Citizens opposed to Obama's health-care overhaul are not only white, irritable, and angry, as the New York Times has confirmed in two front-page stories -- they're ignorant as well.
That's the new wrinkle reporter David Stout brings to the debate, in his web-only report Wednesday afternoon on congressional town hall meetings across the country dominated by health-care concerns, "For Lawmakers, Health-Plan Anger Keeps Coming."
Lawmakers ran into fresh anger and skepticism on Wednesday as they fielded questions from constituents worried about changes in the health care system, and about a lot of other things having to do with government.
The queries hurled at legislators from the Atlantic Seaboard to the nation's midsection reflected deep-seated fears, a general suspicion of government and, in some cases, a lack of knowledge on the part of the questioners.
"Why does the government want to rush into this bill when many don't want it?" Senator Ben Cardin, Democrat of Maryland, was asked at a "town meeting" in Hagerstown. "Why are you rushing this?"
Calmly, the senator replied in a snippet shown on CNN, "We've got to take as much time as we need to get it right." And he added, "The status quo is unacceptable."
Stout raised a picky and condescending objection (and avoided the fact that Democrats control the House, Senate, and presidency):
The senator was too polite (or intent on survival) to correct his questioner by pointing out that there is not one bill yet, but rather several proposals working their way through five committees in both houses of Congress, and that to talk of "the government" as a single entity makes no sense, at least in this context, because of the divisions between Republicans and Democrats, House and Senate, Capitol Hill and the White House.
The Times never went to such great lengths to correct left-wing anti-war protesters who carried "No Blood for Oil!" signs, or called President Bush a fascist.
Stout returned to the theme of ignorant constituents:
Senator Arlen Specter, the Republican-turned-Democrat from Pennsylvania, endured another day of hostile, sometimes fact-defying questions at a town meeting in State College, Pa., The Associated Press reported.
Stout also referred to "groundless assertions that health-care legislation would call for 'death panels' to determine who lives and dies (the AARP, the lobby for older Americans, calls such charges 'lies')."
The Times has bluntly called the "death panels" idea (first circulated on a Facebook post by former Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin) false on several occasions. Yet some liberal supporters of health care reform aren't so quick to dismiss concerns about allowing Medicare to pay for end-of-life counseling in the name of cutting costs.
Columnist Eugene Robinson and editorial writer Charles Lane of the Washington Post, while slamming Palin's "death panels" language as misleading and over-the-top, have also voiced qualms.
Lane wrote:
Though not mandatory, as some on the right have claimed, the consultations envisioned in Section 1233 aren't quite "purely voluntary," as Rep. Sander M. Levin (D-Mich.) asserts. To me, "purely voluntary" means "not unless the patient requests one." Section 1233, however, lets doctors initiate the chat and gives them an incentive -- money -- to do so. Indeed, that's an incentive to insist. Patients may refuse without penalty, but many will bow to white-coated authority.
—Clay Waters is the director of Times Watch, an MRC project tracking the New York Times.
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Useful Idiots
August 13, 2009 - 14:07 ET by MissourimulePublic support for the health care reform plan proposed by President
Obama and congressional Democrats has fallen to a new low with just 42%
of U.S. voters now in favor of it. That’s down five points from two
weeks ago and down eight points from six weeks ago.
Overall, Republicans lead Democrats in terms of voter trust on eight out of 10 key issues for the second consecutive month, and the two are tied on one issue.
There is a reason for this despite NYT and Obamatrons wishing it were not so
and deriding those that feel the government had gotten out of control.
The reason is that the Obama plan stinks and those Obamatrons cant stand the light being shown on it for what it really is. It
is not radio pundits that are controlling this, but the people who know
a stinking piece of legislation/excessive government control when they
smell it. My own 81 year old father is part of the so called "mob" and
along with his friends have attended several rally s in Arizona and
garnered much support by from drivers and passers by.
NYT article is the literary equivalent of the Obama liberal game
playbook, denounce, marginalize. They tried it on Joe the Plumber, but
now there are millions of "regular Joes" and Obamatrons are
reacting like a vampire to a mirror.
enjoying the debate
August 13, 2009 - 14:33 ET by soosanI for one am enjoying the current health care debate. Here's an item from CheeseHead land.
Health care proponent U.S. Rep Tammy Baldwin is going to forego townhall meetings in her district this year (even though she's been doing them for years and years) comments can be made via telephone or email. Luckily I was sent an e-survey by her office and was able to make sure that at least one person from this heavily Democratic district defended the free market.
This whole issue of conservatives exercising their freedom of speech is driving the Dems crazy. On a trip to the State Capital the other day one State Senator was literally sputtering about the "uncivil tone" of the health care opponents when we walked into his office. I bit my tongue and didn't mention the 1st ammendment.....
My US Rep, Mike Michaud (D)
August 13, 2009 - 16:15 ET by celatorMy US Rep, Mike Michaud (D) and Maine's other lost-in-space Representative, Chellie Pingree (D), were last seen hiding under their beds this recess, shivering like they had seen a boogeyman.
I've asked them both when they were going to have public meetings, and sent them questions I wanted to ask them. Absolutely no response from them.
These two dolts aren't having public, open forum, face to face meetings with constituents over Obama's HellCare Health Rationing Bill this recess. No sirree. Too busy, It might rain. Intergalactic hybrid monsters are looking for them. Or something.
Obviously, they are HUGE supporters of whatever it is that Obama and Pelosi want in that health rationing bill. They don't know what's in it yet, since they haven't read it. But they want it passed. They'll read the bill after it passes. Too busy right now to read it.
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
Yes, nothing says 'ignorant'
August 13, 2009 - 14:25 ET by kefkaYes, nothing says 'ignorant' more than people reading text from, and asking questions about, the actual bills that are forming in the house or senate.
Exactly, exactly,
August 13, 2009 - 14:32 ET by black47211Exactly, exactly, exactly!
www.pelicanmarsh68.blogspot.com
hmmmm
August 13, 2009 - 14:32 ET by Kekela Ward"a lack of knowledge on the part of the questioners."
I guess they've been reading the NY Times.
Sam: "I hurt somebody's feelings once"
Human relations
August 13, 2009 - 15:10 ET by iveseenitallThe "ignorance" is not at all on the part of the "mobs". Ignorance is no more evident than in the reaction of this bunch of Chicago thugs and their sychophants in the media to Americans acting like Americans. One area in which they lack expertise is human relations. Do they really believe that by calling the American people names, by demeaning them at every opportunity, by lying about hem, by questioning their motives, by calling them ignorant, that they will get their way in the end? If they do believe that, they are even dumber than they look.
BTW---It is so great to see them squirm!
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
I agree, the protesters are ignorant.
August 13, 2009 - 14:36 ET by Willis_Leon_JohnsonSO...
Leave the union mobster thugs back in te union hall, so there is more room for HIGHLY INTELLIGENT PEOPLE that are smart enough to recognize garbage when it shows up in congress.
Now, about that birth certificate, student aid for an Indonesian applicant, Passport used to go to Pakistan, renouncing of his Indonesian citizens ship, as well as renouncing his British ctizenship?
http://gjresult.com
What I have learned from the town halls
August 13, 2009 - 14:39 ET by 10ksnookerIs just how ignorant, shallow in thought, totally lacking in deductive reasoning skills these congressional clunkers really are. When confronted with real people, they simply don't have a clue.They obviously don't read nor comprehend the bills they vote for.
Once you strip off the trappings of the WDC wall of power, out from in front of the adulating press corps, they are just not very bright. They seem like actors not real people.
I am not shocked, just saying it's really easy to see.
10ksnooker: I've often
August 13, 2009 - 14:43 ET by QueenMum10ksnooker: I've often heard radio talkers like Laura Ingraham comment on how insulated politicians are in D.C. It's becoming obvious to the general public. But until recently I don't think a lot of people really understood the pervasiveness of elitism in the halls of government. Your comment is spot on.
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out
of other people's money."
—Margaret Thatcher
Right on
August 13, 2009 - 16:33 ET by iveseenitallQM + 10k:
Right on. The masks are coming off. We simply do not have the "best and the brightest" leading this nation. I wince every time I hear Bill O"Reilly use the word "brilliant" about Obama. As can be seen by his absolutely stupid comment about the Post Office "troubles" in relation private sector companies, a remark which proves that gov't healtcare will be inferior, and his many other gaffes which are ignored by the press, Barry is far from "brilliant". He and his wife are Affirmative Action Ivy League. And let's not begin to talk about the likes of Barney Frank, Al Franken, Maxine Waters, Teddy Kennedy, Harry Reid, Nancy Pelosi, Sheila Jackson Lee, et.al. Scheeze!
NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"
QM...good
August 13, 2009 - 22:29 ET by celatorQM...good points.
Politicians mocked our anger when TARP and the "Stimulus Bill" were passed.
Politicians laughed at us when the 700 Tea Parties were held coast to coast on April 15, 2009.
Politicians call us traitors, out of control, and NAZIs when we confront them at the town hall meetings.
It is time to fumigate the Congress and elect new people who represent us.
What is going on now in the country is the largest citizen revolt against politicians in Washington we have ever witnessed. And they still don't get it!
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
cel & all... Hear!
August 13, 2009 - 22:37 ET by bigtimercel & all...
Hear! Hear!
They still don't get it indeed.
Obama's a Community Agitator, a walking, talking destroyer. ~ Rush Limbaugh
BT.. and the citizens'
August 13, 2009 - 22:41 ET by celatorBT.. and the citizens' revolt will continue to grow until the politicians take their fingers out of their ears and listen to us, and then act accordingly! It can't be that difficult.
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
Another reason why fact checks aren't
August 13, 2009 - 14:42 ET by KC MulvilleThese guys were trying to rush it through at the last minute. It was only because of loud and vigorous resistance that they didn't ram through any of these bills. The dismissive reply that the people were ignorant ... is itself ignorant of the recent history ... that the people were more aware of than the Times.
Journalists are certain they are more informed than the rest of us, but only in the sense they rely on other journalists. They possess more reports about reality than the rest of us, but that doens't mean their grasp of reality is any better, because many of those reports are simply wrong.
KC: You've hit on the crux
August 13, 2009 - 14:49 ET by QueenMumKC: You've hit on the crux of the matter. If journalists stuck to being journalists the public wouldn't have to badger politicians for the truth. Gather the facts - all the facts - and report them. Report what you know to be true, not what you want to be true or hope will be true.
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out
of other people's money."
—Margaret Thatcher
Why town halls are as they are...
August 14, 2009 - 01:23 ET by UnsaneIt's ironic to me to se the media types whine incessantly about how "uncivil" the town hall meetings are becoming, when really, the only reason they are becoming more confrontational, IMHO, is the absolute lack of journalism in the United States.
The press is protected in the First Amendment in order to give someone out there a "watchdog" role in government. What happens when the press abdicates its watchdog role and instead turns to advocacy in such ways that would make the producers of Время and the publishers of Правда and Neues Deutschland proud? Why, the people have to go researching the information on their own, and then you have the current situation with the town hall meetings today.
I have no sympathy either for the media nor for the politicians who want the Congress of the United States turned into a Politburo or a Volkskammer for His Majesty The Shahinshah (so that He can rule, not govern, the country).
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
NYTimes staff predominently ANGRY WHITE liberals
August 13, 2009 - 14:47 ET by Jack BauerIn line with the update, I have updated my post on the original thread
I did a little checking on the Opinion writers and Editorial writers at the New York Times.
It seems that the Gray Lady is 90% staffed and managed by an...
And boy, are they getting ANGRIER and SHOUTIER by the day, as the working stiffs of America IGNORE their sage advice to shut up.
Who the %@*% do these rubes THINK they are?
UPDATE
They are so ignorant at the New York Times, that they do not comprehend that dissent against Obama is allowed.
And that it is quite possible to find areas of disagreement with a quasi-Marxist that have nothing to do with his race, or lack thereof.
At the moment.
Say it loud, I'm white, ignorant and proud!
August 13, 2009 - 15:12 ET by jefflebowskiThe left HATES to believe someone could disagree with their socialist (oops...the new N word!) ideology. If we don't agree, we must be racist or stupid! In that case, I'm glad to be both!
Why do conservatives try so hard to prove they're neither racist or ignorant to the MSM? They'll never stop saying it because they are not interested in truth! They have an agenda to sell to the real stupid people...liberals!
Angry White Dude
www.angrywhitedude.c...
Why do conservatives try so
August 14, 2009 - 11:36 ET by Jack BauerI know. It's PATHETIC. I never rise to that bait. I just bounce back that... no they're the racist. They're the Nazi.
You CANNOT prove a negative in this sense, that you are NOT something, so why bother. Just punch back twice as hard, if you can be bothered.
As mark Levin says in one of his trails "I'm not interested in getting into an argument with a moron..."
August 13, 2009 - 15:14 ET by jessieHSounds like the New York Times want's everyone to boycott the New York Times. What a way to run a busisness. Maybe they're owned by the govt.
THE SIGNS OF IMPENDING DEMOCRAT COLLAPSE
August 13, 2009 - 15:15 ET by Sgthulka#3. Insults and name calling
4. Panic (2-4 weeks away).
Au contraire
August 13, 2009 - 19:05 ET by slickwillie2001I've been very impressed by those at the townhalls that are opposed to Obamacare. They appear to be more familiar with HR3200 than most House Reps are, and certainly more on the ball than the liberal media is. There's also a marked contrast between the anti-Obamacare protesters and the pro-Obamacare protesters. I expect this because the SSEIU goons for instance have simply been sent there by someone in a higher position, and there's no way on Earth that they have done the research. How often do people actually download a House or Senate bill and actually read it? Do you know what a rare thing this is?
PS Anyone seen download numbers on HR3200?
PPS Re BOR; someone as dumb as BOR is not qualified to measure the 'brilliance' of the Bamster, or anyone smarter than he is. That's just the way judgement works.
The Old Tricks Won't Work On This Deal
August 13, 2009 - 23:01 ET by rammingspeedThey fall back on the old insults that work with less emotional issues. Now, when it's a watershed deal, that garbage doesn't work. This gives the libs another thing to deflect, the dumb accusations against people who are more well informed about Obama's health care plan than the town hall hosts themselves. Ad hominem attacks never hold up. Obama & Co. are on the fast track to lame duck status.
I'm sure lots of
August 13, 2009 - 23:50 ET by RR GOPI'm sure lots of Conservatives who own birds and buy fresh fish know what to do with the Times...far from ignorant.
One of the 34% who thinks George W. Bush was a great President. One of the 86% who wants to bring back the stock and pillory.
Why the Left is winning
August 15, 2009 - 08:11 ET by BlueCat57The Left is winning the debate because they are willing to use communication techniques like using "inflammatory" words.
Sarah Palin knows how to communicate and get people excited about an issue.
If she had simply said "the bill includes end-of-life counseling" no one would care or remember.
By calling them "Death Panels" she instantly communicates their purpose and creates a memorable and motivating issue.
I listen to Schnitt and he spent half his show saying "I'm not calling them Death Panels." No wonder he's a second tier host. Never apologize. Your friends don't need it, and your enemies won't accept it.
If we are going to defeat the Left then we need to excite and motivate people to act on their beliefs.
Palin used the simple technique of using a word she knows most people will misinterpret. When we hear "death" in this context we assume that the panels are designed to speed it up. In fact, the panels are merely designed to counsel people on end-of-life issues.
What occurs at the "end-of-life"? Death. Simply the brilliant use of synonyms.