they publicly speak out against them. You have absolutely nothing to base that on except for your own hate. It's a rotten, horrible, hateful and bigoted thing to say and you should be ashamed of it. That is the same twisted logic that liberals use to say Most Islamic leaders don't support the terrorists even though they don't speak out against them. Anyone can say crap like that. What matters is what people say and do not what you think they actually mean.
Bigoted???
February 11, 2008 - 17:02 ET by SyriusDeeBunk,
Did I touch a nerve?
WOW! Once again...the only thing I hate, DeeBunk, is when I expose and combat the soft bigotry of low expectations. I just don't want to believe the existence remains in the hearts of so-called true believers and the self-righteous. It astounds me. I'm going to refrain from anymore discussions with you for you do not know what you've said or written and the latent bigotry that possesses you.
Syrius
"...the dire consequences to society when people begin to believe that by
renaming someone to erase their humanity opens the door to the
devaluation of everyone's life..."-dscott
Fine Syrius - I'll still point out your hateful bigotry toward
February 11, 2008 - 17:11 ET by Dee BunkChristians. It's despicable. I don't need or want responses from someone like you. I'll continue to point out when you say outrageous things.
"The conservatives lay the
February 11, 2008 - 17:53 ET by lotr"The conservatives lay the blame and the burden on the mother getting pregnant in the first place"
I don't think anyone on this blog would disagree with me when I say that both men and women have a responsibility here -- i.e., refrain from the "babymaking" act unless a baby is accepted a priori as a possible outcome (even if using contraception). But wait -- according to liberal conventional wisdom, it is only the woman who gets to freely decide whether or not to undergo an invasive procedure to destroy the mutual offspring of the woman and the man. That mentality does shift all the responsibility onto the woman as she is the ultimate decision-maker. And that's why there are so many men out there for abortion -- they are with the program not because of some noble chivalry for woman (although some may delude themselves on this) -- it exonerates them from any responsibility in the matter. It is a patent lie that "abortion is a woman's issue" -- there is no statistical difference between men and women on the issue -- the demographic difference lies in ideology.
exatly Lotr! Well said
February 11, 2008 - 17:58 ET by Dee Bunkexatly Lotr! Well said
Thanks, fellow pro-lifer.
February 11, 2008 - 20:45 ET by lotrThanks, fellow pro-lifer.
Call me skeptical...
February 11, 2008 - 11:03 ET by ontheright...but I would trust Wikipedia for accurate information like I would trust either BO or HRC to run our great nation. </sarc off>
U.S. Planned Parenthood
February 11, 2008 - 12:09 ET by lotrU.S. Planned Parenthood Reports Record Profit, Record Amount of Taxpayer Funding: Received taxpayer funds totaling $305.3 million — a whopping $32.6 million (12 percent) more than last year [2006]
Planned Parenthood’s total income for the year was $902.8 million, with a $55.8 million profit.
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2007/jun/07060811.html
great info -
February 11, 2008 - 12:22 ET by TruthMongergreat info - thanks...
looks like PP can kill alot more people everyday than big tobacco - for less money - much better ROI - great investment
if a major pharmecuetical could just acquire PP then maybe the libs could finally bring themselves to dramatize a long-overdue expose'
I left my dead baby in a
February 11, 2008 - 12:19 ET by lotrI left my dead baby in a toilet at George Tiller's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aMC_70oYV8U