Just like Bill Maher, "Family Guy" creator Seth MacFarlane is discovering that atheist ridicule of Jesus Christ and Christianity draws nothing but yawns from today’s media elite. If you want an angry media mob, you need merely spit out "Barack Hussein Obama" at a McCain rally and watch the Guardians of Social Taste bring out the torches and pitchforks. But mocking Jesus? Ho hum.
On October 5, Fox’s Sunday night cartoon debuted an episode titled "I Dream of Jesus," a play on "I Dream of Jeannie." Get it? Jesus is a fairy tale, like a genie in a bottle. The title character, Peter Griffin wanders into a record shop, where he finds Jesus Christ minding the store. Jesus lies to Peter, trying to deny who he is, until Peter threatens to urinate on the albums of Christian artist Amy Grant. Jesus comes clear on his identity and explains he came to Earth "just to get away from the family... my dad just quit smoking and he’s a little on edge." What follows is an entire story that chronicles, in rather amazing fashion, how this lying, slacker Jesus is even dumber than Peter, the greatest idiot on animated television today.
Our Guardians of Social Taste would probably shut "Family Guy" down if it featured Peter Griffin as a demented Buddha, or maybe featured a drunken Mohammed, or God forbid – made fun of Barack Hussein Obama. But Seth MacFarlane hasn’t crossed the Anti-Defamation League, or the Council for American-Islamic Relations, or Obama’s "Fight the Smears" web page.
Millions of parents see TV critics of the major media as a sort of early warning system, alerting them to programming that would be unsuitable for children. So where were the TV critics in the face of this ugly anti-Christian bigotry? No one noticed, not the Washington Post, New York Times, Los Angeles Times, USA Today, Time, Newsweek, or NPR.
These media outlets probably would enjoy how Seth MacFarlane interrupted his story for a political aside. Peter asks Jesus to take him to the White House, where President Bush is proclaiming "The American people may have turned against the war, but I answer to a higher power. I answer to the power of Jesus Christ." Peter jumps in and replies "That’s funny, because I happen to have Jesus Christ right here." Jesus proclaims, "I heard what you were saying. You know nothing of my work. How you ever got to be president of anything is totally amazing." Speaking for the show’s creator, Peter then says, "Boy, wouldn’t it be great if life were like this?"
Peter insists Jesus shouldn’t merely hang out at the record shop unrecognized. "The world needs you, Jesus. It needs you like a guy who can’t get it up needs a distraction." Jesus the Slacker then goes on the Jay Leno show, becomes famous, and lets the fame go to his head.
Soon, Jesus Christ is appearing on the MTV Video Music Awards with the Pussycat Dolls, wearing gold chains and sunglasses like a rapper. He jokes to the MTV crowd about the singing group behind him. "It’s a pleasure to be here with you six interchangeable women. Last time I was down here, I only hung out with one whore."
Then Peter watches the news and hears, "Tonight’s top story: local record shop employee Jesus Christ was found in Mary Kate Olsen’s apartment this morning, face down and unconscious. Police revived and arrested the disoriented Jesus, who was quoted as saying Jews are responsible for all the world’s wars." This is an obvious slap directed at Mel Gibson, creator of "The Passion of The Christ."
Jesus calls Peter to bail him out of jail, where our idiot gets to lecture God the Son: "Jesus Christ, look at you. You had it all – money, fame, eternal life – and you blew it. You let it all go to your head." Jesus says, "I know, Peter. I guess it turns out that I'm just as human as anyone else." He claims, "This world's not ready for me yet, and I'm not ready for it. I don't know. Maybe I'll come down in another thousand years, when I'm more mature."
It’s amazing that this kind of junk is on national television. McFarlane’s script isn’t exactly engaging the Bible narratives. It sounds exactly like the brain droppings of a school-skipping twelve-year-old brat playing by himself in a closet with a plastic action figure. MacFarlane would claim his plot doesn’t demonize Jesus – he merely demystifies him, scrapes off his divinity. The people at Fox Entertainment clearly don’t care one iota about offending the millions of Christians who see Jesus as the central figure in their hopes for eternal salvation. To them, God is just an empty punch line.
Editor at Large
Comments Policy
Brent...EXACTLY RIGHT!!!
October 10, 2008 - 21:51 ET by TheSterYou know what the Hollywood Liberal Elite DID make a stink of??? The South Park scene where Spielberg and Lucas "rape" Indiana Jones. Still on DRUDGE:
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/showtracker/2008/10/south-park-vs-l.html
Also:
http://www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com/latest-south-park-hates-on-indy-4-will-paramount-spielberg-lucas-protest/
The bloggers are OFFENDED that THEIR GODS ( Spielberg and Lucas) were put in a NEGATIVE light!!! Amazing!
I hope you reply Brent!!! I'm honored to respond to you personally..and I love the "Brent vs. Colmes" arguments!!!
Ster.
Here is the youtube link - ADULT THEME CONTENT:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=south+park+indiana+jones&search_type=&aq=0&oq=south+park+indiana
A YouTube link to Episode Brent is Talking About...
October 10, 2008 - 21:57 ET by TheSterThis where Peter finds Jesus:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIK3GXdkxL0
Ster.
Ster,
October 10, 2008 - 23:54 ET by RESTLESS 1South Park usually gives it to both sides pretty good. I haven't watched in years, but I do remember them being fairly equal in their offending.
Funny, though, how the left can laugh at the right, but never themselves. They're above reproach, dontcha know.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Just like the Rug Rats (edit) the cartoon
October 11, 2008 - 00:05 ET by general companyI can not stand the voices, just makes me wonder what they would sound like if I stomped on them.
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
RL1
October 11, 2008 - 05:17 ET by DoktorFrankenCorrect. South Park did an episode lampooning Family Guy making fun of how their network 'buckled' under the pressure and censored the picture of Mohammad. (Cartman just wanted to have FG taken off the air - permanently - so he feigned disgust with how FG insulted Muslims and Mohammad.) All of the US decided to bury their heads in the sand when the FG episode aired so that they would not incur the wrath of the Muslims. A great episode of SP.
The creators of South Park have stated that they hate the Left more than the Right (Book - page 75) and their shows attest to that. However, my wife is still peeved at the one they did about Gibson and The Passion. Something about Mel's eyes.
South Park....
October 12, 2008 - 00:16 ET by MexNobamais a social satire and Christianity is not spared.
However in various episodes Jesus is depicted as an action hero who saves Santa Claus Muslim Terrorists, a member of the "Super Best Frends" a sort super hero team led by Moses but also including Bhudda, Mohammed, Joesph Smith, and Krishna, and a talk show host who shuns sensationalism for morality.
He constantly suplies spiritual direction to the four boys, and is never depicted as stupid, though sometimes his extreme honesty can come off as naive (such as when he boxes Satan.)
"Family Guy" itself has been a source of satire for South Park because of its weak plot lines. Cartman in particular despises the show and has tried to have it removed from television...
I have to say as a Catholic that I have never been all that offended by anything on South Park, and have laughed at a lot of the Catholic satire.
I find "Family Guy" to be such a poor show that it hasn't really bothered me either.
To quote the always savy Cartman "It's weak dude."
Well, Christianity Asked For It
October 10, 2008 - 22:31 ET by The7SticksThere's really no one to blame here but the culturally conservative Christian community themselves. I'm not passing the buck, I'm just saying that after years of these nutbergers who censored movies between the 1930s and 1950s and burning comic books in the 1950s, they kind of had it coming. (Okay, I'm generalizing. It was the Catholic Church in the United States that did most of the censorship and comic book burnings back then.) Nobody here is burning copies of the Bible, or desecrating the Eucharist (well, I believe neither South Park nor Family Guy have even done that) they are just mocking figures of the Christian faith, particularly Jesus Christ (Who I might add has also been ridiculed, though in different ways, on South Park, so Family Guy isn't alone in the whole satirization of Christianity.)
The point is, the culturally conservative community is going to have to get used to this for a couple more decades until we feel we have fully paid you back. Until then, revenge is a dish best served mockingly, whether it's on South Park, The Simpsons or Family Guy. I'm glad at least that no one is acting like these shows are aimed for children, though. That would be the ultimate insult.
Bull.
October 10, 2008 - 23:29 ET by Mike BrattonIs that really the best response you have?
"We were asking for it?"
So you really think these folks are ruminating about burned comic books and the Hays Office? Sure they are...
Oddly enough, Family Guy used to be funny. It started going south right about the time Seth & Co. wanted to have fun with Stewie's sexual preference.
Nowadays, no one thinks South Park, Family Guy, or The Simpsons are aimed at children. We do, however, know that they're aimed at the immature.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
We do, however, know that they're aimed at the immature.
October 10, 2008 - 23:51 ET by general companyVery good Mike, my 15yr old even said almost those exact words. Maybe that is why he would rather watch Japan cartoons?
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Mike,
October 10, 2008 - 23:56 ET by RESTLESS 1You weren't expecting a cogent post from the 7dicks now were you?
Oopsie, must be a typo...nope I got it right.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
*
October 12, 2008 - 16:44 ET by R D Helm*
Here's all I expect around NB.
October 11, 2008 - 00:24 ET by Mike BrattonI expect that people will make intelligent posts.
Obviously, I expect too much sometimes.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
Merde
October 11, 2008 - 00:56 ET by stratmanThe 7Sticks believes women that wear short skirts deserve being raped.
They have it coming, right?
Afterall, it's the logical extension of your deep analyis.
You better get used to plenty of mocking until we have fully paid you back.
7Sticks
October 11, 2008 - 05:03 ET by DoktorFrankenAnd, by your logic (?) the woman who gets raped asked for it as well? I am not a Christian but I find that the attacks on Christians have been childish, ignorant, and cowardly. The ''brave'' comedians, pundits, political cartoonists, and authors should try something really daring - like an exposé on Islam or even 0bama. You know, someone who would actually pose a threat to the person attempting to use their freedom of speech. Christians won't chop your head off or use political pressure to shut you down. (Ask Milt Rosenberg on WGN Radio and some folks in Missouri about this.)
All I'm saying is that things are way too one-sided (read or watch any news or entertainment media for examples) and that most of the attacks on Christians are unwarranted and childish.
What kind of special stupid are you?
October 11, 2008 - 15:34 ET by JWFHave you invented a new brand of stupid?
What possible bearing does the action of people 50 to 70 years ago possibly have on the decisions a cartoon show makes. That would be adults 50 to 70 years ago, making them at least 70 to 90 right now or more than likely dead!
And why generalize? Are we the slightest bit interested in your verbal spew? You got a point, make it.
Nobody here burning copies.. Huh? Then why point it out?
The point is... Oh good, we get to wait until the 2nd paragraph of your loopy screed before you actually make a point. Guess what? Too late. No one cares. Bye 7-what does WTH call you again?
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Hello Sticks
October 11, 2008 - 15:30 ET by cocodrieI am catholic and grew up in the 40's and 50's. The Catholic church did not crusade for censorship but did everything it could within the church to keep its members out of sin. If you don't know the meaning of the word sin maybe you should look it up. Continue mocking Jesus Christ and someday you will find yourself heading down the river Sticks. But beware it is the river of no returm.
What a hypocrite!
October 12, 2008 - 13:14 ET by CobraMan"they kind of had it coming."
What a hypocrite! "Payback" isn't justice; it's a continuation of injustice. Like the old saying says, Two wrongs never make a right.
Obama: My job is above my pay grade
Not to worry...it's not a cartoon of Mohhamed.
October 10, 2008 - 22:46 ET byIf you're offended, then you must defend those who also get offended by religious ridicule. The Muslims are easily offended by their prophet being ridiculed. If God were offended by these programs he would not have created them...I guess he has a sense of humor...thank you, God!
Ubercon
Notaconservative
October 10, 2008 - 23:47 ET by RESTLESS 1Actually, I don't have to defend any fake religions. There is only one true religion as taught by the Bible, and Islam ain't it. Neither is Buddhism, Hinduism, or atheism.
Fear not though, God has a strong sense of humor and is not easily offended by those that don't matter, so neither am I.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Religous intolerance is a
October 11, 2008 - 00:15 ET by JesseJacksonIVReligous intolerance is a lot more dangerous than a cartoon poking a little fun at Jesus.
Interesting.
October 11, 2008 - 00:20 ET by Mike BrattonSo which is worse, IV? Religious intolerance, or intolerance of religion?
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
Believing "your" is the
October 11, 2008 - 00:33 ET by JesseJacksonIVBelieving "your" is the only true God is very very dangerous.
There are some folks in the moutains of Pakistan who think that way. Any Christain who thinks that way is just as wrong as any radiacal Muslim.
So, you're into syncretism?
October 11, 2008 - 01:19 ET by Mike BrattonNot at all surprising.
Tell me, IV, do you know anything at all about Jesus Christ, or about Christianity? Because there's something your analysis is missing: Every Christian "thinks that way" because that's a fundamental teaching of Christianity. One of the ways we know that Barack "I've got a bracelet, too!!" Hussein Obama is not a Christian is that he has publicly declared that Jesus is not "the only true God".
And comparing Christianity to Islam is one of the weakest responses in the history of debate. Christianity is about a personal, saving relationship with God, while Islam isn't even a religion, but rather a political and governmental system that advocates death for those who resist it.
There's a difference. If you'd like to know more, just let me know.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
MB...
October 11, 2008 - 01:27 ET by TheSter< plays tape of JOY BAYER >
"Christians are worse than the TALI BAN"
< Ster puts Beer through TV>
Ster.
Can you book me on The Skew... er, The View?
October 11, 2008 - 01:39 ET by Mike BrattonI'd love to have a conversation with Joy (and the other misinformed women there) to deal with the amazing lack of understanding with regard to Christianity.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
Ster
October 11, 2008 - 01:42 ET by MrShyNo offense, but why would anyone have a tape of Joy Bayer? :p
NOW PLAYING:
Governor Palin Get Your Gun
Sorry Shy....
October 11, 2008 - 02:02 ET by TheSterFor those of us under 40...
...i did a 'clicky on that there majik video INTERNETS thinige...
Joy Bayer waz likes...
...a talkin' Chia Pet ..makn' them noises like a Kitten in a Microwave...
...didn' know how to stop it...kitty jus' kep turnin'...an'...turnin' ...had ta stan' ther whatch kitty ....turnin...in that there Microwave..wouldn't stop makin noises "TALLLLY BANNNNNNN".
Ster.
Ster...Well for thse of us
October 11, 2008 - 02:09 ET by bigtimerSter...Well for thse of us over 40...why did you just post this?
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
BT...
October 11, 2008 - 02:16 ET by TheSterA play off "tape" and youtube.
In our time...I'd have "Joy Bayer" on BETAMAX...kids under 40 use that "internets". Trust me..."Joy Bayer" would have been a totally different TAPE back then...nuf said.
Ster.
Not enough said for me...I
October 11, 2008 - 02:22 ET by bigtimerNot enough said for me...I don't care to hear about kitttens in a micro from you here.
'nuff said.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
BT..Relax SPAZ...I got it from a movie!!!
October 11, 2008 - 02:43 ET by TheSterI'm a Cat person...they match my personalty. Dogs are ok too..I'm just not gonna wake up at 6am to walk them.
U ok BT??? I don't like this BAIL OUT at all. I did NOT vote for McC in the primaries....
I WAS PART OF OPERATION CHAOS...AUSTIN CHAPTER.
I helped to keep Hillary in to damage Bambi!!! Fun stuff.
Ster.
Ster
October 11, 2008 - 02:55 ET by MrShyI don't think, honestly, anything matches your personality.
And that's a compliment, btw. :)
NOW PLAYING:
Governor Palin Get Your Gun
Shy...
October 11, 2008 - 03:01 ET by TheSterU are starting to know me!!!
hehehehe....
Ster.
ps: I just Sh!t in your shoe...stuff cats can do.
Ster
October 11, 2008 - 03:04 ET by MrShyLooks like only one person can call BT "SPAZ" and not feel her wrath... so, indeed, you are special.
:)
NOW PLAYING:
Governor Palin Get Your Gun
Shy??? Did I just avoid Death??
October 11, 2008 - 04:55 ET by TheSterI must have just used one of my cat's 9 lives....
<buying fresh Salmon>
...kitty looks happy...but not interested in anything that I am doing...ever...
Ster.
<>
October 11, 2008 - 05:07 ET by DoktorFrankenThis
is
too
thin
to
read.
...
October 11, 2008 - 05:34 ET by TheSterwhat
is
your
problem?
Ster.
I'm fine Ster. ...Now
October 11, 2008 - 02:58 ET by bigtimerI'm fine Ster.
...Now you...YOU are questionable.
....IMHO. :-)
Feel safe...it's just one humble opinion.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
Faith is a personal
October 11, 2008 - 02:10 ET by JesseJacksonIVFaith is a personal thing. Just because a Hindu, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist believe in something else doesn't make them wrong or their religions fake.
I wonder if Brent watched the episodes of Family Guy that made fun of other religions? Did he write a column when they have done episodes using many Jewish stereotypes? It's like the late Issac Hayes only having a problem with South Park when they made fun of Scientology, ignoring all the humor in the shows history.
It's a cartoon that satires many things, religion, race, politics. At some point it will satire something you believe in. Don't take it so seriously.
Ok...that's IT JJ !!!
October 11, 2008 - 01:21 ET by TheSterI just LOVE this "Tolerance" argument by LIBERALS!!!!
I think Dr. Michael Savage said ... there are 13 global conflicts right now...12 are Muslims not "TOLERATING" their neighbors...ie: people that are NOT Muslim!!!
Before you T-OFF on me JJ...I grew up in SAUDI ARABIA from 1976 to 1991...My parents worked for ARAMCO. I lived in DHAHRAN. I got a point of reference!!! I'm from California...Mom got married to an engineer when I was in 4th grade, and moved to SA.
Don't try to run that "INTOLLERANCE" CRAP ON ME!!!
Do your research and don't be a Hypocrite!!!
Remember when "I'm a Dinner Salad" spoke at Columbia???
The LIBS didn't GIVE A CRAP about Monkey Boy BASHING THE USA...
...BUT they went NUTS when he said "THERE ARE NO GAYS IN IRAN"...
<SHOWS PIC OF GAY HANGING DEAD FROM LIGHT POLE IN IRAN>
"Tolerance"...My @ss.
Ster.
Intolerance of anyones
October 11, 2008 - 02:15 ET by JesseJacksonIVIntolerance of anyones religion is wrong. That's the point I have made.
JJ...ok...but...
October 11, 2008 - 02:28 ET by TheSterYour lack of criticism of the "M" religion...and BASHING of the "C" religion...is disturbing.
This is NOT a slam on you...Seriously...
Do you have a criticism of the "M" religion. Is there fairness to go both ways?? I can tell you personally what Christians had to go through in DHAHRAN just to hold mass in an American compound.
Just give me your thoughts on Tolerance...does it go BOTH ways??
Lets just debate...I'm curious...
BTW - I do not type for CRAP...so typing this much takes me 3 times longer than you...so I need to practice...AND take this as a sign that I'm ready to hear your opinion.
Ster.
How have I bashed
October 11, 2008 - 02:33 ET by JesseJacksonIVHow have I bashed Christianity? It's been pretty clear in my posts that I think intolerance of ANY religion is wrong.
JJIV
October 11, 2008 - 02:42 ET by MrShyWhile you're over here volleying with Cap Man Ster (all in good lovin' jest, Ster! :)) Mike, above, provided you with a very clear distinction of the two opposing definitions of "tolerance", which pretty much ends this discussion, I think:
Christianity is about a personal, saving relationship with God, while Islam isn't even a religion, but rather a political and governmental system that advocates death for those who resist it.
There's a difference. If you'd like to know more, just let me know.
NOW PLAYING:
Governor Palin Get Your Gun
Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims,
October 11, 2008 - 02:45 ET by JesseJacksonIVHindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Jews believe something else. Are they wrong or fakes or do they just have different beliefs than you?
Disagreeing with someones beliefs about something is reasonable. But to dismiss them as fake isn't very reasonable.
"But to dismiss them as fake
October 11, 2008 - 02:53 ET by MrShy"But to dismiss them as fake isn't very reasonable."
Yes, but dismissing them as fake is not the same as killing them.
We're trying to get you to understand the nitty-gritty of how Islam is essentially in a very dangerous class all it's own.
No, most Muslims do not go out and kill, but just me saying that sounds absurd and frightening, because we have clearly seen that almost all of those who DO go around blowing things and people up and demanding the death of jews and infidels, well, are of the Muslim faith.
NOW PLAYING:
Governor Palin Get Your Gun
The small percantage of the
October 11, 2008 - 03:09 ET by JesseJacksonIVThe small percentage of the Muslim faith who want to kill non-Muslims are vile people. But the majority of Muslims who aren't killing people deserve to be treated with repect and not viewed as having a fake religion.
The problems is that there are Christians out there who think their beliefs are right and other peoples are wrong or fake. I'm not talking about the radical Muslim terrorist, but any other religion.
The technical term for your post, IV...
October 11, 2008 - 10:05 ET by Mike Bratton...is "missing the point."
We're not (or, at least I'm not) talking about the difference between "good" Muslims and "vile" Muslims, but rather the difference between the beneficial, well-grounded belief system of Christianity and the diabolical governmental system known as Islam.
Over the years, I've known a number of Muslims who I'm certain wouldn't hurt a fly; that doesn't make their faux religion any more substantive.
Christianity is unique among belief systems in that its foundation is not one of human ascention, but of God's condescention. And by definition, again, all of us Christians know that Christianity is right and everything else is wrong--and ultimately futile. And isn't it interesting that those of us who take Christianity seriously don't riot when our beliefs are attacked? Can you say the same about people who take other, human-constructed belief systems seriously?
If you'd like to know more about what Christianity really is, I'm at your disposal.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
More stupidity.
October 12, 2008 - 17:19 ET by Indiana Joe"Believing "your" is the only true God is very very dangerous."
No, Einstein, that's called "monotheism." As opposed to "polytheism." Get it?
You can't believe in one God if you believe there are other "gods" that are just as valid. If you think your religion is no more true than other religions, then you don't really believe in your religion. You just belong to a social club.
Can you understand that concept? Do you really have to pretend to not understand that just to try to make yourself think you're making some deep point here? Because you're not.
A difference, the difference in this context, is that Muslims would burn down the offices of a company that offended them. Don't argue it, they've done it. They'd kill the perpetrators if they could. Don't argue, they've done it.
On the other hand, Christians just bitch about it. And those who wouldn't dare criticize the Muslims for their response feel free to mock Christians for bitching. Because they're not afraid that the Christians would kill them.
Tell you what, sport. You want to advise people on how they should deal with religion-mocking? Tell it to the Muslims. Hey, if you convince them, you've really accomplished something. Probably saved some lives, even. But if they don't want to hear it, watch your back.
I hear they do a little more than just mock you in return.
The Democrat Party: Creating, Defending and Using Slavery, Jim Crow and Segregation for Over 150 Years... and Counting.
JJIV
October 11, 2008 - 00:28 ET by RESTLESS 1Care to explain how my belief of in one faith makes me "intolerant" of other faiths. I just said I don't have to defend other faiths from offense, and in the same post said I do not take offense from the ridicule of mine. I am stronger than that and so is my God. If the rest are weaker, so be it.
And, I have not, nor would I condone, limitations on anyone's worship. If someone wants to claim the dung beetle as their god, I don't care. I don't believe they are correct, but that does not make me intolerant. Open a dictionary, will you.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
You called them fake
October 11, 2008 - 00:36 ET by JesseJacksonIVYou called them fake religions, that's not exactly being very tolerant. You probably wouldn't be very pleased if a Muslim, Jew or Hindu called Christianity fake.
They are fake religions
October 11, 2008 - 01:31 ET by RESTLESS 1And I'm not going any farther with this as we NB'ers are under strict orders not to discuss the merits of religion.
I don't see you calling out muslims for their intolerance. Intolerance of women, gays, non-muslims. Tolerance does not impart agreement. If you mean I have to accept their beliefs as truth to be considered "tolerant", then again, I suggest you pick up a dictionary and get back to me.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
I said it's wrong for a
October 11, 2008 - 02:03 ET by JesseJacksonIVI said it's wrong for a Christian to think "their" God is the true God and I said it's just as wrong if a radical Muslim did it too.
JJIV
October 11, 2008 - 02:11 ET by RESTLESS 1Way to dodge there. The whole concept is apparently above your pay grade.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
How did I dodge anything?
October 11, 2008 - 02:18 ET by JesseJacksonIVHow did I dodge anything? You said I didn't call out Muslims for their intolerance, yet I said it was wrong when they did it too.
Short version, a Christian
October 12, 2008 - 17:27 ET by Indiana JoeShort version, a Christian who doesn't "think 'their' God is the true God" is not a faithful Christian. I mean, don't you understand how this "religion" thing works?
For the long version, see above.
Really, it's not that hard to understand.
The Democrat Party: Creating, Defending and Using Slavery, Jim Crow and Segregation for Over 150 Years... and Counting.
Joe
October 12, 2008 - 17:36 ET by cocodrieThat is extremely hard for a liberal to understand - almost impossible.
Atheism is a religion?!?
October 11, 2008 - 13:27 ET byRestless1,
You're considered an infidel by Islamic standards. Your considered a gentile according to Judaism. Your considered delusional by atheists. The list continues... To claim your God is better than someone else's God, to claim your (insert religion) book is far superior to someone else's (insert religion) book shows an ignorance and intolerance for other's delusional state. As for atheism...
Atheism, by definition, is the absence of theism. If you cannot
say "I believe in a Deity/God/Supreme Being" then you are
an atheist. If you are not a theist, then you are
an atheist.
I hope that helps...Believe what you want to believe just realize others have the same strong views about you and your religion. Calling other religions fake religions according to your belief system somehow justifies your position and denigrates theirs? Please save the hate for your own judgment day...
God is listening.
Ubercon
Geez!!! You trolls are dense.
October 11, 2008 - 20:42 ET by RESTLESS 1The WHOLE POINT is that, yes, they believe and behave how they want toward Christians, and yet is see none beheading innocent people on the internet, blowing up buildings, sending suicide bombers... That comes from a deeper resolve from me in my faith, than they have in theirs. Why do you suppose that is?
As for atheisme yes it could, by definition, be considered a religion. While most be people do indeed infer a belief in a god from the word religion, a devout disbelief in a god would qualify as well.
I swear, you trolls really need to take my advice and open a dictionary. Start with the first word, and work your way through.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Yes, actually, atheism is a religion.
October 11, 2008 - 22:09 ET by Mike BrattonEveryone believes in something--everyone invests their faith someplace.
Atheism is just narcissism with a better haircut; atheism's "supreme being" resides in the atheist's mirror.
The matter at hand, Con, is one of objective truth, rather than subjective opinion. It is about the questions of life, and where to find the answers. Buddhism has no answers. Islam has no answers. Atheism has no answers.
In the words of the song, "Nobody's right if everybody's wrong." But is everybody wrong?
No.
Christianity is different, unique, and objectively right.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
Athiests have faith that
October 11, 2008 - 22:14 ET by celatorAtheists have faith that there is no God. Ironic, no?
Mike,
October 11, 2008 - 22:26 ET by RESTLESS 1Are you as tired as I am of explaining these things to dingbats?
Just wondering.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Sometimes it gets fatiguing, yes.
October 13, 2008 - 10:39 ET by Mike BrattonBut there's always the possibility that it may be the first time someone's heard the response you give.
You never know. So, that keeps me plugging along.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
Incorrect, wrong, and mistaken.
October 12, 2008 - 12:46 ET byMikeB...RT1...et al,
A few questions and thoughts for you to ponder...
There is a big difference between positively believing that
a thing does not exist, and simply lacking belief in it's existence.
In many cases, atheists will say "That God does not exist",
not because they choose to do so, but because, from the description
of the God, it cannot exist due to contradictory attributes.
In the same way that a square circle cannot (and therefore does not)
exist, a God defined as (for example) all-knowing, yet cannot see into
the future, cannot and does not exist because the definition is self-contradictory.
If you describe your God with self-contradicting attributes which make
it logically impossible, then we may safely say that such a thing does
not exist as described. This is not faith - this is reason.
If someone asked you about unicorns, would you say "I believe
there are no unicorns", or would it be more honest to say "I
do not believe in unicorns"? These are two different answers. Nobody
disbelieves in unicorns purely as a matter of personal faith.
Again, apply the same reasoning to the Gods of other religions.
Example : if you are a Christian, do you believe the Hindu God
Ganesh does not exist? Or do you not believe in Ganesh?
If you believe that unicorns do not exist, then may we say that
you are a member of the "No unicorns" religion? Is it a matter
of faith that unicorns do not exist? Can we come along to your non-unicorn
church with you tomorrow?
If you are a Christian, do you believe Ganesh does not exist?
Why, then you must be a devout follower of the "No Ganesh"
faith!
Do you see where this is going?
If someone is not believing in your God is a faith, then you not believing
in other Gods is an equal faith. How many Christians do you know who
would say they do not believe in other Gods as a matter of faith?
If atheism with respect to your deity is a religion, then
your atheism with respect to other deities is also a religion.
How does atheism differ from religion and faith?
No belief in...God, prayers, church, temples, holy books, scripture, priests, religious authorities/ leaders, the supernatural which include angels and devils, miracles, afterlife, holy wars, heaven/hell, lifestyle restrictions(dress, diet, marriage, etc.), supernatural origins of the universe and/or humans, the soul, murderous fundamentalist extremists, street preachers, regular ceremonies/acts of worship, sin, blasphemy, we are God's chosen people...etc.
What don't you get?
I don't need saving nor would I espouse any such thing on anyone.
As for you being a Christian...shouldn't you practice quietly and in the privacy of your own closet without anyone ever knowing since it is written in the Bible? It's supposedly between you and your God...that's it. No need for you to judge others...
Ubercon
cherry picking ube and you
October 12, 2008 - 13:02 ET bycherry picking ube and you know it-------
1) iff no 'god' is logically consistant
2) go to all the world..........
both of your assertions only tell half the tale
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -Chief Justice John Roberts
Now, now...
October 12, 2008 - 13:13 ET bybotg,
Why is it so hard to comprehend? Proof is all you need.
No proof...poof!
Let's start with Unicorns first... Do you believe in them?
Ubercon
ube
October 12, 2008 - 13:53 ET bydo you misunderstand --- iff is not a typo? i comprehend your point just fine thanks --- not my day to teach you, figure out the inconsistancy in your assertions yourself, you wouldn't believe me anyway.
do you believe in quarks and mesons?? Not all proof is direct.
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -Chief Justice John Roberts
Deflection...sweet!
October 12, 2008 - 14:05 ET bybotg,
Tough times, huh? "Inconsistency" in my assertions...How about explaining your position on my assertions? It seems to have hit a nerve...shall we call it Sunday School. I made the statements...time for you to knock 'em down if you can. I would love to answer your questions on quarks and mesons, once we establish your position on supernatural phenomena...or is it too hard for mere mortals to think of and comprehend the unknown?
Ubercon
no deflection ube
October 12, 2008 - 14:24 ET byyou're just not that special. just not bothering with you today, come back after you've done your homework and completed your assertions. Your only telling half the story and should know that.
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -Chief Justice John Roberts
botg, It seems you're
October 12, 2008 - 14:34 ET bybotg,
It seems you're willing to talk, but not to listen, to instigate, but not respond, are you offering possible prolegomena, and still no evidence of things not seen. My homework? When was it assigned by you? botg, you're unwillingness and unreasonable manner only shows a lack of understanding on your part. Please save the drama. Thanks for your trolling.
Ubercon
surely ube is the man and
October 12, 2008 - 14:42 ET bysurely ube is the man and wisdom will die with him
i've given you enuf to go on, it's your choice whether or not to pursue or stay agnostic (or ignorant it's the same root)
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -Chief Justice John Roberts
Free will...thanks, botg!
October 12, 2008 - 14:55 ET bybotg,
Am I damned to hell, botg, for not believing in you? Thanks for granting me "free will" and I thought God was the only one.
<hands clapping>
Wonderful, absolute wonderful lines of thoughtful answers to my questions...
Unicorns? Do you believe in them or not? It was a simple question.
We all die, botg. I'd like to say you're a man, yet, by granting me "free will" I must now regard you as a God. Yet, when I question the existence I get attacked for my question? Hmmm...not a very nice God I would want to believe.
Ubercon
uh, ube
October 12, 2008 - 14:59 ET byi think you put the wrong mushrooms on your pizza
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -Chief Justice John Roberts
Some cultures believe that's the only way to see God!
October 12, 2008 - 15:08 ET bybotg,
No wonder religious types hate the altered states of reality by way of drugs! We should all be able to see God without any drugs...alcohol is okay, though! Just words and the euphoria of the spirit taking over our bodies and souls! Can I get an "Amen!"? Lay your hands on me so I can be like Sarah Palin and receive the spirit of the Lord! (It all looks a little ridiculous when you type it out...yet, people believe! WOW!)
God created mushrooms for our enjoyment, correct?
Ubercon
Uberkah
October 12, 2008 - 15:39 ET by Cool ArrowGod also created Hemlock and Asbestos. For your enjoyment.
Hemlock...Socrates...the questions...Ahhh...the questions!
October 12, 2008 - 15:52 ET byCA,
"An unexamined life is not worth living."
One of my favorite quotations...of all time.
Ubercon
»→ Paradoxically
October 12, 2008 - 15:59 ET by Cool ArrowThe quote has a certain commutative quality to it.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
Cool, I would say
October 12, 2008 - 16:03 ET by hydrodynDMCool,
I would say "ironically" but that doesn't seem right either.
Sooo...
October 12, 2008 - 16:12 ET byCA,
"An unlived life is not worth examining."
I didn't take you for being a supporter of abortion. Well, that just beats all!
Ubercon
»→ Ubercon
October 12, 2008 - 16:30 ET by Cool ArrowYou're referring to the wrong life.
The baby in the womb is doing everything it can to survive. The mother, on the other hand is defying the laws of Nature and God.
I'm pretty sure Socrates was referring to introspection rather than examination by an external observer.
Plankton have been around for eons. Did they achieve worth only when Man discovered them?
Abalone has worth to sea lions, who themselves are of some worth to whales. Not sure to what extent an abalone's examination of plankton (or whatever they eat) is all that important.
But it's all life. And it's all been meaningful since before man bothered to notice.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
botg, I think we need to start referring to Uber as Goober:
October 12, 2008 - 16:12 ET by R D Helm-Dave
Barrack Hussein Obama must be defeated.
Shouldn't you be doing a job search...
October 12, 2008 - 16:15 ET byDave,
I'm praying for you to find something...God has a plan for you.
Peace!
Ubercon
Uber. LOL-I'm just rattling your cage.
October 12, 2008 - 16:30 ET by R D HelmDave
Barrack Hussein Obama must be defeated.
»→ Ubercon
October 12, 2008 - 16:32 ET by Cool ArrowThat sh*t's funny! I don't care who you are. - Larry the Cable Guy
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
Dave
October 12, 2008 - 17:45 ET bymaybe Rube would be better??
Rube Goldberg
–noun 1.having a fantastically complicated, improvised appearance: a Rube Goldberg arrangement of flasks and test tubes.
2.deviously complex and impractical: a Rube Goldberg scheme for reducing taxes.
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -Chief Justice John Roberts
Ube
October 12, 2008 - 13:06 ET by cocodrieThank you for the most convoluted piece of educated idiocy I have ever read
Coco, Please
October 12, 2008 - 13:31 ET byCoco,
Please elaborate...or will you just say it's a waste of time with no basis to your claim.
Do you believe in Unicorns?
Ubercon
UBE
October 12, 2008 - 13:58 ET by cocodrie"In the same way that a square circle cannot [and therefore does not] exist, a God defined as [for example] all-knowing, yet cannot see into the future, cannot and does not exist because the definition is self contradictory." A square and a circle exist as two distinct entities and have no relevance here. God is all-knowing and CAN see into the future [no contradiction here] therefore God exists.
Your statement lacks an understanding of sorts...
October 12, 2008 - 14:13 ET byCoco,
Just for a simple debate if possible...
God is all-knowing and CAN see into the future [no contradiction here] therefore God exists.
Standing by this statement...there seems to be a plan in place for everything, correct?
Ubercon
I understand how you set up
October 12, 2008 - 14:50 ET by cocodrieI understand how you set up a false premise using distortions and misrepresentation of facts then proceed to discredit your own misrepresentations. I think we have completed your circle and touched all four corners of your square on this one.
Ubercon, You suggest that
October 12, 2008 - 15:32 ET by hydrodynDMUbercon,
You suggest that some simply don't believe in a supreme being as a result of a perceived contradiction in the definition of "God". The lack of a belief isn't the result of "faith" in that case, but simply the act of not accepting contradictions as true.
The problem is that if God is an objectively real entity, then problems (or contradictions) in the characterization of God does not require a disbelief in God. I think your error here is displayed by your use of the "square circle" analogy.
A "square circle" entails a contradiction because of how a circle is defined - in the same way that a married bachelor is a contradiction. However, an entity like "God" is assumed by most of faith to be an existing entity - not simply a defined thing. In this case, descriptions of "God" can be wrong or even contradictory, but that doesn't require anyone to accept that no such entity exists.
People thought that the Earth (more or less a sphere) was flat at one time. A flat sphere is a contradiction. By your reasoning, people where justified in accepting that there was no Earth.
But, of course, that isn't the right way to think about it. It's just that at one time, some believed something about the Earth that was incorrect.
Your unicorn example seems to conflate ideas of atheism and agnosticism. I have no reason to believe unicorns exist but I can't say for sure that they don't. In fact, it's impossible to empirically prove the non-existence of things. So I'm agnostic on the topic. An atheist would say they don't exist - but since they can't really prove that empirically (assuming you accept empirical evidence as a basis for truth or "proof"), it's a statement of faith.
Hmmm...
October 12, 2008 - 16:07 ET byHydro,
No belief in...God, prayers, church, temples, holy
books, scripture, priests, religious authorities/ leaders, the
supernatural which include angels and devils, miracles, afterlife, holy
wars, heaven/hell, lifestyle restrictions(dress, diet, marriage, etc.),
supernatural origins of the universe and/or humans, the soul, murderous
fundamentalist extremists, street preachers, regular ceremonies/acts of
worship, sin, blasphemy, we are God's chosen people...etc.
I'm okay with this statement for the rest of my life...
How could I prove something only existing as an imaginary being in your mind doesn't exist? Asking me to prove the existence of your God does not prove the existence of your God. The burden of proof is on you, not me. I am not here to push an agenda, or spout on about atheism. My original point was to say atheism is not a religion. That's it. Try and twist the definition all you want, it stands to reason it is not a religion, period.
Now, I've got to go out and wander aimlessly with no hope for my salvation...God, are you listening?
Peace,
Ubercon
Ubercon, How could I
October 12, 2008 - 16:27 ET by hydrodynDMUbercon,
Not sure what this means - I think you left out some words.
Read my post again. I never once used the word "religion". I was pointing out what I thought to be bad analogy in your argument.
If you are an atheist and assert that there is no supreme being, you are basing that on faith. That obviously doesn't make atheism a religion (unless you think faith alone is a necessary and sufficient condition for the definition of a religion, which I think most would disagree with). So we agree on that.
Also, I'm agnostic, so there is no need for me to define or defend a God.
You shouldn't jump to conclusions about someone who is critical of something you post.
P.S. You never commented on the substance of my reply to you.
»→ Square Circle
October 12, 2008 - 16:42 ET by Cool ArrowA cylinder with a diameter of 1" and a height of 1" might easily be described as a square circle if viewed from the side.
It is only when we add specificity that descriptions fail.
Though I wax philosophical, it does not mean I am intelligent.
When I was five, I thought a jet leaving a vopor trail was a skyscraper. Still makes more sense than its established definition.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
Cool, Though I wax
October 12, 2008 - 16:49 ET by hydrodynDMCool,
Don't worry, Cool. I would never accuse you of that ;)
»→ Thanks hydro
October 12, 2008 - 16:53 ET by Cool ArrowOnly an effete snob would let his education go to his head.
I am neither.
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
cool i thought
October 12, 2008 - 16:53 ET byyou were headed toward Gorilla Monsoon!!!
and the timekeeper at the bell wee willy webber
“The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race.” -Chief Justice John Roberts
»→ Gorilla Monsoon
October 12, 2008 - 16:56 ET by Cool ArrowIs he still the raining champ?
LYDSEXICS UNTIE!
"No belief in...God,
October 12, 2008 - 21:56 ET by stratmanYour belief is flawed.
There are murderous fundamentalist extremists. Ask the families of those beheaded in Iraq or read the words of the perpetrators of these murders.
You believe you define yourself by your own means. Then you extend that flawed belief onto others. You belief there are no murderous extremists. The fallacy of your statement is that you alone define what others are - there is no room for others to define who they are themselves.
This is arrogance, and, in the case of self-referential fundamentalists who also murder using extreme rationale, a dangerous denial of reality.
Similarly, there have been holy wars in history and there are most definitely street preachers everyday somewhere on the planet. It matters not that you do not agree, the participants themselves defined it as such.
The balance of your disbelief is a religion unto itself. You can neither prove nor disprove your position. Your disbelief is a faith of absence. The absence of proof is not proof of absence on this topic.
Color yourself "lucky", sorry, randomly situated, you live in a country that affords you the ability to believe in nothing, to practice your absence religion, without fear of loss of liberty and life.
"My original point was to say atheism is not a religion."
October 13, 2008 - 08:55 ET by Indiana JoeSorry, that's wrong. Atheism is every bit as much a religion as theism. It's another belief system. Theism believes there is a God or gods. Atheism believes there is no God or gods. And if you don't buy that, how can you defend a viewpoint (atheism) without "believing" it? Just for the record, lots of religions believe they know "the facts."
"Non-theism" would be a better definition of not believing (note the difference between "believing there's no God," and "not believing there is a God") one way or the other. But we generally use "agnostic" to mean "I'm not sure."
A kind of religious "undecided voter."
The Democrat Party: Creating, Defending and Using Slavery, Jim Crow and Segregation for Over 150 Years... and Counting.
Uber
October 12, 2008 - 23:05 ET by RESTLESS 1"There is a big difference between positively believing that
a thing does not exist, and simply lacking belief in it's existence.
In many cases, atheists will say "That God does not exist",
not because they choose to do so, but because, from the description
of the God, it cannot exist due to contradictory attributes.
In the same way that a square circle cannot (and therefore does not)
exist, a God defined as (for example) all-knowing, yet cannot see into
the future, cannot and does not exist because the definition is self-contradictory.
If you describe your God with self-contradicting attributes which make
it logically impossible, then we may safely say that such a thing does
not exist as described. This is not faith - this is reason."
You seem to be missing your own point here. Your "square circle" analogy is flawed from the beginning. "Square" and "circle" are manmade definitions. God, by man's definition, is not definitive. You cannot confine God into the narrow understanding of men. I also don't believe anyone said that God does not know the future. That would imply that He does not know his own plan, and that would be a silly assumption.
As to the "square circle" analogy, is not a square just points on a circle. If you have the set points that make the square, then lines drawn to each point well necessarily have the atrributes of the square, (equal lenghths and angles). Taken further, wherever there is a circle there is a square, and wherever there is a square, there is a circle. It seems that this a better analogy for a belief in God. The square doesn't exist without the circle, and we don't exist without God. No contradiction.
Your unicorn analogy is just childish. I could never prove the nonexistence of a unicorn to a unicorn believer. You could never prove the nonexistence of God. Of course, you have your definitions of faith mixed up. There is faith, and then there is Faith. The capatlized one only comes from God, my faith in the existence or nonexistence of unicorns is irrevelant.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
Yes, you were, Uber, but don't let that stop you. :)
October 13, 2008 - 11:30 ET by Mike BrattonLet's respond point at a time, shall we?
"There is a big difference between positively believing that a thing does not exist, and simply lacking belief in it's existence. In many cases, atheists will say 'That God does not exist,' not because they choose to do so, but because, from the description of the God, it cannot exist due to contradictory attributes."
No, by definition, atheism--as you've noted yourself--is lack of belief. "No God for me," as it were. Nevertheless, let's continue to watch you paint.
"In the same way that a square circle cannot (and therefore does not) exist, a God defined as (for example) all-knowing, yet cannot see into the future, cannot and does not exist because the definition is self-contradictory."
So far, you're haven't seen that corner behind you as you paint the floor. But go on.
"If you describe your God with self-contradicting attributes which make it logically impossible, then we may safely say that such a thing does not exist as described. This is not faith - this is reason."
Not in the slightest. First off, God has defined Himself in Scripture. Secondly, the existing Biblical definition of God is not self-contradictory. Unless that was a typo earlier, the Bible attributes to God omniscience which is both spatial and temporal in nature.
"If someone asked you about unicorns, would you say 'I believe there are no unicorns", or would it be more honest to say "I do not believe in unicorns'? These are two different answers. Nobody disbelieves in unicorns purely as a matter of personal faith."
You confuse, for whatever reason, opinion and faith. Based on the available evidence, there are no such things as unicorns; should unicorns be found to be a real, legitimate species of animal, nothing about its existence would provoke me to pledge my life to unicorns, to invest in a salvific relationship wtih unicorns, and to desire to share with others the benefits of following unicorns.
And you'll pardon me if I edit the inflammatory "big G" from the next references to pagan gods.
"Again, apply the same reasoning to the gods of other religions. Example : if you are a Christian, do you believe the Hindu god Ganesh does not exist? Or do you not believe in Ganesh?"
Ganesha (rather than the inaccurate "Ganesh") does not exist. Beyond the shadow of any doubt or peradventure. Any opinion of Ganesha is irrelevant. He is a figment, a fiction, though he is a good reminder for Republicans not to let their party preference get out of hand.
"If you believe that unicorns do not exist, then may we say that you are a member of the 'No unicorns' religion? Is it a matter of faith that unicorns do not exist? Can we come along to your non-unicorn church with you tomorrow?"
There exists, Uber, no impact that depends on the existence (or lack) of unicorns. Here, your analogy crumbles under its own weight.
"If you are a Christian, do you believe Ganesh does not exist? Why, then you must be a devout follower of the 'No Ganesh' faith!"
And it's now flatter than the proverbial crepe.
Ganesha, factually, does not exist. There is no belief required. And his existence is not a matter of contention, as you so adroitly illustrate. Pascal did not observe that there is a "Ganesha-shaped vacuum" in each of us.
"Do you see where this is going?"
Yes. Nowhere.
"If someone is not believing in your God is a faith, then you not believing
in other gods is an equal faith. How many Christians do you know who
would say they do not believe in other gods as a matter of faith?"
You need an exact number?
All right then: All of us. Down to the last believer.
However, you are more than a bit mistaken in attempting to define lack of belief in other gods as "a matter of faith." It is a consequence of faith, not a defining factor. We are Christians because of our belief that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God and God the Son. Refusing to believe in human-constructed deities is a consequence of our relationship with Christ, and not a driving force to that relationship.
"If atheism with respect to your deity is a religion, then your atheism with respect to other deities is also a religion."
And there you are. In a corner, with paint surrounding you.
Atheism is the perverted notion of rejecting the existence and authority of God, preferring a self-centered, narcissistic worldview.
"How does atheism differ from religion and faith? No belief in...God, prayers, church, temples, holy books, scripture, priests, religious authorities/ leaders, the supernatural which include angels and devils, miracles, afterlife, holy wars, heaven/hell, lifestyle restrictions(dress, diet, marriage, etc.), supernatural origins of the universe and/or humans, the soul, murderous fundamentalist extremists, street preachers, regular ceremonies/acts of worship, sin, blasphemy, we are God's chosen people...etc. What don't you get?"
Sorta drifted at the end, didn't you? One of the fundamentals of Christianity, Uber, is , well, not murdering people. Which means if you're a really fundamentalist-type Christian, as I am, you really think murdering people is always wrong.
"I don't need saving nor would I espouse any such thing on anyone."
You are wrong in your opinion.
"As for you being a Christian...shouldn't you practice quietly and in the privacy of your own closet without anyone ever knowing since it is written in the Bible?"
I always smile when those of an non-Christian bent think they're really, really putting a move on us by referencing a Scripture. (My favorite example of that is found in Matthew 4, but I digress.) The passage you reference refers to prayer, not to the faith as a whole. In point of fact, we're commanded to go into all the world. You might have noticed we've been doing that for a couple thousand years now.
"It's supposedly between you and your God...that's it. No need for you to judge others..."
Are you not the one doing the judging, Uber? What we are doing is letting you know what God says about you, and that's the beginning and the end of it.
And that paint won't be dry for awhile, unfortunately. Looks as though you have quite a wait.
To be on topic, it is endlessly fascinating to see that when human-constructed religions are attacked, violence tends to be the result. However, when those of us who are Christians are attacked, violence is hoped for, but pretty much doesn't materialize.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
Scripture written by...?
October 13, 2008 - 15:01 ET byMikebrat,
...relying on man made constructs destroys your argument. You probably didn't realize this point as you were typing. From old comments and fragments of discussions on this website, it seems there were pretty lively conversations. It seems it all got shut down and people were kicked off this site for their thoughts. Incredible to see this type of reaction in modern times...I scratch my head wondering, "Why in God's name this type of thing could happen in the US of A?". So, Mike, it looks like there's a lot of questions still not answered...in a short time, I showed simple reasonable questions with a few examples for understanding. The dimensionality of a square circle was quite amusing...from the one dimensional or non-dimensional point to the three dimensional cylinder. A two dimensional square circle does not exist. You cannot construct it. Many here try to shoot down a logical factual statement without realizing the absurdity of their own statements. Reread what you and others have said through the eyes of other religions or an atheist view and you may see your own contradictions on display for all to see. You're a theist. What do you call someone who is opposite?
Ubercon
Is making fun of my name really the best retort you have?
October 13, 2008 - 17:20 ET by Mike BrattonWow, that's disappointing.
You have no answers, yet you chastize others for finding them. And to be blunt, I'd be surprised if you seriously wondered anything "in God's name."
To correct you, no, I'm not a theist. Theism is a generalized acknowledgement that there is a Supreme Being of some sort, somewhere, somehow. It's as damning to be a theist as it is to be an atheist.
Christianity is not an acknowledgment, it's a relationship. There's a difference.
Oh, and to have a little fun with your supposedly marvelous example, why is a square circle impossible to construct?
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
Mike
October 13, 2008 - 17:31 ET by cocodrieI think it's time to shake the dust from your feet, I did. Besides he always heads for the roundhouse where we can't corner him.
Noted.
October 13, 2008 - 17:33 ET by Mike BrattonI'm just so optimistic, though.
--Mike
www.thebrattonreport...
I do defend them, to a point
October 12, 2008 - 13:22 ET by CobraManI do defend them, to a point. I'll defend their right to speak against the things that offend them, but I do NOT defend anyone who feels it necessary to KILL, INJURE, or THREATEN other people because a perceived offence.
Obama: My job is above my pay grade
Hmmm...
October 12, 2008 - 13:37 ET byCobra,
As long as we stay within our comfort zone of today's news and current affairs, correct? History displays a human propensity for violence towards offensive thoughts and ideas by other humans who do not share in the same view.
Ubercon
Haven't you been listening
October 10, 2008 - 23:03 ET by DavidRHaven't you been listening to the media? Obama is the new messiah! Just look at all the things they have in common:
• Jesus was a community organizer
• Obama is a community organizer
• Jesus destroyed the economy of the moneylenders because they didn't respect his beliefs . . .
OMG David!!!
October 10, 2008 - 23:35 ET by TheSterWhat an analogy!!! You are SPOT ON!!!
WOW!!
Now...all we have to wait for is Judas (Rev. Wright).....Ohhh LOOK!!! His UFO arrived...Heeeeeeeerrrrrsss.....JERRY!!!
Let's see what happens in the MSM on Monday!!!
Don't forget!! Hannity is going to interview Corsi...LOOK FOR IT!!!
Ster.
Worry not...McCain will
October 10, 2008 - 23:48 ET by bigtimerWorry not...McCain will apologize for whatever is said...bus engine warming up....
I have never witnessed a man destroy time and time again any gains he made, not through his own efforts...but by others who are on his side...(well, yeah, except for the Senate and the dems who he loved...they don't count)...no he had to go and do it again today at a Town Hall Meeting...
He never quits...he shows his true colors.. I am sick of me feeling which enemy is worse...
I can't nor will I vote for either...I have bent all I can...no more.
We will survive...but I won't be stuck in the eye anymore.
Period.
I know I am in the minority...I really don't care.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
bt, I am just waiting for McPork to apologize to Obama...
October 11, 2008 - 00:05 ET by R D Helm...for running against him in the first place.
Forked, we are. :-O
-Dave
If this nation is to be saved, it will be libertarian principles that save it.
You got to know
October 11, 2008 - 00:20 ET by general companyThat he is only trying to neutralize the msm about his functions. BTW this is fairly important. I realize the fine edge here as well, but he get hammered either way, including your article BT. It was written to put off his supporters, it was from the ap.
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
GC
October 11, 2008 - 01:54 ET by RESTLESS 1Did you notice the part in the article where it said "...has LOOSE ties with terrorist Bill Ayers..."? The whole tone of the article just rubbed me the wrong way. Of course, it is AP, so no surprise.
I don't have a problem with McCain trying to tone down the "obama is an arab" crap. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. There are plenty of other reasons to be against him.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
I know Restless
October 11, 2008 - 02:15 ET by general companyI dont have an answer, but McCain is now being treated as a racist?
He needs to stump about Obama's record and what his community looks like. It is in shambles and McCain needs to talk about it. Let Obama's own deeds hang him. Other then that, I am at a loss? One thing for sure, you me and every other conservitive needs to get out on the streets and talk about things. I took the wife out to eat tonight, we talked politics with other folks (about 10 of them) for 2 hours. We convinced a few to, but I am afraid this racism BS will undo all of my work. It is fun for me, I am very respectful, and do not lie. I ask questions. Lot is learned by questions.
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Howdy Dave... After
October 11, 2008 - 00:21 ET by bigtimerHowdy Dave...
After today..he may as well of bent and kissed his arse with a halo around his head and Obama's as he did it..
...he made me physically sick.
He kicked so many of us in the teeth today...
Well, for me, it is the last time.
No more.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
Mornin' bt. Yeah, I have seen the vid about ten times now.
October 11, 2008 - 00:30 ET by R D HelmLOL-The "mad" guy should replace McPork on the ticket immediately.
At least he recognizes that the "socialists" are about to take over the country.
I am not sure McCain even recognizes the danger we are in.
-Dave
If this nation is to be saved, it will be libertarian principles that save it.
Dave... are we talking
October 11, 2008 - 00:34 ET by bigtimerDave...
are we talking about the same video...where he all but is in love with Obama?
Today? LOL..Well I guess it is yesterday now...he capitulated to the msm and their demands he knock off using the terrorist/Ayers type of campaigning.
He was at the Town Hall meeting and he got booed...is this the same instance you are talking about?
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
bt, my bad. But it makes no difference. McCain is a wimp.
October 11, 2008 - 00:43 ET by R D HelmPeriod.
Everybody likes to say that if Obama cannot face his critics, how can he face Putin?
Hell, apparently McCain can't even face the conservatives in his own party! Putin would probably send him diving under the nearest table!
-Dave
If this nation is to be saved, it will be libertarian principles that save it.
Dave... Not to disagree
October 11, 2008 - 01:06 ET by bigtimerDave...
Not to disagree purposely with you...but it does make a huge difference what McCain said and did today..
Palin gets him gains...he erases it...even when they are side by side in these Town Hall Meetings...he goes solo...he f#cks it up....
Gawd help us with what has happened tonight with the sharks in the water for Palin with the announcement fom Ak. and the findings...I can just hear the mealy-mouthed SOB my friend.
Btw...I warned about this with Palin way before anybody knew who Palin was this may happen...ask FS...he knows I did.
Matters not about what you believe about the guilt or innocence...matters what the msm can do with it...and they are...big time....and they will not stop/
Well..if I wasn't so lazy I suppose I could look all this up...but I am too lazy.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
We share frustration
October 11, 2008 - 01:14 ET by general companyWe have to be smarter, use the energy against them. It can be done, but will it? McCain cannot be accused succsefully of being a racist, that will doom him no matter what. The msm is so currupt, the Rupubs so chikenshit, that there is no recourse for this. How? We really need answers, soon.
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
I hate to say it
October 11, 2008 - 00:58 ET by general companyBut he has to do some thing, the msm, Obama, and anyone else with a voice are complaining that his rally's are nothing more then racist coventions. Obama has out flanked us, using our own anger. He must put poor policy and Obama on the same track. McCain must show how Obama's leadership has NOT benifited anyone but Obama, he must talk records. He must ask about the records that Obama refuses to release. He must be calm and specific, pointing out Obama's faults. Currently having the msm complaining about him the way they are is going to finish McCain. He gets no good pub, and we have know way of helping him out either. The msm, has decided that they want to be socialist, why? I havent a clue, maybe the would rather be TOLD what to write?
Their is no enforcment of the law of truth, without it, we fight from behind!!!!
"Television is a freak show" Bernie Goldberg
Make that a minority of two
October 11, 2008 - 00:26 ET by fitzfongMake that a minority of two (at least). I'm with you, bigtimer. Instead of trying to breathe life into that premature corpse, McLame, the RNC should have expended its energy going after the real opportunity...to use the wildly unpopular Reid and Pelosi to get some of those first-term "Blue Dog" Democrats defeated...so that we could get back Congress and prevent Pinko-bama (or McLame, for that matter) from doing too much more damage.
"Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it." -Ronald Reagan
fitzfong.blogspot.com
Oh gosh fitz...thank
October 11, 2008 - 00:43 ET by bigtimerOh gosh fitz...thank you...what a big sigh of relief somebody else knows what I am feeling and talking about....
I want to weep at times...I have really bent all I can in the first place...and he does this AGAIN...
I cannot take it anymore.
He erases any gains by his a$$-kissing ways..
He has always been this way, I wished people would understand what a RINO he is...
I am fearful of them both...but not fearful enough to be guilted into voting one way or the other.
No more.
I'm done.
"America isn't the problem...America is the solution." ~ Rush Limbaugh
I'm on that team, too
October 11, 2008 - 09:02 ET by motherbeltI'm on that team, too BT!
My immediate thought when I read that "you don't have to be scared of him as President" was of my father, who would always say of his Boston Bruins, when they would blow a lead...
They can't stand prosperity!
DavidR, welcome to NB. And dayem, I feel like I know you.
October 11, 2008 - 00:02 ET by R D HelmLOL, I'll explain that somewhere on down the road. Way on down the road, actually. :-)
Geez, its like I am seeing a reflection, or something.
-Dave
If this nation is to be saved, it will be libertarian principles that save it.
Dave,
October 11, 2008 - 00:10 ET by RESTLESS 1I didn't know you had a twin on NB. I'll be damned!!!
And DavidR, welcome.
"This
liberal would be all about socialize -- uh, uh, would be about
basically taking over and the government running all of your companies."-Maxine Waters 2008
LOL.
October 11, 2008 - 00:22 ET by R D Helm-Dave
If this nation is to be saved, it will be libertarian principles that save it.
You would think he would be more appreciative.
October 11, 2008 - 00:06 ET by JWFSeth MacFarlane was late for a plane on Sep 11, 2001. He just missed boarding one of the planes that was flown into the twin towers.
You would think he would be more critical of the religion that nearly killed him rather than the benign one that has killed no one for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years.
But alas for he has succombed to that horrible brain disease, BDS.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Brent...Just for the record...
October 11, 2008 - 03:10 ET by TheSterPlease read the very first post...That was me agreeing with you and giving another example of Media Bias.
Just for the record.
Ster.
Mr. TheSter, I hear ya.
October 11, 2008 - 13:24 ET by JWFAlways good to hear from another South Park Conservative.
Sincerely,
a Veteran of a 1000 psychic wars.
Pretty gutless Seth. If you want to prove you have balls...
October 11, 2008 - 08:49 ET by JohnMcGrew…do an episode like this with Mohammad. See how long you live.
I guess that’s the problem. While we Christians “cleave to our guns and bibles”, they know that we do little else when the media elites take these kinds of shots. Our enemies take more direct action, and over the last several years we’ve seen the results; a media that continues to insult and ridicule Christianity while taking a hands-off approach to Islam.
The lesson taken from this? Terrorism works.
Late reply to an earlier comment
October 11, 2008 - 09:59 ET by muh-oonBelief that Jesus Christ is your only salvation is not dangerous, it is the gospel. I don't find it dangerous for another religion to claim they are the only true religion. Dangerous is torturing and killing or otherwise using force on those who don't agree with your belief. Only a crazy person would call today's Christians as bad as today's radical Muslims.
You people just don't get
October 11, 2008 - 19:52 ET by Carl KolchakYou people just don't get it. Don't you know you're supposed to worship Gore and the Globabl Warming crowd and never question them. A good idea for Newsbusted would be "Global Warming 1984 Style". The main character could work at the Ministry of Truth and alter any documents, photos, or newsreels from the past that might reveal past instances of warm temperatures from the past, or anything a Globabl Warming person might have said that turned out not to be true. All those references will be erased, and replaced with new documents which prove Global Warming must be believed and you must do everything Gore and the Global Warming crew tell you. Any old hot records must be deleted from history, so each year the new high for the day will be the record. Each prior year must be deleted, so you will constantly believe that we have only started getting hotter since Gore and company tell you so. Any incorrect statement from the past by Gore or Company will be altered. Remember you must believe also that Global Warming is now causing Global Cooling, so if there is some colder weather you must believe that it is caused by Global Warming.
Young children will join the Young Spies and learn about Global Warming and report any parents that aren't green enough. Those parents will be vaporized or taken away to forced labor camps.
Telescreens will be in all homes, and any person that isn't thinking or acting Green will be viewed by the Telescreen and taken to the Ministry of Love.
The Thought Police will deal with any person or persons not adhering to the strict laws that must be obeyed by Gore and the Global Warming crowd.
The main character could
October 12, 2008 - 13:44 ET by Jack BauerWhich beings us full circle because Orwell modelled the MoT on the BBC; and 60 years later teh BBC is a major propagandist for Gore as it worships at the Church of Global Warming!