NYT Again Slimes 'Unfounded Rumors' from Swift Boat Vets

Photo of Clay Waters.
By Clay Waters | February 26, 2008 - 15:19 ET

Hillary Clinton and "conservative blogs" are attacking media heart-throb Barack Obama, and reporter Michael Powell rushed to Obama's defense Monday, including a slam of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, in "Taking Blows From All Sides and Weighting When to Punch Back."

And conservative blogs and television commentators accuse Mr. Obama of all manner of unpatriotic derelictions....Mr. McCain, for his part, lobbed a few shots over the weekend into the Democratic Party ranks.

If either Democrat withdrew troops from Iraq as proposed, he said in a speech Saturday night before the Republican Governors Association in Washington, Al Qaeda would "celebrate to the world that they have defeated the United States of America."

The Republican attacks, whether from Mr. McCain or the conservative blogosphere, present a trickier challenge for Democrats. When Mr. Obama tried to ignore the unfounded rumor that he is a Muslim (he is, in fact, a practicing Christian), the charge even appeared in mainstream news outlets.

In 2004, Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts, the Democratic nominee for president that year, and his campaign also tried to ignore unfounded rumors besmirching his war record in Vietnam -- a move that former aides now describe as a mistake.

"I'm not saying you can ignore patented smears," said Mr. Axelrod, the Obama campaign strategist. "But the danger is that you take your eye off your knitting."

(Speaking of "unfounded rumors," how about that blockbuster McCain story?) 

The "unfounded rumors" Powell is referencing of course came from the Swift Boat Veterans, who famously went on the record to challenge Sen. John Kerry's medals and memories. Powell's hostile, loaded description highlighted above is a harsher echo of the Times's dismissive coverage of the Swift Boat Vets from the 2004 campaign, when the Times called the group's claims "unsubstantiated" on two dozen occasions. The Times never bothered to actually test the Swifties' claims for veracity, even after the Swifties has proven John Kerry to be false on his frequent claim of having spent Christmas 1968 on a secret mission in Cambodia.

By contrast, smears on George W. Bush's National Guard record during Vietnam were never called "unsubstantiated" by the Times, even though they were based on forged documents.

—Clay Waters is the director of Times Watch, an MRC project tracking the New York Times.

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Sweet Irony

The irony of this is just too unbelievable. How did it slip past the editors less than a week after the Times printed unfounded rumors about McCain having an affair with a lobbyist.

Are the editors of the Times completely asleep?

And this guy is a

And this guy is a "reporter". Not a commentator or an analyst - but a "reporter". Is there any difference left - at all?

I think it was Ann Coulter

I think it was Ann Coulter who used to say that the NYT had a process key (is that what you call it?) that inserted "the unsubstantiated charges of the Swift Boat Veterans."

Having someone say "I was there and that's not how it happened" is an "unfounded rumor"? That's their story and they're sticking to it.

Even when T. Boone Pickens challenged Kerry, Kerry said he was "prepared" to refute the charges, but backed off when Pickens said he wanted proof from his recrods and his diaries.

It's to the benefit of the Times and the other outlets to not put anything to the test...that way they can continue to claim there is a dispute.

Correction:  Pickens was

Correction:  Pickens was the one who backed down, not Kerry.

2nd Louie, are you saying

2nd Louie, are you saying Kerry produced the documents?

"Fighters are fun but bombers make policy"

Buff,

My guess is that goldbar's pretense is that because Pickens wouldn't accept, "because I said so" from Kerry it constitutes backing down from his challenge.

My recollection of Picken's

My recollection of Picken's challenge was it was too broad.  Something on the order of if anything could be proved as factually incorrect, Kerry could pick up the cash. 

So if there was a comment about the weather and Kerry said the sky was blue but someone recalled a localized thunderstorm (not that ever happened in country) and the weather records didn't mention it, then it would be point, game, set, match, and cash to Kerry.

"Fighters are fun but bombers make policy"

Synopsis

This is roughly the sequence of events as I've been reading about it...

Pickens challenged anyone to provide proof that the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth TV ads during the campaign contained falsehoods and would be awarded $1m.

Kerry responded that he'd provide that proof in a public forum and told Pickens who to make the check out to (a veterans charity).

Pickens then told Kerry that all he had to do was release his military records and he'd write the check.

Maybe that's too brief a description, but that's the gist of it and as far as it goes from what I've read.

Its not taht it was broad

Its not taht it was broad as it was issued in a speech in a friendly venue.  The particulars of teh challenge were not accepted by Kerry when Boone specified them.

Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.

 From the Boston

 From the Boston Globe:

 "In May 2005, he began signing the Standard Form 180, giving reporters access to his full Navy record personnel and medical records -- something he refused to do during the campaign.

Subsequent reviews showed those records mostly duplicated documents Kerry released during the 2004 campaign. In addition, they included numerous commendations from commanders who went on to criticize Kerry's service during the presidential race."

You cant be serious?  I

You cant be serious?  I prmoise to release all records.  Tommorow my wife can see them.  We have no proof he did so or that he released all of them.  Boone Pickens called him out and Kerry was yallar. 

Nuke em til they glow then shoot em in the dark.

http://www.powerlineblog.com

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/010795.php

How about T. Boone Pickens releasing his military records?

T. Boone Pickens' med. records?

Was T. Boone Pickens running for President? Maybe I missed something there. Tell me again why would he have to release his records? Since I was vehemently opposed to Kerry for lots of reasons, does that mean that I have to release my medical records too? Sounds like grade-school logic to me.

I'm unfamiliar with Mr.

I'm unfamiliar with Mr. Pickens.  I imagine seeing as he was calling into question John Kerry's patriotism,  he must have a pretty illustrious record himself.

Try Again

Somehow my response to this post of yours ended up at the bottom of the thread.

In a nutshell, even the Powerline piece you link to states that Kerry did NOT release all of his records-the reserve records were not included. And he ONLY released them to 3 liberal reporters.

What's he hiding?

What's George W. Bush

What's George W. Bush hiding?  His military records seem to have vanished into thin air.

gb... Like I said

gb...

Like I said before...troll around...ask Mapes and Rather.

You know damned well he has released all of his records...this is old news. 

 From the Montgomery

 From the Montgomery Independent:

"As the 2000 Presidential campaign moved along, angry veterans in Alabama claimed that George W Bush never performed any military service in that state, as stated on his campaign website.  They offered a reward of $1000 (which rose to $3,500) to anyone who could prove that he had.  No one came forth with any proof."

If they were making the

If they were making the claim that he hadn't, they should have to prove that. OH, but I forgot.....when asked if they shouldn't have had to prove their documents were authentic before running with them, Mary Mapes said "No, I don't think that's the standard."

No, you just throw out an accusation and challenge the target of it to prove it's wrong.

I don't blame the Bush people for ignoring it.

Bush Service records

"His military records seem to have vanished into thin air"

If by "vanished into thin air" you mean that his records were posted on the DOD website, then here's your thin air:

The Service of President George W. Bush in the Texas Air National Guard Link

Enjoy!

Del,

My theory is that Kerry' discharge was classified as something less-than-honorable.

If that is true, then he was not eligible to run for POTUS.

Proud member of the "Rough Republican Attack Machine."

What is missed in all of

What is missed in all of this is that the VAST MAJORITY of the Swift Boat Veterans simply stated their opinion of John Forbes Kerry based on his action in Vietnam as well as afterwards during his Winter Soldier and VVAW fiasco's...

Most of them simply stated their opinion in the following manner "I do not believe Kerry is qualified to lead the US based on what I saw of him in the 1970's."

How on EARTH IS THIS UNSUBSTANTIATED?????  They have the right to state any opinion they have of the man, just like all of my comrades have the right to state the opinions of me and my actions.

Oh, and by the way, if 200+ of my fellow Infantry Battalion soldiers from my O-2 days said I was unqualified to lead the nation, I think I would believe them (And probably sink into an unending depression).

Goldbar, Kerry signed the

Goldbar, Kerry signed the SF180, but it was never sent to the pentagon. Kerry also cherry picked which records were released. He Never released All of his records.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

What do you think he's

What do you think he's leaving out?

Lots. For one thing, he

Lots. For one thing, he never released his full medical records. Only the fact that he has purple hearts. The records would discribe the wound and the severity. The cititations for his awards. Who recommended him for them? I know he was the recommending officer for at least one of them. Maybe more. Now, unless your an egotistical blow hard, you dont recommend yourself for any award. Enlisted men cant recommend themselves. Why did Kerry?

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

I know he was the

I know he was the recommending officer for at least one of them.

Source please.

Source please.

Lieutenant Commander Grant Hibbard. Kerrys commanding officer in Vietnam.

"He had a little scratch on his forearm, and he was holding a piece of shrapnel," recalled Kerry's commanding officer, Lieutenant Commander Grant Hibbard. "People in the office were saying, `I don't think we got any fire,' and there is a guy holding a little piece of shrapnel in his palm." Hibbard said he couldn't be certain whether Kerry actually came under fire on Dec. 2, 1968, the date in questionand that is why he said he asked Kerry questions about the matter.

But Kerry persisted and, to his own "chagrin," Hibbard said, he dropped the matter. "I do remember some questions, some correspondence about it," Hibbard said. "I finally said, `OK, if that's what happened . . . do whatever you want.' After that, I don't know what happened. Obviously, he got it, I don't know how." 

I never recived an award and my Commanding Officer not know who, what, when, where and how.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

So you stated you knew he

So you stated you knew he recommended himself for a purple heart.  I asked for a source.

I'm still asking.

Source

No one has debunked the story yet, which appeared in the Swift Boat book. Even Kerry biographer Douglas Brinkley tried to whitewash it in a Salon article, without even addressing the issue.

Excerpt:

"The following morning, John Kerry arrived at the office of Coastal Division 14 Commander Grant Hibbard to apply for a Purple Heart. Having already been informed by Schachte that Kerry's injury was self-inflicted rather than the result of hostile fire, Commander Hibbard told him to "forget it." Hibbard recently said of Kerry's minor scratch, "I’ve seen worse injuries from a rose thorn."

Nevertheless, John Kerry managed to obtain his coveted Purple Heart for this incident nearly three months later after being transferred to Coastal Division 11. The circumstances remain obscure, as there are no written records of this award on file at the Naval Historical Center. Various other documents that might shed light on this award remain unavailable due to Senator Kerry's refusal to release his complete military records."

Hard to believe isn't it? 

Hard to believe isn't it?  I cannot imagine writing myself up for a Silver Star, Purple Heart, an MSM, or even a lowly Army Achievement Medal.

Absolutely stunning,

Absolutely stunning, BD.

Save a SeAL, club a liberal!!

Since you asked for an

Since you asked for an opinion, it could be some info about a social disease, aka "The Clap."

 "Fighters are fun but bombers make policy"

Simple

Dishonorable discharge.

delete double  

delete double

 

In other words, he offeren

In other words, he offeren nothing new....only the same stuff.

Erratum:  It is "Weighing"

Erratum:  It is "Weighing" instead of Weighting" for the first paragraph quotation.  (no "t")

The Libs believe that more mileage can be had from referencing any innuendo, slander, or outright fallacy concerning Bush and his administration and supporters.  We'll be subjected to Bush Bashing for years I imagine.

RRAM Tough! 

There's nothing different

There's nothing different in the NYT modus operandi.  They are still going to throw whatever they want against the wall and see what sticks.  Rush said years ago that reporters are basically lazy. They all want the stories coming to them not the other way around.

So pile on the falsehoods about Conservatives, the automatons that read the NYT will never challenge them on that. It is up to us and us alone to fight back against them.

Why doesn't the media ever

Why doesn't the media ever talk to those who felt they were badmouthed by Kerry, or don't appreciate being stereotyped as criminals by his words?  Here's an article from former POW's who detail how they had to listen to his words while they were in prison.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_200408/ai_n9436920

 

 Here's another article about a documentary in which those who made it say the media is reluctant to show their story.   This video is endorsed by General Norman Schwarzkopf.

From the below link.

"The Cranes compiled other eye-opening statistics. For example, in contrast to the myth perpetuated by Platoon (Oliver Stone's 1987 film) that servicemen in Vietnam indulged in murderous, dope-fueled misdeeds, the vast majority behaved admirably. Nearly all--97%--were honorably discharged from the service. Today, 90% who saw heavy combat say they are proud to have served."

http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G1-98829331.html

 

 

 

 

Meanwhile, we're still

Meanwhile, we're still waiting for Mr. Kerry to release his military records...

As long as we're talking

As long as we're talking military records....what ever happened to Bush's military records?

Provide a link please.

goldbar... Call Rather

goldbar...

Call Rather and Mapes.

Why?  I suppose that means

Why?  I suppose that means you don't have an answer?

Here Ya Go

http://www.dod.mil/p...

How come Kerry is afraid to do the same thing?

blah

I still get annoyed when people refer to "swiftboating" as telling a lie . . .

 

sean... Kinda' like

sean...

Kinda' like 'McCarthyism' isn't it.

Hypocrites

What Kerry did, Kerry did. It's there, right in front of the hypocrites in the media. Go to the video tape. See John F'n Kerry saying those things to Congress. Watch the scum lying about our soldiers. Ya' think Michael Powell may be a teenie, weenie bit biased? Ya think he may be a Democratic "liberal"? I know he's an ignoramous and ignorance is bliss for the "liberals". 

NEVER,NEVER trust a "liberal"

For what it's worth, I

For what it's worth, I addressed Al Franken's failed attempts at challenging the SBVT:

1. Franken "Not There" on Swift Boat Claim.

2. Swifties Debunked? No. Franken Debunked.

...

Frankenlies.com: Al Franken debunked

Thank you Dave. It

Thank you Dave.

It doesn't matter how many times things are proven, they will still say "unsubstantiated rumors."

Goldbar, Try Again...

Did you actually read the Powerline post you linked to? It says Kerry failed to release all of his records-he didn't release his reserve records. It also states that he only released them to 3 reporters, not the general public, and only released them as a "one time single release". In other words, he was afraid to let the general public see them, and would only let the reporters see them once.

Who were those reporters? All Kerry sycophants. Michael Kranish writes for the NY Times-owned Boston Globe, which endorsed Kerry. The insufferable Glen Johnson of AP totally embarassed himself on the campaign trail a couple of months ago, and the third reporter is from the ultra-left LA Times.

What's Kerry hiding? He obviously didn't want the general public to see his whole history.

As for T-Bone Pickens, he was too young to serve in World War 2, was in college during the Korean War, and by the time Vietnam came around he was too old.

Here's the money quotes from the Powerline piece you link to.

1. "The only apparent anomaly in the Form 180s is that they only authorize the release of Kerry's active duty records, not his reserve records. This could well be important, in that Kerry's antiwar activities occurred when he was a member of the reserves. On the other hand, some think that the language of the 180 is broad enough that the Navy may have released Kerry's reserve records, even though not specifically instructed to."

2. "The people who know, of course, are the reporters to whom the documents were sent. This is a very weird procedure--authorizing the records to be released, but only to specified reporters."

It's interesting to note that when other news organizations asked the Kerry folks for the same info he gave the 3 liberal reporters, they were rebuffed.

Ohhhhh....Goldbar gets

Ohhhhh....Goldbar gets SHACKED on that one....

OK, let me see if I

OK, let me see if I understand this: the Swifties challenged Kerry's service record, which he did release. The only thing he didn't release was his reserve record. Am I stating that correctly?

No

They also challenged his reserve record. After all, that was when he conducted all of his anti-war activities.

In other words, the Swifties went after him for what he did as an active service member, but also went after him for what he did as a membe rof the Reserves. He's still hiding the reserve records, probably because of a dishonorable discharge.

To liberals anything they don't like is "unsubstantiated"

When they don't want to admit something, or find it disturbing if it's true, they label it as unsubstabtiated accusations or unfounded rumors, etc.

The day that "politician" became a career choice is the day we started losing the Republic. Let's get it back! Alan Keyes '08.

Bush military records.

Goldbar....THWACK!!!!!!! Roflmao....!!!