New York Times Public Editor Clark Hoyt's Sunday column, "Civil Discourse, Meet the Internet," delivered some piping hot news, circa year 2000: Web comments can often be rude and crude.
"WARNING: This column contains rude and objectionable language not normally found in the pages of this newspaper but seen surprisingly often on its Web site.
"As The New York Times transforms itself into a multimedia news and information platform -- the printed newspaper plus a robust nytimes.com offering breaking news, blogs, interactive graphics, video and more -- it is struggling with a vexing problem. How does the august Times, which has long stood for dignified authority, come to terms with the fractious, democratic culture of the Internet, where readers expect to participate but sometimes do so in coarse, bullying and misinformed ways?"
What Hoyt doesn't mention: Roughly 90-95% of Times comments are from liberals.
The Times is clearly buying into the new paradigm of reader interactivity.
"The paper is creating a comment desk, starting with the hiring of four part-time staffers, to screen all reader submissions before posting them, an investment unheard of in today's depressed newspaper business environment. The Times has always allowed reader comments on the many blogs it publishes, with those responses screened by the newsroom staff. That experience suggests what the paper is letting itself in for.
"'I didn't know how big it would become, and I didn’t know how tough it would be to manage,' said Jim Roberts, editor of the Web site. A particularly hot topic on a blog can generate more than 500 comments -- 500, that is, that meet guidelines requiring that a comment be coherent, on point, not obscene or abusive, and not a personal attack. Though editors have mixed feelings about it, The Times has so far bowed to Web custom by allowing readers to use screen names, as long as they don't claim to be Thomas Paine, Condi Rice or a famous porn star."
Then Hoyt went on a tirade against a comment that clearly cut him to the bone, a crude one suggesting that the Times take in some illegal immigrants into its new headquarters, that Hoyt had removed from the Times website:
"That's the lofty goal, but the real Internet world often falls far short.
"Take, for example 'Ray in Mexican Colony of LA,' who recently managed to get a comment posted on one blog, The Lede, suggesting that The Times 'have all the displaced ILLEGALS from the FIRES Move into the TIMES NYC HQ Building ... and let them urinate in the halls like they do infront [sic] of most every Home Depot in all the rest of the USA.' (After I pointed this comment out to editors, it was removed.)"
Meanwhile, this charming death wish on Vice President Dick Cheney and the attendees of the Conservative Political Action Conference has, as of November 5, been on display since March 2 (see comment #30).
"Cheney addressing CPAC? Darkness reaching for darkness. If some enterprising terrorist wanted to do this country a favor, for a change, they’d take out the lot of them. -- Posted by Peter Principle"
Hoyt did pass on some Rudy Giuliani death wishes:
"After The Caucus, The Times's politics blog, reported recently that the five organized crime families of New York had voted 3-to-2 not to put out a hit contract on Rudolph Giuliani when he was a crusading United States attorney, a reader with the screen name chopsticks posted this one-word comment: 'Recount!' Another, Geoff, said: 'Giuliani is just as corrupt as the MOB so who really cares. They should have gotten rid of him!'"
But then Hoyt again singled out the relatively mild "Ray in Mexican Colony" for special opprobrium.
"I believe that's especially true if you're The New York Times and you are trying to maintain a rare tradition of civility. A site with many Rays in Mexican Colony of LA might carry the name of The New York Times, but it would no longer be The New York Times."
—Clay Waters is the director of Times Watch, an MRC project tracking the New York Times.
















Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Doesn't the pompous and
November 5, 2007 - 18:07 ET by Chris NormanDoesn't the pompous and condescending NYT, like most liberals, consider conservatives, by our very nature, "rude and vitiolic"? Uneducated and unsophisticted - unworthy and unfit to participate in the public discourse, being the beer swillin' hillbillies we are?
New York Times loves Stalin
November 5, 2007 - 18:07 ET by Lame CherryStrange how the New York Times coming out in favor of butcher Stalin is considered acceptable behavior along with all their lying reporters.......and how Bill Maher is cuddly and Joe Klein is saintly.....but those common misfits of the Kos and Huffpo are horrid.
*HIC IACET ARTORIVS REX QVONDAM REXQVE FVTVRVS
Just what the **** do those
November 5, 2007 - 18:11 ET by mattmJust what the **** do those ******** *****at the ****** NYT know about the ******* price of ******** eggs?
Next thing you know they'll be censoring Hillary. Holy ****!
Rudeness and name calling
November 5, 2007 - 18:27 ET by mvfreemanRudeness and name calling know no ideological bounds. Everyone's an ***hole and tough guy when they're posting anonymously.
There aren't very many forums on the web where you can disagree with the consensus opinion without getting insulted.
Hoyt has job security with
November 5, 2007 - 18:30 ET by bigtimerHoyt has job security with the NYT...fits right in there.
Snug as a leftist bug in a rug.
BT, I'll get the can of
November 5, 2007 - 18:32 ET by Chris NormanBT,
I'll get the can of Raid... :)
censoring the truth is more like it
November 5, 2007 - 18:56 ET by UndercoverConservativeat any large home improvement store around here, try actually walking up the sidewalk to it and going in, from the public street. pass the big sign out front with "day workers" on a warm day and tell me that there's no problem.
Tho maybe the NYT is right. "Ray" left out half the truth. There's nothing like the stench of human feces on a hot day, mingling with the sewer smell of awaiting "day workers" who don't buy product so they can't get in to use the restrooms, and local gas stations won't allow them to keep coming over to use the toilets.
I ride a motorcycle as a primary commuter. if I need a couple of rattlecans or some batteries or some smaller stuff from Home Depot then I take the bike. And as a rider friend explained: when you ride, you don't go thru the environment, you're a part of it. Applies to skunk roadkill, skunky ganja fumes (get that plenty around here, following three car lengths back, at over 50MPH and you *still* can smell the weed) and human outhouses near underpasses and now around places where "day labor" can be found. There's even a 7-11 around here that's intolerable in the summer.
The only thing I hate more than hypocritical people censoring one person's "offensive" speech while allowing anothers, is people eliminating eyewitness and proved *FACTS* that they find offensive even though they're true.
When did TruthMonitor,
November 5, 2007 - 20:19 ET by Airforce_5_OWhen did TruthMonitor, opps, Monger start writting for the NYT?
The only thing you should feel when shooting insurgents is the rifle recoil.
hee-hee-hee...the emporer
November 5, 2007 - 20:21 ET by TruthMongerhee-hee-hee...the emporer is way ahead of the curve as usual:)
just like Rush - my loyal apprentice...
got the force rightchere:)
(head swells of the page)
Partner with Islam and the NB respect police:)
Sorry TM It was there...Had
November 5, 2007 - 20:30 ET by Airforce_5_OSorry TM It was there...Had to do it.
The only thing you should feel when shooting insurgents is the rifle recoil.
no problemo AF i love
November 5, 2007 - 20:40 ET by TruthMongerno problemo AF
i love attention - sad i know...
Partner with Islam and the NB respect police:)
What follows august - lame?
November 5, 2007 - 21:01 ET by acumenAnother duh story by the NY Times. Can't imagine why their circulation is dropping faster than Bubba's trou at a Mary Kay seminar. Was that "course" and/or bullying?....Note to self: ask the NY Times Public Editor.
What could the NY Times possibly use as a follow up story? Just in - Readers participating in culture of the Internet sometimes in civil, passive and informed ways.
But then, the above would make it harder for the NY Times to slip in how "august" they are as compared to their readers. Is august a new liberal synonym for lame?
Nothing new here
November 5, 2007 - 21:31 ET by Kevin HalpernI have been running newspaper Web sites that allowed readers to post comments to stories for the last 8 years. What the NYT is experiencing is nothing new. They are behind the times, which also is nothing new.
'Ray in Mexican Colony of LA,' - My hero.
November 5, 2007 - 22:28 ET by Dave R....suggesting that The Times 'have all the displaced ILLEGALS from the
FIRES Move into the TIMES NYC HQ Building ... and let them urinate in
the halls like they do infront [sic] of most every Home Depot in all
the rest of the USA.'...
I'm sorry, but I find absolutely nothing wrong with this comment whatsoever.
I guess this Hoyt guy doesn't spend much time around Home Depots.
what the NYT hasn't figured out
November 6, 2007 - 09:25 ET by lunaticcringeradioit's soaking up the juices of what it's been wrapped around for years.
lunaticcringeradio
Just Another Tool to Silence the Good Men
November 6, 2007 - 10:09 ET by gideonmjamesCalling conservatives "vitriolic" or "venomous" is just another technique liberals use to try to silence those who speak the truth.
As communists before them, a huge part of their energies and activities are devoted to SILENCING dissent, reason, and truth.
_____
If the good men are silent only the wicked are heard.
If the good men are idle the wicked will make the law of the land.
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for enough good men to do nothing.
Democracy fails when the good men are silent.
For truth to prevail the good men MUST speak boldly, fearlessly, and unceasingly.
The Ungodly MUST Be Rebuked
November 6, 2007 - 10:35 ET by gideonmjamesAs it is written ...
Titus 1:10-14
(10) For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, especially they of the circumcision [1st century Democrats]:
(11) Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
(12) One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, "The Cretians [1st century liberals] are always liars, evil beasts [kakos therion - injurious and venomous thorns in the flesh ... as Cain, Esau, Doeg, Elihu, and Caiphas], slow bellies [intellectual idiots, political busybodies].
(13) This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
(14) Not giving heed to Jewish fables [muthos - myths; false doctrines; lies], and commandments of men, that turn from the truth.
The Hillary Clinton's, Howard Dean's, Harry Reid's, Nancy Pelosi's, and Keith Olberman's of the world are to be REBUKED ... SHARPLY.
2 Samuel 22:27
With the pure thou wilt show thyself pure; and with the froward thou wilt show thyself unsavory.
Hebrews 12:11
Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous [correction is bold, confrontational, and not always pleasant] : nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby [unto those who heed the reproof and correction].
Democracy works only when the Truth and the good men prevail; otherwise, it is anarchy and rule by wicked men (and women).
what the...
November 6, 2007 - 16:09 ET by wizardjrWhat the f@@@! Can't these a@@holes pull their heads out of their a@@es long enough to see the real f@@@ing world!!! <ROFL><Smirk><Smirk>