Tuesday's New York Times report by Jeff Zeleny, "Campaign Flashpoints: Patriotism and Service" covered the back and forth between the McCain and Obama camps over a controversial comment by retired general and Obama adviser Wesley Clark about McCain's lack of qualifications to be president.
In response to a question by Bob Schieffer on the CBS Sunday talk show "Face the Nation," Clark said of John McCain, "I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president."
But Zeleny also put heavy emphasis on fact-checking what he considers unfair attacks on Barack Obama.
Mr. Obama arrived here in Independence, the home of President Harry S. Truman, to open a weeklong patriotism tour. He sought to explain and defend his American ideals to ward off skepticism and silence persistent rumors about his loyalties to the nation.
....
Mr. McCain has had to distance himself from remarks criticizing Mr. Obama's patriotism, particularly television advertisements from the Republican parties in several states. It was Mr. Obama on Monday who had sought to answer those questions about his own background even as he distanced himself from comments questioning Mr. McCain's service.
....
For his part, Mr. Obama vowed to fight back against conservative critics who have questioned his patriotism "to score political points and raise fears about who I am and what I stand for."
Predictably, Zeleny signed up for the Times' busy pro-Obama fact-check squad, which has been active in meticulously dissecting false anti-Obama rumors:
The speech was the latest attempt by the campaign to fight back against incorrect assertions that Mr. Obama will not recite the Pledge of Allegiance, place his hand over his heart during the national anthem or wear a flag pin on his lapel. (He began wearing a pin two months ago after the criticism failed to subside.)
Mr. Obama sought to place his criticism into a broader context of American history, pointing out that Thomas Jefferson was accused by the Federalists of "selling out to the French," and John Adams was derided for being "in cahoots with the British."
The Times' Monday international edition filed another angle on the story by Brian Knowlton, heralding the frustratingly vague accusation that "conservative blogs" are questioning Obama's patriotism, without delivering concrete examples.
For his part, Obama traveled Monday to Independence, Missouri, to proclaim his patriotism in an appearance linked to the Fourth of July holiday. He defended Americans' right to differ with the majority, in a speech that traced a history of dissent going back to Jefferson. And he tried yet again to beat back persistent rumors, kept alive by conservative blogs and the rumor mill, that he is less than a true patriot.
....
In his speech in Missouri, Obama explicitly paid tribute to Senator McCain. Saying that patriotism involved loyalty to American ideals, "a willingness to dissent on behalf of those ideals," but also the strength for necessary sacrifice, he added that "for those like John McCain who have endured physical torment in service to our country, no further proof of such sacrifice is necessary."
But he sent a measured warning to any political opponent who continues to question his own patriotism.
"Let me say at this outset of my remarks," he said: "I will never question the patriotism of others in this campaign. And I will not stand idly by when I hear others question mine."
As he spoke, the Illinois senator stood on a flag-bedecked stage and, providing visible refutation to rumors, he wore a clearly visible American flag pin on his lapel.
Knowlton cited a condescending Washington Post story as inarguable fact:
Rumors are a staple of politics, but Obama seems to face an unusual problem tamping them down. An article in The Washington Post on Monday summed up the entirely false rumors being widely circulated in small-town America this way: that "Barack Obama, born in Africa, is a possibly gay Muslim racist who refuses to recite the Pledge of Allegiance."
Patriotism, national security and foreign affairs were thus set to take an uncommonly high profile this week in both presidential campaigns.
Knowlton at least devoted his next-to-last paragraph to leftist bloggers accusing McCain of committing war crimes over Hanoi as a Navy pilot in Vietnam.
—Clay Waters is the director of Times Watch, an MRC project tracking the New York Times.



















Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Mr. Waters:
July 1, 2008 - 17:44 ET by j. frank wilsonInstead of writing "in response to a question..." why not quote the question?
SCHIEFFER: Can I just interrupt you? I have to say, Barack Obama hasn't had any of these experiences either, nor has he ridden in a fighter plane and gotten shot down.
Obama may love and want to
July 1, 2008 - 17:52 ET by Chris NormanObama may love and want to help his country. But his "love" and "help" are going to ruin it. And no amount of flags and red, white and blue bunting is going to change that.
We've got the pictures!
July 1, 2008 - 17:53 ET by ThisnThat"incorrect assertions that Mr. Obama will not recite the Pledge of Allegiance, place his hand over his heart during the national anthem or wear a flag pin on his lapel."
Hey, we've got the pictures, man. And we have pictures of the cuban flag and Chevez in Obama's campaign offices. What to assert, and where is the "incorrectness"?
I'd also like to point out that these same assertions have never, and could not ever, be made of McCain. Wonder why the big difference? It's because of Obama's character and actions. The leapord never changes his spots.
___________________________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
Not just the pictures, but tacit admission . . .
July 1, 2008 - 20:23 ET by WingletDriverBHO is prominently wearing the American flag pin now after it was obvious that his previous "explanation" wasn't playing well in the polls.
To summarize his previous excuse: He wore the pin until he realized it was just a gimmick that substituted for real patriotism--you know that special brand of patriotism that hates everything American and apple pie. It kinda sounds like a hybrid of "I voted for the funding before I voted against it" and "Clinging to guns and religion."
BHOs flip flop on wearing the pin is just a tacit admission that it was anti-patriotic. If not wearing a flag pin on his lapel were really sensible and pro-American, as he originally claimed, then he's sold out his principles.
Previous Dem nominees not qualified to run military
July 1, 2008 - 18:33 ET by nkviking75The party which is criticizing John McCain's military experience as inadequate tried to pass off John Kerry's questionable military record as adequate preparation to be commander in chief. Even if we accept Kerry's claims about his Vietnam days at face value (pause to let the laughter subside), a few months as a lieutenant on a swiftboat pales next to McCain's record as a squadron commander and Annapolis grad, not to mention his POW years.
And does anybody remember the campaign of '92, when Bill Clinton claimed his authority over the Arkansas National Guard qualified him to be the CinC? Why doesn't the GOP throw that in their faces?
When you put the clowns in charge, don't be surprised when a circus breaks out.
OK, here's a deal if Obama
July 1, 2008 - 19:55 ET by motherbeltOK, here's a deal if Obama will take it: Forget McCain's war experiences; let's compare their experience in "public service."
What year did you get elected to the Illinois legislature, Sen. Obama?
By the time Obama had been defeated in a House race in 2000, and won his Senate seat when his opponent withdrew in 2003, McCain had been an elected and re-elected US Senator for 16 years.
As for the rumors in "small town America," Sen. Obama, you have to have a little compassion for those people out there who don't know any better. They're clinging to their guns and religion, so they're probably susceptible to Internet rumors too.
Oh, and viking....when it's a Democratic candidate, military experience doesn't matter squat...unless he has it. Then it's the brass ring. It's required for a Republican candidate unless he has it; then it's irrelevant.
Shoot 'em all; let God sort 'em out! - Marge Simpson
@nkviking75:
July 2, 2008 - 10:13 ET by j. frank wilsonYou comment "The party which is criticizing John McCain's military experience..." Here is what Gen. Clark had to say about Sen. McCain's military service:
"I certainly honor (McCain's) service as a prisoner of war. He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands of millions of others in the Armed Forces as a prisoner of war. He has been a voice on the Senate Armed Services Committee, and he has traveled all over the world."
That's a criticism?
On the other hand, does military service alone qualify one for being a successful President of the United States? Abraham Lincoln was an excellent President - and he joked about his Black Hawk War experience. George Washington was a far better President than a general. Harry S Truman was an excellent President and, in my book, an excellent soldier. Dwight Eisenhower clearly was an extraordinary general and a good President. I don't think William Henry Harrison counts. There are others, of course, and FDR was an excellent President with no military service. George Bush Sr. as President accomplished many things for which he is not given enough credit today (such as considerably reducing the threat of WMD) and he was a war hero.
But if military service alone were enough, US Grant clearly would have been our greatest President. Sadly, he wasn't.
Gen. Clark's point was that military service alone - no matter how heroic - isn't enough. To twist that into claiming that he denigrated or criticized Sen. McCain's military service is a flat out lie.
You're simply wrong, frankly
July 5, 2008 - 08:29 ET by ThisnThatClark wanted to make sure he dented people's opinion of McCain. And the MSM let him get away with it. As soon as Clark said what he said, the reporter should have shot back with:
President Kennedy -- a movie was made of his boat running out of gas. Why? Wouldn't you, Gen Clark, claim that simply running out of gas is no qualification for being President?
John Kerry -- he made a big deal of his vietnam experience, and yet the people that served around him pointed out all sorts of inconsistancies and untruths about that experience. Kerry also came back and lied about fellow soldiers, and threw away his medals. Did you, Gen Clark, go on national TV and let all of us know that Kerry's Vietnam experience did not qualify him to be President?
Gen Clark -- people wanted you, yourself, to run for office. And they did so solely because you were a General. At any time, Gen Clark, did you hold a press conference to announce that your military qualifications should be completely thrown out the window because they are not relevant?
So, j frank, can you see how Clark's words were not a mistake, and how they were explictly directed to denigrating McCain, and McCain only to the benefit of Obama? This was not a general (no pun intended) and innocent comment. This was a direct attack on McCain's service record.
___________________________________
If you can read this, thank a teacher. If it is in English, thank a Soldier. - My barber
And I got a picture of you
July 1, 2008 - 18:34 ET by goldbarAnd I got a picture of you in your skivvies.
i got a picture of you
July 2, 2008 - 10:06 ET by larry on LIgoldbar ,what happened to you civility?i guess you missed the warning.
no pain,no gain
An article in The
July 1, 2008 - 19:45 ET by MidAmericaAn article in The Washington Post on Monday summed up the entirely false rumors being widely circulated in small-town America this way: that "Barack Obama, born in Africa, is a possibly gay Muslim racist who refuses to recite the Pledge of Allegiance."
Oh yeah.... Well obama tried to spread the rumor that us small town Americans were bitter and we cling to our guns and our faith.
"I don't think riding in a
July 1, 2008 - 20:35 ET by scamorama"I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president."
There is nothing untrue in that statement. Personally, I find it accurate.
I'd take exception if it was delivered in a snide tone, however.
"There is nothing untrue in
July 1, 2008 - 21:13 ET by Dan The Man 2"There is nothing untrue in that statement. Personally, I find it accurate" and you would be right if that was all there was. the big idea that the MSM and possibly you missed was the incarceration and the character it showed. This contest as always has been about character. The main reason governor Bush won over Gore and President Bush won over Kerry.
Some recognized the character in President Bush and some did not, mostly divided along party lines. And again it will rely on those who recognize character and those who just want a character.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Complete non sequitur
July 1, 2008 - 21:15 ET by WingletDriverMcCain wasn't "riding" in a fighter plane. He was a Naval aviator and officer. He was on a combat mission over enemy territory, not sitting in first class. His military and wartime experience are good arguments for CinC experience.
Furthermore, nobody has argued that McCain deserves to be President on the basis of being an officer or POW. However, his conduct while he was a POW speaks to his character--what kind of man is he really. McCain was offered and refused release as a POW because he knew it was a propaganda stunt to show he was a child of privilege. To willingly endure the torture he did so as not to destroy the morale of his fellow Americans is germane to whether he is a good American and whether he has the character to lead.
For Clark to denigrate his position is an insult. To ignore the truly heroic way McCain conducted himself is cynical beyond belief.
btw, I will not vote for McCain based on his liberal leanings, but I still respect his service and sacrifice.
@Dan the Man 2 & WingletDriver:
July 2, 2008 - 12:41 ET by j. frank wilsonYou both make an excellent point about Sen. McCain - his courage and his character are not to be questioned. The most vicious attacks on Sen. McCain's military experience that I have seen have come from the far-out rightwing. I won't repeat or cite them - they are nutty statements from nutz and don't deserve the publicity. I would never say such statements reflect anything except the derangement of the people who made them.
Gen. Clark, however, was answering the question. I've noticed that sometimes x-military use a rough and tumble conversation style that doesn't translate very well to other arenas. But that doesn't mean he was denigrating Sen. McCain's service.
Like many other people, my problem is with much of Sen. McCain's philosophy and policies. I'm not comfortable with his very frequent significant changes in position on major issues.
And that's what we should be discussing this year - issues and policies. Not flag pins, preachers, or politics as usual. It was famously observed that war is too important to be left to the generals. This time around, the future of our country is too important to be left to the politicians.
If Clark were just answering a question. . .
July 2, 2008 - 14:23 ET by WingletDriverand he poorly worded his response, a simple "I'm sorry" would have sufficed. But Clark has not backed down from what he said. And BHO's non-apology shows that he thinks it's fair game.
As for flag pins & preachers, these do get to the heart of who this person is. BHO made the measured decision not to wear a flag pin and his explanation as to why only made the situation worse. As I said above, his wearing the pin now is tacit admission that it was anti-patriotic.
His J. Wright problem is germane to who he is. Fate decides who your relatives are, you decide who your friends are. Even in his book BHO claims that two of the three people who have had the most profound influence on him spiritually are Wright and the now disowned Fr. Pflegler. Both of these men are as abhorrent associations as the KKK. And for proof positive, just ask BHO who obviously agrees because he's disavowed them. Just as it is right to measure David Duke by association with the KKK, it is right to measure BHO by his association with Black liberation theologists.
@wingletDriver:
July 2, 2008 - 15:52 ET by j. frank wilsonI find the whole flag pin thing a complete waste of time. Sen. Obama explained his position - I agree with it. Just like I agree with him on the gas tax holiday being a fraud. The flag pin became a distraction so he took care of it.
Talking about flag pins won't save one American job, keep one home out of foreclosure, bring the price of gasoline down one penny, or save a single life in Afganistan or Iraq. It's a complete waste of time.
Should you wish to talk about flag pins, however, why don't you ask Bull O'Really? why his website sells illegal ones?
In the meantime, I'd like to talk about real issues. Where someone goes to church just isn't one for me. Sen. John Kennedy said it best - it's no one's business but his own. I agree. Actually, I have no trouble at all with Black Liberation Theology. Not the made-up Internet version, of course, I'm talking about the real deal. It's just fine with me. Rev. Wright gave 3 one hour sermons what - 45 or 50 Sundays a year? - for how many years? 20? 25? 30? I'm not going to judge him based on 30 seconds of soundbites taken from 3,000 hours of preaching.
It's another lie, by the way, that Trinity Church gave Louis Farrakhan an award. Don't believe it, even if you hear Sheer Insannity tell you it's true. And you believe all the nice things Jack Kemp said about Louis Farrakhan? Guess Sheer Insannity forgot to ask him about those remarks...
It's amazing how you can't seem to make a point
July 2, 2008 - 16:46 ET by WingletDriverIf you'd like to call people banal nicknames, please go to the HuffPo. If you'd like to make a point, please try again.
Frankie its not whether or
July 3, 2008 - 08:01 ET by Dan The Man 2Frankie its not whether or not he wears flag pins, but the explanation itself. The same with all the items you mentioned. We understand you are a fellow traveller and have the same ideas and respect for America as Obama and his wife does. We will pray for you, but I think it will do no good.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
Ya know, I think I am a big
July 2, 2008 - 14:55 ET by Ruths husband BenYa know, I think I am a big enough boy to decide what I should be discussing this year. If I want to talk about ODumbo ears, well that's what I will discuss. Or if I want to talk about him holding his hand over his heart, guess what? Fair game. It's all fair game.
We have to get the measure of a man who has barely spent any time on the national stage. One with, what, two bills that he coauthored? One with shady associations with all kinds of disreputable people, and yes one who had a spiritual advisor who spouts all kinds of stuff which should make every black man cringe (if my preacher said that kind of stuff about black America, I'd walk out of the sanctuary). Oh, strike that. It should make every thinking man cringe.
We have to understand what "change" Obama means when he says he's for "change" and he doesn't seem inclined to tell us. I know Liberals love change for change sakes, but those of us with functional critical thinking skills need more. We're funny that way.
Finally, this is politics, the last legal blood sport in America. If he can't handle it, maybe he should just step down from the nomination.
“it is not the role of this Court to pronounce the Second Amendment extinct.” - Justice Antonin Scalia
You make a poor translation
July 2, 2008 - 15:21 ET by Dan The Man 2You make a poor translation of what I said as this “Sen. McCain - his courage and his character are not to be questioned” is bogus. I think we should look at all of the candidate’s character, a point you obviously missed and most likely don’t understand.
Attacks on McCAin if they are valid must be fielded, but the Clark’s comments were out in the ozone and never valid. His purpose was like the trolls we have here to throw bombs without merit. As far as this “I've noticed that sometimes x-military use a rough and tumble conversation style that doesn't translate very well to other arenas” there was no translation errors and Clark was not using any rough and tumble military style as if he were he would recognize the service McCain gave to his country. Unlike the Cluster F### Clark gave.
This is funny “Not flag pins, preachers, or politics as usual” because these little things is what makes up the man. Its not the idea Obama did not wear a flag pin it was the screwy explanation he gave. Like I said Obama’s character is found wanting.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
@Dan the Man 2:
July 2, 2008 - 15:58 ET by j. frank wilsonOne more time - Gen. Clark said:
"I certainly honor (McCain's) service as a prisoner of war. He was a hero to me and to hundreds of thousands of millions of others in the Armed Forces as a prisoner of war. He has been a voice on the Senate Armed Services Committee, and he has traveled all over the world."
And you comment that Gen. Clark didn't recognize Sen. McCain's service to his country? I repeated it above in the event you didn't read the earlier comment.
On the other hand, clearly you do not respect Gen. Clark's service. But that's on you, isn't it?
Clark may have said words
July 3, 2008 - 08:20 ET by Dan The Man 2Clark may have said words but he doesnt believe them, because he denigrated his service by saying "rode in a plane" and other crap. I know I wont convince you otherwise. Frankie, I can lead lead a you to the facts but I cant make you think.
Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.
you are 100% correct
July 2, 2008 - 13:57 ET by SickofLibs"McCain wasn't "riding" in a fighter plane."
You ride in a roller coaster. You pilot a fighter plane.
The statement was absolutely meant to be demeaning, especially considering the source - another military officer.
Samuel Johnson
July 1, 2008 - 21:36 ET by Vonu"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." So true in the case of O. But patriotism, in the case of McCain; is also the first.
Live free or die
Spinning for Obama. In the tank for Obama.
July 2, 2008 - 00:39 ET by JWFNo one, I repeat, no one questioned his patriotism. It is that he absolutely can not keep his foot out of his mouth.
Obama - "The truth is that right after 9/11 I had a pin. Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we're talking about the Iraq war, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security."
Honoring the flag is the highest form of patriotism. It is not a "substitute", that constitutes patriotism. This is not something a man the is running for the highest office of this country should be saying.
The failure to place his hand over his heart during the playing of the national anthem in the presence of a U.S Flag is not impugning his patriotism either.
Someone running for the highest office in this land ought to know that it is against the law, (placing the hand over the heart) and a national custom. Failing to realize he could be photographed doing this while others were properly doing so is complete gaffe.
He should have apologized, admit it was a brain fart and move on, but no, instead we get spin spin spin.
"Clark said of John McCain,
July 2, 2008 - 12:08 ET by misterbee241"Clark said of John McCain, "I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president."
I know that people here already know, so I'm stating this for Gen Clark: McCain did not ride a fighter - he was a bomber pilot.
A four star general should know the difference.
"There is none so blind as they that won’t see."
Jonathan Swift 1667-1745
"Clark said of John McCain,
July 2, 2008 - 14:41 ET by bassndude"Clark said of John McCain, "I don't think riding in a fighter plane and getting shot down is a qualification to be president."
Neither is getting shot up one month into your first command Wes. Should have listened to your NCO's, they tried to tell you then.
Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!
If Clark indeed said this,
July 3, 2008 - 08:29 ET by NL207If Clark indeed said this, it is further indication of what a clueless richard cheese he really is. McCain wasn't "riding". He was driving! The aircraft he was flying, the A-4 Skyhawk, was not a fighter plane. It was a light attack aircraft, a tactical bomber.
Wesley Clark is an ignoramus.
@bassndude:
July 3, 2008 - 12:27 ET by j. frank wilsonDo you make light of Col. "Ollie" North's service - as I understand it he was wounded in the line of duty. Perhaps Gen. Clark should have gotten captured? Was that John Kerry's mistake as well?
Gen. Clark served, was wounded in combat and awarded the Silver Star.
You choose to make light of his service and his sacrifice.
I find it just amazing how quickly conservatives turn on people who have served in the military. They are always the experts, refusing to honor the service of people because their politics don't match. Just amazing...
That you are so willing to do this says considerably more about you than it does about Gen. Clark.
That entirely false rumor
July 2, 2008 - 14:34 ET by Ruths husband BenThat entirely false rumor cited above (I won't repeat it here) is totally bogus. I live in small-town America and no one I know thinks Obamalamadingdong was born in Africa.
“it is not the role of this Court to pronounce the Second Amendment extinct.” - Justice Antonin Scalia