On Defensive, NY Times Takes on 'Torture Apologists' Who See Vindication of Harsh Interrogation Tactics
Thursday's New York Times lead editorial defended the paper's left-wing ideological ground against conservative arguments that the killing of Osama bin Laden is a vindication of harsh interrogation methods used on terrorist detainees in Guantanamo Bay and elsewhere: "The Torture Apologists – Efforts to justify torture after the Bin Laden killing are cynical and destructive."
As the headline proves, the Times has made itself quite comfortable with using the loaded word "torture" to describe broad interrogation methods like water-boarding and sleep deprivation that inflict temporary physical panic but not permanent damage.
The killing of Osama bin Laden provoked a host of reactions from Americans: celebration, triumph, relief, closure and renewed grief. One reaction, however, was both cynical and disturbing: crowing by the apologists and practitioners of torture that Bin Laden’s death vindicated their immoral and illegal behavior after the Sept. 11 attacks.
Still ignoring C.I.A. Director Leon Panetta's admission on Tuesday night that "enhanced interrogation techniques" like waterboarding did produce actionable intelligence, the Times cited its own incomplete reporting from yesterday to conclude that "torture" was little or no help in leading the Seals to bin Laden's hideout in Pakistan.
There is no final answer to whether any of the prisoners tortured in President George W. Bush’s illegal camps gave up information that eventually proved useful in finding Bin Laden. A detailed account in The Times on Wednesday by Scott Shane and Charlie Savage concluded that torture “played a small role at most” in the years and years of painstaking intelligence and detective work that led a Navy Seals team to Bin Laden’s hideout in Pakistan.
That squares with the frequent testimony over the past decade from many other interrogators and officials. They have said repeatedly, and said again this week, that the best information came from prisoners who were not tortured. The Times article said Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, who was waterboarded 183 times, fed false information to his captors during torture.
Then the Times takes a stand, and confesses that even if a useful tip was extracted during waterboarding or some other temporarily debilitating method the Times terms "torture," the paper would still be opposed to it on principle:
Even if it were true that some tidbit was blurted out by a prisoner while being tormented by C.I.A. interrogators, that does not remotely justify Mr. Bush’s decision to violate the law and any acceptable moral standard.
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Comments
Sheppy video
Submitted by jon_torlin on Thu, 05/05/2011 - 5:08pm.
Someone needs to see if they can find that video of Shep Smith where he was doing a web broadcast or something, had trace gallager I think, and went on some kind of tirade where he said: "We don't F**king torture!" or something along those lines.
-Jon
jon...Here it is...
Submitted by PrairieSky on Thu, 05/05/2011 - 5:20pm.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzfQuIgpW6o
Shep Smith...The Fox News resident Obama apologist and libnut.
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction...It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them (our children) to do the same." ~President Ronald Reagan
Yep
Submitted by jon_torlin on Thu, 05/05/2011 - 5:43pm.
That's the one, boy, he made an ass of himself. Even Fox News, a "conservative right wing news organization" has its share of libnuts. NYTimes and WaPo and others don't hold the monopoly on them, though they'd like to.
-Jon
confused again*
Submitted by cajun2 on Thu, 05/05/2011 - 6:02pm.
The alphabet media keep comparing events and actions to make Obama look good.
Which is worse, waterboarding or "sanctioned assasination?
Bush instituted "torture"which was a bad bad thing and Obama approved of an assasination and he is courageous. They always confuse me with their blatant hypocrisy.
Great point, Caj
Submitted by SickofLibs on Thu, 05/05/2011 - 6:27pm.
No one in Gitmo ever died from waterboarding. Not even close.
I know...It's a bit pitiful the way in which the MSM...
Submitted by PrairieSky on Thu, 05/05/2011 - 6:34pm.
tries so hard to validate and prop up their empty suit pretender....And the hypocrisy??? Off the charts.
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction...It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them (our children) to do the same." ~President Ronald Reagan
I'd be quite happy to say "bye bye" to...
Submitted by PrairieSky on Thu, 05/05/2011 - 6:07pm.
Mr. Smith, but not because he's a lib...(It actually pains me a bit to say this, since Shep is a fellow Southerner, and I understand and enjoy his Southern colloquialisms).
This is a free country and everyone is entitled to their own opinions, no matter how wacky or looney they might be. My problem with Shep is that he allows his political ideology to invade and color his reporting, and more and more he has been including opinionated asides while on camera, and I've really had enough of it. Fox News was created and intended specifically not to do this type of thing, as opposed to the rest of the MSM, and why the powers-that-be at Fox apparently look the other way at Smith's on air commentary and behavior, escapes me. I am actually hoping that one of these days, he'll have a melt down so off the scale that he'll be fired for it...Until then, when he's on the air, I either hit the mute button, or change the channel.
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction...It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them (our children) to do the same." ~President Ronald Reagan
Shemp is just as bad as the conservative wingnuts on MSNBC.
Submitted by SickofLibs on Thu, 05/05/2011 - 6:38pm.
Tee hee hee.
Cute...
Submitted by PrairieSky on Thu, 05/05/2011 - 6:41pm.
Very cute... ;-D
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction...It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them (our children) to do the same." ~President Ronald Reagan
Shemp or me?
Submitted by SickofLibs on Thu, 05/05/2011 - 6:44pm.
;)
You, definitely
Submitted by Blonde on Thu, 05/05/2011 - 6:47pm.
Sheps looks remind me of my father. Shudder.
Handy Reference Guide to Obama's Gaffes and Goofs ~ Currently Numbering 200 (and Counting)
Definitely you, SoL...No contest!
Submitted by PrairieSky on Thu, 05/05/2011 - 6:56pm.
LOL! ;-)
"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction...It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them (our children) to do the same." ~President Ronald Reagan
"torture"
Submitted by AntiMedia on Thu, 05/05/2011 - 7:19pm.
I don't care if we torture terrorist and I also don't mind if we shoot them in the head.
How are interrogation methods worse than drone missiles....
Submitted by merly1 on Thu, 05/05/2011 - 8:19pm.
seeking out and killing perps and nearby innocents alike? The drones are judge, jury, and executioner, and dont get me wrong, I like what the drone does for America. I just dont get the people who feign outrage at waterboarding, but pretend like drones are some magical instrument of justice. Does anybody get this?
Not illegal, and the NYSlimes
Submitted by eaglewingz08 on Thu, 05/05/2011 - 7:20pm.
Not illegal, and the NYSlimes is hardly the arbiter of what is moral or immoral given its sanction and advocacy for killing 50 million babies over the past forty years. None of the critical intelligence for the killing of OBL came from sources or methods that the NYSlimes has approved of. The crucial intel came from waterboarding, enhanced interrogations, black sites, warrantless telephone interceptions, and from the imprisonment of enemy combatants in the war of choice, not necessity, Iraq.
Exercise in Futility?
Submitted by IrateNate on Thu, 05/05/2011 - 7:59pm.
Maybe we're barking up the wrong tree here. What about stopping the "harsh interrogation techniques" and just handing over large sacks of money to the "detainee"? This seems to be the proven method in and around our nation's capital...
Nate
Submitted by Radical1979 on Thu, 05/05/2011 - 8:33pm.
That was the Joy Behar solution.
And besides
Submitted by Boudin on Thu, 05/05/2011 - 9:09pm.
We already do that!
Three things you can't buy,
Submitted by Rowane on Fri, 05/06/2011 - 1:09am.
Three things you can't buy, love, Truth and friendship. This is why the US should give nothing in foreign aid to countries unaligned with us.
You've got to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything. (Aaron Tippin)
The USA should give nothing
Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Fri, 05/06/2011 - 4:47am.
The USA should give nothing in foreign aid period.
Torture
Submitted by m1xram on Fri, 05/06/2011 - 1:26am.
Torture is not forcing someone to listen to Donny Osmand music in spite of what was shown in Attack of the Killer Tomatoes. Nor, is pouring water on someone after a physical to determine your health and then having doctors standing by.
Torture is being beaten nearly to death before you're behead, like our enemies do in the Mideast. Torture is having your hands wired to a ceiling cleat with your feet in the water while they hook you to the AC, like Sadam's police did. Torture is having your feet beaten until they bleed every day till your dead, like they do in North Korea. Torture is being tied upright with a burning car tire around your neck until your dead, like they do in Africa. It takes up to 45 minutes.
Discomfort is not torture.
The opposite of Left is Freedom.
My wife dragged me to see
Submitted by Dan The Man 2 on Fri, 05/06/2011 - 4:50am.
My wife dragged me to see Donny and Marie in Vegas last week, so I know of what you speak.
Selective memory at the Times
Submitted by DaChew on Fri, 05/06/2011 - 5:50am.
They seem to have forgot or, more probably, choose to ignore the fact that Congress took up this question of whether enhanced interrogation techniques, specifically waterboarding, did constitute torture. As I recall, that was voted down. So waterboarding is not torture. If it was, it would have been already illegal - no need to pass a new law at all. Congress proved, both by attempting to pass the law and the failure to pass it, that waterboarding is not torture. Also, of course the vast majority of the American public does not support this waterboarding = torture meme they're trying to worm into our thinking. Americans have definitely seen the methods that were actually used and what constitutes actual torture, as demonstrated vividly by Al Qeda and Sadam Hussein, and have rejected the idea that they both fall under the umbrella of the word "torture". It's just that simple. That's not going to stop them from blathering and posing away about it though. We just need to keep checking them on this. We cannot allow them to use the word "torture" with regard to the operation on bin Laden because nobody was tortured for information or evidence - because enhanced interrogation techniques, waterboarding, are not torture.
Torture
Submitted by Staying Normal ... on Fri, 05/06/2011 - 5:37pm.
Times is completely irresponsible as a journalistic institution. "Enhanced interrogation," which does not cause permanent injury or damage (physically or psychologically) and conducted on non- citizens, under controlled conditions during war on enemy combatants is not "torture" legally or morally. As someone pointed out congress voted for it! The times has no credibility in referring to it only that way.
To say Bush acted illegally is also irresponsible since he repeatedly consulted with counsel before any of the these techniques were sanctioned. They still have not been found to be "illegal," although Obama stopped using them and has put his own "Torquemada" on it, Eric Holder, to prosecute patriotic people in Bush admin, CIA agents, lawyers who Ok'ed the procedures. Ridiculous.
Finally, when the left can't win on the moral argument, they over-reach and say its not effective. Anybody with common sense knows, that threats of force are going to yield some useful information and garner cooperation. Of course, people being "tortured" might confess to false accusations or lie..but that's not all we are talking about. Mark Thessin, said during water-boarding they asked questions they knew answers to of belligerent combatants. What it actually did was wear them down, until finally they were ready to "talk." Yielding useful information that would not have been otherwise obtained. The average American understands this. The Times' over-educated self righteous metrosexuals don't want to because they are too civilized ever to punch back or stoop to what they perceive to be their uncivilized opponents level.
The irony, is there is responsible moral argument against "enhanced interogation" and thoughtful people should be wary of where it bleeds into torture and can be misused, but what the left does by its righteous indignation and insisting "it never works" and banning it is immoral itself, because when our govt can get information that saves innocent American lives through these techniques and doesn't do it, not only is it not doing its job, but it is acting immorally.