Anti-Bush 9-11 "Truthers" get a fair hearing from the New York Times, but anti-Obama "Birthers" are harshly criticized, and Rush Limbaugh is of course to blame.
Media reporter Brian Stelter's Saturday Business story, "A Dispute Over Obama's Birth Lives On in the Media," questioned those questioning Obama's birth certificate, his citizenship, and his resulting eligibility for the presidency. Good for the Times. But where is the Times's critcism when liberals gin up wackier conspiracy theories?
Back in June 2006, Times reporter Alan Feuer showed far more respect to a conspiracy theory many times more incendiary and implausible: That the 9-11 attacks were an inside job, that the controlled demolition of the World Trade Center towers and the Pentagon were engineered by President Bush. Yet not once did Feuer dismiss the 9-11 Truthers bizarre charge as a "conspiracy theory," as Stelter did in the first line of his Sunday piece on the Birthers:
The conspiracy theorists who have claimed for more than a year that President Obama is not a United States citizen have found receptive ears among some mainstream media figures in recent weeks.
Despite ample evidence to the contrary, the country's most popular talk radio host, Rush Limbaugh, told his listeners on Tuesday that Mr. Obama "has yet to have to prove that he's a citizen." Lou Dobbs of CNN said that Mr. Obama should do more to dispel the claims. Larry King, also of CNN, asked guests about it. Chris Matthews debated it with guests on MSNBC, and "NBC Nightly News" even did a segment debunking the theory.
Cable news is often stretched for news in the summer, but the birth certificate case has been fueled by the combustible combination of luck, compelling video, media-savvy doubters -- and an outlandish topic.
By contrast, Feuer in 2006 treated the left-wing nuts with something approaching affection:
"[Group press director Michael] Berger, 40, is typical of 9/11 Truthers -- a group that, in its rank and file, includes professors, chain-saw operators, mothers, engineers, activists, used-book sellers, pizza deliverymen, college students, a former fringe candidate for United States Senate and a long-haired fellow named hummux (pronounced who-mook) who, on and off, lived in a cave for 15 years."
The text box to Stelter's piece marked a familiar Times foe: "Rush Limbaugh? Of course, but even Larry King has asked guests about a fringe belief."
Once again, Limbaugh is being used by the media as a stand-in for all of conservative talk radio, from the mainstream to the fringes. Limbaugh did hint at the issue briefly and facetiously in recent show patter, but the issue does not feature as a regular drumbeat on his broadcast.
Stelter called out "staunchly conservative elements" pushing the Obama birth story, and used a left-wing media watchdog source to back him up.
The theory that Mr. Obama was born in Kenya, his father's homeland, first took root among some staunchly conservative elements. In response, the Obama campaign scanned the candidate's "certification of live birth" from Hawaii's department of health and published it on the Internet. Numerous third parties have examined and confirmed the birth certificate and concluded that it met the requirements for citizenship.
"This smear was thoroughly debunked during the election," said Eric Burns, the president of Media Matters for America, a liberal media monitoring organization.
MRC's Brent Baker remembered MSNBC host Keith Olbermann's paranoia about alleged Ohio ballot-box fraud, after President George W. Bush beat John Kerry in 2004, with the state of Ohio putting Bush over the top. Olbermann jumped on some minor anomalies to suggest Ohio voting machines had been manipulated to deny Kerry victory in Ohio, which would have awarded him the presidency. A Nexis search indicates the Times never mentioned Olbermann's Ohio obsession.
—Clay Waters is the director of Times Watch, an MRC project tracking the New York Times.
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
unlike the 911 truthers,
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 14:32 ET by dscottunlike the 911 truthers, the birth certificate issue is easily resolved, SHOW the LONG FORM and STOP USING LEGAL MANUVERS to BLOCK RECORDS CHECKS.
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
dscott... Bingo! It is
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 14:47 ET by bigtimerdscott...
Bingo!
It is as simple as that.
I read a lot of other right/conservative blogs yesterday evening...and this subject is number one with the number of post responders.
Lou Dobbs is talking about it right now as an aside to a congress-critter (Shula?) from the left about health care at the end of their discussion before taking calls.
This subject is not going away.
Speaking of Dobbs...have you seen this?
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
@bigtimer:
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 15:09 ET by j. frank wilsonThe Wing Nut Daily article you cited states:
"...though congressional hearings were held to determine whether Sen. John McCain was constitutionally eligible to be president as a 'natural born citizen...'"
Congressional Hearings were held? Really? Does WND have any information on when those took place? I'd sure like to read the transcript.
Did the NYT cover Phillip Berg? They could have had a 9/11 Truthier and a Birthier two'fer.
BT.. just for the record,
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 16:22 ET by celatorBT.. just for the record, here is the Presidential Executive Order Obama used to block all access to his records. He signed it Jan 21, 2008!
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/ExecutiveOrderPresidentialRec...
I do believe his Kenyan birth (according to Kenyan newspapers and his own grandmother) is leading to a Constitutional crisis that will cause him to leave office. But who knows?
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
@celator:
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 18:03 ET by j. frank wilsonAccording to GeeGee Liddy it was Mr. Obama's "step-grandmother." And that entire story has been completely discredited.
frankie... Do you have a
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 18:08 ET by bigtimerfrankie...
Do you have a credible link to this discredited story?
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
bt,
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 21:38 ET by R D HelmLOL-Of course he doesn't.
Hell, Frankie doesn't even have a credible link to his own brain.
-Dave
Funny he all clammed up
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 22:20 ET by bigtimerFunny he all clammed up after I posted that Dave.
He'll be back, he's propbably creating his own link.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
bt,
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 22:39 ET by R D HelmLOL-Yeah, after he removes that miss located wire from his left foot and inserts it in his ass, thus restoring his credible link to his brain.
-Dave
BT,We've already
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 07:43 ET by CacciatoBT,
We've already discussed this. You simply chose to ignore the reality of the situation. I still can't believe that you are a Birther! This one single issue could discredit the entire Newsbusters site.
Liddy is an utter joke and I find it hilarious that he's all of the sudden become a credible source.
Liddy claims that Obama is an illegal alien based on a 'sworn statement' by Obama's so-called step-grandmother.
Ok, ok so let's say that we find her more credible than pictures of Obama's birth certificate, factcheck.org, the Hawaii governor, the Hawaii director of health, etc. etc. etc.
Ok, let's say that you are actually going to elevate her above everyone to make an outrageous claim ala Liddy.
Fair enough. Too bad his ONLY evidence is based on a WRONG tranlsation! Ha. You Birthers are sooooo desperate.
LIDDY's CLAIM:
"You've got a deposition, which is a sworn statement, from the step-grandmother, who says, 'I was present and saw him born in Mombasa, Kenya.'"
REALITY:
"What Liddy was referring to is actually an affidavit filed by a street preacher named Ron McRae, who conducted an interview with Sarah Obama, the second wife of President Obama's grandfather, through a translator. (Sarah Obama is not the president's biological grandmother, but he calls her "Granny Sarah.") In that interview, Sarah Obama does in fact say at one point that she was there for her grandson's birth. But that was a mistake, a confusion in translation. As soon as a jubilant McRae began to press her for further details about her grandson being born in Kenya, the family realized the mistake and corrected him. And corrected him. And corrected him. (The audio is available for download here.)
LINK
So Liddy is full of garbage. Debunked thoroughly. Now what?
What's the next angle for you tin foil hat wearing nuts?
The Birther movement (much like the Palin worship) is just another sign of the right moving closer to the fringe.
You guys really can't be serious with this. 6 months in and already you've totally lost control.
PS this story is almost a week old and you're still pretending Obama's step-grandmother is evidence of his foreign birth...so silly!
Cacciato...
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 10:46 ET by Georgia GirlCorrection:
Six months in and Obama has lost control. Thank God.
Americans have begun to pry his hands off the socialist-driven wheel.
Double G, Since you only
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 12:16 ET by CacciatoDouble G,
Since you only commented on the end of my post, I'll take that to mean you agree with me that BT's and the NB's incessant claim that Obama's grandmother said he was born in Kenya has been thoroughly debunked and should no longer be cited as valid evidence.
Great. We agree!
On to the next wild and outrageous Birther claim!
Cacciato~
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 13:13 ET by Georgia GirlOh, goody! Since you didn't comment on my saying Obama has lost control & his agenda is socialism, I take it that you agree with me on that. Thank you so much for that admission! That was really big of you. Aw, sweet. All of us conservatives appreciate your honesty.
Giggle.
P.S. My opinion on the birth business? Well, are human beings capable of lying, cheating and stealing? Yep. So what stops people from engaging in such behaviors? Sometimes fear. But ideally, it's character and integrity. So how some feel about this birth issue will depend somewhat on how they feel about Obama's character and his track record on honesty and transparency. Is it possible he is not a U.S. citizen? Sure. Do I think they will find any concrete evidence on this matter? Not likely. Do I think he is guilty of doing something to fudge citizenship? I have no idea. But I don't like his character.
Leon
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 13:20 ET by MrShyThat was one of the most sensible, level-headed posts I've ever read, above by Georgia Girl. It's spot-on.
Obama's character is..... well..... the guy HAS none. It's revolting, really.
He's thrown so many people under the bus, including his own seemingly good mother -- who raised him, and not the Kenyan womanizer who abandoned them both -- and his own 20-plus year-long racist pastor. Those are just the two most glaring and unthinkable examples. Also notice how one was a good person, one a bad person. For Obama, it didn't matter. He has no core, the man, and is a pure, programmed politician at the highest level. It doesn't take a genius, then, to see why we have our concerns about his honesty and integrity regarding his BC.
Get a clue, Leon.
OK, Cacciato...tell me how
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 13:05 ET by DJEddleOK, Cacciato...tell me how you'd answer this question:
How can a man born a British citizen via his father's citizenship be a "natural born citizen"? (And by the way - place of birth has nothing to do with this specific transfer of citizenship status.)
If you can rationally explain such a concept without resorting to ridicule and flawed interpretations of irrelevant laws, then I'd love to hear it. If you need help with constitutional law and United States citizenship, please visit my website below. I've written several articles on this particular subject.
Rational Liberty: Where Reason and Government Collide - The best website ever!
@bigtimer:
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 17:52 ET by j. frank wilsonYou're asking me for a link to a discredited story? What is the purpose if it has already been discredited?
And - isn't GeeGee Liddy's version enough? Wouldn't you take the word of a step-grandmother over that of the Governor of the State and the person in charge of public records (who is sick to death of being asked the same durn question over and over and over and over - so finally another press release came out, repeating what was said in October 2008)?
I posted this elsewhere: I think the "Red Dress Lady" at Rep. Cassidy's Town Hall Meeting summed it up quite well: "Why are you people ignoring his birth certificate?"
What kind of records like a
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 19:44 ET by Dan The Man 2What kind of records like a BC have other Presidents blocked. Duh One has some splainin ta do. Ok all you out there why would Duh One block his BC if he knew there was controversy. When McCain BC and citizenship came up he cleared it up. All of the Republicans records were there for inspection. Can you imagine what a stink there would be if a Republican did this??
Something is wrong in Silver City.
@Dan The Man 2:
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 09:45 ET by j. frank wilson"What kind of records like a BC have other Presidents blocked?"
How about George Bush's final DD-214? And other records of his military service.
You claim "When McCain BC and citizenship came up he cleared it up."
Nope. It was done for him by his friends in the United States Senate.
Who cares who did it? It was done.
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 09:58 ET by SickofLibsPlus Obama has the whole vast MSM chomping at the bit to "leak" anything favorable at a moment's notice.
But thanks for the reminder that the Obama campaign also had it's own crazy birther squad.
@SickofLibs:
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 12:08 ET by j. frank wilson"Who cares who did it?" Only people concerned with the truth of the matter.
As I recall it, it was the far right wing fringe of the GOP who questioned Mr. McCain's status as a "natural born citizen" - not the Obama campaign. Just as it was right wing nutz who questioned his conduct as a POW.
However, if you have some evidence to back up your wild claim, let's see it. Along with the Wing Nut Daily claim that "congressional hearings" were held on the matter...
OK, Frank, you're getting mixed up here
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 12:36 ET by SickofLibsOK, Frank, you're getting mixed up here: "the truth of the matter" is about why Obama won't release ALL his records as McCain did... not who requested them.
I'm not going to expend energy plodding thru Kos, Huff, MSNBC transcripts etc to find the demands for McCain to prove his citizenship that we both know are there. So let's ignore my comment that the Obama campaign had anything to do with questioning McCain.
So the bottom line remains - McCain's full records were released, Obama's have not.
I suppose the Obama campaign also had nothing whatsoever to do with the massive horde of private eyes and lawyers who descended on Wasilla, right?
Oops, Frank was a McCain birther
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 12:47 ET by SickofLibsOne addition: not for nothing, but you questioned McCain's eligibility yourself on Feb 28, 2008. See JWFs post at bottom.
ROLFLMAO
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 10:56 ET by spmcintyreBUSTED
@SoL (indeed!):
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 12:48 ET by j. frank wilsonI never "questioned McCain's eligibility." If for no other reason than his military service, I believe Mr. McCain is perfectly eligible to be President of the United States.
I was pointing out another folly by the Bush Administration(s).
Celator~
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 22:09 ET by Georgia GirlWell, that would just be too fabulous for words. I wish, I wish, I wish!
This whole thing angers me -- the MSM is and was a big wasteland. It's just another example how they found out/investigated absolutely NOTHING about this man before he was elected. I believe that as they slobbered all over him, they purposefully ignored their job (at best) and looked away or covered up (at worst). There is so much stuff about Obama that is fishy and flimsy. Just the fact he blocked all his college records is odd.
Seems to me that Obama spends a lot of time trying to erase and evade who he really is.
GeorgiaGirl...when the
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 23:05 ET by celatorGeorgiaGirl...when the history of this very strange political era in the US is written, and it will be, there will be an entire chapter (probably more) written about the role of mass media in the political coup we are now witnessing before our very eyes.
That history will explain clearly how the press, by refusing to vet Obama, played a vital role in his election. It will talk about mass media's backroom deals, bribes, offshore bank accounts, and collusion with the worse enemies of our country.
It will closely analyse the enabling role mass media played in Obama's attempt to turn this Republic upsidedown and transform it into an insane tyranny.
The history written will describe--by name-- reporters, editors, publishers, media mogules who, when they turned their backs on the American people, and the US Constitution, paved the way, indeed laid out a red carpet, for Obama and his masters to fill their pockets with our hard-earned treasure, and their dark hearts with stolen power.
In the end, we will win, but there will be a lot of pain in the process.
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
Hey C...
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 18:24 ET by mvfreemanYou do realize that executive order restores the wording of the original executive order written by President Ronald Reagan...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Records_Act#Amendments
Futhermore, it doesn't apply to his birth certificate...
(2) The term "Presidential records" means documentary materials, or any reasonably segregable portion thereof, created or received by the President, his immediate staff, or a unit or individual of the Executive Office of the President whose function is to advise and assist the President, in the course of conducting activities which relate to or have an effect upon the carrying out of the constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President. Such term--
(A) includes any documentary materials relating to the political activities of the President or members of his staff, but only if such activities relate to or have a direct effect upon the carrying out of constitutional, statutory, or other official or ceremonial duties of the President; but
(B) does not include any documentary materials that are (i) official records of an agency (as defined in section 552(e) of title 5, United States Code; (ii) personal records; (iii) stocks of publications and stationery; or (iv) extra copies of documents produced only for convenience of reference, when such copies are clearly so identified.
And then there's this little tidbit...
The Presidential Records Act (PRA) of 1978, 44 U.S.C. § 2201–2207, governs the official records of Presidents and Vice Presidents created or received after January 20, 1981
So again, it would not affect his birth certificate.
Even NRO is saying let it go...
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 12:44 ET by mvfreemanhttp://article.nationalreview.com/?q=ZTRjMTFhMzQxYmEzNjA2YWIwOTU4YWVjNzRmODE2NTI=
Via Hot Air.
Maybe he just learned his
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 14:42 ET by bedmondsonMaybe he just learned his lesson from the previous truthers report? I guess the only way to find out out would be for him to report on another liberal conspiracy like the one where the fiscal and moral conservative Sanford flew around in first class using tax dollars and see if he spins it. (answer - he will)
Also, I wonder what the truthers over at infowars would appreciate being smeared as a liberal.
Instead of
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 14:44 ET by jessieHInstead of badmouthing the people & Rush, how about finding out what obama is hiding from us? Why are his records sealed. If anyone can tell the people why they are sealed, then it will be stopped. I challenge all journalists to find this out. The one that does will go down in history. The others can just go.
"Despite ample evidence to
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 15:02 ET by Jerry"Despite ample evidence to the contrary..."
A statement like this is normally followed by examples of the "ample" evidence. I can see it now... "Despite ample evidence to the contrary, such as this poster at Daily KOS who said... Obama is a citizen and Bush is a stinky doo doo head".
When asked if he went to war with Iraq to derail the impeachment vote: “I don’t think any serious person would believe that any President would do such a thing." - President Clinton (Dec 1998).
Clay Waters,
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 15:13 ET by bigtimerClay Waters, good-afternoon...
...speaking of this subject, Steve Malzberg is playing this now, Dobbs mentioned it before Steve followed, this is Bill Press asking the question to Gibbs today.
edit-Malzberg is interviewing Joseph Farrah, head of WND...it has been very interesting indeed.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
Michael Medved is an
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 15:19 ET by nolotrippenMichael Medved is an anti-birther. So is Ann Coulter. These are people I respect. But to both of them I say, why does it make people who want to see an official document "idiots"?
Ya, I want to see MJ's
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 15:38 ET by bedmondsonYa, I want to see MJ's official death certificate before I really know he is dead b/c the liberal media, government, and family could all be lying just like they are with Barry.
I Respect Everyone. . .
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 15:39 ET by JustAlbut anyone can loose it, and Medved did by bad mouthing Ron Paul and all things Libertarian during the campaign. I don't recall if Ann did the same but with gams like hers I can over look a lot.
For too long the conservative media have been nothing more than propagandists for the GOP, just like the MSM is for the Dems.
The birth certificate issue is a very basic, very simple, and Constitutionally very important thing to be discussed and resolved, not ridiculed and covered up.
Look, I personally hope he can and does produce a certified long form birth certificate and that the delivering doctor gets a prime time special with Oprah. Because, if he is proven to be a userper he gets to simply walk away from the mess he's made and we get stuck with a Bozo who can not even read the teleprompter.
The reason he is hiding that and his transcripts could simply be that he claimed (or admitted) to being an Indonesian (or Kenyan) citizen to get into Harvard, could be. Of course if he is really as brilliant as everyone says it must be his sense of humility that prevents his showing off his transcript as any job applicant would have to.
"" Michael Medved is an
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 16:20 ET by ckc1227"" Michael Medved is an anti-birther."
Medved believes in bigfoot. He readily accepts the same type of annecdotal evidence when it comes to bigfoot that he loudly rejects when it comes to birthers.
something has happened
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 18:54 ET by WesenSomething has happened to Medved. He's become more opinionated in subtle ways that don't bode well. There used to be a element of innocent inquiry and suspension of judgement but thats given way to a hardening of opinion.
It's definately a sign of the first stage. I'm not sure he can be helped.
Hey guys he was born in the U.S.
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 15:28 ET by DEHIIIlet it go. The American Spectator even said there was ZERO truth to this stupid and wacko conspiracy theory.
Instead of taking the President to task on the cap and trade that will wreck our economy, or this whole take over on health care which will take away choice and further wreck our budget, some of you want to talk about Obama's birth certificate.
Give it the hell up. He was born in the U.S. and he won the election fair and square. Lets move on and work on 2010 and 2012.
What's funny is that now
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 15:38 ET by goldbarWhat's funny is that now that the birthers have lost the birth certificate argument, they're are questioning whether or not Hawaii is really part of the United States. Real intelligent people these birthers.
Lou Dobbs will be lucky if CNN doesn't fire him, because he's lost whatever credibility he's had by giving these malcontents a forum.
Don't make fun of this
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 15:39 ET by bedmondsonDon't make fun of this website's fan base please!
that's just a bogus
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 15:50 ET by dscottthat's just a bogus distraction as McCain being born in the Panama Canal Zone, a US Territory at the time of his birth, making him a natural born citizen. If Obama was born in Hawaii prior to it's becoming a state, it's likewise not an issue since it was a US Territory.
Why is Obama spending hundreds of thousands of dollars preventing people from inspecting his long form birth certificate and education records? He is giving the appearance of impropriety which could easily be dispelled. His concerted effort to withhold the information is a lawyerly attempt to hide something, but what? Furthermore, WE the People are entitled to know this information to confirm his credibility. His life is public record as a politician doing the People's business. We have a right to transparency on these issues as we have a right to examin, question and challenge any conflict of interest.
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
What is the name of the doctor that smacked your butt?
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 16:20 ET by JWFI am a birther now. Anything that drives the partisan trolls straight up the wall with rightious indignation.
Say, I have an impersonation. Who am I?
Sniff. Sniff. We lost Lou Dobbs! He joined the malcontents.
Am I goldbar? Nah. Just another whining internet turd troll coming here to stir up the cistern.
Ah-hah! Gotcha. I was goldbar the whining internet turd troll coming here to stir up the cistern.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
The birther movement is
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 16:32 ET by goldbarThe birther movement is great as far as the democrats are concerned, because it is effectively destroying what's left of the republican party. When you the American Spectator going against your grain, you know you're on the wrong side of the issue. Keep up the good fight, though! Makes things all that much easier for the democrats come election time.
@goldbar:
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 17:12 ET by j. frank wilsonI certainly understand this point and view, and it is a tempting position to take.
The problem is our Nation needs to address a tremendous number of very serious problems. And we need to all work together to get this job done.
Now, at this point we're not getting much constructive assistance from the party of the Abominable No Men who can obstruct but can't participate in a constructive manner.
But then, these are the same people who had control of the US House and Senate for years, and their idea of solving the health care mess was to pass a law that poor Terry Shavio was still alive.
Yes, let's all come together, except for...
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 17:29 ET by SickofLibsHow about you have a meeting with Pelosi, and ask her why she refuses any "constructive assistance"?
I Agree Frank
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 17:36 ET by JustAlWe have serious issues, number one of which is the federal government's usurpation of powers it does not have the right to.
If you really think US health care is a "mess", why don't you just go to Cuba for treatment?????
By the way, since 1945 there have been 32 Congresses, the Republicans have only controlled the House for 7 of those, the Senate for 10, simultaneously only 5 times. So, with 6X the amount of time in charge one would think the Democrats would have solved all of our problems, right?
@JustAl:
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 18:00 ET by j. frank wilsonRegarding "...the federal government's usurpation of powers it does not have the right to" under the Bush Administrations we had the Federal government tell the states how to issue drivers' licenses, attempt to regulate marriage, push through "tort reform" (with today the right wingnutz on the radio screaming about the need for more of that).
These were all matters the states have handled just fine for quite some time.
Then's there's George Bush's election - when the rules for voting in the State of Florida were appealed to the US Supreme Court. That was a first. And the Court ruled its decision could not be used as a precedent? Bizarre.
And the conservatives didn't like the Kelo decision - another state's rights issue.
Frankie Frankie Frankie,
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 19:35 ET by Dan The Man 2Frankie Frankie Frankie, are you serious? You know that marriage is a problem because of teh full faith clause betwen states. So a stupid state like Mass has two homos "married" and they move to Texas (too bad we cant just shoot em) and try to say they have marrige rights. Drivers license was an attempt for a positive ID so the authorities can ID people like you before teh border patrol shoots you.
Troll on Dude
Dan Dan Dan...
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 20:36 ET by MrShyWhat's this about shooting gays? I haven't read this whole thread, so maybe I'm missing the context, as some referenced joke or something... but, um, still.... huh ???
No, Im just being dumb. Im
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 21:08 ET by Dan The Man 2No, Im just being dumb. Im sick and when I read this pap of Frankie's I get pissed. Pretty much anything can come out of my head now.
Dan, LOL-Yeah, its called Troll Derangement Syndrome (TDS)
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 21:28 ET by R D HelmI have had it since the Usenet days, and it is the sole reason why I am not who I used to be here at NB, way back in the early days, IYKWIM.
But, a'hem, I can't really talk about that. :-^)
-Dave
@Dan The Man 2:
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 17:07 ET by j. frank wilsonI was pointing out several areas of the law that have traditionally been left up to the states that the Bush admnistration decided should be under the control of the Federal government.
Texas, as I recall, had a law that made sodomy between two people of the same sex illegal but not between two people of the opposite sex.
That's certainly keeping the government out of the bedroom and other aspects of our private lives isn't it?
As for your "joke," another poster correctly pointed out it is in remarkably poor taste. And not the least bit funny.
"What's Left of the Republican Party"
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 17:26 ET by JustAlWell, actually now that I type it, there isn't much that is "left" of the Republican party. And today's Republican party needs to be destroyed because time after time it has betrayed conservative principles for political expediency or playing the big shot on the world stage.
Do not forget that the it was Reagan who owned the first amnesty and like both Bushs who followed him continued to grow government.
The Republican party of today is nothing more than a shadow of the Democrats, their rallying cry is "we're not quiet as bad."
Once the conservatives and libertarians have a party we can call our own we will see just how easy it is for the democrats.
DE... I think we all can
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 15:47 ET by bigtimerDE...
I think we all can handle all categories you are talking about taking care of just fine, it isn't just a one issue situation.
Obama spending a million bucks on this alone should say something right there...I don't know if he was or wasn't, I also know he is going to remain Prez, what I care about is the truth being out there once and for all for the future Pres. candidates, let alone other members of congress we pay...to me this is something that just can't be swept under the rug...and a dangerous eligibility requirement not to be ignored in the future.
Nancy Pelosi is the person who signed off on his eligibility to begin with, I did not know that until a few minutes ago according to Farrah's info. what I do know is Pelosi, Obama and Soros go waaaay back, and I do mean way back.
That right there is enough for me to raise an eyebrow...I have a link to their ties, if you want to read it all...I've had it for months.
I am working for '10 and '12...with all I can, doesn't mean I don't care about this issue...nor do I care what everyone else says, no matter how much I like them, we all have the right to form our own opinions, with our own research...which I have always done...and always will.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
Point me to a credible
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 16:02 ET by goldbarPoint me to a credible non-partisan site that is declaring Obama is "spending a million bucks" trying to cover up the truth about his birthplace. And don't give any rhetoric about the left-wing media.
Point us to a credible,
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 16:31 ET by ckc1227Point us to a credible, non-partisan site that has released his long form birth certificate.
ckc... Hear,
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 16:33 ET by bigtimerckc...
Hear, Hear!
Wished I would have thought of that. ;-)
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
With the name of the doctor that smacked his butt.
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 16:43 ET by JWFgoldbar won't give it up.
Let's see your longform
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 16:49 ET by goldbarLet's see your longform birth certificate. I don't have one, none of my kids have one, none of my friends have one. The state doesn't issue a 'longform' here.
Sniff. Sniff. The hospital gave one to my mother.
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 16:52 ET by JWFAnd the footprints are a little faded but they are there. Sniff. Sniff.
Sniff. Sniff. I don't have one, none of my kids have one, none of my friends have one. The state doesn't issue a 'longform' here. Sniff. Sniff.
Sounds like a personal problem to me.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
I hate to break it to but
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 17:22 ET by goldbarI hate to break it to but hospitals don't issue birth certificates. States do.
The State certifies it
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 17:45 ET by general companyThe hospital issues it. Look I am not calling for a recall, but I sure would like to know to what capacity he entered Harvard, or the school in Indonesia. What he studied and his grades. These are legitimate questions that should had been asked during the campaign, especially since the msm held McCains in question. The fact that folks want answers to these questions does not make them loons, it makes them diligent, something our media has no use for.
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Just release the damn thing to SHUT PEOPLE UP!
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 22:48 ET by Unsaneplumbumbar, you amuse me constantly...by carrying the water for His Majesty The Shahinshah and other Socialists you are in hock to, and by entering NB as if you are the smartest human being in the world (all Leftists seem to behave as if they are God's gift to intellect and debate) all the while demonstrating your ignorance.
The State did not know I was born until quite sometime later...you see, since I was born at a hospital like so many others, they issued it, and then a copy wound up with the county in which I was born, where it is a matter of record.
Oh, and I can grab my birth certificate at any moment, as my copy is under lock and key in a fireproof box. Both my home county and the State Department have copies on file.
I have little patience for Conspiros, so therefore I would greatly appreciate it if His Majesty The Shahinshah released his stupid birth certificate just to shut them up. If He does it, and it destroys the Conspiros' case, then I will back Him here and elsewhere, for I hate conspiracy theories.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
I smell a rat
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 17:03 ET by general companyAssuming they are under 30. Do your kids have a SS number? Do you know the hospital where they were born? 2 maybe 3 phone calls could secure it.
Interesting, are there holes here?
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
"Let's see your longform
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 17:32 ET by ckc1227"Let's see your longform birth certificate."
I'll make you a deal....when I get elected president of the United States, I'll release it to the public should there be any brewing controversy over my birth status.
gb... I have one, my
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 17:38 ET by bigtimergb...
I have one, my husband does, all of our kids do, from different states, and both previous marriages too...and these kids were born after O was.
Golly gee...go figure.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
and which State are you in?
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 18:24 ET by Kekela WardI was born in Hawaii in 1959, and the same system used at that time was used in 1961 when Obama was born. I have my long form Certificate of Live Birth. It includes my mom and dad's occupations, their places of birth and the name and signature of the doctor that delivered me. The location of my birth (Kapiolani Hospital) is also on the form. It also has the embossed seal of the State Department of Health.
This is what it looks like (of course, this is someone else's certificate, but you get the gist).
http://www.wnd.com/images/misc/longform.jpg
I don't know what state you live in, but we were able to get the long form in Hawaii.
Most of my friends who were born in Hawaii have a long form in their possession. I know it's important to me, because my parents gave it to me.
Hawaii became a State two months before I was born and it says "State of Hawaii" on the top left hand corner of the certificate, which made it special to my parents...they were very proud to be Americans (of course, now my parents certificates, which say "Territory of Hawaii", are much more valuable).
Perhaps that was why so many of us who were born during that period have long forms in our possession.
Sam: "I hurt somebody's feelings once"
My son was born in
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 19:29 ET by dscottMy son was born in Kapiolani Hospital in the 80s, his COLB has all the info including the hospital and doctor.
Oh BTW, Obama claims on Whitehouse stationery that he was born at Kapiolani, problem was it wasn't built until 1976 and it wasn't called Kapiolani before then. It was called Kauikeolani Childrens Center. So Obama needs to calibrate his response again because otherwise more people will be on to him.
By the way, Emma Kauikeolani and Queen Kapiolani were two different people.
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
Has anyone thought that
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 14:27 ET by bedmondsonHas anyone thought that maybe he doesn't want people backing down on this? It is perfect political ammo for an election. If this persists he will be able to go to the American people during his relection campaign and say, "Hey, if you vote against me look what at what kind of loony tunes your hanging out with." The Republicans are dousing themselves in gasoline and Obama has the match.
Some have speculated that
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 14:55 ET by dscottSome have speculated that this might be his motive. However, if that is his purpose he is playing with fire just like Sadam Hussein did when he deceived the world into believing he had more WMD than he did in order to keep the Iranians of balance. Look how that turned out.
No, the only one dousing themselves with gasoline is Obama by refusing a ligitimate request for transparency. His reasons maybe more parochial for not releasing his long form BC, we can only speculate what those reasons might be. Maybe Ann Dunham decided to not name the real father on the BC, which would mean under Father would be "unknown"? Maybe she got pregnant by another man then hooked up with Sotero? In which case Obama when he wrote "Dreams of My Father" which was full of literary license (nice way saying he lied), added another "fake but true story" to his biography. That in itself would be an embarrassment to him personally. If that was the case, I feel for the guy being denied a balanced family life, however, that doesn't justify full throated lying by writing a fictional biography about himself. No one likes a liar and such a revelation would destroy any credibility he has left.
I don't know why Obama is hidig his long form BC, but as an American citizen who has to produce a BC to get a drivers license, a passport, or Social Security card I expect a public figure to pony up when it comes to public office. It's called Transparency. I don't want anybody in power who believes they can keep secrets that may present a conflict of interest making them susceptable to blackmail/extortion demands. Once the secret is out, that ends any undo influence over them. This same idea is used for all sensitive positions involving money and national security.
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
That is an interesting idea
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 15:17 ET by bedmondsonThat is an interesting idea but I guess I don't see the where you are coming from. The short form that was released has the father's name on it and according to factcheck it is a perfectly legal document that can be used to get a passport. Anyways this is the first time I heard speculation of this, does the media have it wrong and the Republicans are just trying to get more dirt on him?
Either way I agree with you on the transparency thing. He probably could talk to the Hawaii government and get a copy of the original if he really wanted to. But I think if we were honest here most of these people would still not be satisfied because they question the authenticity of the first document why whould they not the 2nd?
The 2nd document as you
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 16:15 ET by dscottThe 2nd document as you characterize it, is the ORIGINAL document which has all info on it. What's the harm in producing this document? It would be so easy to dispell most of the issues just with this document. you are right that the second set of issues would still be in play, namely traveling under Indonesian passport.
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
Re Born in Hawaii
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 19:29 ET by slickwillie2001Good information, thanks. Now since you have standing, do you know if that 'long form' is still available from Hawaii? Some claim that 'since Hawaii went totally electronic, long forms are no longer available.' I don't see how that can be since the long form is proof of some things that the short form is not proof of.
If you needed to replace it, could that be done?
@ckc1227:
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 17:21 ET by j. frank wilsonYou make a great point!
It is clearly a matter of national security how much Mr. Obama weighed and how long he was (in inches) when he was born!
Of course, the US State Department doesn't care if he wanted a passport. Some NB'ers have tried to claim he couldn't get a Louisiana Driver's License (WTF?) - but that's not true.
Just what difference does it make? None whatsoever.
Mr. Obama won. And if anyone wants to contest that they're going to have to come up with the proof. He doesn't have to come up with anything. He's the President.
Translation: I can't.
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 17:28 ET by ckc1227Translation: I can't.
"Just what difference does it make? None whatsoever."
Apparently it makes a difference to Obama. I'm curious why.
Your wrong JFW,
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 17:32 ET by general companySome NB'ers have tried to claim he couldn't get a Louisiana
Driver's License (WTF?) - but that's not true.
Is true, your wrong. Come and get one see how far you get without a BC and a SS card.
Mr. Obama won. And if anyone wants to contest that they're going to
have to come up with the proof. He doesn't have to come up with
anything. He's the President.
Really a stunningly stupid comment, even from you!
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
J. Frank "Mr. Obama
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 20:05 ET by NL207J. Frank
"Mr. Obama won"
I don't think I've seen you demonstrate such ignorance in quite a while. Watching you defend this snake, Obama, is quite entertaining.
The Constitution says the President must be a 'natural born citizen' of the United States. It does not matter what vote total Obama received. It could have been unanimous and still not matter. If Obama is not a natural born citizen of the United States, then he cannot be President regardless of who voted for him.
I think Obama is a citizen of Indonesia as a consequence of marriage of his mother to Lolo Soetoro and adoption thereafter.
"Section 349 of the INA [8 USC § 1481] specifies several conditions under which US citizenship may be lost. These include:
Now, recall that Obama has kept his Academic records at Occidental, Columbia and Harvard all sealed. What do you suppose is in those records that he wants to remain unseen? Do you think it could be a claim of citizenship other than US after his 18th Birthday?
If Obama is on the level, why doesn't he just make these records public? Where are his promises of transparency? Obama is a liar any way you cut it.
@the Shahinshah worshipper
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 23:00 ET by UnsaneMr. Obama won. And if anyone wants to contest that they're going to have to come up with the proof. He doesn't have to come up with anything. He's the President. Yes, frankie. He's the President. He is not God, as much as you believe Him to be. Which means He is not above the law.
It amazes me that you can type these posts in His defense all the while plunging your tongue deeply into your icon of Him. That to me is a demonstration of your immense talent.
Tell you what - I hate Conspiros. They drive me batty. Do I buy this theory that somehow He is not really a citizen? No, but at the same time I cannot understand why His Majesty The Shahinshah just doesn't put forth His birth certificate that shows that the manger in which He was born was located in Hawaii. So, if He does this one little thing - to show my sincere gratitude to Him, I will go on a Conspiro-beating spree on His behalf. Sound good?
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
While a court may
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 23:38 ET by NL207While a court may eventually rule that according to the standard of the law, Obama is a natural born US citizen, I still think there is something in his record that will call his qualification to be President of the United States sufficiently into question to cripple his presidency while the courts deliberate the law.
@DEHill:
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 15:48 ET by j. frank wilsonYou make a great point. America has some serious issues right through here: The economy, two wars, health care reform, just for starters.
While you and I probably don't agree on what should be done about them, can we agree that we (that's all of us, right here, right now) need to be working on them?
So Obama is not capable of
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 08:47 ET by dscottSo Obama is not capable of releasing his BC and education information while advancing his agenda at the same time? Frank, you need to do better than that. Besides, we have all the time in the world since Obama's definition of bipartisan action is Nancy Pelosi dictating the terms of any House bill. We can make all the suggestions we want but none of them will be considered, so Frank what's the point in working together? The only problem we see is a recalcitrant liberal demagogue denying the obvious.
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
"won the election fair and square"
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 15:52 ET by jdlybrandMickey Mouse and a few dead people registered by ACORN may beg to differ with you on that one. But I agree, let's move on. It's easy enough to prove what an idiot he is.
"What a revoltin' development this is!"
Chester Riley
X
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 15:59 ET by serfer62And you know this how?...
I am about sick of being referred to as a "birther" by many...
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 16:20 ET by R D Helm...of my conservative friends simply because I question the citizenship of a man who, 4.5 years ago, no one had ever heard of, who has spent his entire life being influenced by people who hate freedom and liberty, and who rose to the highest office in the land literally overnight, and who was bankrolled most of the way by the deep coffers of George Soros, who hates this country with a flaming, purple passion.
Obama has spent $1 million to keep his actual BC hidden from view, along with other documents that may shed light as to his true origins
Why has he done this, if he has nothing to hide?
Those who say he has proven that he was born in Hawaii do not know what they are talking about.
Obama has proven no such thing. Not even close.
Nothing about this fraud of a POTUS has been real since day one. This man is a reflexive, pathological liar, AS IS JUST ABOUT EVERYBODY AROUND HIM.
Whu should I take him at his word on where he was born?
-Dave
@RD Helm:
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 16:25 ET by j. frank wilsongoldbar raised a good point. Where does the "$1 million" figure come from?
No one is asking you to "take him at his word" on where he was born. There is ample evidence (documents) readily available to address that question.
I would add to goldbar's question: Where is a reasonable (third-party) definition of a "long form" birth certificate? Where did all this horse pucky come from that a "Certificate of Live Birth" isn't proof enough for any reasonable person or legal purpose?
frankie, you and gb google
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 16:26 ET by bigtimerfrankie, you and gb google it yourselves, there are tons of links there, I just looked.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
http://freecharlotte.files.wo
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 16:40 ET by goldbarhttp://freecharlotte.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/birth_certificate_5.jpg
Note the raised seal. BTW, many states don't issue a longform.
Sniff. Sniff. Hospitals do.
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 16:45 ET by JWFWhat is the name of the doctor that smacked your butt goldbar?
"Don't stop, believing...."
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 16:53 ET by goldbar"Don't stop, believing...."
See. Straight up the wall. He is singing.
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 17:01 ET by JWFI am not really a birther. I just say I am one to mess up troll's minds.
What is the name of the doctor that smacked your butt goldbar?
Look out folks. Goldy's
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 17:31 ET by Roger the ShrubberLook out folks. Goldy's busting out his best Journey impersonization. What's next? Some Winger? Glass Tiger? Cats show tunes?
Portent
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 23:23 ET by UnsaneYou know, plumbumbar, that quote is quite an omen these days...
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
gb's doc
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 17:25 ET by misterbillMengele
misterbill,
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 21:47 ET by R D HelmLOL-you know, ol' Dr. Joe could have been Obama's doc, too.
After all, he was still very much alive back in '61.
Maybe THAT is what they are hiding. :-^)
-Dave
According to Federal
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 17:06 ET by R D HelmAccording to Federal Election Commission (FEC) records, Obama For America paid $688,316.42 to the Washington law firm Perkins Coie between January and March 2009.
http://query.nictusa.com/pres/2009/Q1/C00431445/B_PAYEE_C00431445.html
FEC's Obama For America 2009 April quarterly report, Obama's campaign also paid Perkins Coie for legal services between
Oct. 16, 2008 and Dec. 31, 2008, which cost them $378,375.52.
Robert Bauer of Perkins Coie is the exact same Washington attorney who has done much work for the DNC as well as [defending
President Obama in lawsuits filed challenging his eligibility to be president.]
This man is going to a lot of trouble to hide something. If not his place of birth, then what? Who his real father is?
Also, In 1961, if you were born in Sri Lanka, or anywhere else, then moved to Hawaii within one year, you could still get a COLB issued in the state of Hawaii:
http://logisticsmonster.com/2008/12/04/foreigners-become-a-us-citizen-ge...
That COLB the Obama people have been circulating isn't worth the paper it was printed on.
The Constitution clearly spells out requirements for POTUS that are higher than any other elected office in the land, and there is a reason for this.
I don't think it unreasonable that the American people see proof that their president meets those requirements.
-Dave
"This man is going to a lot
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 23:01 ET by NL207"This man is going to a lot of trouble to hide something. If not his place of birth, then what? Who his real father is? "
So you think like I do, that short, lumpy Barack Obama, Sr. could not possibly be the father of Barack Obama.
It is not sufficient that Obama be born a US citizen. He cannot also have taken actions which renounce his US Citizenship prior to assuming office. Ever wonder what he is hiding in his academic records? What might he have told the colleges many years ago that would reflect on this? His parentage? His nationality? What he considers to be his nationality?
Get the facts.
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 11:26 ET by wolfemanicFIRST Frank.....its the Certifi"cation" OLB , not the Certifi"cate" OLB that is not enough proof your born in Hawaii. The certifi"cation" is all Obozo has produced.
Its crap.....who says?
Its the FRIGGING state of Hawaii THEMSELVES who say its not good enough, and they posted that FACT for years on their state web site. Then....when it was discovered, they they took it down here in 09. But we archived it before they did.
"In order to process your application, DHHL
utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate
of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more
complete record of your birth than the Certification of
Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the
original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and
money since the computer-generated Certification requires
additional verification by DHHL."
http://web.archive.org/web/20060930042842/www.hawaii.gov/dhhl/applyhhl.htm
@wolfemanic:
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 18:57 ET by j. frank wilsonYour reply lacks "context." What are these rules for? Certainly not a Hawaiian passport.
I did notice the bureaucrat(s) who wrote these rules requested the long form to make their lives easier...
Yes, the Certifi"cation" is that usless...
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 00:17 ET by wolfemanicWhat are the rules for?
Its so if you can prove your really born in Hawaii, the state will give you a stinking piece of cheap lava to build a home on.
That's it, and they say clearly don't bring that piece of crap Certifi"cation" of Live Birth, your wasting their time.
How silly for anyone to think the presidency is more important eh?
HEAVEN FORBID THE GUY WITH THE LAUNCH CODES SHOW US HIS LONG FORM BC.
This country is becoming the pinnacle of stupidity.
@wolfemanic:
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 09:42 ET by j. frank wilsonDid you read those rules or just post them?
Yes, I knew what they were for. And if President Obama ever wants to claim his piece of land he can file a claim.
In the meanwhile, this has nothing to do with the topic at hand.
Folks here bring up Louisiana drivers' licenses and Hawaiian land claims (incorrectly in both cases, as it happens) as if they had some relationship to citizenship.
FIRST Frank.....its the
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 11:29 ET by wolfemanicFIRST Frank.....its the Certifi"cation" OLB , not the Certifi"cate" OLB
that is not enough proof your born in Hawaii. The certifi"cation" is
all Obozo has produced.
Its crap.....who says?
Its the FRIGGING state of Hawaii THEMSELVES who say its not good
enough, and they posted that FACT for years on their state web site. Then....when it was discovered, they they took it down here in 09. But we archived it before they did.
"In order to process your application, DHHL
utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate
of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more
complete record of your birth than the Certification of
Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the
original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and
money since the computer-generated Certification requires
additional verification by DHHL."
http://web.archive.org/web/20060930042842/www.hawaii.gov/dhhl/applyhhl.h...
FIRST Frank.....its the
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 11:31 ET by wolfemanicFIRST Frank.....its the Certifi"cation" OLB , not the Certifi"cate" OLB
that is not enough proof your born in Hawaii. The certifi"cation" is
all Obozo has produced.
Its crap.....who says?
Its the FRIGGING state of Hawaii THEMSELVES who say its not good
enough, and they posted that FACT for years on their state web site. Then....when it was discovered, they they took it down here in 09. But we archived it before they did.
"In order to process your application, DHHL
utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate
of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more
complete record of your birth than the Certification of
Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the
original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and
money since the computer-generated Certification requires
additional verification by DHHL."
http://web.archive.org/web/20060930042842/www.hawaii.gov/dhhl/applyhhl.h...
Dave... As you can tell
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 16:25 ET by bigtimerDave...
As you can tell from my posts above today, and elsewhere over time, I am getting sick of it too.
It's as if we are all supposed to all go sit down in a corner and shut the heck up...keep quiet.
As an aside...I am really disappointed with Coulter regarding her calling us cranks etc., not all agree on everything, but for me that was below the belt...and posters that know me well, know how much I've supported Ann in the past on NBs.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
bt
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 17:11 ET by R D HelmI am almost at the point where I cannot even log in to HA anymore.
I just don't see the problem with asking a legitimate question.
-Dave
Dave... I know what you
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 17:14 ET by bigtimerDave...
I know what you mean.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
r d
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 17:26 ET by misterbillwhat is HA????
Howdy misterb... Hot
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 17:39 ET by bigtimerHowdy misterb...
Hot Air.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
BT
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 17:49 ET by misterbillThanks-- I have not visited there.
Who is Goldbar?? Is he a Frankie pseudonym?? He does support Dr Rossiter's pyschological profile of a liberal.....
LOL misterb... That he
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 17:52 ET by bigtimerLOL misterb...
That he doesn't.
As always, just another troll just a trollin' along, as he always has.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
Don't let it bother you Mr. Dave.
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 01:51 ET by JWFDon't forget, the MSM riducules anything that makes them feel uncomfortable. teabaggers, birthers, rightwing nuts, Palin the hick, gun nuts, right to lifers, idiot christians.
They are angry beause this won't go away despite their best efforts.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
We all know
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 18:45 ET by Wesenthat IT IS THE APPEARANCE OF IMPROPRIETY which demands an investigation.
Uh-uh-uhbama
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 19:37 ET by Free StinkerSomething possibly related to the Obama citizenship issue is the matter of his passport records . . . .
Re Getting Rid of Him
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 19:46 ET by slickwillie2001In the very best of cases folks, there's no way we could rid ourselves of him on this matter. If irrefutable proof of his lack of natural-born citizenship could be found, Congress would go into a huddle and pass some quick laws negating the Constitutional requirements. The Supreme Court would tuck tail and hide under their desks if the law was challenged.
Truly getting rid of him would result in a revolt in the streets that would make Watts 1965 look like your high school prom. Not going to happen. We shouldn't want it to happen that way, remember we might lose and end up with something a hell of a lot worse. Anyway, 64 million people voted for him and didn't seem to care about the rumors that he was Kenyan.
On the other hand, the positive value of proof is that it would throw a steel beam into the gears of his socialist revolution and slow his momentum to a crawl, if not break it entirely. It might also be the last gasp for the old liberal media. The old liberal media is broken and busted, and the sooner that is recognized, the sooner the debris can be swept up and replaced with something useful.
slow his momentum to a
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 19:51 ET by Free Stinkerslow his momentum to a crawl,
Looks like that may be happening anyway, especially when he's got 60 votes in the Senate but still can't get his agenda passed . . .
If Duh One is shown not to
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 19:53 ET by Dan The Man 2If Duh One is shown not to be a US citizen then he should be immediately deposed and his second in command assume the office. The Constitution demands it. If that does not happen there will be secession of at least a few states.
The military will have to side with the constitution.
The military will have to side with the constitution.
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 20:09 ET by Free StinkerThe military will have to side with the constitution.
That's the thing we still have on our side.
The Military and Federal Law Enforcement take their oath to The Constitution, not the President.
"Gov. Palin has been subjected to one of the most massive and dishonest pile-on smear attacks in the history of liberal media." -- Lowell Ponte
Dan, If Obama is ineligible, he would be a Class A federal felon
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 21:51 ET by R D Helm-Dave
...and everything he signed
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 22:02 ET by bigtimer...and everything he signed since taking office would be null and void.
But come on...we all know that will never happen.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
bt, I am not that concerned about domestic legislation he signs
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 22:26 ET by R D Helm...as the federal court system, billions of dollars later, would eventually noodle all that out.
It is the ramifications for our military that I am most concerned with, as we are currently in a state of war.
A "sane" world would simply say that they didn't know they were following orders issued by a rogue CIC, and therefore should not be held responsible for any "war crimes."
However, we no-longer exist in a "sane" world.
-Dave
What the hell is 'sane'
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 22:35 ET by bigtimerWhat the hell is 'sane' anymore Dave?
I see things in life upside down now, as far as my lifetime goes.
People fear what their own words are anymore...the Fairness Doctrine is already being slowly invoked.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
bt,
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 23:12 ET by R D Helm"What the hell is 'sane' anymore Dave?"
LOL-Beats the ever lovin' hell out of me.
As I look back over the vast sea of history, one thing has always made an indelible impression on me:
Man's historical natural state is living under totalitarian rule. Free republics such as ours are a decided rarity along the course of human history.
We have all been supremely fortunate to have been born into, and lived most of our lives in, this rare, great country, yet, through indifference, laziness, or whatever, we (as a whole) have decided it is no-longer worth fighting for.
Freedom and liberty such as we have enjoyed come with a very steep price. They always have. As long as the majority is willing to pay same, the nation survives and even prospers. When the majority turns inward and seeks security more than freedom, as we have over the last half-century, then freedom soon evaporates, as ours is now.
For all of our (alleged) knowledge, experience, and the ability to pull up vast stores of history quite literally at our fingertips, it appears that we as a people have learned positively f'ing nothing.
Sometime in the distant future, historians are going to become curious as to what exactly resulted in this nations demise, and they are going to start looking around for evidence of what might have caused it.
They need look no further than the 16th Amendment to this nation's Constitution.
-Dave
Amen Dave ...Amen. You
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 23:13 ET by bigtimerAmen Dave ...Amen.
You have my eyes misting over as I read your words.
So true they are friend, so sadly true they are.
Enough said...now, I've got to get a Kleenex...seriously.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
bt, My apologies.
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 02:07 ET by R D HelmI'm not quite yet ready to say we're completely toast, just that our chances of preventing us becoming that way are getting slimmer by the hour.
After all, the tiny handful of Roman citizens in the final, sad days of the old Roman Republic, even though they could clearly see what was coming, they were decidedly lacking something that we now have.
Let's hope we take advantage of it.
Soon.
-Dave
The Alamo--
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 23:39 ET by misterbillA small group of men and women had to die before the country woke up and stood as one. The anger over their deaths resulted in recruits swarming to General Houston's army and the resultant conquest of the enemy and the growth of America.
If such a wake up call does not happen and soon, the historians will be writing those curious questions a lot sooner than they should, which should be never!
We play courteous games that do not advance the sovereignty of the United States. The SCOTUS should ask the President to produce his evidence or to stand down.
It is not only the 16th amendment, it includes the misinterpretation of the 14th. It includes the ignorance of our black citizens associating slavery with illegal immigration. Check the Immigration Report Card on all the black legislators. Almost all Fs. They screw their own constituents. Black citizens have the highest unemployment rates in America. The local governments sit and argue whether illegals should get in-state tuition rates. What kind of God damned insanity is that?? What the hell kind of reasoning is that?? They are here illegally, damn it. They get no rate--no school. I pay taxes for American youth not for the rest of the world. Sweet heaven, that is collusion and for a state employee to even bring it up is a FELONY and no one prosecutes.
Fix health care. 42 million without insurance? For God's sake, read the numbers. Most of them do have insurance or aid and many choose not to spend their money on premiums. I am not going to cite the numbers here, look them up yourselves. The piano needs tuning, so throw it our and buy an organ?? What the hell kind of governing is that???
Crowd the lending institutions to provide subprime loans to low income people and then act shocked when they cannot make the payments?? Grow up you government assholes. Anyone who runs a home knows you cannot do that. Now we are going to fix it by going deeper in debt?? What the f#$%?
Here's a part 2 for you---
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 23:52 ET by misterbillDo you know that about 20% of America's doctors belong to the AMA. Are you aware that 80% disagree with the AMA positions and do not join?
So when the AMA joins with Obama--what are they saying and who says it?
Next--the conservatives, here and other sites. Tonight will probably be my swan song. They jumped on the "mock Ron Paul" bandwagon. They likened SPP/NAU people as conspiros and similar to 9/11 Truthers. That is and was a really bad rap and totally wrong.
Have you read the study that posits how Obama won the election??? Recent articles cite the increase in new voters while the older voters stayed home. Why did they stay home?/ The poll shows it was because they did not want either candidate. So much for the conservatives putting the screws to conservative candidates. I believe strongly that any one of three other GOP candidates may have won. I believe that Sarah Palin added a large number of votes to McCains campaign.
Well folks, the Alamo needs a few good soldiers. You may have to be wiped out before the rest of the conservatives wake up--but what are you willing to risk for a better America??
The sad part is that America is waking up, but too little, too late. If the Obamateur gets two of his programs voted in--there will be little chance of recovery for our nation. Our congress is populated with people whose loyalty is to a global economy or to people of their own nationality, not to America.
What do we do about that???
Remember the Alamo!!! but for God's sake, don't let it interfere with TV or texting!!!
Not impressed
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 05:23 ET by UnsaneThey likened SPP/NAU people as conspiros and similar to 9/11 Truthers. For good reason. Perhaps one of the bigger proponents of making the SPP molehill into Mt. Everest and whining about some evil plot to forcibly amalgamate the U.S., Canada and Mexico into a "union" was Pat Buchanan, who, in an article, pointed to an evil highway from the border to Kansas City as the key to making the whole thing happen. Some posters as well declared the Texas Trans Corridor as critical to this evil plot.
Except for one little thing. On 11 January 2009, the TTC was declared dead. And why? Nowhere did I hear mention of kook theories of forcibly merging three countries that really do not want that much to do with each other other than trade and commerce; two of which are made highly insecure just by the presence of the United States on their borders.
Nah. This evil proposal died because of some mundane thing called right of way. One county commissioner put it best: "A thousand acres doesn't sound like a lot until it's your thousand acres." The amount of land the TTC was to gobble up was the death knell for the project.
Yesterday, for the first time in this part of the country, I drove past a rig with Quebec tags. In this part of the state that isn't a common sight. Instead of reacting with extreme terror, I thought it rather nice that the Quebecker driving the thing was doubtless leaving many loonies in his wake in order to get goods from point A to point B - leaving tax dollars in TX state coffers along the way. Everyone imaginable wins from that simple act of commerce being conducted.
The SPP is a stupid talk-shop on the lines of the G8 or G20. Canada is culturally scared to death of the United States and is manifest everywhere in that country. Quebec barely tolerates being part of Canada and therefore I cannot imagine how it would fit into such a nefarious scheme. Mexico has identity issues of its own. Conspiros of the world: study your history, know and understand your culture...and above all...get over it. Your silly idea of an "NAU" is pure fantasy and is as likely to happen as my getting a date with EIB, much less her phone number.
Our congress is populated with people whose loyalty is to a global economy or to people of their own nationality, not to America. Not under His Majesty The Shahinshah. Remember the "Buy America" clause? And His actions remind me of the hyper-protectionist (on paper, anyway) France.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Rest assured--
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 13:51 ET by misterbill--that Pat Buchanan's positions are held in higher credibility by me than yours.
Not again!
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 14:26 ET by Unsanemisterbill, the more you type in support of populist shriekers like Buchanan and Dobbs, the more you disappoint me.
As you are considerably older than I am, you probably remember the Great Depression, or the end of that terrible time. Sure, the stock market crash of 1929 was a big cause for it. So was the Smoot-Hawley Tariff Act of 1930, which was a protectionist bit of legislation you and Buchanan and Dobbs would be very proud of. That 1931 is generally considered to be the worst year of the Depression I am sure is just mere coincidence (dripping with sarcasm). I could also make a tight case that the economic policies you so badly want went a long way to causing the deaths of tens of millions of people in World War II; a war which in part was caused by trade issues dating from the 1920s.
Really. Attack my intelligence all you wish. But it isn't a coincidence in my mind why presidents from 1933-2009 have been free traders. (I am shocked you don't like His Majesty The Shahinshah some more. He is a protectionist - maybe not as much as you'd like, but He is a protectionist all the same.
Let us review: as much as I love free trade - because I love buying a pack of V-neck white shirts for around $10 at Wal-Mart - I hate illegal immigration and the idea of giving people who break the law amnesty (because both are direct slaps at family members who went through a great deal of trouble to eimgrate here). Oh, and one reason I love free trade is because I believe it gives the United States the opportunity to show what we can make and what we are made of. We don't need to be coddled and babied by protectionism - we can take on anybody, and do so all the time. You will never catch me owning a truck not of American manufacture, or of owning a computer/laptop not made by an American company. There are just some things Americans do better. Those who make crap need to be driven out of business to make way for others who can do it and do it better. If government gets the hell out of the way via regulations and arbitrary rules like the minimum wage, for example - Americans will do GREAT things, as we typically do.
So please, hang me from the nearest tree. Shoot me. Execute me however you wish.
I believe that the TTC is dead because the people you show so much disdain for--the Texas folks who followed the issues and the plans-- exposed them to the light of day which resulted in a display of anger and resistance in Texas that resulted in the plans being put on hold and returned to the shadows of the drawing board. They will surface again if and when amnesty is passed. Um, where the hell do I show disdain for anyone here other than misguided Leftists? And you throw a tantrum when I called you a liar! THIS IS WHY!!! I do not want to - sheesh, I otherwise hold you in high regard - but what am I supposed to do? Take attacks on my patriotism, and misrepresentations of what I believe sitting down? Learn to watch what you say about me and others!
Anyways, you can believe what you want - I saw a Guadalupe County commissioner briefly interviewed on 11 January 2009, and he said, straight up, the big concern was right of way. As they are elected officials, people around here were telling their county commissioners "you know, this is going to take up too much of my property". I have no problem whatsoever with that argument. The project was to use up waaaaay too much land, which was my big concern as well. IMHO, if they are all so deeply concerned about a north-south highway across Texas, instead of whining and hand-wringing about it - as they have my whole life - they can widen I-35 instead.
I close with some wisdom from Mark Levin's amazing book, Liberty and Tyranny, pages 83-85. No, misterbill, you are no Statist, I'm just quoting an especially telling section of his book. This is one of the reasons I like free trade. People in Everett, WA, for instance, are employed by demand from all over the world for the planes they produce. The Indians, for example, have to get that money from someplace.
"The Statist frequently attempts to relieve himself of responsibility for his own deeds by invoking the mantra of "outsourcing" - that is, the hiring of workers and businesses abroad to undertake tasks that might conceivably by performed in the United States. In 2004, Democratic Presidential candidate John Kerry railed against "Benedict Arnold CEOs" who send American jobs overseas. In 2008, (His Majesty The Shahinshah) asserted that "we have to stop providing tax breaks to companies that are shipping jobs overseas and give those tax breaks to companies that are investing here in the United States of America." The Statist urges the view that millions of jobs are lost to such practices and complains about every call center that opens in India. He creates the impression that there are no benefits to American society to hiring foreign workers and is not above instigating ethnic animosity. However, the facts do not support the hyperbole.
"Jacob Funk Kirkegaard. a research associate at the Peterson Institute for International Economics, studied the official statistics for 'mass layoffs' (fifty or more people) in the United States. He found about 1 million people out of a workforce of roughly 150 million were part of a mass layoff in 2004 and 2005. Only a small percentage of these layoffs were due to the exportation of jobs. Kirkegaard wrote, 'the combined employment effects of offshoring and offshore outsourcing represent just 4 percent of all separations from mass layoffs in the United States in 2004-2005'.
"And what of the 'giant sucking sound' of jobs moving to, say, Mexico as a result of the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) - which essentially eliminated numerous trade barriers among Mexico, Canada, and the United States? Those job losses would have shown up in American unemployment statistics. Yet once NAFTA took effect in 1994, unemployment generally declined. In 2007, before the recent economic downturn, the average unemployment rate was 4.7 percent, below the prevailing rates in the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s.
"The Statist ignores the benefits of free trade, because it undermines his agenda. When a computer company lowers costs by opening a call center in India, the price of a computer goes down, benefiting American consumers. Money is then freed up in the United States to spend more productively. As Indians become wealthier, they buy more goods and services from the United States. In the past several years, some of the fastest growth in American goods and services has been to India.
"And what of the benefits of foreign investment pouring into the United States - or 'insourcing'? According to the Commerce Department, foreign investment created 447,000 new jobs in the United States between 2003 and 2007. In 2007, 5.3 million Americans were employed by U.S. subsidiaries of foreign companies. These companies maintained a payroll of $364.2 billion for American workers."
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
An edit???
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 21:35 ET by UnsaneWell, well, well. I wish I could have kept the majority of that long, massive insulting diatribe that has now been edited by someone or something. At least I kept misterbill's PS, in bold on my first response to him.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
misterb... YOU Spoke for
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 23:59 ET by bigtimermisterb...
YOU Spoke for me, and I would imagine millions of us out here...your every word sir, you spoke volumes.
..I want to add one add on I don't see very often regarding health care BS...there are tons and tons of clinics that take in people from all walks of life, you pay by your income level, even if it is zero...you are not turned away, I ought to know, we have two on both sides of where we live, and it's two different states to-boot.
We already have free health care if that is how you want to classify it.
The govt. can't even run the danged Postal Service for one easy example, they haven't been able to for more years back than I want to count...they must be stopped.
Edit~ misterb, I hope you understand I made this post before your part 2 addition. Time stamps, you will see what I mean. ;-)
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
A health care war story
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 00:38 ET by misterbillI have a 23 year old son. Until last year, he lived with Debbie and me. He had been dropped from my private insurance because he was not a full time student. He became ill off and on. We went to the emergency room a couple of times and they found he had gall stones. Also his gallbladder was infected and he needed surgery and soon.
He applied for Medicaid as he was unemployed. He was turned down. They told him he had a place to live so he was ineligible, even though no income and a student. He was told by one of the employees that if he said he was in the country illegally, they could have found a way to cover him.
Long story short--no insurance. He went in for the surgery--he had to. We went to the Doctor's office for post-op checkup. I got in a conversation with the billing clerk who gave me some search tips for the web to read up on Medicaid where I found there is money for illegal immigrants but not for Americans.
We did get breaks from the hospital for the emergency room visits and OR through their indigent care program. My son went, applied and we got some financial assistance. He was also told there that it was too bad that he was not illegal or he would get total free care through Medicaid. None of the personnel liked it, but they had to get money for the hospital wherever they could and Medicaid would pay all for illegals but none for most Americans.
The Doctor's fee was not covered and Debbie and I , over time, paid it. We got a good discount for early payment, but no assistance.
I tend to look at the glass half full most of the time. I am grateful that my retirement and Debbie's paycheck allowed us to pay for our son's needed surgery. I have empathy for Americans who have lost their jobs and have illness in the family.
Do not ever tell me that illegal immigrants do not put a serious strain on the healthcare expenses in America.
A brief PS. At about midnight, while we were in the ER with a few other people. My son was semi-reclining in a chair, in pain, four Spanish speaking adults with two children, came in. They did not have to wait. They were ushered in to the ER area almost immediately. They were inside for some 30-40 minutes. They came out laughing and did not have to stop at the billing office. I had heard things like this, but I got to see it first hand.
Swing by Texas for more proof
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 14:29 ET by UnsaneDo not ever tell me that illegal immigrants do not put a serious strain on the healthcare expenses in America. Hell, just pay a visit to Texas for more evidence.
I like immigration and all, but really, is it too much to ask of our government and those who wish to come here to follow a procedure like my mother and grandmother had to???
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Deposed--
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 23:17 ET by misterbill-- and appropriately imprisoned in Guantanamo.
Who knows? It may be the second time Michelle is proud of America!!!!
About an hour ago I saw a
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 20:24 ET by bigtimerAbout an hour ago I saw a segment regarding this subject on Fox with BOR, and it was zeroing in on Lou Dobbs.
Featuring Southern Poverty Law Center starring Cohen, calling for CNN to fire Dobbs and of course starring the big shot BOR....both were maddening to us in this happy home...for us BOR dismissing the COLB issue...and the SPLC is needing money/attention ect once again since O has been elected...after-all, everything with them is a race issue.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
E-Mail,- Passport ??
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 21:17 ET by kilrodPassport Question?
Just another unanswered question that will be ignored by the staunch Dems who think that we are all racists, poor losers and the Redeemers citizenship is unimportant.
Very Interesting questions
More questions, and this time some good questions.
While I've little interest in getting in the middle of the Obama birth issue, Paul Hollrah over at FSM did so yesterday and believes the issue can be resolved by Obama answering one simple question:
What passport did he use when he was shuttling between New York , Jakarta , and Karachi ?
So how did a young man who arrived in New York in early June 1981, without the price of a hotel room in his pocket, suddenly come up with the price of a round-the-world trip just a month later?
And once he was on a plane, shuttling between New York , Jakarta , and Karachi , what passport was he offering when he passed through Customs and Immigration?
The American people not only deserve to have answers to these questions, they must have answers.
It makes the debate over Obama's citizenship a rather short and simple one.
Q: Did he travel to Pakistan in 1981, at age 20? A : Yes, by his own admission.
Q: What passport did he travel under?
A: There are only three possibilities.
1) He traveled with a U.S. Passport,
2) He traveled with a British passport, or
3) He traveled with an Indonesia passport. Q: Is it possible that Obama traveled with a U.S. Passport in 1981?A: No. It is not possible. Pakistan was on the U.S. State Department's "no travel" list in 1981.
Conclusion: When Obama went to Pakistan in 1981 he was traveling either with a British passport or an Indonesian passport.
If he were traveling with a British passport that would provide proof that he was born in Kenya on August 4, 1961, not in Hawaii as he claims. And if he were traveling with an Indonesian passport that would tend to prove that he relinquished whatever previous citizenship he held, British or American, prior to being adopted by his Indonesian stepfather in 1967.
Whatever the truth of the matter, the American people need to know how he managed to become a "natural born" American citizen between 1981 and 2008..
Given the destructive nature of his plans for America, as illustrated by his speech before Congress and the disastrous spending plan he has presented to Congress, the sooner we learn the truth of all this, the better.
If you Don't care that Your President is not a natural born Citizen and in Violation of the Constitution, then Delete this and go into your cocoon.
If you do care then Forward this!
Remember, only two defining forces have ever offered to die for you, Jesus Christ and the American Soldier
@kilrod:
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 17:46 ET by j. frank wilsonNow you're "O" for Two...
Pakistan was not on the US State Department's "No Travel" list in 1981. That's a Birthier Legend (or, Myth, if you prefer - as in Hit or Myth? Myth!).
http://dosfan.lib.uic.edu/ERC/travel/cis/southasia/TA_Pakistan1981.pdf
J Frank, The Birthers
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 07:10 ET by CacciatoJ Frank,
The Birthers remind me of the old Nietzsche quote:
"Beware when you fight a dragon, lest you become a dragon".
They've solidly become what they hated so much under Bush. Raving lunatics, willing to ignore facts for a more fitting fiction.
A simple google search would have shown Kilrod and the rest of the Birthers that the Pakistan issue was dead in the water, yet they want to believe so strongly that they don't even look into it. They simply hear something that supports their distorted world view and run with it.
For all the crying about BDS during the Bush years, you'd think they'd be a bit more cognisant of their behavior. In my opinion, ODS far surpasses anything we've seen under Bush. At least the left decried under Bush had some rooting in reality (e.g. patriot act, torture, etc).
The difference
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 08:49 ET by UnsaneCacciatore, sorry. The Left loved to constantly whine about "torture" under Bush. In the Left's mind, if any of the cute, cuddly terrorists they were so deeply concerned about got a hangnail at Gitmo, it was torture.
The Left loves to constantly, continually whine about how we are allegedly not following the Geneva Convention in regards to the prisoners at Gitmo. You guys should be happy: if we WERE following the Geneva Convention to the letter, all of those cute, cuddly terrorists for who you so painfully weep would be at the bottom of the Carribbean right now.
The Patriot Act? Rightists have bitched about that as much as Leftists. I for one am...oh, I don't know, other than making some of my financial transactions imbued with more silliness, I don't see the point.
Your God, His Majesty The Shahinshah, is the center of a personality cult, which I constantly mock. Such behavior is not befitting a President but a dictator.
Not to mention, He has taken ownership of financial institutions, and is attempting to nationalize 1/6th of the United States economy. And no, I do not care what He says on the issue; all one needs to do is to read the actual bill. Page 16 kills private insurance. Oh, and since I do not have an insurer, and pay my way through cash; He is to punish me by making me pay an additional 2.5% in taxes to get something I do not want or need.
The Right is decrying His Majesty The Shahinshah in something far rooted in reality.
Not to mention His traveling the world apologizing for the United States when there is absolutely nothing to apologize for. His giving His allies the finger doesn't help, either: ask Britain, Canada, and Israel, among others.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
ODS vs BDS
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 08:55 ET by SickofLibsBDS = totally warranted, ODS = not reality-based in any way
So you agree that it's a good thing that Obama circles the globe every two months apologizing for your own country?
bt, I saw that, too.
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 21:41 ET by R D HelmI think they are getting a little nervous myself, as this story just won't die.
Of course, Obama himself could put it all to rest inside of 30 seconds.
Funny thing is, after two-plus years, and a cool million thrown down a barrister's rat-hole, he still refuses to do so.
Why?
Is it perhaps because he can't?
-Dave
Re BOR
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 22:27 ET by slickwillie2001I saw that too. Bill was typically snide and dismissive. Still, if this story just amounts to the old media reporting on other old media reporting, it keeps it alive.
Prove it
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 21:19 ET by nkviking75I've said this before on this site, and I'll say it again: Without taking a position on the "birther" controversy, why isn't there a law requiring all presidential candidates to provide proof of their eligibility under the terms of the Constitution? A few years ago when I lost my wallet, and thereby my driver's license, I had to provide two forms of proof of identity to get the state to issue me a new license. Why don't require the same of the men and women who want to hold our highest office? For that matter, why don't we have the same rule for both houses of Congress?
When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.
Ditto that...I've said same
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 21:43 ET by bigtimerDitto that...I've said same sentiments more than once or twice myself regarding this matter, think I did above somewhere too....couldn't agree more.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
I don't think it takes a
Mon, 07/27/2009 - 23:08 ET by RR GOPI don't think it takes a genius to figure out that there's a massive cover up here. I guess after all these years of putting up with the Clintons we just take it for granted.
But there's a lot of fishy stuff with this guy and if it were somebody I supported politically, I would feel very uncomfortable about all this.
I think too many sheeple are assuming that The One will screw up with his policies.
Why do I think he's too stubborn to simply sit down and let that happen?
One of the 34% who thinks George W. Bush was a great President. One of the 61% who wants to bring back the stock and pillory (yep...approval for Congress now at 39%...do you believe that!?).
Birthers and Truthers
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 01:09 ET by WhichWingMaybe we should treat each group with respect. They are both questioning something that they believe to be important. Both think they have credible evidence to support their concerns.
It's funny that the people that pejoritavely labeled people 'truthers' are now being called 'birthers.' Perhaps some of you will now recognize this for what it is, a pathetic attempt to avoid discussion of an important topic.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
Well sort of
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 08:38 ET by general companyBoth think they have credible evidence to support their concerns.
Birthers are concerned about a lack of evidence
Perhaps some of you will now recognize this for what it is, a pathetic attempt to avoid discussion of an important topic.
What topic is that?
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Birthers are concerned
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 02:28 ET by WhichWingBirthers are concerned about a lack of evidence
As are the truthers.
What topic is that?
I meant their respective topics, birthers and truthers.
I'm not asking for you to agree with birthers or truthers, I'm suggesting you extend them each the same level of respect (or disrespect).
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw
Silliness
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 08:53 ET by UnsaneOh, but I thought you were just an "asker".
Truthers deserve absolutely no respect, as their precious theory - and your precious theory, I might add - is blown to hell through logistics alone.
I'll be the first to slap the "birthers" around left and right if He does me a favor and just releases any and all documents relating to His birth. What, you think I haven't pummeled Rightists in the past for being Conspiros?
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Stuck on the same refrain
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 06:58 ET by WhichWingJust release any and all documents relating to 9/11.
I understand the birthers questions. And I understand that the extra secrecy only adds to the questions. It's the same in both camps.
Only difference is this: You've decided to question one of them.
Here is my impression of you responding to me if this had been reversed:
Ignore the truther Pumpkinhead. He is waiting to be banned.
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 09:03 ET by JWFHe is mad because people here have been deriding him as the truther he is.
So now he thinks he can argue that truthers have some kind of moral equivilence with people wanting to see BOH's birth certificate.
Wait until he starts arguing that terrorists have a moral equivalence with our men and women in uniform.
You'll see he is a flake of the first order.
Come on, arab apologist, give the people some quotes from the master, Osama Bin Laden. We know you have it in you.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Hey
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 02:31 ET by WhichWingI believe other members, as well as myself, have pointed out how blatantly rasict the term 'arab apologist' is. I can understand if you want to continue to trash me at every turn, whether it be relavent to the discussion or not, but you might consider dropping that term from your repertoire.
arabapologistsezwhat?
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 06:48 ET by JWFI googled the term. Wow, what a surprise at the very top link.
Whoa - and to think
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 09:05 ET by SickofLibsWhoa - and to think businesses pay thousands and thousands of dollars a month for that to happen.
Only "useful idiots' read the NY Times, or as Mark Levin...
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 01:58 ET by jawebster1calls it, the "NY Slimes". Jim Webster
At least this issue is in
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 02:52 ET by RR GOPAt least this issue is in the forefront of the MSM-for now, which is better than nothing. I'm actually surprised to see this happening, but given the falling poll numbers and people losing their jobs, I can understand the interest in this.
I think Coulter's blowing it off because she thinks that they'll never get to see this documentation so why give the Libs more ammo and deflect attention away from The One's flailing about over the Obamacare scam.
I seem to remember Coulter making a comment about His missing birth certificate months ago (on Hannity I think), but I guess that was someone else?
Now with Fair and Balanced BOR, he hath decreed that they investigated this and there's absolutely no story...oh, and global warming is really happening.
It's like our legal system dealing with a murder. Blood stains, possible murder weapon, witnesses. No body? Well, we'll just assume they're still alive and kicking! If we pretend reeeeeeal hard and close our eyes we can see the victim sitting in the Bahamas sipping a pina colada.
No valid REAL birth certificate?...OK, that's it, there's your proof He's a natural born citizen...move along folks.
One of the 34% who thinks George W. Bush was a great President. One of the 61% who wants to bring back the stock and pillory (yep...approval for Congress now at 39%...do you believe that!?).
Why did the press bring it up again at a white house briefing?
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 04:27 ET by JWFIf this is such a ridiculous thing that needs to be dismissed out of hand, why keep bringing it up? Yesterday at the White House Briefing.
Gibbs teh Straw Man: If I had some DNA, it wouldn’t assuage those who believe [Obama] wasn’t born here.
Uh, the birth certificate might assuage them, maybe, yes? DNA does not have anything with where you wuz born, it has everything to do with who you wuz born to.
Whether you believe Obama is eligible or not. Keep pushing.
Something is on that birth certificate that Obama and goldfart does not want us to see.
I still think it is something that does not square with the official biography he has released in 2 books that Bill Ayers wrote.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
JWF:
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 06:01 ET by SickofLibsJULY 27 HONOLULU (AP) - "State officials again are confirming that President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii.
Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino said Monday she has seen the original birth RECORDS that verify Obama was born in Hawaii, and is a "natural-born American citizen."
Fukino made the announcement in hopes of ending any lingering rumors about Obama's citizenship. She issued a similar press release Oct. 31.
State law bars release of a certified birth certificate to anyone who does not have a tangible interest."
So something else DOES exist in addition than the BC we've all seen. I believe he was born in HA but I also think you're right about something not squaring up.
And who more than Obama himself would have a more "tangible interest" in putting this to rest once and for all by authorizing the release of whatever other records Fukino claims she saw?
Why can't you birthers let this die?
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 07:33 ET by JWFThe U.S. House of Representatives said happy birthday to the 50th State yesterday, peripherally stepping into the "birther" fray with a resolution that notes, "President Barack Obama was born in Hawaii on Aug. 4, 1961."
It is settle people. The U.S house of representatives went back in time and witnessed the birth of our President.
Except for Nancy Pelosi, she had a botox appointment and could not make it.
Oh, also, it was not in the news, but they also announced it is physically possible for monkeys to fly out of my butt too. Ticket sales commence immediately.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
This just in: Tennesee says Elvis is still dead.
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 07:48 ET by JWFIt is settled right? Then why would Hawaii feel compelled to tell us again that Barack Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and witnessed by the 434 members of the House of Representatives.
Also yesterday, state Health Director Dr. Chiyome Fukino issued a statement saying: "I have seen the original vital records maintained on file by the Hawaii State Department of Health verifying Barrack (sic) Hussein Obama was born in Hawaii and is a natural-born American citizen."
Also announced yesterday -
Dairy association says milk still comes from cows.
U.S Government says law of gravity still valid and request people stop free floating.
Tennessee announces Elvis still dead.
Department of Agriculture announces world's oceans not made of beer. JWF announces he is deeply disappointed.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Not Troofers
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 10:11 ET by slickwillie2001A more appropriate comparison for the BC crowd would be the Swiftboat Veterans group.
-
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 10:24 ET by slickwillie2001-
Wow!
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 12:25 ET by mvfreemanJust out of curiosity, does the NB editorial staff have a position on the birth certificate "issue"?
Of course they do! They
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 13:44 ET by goldbarOf course they do! They believe Obama's an illegal immigrant the same as Lou Dobbs believes.
And the newspaper's birth
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 12:42 ET by goldbarAnd the newspaper's birth announcement is fake too, I suppose?
Oh please, you don't need
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 14:26 ET by dscottOh please, you don't need any documentation to place a notice in the newspaper for a birth announcement, any more than a wedding announcement or obituary which are ALL inititated by personal request to the newspaper as a PSA. Do you really think the newspaper dispatched a reporter to announce to the world that Barack Obama was born in 1961???? Do you really? So who put the announcement in the paper? Why the grandparents of course. That's what you did in those days, it didn't matter where the baby was born.
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
And why did his mother
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 14:37 ET by bedmondsonAnd why did his mother decide to fly to a 3rd world country to have her son? So you are saying that Obama's grandparents went not one but two different newspapers to announce his birth in Kenya? I guess you would not believe the fact that parents and relatives did not have the ability to place birth announcements in the Honolulu Advertiser or the Honolulu StarBulletin and I bet you don't believe that it was the announcements were received from the Department of Vital Statistics System. Oh wait! they were all in on it. They all wanted baby Hussien to be be a secret Kenyan manchurian canidate so that they could pass universal health care legislation in 2009.
Why does anyone go
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 08:08 ET by dscottWhy does anyone go anywhere? We can speculate the timing of Ann Dunham's travels, however, it is a fact that she was in Kenya with her husband Sotero.
Dude, anyone can place a birth announcement PSA in a newspaper!
Now you're getting silly like a truther, since when does the Depart of Vital Stats use birth announcements in the newspaper for proof of birth??? I guessed you missed my earlier snark when I used the exact same sarcasm about reporters announcing the coming of Barack Obama, aka Barry Sotero.
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
Whateva. You know, the
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 08:03 ET by bedmondsonWhateva. You know, the astonauts took video of their landing, hit golf balls, planted a flog, and even brought down moon rocks but guess what? all the fools like you birthers still don't believe the lunar landing happened. Bottom line, a copy of the original is not required and the short form is completely legal. Get over it or be resigned to sitting with peoeple like the landing deniers.
Sniff. Sniff. Whateva.
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 08:16 ET by JWFWassamatter bedwetter? You spoke and we still do not listen. Shame that, eh? Shame.
Might want to tell that to the reporters at the white house briefings and the Hawaii officials that feel compelled to issue the that they have indeed witnessed Obama's REAL birth certificate and it indeed sits on a special stand in the vault.
Or tell the House of Representatives that they do not need to go back in time and announce BHO was born in Hawaii.
All of this in the last week.
I don't really think it is us so much bedwetter.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Thank you for conceding the
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 08:33 ET by dscottThank you for conceding the question that Obama should produce his long form, you did that by falsely claiming I don't believe the moon landings were real. I watched all of them as a kid sonny boy, and they were real.
When one hides something, there is a reason for it. IF Obama has nothing to hide then he should produce his long form birth "certificate", since it will only show a couple more pieces of information not on the "certification".
What's he afraid of? What is the coward afraid of???? If McCain can do it, so can Obama. Obama is a hypocrit, he says he's all for transparency, yet he hides behind flimsey legalities. I'm calling your messiah a COWARD. So what does that make you? The follower of a COWARD. Feigling.
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
@dscott:
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 08:50 ET by j. frank wilson"If McCain can do it...?"
What did Sen. McCain do? Let his friends in the Senate pass a law that he is a natural born citizen?
I'm still waiting for the dates of the "congressional hearings" referenced by Wing Nut Daily.
The only thing I conced to
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 10:56 ET by bedmondsonThe only thing I conced to is that you remind me of crazed conspiracy theorists and I didn't say you believe the moon landing was staged I. I was trying to use a real world example of what I think giving in to this conspiracy would do, nothing. It will always be. 50 years from now there will be people talking about how the moon landing was stages and people talking about how Barry was the first president not born in the US.
Producing his long form birth certificate might make you happy scott, but can you honestly believe that would qwell all the birthers right then and there? I think looking at history you have to conclude that of course it wouldn't. Most of the birthers do not even believe in the validity of the first certificate, why would the believe another one? What would be next? They need hospital records released? They need sworn testimony of witnesses to the birth? They need to supoena the newspapers that issued the announcements? I understand your reason for wanting to see the long form is there might be some kind of paternal issue but the real birther movement is different.
All he has to do is show is
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 12:29 ET by dscottAll he has to do is show is long form birth certificate, issue done, now if that doesn't make me a "birther" then you need to acknowledge that fact that I am not a "birther". I demand the facts and I reserve judgment based upon the facts. The fact is when someone goes out of their way to hide something, that means there is a problem, what problem that might be is relevant to WE the People. I demand Transparency of the man who proclaims to do so. So what's Obama problem? He made it a problem when he decided to withhold information. It's the appearance of impropriety which destroys his credibility as President. I don't trust someone who lies, and deliberate omission is lying.
I'm not buying this nonsense he doesn't have a long form BC. Long forms were issued by Hawaii well into the 80s, that's an undeniable fact. That means being born in 61 he had to have one to get a drivers license in Hawaii at age 18 (1979), a social security card (in the 70s for his mother to claim him as a dependent on the tax return) and also a passport (requires BC and SS card) by the time he started his traveling abroad.
Tell the COWARD to show it and be man enough to let the chips fall where they may.
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
You, dscott, is definitely
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 13:11 ET by bedmondsonYou, dscott, are definitely not a birther.
Your concerns are more ligitamite than the main stream of this debate. Either way he has done everything legally he must do and if you don't believe that than I would say you are a semi-birther. It definitely is not transparent but then again are we not having fun?
I can't wait for the "deather" debate!
Now if you are interested
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 15:53 ET by dscottNow if you are interested in the real issues, read here: http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2009/07/obamas_birth_certificate_and...
Not covered specifically by the article but alluded to is if rObama's step father, an Indonesian citizen adopted Barry aka Barack, there are substantive issues. Such as, during this time period of the late 50's and early 60's, the birth certificate was altered by the the State Vital Statistics Bureau to reflect the new father. This was how adoptions were handled at the time. Now it could be Obama does not want to show his long form because it reflects Lolo Soretoro (Sotero) as his father. If this is the case then he has a legal problem, because under Indonesian law he is an Indonesian citizen. IF and that's a big IF Obama traveled under Indonesian passport at any point over the age of 18 then he forfeited his US Citizenship because to do so is to renounce it.
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
(oops, double posted. how
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 10:58 ET by bedmondson(oops, double posted. how do you delete a post?)
dscott:
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 14:42 ET by SickofLibsTo back up your assertion, I just placed an announcement in my local paper stating Goldbar was born yesterday.
Should be in Sunday's issue; I'll post the link when it's available.
SickofLibs (Baby Goldbar)...
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 14:47 ET by Georgia GirlThat is hysterical! LOL.
I'm laughing with you
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 14:51 ET by bigtimerI'm laughing with you GG...that was a good one!
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
I'm still laughing...
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 14:59 ET by Georgia GirlCan't wait to read how much Baby Goldbar weighs! ^_^
He's right though -- info on births/deaths are usually handled over the phone (or by email or fax) at most newspapers. They may call or email if some info is missing, but it's not like they fact-check it. That aspect is easy enough.
"Weighing 0.7 ounces Avoirdupois
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 15:05 ET by SickofLibs"Weighing 0.7 ounces Avoirdupois, the nugget's birthplace was listed as a loading dock at Fort Knox."
0.7 ouces Avoirdupois!
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 18:14 ET by RukusProbably less than that SoL! Goldfarts (h/t JWF) are probably negative weight! Farts float don'cha know. Juz sayin'. : )
Gary
Hey, Jimmah Che Obama! I want my country back!
'Lil Nugget'
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 15:00 ET by SickofLibsNo J&J baby powder, please, ONLY jewelry cleaner on those delicate areas.
SOL~
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 15:05 ET by Georgia GirlYou're slaying me! LOL.
Best laugh all day.:)
Hang with me babe, I'm not done yet!
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 15:07 ET by SickofLibsHang with me babe, I'm not done yet!
Can we send him in
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 18:16 ET by Rukusto one of those $$$ for gold places? Should be worth something! : )
Gary
Hey, Jimmah Che Obama! I want my country back!
Ouch! You're on a roll
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 15:05 ET by bigtimerOuch!
You're on a roll today SoL.
I'm in that kind of a mood too....you get to a point where you have to laugh to keep your sanity with what the govt. is doing to us, let alone the usual trollsters.
Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea. ~Andrew Breitbart
Damn, that was fast... the birth announcement came out already!
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 15:31 ET by SickofLibsFORT KNOX, KY: Aurie Goldbar, a son, born to Gram and Ingotella Goldbar on July 27, 2009. The family, recent immigrants from Johannesburg, SA, includes siblings Goldschläger, Caraticia and Placer. Mr. Gram Goldbar is employed as a certified standard weight at the Kentucky Bureau of Weights and Measures. Mrs. Ingotella Goldbar is freelance columnist for the Huffington Post, a popular online political website.
OK, I'm think I'm done now.
Keep up the great work!
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 16:15 ET by goldbarKeep up the great work! Don't stop believing! Let's carry the theme that Obama's not a U.S. citizen right into the 2012 campaign!
Once again, you guys are GREAT!!
Glad to have you onboard, Nugget!
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 16:36 ET by SickofLibsGlad to have you onboard, Nugget!
You guys really need to get
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 16:40 ET by goldbarYou guys really need to get every republican available on this birther train. Do it for me, you're beloved goldbar! Have meetings, just like the teabaggers did and get as much news coverage as you can, call your senators and congressmen. MAKE IT HAPPEN!
Once again, you guys are GREAT!
Nugget:
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 17:02 ET by SickofLibsOK, I feel sorry for your misplaced exuberance, so I'm going to let you in on a little secret:
The runaway train you think is the Nirther Express here @ NB is really like the Polar Express; it's virtually all CG. Most of us here (not all) just delight in seeing the T-Squad twist itself into ever more complex knots. Problem is, if you've done any rigging, retying that same simple knot over and again on top of itself is no better or stronger than the single original knot.
(And I sincerely hope my use of the @ does not summon The Prince of Darkness.)
Here's the obviously faked
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 18:01 ET by goldbarHere's the obviously faked announcement. See how they've chemically treated the paper to make it appear old. Those libs are tricky dicky.
http://whatreallyhappened.com/IMAGES/obama-1961-birth-announcement-from-honolulu-advertiser0000.gif
Question
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 18:57 ET by UnsaneIf a birth announcement in a newspaper carries the same weight as a birth certificate, then why does the State Department require a birth certificate (or naturalization certificate) when applying for a passport?
Rest assured, when it was time for me to get my passport, I had to send in my birth certificate...not an announcement of my birth from any of the three local papers of the time.
Once again, you are reaching.
I'm not buying that He is anything other than an American citizen...but maybe His Majesty The Shahinshah can do all of America a favor and release His birth certificate just to shut the Conspiro community the hell up.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
@DeRange'd:
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 21:55 ET by j. frank wilsonSetting up a silly argument just to knock it down is a weak way to discuss something, indeed.
Nobody claimed or otherwise suggested "...a birth announcement in a newspaper carries the same weight as a birth certificate..."
As the "Red Dress Lady" said at Rep. Cassidy's Town Hall Meeting, "Why are you people ignoring his birth certificate?"
@the illiterate sycophant:
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 08:33 ET by Unsanefrankie, you stuck your nose in an argument and are about to get it slapped.
plumbumbar is most certainly suggesting, via his link, that the newspaper announcement in the Honolulu paper settles it. Therefore, he is suggesting that an announcement in the newspaper carries the same weight as the birth certificate itself.
To wit, here is a post of his, further up: And the newspaper's birth announcement is fake too, I suppose? Sounds like to me he is giving the newspaper the same level of credence as the birth certificate.
You love to attack other people's literacy, and yet, you show me you can't read. The irony... (Stop "Frenching" your icon of His Majesty The Shahinshah and read the posts here, frankie.)
You are just enraged beyond belief that anyone would DARE question His Majesty The Shahinshah aren't you?
Oh, and just because you apparently cannot read, I will attempt to spell it out again: I'm not buying this, but I find it interesting that his birth certificate isn't released in order to silence the quite irritating Conspiro community. If He does this, I will back Him on this to show my sincere gratitude.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
I would again point out that
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 09:26 ET by SickofLibsI would again point out that no one has found or produced an actual 1961 newspaper page that could easily be proven authentic.
Even if this were a court case in a civil dispute, even the crappiest lawyer in the world could successfully argue that the "birth announcement" not to be entered into evidence.
@DeRange'd:
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 12:54 ET by j. frank wilsonThe operative word is "And." As in "additional." "More."
If he had used "Or" that would indicate an equivalence. Your "Sounds to me" is a weak attempt to bolster your classic Straw Man "argument."
Too much for you? No Moxie on the ball, either.
Many folks here have stated his parents "placed" the birth announcement(s) in the Honolulu papers. There's no evidence of that. It appears to me the newspaper(s) got this information directly from the hospitals. Otherwise, there would be more detail - such as weight, length (in inches) and time of birth.
@ His Majesty The Shahinshah's (or God's) personal gift to NB:
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 14:36 ET by UnsaneThe operative word is "And." As in "additional." "More." The operative words are everything that follows that. Announcements in newspapers do not mean a damn thing, frankie.
Is that too painful a concept for you to grasp?
When I applied for a passport, the State Department did not ask for an announcement in the newspaper of my birth. They asked for the birth certificate. Is this likewise too painful a concept for you to grasp?
Whenever I have been hired; the employer asks for a passport, a military ID, a driver's license, or a birth certificate, not an announcement in a newspaper of birth.
So, whine all you want about "and", but it's much ado about nothing.
There's no evidence of that. It appears to me the newspaper(s) got this information directly from the hospitals. Otherwise, there would be more detail - such as weight, length (in inches) and time of birth. Um, where the hell do you get that idea? People can put whatever they want in a birth announcement. Therefore, they are not bound to put such information in a birth announcement in a newspaper.
"there would be more detail" - more silly assumptions on your part.
frankie, isn't it amazing? You carry yourself on here as if you are His Majesty The Shahinshah's personal gift to NB. Yet, you seem totally incapable of debating ideas or issues. To hide your intellectual dishonesty, you attack everything not germane to the issue, insult and otherwise treat Rightists with immense hostility, talk down to people, and lay down lots of red herrings. Pathetic, wouldn't you say?
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
@DeRange'd:
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 21:46 ET by j. frank wilsonWell, reading the English language clearly isn't your forte. No one equated a birth certificate with a newspaper announcement.Apparently you confuse the NB boards with Twitter, assuming we are fascinated with the minutiae of your life.We're not.Neither is critical thinking your strong point.
Each of the birth announcements in the paper had precisely the same amount of information. This leads a logical person to suggest a common source. While it is possible "people can put whatever they want into a birth announcement" that obviously isn't the case here because they are identical.
As for the rest of your verbose post:
Blah.
Blah...
@ one of NB's very own Three Stooges
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 23:12 ET by UnsaneThank you for handing me yet another argument on a silver platter.
You simply cannot argue merits or ideas. You can only insult, ridicule, be a smartass, and project your own failings onto people. Yeah, a guy who worships a mere politician as though He is Christ Himself tells me "critical thinking is not your strong point"? I'd worry about your own critical thinking skills, frankie, before running around scolding and lecturing other people on theirs. Contradictions have a nasty habit of collapsing.
Any cliche involving glass houses will do.
Apparently you have your own issues with the English language you project onto others. Really, it is best to admit your own failing and take responsibility for them so you can actually do something to correct them. Cacciato/Leon and plumbumbar - the other two Stooges here - specifically pointed to birth announcements in the newspaper as evidence. I even quoted for your where plumbumbar did this, and all you can do in rebuttal was whine over "and". Since I shot that down, all you can do is attack my literacy, which only causes me to question your own. But this is typical frankie - frankie will get his ass kicked everytime on substance, so attacks everything else instead. frankie dares not address the merits of the case.
Apparently you confuse the NB boards with Twitter, assuming we are fascinated with the minutiae of your life. frankie, if you don't like the fact I am giving real-life examples as evidence of what I seen, you are cordially invited to stop reading my posts. (But if anything, you'll just be missing out. You might learn something...if anything, you will learn how to confront English as conveyed in Latin letters.) If people are fascinated by the minutiae of my life...that is the point I get deeply worried. As an aside, did I mention I was once memorably asked by a friend of mine some years ago "you really, honestly do not care what other people think of you?" I laughed. "No, not really. Never have. Never will."
You think you're special, frankie? You think I am going to tailor my writing style for you? If I don't do that for anyone else, what makes you think I'm going to do it for you?
The last thing that enters into consideration when I type is what you do and don't like to read. And by the way, I don't do Twitter.
And as for the rest of your petulant "blah, blah" at the end...pop some more Ritalin, or otherwise do something about that pathetic attention span of yours. Again, you might learn something.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
@DeRange'd:
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 09:02 ET by j. frank wilsonThe only thing you've shot is yourself. In the foot.
You propped up a straw man and knocked him down like a champ! What's next - are you going to take on the stick man?
Regarding the newspaper announcements of Mr. Obama's Hawaiian birth, it has been assumed by many people here at NB - and elsewhere - that these were "placed" by the parents.
I suggested the data may have come from public records, based on the identical format of each entry and the lack of any personal information. And, of course, the column head in the Advertiser: "Health Bureau Statistics." Gee, Sherlock, could that be a hint as to the data source?
Take a look at the newspaper lists that announced Mr. Obama's birth - the Star Bulletin and the Sunday Advertiser.
The lists are not in alpha or chronological order. Yet both lists are remarkably similar - not identical, but overwhelmingly in the same order.
I'll make is easy for you, since you obviously need all the help you can get. Here are the copies of the pages in question:
http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/obamabirth.php
How can this be? Two competing newspaper published what amount to the same list? The obvious answer is a common source for the information - and that would not be the individual parents.
It would be the Health Bureau, collecting the information from each hospital in the area. That is why there isn't any obvious order to the list(s).
Are we going to fast for you here? Should I type more slowly?
"Nobody claimed or otherwise suggested"
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 08:40 ET by SickofLibsWrong. Cacciato did.
It's Plank 2 of his two-part "thorough debunking" platform.
SoL, I never claimed
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 14:24 ET by CacciatoSoL,
I never claimed that, I simply stated that the birth announcement in tandem with all of the other evidence, lends weight to the FACT that Obama was born in America.
I have clearly listed all Birther lunacy (aka what they call 'facts') in a post on this thread and why they have been debunked (see Pakistan travel myth, stepgrandmother myth, and maj cook myth for further details)
Cacc, leaving out the birth
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 14:46 ET by SickofLibsCacc, leaving out the birth announcement, what is "all the other evidence" you mention? There is no other evidence except for the reissued BC. If you have something further, please tell us. You have so convinced yourself though, that you are fantasizing all this non-existent "proof."
To your point: debunking birther claims is a sideline issue and has nothing to do with bolstering the case - again, if the Hawaii official saw other supporting documents as she claims, why in hell would they not release them and finally put a fork in this?
The answer is he was lying about something he does not want to get out. What other possible motivation could there be?
And I do not believe he was born in Kenya.
Nugget: wassup?
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 08:43 ET by SickofLibsWe're still waiting for "all the other evidence".
Cacciato...FACT - Obama's father was a British citizen.
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 19:55 ET by DJEddleFACT: Obama's father was a British citizen.
Do you care to dispute that? Is that more "birther lunacy"?
FACT: At the time of his birth, Barack Hussein Obama's (the man acting as president) citizenship was governed by British law.
This was admitted by Obama's very own campaign website during the election cycle.
FACT: A person born in the United States can still be born a citizen of another country.
FACT: If one is born a citizen of a country that is not the one in which they were physically present in at the time of birth, then at best, they could only be a "dual citizen."
A "natural born citizen" can only be a citizen of the country in which they were born and of parents who were citizens of that country. Why? Because "natural" born citizenship is just that: natural. It is outside the scope of societal law and cannot be "granted" by any government, nor taken away. Read up on natural law theory and how it influenced our Constitution.
FACT: Barack Hussein Obama was not, is not, and can never be a "natural born citizen."
FACT: Only a "natural born citizen" can become President of the United States.
FACT: Barack Hussein Obama is an usurper to the federal executive.
If you need more information about United States citizenship, then read this essay:
Thoughts on United States Citizenship
FACT: It's a long essay, but even a monkey should be able to comprehend it.
Do you care to try to debunk any of these facts using reason, and maybe even some indisputable facts of your own?
Rational Liberty: Where Reason and Government Collide - The best website ever!
Unsane,Obama could have
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 14:39 ET by NL207Unsane,
Obama could have been born in Hawaii and still not be a natural born citizen.
What is a 'natural born citizen'? As far as I know, no Court has ever considered the matter with respect to the qualifications to be President. I think it requires more than a mere birth on American soil. Several of the terrorists we have siezed are Arab Muslims born on American soil. According to the J Frank Wilson School of Government, these terrorists are qualified to be President of the United States by virtue of birth on American soil.
I do not think the Founders intended that only place of birth be used to determine 'natural born citizenship'. For example, I am certain that the Founders would not have considered Sioux Chief Sitting Bull a natural born citizen despite his birth in what was a US Territory in 1831. I think the Founders intended that the President had to have an upbringing consistent with the prevailing culture of the Unitede States. Moreover, the President must also not have renounced US citizenship by deed or word.
Bringing us to Obama. He was most certainly NOT raised within the prevailing cultuire of the US and there are many questions about whether, by word or by deed, did he renounce or cloud his US Citizenship by, for example, claiming dual citizenship or accepting naturalization of a foreign country.
Some pennies for thought
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 16:19 ET by UnsaneI think the Founders intended that the President had to have an upbringing consistent with the prevailing culture of the Unitede States. And this is why being born in the United States - or being born to one or more American citizens - is not enough toi qualify for the Presidency. Then there is the matter of residing in the country for 14 years.
When one is born on U.S. soil, that alone is enough to qualify for U.S. citizenship under the law.
Whatever the Founders thought - I won't speculate on, unless I am willing to spend some good quality archive time researching the matter, which right now I don't have, as I am raiding other archives for other reasons.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
"When one is born on U.S.
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 00:03 ET by NL207"When one is born on U.S. soil, that alone is enough to qualify for U.S. citizenship under the law."
No it is not. The immigration law sets out conditions by which one may forfeit or renounce citizenship. One of these conditions is naturalization in a foreign country. If Obama did indeed use an Indonesian passport for tyravel after the age of 18, he may have legally renounced any claims he had to US Citizenship.
Some clarification
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 00:35 ET by UnsaneNo it is not. The immigration law sets out conditions by which one may forfeit or renounce citizenship. One of these conditions is naturalization in a foreign country. I understand that part completely. I was talking about birth, and only birth; what that individual does with his/her citizenship beyond is up to him/her. Indeed, if you got a passport, it lists ways to renounce U.S. citizenship.
For instance, my older sister isn't German, and she was born in Germany. She's every bit the American I am under the law. (And she hasn't done anything to change that status...at least as far as I know.)
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
Nugget: "Here's an image on the web, must be genuine"
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 07:24 ET by SickofLibsDo you you believe Fiji Mermaids and Chupacabras are real too, just because there are images of them on the web?
Oh please, "treated to appear old"? It's a simple grayscale image originating from microfiche. It proves nothing. Now if someone, ANYONE, could produce an actual 1961 newspaper page, that would be the game changer. But, alas, no luck, and it's not as if there aren't thousands of people searching for one. Perhaps one will turn up one day stuffed in a jar in a cave near the Dead Sea.
Or Obama could just authorize the release of all the documents and stick a fork in this once and for all.
Goldbar...
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 18:54 ET by Georgia GirlThat's such a transparent tactic and very simplistic. It's right up there with attacking Sarah Palin because she is so "ridiculous" (which is what some will scream at the top of their lungs, as they continue to obsess about her)...and there's only one sane reason for doing that. And that's the same type of tactic as saying over and over again how the Republican party is falling apart and obsessing on that -- instead of focusing on your own party's issues. The Right side is actually gaining more strength and organization. There is always dissent on some issues in both parties -- nothing at all different on your side of the aisle, but you pump it up for only one reason. The Republican party will pull together to get Obama out of office. However, the underlying force will be the entire conservative movement. That is where the strength of will is coming from, and there is no fear to fight against this socialist agenda -- and there is an abundance of talent, intelligence and resourcefulness available. Honestly, the big issue for many on the Right when it comes to the 2012 election is if Acorn and Co. is in operation enough to steal votes. Otherwise, it's looking good. The veil is being lifted.
As for the birth issue, I think you're missing the entire point. It is about distrusting a guy with flimsy character, who hides and ducks and weaves. Is anybody capable of lying, cheating and stealing? Absolutely. Can someone fake citizenship? Sure, there's always a way to do something deceptive. Did he? No idea. But what matters is that it is believable to many that he would be capable of something like that -- because of his character as a person and how he tries to control everything and hide himself every step of the way.
Obama doesn't want Americans to get too close of a look at him. He never has, in case you didn't notice. He tries to erase his history...hardly ever answers a question specifically...is a totally different person than some thought they were getting when they voted him in. Underneath all the eloquence coming from his teleprompter, there's truth to uncover about him. A clue on who he is? He rushes everything through as quickly as possible, knowing it won't hold up to scrutiny -- economic stimulus...cap and trade...healthcare...himself.
There's nothing kooky about paying attention to the facts and not being naive...observing what someone says and then what they do or what transpires...and being able to read people wisely. And that's where many people are coming from who have doubts on the citizenship issue. Add the lapdog media into the picture & no balances in D.C., and there's hardly any checks on this guy. But some will dig for the answers -- and they have every right to ask the questions.
Double G,There is
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 07:17 ET by CacciatoDouble G,
There is nothing kooky about paying attention to the facts, but that's the problem with the Birthers. They don't pay attention to facts.
They'll use any 'evidence' no matter how thoroughly debunked and when one of their claims is proved wrong, they'll simply move on to the next one, for example:
Claim #1: Well Obama must not be a US citizen because he traveled to Pakistan in 1981 meaning he must have had a foreign passport since Pakistan was on the State Depts. banned travel list
FALSE - it was not on the State Dept. List in 1981
NEXT!
2) Obama's step-grandmother said he was born in Kenya according to Liddy
FALSE - this argument was based on an inaccurate translation
NEXT!
3) Well, well the army withdrew Maj. Cook's orders b/c they don't think Obama has the authority to send him b/c he's foreign born and not legitimately President.
FALSE - they withdrew Cook's orders b/c he's a volunteer and it's his right to request a change at any time.
and so on and so on...
It's so sad that it's funny. I love it and I hope Lou Dobbs keeps stirring the nuts, because all they're doing is distracting America from what's really going on. Obama is having a tough time in office and instead of focusing on his tangible short comings and exploiting them for future elections, the Right's Base is cheering for Palin Quitting and Crying about Obama's Birth Certificate.
Great strategy!
Cacciato~
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 07:39 ET by Georgia GirlWell, you may be a little overly hopeful about the "distraction" aspect. I don't think it's distracting Americans. They are perfectly capable of multi-tasking and retaining all kinds of information without something flying out of their brains. And anything that is possibly negative on Obama (whether it's proven or just feelings on him) is just thrown into the mix. It's like being in a movie theater and somebody comes in late to sit down. You notice someone came in, but it's not like you can't continue watching the movie or you miss anything.
Along with that, some think Obama having those beers at the White House is a distraction as well. I don't think that's a distraction either (people are paying close attention to heathcare, and they aren't going to suddenly go: "oh my gosh -- this beer thing has thrown me -- what were we talking about?)...but I do think it's a negative reminder of the Gates thing.
Cacciato channels Clarence Darrow in summary, fails
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 07:53 ET by SickofLibsA reissued BC and an internet image of a newspaper page... that's your standard of thoroughly debunked? It's actually half-ass debunked, as thoroughly debunked must include the release of ALL documents, PLURAL, notably the ones that the Hawaii official alleges she saw in addition to the reissued BC. What is so difficult about this concept that you guys don't get... he is obviously hiding something, and we want to know what it is. And I do believe he is a US citizen.
PS: Obama "is having a tough time in office" because the public is finally waking up to the realization that - 1) he is so far out of his league it's not even funny anymore; 2) he is a dangerous despot with an agenda to radically change, against it's will, the country and economy that is the envy of the world (unless you're an islamist, of course).
Cacciato is making stuff up whole now.
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 08:02 ET by JWFA normal U.S citizen could not get one of those 30 day visa's in 1981. At that time they only gave them to press, diplomats and their “guests”, and direct relatives only. They were very leary of any American so very few got visa’s.
So you're saying that
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 08:09 ET by SickofLibsSo you're saying that children of ex-pat American hippies were not on that list?
Claim #1, just like a
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 08:21 ET by dscottClaim #1, just like a typical lib you deliberately use a false version of the claim as a straw man argument to knock it down.
Here's where you went wrong, the claim not that Indonesia was on some banned list. The claim is BARRY SOTERO TRAVELED UNDER INDONESIAN PASSPAST OVER THE AGE OF 18 (AGE OF MAJORITY) AND THUS RENOUNCED HIS CITIZENSHIP BY DOING SO! You can not use the passport of another country if you are an American Citizen, if you do, you are renouncing your citizenship by declaring yourself the citizen of another country. There was no duel citizenship allowed by either country at the time.
I could care less about the other stuff, show the long form birth certicate and give a truthful account whether or not he traveled using another country's passport. We the People are entitled to know this information.
Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid, starving the poor one gallon of ethanol at a time. Fill your tank with E85 and cull a village.
dscott,I didn't use a
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 14:27 ET by Cacciatodscott,
I didn't use a false version of a Birther myth in my claim #1.
The claim I reference is clearly made on this thread by kilrod. I never even said Indonesia, I said Pakistan. What exactly were you reading? Very bizarre.
Q: Is it possible that Obama traveled with a U.S. Passport in 1981?A: No. It is not possible. Pakistan was on the U.S. State Department's "no travel" list in 1981.
FULL NUTTY POST HERE
See above. Sorry pal but your whole post was a waste of time.
He was observing that if
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 15:26 ET by NL207He was observing that if Obama was traveling under an Indonesian passport, regardless of destination, over the age of 18, he was declaring Indonesian citizenship.
Oh please, you can't even
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 08:22 ET by Jack BauerOh please, you can't even expound your own thoughts.
You just stole that analysis from my post above.
Except MY comment makes sense in context. Your comment does not.
Jack, What are you
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 14:28 ET by CacciatoJack,
What are you talking about? I stole your analysis?
Whoa somebody's got a big head.
I made an obvious claim and you're trying to take credit for it?
Kind of sad and weird. Is everything ok over there?
New Article!
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 18:02 ET by slickwillie2001Here's a well-written roundup of all of the possible ways that the Bamster might not meet the qualifications of the Constitution:
Obama and the 'Birther' Controversy: http://joshuapundit.blogspot.com
@slickwillie2001:
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 18:09 ET by j. frank wilsonThe previous article you linked to was much better. It had facts in it.
This one is full of stuff that is just made up. Please compare this piece with the article you previously linked. I can't even call it a joke because it isn't funny.
The author of this blog couldn't even get the story straight about Maj. Cook's lawsuit. The US Army withdrew his orders to go to Afghanistan because he was a volunteer and had the right to request a change any time he wanted. It's just that simple - and fully in the public record.
Here's the question no one at NB has yet to answer about Maj. Cook, however. Did another soldier to into a combat zone, on very short notice, because he wanted to "set-up" his little lawsuit?
Re Major Cook
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 18:42 ET by slickwillie2001Did Major Cook volunteer to go to Afghanistan only so he could set up a court challenge to the Bamster? Maybe, what does it matter?
When Rosa Parks got on the bus, she was looking for a confrontation to make her case. She was an activist. Does that make her effort any less noble? Of course not.
Goldbar...
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 19:08 ET by Georgia GirlBefore signing off for the night, I want to say that unlike you, I see Obama's character quite clearly... but then, I wasn't born yesterday.
Bahahahaha!
[Sorry. It was just sitting there waiting to be said. Thanks for the canned joke for me, SoL] :)
LOL - You go, girl!
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 07:01 ET by SickofLibsLOL - You go, girl!
slickwillie2001:
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 21:22 ET by j. frank wilsonActually, that is not a correct statement of what happened. Mrs. Parks was not "looking for a confrontation to make her case."
But that is besides the point.
One more time: The point is, Maj. Cook (in my opinion) volunteered for service in Afghanistan, with no intention of actually going. He did it to set-up the lawsuit.
As I recall it, Rosa Parks was going home from work.
Anyway: Did another soldier, on very short notice, get orders to go to Afghanistan in Maj. Cooks place?
If the answer is "Yes" - then that's what matters!
Point?
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 21:41 ET by UnsaneSuddenly, frankie deeply cares about the military.
frankie, if a soldier goes down the street in a motorcycle without a helmet and winds up in an accident and gets himself killed (for example), another soldier will get orders, on very short notice, to go where the deceased was supposed to go. It happens all the time.
What's your point? Besides attacking everything in this case except what is germane to the case, that is.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
@DeRange'd:
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 22:00 ET by j. frank wilsonMy point was clearly stated.
My concern for the US military isn't sudden - but I wouldn't expect you to understand that.
Read my post again. S-l-o-w-l-y. It really is quite clear - and there aren't any big words.
You'll figure it out, I'm sure...
Scorecard
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 22:04 ET by Free StinkerUnsane: 1
J.Frank Moonbat: 0
(Meltdown, ETA 2 minutes)
@ poor frankie:
Tue, 07/28/2009 - 22:16 ET by UnsaneYour concern for the military is VERY sudden. I'm guessing it has some small thing to do with your worship of His Majesty The Shahinshah.
Your point was not clearly stated.
Note you also convieniently missed my example of people in the military getting short-notice deployments for all sorts of reasons, such as the example I posited.
And of course, because you are losing the argument, and you can feel it slipping from your grasp, you have to start talking down to me and otherwise be a smartass. Now, let's try again, frankie:
Other than the fact that you attack, attack, attack anything and everything but the merits of the case, what is your point?
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
goldbar says stop with the silly conspiracy talk right now.
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 06:13 ET by JWFLies! It is all lies. It detracts from our beloved Democrat President. We need to get back to the real true stuff about Republicans right now! You know like -
Bush Lied, Babies died!
goldbar: Soros had to do a "study" to find out if Bush lied? I guess he is more stupid than I thought.
McCain said we would stay in Iraq 100 years!
goldbar: ...the left doesn't like McCain--he wants to stay in Iraq for 100 years!
The Bush/Nazi connection!
goldbar: ...a legacy built on trading with the enemy as W's grandfather Prescott Bush did during WWII?
goldbar: How ironic seeing as the Bush family are Nazi appeasers.
Tom Ridge faked security alerts!
goldbar: You mean like the phony Homeland Security alerts that Tom Ridge put out?
7 years of Bush fear!
goldbar: I've had seven years of fear under Bush and am ready to try something else.
Karl Rove conspired to destroy a Governor!
goldbar: Why wouldn't Rove answer the subpoena? If this was all made up stuff wouldn't turdblossom want to defend himself?
George Bush hid his military records!
goldbar: What's George W. Bush hiding? His military records seem to have vanished into thin air.
goldbar: As long as we're talking military records...what ever happened to Bush's military records.
It was Bush's fault Hamas was elected!
goldbar: Hamas was elected because Bush was pushing for "free and fair" elections throughout the Middle East.
Reagan sold Iran nukes out of the back of his van!
goldbar: Reagan not only negotiated with Iran, but sold them weapons!
The Chinese are slant drilling and stealing our oil!
goldbar: The Chinese are already off the coast of Cuba and slant drilling into our territory, but nobody seems to care.
McCain. Keating 5. McCain. Keating 5. Lather. Rinse. Repeat.
goldbar: Then let's all take a good look at McCain's role in the Keating Five
goldbar: Why not ask McCain about the Keating Five? Now there's some serious bribery.
New Orleans residents were forced back into flooded areas at gunpoint!
goldbar: The difference is in Iowa the residents weren't driven back into the devastation at gunpoint by the National Guard.
goldbar: They (Iowans) weren't driven back at gunpoint into the flooded area.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Priceless JWF
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 15:51 ET by general companyI remember most of those post, what a hypicritical species he is
My Gov. thinks I am dangerous, so be careful
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
the "birthers" are they are
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 01:38 ET by NonArabOmarthe "birthers," as they are called, have LEGITIMATE questions.
If it were up to liberals, they'd be fine with a villager straight from Mongolia that didn't speak a lick of english as long as he was an ultra socialist.
We really can't take the Democrats word for it.
Obama was a real jetsetter. He was bouncing around hemispheres as a kid. His mom liked to travel. So... what the hell is wrong with questionning his birthplace.
At least Napoleon's birthplace was known to be Corsica, the only question was whether or not France had taken it from the Italians before Napoleon was born.
Hell. we don't know if Obama was even born in the same continent or hemisphere of the country he is president in. Obama should call a press conference and just prove all these allegations.
But conspiracy theories
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 03:05 ET by RR GOPBut conspiracy theories like Bush lying about Iraqi WMD, Bush spiriting Bin Laden's family out of the states just after 9/11, Cheney not allowing Congress to be informed on security matters, and the CIA lying to Queen Pelosi are all just soooo much more worthy...of course.
One of the 34% who thinks George W. Bush was a great President. One of the 61% who wants to bring back the stock and pillory (yep...approval for Congress now at 39%...do you believe that!?).
This is all hilarious --
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 05:24 ET by Jack BauerThis is all hilarious -- and for the right reasons.
There's nothing I find more satisfying than watching ANGRY WHITE LIBERALS shaking their tiny fists and working themselves up into a lather.
There's an oddness about Obama's birth that the man could settle tomorrow by ordering the opening of the vault to inspect the original document. But he hasn't so far.
That's never going to happen. And if it did, and it proved the skeptics right, he would NEVER be removed from office.
So what? I like the Saul Alinsky model. It's a small sore, let's just keep scratching it. Just one of the background issues that gets people saying, "hell yeah, what's up with that birth certificate anyway". It seeds more doubt against the man with those who don't follow the minutia of politics. It's out there as a vague unsetting thought..
Just see how such a relatively small amount of blogger agitation gets the left going. It's a good investment. It distracts them, it really gets under their skin that people mock their cult.
I really hope the Obama drones spend the next three years "fighting back" about this. Bring it on as its fine by me.
Bam! Pow! Smack! Boom! Whack! Foosh! Kerblammo! OMG! LOL! LOLOL!
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 06:24 ET by JWFWhat is this?
McCain wasn't born in this
July 3, 2008 - 18:04 ET by goldbar
McCain wasn't born in this country and has not been able to provide a copy of his birth certificate.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
JWF -- Calling Mr
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 07:15 ET by Jack BauerJWF -- Calling Mr Moldbar... great find my friend!
Hil-frackin-larious.
JWF...
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 07:45 ET by Georgia GirlYou found Gold. ^_^
J frank wilson thinks McCain should have been disqualified.
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 10:55 ET by JWFMcCain's Panamanian Birth
February 28, 2008 - 16:41 ET by j. frank wilson
For the past several years the Bush Administration has claimed Gitmo is not US soil - and that US laws (such as our Constitution) don't apply there. Are some military bases part of the US and others not?
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
@JWF:
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 13:01 ET by j. frank wilsonYou missed the point. The Bush Administration did their best to make up laws as they went along - and didn't realize the unintended consequences of such reckless acts.
I never suggested Sen. McCain was not a "natural-born citizen" of the United States. Besides, since the US Congress settled that by what I would consider to be a private bill, it's moot.
As, of course, is President Obama's citizenship.
@ the sycophant
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 14:24 ET by UnsaneYou missed the point. The Bush Administration did their best to make up laws as they went along - and didn't realize the unintended consequences of such reckless acts. Like what?
Besides, since the US Congress settled that by what I would consider to be a private bill, it's moot. Actually, as a birth of a child by one or more U.S. citizens qualifies for citizenship, that argument was already absurd. I have an older sister who was born in Germany but she sure as all hell is not German, especially considering that both her parents are American citizens.
How is that 2000 foot tall gold statue of His Majesty The Shahinshah coming along, frankie? Are you going to design it so that He faces the sun as it moves across the sky? And will He be given a contemplative, thoughtful look, or are you going to go with that hot, beautiful smile of His that so excites you on countless levels?
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
@De'Range'd:
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 21:55 ET by j. frank wilsonWell, like the claim that Gitmo is not "US soil." Or placing a US citizen in prison without a trial. Or...well, the list goes on and on.
If Mr. McCain's status as a natural-born citizen was not in question, why did Congress pass the private bill that stated he was?
You've mastered the cut & paste function. Help us all out and work on "delete."
j frank wilson is still arguing McCain is not eligible.
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 23:32 ET by JWFj frank wilson:
You claim "When McCain BC and citizenship came up he cleared it up."
Nope. It was done for him by his friends in the United States Senate.
j frank wilson: If Mr. McCain's status as a natural-born citizen was not in question, why did Congress pass the private bill that stated he was?
What the hell is a private bill? Anyone? Does this idiot have a clue?
The Senate passed a resolution you friggin idiot. S. Res. 511.
A resolution does nothing to change the law. Nothing.
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=sr110-511
Wow, Senators, thanks for that. I recognise J Frank Wilson has butt warts. Are they cured now? No. Seeing as how McCain was already legally a natural born citizen and this resolution had no power to change that, this was worthless.
Why is J Frank Wilson coming here and continuing to push all the Bush era lies and innuendo while complaining about the Obama birth certificate issue? Just like his buddy goldbar, but at least goldbar had the common sense not to actually push old lies while trying to dispel a current lie.
George Bush hid is military records.
j frank wilson: How about George Bush's final DD-214? And other records of his military service.
Bush stole the election in 2000
j frank wilson: Then's there's George Bush's election - when the rules for voting in the State of Florida were appealed to the US Supreme Court. That was a first. And the Court ruled its decision could not be used as a precedent?
The Executive branch is making laws as opposed to the Legislative branch (congress)
j frank wilson: The Bush Administration did their best to make up laws as they went along
U.S. Law does not apply to Gitmo
j frank wilson: Well, like the claim that Gitmo is not "US soil."
Bush holding U.S citizens without trial
j frank wilson: placing a US citizen in prison without a trial.
Huh?
j frank wilson: their idea of solving the health care mess was to pass a law that poor Terry Shavio was still alive.
Yes you did, twice on this very page, liar.
j frank wilson: I never suggested Sen. McCain was not a "natural-born citizen" of the United States.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
@JWF:
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 09:19 ET by j. frank wilson"What the hell is a private bill?"
The Internets have this "Google" thing you should check out sometime. It's slick!
Private bills
While many people look to Congress for help with personal problems, sometimes such assistance must be approved by the entire Congress in the form of a bill. Your representative or lawyer can tell you whether that will be the case with any proposal you may make.
The use of private bills has declined considerably. For example, in the 96th Congress (from 1979-1981), 123 private bills were passed, but by the 104th Congress (from 1995-1997), the number had dropped to only 4.
Members are leery of private bills because they have the potential for creating trouble for the member if it turns out that the beneficiary doesn't have the cleanest record.
In the past, private bills were mostly used to assist people who had a grievance or demand on the executive branch. Moreover, the need for them has declined because today there are more ways to appeal to executive agencies than there were in the past.
Nonetheless, private bills are an option that usually fall into the following categories and go to the following House committees:
· Armed services decorations issues are handled by the National Security Committee.
· Civil service issues go to the Government Reform and Oversight Committee.
· Claims against the government. Domestic claims go to the Judiciary Committee; foreign claims go to the International Relations Committee.
· Immigration issues (for example, naturalization, residency status, and visa classification) go to the Judiciary Committee.
· Medical issues (for example, Food and Drug Administration approvals and health maintenance organization enrollment requirements) go to the Commerce Committee.
· Patents and copyright questions go to the Judiciary Committee.
· Public land issues (for example, sales, claims, exchanges, and mineral leases) go to the Resources Committee.
· Taxation issues (for example, income tax liabilities and tariff exemptions) go to the Ways and Means Committee.
· Vessel documentation issues go to the Transportation and Infrastructure Committee.
· Veterans' benefit issues go to the Veterans' Affairs Committee.
Private bills almost always are introduced only in the House since they deal with individuals and the House is the direct representative of the people (as opposed to the Senate, which represents states). If they get through subcommittee and committee consideration, they then move to the floor where all the private bills are considered together on the first and third Tuesdays of each month (although the House can decide to call them up at any other time when everyone agrees).
Private bills usually go sailing through and routinely are approved by a voice vote. However, whenever two members object to a private bill, it goes back to the committee for reconsideration or is held for further consideration until the next batch of private bills comes up.
from:
http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/building-a-bill-in-congress.html [really - this is too easy!]
I haven't "complained" about Mr. Obama's birth certificate. I have pointed out the facts of the matter. Considering your nutty position, I don't really blame you for not liking the truth. I'm sure you're doing the best you can...
Hey idiot. Hey everyone look at this idiot trying to school me.
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 11:10 ET by JWFIt was a Senate Resolution idiot. I posted the exact Senate Resolution and linked to it. Private Bills say Private Bill right in the title.
That was the third time you made a McCain birther post. You are a McCain birther that came here to complain about Obama birthers.
I noticed you somehow missed all of the lies you made about Bush in your eagerness to be wrong about the private bill again.
Oh, while you were whining about the McCain Resolution, the House passed one for Obama.
http://www.starbulletin.com/news/20090728_us_house_on_record_in_birth_flap.html
Of course I posted about this 2 days ago here on this very page
JWF: 17 Frankie-Poo:
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 11:36 ET by Roger the ShrubberJWF: 17
Frankie-Poo: 0
@ one to NB's very own Three Stooges:
Wed, 07/29/2009 - 23:24 ET by UnsaneGitmo isn't U.S. soil. Nor is, say, Landstuhl, or Ramstein, or Yongsan, or Yokota. You have a lot to learn about such things.
If Mr. McCain's status as a natural-born citizen was not in question, why did Congress pass the private bill that stated he was? Hell, why did the Senate proclaim the Rev. Moon of the Unification Church as the Messiah in March 2005? Why did the Texas Legislature pass a resolution praising one Mr. DeSalvi's contributions to psychology? Why is Congress wanting to vote on legislation that they have not even read?
Too bad, frankie. McCain could have been born anywhere on earth and it wouldn't have mattered. He was born to two U.S. citizens, and thus he was a U.S. citizen.
You are going to whine and cry and throw tantrums about me talking about the "minutiae of my life", but you asked for it. My older sister was born under similar circumstances, and the law considers her a natural-born U.S. citizen. There are quite a few people who post here regularly who have had similar experiences. Maybe you ought to descend from that ivory tower of yours and hang out with some of the little people. Especially military brats who apparently know a hell of a lot more about immigration law than the 535 members of Congress, and even you.
You've mastered the cut & paste function. Help us all out and work on "delete." Translation: "I can't compete with your arguments and ideas, Unsane. Just SHUT UP!!!" And what's this? "Help us all out"? Suddenly you are the spokesperson for ALL on NB?
Once again, frankie, I'm not going anywhere. I will remain at the pleasure of NB, not yours. If you can't handle reading my posts, then you are cordially invited to not read them, or maybe just go to another website.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
@DeRange'd:
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 10:54 ET by j. frank wilsonTypically, attempting to prop up a weak position, you quote half a statement.
The Bush Admnistration claimed Gitmo is not US soil "and therefore US laws do not apply there."
No US law on a military base? That's novel position, isn't it?
Bush was right, US law does
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 11:00 ET by MightyMouthBush was right, US law does not apply there, Military Law does!! There is a big difference. If you had served your country you would know that Franko.
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
@MightyMouth:
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 12:42 ET by j. frank wilsonUS Military law isn't "US law?" What is it - United Nations?
I already explained why you
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 12:52 ET by MightyMouthI already explained why you don't understand the difference!
"There are two types of people in this country; those who provide freedom and those who enjoy it." MM says...
@ one of NB's very own Three Stooges:
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 11:21 ET by UnsaneTypically, attempting to prop up a weak position, you word game.
U.S. civilian laws don't apply...don't believe me? Check out what a SOFA is. On installations on foreign soil, foreign law applies, under a SOFA. In instances when foreign laws do not apply, you reference the UCMJ.
"CONSUMED DEMOCRACY RETURNS A SOCIALIST REGIME" - Slayer, "Fictional Reality", from Divine Intervention (1994)
"The Bush Administration
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 18:49 ET by NL207"The Bush Administration did their best to make up laws as they went along"
Please illuminate. What laws did Bush make up that were not enacted by Congress?
Link or slink.
goldbar is a lying partisan hack and here is the proof
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 05:00 ET by JWFgoldbar is a lying partisan hack and here is the proof
Wait a tic! What is this? Slammo! Bam! Ouch! Holy Moly!
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 06:18 ET by JWFForget McCain & Obama's birth certificate! Let's see Bobby Jindal's!
goldbar: I think the real question here is why hasn't anyone seen Piyush Jindal's birth certificate? We have no proof that he was actually born in this country.
goldbar: He's unofficially running for president so sooner or later, we'll have to see his birth certificate.
goldbar is a lying partisan hack and here is the proof
Ah, love him or hate him, that's our Lil' Nugget!
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 06:43 ET by SickofLibsWarner's classic response to that post: "Wow, goldbar. I didn't think we had fans of NewsBusters as stupid as you! I'm a bit surprised."
Bobby Jindal, the Hindu (or Muslim) Exorcist, born in the Republic of New Orleans.
If there is one thing I have learned here and at HA about the BC
Thu, 07/30/2009 - 13:28 ET by R D Helm...issue, it is that a whole lot of lefty nanny-state stooges, and not a few conservatives, are apparently scared sh*tless that Obama may turn out to be an ineligible POTUS.
-Dave
Why I am a birther
Fri, 07/31/2009 - 01:17 ET by JWFhttp://newsbusters.org/forums/woodshed/why-i-am-birther-31808