That thumping sound you hear is the Los Angeles Times moving the goal posts in the global warming debate.
On November 22, while responding to the growing scandal about alleged proof that global warming is a hoax, the Times brushed it off with a puzzling claim that science should have no bearing on climate legislation.
What a difference a few leaked e-mail messages could make: just over a month ago, the exact same paper had insisted science was behind the push for regulation. Now with the validity of that science in doubt, the Times was quick to find a different angle.
In an article titled "A Climate Change Dust-up," writers Jim Tankersley and Henry Chu began with reassurance that the scandal was nothing to fear because the hacked e-mail messages would not make a difference either way:
Is it a "Warmist Conspiracy," or a case of an email being "taken completely out of context"?
Regardless, the latest dust-up over the science of climate change appears unlikely to affect the dynamics of either a pending debate in the Senate or international climate negotiations in Copenhagen next month.
The whole point of the meeting in Copenhagen has been to limit pollution that supposedly destroys the planet based on evidence gathered and purported by researchers specifically involved in the email scandal. If the very premise of global warming has possibly been exposed as a fraud, why would that not be of interest to those who want to legislate global warming?
Because, according to the Times, the fight to stop possibly nonexistent global warming would be about saving the economy:
But advocates of action to curb global warming dismiss those claims, and political leaders and analysts say the Senate bill to limit greenhouse gas emissions will sink or swim based on economics, not science.
"The scientists are going to fight about this for decades," said Robert Dillon, a spokesman for Sen. Lisa Murkowski of Alaska, one of several Senate Republicans who say they are open to some form of a climate bill. "We should be doing something to curb our emissions that would not harm the economy, and would in fact boost the economy," he said.
So the Times believed in doing something about emissions whether or not we knew that they were harmful. It was suddenly okay for the science to remain unsettled, and in fact, the Senate was encouraged to limit greenhouse gases even if science was unable to prove a connection between carbon dioxide emissions and temperature.
But if the entire logic of this effort to save the economy was based on the hope that green jobs would put Americans to work, someone should have told the Times that President Obama has already been funding green jobs without a climate bill.
Equally preposterous, nowhere did the article explain exactly how limiting a company's carbon dioxide output would cause it to expand payrolls.
Not to worry, for according to global warming activists it would all work with or without the data to back it up.
Most amazingly of all, though, was an explanation about the data offered by Phil Jones, one of the scientists involved in the email scandal. When asked about his use of the word "trick" when presenting data, Jones told the Times it was just clever wording:
In the 1999 e-mail, Jones wrote of using a "trick" to hide an apparent decline in recent global temperatures on a chart being prepared for use by a meteorological organization. But in a statement posted on the university's website Saturday, Jones said that the e-mail had been "taken completely out of context" and that there had been no misrepresentation of the data.
"The word 'trick' was used here colloquially as in a clever thing to do. It is ludicrous to suggest that it refers to anything untoward," Jones said.
The hard-hitting journalism force at the Times failed to ask how a trick was taken to mean anything other than a trick. What possible "colloquial" use of the word could have implied a trick that was not really a trick?
Thanks to the Times, Jones got away without having to expound.
This whole notion of scientific tricks being irrelevant to a major debate about international climate legislation represented a major change in thinking at the Times. It was just six weeks ago the paper criticized Bush for hiding scientific data that could be used to sway the debate over legislation.
Back then, science had everything to do with it:
The Environmental Protection Agency on Tuesday released a long-suppressed report by George W. Bush administration officials who had concluded -- based on science -- that the government should begin regulating greenhouse gas emissions because global warming posed serious risks to the country.
The report, known as an "endangerment finding," was done in 2007. The Bush White House refused to make it public because it opposed new government efforts to regulate the gases most scientists see as the major cause of global warming.
When scientific findings were there to warn that global warming would kill the planet, the Times was quick to support it; when science was later found to be riddled with tricks that tainted its credibility, climate legislation was suddenly all about fixing the economy.
This is one more example in the long list of ways the liberal media has played fast and loose with the global warming agenda.
Even when faced with plausible evidence the whole thing might be a fraud, global warming believers simply found a way to assert that evidence was not necessary.
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Comments Policy
Radical climate believers.
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 20:43 ET by ThisnThatRadical climate believers. Radical islam. Radical congress critters. What do they all have in common? I'll tell ya -- (1) a belief that only they are correct because they are oh-so-elite; (2) a hatred for any idea that threatens their status quo; (3) a total contempt for plain-speaking common sense people; and (4) a belief that they deserve to be rewarded for their deeds.
All three threaten our existance and way of life. All three need to be stopped.
__________
"mmm, mmm, mm. Barrack-Hussain-Øbama↓." - The liberals coolaid drinking song
If Science Doesn't Matter...........
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 20:43 ET by DaMama........then what exactly does this do to the debate between evolution and intelligent design?
If science doesn't matter ...
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 22:22 ET by CO2Maker... where does that leave Science in the Public Interest? or the Union of Concerned Scientists?
What about the Christian Scientists? And Scientology?
And Here We Have It...
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 20:44 ET by countmein5050Liberal logic and a hearty middle finger salute to any one thinking liberals intend to reverse course of back down in the face of incoming corruption. Not on your life. Liberals are feeling pretty sure of themselves to flip Americans off even as the damage is mounting. This is also a little lesson in proving how powerful they think the MSM is at this point in time. This is arrogance on a grander scale than Obama could ever have dreamed of...off the chain!!!
Comment on And here we have it...
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 21:31 ET by condolfYour comment was reminesent of the old poster of the eagle getting ready to pounce on the mouse and the mouse just flips him off. Caption: Last great act of defience.
Which is funny, because
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 20:46 ET by SlyrrWhich is funny, because right up until the scandal with the hacked emails broke, the looney left, Demorats in Washington and enviro-wacko-nazis from every corner of the globe were saying 'the debate is over' and 'science proves it', and 'you can't argue with the science'.
Now that the 'scientists' have been laid bare as scam artists trying to bilk billions of taxpayer dollars in 'grants' and also get billions from the vultures set to descend on Copenhagen to spread their lies, the liberal media is desperately scrambling to cover their lying backsides.
It could go down as one of the BIGGEST organized hoaxes of all time, and the media was right in there pimping it for all they were worth because it fit their agenda of 'wreck america and let the communists pick up the pieces once they take over'.
And some are still playing that angle. They're still saying '99% of all scientists and politicians agree' that we need higher taxes to stop global warming, as if their track record was something to be proud of.
Were these the same eggheads who claimed that once 2000 hit, the date rollover would cause the world's computers to explode and plunge the entire galaxy into some kind of wormhole?
Again I say, if the worlds scientists think it's such a problem, and if they're so smart, why don't they just INVENT something to fix it, like a 100mpg engine? Now I ain't no nook-yoo-lar genius, but I know that the world's eggheads brains aren't fueled by MY taxpayer dollars - they're fueled by ideas and innovation.
Let them invent their widgets and doo-dads to fix global warming if they think they're so smart - but let them do it on their OWN time and with their OWN money, not mine.
What was the response to the TANG scandal?
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 21:03 ET by CO2MakerAnd the response to Janet Cooke's "Jimmy's World" Pulitzer Prize winning fabricated series in the Washington Post? And to Rigoberta Menchu's biography that propelled her to the Nobel Peace Prize?
Basically it's, "Yeah, well, the facts are false and actually made up. But they tell the story of a greater truth." Or as the Vietnan War general put it, "It was necessary to bomb the truth in order to save it."
What can you do? They have made up their minds (1) that the threat of AGW is "real enough" to take drastic and harmful economic steps to stop it; and (b) that the U.S. is not exceptional in any way except in the fact that we use so much of the world's resources we must be at fault and therefore must perform a great deal of penance, namely, giving up the vigor and vitality of our society and economy.
Same with Dan Rather - they
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 23:07 ET by SlyrrSame with Dan Rather - they knew the documents were fake, but they ran the story anyway saying, 'we know these papers are bogus, but the ACCUSATIONS are true!'
Same with any Republican they target for smearing and character assassination. 'It's not the nature of the evidence, it's the seriousness of the charge'. Didn't matter that the accusations were totally fabricated - they destroyed careers and wrecked lives anyway based on the 'severity' of a rumor.
But when one of THEIR people or theories comes under scrutiny? It all gets flip-flopped. 'Oh, we can't afford to wait until things are proven, we have to act NOW regardless of what the truth is!'
These people are dangerous - and they mustn't be allowed to roam the halls of either learning - or power. Look at what they've done now. The kids they ruined in their indoctrination centers are now in Congress wrecking the place based on nothing but their scams and their corruption and their 'belief' that they're doing it all for a 'greater good'.
Hitler and his nazis thought they were acting for a greater good too - right down to the soldiers who worked the controls in the gas chambers.
Deniers
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 21:17 ET by ThisnThatThe biggest problem I'm seeing within the stolen e-mails -- and now the commentary on RealClimate -- is the lemming-like arrogance of these so-called AGW scientists. They are constantly using the term "Deniers". That is a pure political term, and is meant to put down others -- to put them in their place.
It's like looking at the inner workings of a cult. And as we all know, a cult has a closed mind. These scientists are looking at data -- and some say are manipulating data -- only from a single perspective. Any evidence to the contrary is summarily dismissed, because it's outside the cult's beliefs. That's a dangerous position to be in, because once the cult is exposed, it easily breaks apart. I'm hoping this break-in shines the light on these people, and that truth starts to enter the discussions.
__________
"mmm, mmm, mm. Barrack-Hussain-Øbama↓." - The liberals coolaid drinking song
Gibbons in the mist
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 20:49 ET by CO2MakerI never read Edward Gibbons' Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, a well regarded book back in my youth in the halcyon days of mid-20th century America. I read a few bits and pieces, but not the whole thing.
That's okay. I fear—I mean, I really fear, I dread to believe—that we are living the book. I never thought back in my salad days that I'd see the corruption of our social fabric and governmental structures that could be wrought by "bread and circuses," but that's exactly what we're looking at now: gummint bailouts, tax breaks, and entitlement programs as "rights" are the "bread" part, and the f****** medyophant broadcasters, pundits, and general purpose puppets and suck-ups are definitely the circus part.
Another episode of 'As the
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 20:49 ET by bigtimerAnother episode of 'As the algoreglobalwarming World Turns'
This breaking news has been ignored for the most part on the SCM...and will continue to do so.
Lies/....what Lies...Who me?
Matters not as long as agenda is accomplished.
Better yet...'Mission Accomplished.'
...as they pocket their jingle at our expense all the way to the bank.
Anyone really think heads are going to roll over any of this false info?
I'm not holding my breath...but thank goodness for the internet.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
This is about social
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 21:46 ET by d1carterThis is about social engineering and social justice. It has nothing to do with the science. So if the science is faulty, no problem.
d1... Exactly... Same
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 23:14 ET by bigtimerd1...
Exactly...
Same as OCare...it has nothing to do with caring about anyone's health.
Control/Power/Agenda
The enemy within is making end-roads. ..'10 can't come soon enough for me, and I'm at the age where I'm not looking for time to speed by.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
This man is lecturing the
Mon, 11/23/2009 - 08:59 ET by danboThis man is lecturing the rest of us about science.
No wonder he got climate wrong.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
" .....pay no attention
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 21:15 ET by MidAmerica" .....pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"
The Wizard of Gore
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 21:59 ET by GalvanicPrince Albert has already told us that the debate is over , so any revelations about the real scientific facts are irrelevent.
Remember it was Dan "Memo-gate" Rather who insisted that whether the alleged evidence was genuine or not didn't matter because the story they supposedly validated was true.
So, there you have Leftist Logic. No need for facts.
More proof it was never about science
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 21:17 ET by dboBut advocates of action to curb global warming ...say the Senate bill to limit
greenhouse gas emissions will sink or swim based on economics, not
science.
If all these new taxes and regulations are so good for the economy why is it necessary to sign binding legal international agreements? Wouldn't every country involved voluntarily make changes?
Because its about
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 21:25 ET by MidAmericaBecause its about wealth transfer from wealthy nations to poor nations. The worlds leftists want to set the world reset button to a hypothetical fresh start where everyone is positioned at the start line. You know, like obama told Joe-the-Plumber, they believe it's better when we spread the wealth around.
Crap & Tax, like TARP and Porkulus, is a complete scam
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 21:38 ET by R D HelmIt is not about saving the environment, the economy, or anything else.
It is about power and control, and if passed and signed into law it will be the final element of Obama's communist coup*.
This hideous bill is designed to control the remaining areas of your life that CommieCare doesn't.
CommieCare will, in part, be the government building a database on everything you eat, drink, smoke or live near.
Crap & Tax will be a parallel database cataloging which type of and how much energy you consume, when you consume it, and will ultimately allow the government to directly control it.
Been paying any attention to what those stoopid "Smart Planet" commercials are really all about?
It also contains enough hideous taxes/fees and God knows what else to pretty much destroy the parts of our free-market that might actually escape destruction by CommieCare.
It will also result in government goons coming to your house and inspecting pretty much anything they like.
There is no way that is going to happen where I reside.
BTW: Don't forget, this freedom, job and economy killing legislation from Hell has essentially already passed in the House. All it really needs now is Harry's blessing, and we're forked.
*I am no-longer referring to what is currently underway as a statist, Marxist, or even socialist coup. After all, Lenin himself said the ultimate goal of socialism is communism.
I'm just cutting out the middleman and getting right to the point.
-Dave
Our elected representatives have failed us.
Wow
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 21:45 ET by Free StinkerWow.
Wow again.
خال
The climate is always changing
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 21:49 ET by c5thenThe real debate is whether us humans have any bearing on it alt all or are like and ant on an elephant. The fact that the warming stopped in conjuction with the high point of the solar cycle is clear evidence that the Sun has many many more times the influence on the average temperature than any emisions that are occuring.
The global warming alarmists jummped on the idea because it fit right in with their political ideology that governments should control industry and the behavior of all citizens.They saw it as the best chance to get a single world uber-government to be superior to any national government. Then, when the data started to pull the carpet out from under their plan, they had to try and cover it up else they would look foolish and very unscientific.
Now thanks to, ironically, a hacker, we see that they degenerated into mere conspiritors in trying to hide the new data that was refuting their main theory and thus their pet project. Proving that scientists are mere people, no better or worse then any other and some have an agenda.
Throw 'da bums out!!!
Before it's too late.
www.loyaltoliberty.com
"...the Times brushed it
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 21:59 ET by rbosque"...the Times brushed it off with a puzzling claim that science should have no bearing on climate legislation."
But the primary force is still in effect, POLITICS. It's always been about the leftist agenda- always has been!
rbo... ...and always will
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 22:11 ET by bigtimerrbo...
...and always will be.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
The LAT and the rest of the
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 22:27 ET by celatorThe LAT and the rest of the MSM NEVER paid attention to the genuine science of climate change. Nothing new here.
But man oh man, this scandal of lies and corrupt scientists colluding to mislead the world on phony man-made global warming is going to create a huge sinkhole that will draw in the UN's IPCC, Gore, Obama, his science czar, the members of Congress who are obsessed with cap and trade, the Nobel Peace prize committee (Gore) and good grief who knows who else. This may be the largest scientific scandal in 500 years. Gore ought to be forced to give back his Nobel prize and the money he got with the prize.
Now here's the good news. Newspapers all over the world are covering this story in great, great depth. We will not need to depend on the US MSM for any information about this "follow the money" scandal--that's what it is at bottom.
If they try to slant the story in any way (and they will), they will continue to make fools of themselves.
No citizen's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, or property is safe as long as Obama is President of the United States.
Speaking of slant...
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 23:55 ET by trak65Did you see how the Nov. 22 WaPo portrayed this? First they put it on p. A-14, and then they present it like it was some sort of felony against fraudsters: "Electronic files that were stolen from a prominent climate research center and made public last week provide a rare glimpse into the behind-the-scenes battle to shape the public perception of global warming." (emphasis added)
If the e-mails had come from the Bush CIA or the Bush Defense Dept., the hackers would be noble "whistle blowers" and the sources would be subject to strict confidentiality in the name of freedom of the press.
Here Germany has it on page
Mon, 11/23/2009 - 08:36 ET by danboHere Germany has it on page 1.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
Die Welt is still not the
Mon, 11/23/2009 - 11:54 ET by NL207Die Welt is still not the 'mainstream' German press. When it makes the pages of Die Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, then I will be impressed. Even getting into Die Frankfurter Rundschau would be enough.
Climate prediction.
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 23:09 ET by danboI've delved into the tea leaves. (Every bit as accurate as Michael MannsTricks.)
I predict a period of reduced trollish, lecturing of Newbusters staff and posters about peer review, science, and consensus.
The occasional outbreaks of trollishness will be quickly laughed out as the baffons they are.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
The Fat Lady Has Sung
Mon, 11/23/2009 - 00:02 ET by dboI think it's safe to say that the climate realists have 62 new megabytes of trump cards. The alarmists have a new slogan:
Isn't that 62 megabytes the
Mon, 11/23/2009 - 08:44 ET by danboIsn't that 62 megabytes the zipped file?
There were also codes. They're starting to go through that over at Watt's up.
It's fun watching people defend and try to minimize this. Some of it is clueless and shows a lot of ignorance. Some as Mann, dig themselves in deeper.
"You lie!" Rep. Joe Wilson R-(SC)
Fasten your seatbelts
Mon, 11/23/2009 - 09:49 ET by dboIsn't that 62 megabytes the zipped file?
Right danbo. According to Lubos it's a 61.9 zip file that unpacks to 156 mb. The e-mails are only 7 mb of the total so the real fun is just beginning.
Al Gore is too big to fail.
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 23:32 ET by MidAmericaAl Gore is too big to fail.
MA... That's what Hussein
Sun, 11/22/2009 - 23:50 ET by bigtimerMA...
That's what Hussein thought as well.
...and I think I'm familiar with a current Prez who thinks he still 'Walks on Water'...hmm... going to be interesting in the upcoming years.
'Doubling down on stupid is not a particularly good idea'~Breitbart
These 'scientists' should
Mon, 11/23/2009 - 01:26 ET by ChadThese 'scientists' should all be tried as the first traitors to all of mankind.
~Chad
Cincinnati, OH
It never was about science
Mon, 11/23/2009 - 08:42 ET by 10ksnookerThe science is so flawed, that only ignorant Democrats could believe it in the first place. But now that it's a proved fraud, those ignorants will go on chanting .... mmmm, mmmm, mmmmnnnfff
It's all about the money. Stealing your money, the hoax was designed to just make you feel good about the theft.
Let Me Get This Straight
Mon, 11/23/2009 - 10:20 ET by DoktorFrankenSince intelligent folks knew this was a hoax from the start as soon as we saw all of the Alarmist's ''Scientific (*HORK*) Data'', this will STILL make no difference to our president and his Axis of Evil. Carbon will STILL be the bogeyman that will kill your children (more than abortions?) and rob this weak planet of it's Hussein given health.
(sarc)
Bow down and repent, all of you Extreme Right-Wing Terrorists!!! Cap and Trade will save us all regardless of it destroying our Global Economies. Didn't you all read Marx?
(/sarc)
Sarah Palin: The Most Dangerous Conservative In America
Kevin Trenberth whines
Mon, 11/23/2009 - 15:08 ET by JoeBobKevin Trenberth whines that email disseminators are cherry-picking and taking "out of context", but admits "language used by some colleagues in the hacked e-mails 'looks awkward at best,' particularly messages which criticize climate change skeptics."
You got caught. Deal with it.
Without recognizing the ordinances of Heaven, it is impossible to be a superior man. - Confucious
Good work Candance
Mon, 11/23/2009 - 15:17 ET by cajun2I would like to be informed if, in your research, you happen to find any Universities that are firing scientist from the e mail list. Wouldn't that be fun? Tnks